Chuck Shute Podcast
In depth interviews with musicians, comedians, authors, actors, and more! Guests on the show include David Duchovny, Billy Bob Thornton, Mark Normand, Dee Snider, Ann Wilson, Tony Horton, Don Dokken, Jack Carr and many more.
Chuck Shute Podcast
Alan Niven (GnR, Great White) Discusses Crazy Tales in His New Book "Sound N' Fury"
Alan Niven discusses his experiences as a manager and producer, particularly with Guns N' Roses and Great White. He highlights the challenges of managing Axel Rose's erratic behavior and the impact of losing key members like Izzy Stradlin. Niven emphasizes the importance of maintaining anonymity and the emotional toll of fame. He reflects on the band's decision to release two single albums instead of a double album, citing economic and creative reasons. Niven also touches on the band's struggles with substance abuse and the significance of maintaining a cohesive band dynamic.
0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:21 - Night Train & Drinking
0:00:58 - Alan's Many Roles in the Music Industry
0:04:15 - Guns 'N Roses, Axl, Songwriting & Emotion
0:09:00 - GnR, Izzy, Axl, Fame, Anonymity & Happiness
0:19:55 - When Axl Didn't Want to Perform
0:26:07 - If Alan Stayed On, Izzy Leaving & Axl's Grudges
0:34:35 - Izzy's Whereabouts and Slash's 50s
0:38:30 - Original GnR United, Axl Psychology & Beta
0:43:40 - Sweet Child O' Mine Video & Erin Everly
0:45:20 - Transitioning into the 90s with GnR
0:47:52 - Pressure from David Geffen
0:51:05 - Use Your Illusion Albums & Songs
0:57:15 - Memories, Memorabilia, Happiness & Success
1:00:10 - Sound 'n Fury & Wrapping Up
1:02:02 - Outro
Sound N Fury book for sale:
https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Fury-Rock-Roll-Stories/dp/1770419942
Chuck Shute link tree:
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
Heavy stars, rock and rolling through the cool guitars shops got the questions digging so sharp, feeling back layers hitting the heart.
Alan Niven:Night Train. Have you ever drunk it? No,
Chuck Shute:but yeah, I've heard that was what the song was based on, that they were all drinking this, like, horrible liquor. It was like, what, like a wine cooler kind of thing or something. What is
Unknown:it? It's disgusting. And when they run out of jet fuel, they go up to the local deli and get some nitrogen to get the plane in the air. It's awful.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, did you ever drink it with those guys back in the day?
Unknown:Oh, good God, no. I have, I have some degree of self preservation.
Chuck Shute:So it sounds like after reading your book, listening to some interviews and also other not. I don't know if I've ever had a manager on, but I've had producers on, and it feels like managers and producers kind of similar role. You're kind of like an adult babysitter, are you not? Some of the times?
Unknown:Well, for accuracy, my name is in producer lists as well, because I produced all the successful Great White records and worked with a number of other people, including the utterly fabulous and magical Clarence Clemens. God rest his beautiful, beautiful soul. I love that man, so it depends for the what perspective you're looking from, if you're looking from the organized perspective of the industry on Sunset Boulevard, we have our managers, we have our producers. We have our managers that are also producers, like the guy who was with ZZ Top, whose name I should remember, but since I'm old and dilapidated, I forgive myself for forgetting his name. But there are some of us who there are managers who are 1030 to 430 in the afternoon, and there are some of us who take take on the function as part of a way of life, rather than an occupation. And for me, music was a way of life. So producer, manager, manager, composer. I've done sales, I've done marketing. I had a radio show on W, I n z in Miami, in for a year when somebody looks at me and says, You've done it all. Hard pressed to say otherwise. You know that all the functions of music, music world, to some degree or another, have been been experienced of but I think way of life is a better way of describing it than babysitter.
Chuck Shute:Well, that's just one role maybe would that be about? Because I just, you know, reading the book, that's what it sounded like with Guns and Roses and Jack Russell doing mushrooms and talking to a cactus and stuff, and you're kind of having to reel him in and get him back to reality.
Unknown:Yeah. Well, that's looking after a big baby at that point and having to cancel a tour, which was disastrous. But my criteria was, I'd rather lose a tour than a singer, and the condition he's in at the moment he needs supervision and he needs to get cleaner. And if that means we lose the tour, that means we lose the tour, because I will not lose a person.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, no, that's rough. So yeah, you speak about composing, obviously, with great white, you co wrote all the biggest hits that they wrote, other than the covers that they did. How come you never co wrote with Guns and Roses? Did they just not ask for help? Or was there songs that you guys wrote that didn't make the album? Or
Unknown:when you have Izzy, you don't need anybody. And for me, Izzy is the primary writer in that band that said Axel could write a good lyric. Axel could figure things out on a piano. Axel could sit on his bed with a guitar and play you a song and say, What do you think do? And stupidly, you say, okay, because he's just played you one in a million. And in that moment, Oh, I'm getting goosebumps, remembering it now, in that moment, sitting on the bed with the guitar playing that song, he was that scared person in New York with somebody getting in his face and going, you're gonna die. And he was right then and there, a truly, genuine artistic representation of the moment of himself. So of course, I say, Yeah, that's amazing. You really captured me with that song. And of course, you know, once it gets out there, it's Oh, he's a homophobe. He's this, he's that. But to me, in that moment when I endorsed it, he was of the moment he was describing. And for me, that is genuinely artistic.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, no, I think he does, does such a good job of capturing emotion. And I know I mean people who or people who don't know. I mean, he's got, he's had a rough childhood, but he was able to, I feel like, take those feelings and emotions and put them into music where so many other people would just, you know, they'd be homeless on the streets, drug addict.
Unknown:Well, I mean, you know, broad brush stroke here, where do all the best Where does all the best material come from? And all the best material is usually based in the blues, misery, bad and bad experiences, bad emotions. And that's where all the great songs come from. All the happy songs are pop and are made by Swedish little girls with big boots on going, hello, Mamma mia, here I go again. I mean, you know, you get my point. All the, all the greatest stuff comes from pain. And the expression of pain an axle. That voice, I mean, that is the voice of an angry, working class middle American being That's the voice of an outlaw running across the Arizona desert that and that's the voice of the individual, and that's that's basically what I bought into, was he and GNR Stand for the value of each and every soul, including Urchins from under the street. Now, Axel stands for the worth of himself to the nth degree, but that's another issue. But as the band goes and you know, basically, I signed on for a band, I signed a contract with five individuals, collectively known as I wasn't working for one or the other, or the other or the other. And if you've read the book, it's obviously evident that my strongest relationship was with Izzy. But then we were born exactly 10 years apart. There's got to be something in that. I mean, we could probably get a gypsy to sit down and turn cards and look into a crystal ball and say, born 10 years apart. Well, of course, you guys hadn't had an empathy together.
Chuck Shute:Yeah. What happened to Izzy? Because I made a video on my channel, and it was very popular. Very popular, just trying to track him down and see, you know, where he last kind of left us, you know, because he made, him made some solo music, and I know you were managing him for that. So some of the beginning of the solo music, but then it kind of tailor, tailored off, and then he didn't rejoin the band for the reunion. And I'm just so fascinated by that guy. I find him so mysterious and interesting and just such a brilliant songwriter. I would just love this. He's like a dream guest for me to have, for sure,
Unknown:yes, yes, yes, yes, and no, he won't do it.
Chuck Shute:No, of course he won't. Yeah, yeah, no, but I'm just saying if Axel would be too but, though, but is he especially, because I nobody's really I've never seen a long form interview with him like I think he'd be really interesting just as somebody to pick his brain, and if he if they could get him to talk. I know Rachel bowling told me when they toured with them that none of the band members could get him to talk, but Rachel could get him to open up about dirt bikes or something.
Unknown:Yeah, I. He likes dirt bikes. He likes riding dirt bikes in Lafayette, Indiana with his school friends. That's fun for him, no pressure, no expectations, no demands. There is no there is no preparation whatsoever for the onslaught of fame such as Guns and Roses experience. There's no preparation for that just suddenly, yeah in it. And the suddenness for me, for example, was I was in a Lincoln Town Car in Manhattan and heading down to Eighth Street because I was going to electric radioland studios, and I had smash sitting in the back with me, and we know that there were people who had spotted him and Were starting to run after the car that, for me was the moment when I went, Oh, shit, things have changed. And of course, we get to Electric Lady land. He stays in the car. I get to the door. Electric Lady land, press the buttons, get the door open. Once the doors open, he can come out of the car and zip into the studio and not get grabbed. And we're looking at each other and going, Oh, fuck, our world's changed, hasn't it, you know? And this people find out who is famous before the an essay of the Kardashians, and it's all scripted and contrived by Momma, and it's all being put together. If you're in a band and you become famous, you find out about your fame after everybody else, everybody else knows you're famous before you do, you just wake up to the fact of, why are people staring at me while I'm trying to get a packet of Marlboro reds in in the convenience store? You know, this guy's not talking to me quite same way as he used to talk to me, deference, ingratiation, relationship. Relationships get obscured and clouded by trying to figure out what somebody wants, whether it's just to be in the presence of or maybe you can fund me doing this, or so on and so forth, it all changes overnight, and you're the last person to realize it. You know, you get some signs. You come home from the office and the wife is there, steaming and pissed off. What's up, honey? When are all these people in leather jackets going to stop banging on the door asking if the manager of Guns and Roses. Lives here. I was married to a, you know, European, as you can tell. I mean, you know, you get your little signs and cues. Things are a little different. There's a reason why a lot of people end up buying houses behind walls,
Chuck Shute:and you tried to avoid that, right? Because you didn't want people to take your picture, you didn't do interviews, you didn't want a piece of that.
Unknown:No, I mean, fuck. I mean not that smart, but I was smart enough to realize a couple of things, that once you lose your anonymity, you've lost your anonymity, and there are certain things about that that are uncomfortable. And there was also the fact of, if people, if you're over exposed, then you're going to start to start with a bit of mystique. You start listening, losing mystique. You become familiar. Once you become overly familiar, people don't take you as seriously anymore, you know. So you say you want to, you want to back off. Where did we start this question then, oh yeah, Axel shitty childhood. Do you know what's worse? What, after a shitty childhood, he has to live the rest of his life as Axel fucking rose. Now think about this for a minute. When you wake up in the morning, I guarantee the first thought on your mind is not necessarily, am I leaving my house today, but when your axle rose and you're waking up in the morning, that's the first thing you're going to think about. If I'm leaving the house today, then I'm out there in the world that thinks own it owns me, and I have to be Axel all day long, and I can't just relax and take off the persona of the performer until I get. Back through my front door and sink into the safety of my sofa. Can you imagine that slash has to go out there and be slash every fucking day, and I've been with him enough to see where the nerve ends just a little worn. Sometimes you're in a restaurant in the back room and somebody still finds their way in there and wants an autograph, and he's like, Excuse me, I'm sitting with my friends. You know that demand every day is a fucking sentence. Now you and I, we're lucky. You're probably recognized that as much as I am, you know, just enough to be noticed. Aisle 13 in Safeway, someone says, Hello, my wife jokingly says that I'm Safeway famous. But you know, we also have our anonymity, which is our privacy. And for example, when you don't have anonymity, someone will come up to you in the street address you by your first name, stick a hand out to you, and you're in plant mode because you're going, Oh, fuck, I'm about to be rude to somebody because I cannot remember the context in which I met them. Now, you never met them before. They've just seen you on a TV and know your name, but that fleeting second you have that surge of panic through you, through your body, who am I being fucked to? Oh, God, I feel bad. This is somebody I should recognize. No, they just saw you on the telly. You know, anonymity has its value. And of course, when before, before we lose anonymity, a lot of us go through life going, will I be relevant? Will I be even noticed? Will anybody even know that I've been here? Will I just be gone and go from that fear? Well, I'll tell you what. Enjoy it, because when you lose your anonymity, sometimes, you get bodily reactions of tension and fear that you don't necessarily want a part of your life. So you're
Chuck Shute:saying it's better to be because I know, I've met a lot of interviewed, a lot of people were kind of in the middle, right, like they're famous to certain people, you know, like, in certain, you know, if they went to, like, a rock convention, people know them, but if they're at the grocery store, the average person doesn't. So that's maybe kind of a nice happy medium,
Unknown:yeah? Well, that's, that's the sort of happy medium that you and I
Chuck Shute:have. I don't even think I have that
Unknown:happy Well, I'm sure you do. Yeah. I mean, you're on a screen? Sure, sure, all right. And what is being
Chuck Shute:everybody's on a screen these days, though
Unknown:I know good God. And also what is being recorded right now is going out into space and will eventually go where Voyager One and voyage two going
Chuck Shute:in that regard, do you feel like the big guys, Axel and slash and Jack Russell and these big rock stars, were they not happy then, because of that anonymity taken away, that they couldn't leave the house and it was too stressful during their heyday, or Axel and slash now I feel like their heyday has never ended.
Unknown:Um, for Izzy, obviously, because he retreated, would
Chuck Shute:people even still recognize him, because I don't think anyone's really seen him hardly in the last 1520, years,
Unknown:I would say that he he's clawed back a lot of anonymity that he's not necessarily easy to to recognize, but obviously he retreated from it. But it's like anything else, all right, you got a gorgeous girlfriend, okay? Go to a party and you love being with your gorgeous girlfriend. Well, just call her a girlfriend, not a wife. You know, just the relationship is budding, and then you notice that other guys are noticing your wife or your girlfriend, rather, and then you start to feel uncomfortable. It's like anything else you'll recognize. There are moments when you walk into a restaurant and you get given a really good table, and they fawn over you and tell you how wonderful you are and look after you really well. Oh, it's good to be famous. Okay, you walk out to go to get your car and some dark shadow with a hoodie over his face goes, you got a watch that I want give me a watch, and flicks out a knife. Now, it's not so good to be famous, and at that restaurant, it's like anything else in life. There are moments when it's good, and there are moments when you go, Yeah, fuck it,
Chuck Shute:yeah. Well, in your book, you talk about, you know, there was struggles sometimes to get Axel to perform. In fact, sometimes he. Didn't like the other thing was a show in Phoenix. So when he was late or he didn't want to perform, what, what was he typically doing? I know you talked about wanting me to go get the cops to gab, to get him. Was he? Was he sleeping? Was he just watching TV? Was he? Was he drunk or high? Or was it just anything other than performing,
Unknown:not drunk and high? And if I had to sweep a broad brush across to try and get an impression of the continuous moments, I would say, avoiding. I don't perform on stage. I won't I don't like it. I love being in the studio, but I don't like being on a stage. Now, if you're a guitar player, you guitar player?
Chuck Shute:No. I mean, I took lessons when I was in high school, and, you know, a couple of years in, I quickly realized I could not compete with these legends. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna give up. That's why I have so much respect for guitar players, because I realize how hard it
Unknown:is. Oh, I have only empathy for you, for me. It started with hearing Jimi Hendrix and going, why fucking bother? I mean, why fucking bother, yeah, Jimmy, I will. I
Chuck Shute:tried to play the wind cries, Mary. I could, I could get some of those. That one's a little bit easier to play. But some of the notes you just, and it doesn't sound like Jimmy, even if you're
Unknown:playing the right notes. Oh, it's huge freaking hands. I mean, you know the way he played. Where were we going with this? Get me back on the rails here.
Chuck Shute:Just like, well, how Axel, wouldn't you send guitar players avoidance
Unknown:and Theresa and I asked if you played guitar, and thanks to the you have is that you can understand when I say, if you're playing guitar, there is something between you and the audience. You have actually something material against your body into which you can put your looks and your concentration, because you have to, okay, if you're a singer, all you can do is look out at that room full of faces. There is nothing between you and them, you are emotionally and psychologically Stark, staring naked. Now, I had a duality of mind. On the one hand, I wanted, for example, Great White, to go out on stage and be on and deliver every single night they went out there. And the longest, the longest tour we had. The joke was, it's not a real tour unless you've had two birthdays, okay, that's being out there four or five nights a week for over a year, okay, that's a lot of gigs, and my mental assessment was, if everybody has a bad night, I still want the level of performance to be such that the punters who leave go, it was worth buying the ticket. So there was a lot of drilling and rehearsal and repetition to be able to be able to ensure that if everybody was fatigued and nobody was feeling it that night, it still was of a standard. And the punters would go, we weren't gypped tonight. They were good right now, if you establish that as your grounds, when one or two or three or God bless them, if all of them have a good night, then the punters are going away going that was fucking amazing. They were awesome tonight. So that was the area I was working within. But the thing I found odd to contemplate within being someone responsible. For making sure me that happened was this thought, How the fuck do you invest yourself in a particular emotion, in a particular song? Night after night? There's an absurdity to it. There's no way as a human being, that you can get to that emotion in that song in that same way, night after night after night. But that's the magic that you try and pull off, and you pull it off through repetition and through rehearsing and through learning to act you. But I've got Axel who is a ruler, he's not an actor, and he's sitting there going, I've got to go and sing these songs tonight. I don't feel it. I don't have the confidence in myself that I can even half pull it off. This is a ridiculous thing that I'm doing. Why did I sign up for this? I don't want to do it. I'm going to stay in my hotel room. Point of fact, I'm going to lock the door to my condominium. I can totally understand that. Problem is, it's not how the system functions. You commit to do gigs. You commit to promoters. You want to go out there, you commit to yourself that you want to buy a big old mansion in Malibu. Well, you got to go out there and do it
Chuck Shute:right, and you were good at wrangling him in even when he didn't want to do it. So do you think that if you hadn't left in 91 I think it was or 90 and you had stayed on, do you think that they could have made more records, because it took, I mean, at the punk album and then Chinese Democracy, which was only one original band member left. I mean, do you think if you had stayed on, they would have kept going, because you were able to, kind of, this is, make them disciplined.
Unknown:You answer that question, there's only one answer there. Chuck.
Chuck Shute:It makes you wonder, right? Because it's like, if you hadn't, if you weren't there, then maybe even the user illusion records don't happen or or maybe they happen way later. Maybe they come out in 96 or something. Who knows?
Unknown:Who knows? I you know the answer to that, but I can base it on something rather than just my ego. And what I base it on is this, if I'd still been there, Izzy would still have been there, he wouldn't have left. And if we had Izzy, Izzy was the one who I always relied on for input, for contributing to a decision is he was the one who had the best sense of what the band was and could be losing Izzy is where it all goes off the rails. And I have to say that was the dumbest, stupidest, most moronic thing that Michelle Anthony and Doug Goldstein could have done was lose Izzy, because you've lost your center and core. He is the cool hot heart of raging, boiling Guns and Roses. Soul, if you lose Izzy, you got a disaster on your hand. You've lost your band. And how those geniuses managed to lose him within three months of me going, I mean, do you not wake up in the morning go Alan and Izzy were close. We need to make sure Izzy's on side and he's doing well, and make sure our relationship with Izzy is what it should be. No, they just Izzy, because they don't understand his significance and what happens. He goes and we get, what a rose solo record, and that's it in 30 years.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, and didn't you? You said, you said something to the book about how there was an attempt to bring Izzy back at some point.
Unknown:Yeah, there was, and you were a part of that. No, no, no, no, no, absolutely not.
Chuck Shute:So that was after you had, it was the other management, but they didn't reach out to you to help or anything. No, no, no, no. I mean, should have, though, maybe,
Unknown:yeah, maybe, you know, but Axel. Axel is the master of the garage. He keeps notebooks full of perceived slides.
THEME SONG:And I read that that was crazy.
Unknown:I know it is crazy. You know, leave it alone. Let it go. Life's not perfect. There's going to be some bruising and some bumps here and there. Let them go and look for the positives. I keep my sanity Chuck by keeping in touch with what I call small gratitudes. I have a little a little thing I did, ceremony, whatever you want to call it, that I do for myself that is an acknowledgement of a small gratitude. And I'll tell you how small I can go to. Fridge. Open the fridge door, and the first gratitude I have is that the fridge is exactly the same as when I closed the door and when I had a house full of children and wives and friends and musicians. That was never the case. Every time I opened the fridge door, it was like, Oh, fuck. The locusts have been here nothing, alright, so that's the first small grant. Second, small gratitude is my favorite drink. Is a mix between mango tea and mango juice. And I take a small drink of that, and I close my eyes, and I say, thank you three times, to higher power to myself, to whomever. That's my appreciation. I like it. It makes my body feel good. I love the taste in my mouth. I appreciate it, because there were long periods of time when I'd go through life, and my sense of appreciation was minimal because I was so stressed, and I wasn't going, I like this. This is good. I enjoy that. Didn't get enough of that, you know, and that's probably where is he was at. He wanted to get closer to appreciating what he could do, going surfing, riding his mountain bikes, getting in a tour bus and driving to Florida. Yeah, go is you don't have to be a part of the machine. There's no rule or law that says you must. But I will come back to this. Losing Izzy was the dumbest thing those people could do. Michelle Anthony, Doug, Goldstein, Richard Feldstein, all those people who were important around the band were idiots to losing 30 years of creativity
Chuck Shute:lost. But do you think there was anything that they could have said or done that would have brought him back? Because it seemed like he was just kind of done at that point, because he had gotten sober, and then he realizes, like, oh, like, I don't want to put up with all this bullshit when I'm when I'm fucked up. I can deal with, you know, people being fucked up in the drama and the late nights and an axel being laid on stage. But then when he got sober, he's like, Oh, this is a shit show. I gotta get the hell out of here. Do you think that they would have pushed to get the rest of the band sober sooner? Because that eventually did happen.
Unknown:There was, there was a lack of intelligent oversight on the touring entity from 1991 on, and a lot of money got wasted, and there was a lot of indulgence, and they all thought it was cool and fun, though, really it wasn't. It was indulgent in the waste. If you could have gotten Izzy through that period, the period when Duff's body said, If you don't stop drinking, you're gonna die, when Slash's body said, If you don't stop doing coke. You're gonna die. You know, he hasn't. He's got a pacemaker. He can't fuck around. All right, there's his sign. His spleen explodes. You get a pacemaker. All right, time to stop. If Izzy could have lost until then, then is he'd be there today. There is only one criteria. You can go online and you can find Izzy saying, I'm not a part of it because they won't share the loot. I did see that? Yeah, yeah. So it comes down to him not getting an equal share of a band that was built on his style and his sensibilities,
Chuck Shute:but so he's got enough loot him and Adler. Do they just have enough from that, those first, uh, albums, that they can just basically live off of that for the rest of their life?
Unknown:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You go to Vegas and you win the jackpot, the game becomes, figure out who your girlfriends and wives are. Don't go crazy on big, expensive motor cars. Put some money into some real estate, and adjust your social circle so as it's not crazy. That's the state of play at that point you have got enough to last you through your days. Hell of an achievement. Well done. Easy.
Chuck Shute:Yeah. I mean, he's just so fascinating that he just, I mean, do you think he's still writing music just by himself and just playing in his garage or his studio. So home studio somewhere, just for fun.
Unknown:10 years ago, I decided to say that I'm dead. Now I'm not so sure there was somebody. Who had a birthday, and they were turning 49 and they called me up and they had a fucking meltdown. Slash, why are you having a meltdown about your 49th birthday? Because my next one is my 50th. Do you realize what that looks like to me? Me and I said, simmer down, little fella and listen up. If I could have back one decade to relive, it would be my 50s. Really, yes, because that was the best balance of body, mind, spirit experience that I've had that was the best living cocktail that I've experienced is my 50s.
Chuck Shute:That's how I feel about my 40s, honestly, like I'm loving my favorite time of my life.
Unknown:Wait until you get to your 50s, so you tell me, it
Chuck Shute:gets better. I love it. I love to hear it all right.
Unknown:Now, if you want to question that, go back and look at the 50s of Slash's life and what's occurred in that period of time. It has been far and away the most productive, materially period of his life, and probably the most settled, emotionally familiar. This is his 50s. Is his best now, when I was in my 40s, I went to a rock and roll doctor and Rodeo Drive to get a physical, and at the end of them doing all their tests, they said, You're you're in remarkably good shape, considering what you're involved in. In fact, you're going to be in this shape until you're about 60. Stupidly, I did not take that and leave the room. I had to be a dumb ass and go, Well, what happens at 60? And the doctor looked at me and said, well, buddy, it's all downhill from there. Oh shit, yeah. So here's the thing, being old, ancient and in the way and beyond my 60s, I haven't played guitar properly in 10 years. I don't listen to music as much as I do. However, if I'm in an actual working creative situation, I find that the spirit has not aged, and I can connect, and I can be with it, and I can contribute to it, and I'm on it. But in terms of my daily habits, does is he write songs now in his late 60s, maybe not. Daddy still rides his bike.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, I guess there's just that part of me that's just as a fan. I'd love to see Izzy just come back with GNR and bring in Steven Adler just for a couple songs, at least, even if it's not a full tour or even a full album, like, give, give me, like, three new songs that they sit down together. And I think that would just be a really cool cherry on top to their amazing career. And just, you know, again, just, you know, it's for fun. I mean, it's not forget the money. They all got enough money. They should just come out and write a few songs for the fans, for themselves too. It'd be fun.
Unknown:What's the question, Chuck, I don't know. I don't
Chuck Shute:have a cry. Just wanted to say that. I don't know. I just just my What are your thoughts on that? Do you think that's realistic?
Unknown:I'll tell you what the question is, Chuck. The question is, why didn't you do it for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? That was the moment, right? They should have done it then, and it would have been the perfect mic drop, good fucking night. Yeah, whatever they performed, just to hear Axel say that and then drop the mic on a table full of celebrities who have spent ridiculous money to be sitting where they're sitting. Just drop the mic and say, We're done, see ya.
Chuck Shute:But Axel didn't want, he, he doesn't want to do what people want him to do. He wants it to be his idea. You know what? I mean? Like, it was like a thing like, Oh, you guys need to get together. And he's like, No, I don't. I can do whatever the fuck I want. And that's and then, you know, he reunites with the band later. It's like he and he wanted it to be his idea. I understand that. I get that he's, he's a rebel. That's, I think that's why I like him so much. Well,
Unknown:are we a rebel with a cause or not?
Chuck Shute:I don't know, but it's so entertaining.
Unknown:Either way, are we psychologist Chuck?
Chuck Shute:I love psychology. I love the psychology of Axl. Rose is fascinating to me. Like I said, he'd be a dream guest. I think we'd have amazing conversation.
Unknown:Okay, well, let me ask you one question. Okay, put it on the list to ask Axel when he comes on so on. Axel. You never had a successful marriage. Do you regret not being a father?
Chuck Shute:Yeah, I wonder. I mean, I feel like if that's something he wanted to do, he could still do it. Now, if you I mean, sure, there's a lot of women who would you know he could impregnate that would want to have his baby. For sure.
Unknown:Oh, I'm sure, but it hasn't happened. What I find interesting is that beta came with a family. Who will say that again. What I find interesting is that beta came with a family. So she brought him what was obviously a good enough, if not a perfect family that he'd been deprived of. And, you know, I look at I look at bands, and, you know, when we generalize, we always go off, you know, too far this way or too far that way, in implication. But I think there's a valid perception to bands, and that the majority of the people in a band come from a dysfunctional childhood. The majority of the people in a band are looking to create their perfect family, and of course, when they're young, bloods indivisible against the world. It works, but as soon as money and girlfriends and wives and mothers and gardeners come along, it starts to fall apart, and all that dysfunction from childhood gets unpacked and a band falls apart. I think beta provided over the family. Whatever else I'm going to say about about beta. And a lot of people go, what the fuck you know? How did she become the manager of somebody of that creative status? My observation, is, look at the gig. She's got him to whatever she's doing in providing a family. I tip my cap, they just got him to a lot of gigs, and let's see. Irving Azoff couldn't handle him. Doc McGee couldn't handle him. Merc couldn't handle him. I mean, you know, I obviously had an entertaining moment with Doc McGee when we were on some podcast together, and I said, Doc, do tell me what was it like to manage Guns and Roses. I and only we would smile. You know, what did you get done? Okay, now we're looking back at 30 years ago. Who the hell thought people would care about something 30 years later? But on the other hand, I can say wasn't perfect, but I was the only one who would work with them, and I made some good decisions, because they're living off the product of that relationship that five or six years today, I did my Job, and one day, Axel you might have the manners to actually say thank you. For the very first time.
Chuck Shute:Think about that. Yeah, one of the things that you did, thank you, thank you. Well, yeah. And one of the things that you did, and speaking of the relationships and this, then, 30 years in the past, I thought this was really interesting. I never knew this. I don't know if this was out in the public, but you talk about there's an alternate version of the video for sweet child of mine with his then girlfriend, Aaron Everly, in bondage. And your and your call was to cut this, don't bury this. Is that? Is there any copy of that for the public to find? Or is that just like been destroyed? Now,
Unknown:what the original? Yeah, I don't know what happened to the original. The last I heard the original was both Aaron everlise lawyers and axles lawyers were desperately trying to find every single fucking copy of right, because they were in a divorce proceedings, and Aaron wanted to use it against Axel, but you can go online right now and you can see the updated version, which has even more of Aaron in it than the original one from 30 years ago. You know, sometimes you think, what are you thinking, dude? Is that any way for people to think that you treat a sweet child all right, hang her from the rafters and whoop her with a paddle and oh, by the way, this now makes a brilliant video with some of the best live footage. We have a shot in the cat house that night. It makes the video about you and Aaron and your fetish, rather than being a video about the band. Let's try and keep things about the band. So no, I buried it.
Chuck Shute:Yeah. What do you think? Because that was such a different time in the 80s, and then obviously things transitioned in the 90s. Like, what, putting on your manager? How, like, if you had taken on one of those, you know, quote, unquote, like a hair band in like 91 like, let's say, like a warrant or poison or and I know you're going to say, I would never take that job, but let's say somebody paid you 10 million to take it. What would your direction have been
Unknown:up right there? David Geffen might put me with Jon. Bon Jovi, that's a lot of money. Yeah, my answer was, you fucking kidding me. I work with artists, not entertainers.
Chuck Shute:So you turn that down, yes. And so you just felt like that. You just would not. You could even for a shitload of money. You there's nothing you could do to because that was a tough transition for bands of the 80s to go into the 90s and compete against grunge. I just wondered if you had some sort of strategy that you would like with guns and roses. I mean, even they could have been pigeon holes as a quote, unquote 80s band. How would you have navigated those waters in 9293 94 as the you know, because they, they started to kind of, that's, I think that's also part of the reason they kind of took a hiatus.
Unknown:There are no brilliant or original ideas. And I think for anybody in that circumstance, that period of time, should look at a little old band from Texas who looked at their environment at a certain point and went, look at the band. Look at where we're at. Look at what's around us. Yo, I'm gonna get my car go through. Drive after you in two, three years. And they went away, they took a hiatus, and then when they came back, oh my god, they taken it to another level. But that's part of what taking a hiatus does again. It gives you time to absorb, think things through, evaluate, try things out without them being under pressure. I mean, you know, one of the biggest problems you have is a record company going more, more more. We want more now. We want to sell now. Give us another one. Now, just like the other one. All right, you get that. I was under incredible pressure from David Geffen. Where's my record? Walking into his offices one day, he's coming down the staircase, the Queen coming down his staircase. David liked to intimidate. He'd get up new grill this close. And he comes up, and he puts his face right in mine. I bought why ball? And he goes, When am I going to get my fucking record? And my reply, eyeball to eyeball is when it's fucking ready, David. And he just stands there laser beams coming out of his eyes going through the back of your skull, and then he turns around and walks out the door. And you sit and think about it for a moment, and he's going, I think his thought process was this, in 1986 we were going to drop this band without recording anything. This weird fucking tea bag comes along. And now all I'm concerned about is how fast I'm going to get a multi million seller. I'll leave him in place for now.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, that was a crazy part of the book where you said you renegotiated a deal with him. That sounds like, that's like, that's some rough negotiating. Like, yeah, if he gets in your face, like, that's crazy.
Unknown:Oh, more than getting in your face, you go up to his office and he's got his entire senior executive standing on parade in the bay window of his room, and he's telling you to go and sit on a little stool in front of the fireplace. And you're sitting there thinking, Oh, fuck, what's going on here? And you realize that the whole thing is an intimidation tactic, because, because the minute he says, We will renegotiate, he immediately says, What do you want in the contract? And he's trying to beat me down and intimidate me right then and there. And that's not a question that I'm going to field. That's a question that goes to the legal representative of the band, not to me. I. Comment to the legal representative when he comes back to me and tells me where the offers are at or when the negotiations at, I don't sit there with a piece of paper and go, Well, you know, give me four more points on the record or something. I need to be out of that so as the lawyers can put on the pressure, but the one thing I got from him was his commitment, and his commitment to me was they would get the best contract on the label. That's all I needed to hear. Done. Okay? Now it's up to the lawyers done, and my reward for that is to get fired by Mr. Rose. Appreciated. I'm tempted to say what we have here is failure to appreciate.
Chuck Shute:That's a good that's good. That's a good little reference to the illusions album, which I love those albums, by the way. So you were around for the making of that. It was just like after they released. Then that's when you left.
Unknown:I was around for the first mixes to be done, and the first mixes were abandoned because they were lifeless. Now, because this has become a topic, or once, are you sitting comfortably? Yes, use your illusions. We start with double King jive, because there's a lot of that going around. And the next time you play that lend an ear to the tone and the aggression of the guitar solo, that guitar so Solo says to me, we're back. Bucha, okay, from there, we go into back off bitch, which at every level everybody had been thinking, whether the bitch is your girlfriend or David Geffen or the fans who are going, when are we gonna get a new record? Back off bitch? Then we go dust and bones, which is my magic song of the whole collection, yesterday's civil war. You could be mine a little bit of humor to put those together. Locomotive, one of his better lyrics, November, rain and dead horse, because trying to follow appetite with the consciousness of trying to follow appetite is beating a dead fucking horse. But there's here, there's your album. So you would
Chuck Shute:have made it just one album. Oh yeah,
Unknown:I bought him. Can you imagine? Lying in bed for two, three years thinking, How the fuck do we follow this up? Oh, it's at 3 million, oh it's at 5 million, oh it's at 8 million, and it's still selling. That's crashing. How are you supposed to follow a record that performs an absolute way I know that Axel thought, hmm, one way we can do it is to overwhelm them, to put out a double album, to have more material there than they can absorb and deal with, and then we can go out on the road and play the best songs and build a following to the record. It's pretty good thinking on roses Park. Okay, my thinking on the double album was No, no, no, no, no, no. If we put a double album out, we are going to get fucking crucified by the critics, on top of which look at the economies of a double album. It's a very expensive item to throw into the grocery bill at the end of the week. Okay, what effects we do something that no one's ever done not going to do a double album. We're going to do two single albums, and, oh, by the way, let me get a pencil and paper and show the economics of doing two separate albums, as opposed to a double album. Band makes an awful lot more money on single albums than they double Okay, in the economics, and no one's ever done it before, guns and fucking roses. Who would have the nerve to put out two single albums in one go? We would, of course, Chuck, you know that there's no such thing as an original idea. There are only the ideas that you store in your memory. And when the right occasion comes up, you bring out that memory and goes, Oh, that could apply to us. Because, you know what I was thinking? I was thinking United Kingdom electric, Ladyland, Jimi Hendrix, they put out a double album, and they put out the double album as two separate albums. It had been done before. But of course, none of my contemporaries, my band, certainly didn't know that, and nobody in America noted that they thought it was just Guns N Roses being Guns N Roses. Actually it was the name in aura Hendrix, stealing from his idea.
Chuck Shute:I didn't know that either. That is interesting. That's cool. Yeah. Well, some of the songs, so the songs that you wouldn't put on the album like one of them, which I probably am the only one that likes a song, but I love the song. Get in the ring, and you talk about the critics, and he bashes all the critics in there. So did the critics fuck What's that?
Unknown:Fuck all that? That's bullshit that you have conversation in the bar. You don't write a fucking song about ridiculous
Chuck Shute:they were. So the critics did bother. That's what I find so fascinating. Because if I sold 15 million records, whatever appetite sold at the time, I wouldn't give a fuck what anyone says about me. But they were still bothered by critics.
Unknown:Explain to me, Chuck why you have the brilliance to write Civil War War. You have the idiocy to write right next door to hell, which is about him beating his neighbor over the head with a wine bottle, and I find myself Stark staring naked in my kitchen at three o'clock in the morning, phoning around everybody I knew with a safe trying to find enough money to bail him out before the sheriff's office send him down to general pop, because in General pop, he's going to be fucking me and now tear him apart.
Chuck Shute:I love that song too. Though. I love, I love it all. I love all the B sides, unreleased stuff. It's all great.
Unknown:Yeah. I mean, you know when you when you're close to stuff, you really don't want to I mean, I don't have any golden platinum records, none. I used to have a bar full of them. I used to have about 70 or 80 in storage. I had a whole bunch in the house. They're gone. Got rid of them. I don't want to live in a mausoleum of a museum. What I have to remind me, I have a photograph of Izzy and Keith and Ronnie Wood playing together in Atlantic City. I have that on my wall that says, that says something to me. Go on platinum records. What wasn't stolen? I just gave away. I got addicted to how excited people would get when I'd give them one.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, didn't you sell the Didn't you have an MTV Movie Award or music video award. You sold that or something. I read an article about that that's kind of
Unknown:interesting. Given away, all gone. I mean, you know, that was five or six years of my life, not my entire life, not the sum total of my relationships, not the sum total of my interest, a moment of incredible event, an activity, a moment of extraordinary privilege, because at the end of my days, I'm not sitting there Going well, I wonder what would it be like if we'd been able to tour the world. Well, I wonder what it would have been like if we did number one, adorable. Been there, done it. Threw the t shirt away. Who cares? You?
Chuck Shute:Yeah. So you're saying there's better things than the success.
Unknown:Oh, equal and better, better than equals. Yeah, that's awesome to hear. Yeah. You know what really matters to you at the end of the day? Who can you trust? Who can you call if you fall over? Who can you call if you if your vehicle breaks down? Who can you spend some time with? Because you need to spend some time. All arrest Chuck is just sound and fucking. Fury. It's a stupid tale told
THEME SONG:by an idiot.
Chuck Shute:Well, I know you got to get going the book. The book is out June 24 I've read it. The entire thing. People can get it. It's a it's an easy read because it's just so interesting. It's just a collection of all these different stories. And there's more than Guns and Roses. There's great white stuff. There's other things that you did. There's this Rosie Lopez girl that sounded amazing. Why that didn't work out. A lot of really interesting stuff. Rocky was, sorry, Roxy, not Rosie.
Unknown:Yeah, Rocky was fucking amazing. Yeah, I was
Chuck Shute:trying to fight. Is there a copy of that? Someone's trying to find it on YouTube or so I couldn't
Unknown:find it. Get me an email through Jamie, give Jamie or email around to me. At the very least, I can email you a couple of tracks and you can,
Chuck Shute:okay, cool. Are you still in Prescott, Arizona? Because I'm in Scotts, I'm only like, 990 minutes from you or something. Are you kidding? Yeah? Are you still in Prescott? Fuck yes. Oh, that's good. I always like whenever I go there, I look around to see if I see you, but I've never seen you there.
Unknown:Well, as an alternative dude, send me an email. Tell me you're coming up and we'll have lunch or something. Go and go and have a beer or something. Okay, extraordinary. Born in New Zealand, raised in England, lived in Sweden, lived in Miami, lived in LA. Somehow, I've spent almost a third of my life in Prescott. And every time I'm away from it for more than three days, I get two, three. I want to get back. Interesting.
Chuck Shute:Yeah, I do love Prescott. It's nice. Yeah,
Unknown:there's something about the environment that I am very content in, that I have never been content in any other part of
Chuck Shute:the world. Wow. Okay, well, thank you so much for doing this. I'll get this episode. I know you got another one to get to. So
Unknown:Chuck, it's been a pleasure do the thing. And next time you're up in Prescott, let's hang
Chuck Shute:out. Okay? Sounds good. See ya. See
THEME SONG:ya. Bye, bye.
