JT Follows JC Returns to the Show to Discuss Conspiracies, Aliens, Christianity & More!

J.T. and Chuck Shute discuss the distribution challenges of J.T.'s movie "Ancient Angels" on Vimeo and Amazon Prime. They delve into conspiracy theories about aliens, UFOs, and interdimensional beings, referencing movies like "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" and "Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull." They explore the idea that advanced civilizations like Tataria might have been buried under the ground, citing examples like Gobekli Tepe and Lake Mead. They also touch on the role of religion, particularly Christianity, in society, emphasizing love and non-judgment. They critique the media's role in shaping public perception and express skepticism towards government narratives.

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:20 - Ancient Angels
0:02:28 -  The Connection Between Aliens & Religious Beliefs
0:06:55 - Aliens & UFOs & Government Disclosure
0:14:35 - Catholic Church & Covering Things Up
0:18:10 - Tat-aria Lost Civilization & Things Buried Underground
0:29:30 - America History & Vikings
0:35:00 - Deceptive Media & Trusting People in Power
0:39:55 - Christians & Perceptions
0:52:30 - God Is Just & Opening Hearts
0:57:25 - Calling Out Corruption & Motive of Super Wealthy
1:13:35 - Sinister Influences in Music & Black Magic
1:23:00 - Drugs & Alcohol & Spiritual Realm
1:34:00 - Olympics Opening Ceremony
1:47:58 - DEI, Money & Marketing
1:58:20 - People Getting Dumber & A.I.
2:01:10 - Technology, Nature & Spiritual Experiences
2:06:55 - Promotions
2:08:28 - Outro

JT Follows JC website
http://www.jtfollowsjc.com/

Chuck Shute link tree:
https://linktr.ee/chuck_shute

Transcript

THEME SONG: 0:04

Down the heavy stars, rocking, rolling through the cool guitars

Chuck Shute: 0:09

shops. Got the questions digging so sharp, peeling back layers, hitting the heart, yeah, so good to have you back. I just kept getting hits on that interview. We did a, I don't was it one or two years ago? And then the clip from that, the toma Gilgamesh people, oh, yeah, commenting on that. It's crazy.

J.T.: 0:31

Yeah, no, that was good, yeah, that was, that was probably right about a year ago. I think that was when, you know, we dropped ancient angels, yeah, and so, so I want to say that it was probably September, October. Had to be right around then, because I know that's when we released it. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 0:46

that was a cool movie. There was a couple people that are still commenting occasionally that they have trouble getting it or something. Is it still on Vimeo? Is it still, yeah,

J.T.: 0:55

it is. It's, it's kind of a mess. I mean, I don't know. I guess it's, I guess when you distribute stuff like that, they don't want to make it easy for you to, you know. I mean, I don't know. Obviously that's a conspiratorial side of me saying it's weird that we have so many problems with this. It doesn't seem like, in this day and age, if like multimedia, that you should be hard to sell a movie. You know, kind of mostly yourself. But, you know, we probably need to talk to more people who do it. I know that Brian was trying to get it released on Amazon Prime.

Chuck Shute: 1:28

Yeah, I was gonna say, I was gonna suggest that, because it's definitely would be above average film on Amazon. There's some crap on Amazon Prime. You'd be way better than a lot of stuff on there.

J.T.: 1:38

Well, Brian is funny because one of the reasons we did the movie is that he did a he did a movie about reptilians. It's on Amazon Prime, yeah, oh,

Chuck Shute: 1:49

wow. I gotta check that out. What's that one called?

J.T.: 1:53

It might just be called reptilians. I'm not sure exactly what the title was, but the funny part about it was, here's a little spoilers. Is when Brian was telling me about that. He's like, he's he had this, there's this guy as a production company, and he basically just wants to get some movies made. And the guy's like, Hey, I got this movie I want you to be in. It's about reptilians. And Brian's like, I don't believe in reptilians. He's like, I don't care. Just, just, like, do it anyways. And of course, I think most of it's about kind of Nephilim and demons and stuff. So, like, that's basically what he you know, it's similar to ancient angels in that way, that, well,

Chuck Shute: 2:28

that's what I think a lot of this stuff is kind of connected, you know, whether you believe in this or you believe like, because I know people that are like, Oh, I don't believe in aliens, that's ridiculous. But, oh, I believe in ghosts, yeah. And then you're like, wow, like, and there's people like, oh, I believe in ghosts. I believe in ghosts, in and aliens or, like, or I believe in this. But I feel like there's some of the stuff, like, with the aliens and the UFOs, there's people that that think that is, like, some sort of interdimensional thing, like, and some people think it's biblical, it's angels or something, right?

J.T.: 2:57

Well, right? That's, that's the interesting thing I I've, I've noticed that, and I think a lot of people, especially the in, you know, who dig, you know, dig into the truth and try to figure things out. I do remember, like, obviously growing up, and then the 80s and all the ET stuff and alien stuff and Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Star Wars, and then, you know, so that we were always taught, like aliens came from outer space. But then it was until recently that I think maybe, I'm not sure what the main movie was that talked about, this might have been that stupid Crystal Skull movie with Indiana Jones. Oh, that was bad. That was so bad. But they were saying, yeah, they're interdimensional. And I think that was like, it was kind of like, okay, somebody finally shifted that now that's kind of almost more the accepted, you know, like, I don't know, I mean, I don't know how well accepted it is, but I think that's interesting, because obviously, then you have the people who say, Yeah, aliens are not what you think they are. And then, okay, so now you're talking now we're not actually talking past each other. It actually seems like this could, you know, we could be getting the semantics. What is this? You know, I've long said that, that angels basically are aliens, because if they're not from earth, well, then they're extraterrestrial. We don't really know where they're from, but they're not from here. So, I mean, like, by definition, they would be alien to us. And obviously, you know, even the term alien just means they're not from here,

Chuck Shute: 4:21

yeah, and that's similar to, I had this lady on that. Well, actually, I think it was this one, this book about, like, gray aliens and artificial intelligence. And I guess this guy, he actually died, but it's like a girl that did a bunch of research with him, and it's really interesting how they this is the one that. This is the crazy one. It's great aliens in the harvesting of souls, like how they're using people to steal their soul. I don't know it's really it's almost like complex, but it's so interesting. And I feel like some of this stuff could tie into each other, like maybe it's all connected. I don't know, that's my theory. Anyway.

J.T.: 4:58

Oh, definitely. Well, they have the. Uh, I'm sure you probably heard this, but Lester Crowley, he was, like, channeling some kind of demon, and he drew a picture, and he called it lamb, and it looks just like a gray alien, hmm, you never seen that? No, it's kind it's kind of had, like, beady eyes, but everything, it had the big, giant head, and everything, it looks just like an, you know, basically, like a Spielberg, you know, it's kind of funny, if you think about it, like, how do we even get like, kind of the gray alien stuff in the culture? And if you look at, like, the Spielberg stuff, he's, I think he might be one of the first person who puts that stuff in the movies, like, yeah, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, yeah, and, and so you get this idea of what an alien is. And it's, you know, he's famously said, now we call them Angels and Demons. One day we'll call them something else. And it's like, okay, so now they're gray aliens, but they're, they're trying to harvest souls. What it like? What? Why? Unless something about

Chuck Shute: 5:55

technology and how they're getting people to be more disconnected through the technology. And so it's almost like there's this other realm that is controlled by technology. I mean, I'd have to, like, you'd have to, like, read the book to and I still, I'm still confused by the whole thing, but I feel like there is, you know, because there's people that say, like, okay, like we're born, we're we die, and then that's it, and that's just, that's life, okay? And then that's a theory. And then there's a people that say, you know Christians like yourself, you believe you you know you're you're born, and then you die, and then you go to heaven. And then there's other people that are saying, like, you know, more like, there's this other reality that's like an ultimate reality. And so I don't know if there's some sort of connection between all this stuff. I mean, there's so many different theories. I just like to learn about all of it and then try to form formulate my own opinion. But I don't, I don't. I never say, like, Oh, I know this is the way. I know, you know, I don't. I just try to learn as much as I can and the different theories, and then I try to connect the dots between some of the stuff. And obviously, there's probably a lot of stuff that's just complete BS that people are making up, or could be the government putting out misinformed because it's weird that the government would say, like, Oh no, there's, there's no aliens. And all of a sudden, recently, now they're saying, Well, yes, there is. And then conspiracy theorists are saying, we don't believe you now, then we don't believe it. Yeah, well, well,

J.T.: 7:18

I think they didn't mean conspiracy theorists, you know have been had a pretty good track record lately. So I think that right, it's,

Chuck Shute: 7:24

it's what conspiracies like that. I

J.T.: 7:26

mean, the main, the main, true conspiracy, is, do not trust anything the government tells you like, be very skeptical of the things that are saying. The real question would be like that, you have somebody who lies to you all the time. Oh, no, no, there's no such thing. Oh, there's no such thing. They like, literally smear people who claim they saw aliens or UFOs and things, and then they just, they're just admitted from before Congress. Now they have, like, a UFO guy at the Pentagon who's saying that, literally, there could be a mothership in our galaxy, and that's the origin of the UFOs. They have another guy goes in front of Congress saying they found non human biologics in some crash. UFO, okay, so you just said that they weren't real, just like five minutes ago, and now you're saying this. So yes, the people like me would say, all right, why now you know. So what do you like? What are you really trying to gain by telling us now? Because, you know, it's funny. And I, and I thought about doing a series about this a while back, and of course, I probably won't now, but it was a good idea, if anybody's listening, this would be good idea for a video series is going back into like, if now that they admit certain UFO and, you know, UFOs are real. You know, again, UFO just means unidentified flying object. It does not mean aliens from outer space, so we don't really know what it was, but now that they acknowledge it, wouldn't it be kind of interesting to go back and reinvis revisit some of the most famous encounters and saying, Okay, with this knowledge, this stuff could be real, like, like, just re examine the stuff based on what we kind of been taught about this stuff. Well, right? Because

Chuck Shute: 9:04

interesting if they say that it's because one of the theories is that it's, it's actually either US government or another country's government, military technology, that it's like ships or something. But if that's the case, why have we been seeing stuff since the 50s? Like, wouldn't it have been revealed at this point?

J.T.: 9:25

Well, that's the interesting thing. I actually have you heard of Michael Heizer? No or refresh my memory. He was a theologian, and he was he was actually really good at talking about he talked a lot about the spiritual stuff. He wrote a, his most famous book was called the unseen realm. Anyways, he's really good with, like, the Nephilim Angel stuff, like, he passed away over the past year. But he was, he was really interesting in that kind of, that aspect. But the one thing he actually did a, it's pretty good YouTube video. I probably sent it to you. Probably enjoy it. And it was about, it was, I think it was called. Like aliens and demons, and so he had this fascination with, like, ufology, but he's a Christian guy, and I guess he was saying that, it seemed to him. And I like this theory is he's saying like that. He went to some Roswell anniversary. I think I can't remember what exactly Roswell happened. It was like, was like, in the 40s, like, late 40s, or something like that, the crash,

Chuck Shute: 10:26

yeah, yeah, I've been there. There's a museum for it and stuff, yeah, yeah.

J.T.: 10:30

But there was, I guess it was like, what? Whenever the anniversary was okay, and, and so this reporter was asking them about, like, you know, the the general, or whatever, you know, the public statement was that these, were, you These were, like, these certain kind of test dummies dropped from this, you know, weather balloon or something like that. And then so the reporter actually came with some receipts, and he was like, hey, but you guys didn't start using those kind of dummies until three years later, or something like that, right? Yeah, that's again, right, yeah. And so then the guy was saying that I forgot what the exact term he used was that there was, like, some kind of, there was something like everybody's memory was wrong. I forgot the way he phrased it, but he was like, saying, like, he asked a question about, like, memory conflation, or some kind of weird term like that. And so he basically was saying, like that, it's everyone's memories wrong, like those things, like the Roswell thing was after that, or something, something really bizarre. And so Michael Heiser was like, what he said was the most insane thing he's ever heard. He said the only thing he could make sense of it was that they wanted to perpetuate the UFO thing and the alien thing. You know, instead of trying to tamp it down, they would rather it be this wild conspiracy. Because if you really think about it, like if I saw if I told you I saw a UFO in front of my house, I mean, maybe people don't think I'm as crazy as they would have, but like, 20 years ago, if I just said, oh gosh, I saw you just flee UFOs out front, and they'd be like, All right, this guy hasn't been taking his medication. But if I said, Hey, I saw this experimental government ship, this jet, you know, I think they got some new high tech stuff over at, you know, the the local base, you know, they it was, they would rather you say it was a UFO, because people would look the other way and like they would dismiss it immediately. But if you start, if you really start poking into things that are real, then they, you know, it's the perfect cover that people say, UFOs, aliens, whatever, and the general public would just say, well, that's not real. So I'm not even, I'm not even going to look into

Chuck Shute: 12:51

it now. Well, yeah, because I know there was that one story about the guy that lived near like an army base, and he accidentally heard them talking about some experimental craft or something. And so they discredit him, and made him think he was crazy, and made it, made him say that it was Aliens, but that really they were messing with him, and they knew that they were like, they knew he could hear in the hear, uh, their conversation. So then they started saying it was Aliens. And then he went to tell people that it was Aliens. And then they put them in, like, the psych ward. It was, like, some have you heard of that story? I can

J.T.: 13:25

know, but, I mean, it makes it lines up with everything I've ever heard, because it's like, I I've started to think about some of that stuff with, like, the MK Ultra stuff and the weird stuff they do to people, yeah. And then you hear about, like, people, you know, during, uh, like alien abductions or whatever, these people lose time, and they've been violated in every which way, and they know it was real, but then obviously nobody believes them. You know, if you really think about it like so what if it was some kind of a three letter agency did something horrible to somebody, did some experiments on them, dropped them in there. They can't remember hardly anything other than this trauma, and the only thing they can make sense of it is like, Oh, it was, I think I was abducted by aliens. Everybody makes a mockery of them. The trauma's real. We don't know exactly what it was, but, you know, immediately people start to think, well, we need to lock them up now, because they're obviously nuts, right? Meanwhile, something really did happen to them. But like I said, it's kind of the perfect cover from for a lot of really devious, nefarious stuff. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 14:30

we don't know, I mean, but it's interesting to think, like, like you said, the conspiracies that are coming true. Like, if you would have told people 20 years ago that the Catholic Church was, you know, hiding this big pedophile scandal. People would have said, Oh, that's a conspiracy. That's crazy. You're crazy. And then obviously it came true, so that that's an and that's, I grew up Catholic, so it's not nothing, not a slight on Catholics. I mean, a lot of my family members are Catholic. They're great people. But in terms of the Catholic. Church and the Vatican, there's something fishy to me. I think it's more than just what else are they hiding, right? I think you even talk about that in your your film, ancient angels, you briefly touched on, they may be covering up some of these relics. And there's this. There's a conspiracy. Again, this is a conspiracy, but there's a conspiracy that the Vatican has some sort of evidence of aliens or UFOs or something in that Vatican basement, which is, like, really fascinating thing to me, and they might not even know where it is. Well,

J.T.: 15:34

you know, you can look, you guys can look this up. I believe it's, it was either 53 or 58 miles worth of bookshelves in their vaulted libraries. I mean, so what? So what's not in there is the real question. Like, well,

Chuck Shute: 15:47

that's what I'm saying. They have to prioritize it so, like, and maybe it's just evidence, like, eyewitness accounts. Like, there's some eyewitness accounts of none seeing a floating orb, you know? And it's like, that's like they just thought, Oh, well, this is nothing, and they just threw it in some file somewhere. And, like, how could you even ever find that again? So they're trying to organize it now, supposedly. But yeah, I mean, they might even be hiding it on purpose. They could just have lost it. Well,

J.T.: 16:14

you know what is interesting about like, the Catholic Church, and I believe it was there. There was a pretty good documentary I saw years ago, and it was called the it was called like the flat earth. No, is that flat Earth? It was the the Hollow Earth, by the fall brothers, by the fourth watch. It was the the film program, and they talked a lot about how the Catholic church over the over the last bunch of centuries, they have put their churches on all out of these ancient ruins, like, you find these, like, really significant sites, and, yeah, I

Chuck Shute: 16:51

think that's what you talked about in the film. And you're, oh, yeah. So there's, yeah, there's

J.T.: 16:54

good examples of it. There's a place in Mexico called Cholula, and the Spanish built this, you know, on the top of, like a mountain. They built this, this church. Well, it wasn't a mountain, it was a pyramid. It's actually, like the biggest pyramid in the whole world. But it's, it's, it's actually covered. It's still covered in, like dirt and stuff. They didn't uncover the whole thing, but then it's got all these tunnels that go down into it, and so the church is on top of it. I mean, so I don't think it's a coincidence that they put it there. I mean, it's like, so they have access to these tunnels. I think it was even in South America, there's a, there's a tunnel system called the Chicana, and they did the same thing. They put their church, like, right over top of where these, these ancient tunnels were.

Chuck Shute: 17:37

That's creepy. It reminds me of the movie from Dunn where they have the bar, and then, like, at the very end, oh yeah, they pan out. And it's like the bar was on this, like giant, like, Mayan temple,

J.T.: 17:49

yeah, just, it's just, just showing you, literally, the top of it. You know, it's crazy, man, I don't I'm sure you've probably seen some of the videos we made when we start talking about the mud flood,

Chuck Shute: 17:58

and about that mud flood. I just watched one of those today, a short clip of that that was really fascinating. I don't know a lot about that.

J.T.: 18:06

Well, that's kind of like gets into this whole tataria Old World. You know, these, these, this conspiracy theory. Basically, there's been a an advanced civilization our recent past that's basically been covered up in in the end of this talks about too. Is it the same thing he's talking about? Well, no, I don't think he talks about this. Because this is like, this is more bonkers. And this is like, you know, there's evidence that it's true, and it's it, but it's the crazier part is like, so Rogan talks more about, like, what we talk about in ancient angels, about how there was whoever built the pyramids, there was this connected, advanced society, and, you know, and they might throw it back like 10,000 years or 12,000 years, you know, you know, kind of like as a Christian, I said that's, that's further than I would push the timeline back anyways, but they kind of push it back to whenever, whoever built those pyramids in Egypt, that was an advanced society that has been likely lost civilization stuff. But tataria is more like no, there was, like a recent one, like the ones who built, kind of all the real stone cathedrals and just magnificent buildings all around the world, where it's like you have this certain kind of Greco room and architecture all over the whole planet. Actually, don't say plan, all over the whole earth. And every older city, there's all these stone buildings with, like, massive columns, big doors, domes, you know, spires, like the cathedrals from like the dark ages just are like, You why are we in off things they did in the Dark Ages? You know, really doesn't. It doesn't really make sense. It doesn't make sense, like in America that there's, like, if you go around to every state capitol building, and they're all as impressive as, like, the, you know, the Capital Building in Washington, DC, you know, sometimes they're smaller than that. There's like, a capital. Building almost identical to ours in Cuba. Okay, so that country, we're told, was always pretty poor. All through South America, there's buildings like that. And so some people would just kind of say, oh, that's Tatari and architecture. Well, tataria is a, basically a a forgotten Empire. They, they ruled somewhere in, you know, northern part of Asia, basically where the Russians are now. Then you look at all of this, well, there's old man, you know, like you look at old maps, there's, there's old maps that show totario. Actually, the funny thing is, if you, if I could show you up here on this thing behind me, it says, cetaria, where, where Russia was. And so a lot of people do, they start to conflate the that empire with all the the, you know, the the advanced architecture around the world. And they say there was this they ruled the whole world, the tatarians and the mud flood basically, kind of ended their reign. And then there was, you know, some kind of Cataclysm, maybe, like, not exactly sure when, maybe the late 18th century, early 19th century, something bad happened, where everything started, like the ground, obviously, somehow the ground swallowed up lots of stuff. Also, is

Chuck Shute: 21:15

that recent, though, yeah, it's

J.T.: 21:18

like, it's like, really recent, like, within, within, yeah, within the last 250 ish years.

Chuck Shute: 21:24

And this is not something that's talked about in the history books or, no,

J.T.: 21:28

I think that's the thing. It's like, you know, I'm sure, for the a person who just heard what I said, and never heard anything like that, where they would say, That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, that's so insane. But when you start to go look into it, there's evidence that there's things buried everywhere, everywhere. It's so funny because I send my buddies, you know, do you know Paul from understanding conspiracy? Paul stobs, hmm, he, he, he just wrote a book called the Nephilim. The the clowns look like Nephilim or Nephilim look like clowns. Okay, I've heard he has this, like, I've heard of that. Yeah, he's, yeah, he's, he's pretty big YouTuber and and my one buddy, alpha talks, and so we kind of talk about very similar things often. And we have a group text thread, and I send them all the time about, you know, hey, some guy in Turkey just starts digging in his garden. He just dug up some kind of Roman ruins, like, under the ground, like, you know, they started trying to do like a subway in Europe, and it's like, Oh, whoops, here's a Roman bath house. Somehow it's under the ground. Like churches are under the ground. And like, so nobody really ever stops to say, how did they get under the ground, you know, like, you think about, um, a good example. This is like, Easter Island, you know, the Moai statues, the weird heads, yeah, well, well, they're not, they're not just heads. They're but they have bodies, but most the bodies have been completely buried, and they're huge. So, like,

Chuck Shute: 22:50

why it's so weird? Because we were like, Why are these weird, like, heads here? But it's like, you're only seeing part of didn't they just recently discover that they were there? Was Yeah,

J.T.: 22:59

yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, like, it's like, they just realized that, like, 15 to 20 feet of those things are under the ground, you know, like, you go in, so like, Roman, go

Chuck Shute: 23:10

under and bear it on. Like buried, go under underneath them and see what's buried under there.

J.T.: 23:16

Well, I think the crazier part is the fact that, so that's just one example. I mean, that's, that's my that's an example to say this is a worldwide phenomenon like the Gobekli Tepe, that's like an ancient site. And we're, we're told that they, I guess it's what we're told is that the oldest, like megalithic structure in the world, this temple system in Turkey, and it's completely 100% buried. Well, they tell us that somebody buried their own temple. I don't buy that one for one second. It makes no sense. It's not like it was a big mound. It's, it's literally flushed with the ground. It's like under the ground, like something buried it. You know, even when they first found the pyramids, the Sphinx was buried up to its head, right? The Sphinx was buried up to said, the pyramids. Only parts of them were sticking up. You know, there's evidence all around the whole world. I think there's a, there's a pretty awesome gate that, I guess was in Iraq, like ancient Babylon, that has like the cherub looking statues with like the big beards and huge gate, 25 feet tall. Picture from it in 1850 where it's like, literally buried all the way 100% okay, and so you go into, like, ancient Turkey. I, you know, this is the thing I talk about a lot, because I, you know, read the Bible a lot, is the the churches from the book of Revelation, all those churches that, you know, everyone thinks is going to happen in the future, all those churches are destroyed. Like, all the, all the cities that those churches were in had to be excavated where you can see, like, there's like, Sardis, Turkey, there's a very famous picture where there's like a 15 foot tall, massive Roman column, and it's literally 100% under the ground. And so that kind of stuff is, is everywhere. Right? And then when it gets really crazy, as you go into, like, modern cities, you know, like cities that we're told are not even that old, and you see lots of evidence that you have these basements that are not really basements. They're like first floors, but they're kind of halfway into the ground, and halfway not in the ground, you know, I'm talking about like, if you ever see, like, you go to a lot of cities, and they'll have windows, they're literally at the ground level, right? They're not basements. But like you have, you have like, stairs, like almost like a brownstone look. You have stairs up to the front door, and then you have the first floor. Well, that's the first floor, and then then the basement is kind of halfway out from the ground. But it's not sometimes you see, like street levels where you have like the building is like here the street goes like this, and then the the Windows start to disappear as as the road goes up, where it looks like there was some kind of dirt, you know, some kind something happened, where this, this dirt, or something engulfed this place, and instead of even digging it out, they just paved over it. So, you know, like, there's

Chuck Shute: 26:06

not a record of this. Or, do you think there, there is and they're covering it up? Or what's the theory? Well,

J.T.: 26:11

I mean, I would say that there has to be some kind of record of it, but, but no, they don't acknowledge it.

Chuck Shute: 26:16

And I'm telling you, why would you why would they not acknowledge it? What would be the theory behind that?

J.T.: 26:21

Well, I mean, so obviously, in the theory of, like, the old world of tataria is like that there was an advanced society that was, was very advanced. Like they even had free energy they could use. They had, there's, there's evidence that some of these buildings had what they call antiquatech domes and spires, and they could, they could harness electromagnetic energy through like the ether, and they did not have to, you know, they didn't have to burn things to get energy.

Chuck Shute: 26:53

Isn't that the theory with some of the purpose of the pyramids? Because we were taught like, Oh, this is just a tomb for the Pharaoh, and it was just elaborate, because they thought this, the Pharaoh's going to the Holy Land or whatever, and so they built this big temple form. But then there's other theories that say, well, the technology, it looks like this, was used, possibly a theory just, I'm not saying it's 100% but there's a theory that it's used to conduct electricity, like you're

J.T.: 27:19

saying, right? Yeah. I mean that is that has made the most sense to me. Like, when you think about like that, some of these, these structures, like that, it's like, it's funny. When they built the Hoover Dam, the the sculptor who put the the weird angels on top of the dam, he compared the Hoover Dam to the great to the Great Pyramids. And I thought it was kind

Chuck Shute: 27:42

of amazing. Yeah, didn't you say I thought I heard you talking about how there's some temple or city or something they built the Hoover Dam on top of well,

J.T.: 27:51

this is crazy. Is that there's like, 90,000 dams in the United States, 90,000 dams. So you think, I mean, I heard that the other day, used for to generate electricity. No, I don't know. I don't think all of them are, I don't know. I don't know what they're all I mean, obviously, there's obviously degrees of them. There's only one Hoover Dam. I don't know if there's anything comparable to that, but yeah, when they created Hoover Dam that created Lake Mead, and when Lake Mead was created, that obviously flooded a giant plane of, you know, just, I mean, like in Nevada, just like, I mean, how huge like Mead is, yeah, and, and I learned this, yeah, when I was doing some research on the Hoover Dam, it said that there was a city under there, under like Mead, that was the ancient Anasazi, which are literally Anasazi just means ancient ones. So the Hopi and the play Pueblo Indians claim to be related to them, but nobody really knows much about them. They're just they lived here, supposedly around 1000 years ago. Well, I think when people think, oh, there's a city submerged, they're probably pictured in their head like mud huts and stuff. But if you go to Lake mead.gov, literally on the thing, it mentions that, yeah, there was a city under there, and they said there's up some of the structures had up to 100 rooms in them. Wow. And so I was like, wait a minute, that that sounds like a real city, like, you know, like 100 rooms. Like, that's, that's really big. So I don't know what it looks like. But, I mean, I guess the point is, like, we'll probably never find out, because it's under the water. So

Chuck Shute: 29:25

you think possibly some of this stuff is on purpose. They're trying to cover it up.

J.T.: 29:30

Yes, yes, that's what I that's what I do. Think, I do think that. I think that the timeline of America doesn't make a lot of sense. I think that the westward expansion and the way big cities were just popped out of the ground so quickly doesn't really make a lot of sense. I mean, you think about it like as Americans, we're taught about our history. So Lewis and Clark didn't go across the Mississippi until the early 1800s and so by 1840 you have like Chicago just starting out. And then. And by the end of the, you know, by 1860 it's like the Chicago we know today, until it burns down and they build

Chuck Shute: 30:05

it again. The Native Americans were here, right? So what did we take some of the stuff that they had already built and they had done, I mean, obviously they didn't build big skyscrapers, but maybe they had some sort of foundation. Well,

J.T.: 30:18

the See, the thing is, that Native American. What does that even mean? Obviously, we have an idea what that means. We think of in our in our brain, like, what does that mean? But what's what I find kind of interesting is the history we've been taught about 1492 Columbus and all that kind of stuff. And like, he's the first Europeans to come over to the new world. But I remember, even when I was in school at the time, the teacher was kind of like with a nod and a wink of saying, yeah, a lot of people think the Vikings actually got here before Columbus. Did you ever heard that? No, I haven't. I did hear that the like, Leif Erikson and stuff like that. Well, and then is there a thing, like, I

Chuck Shute: 30:57

forget what it's called, like, the land bridge theory, or something like, if you take the pieces of the the continents and you put them together, they connect, which is a little suspicious. So it's like they were connected at one point and then something caused them to break apart, right? Or is that conspiracy? I don't know. No. I

J.T.: 31:15

mean, that's the idea of Pangea, or there's, yeah, there's obviously the barren strait between, like, Alaska and Asia. I mean, I think that's stupid. I think that there's people didn't walk from Asia to to North America, and if they did, why would they go down to South America? And they wouldn't settle up? Wouldn't there be a lot more of them here than South America? Why would? Why would South weather was different,

Chuck Shute: 31:38

though, right? Because, like, Yeah, I know. But like, they have their settlements here in Arizona where it's like, 110 and there's, like, there's mud, uh, mud huts and things, or mud, like cities and things. And I'm like, why would anybody settle here? I mean, even parts of Arizona, like Flagstaff that are more cool. But why would you settle in the desert? It doesn't make any sense. Well, I think I wasn't desert.

J.T.: 32:00

Have you ever seen the old maps that showed that California was an island? No, yeah, there's some really crazy old maps that show California is an island, which is interesting because Death Valley is below sea level, you know. So if it kind of makes sense that there it could have been at some point. I just think that what's interesting anyways, but what I was saying about the Vikings is my teachers. I remember saying that like, Oh, yeah. Lot of people believe Leif Erickson got here before Columbus did. And if you look at, like, on a map, if you look at from Northern Europe to the the top part of North America, you could kind of go between Iceland Greenland, you kind of hug the coast, and you could get to North America a lot easier than you could go straight across the Atlantic to like South America, which supposedly Columbus did. So now it's kind of widely accepted the idea the Vikings did get here before, before Columbus did well, yeah, but

Chuck Shute: 33:02

they're saying, okay, so it says he's believed to be the first European to set forth foot in North America, but he landed in present day, Canada, not the United States.

J.T.: 33:12

So what does that mean? Well, Columbus didn't, didn't land in North America either. I mean, the point being is like that. Okay, so now that people say, now that people are willingly acknowledged that the Vikings got here, got here first. So what did they do? Nothing. You know what I mean. So, like, based on what they're saying, of like, they

Chuck Shute: 33:34

do stuff. In Canada, they do stuff. Maybe he made the maple leaf flag, maybe,

J.T.: 33:40

well, I guess the point is, is like that, when you start saying this, like, so how did they just recently discover that this could be true? Because, because, again, it was funny, because it was like, not in the books, but My teacher always kind of, I remember, I remember one certain teachers said, yeah, a lot of people believe this is true. And again, now it's widely accepted that it is true. So why did Were you ever told that Columbus was the first one? Because, again, he didn't even make it to the mainlands of either. I mean, at least first he didn't make it to the mainland South America or North America. So obviously,

Chuck Shute: 34:12

kind of frowned upon, because they were like, pretty, like, bad people, like, I mean, I guess Columbus had his own skeletons in the closet too, but maybe for whatever reason, they people looked at more at him as a good guy. You know how, like, they do that. They do that. Now, in our society with like, leaders, they go, oh, this person is really good and this one's really bad. But I feel like in 100 years, it might flop and flip flop, and then we'll go, oh, actually, this person was a good guy and that person was a bad

J.T.: 34:38

guy. Well. But what's interesting is, like, the timeline they save, like, when they talk about the migration of, like, the Native Americans here, and then they talk about when the Vikings got here, it's actually really close now. Okay, so now, who is the Native Americans? Then you know what I'm saying, like that, what if? What if the Vikings didn't do nothing when they got here? Because, I mean. Yeah, to call them Vikings is almost like, what does that even mean? What we're really saying is Europeans got here before Columbus did. And so we're saying the Europeans got here and they did what, just went back. I mean, that's not really what we're like, why would they spend so much effort to get here without doing anything here? So

Chuck Shute: 35:19

what is the theory behind the cover up. Like, why would they cover this up? Then?

J.T.: 35:23

Well again. So the, the main theory behind the cover up is we live in a society that everything's been monetized. If there was an if there was free energy. Like, obviously the guy who created our school system, you know, the modern school system, John D Rockefeller, he made a he made so much money selling energy, he couldn't have done that if it was free, right, right? So the people who have taken credit for all the Industrial Revolution and all the great things that the men who built America, I remember, there's that History Channel show those people obviously benefited greatly by the history we've been taught. They're credited with all the things. What if it was a lie?

Chuck Shute: 36:09

Wouldn't be the first time that our government has lied to us, that's for sure. I mean, yeah, there's definitely, yeah. I mean, you look at the history, you think about like, we think other countries taint the history and that, oh, no, like North Korea. Oh, that's total BS. We would never do that here. If you watch the news right news, you see daily they twist things and they should edit things deceptively. And, I mean, they're totally crooked, and we can see that right in front of us. What can we not see? What is hidden? That's the stuff that I'm fascinated by. I don't say again, I don't say that. I think it's I know that it's this, or I know that it's that. But to think of all the things that the possibilities, it's really fun to think about what's what are they hiding? What do we not know? What is going to be revealed, and maybe in our lifetime? I mean, there's a lot of things that have been revealed already that I thought I would never hear that news. I mean, the government admitting the in the they don't know what these things are, but there's UFOs out there. There's unidentified flying objects, and they're real. They're not just a speculation and showing seeing the video of it. I mean, again, maybe the video is faked. I don't know, but it's sure, it's fascinating to see that, yeah,

J.T.: 37:19

well, for sure. I mean, I like you were saying that if you can't trust the news, why do you why do you believe you can trust the history books? You know,

Chuck Shute: 37:28

right? Well, and I think it was interesting. I watched this video today, and they were saying, um, God, what was it like? I think the statistic is inflated. It was something. Maybe it was a certain city or region, but they said, like, 40% of kids couldn't read, or whatever. And so that this is another conspiracy. These are, I love conspiracies. They're fun. But this was a conspiracy theory. It might have been, did you post this? Maybe? I don't know how I saw it. But anyways, it was a thing where they said, you know, like, eventually people are not going to be able to read, and so you're just going to have the history. You're going to learn, is what people tell you. And so now you're trusting the government or the school system or whatever, to tell you the right history. And then the other theory that I've heard of, the conspiracy that builds on this is more is like a lot of the things that they're doing now are building it so that they can tell this history, this narrative that they're creating, that these are the good guys and these are the bad guys. And because they're doing things that you're like, why are they doing this? And it's because they're building this narrative for later when they can say, see, this was the good guy and this is the bad guy, and people won't be able to research it, because either they're not going to be able to read, or the government's going to control the internet and the sources of information and everything else that you know, that maybe the truth, maybe flagged as misinformation or disinformation. And so that's a kind of a scary thought,

J.T.: 38:46

well, well, just consider this, that with that kind of thought process, what we're what we're taught from history, is that there was a time where the church became really powerful in Europe, and, like, the Bible was, like, only written in like, Latin, you know, languages people couldn't read, right? And so that gave you had to trust somebody else to Yeah, you could too, yeah, like, you and I can't read the Bible. We need somebody to tell us what it says, right? And if you really think about it in that kind of aspect, it's like, yeah, that's a powerful means of control, right, trust trust me. Would this? It says in here, you know, you're just gonna have to trust me on that. But of course, why would I lie? Because I look at this nice hat I've got on and all these fancy clothes, you know, so if that's the way things were, then it would be naive to believe that things couldn't still be like that in different kinds of ways.

Chuck Shute: 39:41

Isn't that part of the conspiracy against Christianity is that it was, that's why it was created in the first place, was to control people and to have this that where they could, let's say, the Bible, and then they could use it to control people in the way that they wanted to. Well,

J.T.: 39:58

it's but it's interesting. If that's the truth, and why? Why is there so much pushback against people who are Christians, like, about like, the way we live and the way we you know, if you really think about it, like the the the gospel and everything like that, is really a denial of self and in doing for others. It's whatever you want to say, let's just say we're let's just say I was wrong about it, and none of this means anything. If everyone did that, this would be a better place, regardless of what you believe, right? Well, that is interesting. As

Chuck Shute: 40:31

somebody who's a kind of a middle person, I guess I would say, I don't know what you'd call I'm not like an atheist, but I'm not really like a Christian, either, and I grew up Catholic, but I'm not like a practicing Christian, but I can look and see and go, Why are like Christians being so like, I don't maybe persecuted is too strong of a word, but it just seems like they're looked down upon. And it wasn't like that. Even in my lifetime. I feel like in the 80s and 90s, it seemed like everybody was Christian, and if you weren't Christian, you were a bad person. And now it's like things have, like, switched and it's like, if you're Christian, you're a bad person. And the real people, you know, love is love and all this kind of thing. And Christians hate gay people and they're racist. And what other things that they say, like, you know, they just say these things that are in my experience, having Christians on the show, just life experience talking to Christians. Most Christians are like you they're very nice. They're very down to earth. You know, there's a lot of you go to church. It's a lot of like, sweet old ladies, you know? And so, like, it's weird that there's this, like, Christians are bad and they're evil, and I'm just like, what like? I don't understand that. Well, I

J.T.: 41:44

think, I mean, I I feel like I understand it's like, I feel like, if there's if, if the Bible's true, this is what you know God said. This is how Jesus said it would be. They hated me first. And if you think about it like, and here's, here's the interesting part about it is that people are right, that people have used, like religion, which I would say is not the same as Christianity, but, like, they've used religion to try to control people. It was funny. I just some, I had all these people today, and you gotta see the book of you gotta watch the Book of Eli. And I was like, you know? So finally I said, Okay, it's a post apocalyptic movie, Denzel Washington. Yeah. Denzel Washington,

Chuck Shute: 42:23

blind, right? Yeah, yeah.

J.T.: 42:25

And I was like, I thought, I was like, Actually, I didn't like the movie all that much, but I thought it was a really interesting idea. I would say, I feel like they really missed an opportunity, because, in my view, it's like, so if he has this last Bible, he's the good character, and so he's, they're living in, obviously a horrible time. And so I thought, you know, it'd be cool if Denzel Washington was using the Bible to set people free, and then the bad guy, we do know, the bad guy was using the was going to use the Bible to control people. And I thought that's a pretty interesting dichotomy of like that. You have one person who would use it for, you know, like you could use it for both things. And I think if you start to understand it like Jesus is like, he's offering you freedom in like, a bad time, because obviously they're living, you know, especially when he's on Earth, it's it's a rough time. They're under Roman oppression and all those kind of things. But he's offering you things beyond this, like the things you can see and in denial of self will help get you there. And so I just think that's kind of interesting that like when you when you really understand what Jesus is saying, yeah, it's it. Christians are not supposed to be judgmental. They're obviously supposed to love each other. And there's people who obviously twist his words and try to say things, or they try to be real legalistic about how other people are supposed to live. You know, I feel like that from my aspect, like I know that nobody's going to choose Jesus by me being like abrasive and like saying how, how they do everything wrong. I mean, I feel like that. You get them to Jesus and then let him kind of sort it out. And then you obviously, you know, you can help people, guide people here, but that's not, we're not here to to condemn the world. We're here to, you know, help save it. But, yeah, I think that. But to me, if the devil's real and Jesus is real, this is how the world would be, because it's really an attack on him and and that's why it's an attack on us, because it's like, it's kind of like, that you Christians believe this, and it's like, yeah, you know, we believe that because that's what our Bible says. Like, so I'm it's not, it's not my opinion about how things should be, you know? It's like, if we believe this is what God said, and I affirm what God said, Is it, does it make me bad? It's like, you know, I didn't write it, right? I believe it came from God. So you could say that your My belief is misplaced or something, my faith is in the wrong place, but you can't say that I'm bad for believing something. And I think that, to me, just shows you that it is spiritual, because I'm saying God has given you the option to choose him or not. Why do you. Need me to affirm your lifestyle, right? Well, yeah, to me makes it spiritual, right? Because it's attack on me to make you, make me affirm things that I don't believe in. Yeah? It's,

Chuck Shute: 45:12

well, that's, I mean, that was all idea of this country, is that you're supposed to be able to believe in whatever you wanted to believe and and now it seems like it's, it's been, at least, I don't know if it's not illegal to be a Christian, obviously, but, I mean, it's definitely seems to be looked down upon by our media in a lot of circles, just from what I'm this again, I'm an impartial observer. I'm not a Christian, but I I'm friends a lot of Christians. I mean, I'm friends with a lot of people who are not Christian. We have this preacher here, and I think he's just down the street from me, actually, I think, because I'm in Scottsdale, I think he's in Tempe, but he, I mean, he's like, one of these guys that's like, you know, gay people are gonna burn in hell and all this kind of thing and, and I think that rhetoric is a big turnoff to just the average person, you know, whereas then you have the other extreme, where, now there's a lot of churches who are, would you say, like, LGBTQ, plus, yeah, or whatever. And so it's like, how can there be this, like, huge dichotomy? And I don't know what the I don't think telling people that they're gonna burn in hell for whatever, we're all sinners, right? Isn't that what the whole thing was? Well,

J.T.: 46:19

I mean, I would say that. I would say, ultimately, you know, if, if you just believe what the Bible says, like, if you don't have Jesus, you're going to burn in hell. So, like, that's what the Bible says. So it's, it's not about the one sin. I mean, it's kind of like that, if you, you will, we'll all die in our sin without him. And you're like, that's just, that's the biblical truth. Now, so the to pointing out particular sins and saying you're going to burn in hell for them is like, it's kind of redundant. It's kind of like saying like that if you're a liar, you know, if you've lied, you're a liar, and then if you're a liar, we know where liars go. But that's not like, that's not the message. It's like, even like, you go into the basics of like, John 316 is like, you know, those who believe in Jesus said they'll, you know, he, he came and died so we'd have eternal life. And he didn't come into the world to condemn it, but to save it, because he said, because those who don't believe are already condemned. So it's kind of like, if somebody's coming to save you, the message is not you're going to hell. It is interesting. I mean, like, obviously, that's just the biblical truth, though it's like that, that that is what the Bible says. But it's like, again, all sins, the wages of sin. In the Bible says the wages sin or death. So like, that's why, like, I was as I was saying like that. It's not like, I'm telling you to clean up your life and then you can go to heaven. I'm saying like, you need, you need. You would need Jesus first. It's the sick that need a physician. So you need Jesus first, and then let Jesus kind of clear up the stuff in your life that if you want to change, you know, it's like, it's all about, you know, it's like people have to want to change too.

Chuck Shute: 47:52

Because isn't that the whole like, That's what I remember from when I was a kid. I went to the Bible camps and I went to the they called it, I think it was, I don't know what it stand for, but it was like, CCD. It was like a Catholic thing. I forget what the acronym stands for, but yeah, I mean, so we took all these classes and things, and I remember, like, Jesus, like, whole thing was like, wasn't he, like, he was he would take in all the outcasts, like all the lepers and the prostitutes and everything, they would go to him, and he would like, heal the sick and like, but these are people who are, like, cast out of society. And so then that's just interesting that you know, somebody would say, like, well, these people are bad and they're gonna burn in hell. It's like, Well, shouldn't you be welcoming to everybody? But I mean, I guess there's different interpretations of that, so I don't know. I just find it. Well, find it. I think, I think that's something as Christians, I feel like they need to all get on the same page, because it is even the Catholic Church they're saying, didn't one of the Pope say homosexuality is okay now it's not a sin, which it's like, how do you make that change? I don't understand how you can just magically flip that switch.

J.T.: 48:58

Well, you, you are, you are. I can't. I mean, that's, that's the thing. And so you either can the Pope, well, I mean, based on what they say he can, but I mean, I'm not based on what I have said. I'm that's why I'm not a Catholic. I don't I, you know, obviously I'm a Bible believing Christian, so I believe what the Bible says. And it's like, so if that's God's word, yet being able to change God's word, it's like being putting yourself on par with God, right? If God wrote this, who can change it? Well, that's the thing, if it's

Chuck Shute: 49:24

changing, or if it's like interpreting, because society, yeah, and then I know what

J.T.: 49:29

I mean, though it's like, because I think that we live in a day and age when there's my truth and your truth, right? And like, we can shape the world to whatever we want it to be. But if truth came from from God, well, you and I can't change that, because obviously it comes from a higher authority than us. So then the truth has to change us. You know, you have to live based on what the truth is, but people don't want to do that anymore. So it's more comfortable to shape the reality. Oh, well, I don't really think it means that. But, you know, like the. Uh, again, it's, that's the thing. So, yeah, you're right. Jesus came for the the low. He came for the the poor and the poor, in spirit, yeah, he didn't come for the Haughty. And I think that it's kind of like the main reason he's kind of, he's doing that is, like He's forgiving a debt. We all owe a debt to God based on, like I said, sin, wages of sin or death. And so people who are who owe more, are more likely to to admit it. But like, then you have, like, the contrast is that Jesus is going around, and he's dealing with the religious types, the Pharisees, who are not doing all those, those real, big, bad sins, right? Or at least there's they're not. They're claiming they're not doing that in order for them to say, look how good I am, and that person's going to hell. And I'm not, because I don't do what they do. But it's like, but he's saying like that, you guys are like, whitewashed tombs. He's like, you know, you're all clean on the outside, but inside you're full of, like, dirty bones and dead things. It's like, so your your heart is in the wrong place, and so, like, that's what Jesus is coming to say, is like that you're supposed to love each other. That's like, the ultimate kind of rule. You show you, show you love God by loving each other. That doesn't mean you just you, you let you affirm everything. Everyone does. No point. But the point being is like that. That's what the that's what the gospel really is, is giving people a chance. People are a chance, you know. Like, yeah, we're not here to condemn them, you know, we're here to call us in with a sin. Like I said, it's not, it's not up to me, what, what's what's wrong, what's right. I'm telling you what the Bible says if you want to know and you don't want to, and if you don't want to know, like I said, it's the

Chuck Shute: 51:42

stereotype, and that's where Christians get a they get a bad rap is because they think people say that they want to paint this picture of this, like, like I said, there's that preacher that he's like, gay people are gonna burn in hell, and that's what they feel like. Christians have a lot of hate in their heart, which I personally have not seen, as I've seen some of that. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying I feel like that is more rare. The average church goer is more open minded, is like a sweet old lady. You know, these are the like this. There's some of the nicest, kindest people that you'll ever meet. And I just, I'm on board with that. I'm like, you know, maybe we don't agree about everything, and maybe I don't go to church and follow the religion perfectly, but I can get along with that. I can I understand that, like I was raised, it's so weird my dad, I remember, like, in the 80s, I grew up in Seattle, and you remember, like, Ted Bundy, the serial killer, oh yeah, yeah. And I was like, Dude, I hate this guy. He's and my dad would like, correct me, he's like, You shouldn't hate anybody. I was like, what? Like, you don't hate Ted Bundy, like, he killed people. He's like, and he'd always like, say, I hate, I hate people's behaviors. You shouldn't hate anybody. And I was like, that was like, a really like, it's, I mean, I remember it. This is, like, when I was a kid, and now I'm, like, in my 40s. And this is, like, a really interesting lesson that I feel like, personally, like that is something that is lacking in this world. And I feel like that's on par with Christianity. I feel like that's the Jesus that I learned about was, like, he loved everybody again, like I said, the prostitutes, like all these people that were outcasts of society, and, and, yeah, you didn't like, I'm sure some of those behaviors did not line up with being a Christian. But I mean, you're not, you the first step is love and then, you know, yeah, obviously we have laws in place. You know, you're not going to let Ted Bundy out on the streets and things like that. But, I

J.T.: 53:35

mean, yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't mean that at the same time, God is just, you know, so like that, it's interesting too. Like, he would tell certain people to repent, and if they didn't, obviously it's not like, it's not like, he affirms it forever. I do think it's interesting, like that, that some of the things he got criticized for by, like, the Pharisees were like, yeah, he's eating with the tax collectors and the sinners and all the bad people. And I, and I do think that as Christians, yeah, like, the sick need a physician. So, like, if, if I'm only hanging out with, like, the people who claim to be good, well, how much good am I really doing with them? So sometimes, at times, and I think that's why, like, the some of the videos and stuff I do make, I'm trying to cast a wider net. I'm trying to talk about stuff that everybody else wants to talk about, and I'm trying to be able to present it in a way that makes sense with, you know, a relationship with God and a biblical understanding. So I think that, to me, it's kind of like, Did I have friends who are not Christians, and I'm not here to say, you know, by the way, you're going to hell, you know, like, every five minutes, because we wouldn't be friends. And maybe, you know, that those, those people would not want to talk to me anymore, you know, so at the same time, it's like, if they ever gave me an opportunity to share with them, then I would do it, you know? I mean, I think that that's like, sometimes people, some people could say some things that are true, and they could say it in the wrong way. And everybody knows that, like, you know, there's a time and place for. Things to be said. And I think that part of being, I think a good Christian is like, you think about like examples of Jesus, Jesus knew all men, so he obviously would know when the right time was to tell somebody something, you know. So, like, I It's my belief that we as Christians need to not be afraid to say what's true, but at the same time, like, wait some waiting for the right opportunity is can be key, you know, so reaching somebody like being, being non, non judgmental, and then that person comes to you one day because you weren't a jerk. And if they're, if they're in a jam, you might actually give them great advice, because you have not judged them this whole time, you know, then you can, then you have an opportunity to reach somebody because, yeah, because, like, you have not, you know, with scorched earth on

Chuck Shute: 55:50

them, yeah, well, and I think that's not even just use a more surface level example, like, you know, just things like, you know, like, I start working out a lot, so I'm trying to be more like healthy and stuff, but I'm also trying not to look at other people who don't do that and judge them and think that I'm better because I'm working out and eating healthier, and they're not. You know, I think it's a similar kind of thing, like we all have different lifestyles, and some parts of people's lifestyles you might not agree with. That doesn't mean that we can't have conversation or be friends or go to a movie together, whatever, or you coexist and just be in harmony. And I feel like that's what's a huge problem in America right now. It's like, we can't accept each other's different lifestyles, even if they're not hurt. Like, if somebody else chooses to eat a bunch of donuts and get to 300 pounds and not work out, like that doesn't affect me at all. But like, there's people that are really bothered by that and, and I don't know, it's just, it's kind of sad. Well,

J.T.: 56:47

I think that that's, again, no coincidences. I think that the reason people are so against each other is because the people on high like it that way. That's why we're they're always pitting us against each other,

Chuck Shute: 57:01

because then if we banded together and went against them, see, that's what we

J.T.: 57:07

would know who the real enemy was, yeah, if, if they didn't have us looking at each other, I think that's

Chuck Shute: 57:16

yeah. I try to point out some of the corruption, and then people like they take offense to it. I'm like, wait, I'm not calling out team sports. I'm calling out the corruption. Like, if you talk about,

J.T.: 57:27

well, if you, if you call out that party, well then you're talking about,

Chuck Shute: 57:34

I know, but I mean, but that's about the pharmaceutical industry as being evil, which I think they are. I think there's a lot of corruption in the pharmaceutical industry. Somehow you get labeled a right wing wacko. And I find that so bizarre, because it's affecting everybody you know. Or if you call the food industry, you call them out for being I mean, they're putting all these strange chemicals in our food people, all these diseases are skyrocketing. Somehow, that's a right wing thing. It's, which is just bizarre. I feel like, if anything, it should be a left wing thing. Well, control over our food would be left wing, but now it's a right wing thing. It's just,

J.T.: 58:12

I think that that was one of those red pill moments for me, was when so I grew up being raised in a conservative Christian home, and so I don't think anybody in my family ever voted for a Democrat. We were conservative, or, like, Reagan, Republican type household. And so naturally, I voted for George W Bush, you know, I said I repented of that. But the point being is, like, don't forget, he's part, yeah. But the point is is like, so I remember back then, and this was in my early 20s, you have all these people saying how horrible they are, yeah, and, and I was defending them, because, no, they're good, like George W Bush claims to be a Christian, and blah, blah blah, and he does this. And then obviously this, these wars are just, and, you know, we have to protect our people, and blah blah, you know, I made all those arguments. And I remember, I remember when they had that, Cindy Sheehan, you remember her? No, she was some woman who who lost her son. And I think I can't remember he died in Afghanistan or Iraq. Well, she, she, like, held protests out in front of, like, Bush's Ranch, like, every like, every day and like, so the news covered it like crazy. And you remember there was, like the Death ticker up on CNN and stuff like that, where they would show how many people died in the war, and they were counting up to when it was more than 911 and all that stuff. Do you remember all that stuff? No.

Chuck Shute: 59:34

I mean, what year was this?

J.T.: 59:35

I mean, it was obviously sometime during, like the maybe 2005

Chuck Shute: 59:40

ish, watch the new I literally avoided the news like the plague back there. I didn't start watching the news until 2020 and then I just got, I started going down the rabbit hole and all this stuff, and I got wrapped. And now it's like, probably people are, you know, there's part of me that wishes I never did that

J.T.: 59:58

well, right? But what I'm saying is like. I did. So I remember how the left was shown to be anti war, yeah. And, and then the the right wing tried to paint the left as weak and, you know, and, like, soft on, you know, terror and all this stuff. And they tried to, yeah. So there was this dichotomy of, like, pitting us against each other. So like, the Merrick, you know, like the right wingers were claiming to be patriots, the left wingers were claiming, like, the right wingers are warmongers and and war profiteers and stuff like that. And then, so then I remember when Barack Obama became president, and I thought, okay, so things are gonna obviously change a lot, right?

Chuck Shute: 1:00:38

Yeah, they're gonna end all the wars. I think he campaigned on that, right?

J.T.: 1:00:42

Well, yeah, he certainly did. And I remember when they start doing stuff in Syria, and then, of course, then expands in Afghanistan, and the war in Iraq takes forever to get over, and obviously they continue. And then I remember, and I was like, nobody even talks about the war in Afghanistan anymore. I remember feeling like we were sold the bill of goods. It's like, this has not ever been what it's been so like, so by the time I was became anti these wars. Like, remember when? Remember when Trump was trying to end the war in Afghanistan, and they were, they're flipping out, when he was trying to pull his troops out of different places. And I remember, like, the only time he ever got positive press was when he bombed Syria once or something. Do you remember that? Yeah, there was a time where he did that. And I thought they were like, Finally, he's looking presidential. And I was just like, we are living and the crate and crazy times. And I remember this whole time like the people on the left side of the aisle were saying, Yeah, Big Pharma is evil. Big foods, evil, all these chemicals and stuff they're spraying. And it's like, so that was, that used to be a left thing, yeah, right. And so then, so then, yeah, you get past, like, 2020, and yeah. So now it's like, these things. It's like, it flips regard, regardless of what you know it's, it has something to do with whoever your team is saying is good or it's not. And I think that obviously the people who were paying attention in 2020 said, I'm not, I'm I'm not with any y'all anymore, like, you know, like, I'm not mad. That's funny, because I

Chuck Shute: 1:02:10

really liked RFK, and I really liked Tulsi Gabbard, and so I was like, Oh, I'm an independent, because I like those two, and they're Democrats, but I like some Republicans, and then they flipped, and I was like, oh, maybe I'm a Republican. I guess I don't know, because the most sense to me out of anybody, and I don't like, I'd say I hate 98% of politicians, but those two, I'm like, I like these two. I like what they're saying, and, and now they're not Democrats anymore. It's kind

J.T.: 1:02:35

of weird. No, so, I mean, that's so, that's what I was saying. I was like, so now you really can, kind of, it's exposed, kind of naked to everyone like that. No man, these, these people are, are one, one side's pushing you one way, and they're kind of pushing you the other way, but they're all trying to get you kind of in this middle spot where, you know, this is where they really want us. Because, yeah, it's nothing ever gets done this good for us. When they finally get something done, it's always, you know, we're going to be, we're going to be bearing the brunt of whatever thing they just did,

Chuck Shute: 1:03:10

the 2008 the the bank crisis, the big banks got all bailed out, and then this big covid inflation thing. I mean, they said, I don't know the statistics or numbers exactly, but it was basically a huge elevation of wealth upward to the richest whatever percent or whatever. Like, they all got richer, but all the like, regular people, like, all got poor. Yeah,

J.T.: 1:03:32

I watched that. Did you ever see that movie, The Big Short? Yeah, I watched that movie. I remember when I so I started going down the rabbit of conspiracies. And I remember there was one this, like, it was like, like, the New World Order and biblical prophecy, and then, like, the, then the part two of it was all about the money, and it was all about the banks. And I remember I was, like, so sick to my stomach when I finally realized, like, how the banking system worked. And it was like, you know, I feel, I feel silly for not never looking into these things before. But, yeah, watching, like, The Big Short, I remember, I watched that, like a year or two ago, and I was like, that's happening now. Like everyone do you guys know that's happening now, because that, you know, again, this is how much they lie to us when they said, remember when the the war in Ukraine started and they were everyone was blaming Russia for the inflation. Yeah, you know, stupid that sounds it's like they they printed. You guys can look this up. I think between 2020 and 2021, they printed 80% of the united the US dollar in circulation. During that time, 80% of all the money in circulation was printed within, like, a year. And then so then they try to say, oh, it's Russia that's causing inflation. Oh, really, yeah, what about all that money you printed? And so, so now you kind of see like that. I never really understood that concept of, like, keeping your money moving, like it's basically, like, you don't want it sitting in the bank, because obviously, when they print that much money, I don't if you had a. $100,000 in the bank. You might still say 100,000 but it ain't 100,000 anymore. It's way less. And so, like, that's why, that's why the stock market, well, that's why the stock market always goes up. It's because the money is worth less, like assets become become more valuable. So that's how the rich always get richer during these scenarios, because they own the stuff, right?

Chuck Shute: 1:05:21

Well, so they'll take the money out, buy a bunch of assets, and then when the dollars go up, then they sell that, because now those assets are worth more.

J.T.: 1:05:31

Well, no, or they don't. They don't sell. They keep leveraging what they already own. Oh, okay, in order to take out more money, they don't, actually, because they don't just keep money. They keep the money always moving. That's what I mean, like. So they don't, they don't ever take the money. They always gain more assets, and they they take on more loans and debt because the because, obviously it becomes, it looks better as the money, as the dollar devalues. And so I started to understand, I'm like, dang it. Like, so when they do that, I didn't realize that you like. So if, if you and I fired up the money printer machine in our own basement, that would be counterfeiting, and that would be illegal. But when they do it, it's fine, even though it's like, it's literally stealing from us, yeah, so that, so that is the real game. It's like that when you're distracted, you're fighting about, you know, I don't even know, like, you know, weird topics that they always try to pit us against each other. Meanwhile, yeah, like, they're just firing up the money printing machine. It's probably still going, and it's like they don't care, you know what? I mean, I think that's the point is, like, to be, be distracted, and it's that whole, like, kind of, you're gonna own nothing, and you're gonna be happy, right? Yeah, we're like, on the road

Chuck Shute: 1:06:43

a lot of these politicians, I mean, they are basically just puppets for their donors who are this the ultra wealthy people that, I mean, there's a lot of people behind the scenes, a lot of these names. People don't even like Larry Fink and all these guys that are the CEO of Blackrock, people, George Soros and his son, and people that nobody knows who these people are, but they're they're basically controlling the whole country. I mean, we basically have an oligarchy. We don't really have a democracy or a republic. It's really an oligarchy where just these super, ridiculously wealthy, just however many it is, are basically pulling the strings as to everything that's happening.

J.T.: 1:07:22

Yeah, yeah. There's no doubt about that. I think you were saying even those names we I'm convinced that the people who are really doing all the work, we have no idea who they are. They don't want you to know what their names are. You know, it's like, in the same way that they don't need to draw attention to themselves. These are the

Chuck Shute: 1:07:40

people you think there's, there's other people that are not THAT ARE YOU DON'T EVEN they're not even on paper.

J.T.: 1:07:46

Well, I'm saying that their last name's probably Rothschild. You know, like, the people who, like, own the banks are the ones that people control the Fed. Well, that's

Chuck Shute: 1:07:54

some crazy stuff, because I don't know. I mean, you're probably old enough to remember, like, there used to be, like, Mom and Pop banks, and that does not exist in you cannot find a mom and pop bank, and the reason for that is because they change the regulations so much that you need basically a team of 30 or 40 lawyers to look over all the paperwork and make sure you're doing all this shit right. They've made it so complicated. And I mean, you couldn't just start a bank, like, you just, it'd be like, and then, so how many banks are there? It was, like, three or something, or what, I don't know. I mean,

J.T.: 1:08:28

it's, I mean, yeah, like, who knows, yeah, who owns all the banks? And yeah, the the fractional lending and all that kind of stuff. Like, when I learned about that, I was just like, I mean, I

Chuck Shute: 1:08:39

think that's on purpose. I don't know, right? The Big Short twice, I still don't understand all that stuff. I know that the average people, we all got screwed. And then you can What do you blame these people, or that people, or whatever like but the higher ups, they did, they didn't. They survived. They did. They Well, it's someone else.

J.T.: 1:08:57

You know, it's like it was like they show at the end of the movie. Is that? Put it this way, if the system was fair, like it would be harder to get loans, but, you know, it would be because people obviously are not giving loans to people can't pay them back and but there would be equity in the who gets loans, but, but they they give people loans who can't afford them, and obviously, knowing the government will bail them out, or the government will buy those garbage loans. And so the banks made money on each ever little transaction, you know, so like that. And that's obviously what's caused the housing crisis, because it'd be like they could sell bad loans to Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and all that stuff. And then the government bought all that garbage, and so they made money on that, and then later, what they shorted their own, they shorted their own bonds, and then they got bailed out after that. And so, yeah, so did that was, I guess, the kind of like, the takeaway was that those guys, like, was Steve carells care. After was like, these people are idiots. You know, they're showing these, like, these Wall Street guys that they're so cocky, and they're like, they're idiots. And it's like they weren't idiots, like they knew what was going to happen so they could afford to make money every which way, because they knew they would get bailed out afterwards. And like, when you think about it's in the same kind of way that I remember even just like recently that my my friends were selling their parents house, and there was, like, I think it was like 400 something $1,000 house, and it was like an FHA loan. It was like 100% you know, 100% of it was, was taking a loan. They didn't put anything down. And I was like, So just think about it like, if you were a bank, would you loan anybody in my that much money if they didn't put anything down? Right?

Chuck Shute: 1:10:47

Now, that's how it used to be. I remember my brother was a mortgage broker. He was doing very well during that time.

J.T.: 1:10:52

But you think about it like that, let's just say the bank did have to worry about people like that. Then, like, what if you were going to put 20% down? Shouldn't you get a better rate? Shouldn't you get a much better rate than those people? You know, like, you aren't you a much better investment for them getting their money back? But that has nothing to do with it. And so obviously, when they do when they when they do that, they cause the houses to go up. And now regular people who actually have played by the rules cannot afford them. And I think that that's the place we're in right now where, like, like, I don't know, I don't know how this place, I don't know how it gets sorted out. Now I've What,

Chuck Shute: 1:11:32

like the Rothschilds and all those people like, what is the ultimate goal? I mean, is there, is there a more sinister motive? Because I'm just like, point, you have so much wealth and so many like, What all do you I mean, you look at a guy like Elon Musk, I know he's a controversial figure, and people don't like it, but he's out there giving Starlink to the people in North Carolina. And like, I mean, it seems like he's trying to help people, and he's buying Twitter because he feels like this is what we need for free speech, and he's doing things that, whether you agree or not. I mean, he's trying to do the right thing where, like you said, These people, these Rothschilds that are behind the scenes, I don't know how you justify their motives as for the people, or trying to help people in any way. I mean, it seems like they're just trying to gain more wealth. I'm like, how much wealth do you need? It's like, well,

J.T.: 1:12:21

well, I mean, again, if you I mean, that's why I would say that these, this, this ends up being spiritual. It's like, the the stuff that happens on Epstein Island doesn't just happen just because these are, these people are just perverts. You know, I think it's because these people do, they serve, like, coordinated, evil, like, and, I mean, like, I mean, I do believe that, like, these kind of things. Going back to the first topic, it's like, yeah, aliens are real, but they're not what. They're not from outer space. They're from they're interdimensional. They're from a spiritual realm. And I do believe that the people who are in high places they're in, they're in some kind of communication with them. It doesn't make sense to me that, yeah, because, because you ever watched those kind of old movies, like mob movies, and you're thinking, like, this guy's got so much money they can't even fit it into one room. And you're like, why don't they just get out? They can't get out because they work for people who are there, who they made deals with, you know? And that's what's going on here. Because it's like, haven't you ever wondered, like we see in our Congress, how many geriatrics are in this Congress, when you're like, why wouldn't they just retire? Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:13:26

like, because they can't like the perks, so they like the

J.T.: 1:13:30

I know you've seen, I know you've seen that one interview with with was it Bob Dylan, in front of, you know, in 60 minutes, and they're asking, Why doesn't

Chuck Shute: 1:13:38

he saw the clip on your channel? Yeah, well, he talked about, he made a deal with Chief Commander on this earth and the world we can't see. That's a creepy line.

J.T.: 1:13:48

Yeah, you think so, yeah, so, like, it's kind of like, so he's Yeah, it's kind of like, why don't you just because he made a deal? And it's like, why would he say that, unless it was true?

Chuck Shute: 1:14:01

How does it? How does that? What does that look like? Like is it? Is it more of just like they're just kind of saying it and they're reading it in a book, and they're just kind of like making this thing in their head, kind of like how you're a Christian, like they're just kind of doing that on their own. Or do you think there's actual entity that they're in contact with that they can see and hear and touch,

J.T.: 1:14:24

um, treat. The matter is, I don't know exactly. I do think it's interesting, like, the idea of, like, selling your soul, you know? Because what does that mean exactly? I think some people could say it in the way that you've you've sold your soul when you start doing things for money that you would never have done before. Like you really go against your own principles, because you did, you know, you've done something just for monetary gain, so in that kind of way that you could have done it. But when the way he says it, it does seem like it's more than that, you know, like that's he, he seems like. He's he knows what he's done in a way that I don't know, because I don't know. I mean, obviously I've never seen anything like that. I've never even really heard anything like that. But, I mean, obviously Jesus, the one who says, you know, what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and for forfeits his soul? What? What can a man trade for his soul? But there's interesting you hear those stories about, who is it? Um, the Robert Johnson who, who sold his soul at the crossroad? Oh, the blues player, yeah. And of course, he's supposedly couldn't play a lick, and then he comes back, and he's like, the best guitar player on in the world. And this guy dies at 27 he writes all these songs about, like the hounds of hell are coming to get him. And, you know, just weird kind of weird stuff, but like that kind of meme in in music is, is out there, like I do wonder that when you understand again, back to Lester Crowley, there's this influence of him in in artists, you know, popular musicians and the like. And they go by his methods, and they do, they read his books, and they reference them in songs. And obviously, this guy wrote books about how to contact spirits, and, you know, that's literally like witchcraft is like trying to get spirits to give you power in some kind of way. You know, that's magic. And so is it possible that these people use his methods in order to, you know, games, gain some kind of musical talent or ability, write songs, play a method,

Chuck Shute: 1:16:32

like, what, what, like, what, some sort of chanting or something, or, well, what

J.T.: 1:16:36

I'm saying, it's all, I mean, obviously I don't know, to the to the level, but, I mean, you see the stuff about, like, You know, like, what? It's like, witchcraft, it's like. So they can use, they use signs and sigils and phrases and whatever, in order to basically bind demons and getting to demons to do what they want them to do. You know, they that's, that's why, like you ever seen in these movies, they'll be drawing on the floor, and they'll be drawing a certain sigil, and they're doing the ritual inside of it, because, like, the sigil either summons them or protects them from the entity they're summoning.

Chuck Shute: 1:17:09

Did you ever see that movie The skeleton key?

J.T.: 1:17:13

I have not. I have not.

Chuck Shute: 1:17:14

Oh my gosh, that one's, like, sticks with me. It's Kate Hudson, and she's, like, in the Louisiana or somewhere down south, and it's all about, like, the voodoo and, yeah, she does some sort of, like, chalk thing that protects, I mean, it's, it's, it's kind of almost seems kind of real, like, some of this stuff seems really fake, and then some of it you're kind of like, I think that's what makes the those kinds of movies good, is where you're kind of like the Exorcist, where you're like, this Seems like it almost could happen, like it seems Yeah, could be real. It could happen, yeah, into the story of Exodus. I mean, there is a story behind it, a true story of a boy, not a girl, but a boy who was causing objects to move and stuff. And then so there's people that try to debunk it and say, Well, he was just using strings or something, or, like, some way that he was moving. And there's other people that go, that say, No, this was 100% real. I don't know, but it's fascinating to think, to think of the possibility even I think, Well,

J.T.: 1:18:12

I remember one time we, I think we, we touched on a little bit, but, I mean, like, so good examples, I get Jimmy Page, right? So Jimmy Page, but, yeah, yeah. But Lester Crowley's house really

Chuck Shute: 1:18:23

into that, because I had his drum, one of the drummers he worked with, and they said he was doing some like crazy shit on the plane, like playing with a Ouija board or something like, yeah,

J.T.: 1:18:32

no, he was, he was all into that. I mean, I think they even said, like, his costumes were, like wizard robes or something like that. And he was doing like, dude, weird kind of, like, ceremonial things. When he bought

Chuck Shute: 1:18:42

the house of, uh, somewhere there was some murder or, like, No, that was

J.T.: 1:18:46

the crazy. That was the crazy thing that I learned that the the house, well, I guess they call it bileskin house. Was where the site of this place was used to have a church on that site. And the church burned down with the whole congregation inside of it, and he bought that. Yeah, so he bought, he bought that house. And obviously Lester Crowley owned it first. Actually, I don't think he's the first person to own it, but like, Lester Crowley had it, and then eventually Jimmy Page bought it, and there was all kinds of crazy stuff that happened in it. Yeah, they, they literally buried all the people from the church on the site, in the yard, there was a tunnel from the house to like, like, you go down into the basement and like, there was a tunnel through the property to get you out to where the graveyard is. And, yeah, you know, you guys can look that up. There's all kinds of weird stuff that happened. Happened at that house. I think even I want to say that Jimmy Page also bought a shop that had something to do with Lester Crowley. It was like some kind of a, like a witchcraft type, you know, I think you're right, book store. And, yeah, so these people like, I guess you put it this way, like that, I think that each member of Led Zeppelin, each had little sigils for. Their names and things, and they wrote down, like, almost, I forgot what they put on their with the phrase they wrote on their their album, but it's, it was kind of a, it was kind of like, do without wilt or something like that. That's Lester Crowley's phrase. And yeah, so then you see all these famous musicians who are repping him. You know, another good example is like that author, artist, Alan Moore. He wrote the was, he wrote the V for Vendetta comic books, okay, like really famous DC comic writer, and he used the method the less Crowley did, and it's like some kind of witchcraft. And, yeah, so he, he actually talks about, he was really open about the fact that he was basically possessed by a demon. At some point. He said it was, like the worst month of his life. But then he accepted it, and then it was like, you know, what's

Chuck Shute: 1:20:49

really crazy that I just thought of because he brought up Jimmy Page, and I was like, you know, like, like, how, if you look at his career, I mean this, this could just be a weird coincidence, but remember when he had that, he guessed it on that rap song. I was like, was that rap song, P Diddy?

J.T.: 1:21:06

Oh yeah, that's, that's right, yeah, that's,

Chuck Shute: 1:21:08

isn't that crazy to think about like, oh yeah. Just happened to maybe have a connection there.

J.T.: 1:21:15

Yeah, that's something, isn't it? No, that's right, yeah. I did actually think I forgot that. Yeah, I did, yeah. That was one of his big songs. Was, like, on the Godzilla song soundtrack or something. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:21:25

come with me, a song recorded by American rapper Puff Daddy. That's what it was called back then, featuring English guitarist Jimmy Page from the soundtrack to the 19 eight film Godzilla. Wow, that's crazy. It's like we come full circle. Well,

J.T.: 1:21:39

I mean that, what else brings these people together? Well, it's funny. It's funny that

Chuck Shute: 1:21:45

you say that because I had this guy. Have you ever watched Celebrity Rehab?

J.T.: 1:21:48

I think I've. I remember seeing, maybe I've probably seen an episode of it didn't was it Flavor Flav on that or something? Yeah. I

Chuck Shute: 1:21:55

mean, one of the count, anyways, one of the counselors, name was Bob forest, and I had him on the show. He was a musician, and then he became a substance abuse counselor. And it was interesting, because he said, like, you know, he was kind of more into like this, like, Arty, kind of indie rock band. He was friends with Red Hot Chili Peppers. I think he lived with them, and I think he managed them at one point. And, you know, he was saying how in the 80s, all the musicians of different genres were friends, like metal. It wasn't like, oh, there was heavy metal and there was indie rock. He's like, we were all friends, and the thing that brought us together was drugs. So,

J.T.: 1:22:28

well, it's interesting. What's interesting, like, Lester Crowley was all about using drugs, I guess, to, you know, kind of, kind of thin the veil, or kind of enter that spiritual, you know,

Chuck Shute: 1:22:40

yeah, because, well,

J.T.: 1:22:42

you think about, think about what the, remember, what the, remember, what the, the Big Red Hot Chili Peppers album was called. It was called Blood Sugar sex magic, yeah, and so sex magic at that point, that was but, but sex magic was from, like Lester Crowley, so he even spelled it with a K. Spelled it with the same, yeah, yeah. He spelled it with a K, so, like, all that stuff is related. I mean, it could be. I mean, I guess it's the thing. It's like that the drugs is a is another way to to get there. But I think

Chuck Shute: 1:23:11

there's different drugs, or is it alcohol too, because that's something. I think it's all of it. I

J.T.: 1:23:15

think, I think there's different I think what I'm saying is like that. There's, there's ritualistic ways to do it. People can astral project. They can meditate, and kind of like some people can do it. Some people talk about those, those Ayahuasca ceremonies, and, oh,

Chuck Shute: 1:23:29

you think that's demonic.

J.T.: 1:23:31

Well, Ayahuasca is literally called divine of the dead, and you work with shaman and and you know, you contact spirits and ancestors and weird stuff like that. So it's kind of like, it's the vine of the dead, who are the ancestors? Like, what, you know, I'm saying, like,

Chuck Shute: 1:23:49

because that is such a I'm way too scared to ever do something like that. But I'm so fascinated by people who do it and the experience they talk about, and they say, I mean, they describe it as being more real during the Ayahuasca experience than real life, which is really crazy to think about. I can't even wrap my head around that.

J.T.: 1:24:08

Well, like I said, I think it's a way, I mean, it's like that that very clearly is you're literally using people who are medicine man like they're, they're kind of like witch doctors that are helping you through this experience in order to, you know, get on this different plane. And so that plane, obviously, is the spiritual realm, and it's interesting how people

Chuck Shute: 1:24:31

but could it be a positive spiritual realm? Could you potentially interact with good spiritual spirits, like, could it you see Jesus or that? I don't

J.T.: 1:24:41

think you know, I don't think you've seen you're seeing Jesus like that. I think that that, well, I mean, God would say, don't do that kind of stuff. And what that, what that is, it's like sorcery, like God the Bible would describe it, and a lot of lot of drugs back in, you know, like, back in the top times of the Bible would be like, yeah, you use these, these drugs. In order to get in the right mindset spirit, in order to do your whatever your worship ceremony is, and like so that so very clearly that stuff has not changed in the Ayahuasca ceremonies. So the truth is that the Bible does not tell you to not do certain these things because they don't work. It's tells you to not do certain things because you're opening yourself up to things you don't understand. And so, like, could somebody have a positive experience doing that? Yeah, I suppose it's possible, but it's more likely to me that you're opening yourself up to to think, yeah, well, I mean, you very clearly open up things you don't understand. I don't think most people understand that kind of thing. And so what there was interesting was that Aaron Rodgers, who famously went down there and did it, and then he came back and he was, and he was claiming to see, he was claiming to see the hat man. Do you ever hear that story like you've ever heard of that entity called the hat man? It's like a shadow, like a shadow on people's will? Yeah, I

Chuck Shute: 1:25:59

was really, yeah, that is really, what is that? What does that mean? It's a

J.T.: 1:26:03

demon. I mean, it's, obviously, it sounds like a demon. It's like a shadow it's a, you know, it's shadow creature, yeah? So, like, he's climbing,

Chuck Shute: 1:26:12

no Google hat man, right now, and see, yeah, because I remember hearing that and going, that doesn't sound fun, that sounds freaky.

J.T.: 1:26:20

It seems interesting. Like the Aaron Rodgers is like, for all the things positive he has in his life, he seems kind of like, he doesn't seem like he's that, that well adjusted, you know, so, like, whatever he did back down there, I don't think he seemed like he, he reaped a lot of benefits. Well, he's

Chuck Shute: 1:26:34

not playing very well this year, ultimately, no, yeah, I

J.T.: 1:26:38

don't think, I don't think he's played well, since he went down there and did that.

Chuck Shute: 1:26:42

That is interesting. Yeah, it's because you hear people like Joe Rogan rave about it. And there's like, a guy that I follow that the mindset mentor podcast, and that guy's like, really clean cut and like, really super nice guy, and he raves about, I think it's Ayahuasca. I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. And he will talk about how great it is, and so interesting.

J.T.: 1:27:02

I've, I've read stuff that lots of these CEOs, like lots of really big, powerful, like businessmen have done, you know, mind altering drugs. Like adults, yeah, like they would claim would be mining, mine, expanding drugs. Well, do

Chuck Shute: 1:27:17

you think for some people, it does have a positive effect? Because if you're a CEO and you're just so it's like these Rothschild people, like, maybe the Rothschilds need to use magic mushrooms, because I feel like

J.T.: 1:27:27

they're, I think they, I think they have, I mean, I have a direct line to the to beings. I think, I think what it is, and this is my belief, is that I believe that they use these drugs to get in contact with, you know, like you're getting ideas that aren't in your head normally. Like, do you think it could be? And if they, if they claim to be contacting entities, is it possible that they are and so, like, you could say, Is it possible to have a positive experience when you're doing that? Well, it depends what you mean by positive. Like, you know, what, what about it's positive. So if, biblically, the devil could offer you all kinds of, like, material things. And so a lot of people would say, yeah, that was a real positive experience. I got all the things that I was, I was looking for, but, but what it, what does that? Where does that leave you? One day, I think, you know, like, Is it, is it possible that, like, you could experience short term benefit, and then maybe long term you could be like Bob Dylan saying, I'm still doing this because I made a deal. I mean, has the deal Bob Dylan made? Is it as it worked out for him? I mean, it sounds like that. I mean, if we're just talking about deal with

Chuck Shute: 1:28:39

the devil, because the guy can't sing for shit, most famous musicians, well,

J.T.: 1:28:44

did you well? There you go. Though it's like he's not even a good singer, and he's

Chuck Shute: 1:28:49

the thing, the theory with psychedelics that how it could help somebody, is it? Especially with like addiction, I had a guy who was on here. It was a doctor, and he's doing experiments with a mostly magic mushrooms, I think. But psychedelics, and especially with people with people with addiction, is like they're so fixated on this thing, and this is like they're stuck in their ways. And what the psychedelics does is it breaks that up, and it kind of allows them to kind of see things in a different light. And that can often, oftentimes be a positive one. I'm sure it can go negative as well. But for somebody with addiction, I think it could be worth the risk. Maybe you are opening yourself up for demons. I don't know. But

J.T.: 1:29:29

well, I guess, I guess that's the point is, like, did you know if you think about in the same kind of way that you could say, well, so and so tried this one pharmaceutical drug, and it was it, it was right for that same symptom they had. But then it's like, so is there any side effects to these things? I mean, we, only we, and I don't do well psychedelics.

Chuck Shute: 1:29:47

I mean, I've smoked weed and I I've had, I was always one of those guys that, like, would smoke weed and then I would get, like, a paranoid and shit, like, no Howard Stern movie where he's like, I turned to drugs, and he's like, and he's like, but they made me paranoid. He, like, flips around, like, that's, you know, so like, to me, I