John Cooper of Skillet Discusses New Album, Tour, State of America, Mental Health & More!

John Cooper is the lead vocalist, bassist and founding member of the Christian rock band Skillet.  They have a new album "Revolution" out on November 1st and will be on tour with Seether.  We discuss the new album, moving from a major label to an independent, mental health in America, freedom, Linkin Park's new singer and more!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:12 - Production & Collaboration on New Album
0:04:14 - Independent Release & Creative Freedom
0:06:08 - Challenges & Benefits of Independent Music
0:13:44 - Touring & Relationships with Non-Christian Bands
0:15:43 - The Role of Music in Bridging Differences & Tolerance
0:26:30 - Who You Want to Listen to Your Music & Politics
0:29:00 - Christians Faith, Making Mistakes & Forgiving
0:35:10 - Celebrities, Politicians, Material World & Perfection
0:37:43 - Revolution Album Themes, Loneliness & Mental Health
0:42:30 - Physical Health, Freedom Movement & Principles
0:48:00 - Traveling to Russia & Other Countries Vs. America
0:51:05 - Homeless, Drug Addiction, Helping People & Solutions
0:57:20 - Freedom, Philosophy, Euthanasia & Pursuing Life
1:01:55 - Barna Research, Depression, Truths & Reality
1:06:05 - Skillet's Music Saving Lives
1:08:55 - Touring with a Variety of Bands & Shows
1:10:40 - Rescue the Republic Show
1:13:10 - Linkin Park & Replacing Singer
1:17:00 - New Album, Principles & Supporting 
1:18:49 - Outro

Skillet band website:
https://www.skillet.com/

Chuck Shute link tree:
https://linktr.ee/chuck_shute

Transcript

John Cooper: 0:12

I'm on the bus, so I did what I could,

Chuck Shute: 0:15

no that's like, tell I'm telling you I thought a lot where it's like someone's in a bathroom or something that's really echoey, and then there's nothing I can do about it. So or, like, they're outside in the wind. I'm like, how? Do not know how sound works. I thought you guys would know. Sometimes producers, I'll be interviewing producers, and they're like, have the worst sound. I'm like, I don't get it.

John Cooper: 0:35

That's funny, man. Well, a lot of musicians are not good with technology that they're they tend to be either, like, really, really good with technology or completely inept. I'm on the inept side, but my wife has helped me try to figure this thing out, so I'll give her props later. Okay, nice.

Chuck Shute: 0:57

No, it sounds great, because

John Cooper: 0:59

you guys have a new album. And, I mean, you've got the WHO THE Producers. I know I'm spacing on the name, but they produced the other albums that you did not the last couple but right before, right? Yeah, it's kind of a mix, actually. So my wife, Corey, who plays guitar for skillet, she produced one of the songs on the record. And then we have a guy called Brian Howes, who produced, I think, four tracks on the record, if I remember correctly. And he also did our unleashed and comatose records. And then there's another guy called Seth Mosley, who he also has produced some tracks of us in the past, but this is the most that he's done. So it was kind of a cool collaboration, yeah? Because before you had Kevin chirko, who's also a great producer as well, but he didn't do this one. Yeah, correct. Kevin is a great friend, genius producer, probably my favorite rock producer and but this time, we just decided to go a different direction, but Kevin's probably my he's probably my favorite. I love his records. You can always tell it's his. You hear you go, Oh, that's, that's, that's a Turco project. And I like that. But we kind of went a different route on our sound this time. And I really enjoyed it because it is very it very much sounds like skillet. And I think also kind of giving Corey the reigns to do that, because Cory has produced a lot of our older stuff, and always been at the very least involved in the sound, if that makes sense. Yeah. So production is all, I mean, besides just the sound, it's also, like the arrangement and and the songwriting and all that stuff. I mean, there's a piece of that, like changing things here and there, right? Yeah, that's right. You know, production is one of these kind of things when there's a lot of different ways you can do it. Some people are really good producers, because they are really good, uh, Song arrangers, as you just alluded to. So they're like, yeah, no, this needs to be, you know, different instrumentation. And you have things that that like, like, maybe if you listen to some of those old like Michael Jackson, if you listen to thriller, I mean, the the musical arrangement is, it's more like orchestration is absolutely genius. You have these people like Bob Rock and people like that, you know, and they like Metallica's Black Album. It's, it's known for these drum sounds, and it's known for near the Black Album for Metallica seemed to be a little less, I don't know, progressive might be the right word for it, you know, like it was arranged a little bit more orthodox, you know, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, guitar solo, verse, chorus, excuse me, chorus three. And so there's a bunch of different ways you can do it. And I think that what I love about this new record of ours is that it is very skillet, meaning we we wrote the songs, we wrote them, and the arrangements are very much how we would do them. And then when we needed help with sounds, or if we wanted to try something different, we pull other people in. And I think that's why it just sounds so much like a skillet record. It's probably it's probably why I'm so I'm on fire about the project is my favorite record we've done in years and years, and I think the songs are really catchy and they're poignant lyrically. And I think all that was just, hey, we got to make our own project part of that's also because which we may get to or not, whatever you prefer, but because this was also an independent release, this is our first independent project we've recorded. We've been on Atlantic Records for the last 20 years, so we were really very much doing a skillet project. Oh, okay, yeah, so that was your choice to leave Atlanta, because I know musicians, it seems to be kind of the trend as a lot of people are ditching the major labels because it's like, it's not really worth it. You know, back in the day, you needed them, and you needed all that. Now it's like, it's almost easier to do it independently, right? Yeah, I think that that's right. I mean, and again, a lot of people leave for lots of different reasons. Um, you know, ours was, was, I would say it was sort of a mutual thing. Um. Um, and I'm sort of a, I don't usually like trying new things. You know, something has worked good for us. I'm sort of, like, I'm very kind of conservative, like that. I'm like, I don't want to try something new. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You know, we sold, sold millions of records with Atlantic, and I did really enjoy that. But I do think that that the world, the internet, has changed music and so now, like for instance, here we are. We're doing a podcast, and there's a lot of people that love coming to hear your show all the time and talk about stuff, talk about what's happened, talk music, what people are learning about bands from different places. It's so different than it used to be, and you don't have to have that machine. So just to be clear, and I want to be really stand up about it. Great relationships with Atlantic nobody made me mad. There's no bad blood we have. We I learned a lot great, great stuff, but it was time for us to go on our own. It was just time for us to be like, Hey, we've made 11 records. This new one is our 12th album. I think we know how to make records now. I think we have a very good handle on what our who our fans are. I think I know what our fans want to hear, because I see, I see them every night. 130 shows a year for the last 27 years, I know what they like. I'm I'm, I see them all the time, you know. And I think the skillet knows. So I think that that's a just getting all the cooks out of the kitchen is a really good thing, brother, yeah, and then don't you, you guys get a bigger piece of the pie. Now, we're not being on a major label, right? Because a major label, they'll take a more, a bigger percentage of stuff, right? That is typically true, and I would say that most people that do what we did would be like, yeah, obviously it's, you're taking a big risk, but the reward is much bigger. You know, you don't have the machine, but hey, whatever comes in, we're now, we're getting all the you know, skillet was a little unusual, because we already had a partnership deal with Atlantic when we renegotiated a few years ago, because, you know, we had, we had sold a lot of records, and had been very successful and, and I don't think we've said this on any other podcast, whether, I don't know if anybody's interested, we're making history, making news here with you, brother. But I think for us, we had wondered in 2016 if we would go indie then, because we had a big record, our contract was up, and I just wanted to make music the way I wanted. My only real complaint with the label was just we were having to write 5060, at 1.4 records. I wrote 76 songs for the project. And they kept saying, No, we don't the single yet. This is not good yet. And they kept sending me out to write, and you're so burned out, and it's taking you three and four years between projects just to release new music, because the label, they have to put so much money into it. They're like, No, we don't have the songs. And in 2016 I just said, Hey, I don't want to do this anymore. We saw a lot of records. It's been great, and now I want to have fun. I want to make the records I want to make, you know, and so we kind of did a deal where it was a partnership deal, where we were, we were very much profit splitting, which was very generous on their end. And I said, I appreciate that, but, but what I really want, more than the profit splitting. What I really want is your guarantee to me that once I say, Hey, we're not writing anymore, that you're going to say, Okay. And to their credit, they did that, which I really appreciated, but it was, I mean, 76 songs. We wrote 76 songs for the rise album that came out in 20 I think that was 13 or 14, four years in between projects, 76 songs. And the song that I thought was the best song on the record was called not gonna die. It was the third single they released, and it's the biggest single. And not only is the biggest single, it's literally the first song I wrote for the project, number one out of 76 and it ends up being the biggest song in the record. And we had to write for another three years. And I just was like, I can't do that again. I can never, ever do that again. Yeah. So what do you do with all those leftover songs and that didn't make the record? I mean, that's like, that's like, a few records you could release right there, or a box settlement. We want to hear a funny story. Actually, most people don't know this. One of the songs that I thought could have been the biggest song in the album. Was a song that we wrote called psycho in my head, wrote it in 2012 and they just didn't like it, and we just released it last year for the first time, and it's the biggest song on the last record. So we literally. Did for nine years. And I was like, you know, we went back to I said, I still think that was a really good song, and we never did anything with it, and I think we should re record it and release it, and we did, and it's the, it was the biggest song on the album. So I'm not trying to throw them under the bus. They, they also have had some, some, there were times when they believed in something that I didn't, and they were right and I was absolutely wrong. Okay, that's happened a lot, believe me, I've learned a lot from them. So I'm not really throwing them under the bus. I'm only just trying to say this is a this is a weird business, because it's all subjective. You know, some people like mayo, some people like mustard, and nobody's that, nobody's ever going to be right. And you just got to go on instinct. But after 2527 28 years in the business, seeing my fans every night, I know what people want to hear. I know what my fans want to hear anyway. Yeah, I get what you're saying, though, the too many cooks in the kitchen, but sometimes you got to have some. I mean, it's at least you have the band, right? You have producers, you have you do have other people that are you're bouncing ideas off. It's not just you. You're not just you're making, making all the decisions. No, I wouldn't be good at that. Now, I'm not saying that some artists couldn't be. There probably some artists that are far better than I am. I will admit that I am not objective about my own music. You know, every time I write a song this, you just don't know both of me for 25 years, and he's got wicked good ears. He probably could have been been an A and R guy, actually, and that story I just told you about this song called psycho in my head that we waited for nine years, he's actually the reason we rerecorded it. He just said, John, I've been telling you, this song is a hit. You've got to rerecord it. And so we said, okay, so he's the reason. So, yeah, we've got a really good team and but I just think having not so many people involved can sometimes just be a really good thing, you know, yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I've heard the two songs I've heard of this new record are great. I mean, unpopular is already getting radio play. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, so the first song was unpopular, as you mentioned, I don't think that unpopular is my favorite song in the album, but I thought it was the best first single because it's really catchy and it has that thing to it that's sort of like, it kind of feels like, when the first time you hear it, you kind of feel like, have I heard this before? You know it's got, like, an instant familiarity and and I think that it's it's also fun. It's a little tongue in cheek, and that's kind of different for skill, admittedly, but it's so catchy, and it just felt like the right song, and I think that people are going to relate to it. Another benefit of doing this project Indy is that if you're wanting to write a song that is like very much, like today, like, I think unpopular, is a 2024 song, because culture is changing so much, you've got cancel culture. You've got people being, you know, yelled about on social media, and a lot of people are just sick of it. They're sick of yelling at each other, they're sick of the hatred, they're sick of the vitriol. I'm sick of it, and we would like to come back to some sort of like normalcy when it's okay to disagree. But can we do it without hating each other? Maybe? And because of that, it's a it's very much a song for today. Well, imagine that I turned it into the label, and imagine they said, Yeah, that's really great. Keep writing. I want 70 more songs, and then in three years from now, unpopular comes out. Well, who knows what's going to be happening then this is a song for now, and people are going to hear it and say, yeah, there's nothing wrong with me speaking my mind. It is not wrong for you to speak your mind. Maybe we can just do it in a way where we don't try to get everybody fired that we disagree with, try to cancel people online and shut them down and censor them. I'm a big free speech guy, free I'm nearly as absolutist about free speech as you can get, and I'm so sick of all the censoring and all the all the yelling. Say what you mean, and let's be friends at the end of the day. I think that's a positive message, and that's kind of the overarching theme of that song. Yeah, no, that's great. Well, I heard you talking about how you know you've toured with all these other bands that you know are not Christian rock, but you have these discussions with all the band members, and you've never had in your view, you've never had it and badly you've all it's always been, Oh yeah, absolutely yeah. And of course, that is important to say, in my view. Maybe I don't know what they think, yeah. Maybe you have one of them on next week and they'll be like, yeah, no, that No, I hate John. No, I'm obviously joking. Great relationships. I mean. Some of some of the bands are atheist, some of them are agnostic. Some of them have even been almost like, well, it doesn't matter. Some of them are sort of religious. Maybe you call them spiritual, but not religious. Some of them are into super like Eastern Buddhism, and thing, we've always gotten along great. And most of the bands that I tour with are very different than me when it comes to political philosophy. I would usually call them sort of like progressives, probably, and they have different views on America than I do. I think America is the greatest country in the world. I believe in the founding principle that's of this country. I think are absolutely brilliant. I love Western civilization. A lot of people at Georgia. They're kind of progressive, and they're kind of like, you know, they believe, no, this country was whatever, you know, built on slavery, or whatever it is that they that, they say we always get along. I know their kids. They know my kids. We have meals together. We have fun together, we keep in touch. And I guess that what I'm trying to say is it's kind of given me a perspective of America that I think is true, or else, it's just my own life experience to where people actually do get along. People don't hate each other, and they may really hate something that I have to say, but they're willing to go. But yeah, I me and John are really good friends. I just, I don't like that. He says that, but we're still good friends. And I, I have a feeling that it's like that in most of the country. If people are willing to to engage with somebody that doesn't agree with them, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's just rock and roll, but I will say, I want to brag on all the people I've toured with to really say they're stand up people. They have never treated me like I'm less than or that I need to. They need to distance themselves from me or anything like that. So maybe I've just been blessed and been with the right people. Man, no, that's good to hear. I mean, so do you feel like you're learning from from people's differing perspectives as much as you're sharing their learning from you. I feel that that's true. I mean, and, and I think that that's what tolerance, like actual tolerance is, you know, is, is me saying, Okay, if we're going to, let's go back, just because this isn't one that hopefully won't make somebody so absolutely ticked off that they'll start yelling at me on your show to go back to the thing I just mentioned. So July 4. I'm gonna probably put out a picture on Instagram or something, saying, happy July 4, greatest country in the world. So thankful to live here. I maybe tour with a band that's sort of like not into America, and we can talk about that, and I hear where they're coming from, and it's like, it doesn't, it doesn't change my perspective. But I go, Alright, I'm going to tolerate, I'm going to tolerate that, that you're living in a country that you actually don't think is super duper good. So I'm not going to say, you know, love it, or leave it, get out here and go back to, or not, where you came from, but, you know, go somewhere else. I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna tolerate you and and I'm just asking that you tolerate me, that I am not a, I don't know, racist, because I think America is great, that I'm not into all this bad stuff. And I think that they know that. So I think those things are really good learning experiences. Now, I have had some, some bad I have had some bad reactions in the music industry at large, people who had the ability to not play my song because of these. Of some of these things not not bring me in for a concert, etc. Certainly, I've had those things happen, and that's just, that's just the price of doing business. So you either gotta shut up and not say anything that you believe, or you gotta say what you believe and understand there's a cost that comes with it. And what I found is if you're not willing to pay the cost for something, then maybe you don't believe it as much as you say. So shut up or put up. That's my personal philosophy. Yeah, no, I just read one of your books, not the latest one, but the other one I would listen to. Yeah, you talk about that a lot how I didn't know, like, when you first got signed, they wanted you to not be a Christian band, but then you were like, No, I'm not being true to myself. So right, yes, yeah. Definitely had some of that, and that was not my label, by the way, that I'm sorry, yeah, it was, No, yeah, no, you are absolutely correct. And, and there, there is some of that in the business, for sure. But again, but again, I think that it's just that, it's just that, that tolerance type thing in the music business, the industry will not tell you to stop, you know, proselytizing, as long as you are saying one particular narrative which is typically progressive, then they'll cheer you on and they'll say, Oh, they're just so brave. But if you come on and say, Hey, actually. Um, you know, I'm a conservative or I'm a gun owner. I support two way rights. They will start yanking you from stuff. They will not tolerate that. And so all I'm advocating for is sort of like, you know, hey, let's have the same standard for everybody. But yeah, that's just my personal thing. So you guys have lost gigs or something, or pulled off festivals or things like that, or we have been denied some, not much. And I would say that, that there's been more opportunity the last few years, I'm assuming, due to the success of the band, which is amazing and but we have, yeah, we have been denied access on tours. There is a this tour that we're on right now actually, you know, they wanted to book, they want to book the tour. Just they want skill and off the bill and and there's a show like that. And that happens sometimes. And I just go, if that's where you're at, then, you know, FYI, you're not near as tolerant as you think, because we are extremely tolerant, and I wouldn't treat you like that, but that's cool. That's who you are. I love you anyway, and I'm going to go do my thing, and I'm going to go, I'll go do another show and play for people that love skillet and want to see us. So that's my business. Yeah. I mean, is there, do you have some limit, though? I mean, there must be some bands that you wouldn't play with, like some of the death metal bands that are like Antichrist or anti Christian, would that that would kind of not be in line with your values, though, right? Well, that's an interesting question. You know, what's funny man is, and this sounds really stupid. I have never even considered that, which is dumb of me. I think the reason I never considered it is because, even if I wasn't a Christian, I don't think we'd be touring together, because our genres are so different. We would be seeing like the Backstreet Boys to like Cannibal Corpse fans or somebody. They'd be like, well, who is this? Who is this pop band? I'm Justin Timberlake of rock and roll for fans of those bands. Now we have, now we have done festivals, because festivals is eclectic, is especially in Europe, yeah, and if, and I'm like, Hey, I'm on a festival, it's eclectic. Maybe it is Cannibal Corpse or whoever, or I don't even know who, and and skillet, and, of course, I'll share the stage with anybody. Totally fine. But if we were going to do a joint tour and that band was avidly an antichrist band, then I would say, Yeah, I just don't think this is going to be a good mesh. I don't even think the fans are going to be a good mesh. But I think that that's the difference between skillet. We are a Christian band, but we are not anti anybody. You know. We're not anti non Christians or anti Muslim or anti fill in the blank. We're not anti anything. I'm just pro I'm just pro Christian, and I'm pro freedom, and I'm I'm pro freedom of choice, and I'm pro freedom of religion, and I'm even pro freedom for people to say I don't want to have religion, I'm pro that too. That's decisions up to you, man. Well, yeah, and do you think some people, they might just like skill they just like the music, and they like to sing along, and they don't really think much about what the lyrics mean, and all that. Of course, of course, that's right, absolutely. I mean, that's what music is. And so that's why you come to a skill, all right, a if you just listen to skill at music, you you may pick up on religious references or spirituality in general. And if you're real, real deep into the lyrics, you might go, oh, it almost sounds a little bit Christian. I mean, people said that about creed Evanescence, Kansas, if you if for any fans that go all the way back to Kansas, I'm a big Kansas fan, and bands like that, because they had these, they just had spiritual messages, right? And it's not necessarily Christian, but it kind of sounds like it might be. You'll pick up on that, but you're not going to listen to a skillet album and feel preached to or feel excluded in any way, because it's not that's not what skill it's about. Skillet is about making music that uplifts people, no matter who you are, no matter what you believe. It gives you hope. It gives you something to listen to in the gym so you can pump more iron or run farther, or whatever it is that you do in the gym and get you all pumped up, gets you through a bad day, helps you with your depression, etc, something you can listen to with your kids in the car. We get that a lot, and that might be one of the reasons skill is fan base is still growing. Tons of families now come to skill as shows dads and their kids, dads and sons, because skill is something they can listen to together that doesn't have the F word in it, you know, or something of that nature. It's, it's family, you know, it's like the PG version or of rock and roll. And they like that. And so we're really good for family, you know, family fun, entertainment. And if you come to a skill of show, I.

Unknown: 25:00

A

John Cooper: 25:01

I may say something I believe in about my faith in Jesus, but it's not proselytizing, and it's very open. Music speaks to everybody, and I want my lyrics to be like that. So if I sing, we have a song called Hero. That was a big song for us. If I sing the song hero, if somebody asked me what it's about, I say, oh, that's about my Jesus. Jesus Christ is my number one hero. I've got other heroes too. MLK, I've got lots of heroes. He's my main one. Somebody else may hear that song and say, Man, that song hero. That's about my dad. You know what? I mean, that's about my fill in the blank. And I think that that's a really great thing. We have lots of songs on the new record like that. You know, we have the song that we release already called all that matters. All that matters is the same way it everybody's going to hear that song, and it's going to mean something different that to them. To me, it's a patriotic song. It's about standing up for freedom, standing up for for the flag, standing up for my right to assemble, my right to free speech, my right to worship God the way I want to, without government recriminations. And also standing up for my family. It's it's also, in a certain way, thanking military service personnel for for giving us those rises, all these kind of things to me. But there's not a person in America that won't relate to that song in some kind of a way. And I think that's the magic of music. No, I agree. I mean, that's what's so cool, I think, for most music, anyways, is it can bring people together from all sorts of different backgrounds. I mean, even a band such as yourselves that is considered, quote, unquote Christian rock. I mean, you're saying you want everyone to come to your show. You don't only want Christian rock fans to come. Oh, absolutely. In fact, I do not want only Christian fans coming. No, no, okay. Uh, whether it's from Paramore recently, um, or even pink a couple of years ago, pink, I think hers was more to do with, uh, the pro choice issue, if I remember correctly, I don't want anybody if you're if you're pro if you're pro life. I think she said to Fu, stop listening to my music. I want everybody to listen to my music. So I got asked recently it made some of the the celebrity music news, which I think some people didn't like what I had to say, which I think is absolutely ridiculous, and I stand behind it. They asked me, am I fine if, if a political candidate wants to use my song, right? I said, Of course, I'm fine. If I don't. I believe in America over party. I don't care who it is, yeah, use my I find it flattering for one thing, but I believe in American values, and so if you went to fill in the blank, I don't care who it is, what side and a skillet song came on, I'd be like, That's awesome. And if I disagree with that person's politics, I have a little thing called social media. All I gotta do is say, hey, totally flattered. Totally flowered this flatter that so and so use my song doesn't mean that I'm supporting them, but I'm flattered that they use my song. You go make your own decision. What's wrong with that? So anyway, I don't like this whole don't come to my show if you're not just like me. And once again, I think it's ironic, because I think it really shows that a band like skillet, I guess I'm patting myself on my back, which I didn't mean to be, but I think we're, we're far more tolerant than what you're actually seeing from certain corners of the music industry. Yes, we're a Christian band. I've always been open about that. I don't want to play to just Christians. I tour with people that are general usually they don't believe the same way I believe. Who cares? Rock and roll plays a rock music. Yeah, that's so interesting. That's like, because it seems so against the stereotype of Christians, that they they're racist and that they they hate gay people and all this. And then I'm always like, thinking too, like, I mean, I'm not Christian, but I and I went to all the Bible camps and church and all that stuff. And I just remember learning about Jesus, like, you know, welcoming the lepers and the prostitutes and all this and, like, I mean, he was like, he loved everybody. It wasn't as a whole message, yeah, it's kind of funny. It to me, there's been sort of a shift. And certainly, certainly, a lot of people that grew up in church would have experience like you just said, I would have that experience too. I have met people who say, well, actually, my experience was terrible. I they were bigoted and they were hateful and they they yelled at people. And I go, Oh, that wasn't my experience. So that's out there, right? And that's very sort of like fundamentalist, I guess, and and, sure, but what I'm finding now is like an inverse. It's being flipped on its head to where a lot of people that grew up in church, as you just said, like myself, are going well, yeah, but we're supposed to love people that hate us. So I talked earlier, if I'm going into the. Town and somebody's kicking me off of the bill because of my Christian beliefs. Yeah, I'm upset about that, but I don't I don't hate those people for doing it. I don't go on social media and tell them to go, F themselves. And I don't do that because I'm supposed to love them. And I go, Oh, that that's where they stand. And they got to live their life, and I'm going to live mine, you know, live and let live. So it's kind of being turned on its head, where I'm finding that a lot of Christian people, again, this is my experience. People watching may have a different one. Leave a comment, no problem. I'm finding a lot of Christian people being very open minded, very tolerant, doesn't mean they agree with what you're saying, as I said earlier, but willing to be friends. And what I'm finding is that there is a lot on in certain corners, certainly not everybody, by any means, in certain corners of people that are wanting to now become sort of like secular fundamentalist. They're they're fundamentalists, like like the old Bible beaters, but instead, they're beating you over the head with like progressivism, or like Marxism, or, you know, or critical race theory, or whatever it may be, and you're getting beat up. And they're sort of like, Hey, if you don't agree, not only do I disagree with you, I hate you, and I don't want to ever see you again, because you are the filth of the earth. And I just think that it's poison. I think, I think it's really, really not good. Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of that. It that is almost like, you're right, that's almost like its own religion, atheism. I feel like can be its own religion. I mean, even, like, if you look at a thing, like a lighter example, be like CrossFit, like people that are really get into CrossFit, remember, that was a big phase, like, everyone's like, I mean, that was like a religion, like they're convincing everyone to try to do it. And I don't think people like to be forced into something. I think of it more like, you know, if you have this thing that you're doing, if it's Christian church, and you guys are just, you know, you're really happy, you're having a lot of fun, then that makes more people go, Oh, what are you guys doing over here, this, this looks like fun over here, these people say, I can't say these words, and I can't do this like this party isn't as fun. I want to go to that party that looks like it's more fun. Yeah, it's really hilarious that you say the CrossFit thing. Have you ever, have you ever heard people say, I'm sure you've heard this, but they always say that CrossFit only has two rules, and they're the opposite rules of Fight Club. You have to talk about fight across that? Yeah, exactly. It's so funny, but, but it really is true. I mean, here's the thing, see, I mean, you open, open up the door, yeah, I mean the whole message of Christianity, and we're not time to get in, the whole thing, and I'm not gonna, I'm not even gonna proselytize. I'm only saying the reason is different, the whole, the whole message of Christianity, as I've understood it, is that we are all sinners. We all do bad stuff. We all miss it. We all treated our spouses terribly. If you have kids, you've probably treated your kids not great a few times. If you're anything like me, you've probably been kind of a douchebag at times, and you've probably lied to people, you probably cheated people. We all mess up. And so there's a measure of grace that you need to give to someone else and forgiveness. Because rather than say, Well, I'm a really good person and you're a piece of trash, you go, Well, I'm also a piece of trash. So there's that expectation that we forgive people because of that, but we also forgive people because Jesus forgave us. That's the whole message. Again, I'm not trying to preach. I'm just saying that's the message. And so Christianity is sort of like, Hey, you will never be a good enough person to earn God's love ever, and you cannot earn God's love. There's the message he gives you his love for free. It's actually kind of amazing. You don't have to earn it. You don't have to do do all the right so you don't have to get straight A's, you don't have to have the right job. You don't have to have the right social media post. He gives you his love for free to who will accept it, and because of that love, we, in turn, begin to give people love when they are yelling at us online and saying, You're a piece of trash and I hope you die. You don't respond in kind. You pray for your enemies. And it's actually a really beautiful message that used to be, you know, you talking about, talking about, like, people that are atheists, like, sorry, that used to be the message that used to be the bulwark of American society. Whether people were actually Christians or not, or religious or not, there's kind of an understanding that we all are sinners, and we all need to treat one another in a certain way, because none of us does, none of us is perfect, and I think we've lost that, and I think it really brings a lot of vitriol, and I think it brings a lot of depression as well. There's a certain amount of peace that comes when you when you admit to yourself to other people. Yeah, I act like a douchebag, and I don't want to be a douchebag, but I do act like.

Unknown: 35:00

That a lot, and maybe I need to have a little bit of understanding for someone else. That's good, that'll give you some good, better mental health. There's a little tidbit for you. Yeah, no, that makes sense. You're right. And I think we build people up to these perfect standards that they can never live up to, and then that's why you see so many people fall I mean, like, look at like Diddy. You know, he was beloved, you know, for so long, and then now all this stuff's coming out. And, I mean, you talk about sin, I mean, he's full on breaking the law, and he's in prison and done all sorts of bad stuff. So, oh, man, it's honestly and I think this is a, this is also a, just a philosophical conversation.

John Cooper: 35:40

I think that part of what has happened, as we have then say again, this is philosophical. This is not meant to be a preaching thing. So philosophically, if you turn your eyes away from there being some sort of spiritual realm, or even archetypes, if you want to talk about it in that way, that there are, that there is some sort of otherworldly perfection that we want to emulate. Okay, if you turn your eyes away from that, all that you are left with is the material world, and what it ends up doing is we. That means that I need to find perfection somehow. And I think that that has led to this terrible, terrible thing in politics, where people are idolizing Trump, that he's going to be a god, he's going to save the whole world, if you just vote for Trump. We saw the same thing with Obama, and in a lot of ways, I think we're seeing the same thing now with Harris, the people on that side say she's the Savior of the world, and the people on this side say he's going to be the savior of it all. And that's why I keep telling people, look, I love politics. I'll talk about politics all day long. I love it. Actually, I'm kind of a political junkie. It's one of my favorite past time. Well, I love political philosophy, but these people can't save us. These people are so messed up. All of our celebrities are messed up, as you said, yet they're they're not just doing bad stuff. They're doing criminal stuff. You got my favorite singer of all time yelling at anybody voting for Trump, saying they're not allowed to go to his concerts. We cannot look to other humans for perfection. They're going to let you down. John Cooper's going to let you down. Skill that's going to let you down. Find something else to emulate. Find something that is deeper in your life. I don't know what that is for you. Maybe it is religion, maybe it's something else, but find something that is deeper, knowing that you can never be perfect, and I wouldn't mind tying this into the title track of my album, if I can do that, yeah, revolution. Yeah, that's what. That's the name of the record, revolution. And I keep telling people, I want to be clear, this is not about a political revolution. Politics can't save America. I love politics can't save America. It is certainly not a military militaristic revolution. It's nothing like that. It's not about burning down America either. It's about a revolution of love. It's about a spiritual revolution. It's about recognizing that we are so our culture has become so hateful that we are burning each other to the ground, and our kids are being raised in such a volatile time that they are depressed. We have the highest rates of suicide, teen suicide in American recorded history, the highest levels of depression in young people. We have an epidemic of loneliness. I think it was, was it last year that the Biden administration announced an official medical crisis, an epidemic of loneliness. I can't remember the the Surgeon General's name, but that was just last year. I believe we're in a really bad, bad position. And this thing about revolution is saying we need a revolution of love. It is a spiritual revolution. Is a revolution about coming back to things that we all can agree on, to how I know how to treat my neighbor with some sort of respect and get rid of this vitriol. It's okay to disagree, but what can we do to love one another? And that might sound cheesy to some people, I think that when you have kids, it sounds less cheesy because you see how these kids are suffering, how they're being yelled at on social media, how they're coming home feeling bull. It used to be that you're bullied at school, then you come home and you got a safe place for the night. Not anymore, you're bullied at school and you're bullied all night long. I'm cyber bullying. You come back to school the next day and all this pack of kids has all been talking about you, and your kid goes into depression. It's when you have kids, you realize that this really isn't cheesy. That is the overarching message of the whole album. And I hope that people take it hard. I hope it means something to them. Yeah. I mean, I agree. I do think there is kind of a little bit of a revolution going online that I'm seeing. Maybe it's just my algorithm, but and not necessarily political or.

Chuck Shute: 40:00

Spiritually. And I think it's just like getting back more to the, like you said, kind of the basics, like in your song, all that matters, faith, family and freedom, but but just, I think also, like you said earlier about the politicians, like expecting to save us, kind of realizing maybe that's not going to happen. Like we kind of need to save ourselves. And I think that a lot of that starts with becoming more self sufficient, taking care of ourselves, eating better, you know, working out maybe less social media or less

John Cooper: 40:27

TV and all that, the garbage that got media that goes out there, because there's a lot of negative things. I think that's why a lot of kids are so depressed, dude, 100% I wish I had said all of that. So everybody listening, I agree with all of that. It really is and and the whole self sufficiency idea, to even get back into it. I mean, that is the spirit of America. That's how this country started. It was not about needing some sort of Savior class. That's the opposite. We were going away from the idea of us of of some sort of Savior class, the king is above everybody. And say, No, this, this is about this is about self sufficiency, the the right of protecting your right to chart your own course, to get the government out of your life, to not look for those saviors that I am, I'm, I steer this ship, and me, and me and my family, this is all us up in here. I tell you what I am excited about because I do agree with you. Online, there is a lot of this happening, and I think that there's a lot of of In other words, there are a lot of people of faith involved in these movements, and they're crossing into a lot of other people that are like, Well, I'm not really a person of faith, but I kind of agree with these principles. They're just, they're just bedrock American principles. And the reason is, is it's pretty tough to you really can't disentangle Judeo Christian ethics from American principles, meaning these ideas of self sufficiency, all men are created equal, and God given or inalienable rights. However, you prefer to say that you really can't, kind of like disentangle those things. One of the things I am excited about is that there is a coalition coming together of a lot of different kinds of people that disagree on a ton of different things, but they are coming together, saying we need to take this back. You know, like, for instance, I'm conservative. Everybody that follows me knows that, but I've always loved ever since 2018 I started going, I really like this RFK guy. We disagree about a lot of stuff, but this RFK guys, this guy's got some Kahunas. I mean, this guy stand. He will stand against a tank. And I really like this guy, and I like this coalition that's happening with the sort of, um, I think now that I've heard it called Maha movement, make America healthy again. Yeah, I like this, make America healthy again, because they're right. We are. Our food supply is poisoning kids. We we know that we see it the right for informed consent, for the government not to just be giving these pills out to people and or the in the jabs, or whatever it may be for people to chart their own course when it comes to this. And now I know we're going down the two, but you have the MaHA movement. You've got the libertarian crowd which is just going, Hey, I just want government out of my life. You've got a lot of the religious people that are saying, Yeah, I want government out of my life so that I can worship their way all out of worship. I'm seeing a lot of things coming, but what it says to me is a return to the values of America. They those are the values that we started on. I personally think that those are fantastic values, and I would 100% support whatever this coalition is. Yeah, no, I agree with you about, I know RFK, there's, there's some interesting stories that have been going around lately about, you know, now he's having an affair and all this other stuff, but I think a lot of the things that he talks about with healthy food and the pharmaceutical companies, and he's an environmental lawyer, and he wants to, you know, he's, he's fought, uh, companies that have harmed the environment, and he's done a lot of good things and, and that's part of government that I would like to be taking care of those kinds of things. So I don't have to worry about that, right? Yeah, yes. Again, lots and lots. Please don't hear me say that I was voting for RFK, but I will say I like, I like a lot of these out of the box thinkers, and I think that they're, I think they're really doing some good, you know, and even somebody that's become a real villain in our time is Elon Musk. And I, I just thank God for Elon Musk again. I'm a free speech absolutist nearly. And I think a lot of these out of the box thinkers are doing some I think it's it's rattling things up. And I think that that's good, because it's making us go, Okay, we're. What are the bedrock principles that we that we need to go back down to? I mean, wouldn't it be great if we could go, take a take a time machine, and go back 20 years and remember the days when all the people in America were like fighting about was tax policy? I mean, I would love it. Can we please argue about tax policy again, rather than losing family over politics? That is the saddest thing. It just makes politics boring again, that that would be my slogan. I mean, I was a kid. I didn't care about politics. When I was in my 20s and most of my 30s, I didn't pay attention. I was like, I didn't feel like I needed to until the when people started wanting to kill each other over rolls of toilet paper. That's when I started going, Oh, maybe I need to, like, pay attention to what some there's some weird stuff going. Then you go down the rabbit hole, and you're like, Oh, my God, there's a lot of corruption going on. Yes, we have a similar story. 2020. Was also I was like, I can't believe I got to speak out about this. Are you serious? I'm in a rock band, yeah, you know. But, and just so people listening might not know, I've lived for 26 years in Kenosha, Wisconsin, so, yeah, I heard you talking about the Kyle Rittenhouse thing or whatever. Oh, yeah, I can see it from my house, alright. I can see the street from my house where Kyle Rittenhouse shot people there. People were threatening to burn down my neighborhood where I live, threatening my house it, it was a wake up I'd already had a wake up call because of some of the similar things you said, toilet paper, all the crazy stuff happening. And I was just like, I don't see how I cannot say like I don't want to get political, but we are talking about threatening my family here, and the police aren't doing anything about it. At the time Trump had president. He was president the time, of course, President Trump had offered to send the National Guard in, our governor said no, and instead they just to just burn the city down. It was absolutely tragic. And so again, I've never publicly endorsed the candidate. I am conservative. I've never done that because that's not really what I want to do, but, but I do enjoy talking about these moral principles and encouraging people to stand on what you believe and to find a way that we can get back to true tolerance, but you have to unify around something. What are those principles? And I don't know. I think 1776 is pretty dang good. Yeah. I mean, it's like, there's a reason everyone wants to come to this country. I mean, it's freedom. I mean, like I said earlier, it's like, you look at different organizations like which, where do you want to go? I mean, people want to come here because they have more freedom and and we used to get along a lot better, too. And that's, that's what's sad to see. I wish we could all just find common ground on those principles. Absolutely, it is a great, great country live in, and I've traveled the world with skillet touring. And I've been to we toured Russia 12 times, obviously prior to the war going on, which I assume means I may never, ever go back to Russia. It's sad. I love Russia. I love the people in Russia, but when I first went, was a wake up call first, when in 2011 I believe, and I didn't know I, I, I grew up in the Cold War, so I knew a lot of stuff. I'd never seen it. It's different when you see it. And when I went and to see what that country had done to their people. And of course, you know, wasn't even communists anymore, but it's obviously extremely corrupt, but, but it wasn't as bad as it used to be. No infrastructure. People are absolutely desperately poor. As an individual, you you don't matter. There is no way to climb up the ladder of success. I was, I was shocked. And I remember thinking if, if Americans that think Socialism is good, they need to come over. They just need to go to Russia for for four days. Come to Russia for four days and and see what, see what happened. It will blow your mind. It will absolutely blow your mind. South America. I go to her, South America, the corruption is so absolutely unbelievable. You will not believe it. And it made me far more patriotic than I'd ever been. It made me far more thankful, because living in America, life is just so dang good. All you got to do is sit around and point out all the bad stuff. Well, I don't like how we do this and this and this and again. I think that comes from a wrong understanding of like, perfectionism. Of course, it's nothing's. Perfect. So you got to know, of course, it's not going to be perfect, but if you want to see some real corruption, you go to one of these communist countries, or something that's formerly communist and still has that, all that element of corruption in it. I'll tell you what, man, it will change their mind overnight.

Chuck Shute: 50:18

Yeah. I mean, even just you go to Mexico and Mexico, I love going to Mexico. Go there all the time, but I mean, you see the poverty, and we're starting to have that here. I think that's what's also waking up a lot of people, is that you're seeing a lot of problems here in America, like with homelessness and stuff and drugs, people addicted to drugs and homeless, and you're seeing more and more of that, it's starting to feel like it's not the America we grew up in. Maybe that's controversial thing to say. I don't know, but

John Cooper: 50:49

I don't know if it's controversial or not, but it's true. It's 100% true. And again, I think this comes down to philosophy principles. You know it if people think that you're you're helping people by allowing it, you're not, you're not, you're not helping the people that are homeless. You're not helping the people that are strung out on drugs. And then they started making these centers where you can go in and shoot up. You know, I don't know if you've seen that, I think they have one in New York City now, one Portland, I believe, where you can go in, they'll provide you a clean place and provide the needles. And they are not helping people, and you're enabling them, is what? Oh, yeah, I understand it. Absolutely enabling. You're not helping people. All you're doing is ruining their lives. You're ruining the lives of the people around them, all you're doing is burning down civilization, but the people in charge don't care, because the it's never going to affect them, and that's fine with them, as long as they're in charge and they're in the upper class, they really don't care, because that's their worldview. Their worldview is that there should be, there should be a class of people that are experts, and they are so much above the rest of us, they just need to be at the top. And as long as they manage all of our lives, and they give us enough fake food and fake happiness and fake drugs, and you know, I'm sorry, fake happiness via drugs, pornography, sex, whatever it is that they're giving us, as long as they can keep us numb and moderately entertained, then they can stay in charge, and they can live the good life and have their money and go to their parties and rule the world. And that is just that is where we're at, and that's where we're headed, in my opinion. Yeah, it's scary meme, because I just, I mean, I'm doing, I think I'm doing okay for myself, but I care about other people. I know that's a crazy idea, a crazy thought that, you know I want, I want everyone else to do well too. I mean, I want myself to do better also. I think that. But I think if we could all help each other out, I feel like that would would make things a lot better. And again, I go back to, I don't think it's necessarily the government that's going to come in and save us. Like, look at like Hurricane Katrina. Wasn't it? Like the church that came in and saved a lot of the people with the supply government was like, trying to fill out a form or something, and the church just came in and had supplies ready. Absolutely that you are correct about that, and that is historically, that is historically what the Christian church has done. You know, that's not to say that Christians don't do terrible things. Of course, they do people, let people, we all let each other down, and the Church throughout the ages, of course, has had huge mistakes, but there's also a lot of good and a lot of people don't understand that. All of the first schools were started by Christians. All the colleges were started by Christians. The other Puritans always get a bad rap because of the the witch trials and but they don't understand that the Puritans are actually the the Puritans started, you know, Stanford and Harvard and they started schools. They started all the hospitals. That's why, when you go to hospitals, it's like so and so Presbyterian Hospital, so and so Methodist Hospital. They were Christian churches because Christians are the ones that did social justice, because they believed they were supposed to help your fellow brother and your fellow sister, no matter if they're Christians or not, if they're human beings, they're born in the image of God, and you're supposed to help them. That's the Christian way. So certainly, Christians do that. I here's what's really sad is that the founders believed, as did the Puritans, that the free life, true freedom, even their idea of the pursuit of happiness, as I have understood it, reading the founding fathers, the pursuit of happiness isn't for you just to be like I just to be like, I just do anything in the whole world I want to do and be homeless and strung out on the side of the street, you know, relieving myself in your front lawn. That wasn't their idea of pursuit of happiness. You know, no pursuit of happiness was your right to. Work your own land, to chart your own to make your own business, to have a family business that you start in your house, and to sell in a free way, or to trade in a free way, in whatever way that you want to do it. True freedom is not never having to work. True freedom is working and taking care of yourself, taking care of your family, contributing to society. What we have now is a real sick, a real sickness going on that's like, hey, true freedom is going to be nobody ever works, and we're looking for the government to come give us a clean place, to give me a needle and maybe even give me the drugs to do it in a safe way, so it'll hurt myself. And so what we actually have is a reversal of the American project to where, once again, we are somehow dependent upon, you know, feudal lords or something, to allow us to do A, B and C. And it's just so absolutely terrible. Plus it's killing people, these people, these homeless people in the street, their lifespans are not very long because they're, they're literally killing themselves. And it's just, it's not true freedom, and it's, it's it. I just, I personally believe, if you really love people, and if you really cared for people, you would not allow what is going on, because it just, it just leads to the absolute breakdown of civilization.

Chuck Shute: 56:25

Yeah, I mean, I just, I do so many of these interviews, and so many musicians, they go through that path, or they go on the drug thing, and then they get sober, and then, you know, so it's like, I don't know if that many people are going to be going through that path now if, like you said, I mean, they're going to die, they're not going to be able to get a chance to get sober.

John Cooper: 56:44

Yeah, that's right, I It's, I don't know what the answer is, because I'm not. I am. Some people are gifted at going, Okay, here's a problem, here's how we deal with it. And they had this kind of brain, you know, CEOs and they, they create new networks, and they create these things, and that is not something that I'm good at, and that's fine, but the the philosophy side of it, I do understand. And you see where that, where that ends, you know, you see where that to me, I think it just comes down to this philosophy of what the definition of freedom actually is. And that's also why, even in our politics today, you can have you can have Donald Trump and Kamala Harris say this same exact sentence about freedom, and if you just saw it written down, you'd agree with both both sentences. But depending on your political philosophy, depends on what you think that sentence means. And so this idea of freedom is a is actually a really big deal. And again, as I had understood American freedom, certainly, I know that I understand Christian theology's version of freedom, but I think that America's idea of freedom is not very far from, again, Christianity because, because the reformers and the Puritans were so involved in the American project even influenced people like Thomas Jefferson who were not Christians, perhaps, right, so but, but the Puritans certainly affected Jefferson and people like that. And the idea of Christian freedom is it was not the freedom to do literally anything that you want to do. It was freedom to pursue, to pursue virtue and and so just living your life strung out on the street, hurting yourself and possibly hurting others, that's not freedom. That is a form of soul slavery, and plus, you're hurting the people around you as well, which is freedom is also why we blew you. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. I mean, yes. That's a nice way to Yes, the Yeah, that has been the Catholic understanding of freedom for literally centuries. Okay, we're 1800 years, or however long the Catholicism has been around. I forget. Maybe it's more like 1400 freedom to freedom to pursue, pursue virtue. Oh, I forgot. Was gonna say, but yes, I think that that's a that's a good way to say it, because otherwise you're, you're just you're, it's the same reason that we don't. I mean, some states do, perhaps now I can't remember where we're at right now in America, but it's the same reason that, historically, suicide is actually illegal. You know, you don't have the right to just kill yourself. You may end up doing it, but you don't have the legal right to do it, euthanasia. I know that some states starting to be a hot topic right now with the youth. There was just some suicide pod story I saw in Switzerland or something that That's right, but yeah, well, there are countries in Europe that that are changed those rules a while back Canada, Canada has very progressive rules on. Euthanasia and things they even are now in some instances, uh, Canada, if I, if I've, if I'm getting my story right, everybody do your own research. Go check my check my work. But I believe that Canada has also legalized state assisted suicide, even for things like depression. Yeah. Now, totally scary. It's very scary. And again, it comes down to what your definition of freedom is. Should you have the freedom to do that? Or is freedom mean to pursue virtue and having the freedom to protect life? Then you're getting into some very big philosophical differences. I obviously believe in the freedom to pursue life. I do not think that we should have the right to take your life. I think that you're that's also an issue for me, of of Catholic theology and Christian theology, that you are actually you don't have the right to make that decision. It's outside of your purview. That's that's the supreme beings, right? He decides how long you live. He decides in what way you will go. We cannot make that we are usurping the realm of our God ordained authority to do something like that. But at the end of the day, certainly using taxpayer money to fund the assisted suicide of depressed teenagers is absolutely god forsaken. I can't, I cannot believe the Western civilization is falling that fast. But we are, yeah, that scares me, especially seeing the depression rates rising up so much in the youth. I mean, so many teenagers are depressed now or suffering some sort of mental illness. And it's, it's concerning, for sure. I don't know that we have the solution yet, but we definitely need to look at that problem. You know, I just read there's something you might be interested in called Barna. Are you familiar with Barna Research? It's B, A, R, N, A, yeah. Barna Research is really good. It's probably more popular in in sort of religious circles, I would assume, but it's a really good research outlet, in my opinion. I just read this morning research that where they show that a lack of a Christian worldview is is part of what's responsible for this super high rate of depression and suicide among young people, amongst young people. The interesting thing about this is that I think, for instance, you were mentioned an hour ago, Charles Dawkins, I believe or Dawkins, you mentioned the atheist, right? Did you mention? No, no, no. I'm sorry. You were talking about something about atheism. And in my mind, I was thinking of Dawkins. Excuse me, because remember Dawkins, who is an atheist. I don't know if you saw about six months ago, he came out on a podcast, and he said, I am a cultural Christian, but I am an atheist. He said, I do not believe in God, but I do believe in the culture of Christianity, meaning, meaning, he said, you know, at Christmas time, I want to hear songs that had to do with with I want to go into a church and hear Christmas songs. That's what he's saying. I like the golden rule, treat, treat, treat others as you would treat yourself. He's basically saying, I like the world that Christianity created. I just don't actually believe in the religious aspects of Jesus being the Son of God, I think that that's a really remarkable point. Because, in my opinion, and this is what the Barna Research was suggesting as well, the Christian worldview gives you a real grounding. And again, we used to just call that an American worldview. Okay, so you didn't mean you have to believe in the spiritual aspects, but you still believe in things like this. There is absolute truth, there is right and wrong. We may not perfectly know what right and wrong is, but it does exist, and we're doing our very best to know what those things are. And so therefore we all have these things in common. Those are things. Those are called inalienable rights that the government does not have the right to trample. The government's one job is to protect your inalienable rights, not there to give you stuff. It's there to protect what God, what this supreme being, gave you, and because of that, you treat your neighbor as as you treat yourself. And so if you want the right to free speech, then you give your neighbor the right to free speech, and so on and so on and so on. That is a very grounding worldview. And if you take that away, and instead, you say, there is no such thing as truth. All there is is your truth and my truth and her truth, and a truth through a woman's eyes, and the truth through a minority's eyes and the truth through an immigrant's eyes. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all of a sudden, none of us agree on reality, and nobody knows how to act towards one another. So that's my personal opinion about the depression thing, and it is sad because we are giving. Young people, we're not giving them much reason to live. They are depressed because they have no peace, because they can't get along with anybody, and they don't know where they belong in the world. It makes me so sad. It's one of the things I feel most passionate about in my life, is young people struggling with depression. I've written 10 songs about it. I talked about it for the last 20 years. I just, I can't stand it. And there's also my skill that has always done so much work with suicide hotlines and mental health. We've done tons of partnerships for those things, because it really means something to me. Oh, that's really cool to hear. I love to hear those kinds of things, like with someone in you know, how's your platform that can use it in a positive way? I love that. Absolutely, we got to do it, man. We got to help these young people the best we can. And pretty soon, they'll be in charge, and we'll be too old. We need them to do a decent job. Yeah, absolutely, well, and then you, I mean, you must hear stories from fans that reached out to you and said that your music has helped them. Oh gosh, yeah, my my manager emailed me this morning see. If I need to find this email, I'll read you this one. He just emailed me this morning. He says, he says, bro, so many of these. And I'm really let's I didn't even have time to read it yet because I was jumping on this interview, so I'm reading it for the first time right here. I just want to say your music literally saved my life. I had every intention to kill myself. Something told me to listen to my favorite music on my phone. Your song not gonna die. That's the name of one of our songs came on and it changed my life. Ironically, your song I want to live was next on the playlist. I believe God made that happen. He used you and your music to save my life. That's amazing. You can't make this stuff up. I've met 200 300 people like this and and that's not bragging on skillet music. I think that music is powerful. And I think that the things we say matter, no matter who you are or what you believe, everybody on planet Earth responds to music. It's universal all over the planet. So you can either put out something positive or you can put out something negative, put out something hateful or a message of love. And so I don't know that's what we've tried to do. And I'm thrilled when I hear that, that it helps. Yeah, that's amazing. I love to hear that. That's, that's great. I mean, that's, that's one thing that I feel like it is that we can come together on it. Common Ground is music. I mean, like I said, even if you're a Christian rock fan, if you just like rock. I mean, there should be tons of people at a skillet show from all backgrounds. I hope, oh, man, that's exactly why you don't go on and say, I don't want anybody that's voting for X, Y or Z, come to my show. No, no, no, yeah, don't you just want everyone to listen to your music, just like, financially Yes? Well, yeah, yes, it's also, it's also not super prudent, yeah, it's not financially prudent. But yes, everybody come to my show. And again, we have talked a lot about faith, but most of skillet fans are not, are not religious. I mean, the majority of skillet fans maybe they're spiritual, maybe they're not, I don't know, but it is not the case. Yeah, this 70% of skillet fans are, you know, church going Christians, that is just not true. And I meet people, they'll come up to me and they say really awesome things. They're hysterical. Somebody came to me the night and they said, Hey, bro, your music. I mean, look, I don't, I don't really get all the Jesus stuff, but your music makes me feel good, man. And I said, Good. Thanks for coming. That's why I'm here. Yeah, I love it come to the show. Yeah? Because, I mean, you guys have toured with like, tons of like, band, bringing Benjamin Papa Roach and all the shine down theory, all, all those bands, God smack. And, I mean, none of those bands are Christian bands, but they had you on the tour. And so, yeah, yeah, we're on tour with Cather as we speak. See there's great and cool people just having a great time. I mean, just having a great time. And I'm amazed when we tour with bands, how much we have in common. And we talk about raising kids, you know, we talk about life, and we talk about everything, and it's just, it's, I always say this sounds tongue in cheek, but I actually mean it. I remember we played at a festival a few months ago, and I said it on stage, and it just came to me, and I started laughing really hard on stage after I said it, I said, here's what we need to do. Because there's a bunch of people in Washington and big tech and all these they make a lot of money and a lot of power by trying to divide everybody. I believe that they they want us divided because they get power. And I said, You know what I want them to do? I want them to shut down Washington for a week. And I said, Because, really, who would even notice that? They're not doing anything, and he was ever fighting anyway, shut down Washington, and they all need to come to a skillet rock show. And you will see the best people in the country, the coolest people in the country. You'll see what actual Americans are like. And if you went around and polled them and said, Are you on the right? Are you the left? Are you spiritual? Are you religious? Are you this? Are you this? You would find the most diverse audience, and everybody has a good time. Everybody is singing, everybody loves each other. That's what needs to happen. Come see what rock shows are like. Rock and roll just might save America. I said it and I believe it. Yeah, I love it. And you guys are doing this rescue the Republic show. This looks like a star studded event. You got RFK that we mentioned, and Russell Brand and Tulsi. Get all those people that that are the politically they align with, with, with what you're standing for. Absolutely, I'm so excited about this rescue the Republic event again, because it's not partisan. I'm not saying I would never do a partisan event, or this or the other. Who knows that even the question why I was interested is because it's not partisan. What we're saying is, is what we've been talking about this whole time, what the what these people were saying, and when they asked me, Would you want to come on? And my thing was, I said, Look, is this a partisan thing? I can't go on, and that's just not what I want to do. To know it's not, it's about these fundamental principle, principles of like we said, how do we take our country back to go down to these principles? And they were. The ironic thing is, a lot of these people have been lifelong Democrats, too, so it is not like a right wing thing, as you just mentioned. So I'm kind of quite excited about, obviously you will have some people get mad. People get mad at everything. And so you just sometimes, if you feel there's something you got to take a stand on, you just do it. So I'm thrilled to be there. I can't remember offhand the seven principles that they are promoting, but they are things like freedom of speech to stop the censorship. This unholy alliance between certain presidential elections and big tech to to do the bidding of a political party is outrageous. Any political party censoring things when it comes to our health, you know, to pandemics or to vaccines or whatever it may be, they should not be doing that. We gotta revolt against that, because it hurts everybody. Right left center hurts everybody. Freedom of speech that informed consent. War. You know, this sort of like war is, is the very last thing, is there anything else that we can do? Have we done everything that we can do? Um, before we engage in war and those kind of things, I think these are really great principles. Doesn't mean I agree with everybody on stage about every little jot and tittle. That's not the point. It's about coming together, and that's also what my new record is about. So it was a good fit. That's awesome. Very cool. I'll let you get going. Oh, I just wanted to ask you real quick, though. I wanted to get your thoughts on what do you think of Lincoln Park replacing the singer with the new singer. The I forget her name. She's from.

Chuck Shute: 1:13:18

She's from another band. That's she's really great, but I don't know some people are really mad about that.

John Cooper: 1:13:25

You know what? I don't really, I will be honest to say, I don't really have an opinion. Um, probably the reason is, is because Lincoln Park, um, is one of my favorite bands of all time. Hybrid Theory is in my top 10 favorite rock albums ever, probably top seven, and I thought it was genius. And I'm still this might sound silly to people. I never met Chester, so we weren't friends. I never met him, as dumb as it sounds, I always thought me and Chester are going to eventually be good friends, because we have, we have so much of the same influences and fan base. We sing about the same things. I think me and him are cut from the same cloth. I just thought we're going to be buddies. And I'm still not over over his death. It still grieves me to this day. So for me, it's I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm just being honest with you. I don't care who they got for their lead singer. I'm not ready to move on yet, but I am happy for them that they are. They're doing something new, and they're trying something new, and I think that's cool. I think trying something out of the box, it could be a really good thing, but I don't really have an opinion on the route that they went yet, and I hope that that's not a cop out. That's just my honest answer. No, no, that's fine. Yeah, EMILY ARMSTRONG, that was her name from dead, Sarah, yeah, she's good. But yeah, I see there's some people that feel the same way, so kind of like Pantera, you know, they restarted that band with different members. And there's people that have opinions about that one too. So it's just the. It goes. You know, replacing a singer is really hard. There have been a few amazing times where it's happened and it's been brilliant. Of Van Halen probably is the first thing that comes to DC, too. Yeah, hey, oh my gosh, right. Um, every once in a while you strike gold. And I'm not saying that they haven't. I've got no opinion on that. It's very difficult to do, because if you're the singer, even if you're not writing the songs. Now, of course, Chester did take part in writing the songs, as far as I understand. But even if you don't write the songs, all the people listening to those songs identify with a singer, because he's the one singing the lyrics. And so you've got hundreds of millions of people all over the world who, when they think of Lincoln Park, they think of Chester gets me. Chester understands where I'm at. Chester, he would be my friend. If he only knew me, he'd be my friend. That sounds cheesy, but I'm telling you, I've met these people. That's what it's like when you're a fan. I thought Chester would like me. I thought we were going to be friends. So it's very hard, and what you what you gotta what we have to wait and see is if they create a new identity, that when people start hearing new Lincoln Park Music, do they do? They hear Emily and go, Emily gets me. She knows who I am, and I'm on her page. That's a very hard thing for a singer to do and but when people do it's it's a it's amazing. I'll tell you who does that. Funny enough, is the singer for Seether. We're touring with Cather. Seethers lyrics are like that. People connect with Sean. They go, he gets me. They did the same with Three Days Grace, Breaking Benjamin, fighting your death. Punch people. They connect with those singers. That's a hard person to replace. Man, it's hard. No, absolutely. Well, no one's replacing you. You got the new album. Revolution coming out, unpopular and all that matters. Those two songs are available now, and the whole album comes out November 1. I believe, yes, it does. November 1, please. People go check it out. I think that people know now, I think, more than we did a few years ago, that it is not easy to stand up for these kind of principles that we've been talking about so blatantly on the show, there will be people that will hate skillet, because we talked about it. And if you want more of it, you gotta support it. So go check out the music. Pre save it. Pre order it, tell your friends about it. Is one of the biggest things. And I, and I will do my best to keep putting out music to where, when you hear it, you say, John gets me. He's got my back, because we do. I love it. Yeah, I know on tour with cedar, and so I'll try to check that out. If you guys come to Phoenix, we are coming to Phoenix. Oh, cool. Uh, in like two weeks. Oh, Oh, awesome. Okay, well, help them around. I think it's Phoenix, or is it? What's the other city that's close to you? Tucson? I mean, that's like, two hours away, but

Unknown: 1:18:03

let's see,

John Cooper: 1:18:06

hold on one second. I'm just, I'm gonna let you know right about now I know, yeah, like, you don't tell me now I have to. It's like, I'll put the Mesa mesa. Oh, okay, Mesa Mesa, they got an amphitheater. We're playing it at the Mesa amphitheater. Yeah, cool. All right, I'll come check it out. If you come, you got to come backstage and say hello. Do not come and not say hello. Reach out to our people. They'll hook it with tickets and passes and whatever else you need. And, you know, bring whoever you want, and let's have a party. Okay? Thank you very generous. I'll see you then. Thank you, Brother, have a great one. I really appreciate the interview.

Chuck Shute: 1:18:43

You too. Thank you. I appreciate it too. I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

John Cooper: 1:18:47

You got it, bye, bye.