Chuck Shute Podcast

dUg Pinnick (Kings X)

January 19, 2022 dUg Pinnick Season 4 Episode 208
Chuck Shute Podcast
dUg Pinnick (Kings X)
Show Notes Transcript

Episode 208 - dUg Pinnick!!!  I sit down for a very candid conversation with dUg Pinnick (Kings X, KXM, Grinder Blues).  We discuss his opinions on the Beatles and Led Zeppelin, critical acclaim versus popularity of Kings X, tour stories of Motley Crue & AC/DC and much more! Things get deep and philosophical towards the end and I really enjoyed the conversation.  

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:30 - dUg's Early Life & Musical Influences 
0:03:54 - The Beatles 
0:08:10 - Led Zeppelin 
0:10:50 - Breaking Music Rules 
0:13:00 - Over My Head 
0:16:45 - Kerrang Album of the Year & Critical Acclaim 
0:20:50 - Popularity & Timing of the Band 
0:25:04 - Sam Taylor & Band Name 
0:28:28 - Rick Rubin & Brendan O'Brien
0:33:30 - New Kings X Record & Getting Older
0:39:40 - Tour with Motley Crue 
0:43:50 - Hanging with AC/DC 
0:49:03 - Song for Virtual Reality & Metaverse
0:54:22 - Division, Politics, & Laws 
1:00:02 - Religion & Spirituality
1:04:11 - Praying About Being Gay 
1:06:38 - Accepting Differences & Abuse of Religion 
1:09:50 - Getting Older & Becoming Happier 
1:14:34 - Health & Blood Tests 
1:17:20 - Upcoming Shows & Music 
1:19:05 - Compassion International 
1:20:22 - Wrap Up & Outro 

dUg Pinnick website:
https://www.dugnation.net

Compassion International website:
https://www.compassion.com

Chuck Shute website:
http://chuckshute.com

Support the show

Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Chuck Shute:

Hey, stick around. We have a great interview coming up with Doug pinic from King's X. He's got stories of hanging out with Angus Young and Brian Johnson of ACDC hanging out with Motley Crue. He talks about the old days with kings X, the new record and so, so much more. You're gonna love this. Don't go anywhere please welcome Doug pinic to the chuck shoe podcast. I do and Doug. Hey. Good, good. Good. Well, hey, I just wanted to first say that I just saw you posted today would have been your mom's birthday. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about that. Because I think you were raised by if I know the story, right. You were raised by your great was it your great grandmother, your grandma. Okay, great grandmother, great grandmother. She was a devout religious woman for like the first 14 years of your life you spent with her. And I think you did this right. Because she was, if I'm, if I'm guessing this right, if she was devout, religious, she was more strict. And I think kids kind of need that. And then when you're 14, now you get a little more freedom. You go live with your mom. So talk about the influence of both of them on your life.

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah, my mom, just she let me do whatever I wanted to. And I was always a good kid. Anyway, I never got in trouble. I never ran around with the bad kids or did drugs or anything like that. In fact, back then we didn't know what we was. You know, I remember my mom's boyfriend used to smoke it back in the 50s. But that's all I remember. I don't even remember how it smelled. And I remember my mom didn't like it, but she let him do it. And that's about it. And then later on me and her boyfriend start smoking together, and I got busted. Couldn't help 21. And then we stopped smoking. She got mad, and she blamed him for it. But, um, yeah, my great grandmother was so strict that I mean, she wouldn't let me go to my neighbor's house and play with him. Because she had heard his uncle had been in prison. I mean, it was like, you are just perfect. And everyone else, if anybody had any sin in their family, you had to be away from it. But I think she raised the whole family like that, too. And she, she's raised my mom like that, which is probably why, you know, I ended up being raised by my great grandma, because they actually took me from my mother when I was three, and they kicked her out. And so, so that was a, you know, that's a lot of history there. But when I finally got to move in with to announce 14, I remember that the music was what I loved the most, because I could listen to anything I wanted to. My great grandmother wouldn't only would only let me listen to gospel music. And so when I went to my uncles or aunts, or cousins or school or wherever I went, and someone was playing a different type of music, I drank it up, I sucked it up like it was, you know, it was a precious commodity for me, because I didn't have a radio to turn and hear the Beatles every five minutes. You know, I only remembered what I heard at my cousin's house when they bring home the BB King record or my aunt uncle's house, who would bring back the jazz records like Jimmy Smith and West Montgomery and, and Miles Davis and then go to my other cousin's house, we had teenagers and they'd be playing Chuck Berry and Little Richard all the time. So and then when I go to school, there was show music, and I was singing in the choir as a kid and, and in just pop music, Frank Sinatra and all that stuff, even down to Johnny Mathis, you know, so it was always music around me that I couldn't, I was not allowed to listen to unless I left the house and didn't tell my grandma. So I think it it, it meant more to me, maybe, you know, because it was something that I had to memorize the songs before I got home to remember exactly what went on, you know, because I might never see it or hear the song again. Mm hmm.

Chuck Shute:

Well, it's interesting. You mentioned the Beatles. And I thought this was really interesting, because I think a lot of people equate a lot of your music with The Beatles, because it's very melodic, like the Beatles. But you I heard you say that you didn't you're not a Beatles fan. You thought the Beatles were just a bunch of white boys trying to sound black?

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah, that's what most people in the black community felt that you know, really? Yeah. Because they were just playing songs that we had already been writing. You know, and it's true. They wanted to sound like, you know, the rock and roll in America. Chuck Berry, Lou, Richard. I mean, think about it, um, Palmer McCartney. And when he goes, ooh, that's a little Richard, he tells you that, you know, so for me at the time, I had already listened to all those bands that The Beatles were listening to. So when they came out, it didn't bring it to a full full circle for me because I was a black kid. It brought it to a full circle for all white kids. It was a new music they could identify with and I saw that, um, I remember that I never bought a Beatle record. Never sat down and really played a Beatles song. But I know them all. Why is that? Because the Beatles were everywhere. You just knew their songs. And there was great things that they put in their music, I mean, the harmonies and, and the just just the innovations that they did. I took those and put them into you know what I do? And with glue Richard and all those other people Led Zeppelin everybody else too. And so you hear a lot of Beatle influence in what I do. Time Jerry even said that I make up deal harmonies, but they just made sense to me for tying Jerry, on the other hand, they are complete Beatle fans, they are deals, number one to both of them. So the marriage between the three of us I think we got Beatle thing just had to come out? Yeah, no. So

Chuck Shute:

do you feel like the later Beatles, though, that they could because I hear what you're saying. Especially with the early Beatles. I mean, they sound very much like the chuck berries and stuff. But then they kind of evolved into the site with a Sergeant Pepper's and all that stuff. I feel like it was very different, wasn't it?

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah, it was different. But the songs except I hope I can say this without getting, you know, hating on. But there's songs to me with goofy, and Poppy. They were too pretty. And some other night game and they did add it was like going out listen to that shit. And when I listened to vaudeville in grade school, you know, and I just didn't see the coolness of it. I still don't when I put a Beatle record on just tried to listen to these songs pop up when I go. These are just to me. I didn't relate to their traditional maybe English songs or, you know, whatever you want to come up with. And they're great songs don't get me wrong worldwise progressing was my Paul McCartney knew how to put the little pieces together and make it real good. deti don't get me wrong. I think it was just there was no. The soul that I'm used to in black music was something that the white community hadn't really learned yet. Consumed music and singing like Aretha Franklin, that's not something that we're born with you learn it. That's why you got so many white people now freaking out saying black people because it took it took a few generations. You know and so that's what was a Beatles for me is if Paul McCartney had a little bit more so I would have listened to him and he almost he would get their clothes without go. No, he ain't there yet. What do you want? Oh, darling, please, I will never do you know, huh? I'm going okay. But then it was like that was it? I'm gonna come on give me some more. And it was back back to you know, the the soft stuff. So, you know, I'm a I'm a really super picky, picky, picky, picky musician to a fault. It's like, God, I hate everything. Unless it gives me goosebumps. And if it gives me goosebumps, I worship it. Okay, you know, and there's no in betweens for me.

Chuck Shute:

That's what makes music so great, though. Is it? Like I mean, there's some people that say the Beatles are the best band ever made. And you say you don't like them. I love that. I love the different opinions. So what was the band? When you first started listening to rock that really blew you away? That you said, Wow, this is this is it? This is the this What was your Beatles,

dUg Pinnick:

I was going to college this is 1970 69 or 70. And a friend of mine used to pick me up he used to drive all across town to pick me up because um, you know, I, you know, being in the 60s, black people were treated a little bit differently. And, and I had no way to get to college, and this guy was white boy would come pick me up and take me to school. And he went to school also and when he came by with this record, but Led Zeppelin Zeppelin too. And he said, Don't check this out. And I brought it in the house and I put it on. I don't know what side I put on first, but all I know is that hurt. And when it kicked in, the first thing I thought about was that reminds me of Booker T and the MGS. That's what I like about Booker T. The Steve Cropper and dunk donald duck would play the same riff together. And that's the first thing I heard then rather than start singing, and I'm going I'm thinking this and from that point on, I just like gravitated. They were like the Beatles to me. Because they experimented and went places that were into the dark places. The group places the the angry places that The Beatles didn't take me. I wasn't crazy about Robert plant's voice until later on in life. I just didn't feel like he had enough soul either. Paul Rogers was the guy that came along. He's the first white guy that I ever went, Okay, this guy went to the same school I went you know, and I know exactly where he got that ship from and I hate him because he's doing it better than I do. You know, and, and Paul Rogers I loved him because He gave me hope that I'm going okay, the white boys are getting it, you know. And then, you know, the early 70s came along and you had Ian Gillan from deep purple. And he could just go down the list of so many singers in rock music, even Ozzie, you know, think about the first couple of records to sing it straight up black blues, vocally. Yeah. And so it started that that trend started happening, which was really cool. And that was my generation. So I fit right in, you know, I get up and sing along with it. Yeah. Well, even Kansas, even Kansas, you know, Steve Walsh, let me think about the soul in his voice. But that was a first generation to me that the white boy started getting my attention.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, well, so. And I love that you talk about your college. And I heard you say in another interview that you went to college for that, and you took this music theory class. And the most important lesson you learned from this whole class. And then this was the end of college for you was just that the rules are meant to be broken for music. And that's all you needed to know. And so then you went out and you that gave you freedom to experiment and with different sounds

dUg Pinnick:

I tried to do is break rules. Now. I mean, it to me, it's like, why I like to break, I tried to break rules, because I'm not only I can, but I feel that people don't do that. And, you know, I you know, I just want to forge that thought, you know, when you sit down and write a song and stick on to where someone would normally go to any key change go to somewhere that no one would imagine you go into and make it work. Right? Because

Chuck Shute:

when I don't know musical Tech, I don't know how to say describe your music to people. But it sounds good to me. Like it doesn't sound off key or anything weird. Like I like it sounds like I said earlier melodic well, and then it has those hooks. But somehow it does sound like a little bit different. But still, like, like I said, in key and all those things.

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah, that's, that's the whole point. It's, I think, like, you know, I take music and bands, the sound of them is like when I'm talking to a person, you know, when if your if your friend says something to you across the room, and they call you, you know, that voice, their unique voice, and they learn to develop it as their own. That's how I believe songwriting in bands should be, they have a voice and all, each member, if he's allowed to speak his voice. As all members speak together, magic can happen. Greater than the individual is himself. Like Led Zeppelin, for instance, that's what I loved about them is like, all of them, just there was this thing that they created, that he just went, Wow, oh, my God, it's just like, how did they? How did they all get on the same page? You know, and that in those feelings that I wanted to emulate with the music that I write with kings x, or whoever I'm playing with?

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's exactly what you did. And with your guitars, Ty, and your drummer Jerry, you guys came together and made this amazing, nice. I mean, I think like, one of the best examples of and I don't know if you still like this song, but for me, over my head, like that's just such a masterpiece. And it's like, who came up with that riff? Did you come up with a refer to Ty come up with a guitar riff?

dUg Pinnick:

I wrote that song about a 1986. A friend of mine loaned me his his four track and he had a Mattel drum machine where you beat it. And I went. And I recorded that. And then the riff, I just played the riff on guitar. And then I thought to myself, well, I don't want to play my bass with the same thing. And so I made a different baseline up with it. Usually, I don't do that. And this time I did it. And, and then I remember Lenny Kravitz, you know, let love rule. I think that I don't know if that had come out yet. But I remember there was something about that song that made me think about a chorus that doesn't go up goes down. Because remember, I let love rule. When he got to the chorus. He builds you up and he goes in, it's like, there's no, it didn't push it brought it back down. And it was like so different than any other song I've ever heard. Because, you know, you have to lift it lifted, lifted, and then you kill it with the course then you bring it back down. He did the opposite. So I thought I would do that on over my head. After I wrote the song all the way through. I mean, I went the whole progression of the song, that's the church thing at the end and the whole thing I made my little demo of it, and I hid it because I thought it sucked. And when we were doing, Gretchen, I think it was Sam said, Okay, this is your sophomore record. I want to hear everything you guys have ever written because this is important. We cannot have the sophomore slump, because we had such good response on the first hour. And so we pull out every song. And I remember I was playing my little tape and demos. And I got to over my head. And it started out the day and I stopped it. I got up. And I started to fast forward. And I said that song sucks, don't even worry about it. And they said, No, we want to hear it. And I ran back and play it for him. And they all loved it. And that's why we did it. And to this day, it's I don't get I don't get it. But I'm glad I don't hate the song. Don't get me wrong song at all. I just didn't. I didn't understand the appeal. Because everything I write, I write, I want people to like the song. And when I wrote that song, I just kind of didn't care. And that's what my problem was. I thought, this people I don't care about this song because I didn't feel like I cared about it. And I put it away. And now to this day, I'm tired of singing it. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we've done that song since it was put on gretchin To this date. I mean, it's always been in the set. I don't know if there's a set that we haven't done without it. Um, it we we keep reinventing it. And that's that'll probably what happens this time. It's kind of reinvented, I'm tired of doing the sermon. I've been doing this sermon for 20 years. And, you know, after a while you just go, I just don't feel like spewing out what I think let's just have a good time. You know, so I wanted to, I want to take that song, especially and turn it into something else as a celebration, because people seem to feel celebration and so on. So

Chuck Shute:

Oh, yeah. It's like I said, It's a masterpiece. Well, that whole album. I mean, it was kurang I didn't know this Krang had I think it's actually your first two albums. kurang give you Album of the Year. Is that right? Yeah. And input

dUg Pinnick:

crank police and the front cover of the magazine before I record came out something that I don't know, as far as they've told me they've never seen a magazine do. Wow. Unknown band on front cover your magazine when it's a major magazine? Yeah, you know, you want to sell and they and but as a result of it, it went number one in England immediately. You know, I mean, kids went out crazy and bar because you just got to tell them this is greatest thing and they go, okay, and their minds are open and they say okay, let's go check it out. And they all loved it. It was crazy. When we went over the first time we played, we played the marquee. And I thought nobody's gonna show up because we had already toured the US and nobody was coming. First record. So you know, that's what it always is. And I was a bit nervous. And I remember walked on stage and it was quiet. And there was the music was going on. And I remember our soundcheck our sound man said ladies and gentlemen, Kings x. And we hit the first note king in the lights one up in the place was packed, and the kids were jumping and singing. And we just, I mean, we had never experienced that in our careers ever. You know? So that's why I always say London is my favorite place to play because that was the first place that said, Hey, we like we like you guys. It's okay. Let's go do this. You know, they gave us the Okay.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. Does that help you getting those accolades? Cuz I just remember as a kid in the 90s. Every time I'd read an interview, they would say like, you know what bands you're listening to? Who are you influenced by and your band kings X was almost always one of the it was the most mentioned band for in interviews that other bands love. I know like a faith no, More's Jim Martin, he loved that. gretchin Nebraska and like so many. You're friends with a lot of these guys, too. Yeah, that has to help you. Right? But

dUg Pinnick:

it really didn't the way you would think it would you know, because usually when another person in the band, especially if they're really famous, real visible, and mentioned a bandit, they like seems like people would go out and check them out. But it seems that they didn't really do it that much. Um, I know a few people told me when Gene Simmons said that we leave all the rest of the bands in the dust, they went and checked us out. And lately, I've been running into people who have said it because of somebody had mentioned King's X and they want to check it out. So so now I'm seeing that yeah, it must. It must have been been going on. Nobody told me. But we never really translated that into record sales. We we became the Critics Choice, which was really good. We, you know, we're still here, which is really cool. And we're still respected with, you know, amongst our peers, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, we're happy with that. But when it comes to having that Lumo and you're going out with the tractor trailers and playing out arenas that's, we're far from that we can barely fill up a little club. But when we do go out to people that come see us, the places are packed, and the people have, you know, they're just the glow. There's a glow There's a life and there's a love there. And it's enough to keep us going. And it's enough to pay the bills. And what else could you ask for?

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, well, the respect because I think I see this with, with other entertainment, facets too. Like with comedians, I know there's a lot of cuz I watch a lot of stand up comedy. And there's some comedians that I did they kill me, they make me die. Because I've watched so much so much comedy that the average comedian isn't funny to me, I think it might be the same with music. Like, if you just listen to a little bit of music, you want something really poppy, and really simple, whereas your music is more complex. So if people listen to a lot of music, they go, Okay, same old, same old, and then they come on kings X, and they go, Well, what the hell is this? Like, this is, this is different. This has blown me away. And I think maybe that's why you didn't achieve that mainstream success.

dUg Pinnick:

Oh, yeah. People used to say that. But, you know, my argument always has been with that is what about Yes. And what about rush? You know, what about Led Zeppelin? I mean, I listen to Led Zeppelin and they, they are no, you know, I mean, we rival them in progression, because they're our heroes. You know, I mean, all the crazy stuff we do Led Zeppelin on he did. And they sold millions. I know, Robert Plant, you know, talked about sex a lot. You know, and that's a, you know, that's a good thing. If I was talking about relationships in a real primal manner, we might or might have sold a lot more records, you know, because, you know, people want to relate to lyrics in sex scene about sex. It seems like that's, that's something that we can all relate to, in some way. And, you know, it's all about the masses, you know. It's not that it's not that the masses should be applauded, as, it's great, because the masses like it either, you know, I have to look at it in so many different angles, just to say, I am making art and it is what it is. And and, and we take it as for what it is, rather than equating it or leaving it or putting a price on it. Even though I'm in the midst of all that.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. Do you think part of it too, was maybe timing because you guys kind of came up in the late 80s. But that was not really, you would have been better served? Actually, you know, I talk a lot of the 80s bands. And it's like, I you know, if they'd come out a couple of years earlier, but for you guys, it's almost like if you had come out a couple years later, because I think that would not have served

dUg Pinnick:

you if the sad thing about it is what would have been going on a couple years later, because when we dropped the tune, that's when the world dropped deed. So so if we hadn't come along, there wouldn't have been a drop D band that was champion that well. Soundgarden played a couple songs and dropped deal so so I can't take that I have to take that back. But I know that a lot of people that listened to King's acts, they responded to the way we approach songs, before there was a grunge. And then grunge came along and everything was dropped. you tuned in Neil Young dropped, he tuned in. So they said Neil Young invented grunge. And so you got this big swirl of a new sound. Um, we were a pioneer of it. But what about like Jane's Addiction and Red Hot Chili Peppers in space no more. They were in the 80s, late 80s. But they didn't come out with their hair sticking up all over, because we kind of looked like a glam rock band. And because of the hair, they called us. And then people were saying, Oh, he's got an 80s band. We've always been called that. And I go, No, we weren't, we weren't trying to be an 80s band. In fact, even our hair, it was I wasn't trying to make it like a glam band. I want it to look like those new wave bands in the England, where they just matted their hair together. It was just sticking everywhere. And I said to Jerry, he's here to make it look like the alarm. You know, I thought that was just some badass look, it's just your hairs. It's all fucked up. So we tried that. But you know, you try things in, it doesn't catch on the the Hendrix jackets, you know, Sam Taylor's idea. He had us go to this place. And we bought all these jackets, and they were cool looking. And it was like a subject pepper kind of vibe. And, you know, we love the Beatles. And so we had this thing that Sam was trying to create with us this three piece band from Texas that that there was no real front man like ZZ Top. And that all three of us are like this mystery. And they're that other band from Texas, and he was trying to mold us into this image. And I you know, we resisted so many ways to because that's that's the way we are. We've always been that way. We won't go along with it. Because you want it. You want us to do it. Because no, you can't control me. You know, we as a musician, you know, I have that problem, too. You have to really convince me that something's gonna work. But I'm babbling I know.

Chuck Shute:

No, but Sam Taylor, but I'll let

dUg Pinnick:

stuff happen. Yeah, and so you know, it was it just didn't catch. That's what I always say. It's like a tide makes coke that's clear. And they put it on the shelf. And it's the best tasting coke in the world and nobody buys it. You're going to find it in a mop hostel.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, but Okay, so Sam Taylor, he said, You mentioned him that brought up some questions about Sam Taylor. He had such an influence the way he's been called the fourth member and stuff. But the first thing I think he did one of the first things is that he changed your name. Since can you know where he got that name? Because I was just in El Paso, Texas, and there's a bar called kings X, and I go, Wait, is this really got the name? Or is this just a coincidence?

dUg Pinnick:

Um, Kings X is a word that people use. You know, like, if you're in a room and everybody's make a lot of noise, and somebody gives up whistle, and everybody shuts up, or so many goes attention. Or Hi, everybody quiets down. That's all it means. Kings X. Yeah, you're in a crowd in Texas in this, it's chaos or whatever. Some says kings x Kings x Kings X. And everybody stops, you cross your fingers, you know, and that's what we were told. I never seen anybody use it except for in Fandango, in the movie, the guy used in one sentence, when he was flying in, in Texas with Judd Nelson and Kevin Costner and all those people in that movie. I heard it. So Sam looked like that for some Oh, and also Sam's Brothers Band was called that in the early 60s. Okay. And Sam like that name a lot. And we were called sneak preview, which we hated. And we knew that, you know, we originally call it edge. That's kind of a cool name. Yeah, I came up with the name before there was before there was a YouTube. And I said, Hey, guys, let's call us MCA generally went, Okay, because we had just formed and nobody was thinking about. It just seemed like we didn't argue about a name. I just said, we'll call the edge everyone. Okay. But then we found there was a band called the edge I had a record out about three years in, we started changing our name. And that's when we couldn't think of a name. How do you think of a name after you've been, you know, a band, it's just, that's your name. And so we came up with so many different names and couldn't come up with anything that we liked. And we started laughing and making just making stupid names to the point where it got so crazy, we knew it was gonna be, we weren't going to have a name. So somebody said, Let's just call ourselves sneak preview, we had that on the list. And we went, Okay, we just kind of got tired of debating and laughing. And so we left it in time J love to tell the story. And I do too, when when we played in the club, and made the announcement that we had changed our name, and also one of our guitar players had left. So we were a three piece band. So and we decided to keep going. It's a three piece. And so our first debut show at this club that we had always been playing, we said, we have a new name, and Jerry did a drum roll. And we said we're called sneak preview. And you could hear a pin drop in the club. There was a whole lot of people in there. And we all looked at each other. And when Guess we made a mistake. Jerry went to Jerry's best friends came up to him later and said, Man, I feel so sorry for you. We knew that it was a horrible name. So family knew that. And so that's how we change the name. So long story short,

Chuck Shute:

yeah. So you like that part. But there was one thing I think I heard you say that you you weren't a fan of Sam's production on the first couple records you and you had actually wanted to get Brendan O'Brien before anyone knew who he was. How did you find how did you hear Brendan O'Brien produce was?

dUg Pinnick:

It wasn't Brendan it was. That's kind of I love how stories get twisted around.

Chuck Shute:

I probably just misheard it's my fault. Yeah, no,

dUg Pinnick:

no, but what I love is when people tell me stories they hear back I only go keep going with that one. You know, some of these stories that really great that aren't true. But anyway, when we were making the first album, and we were doing it in a studio, that ZZ Top, well, a couple got what was it? And the Ninth Street elevators or whatever it's called a band that Billy Gibbons was in, okay, recorded. They recorded their album at this studio and Steve Ames, the was the engineer and Sam and him were really good friends. And Sam worked with ZZ Top for a long, long time and him and Bill hammer first cousins. So Sam wanted to keep it in the family. So he put us in a studio that they had already. He brought these people in that he had already worked with or have were considered kind of legendary pioneers. And so he got us in the studio. And so that was what was going on. But when you're in the studio, I was the first time I was really ever into a real studio, and I just was going along with it. And I remember I went to the store one day and bought this CD called masters of reality. It was the first album I put it on. And the sound was, I mean, a kick drum was fat, the bases in your face in the cymbals were. And everything was just like I wanted to hear a band in a room. And I remember I brought the CD back and said, Sam, check this out. And it was produced by Rick Rubin, one of source records. And Brendan O'Brien was the engineer, engineer. Okay. Yes. And, and so there's this sound. And I didn't know anything about who these people were either. It was just this record on Def Jam records that are Deaf America, that was like maybe the second record that came out on that label, and it wasn't rap. So it was just a new thing, because I was always looking for something new. And when I heard that, I brought it in. I said, Man, this is what we need to have. We should sound like and I was immediately dismissed. Hmm. And I put the record away and the first record how it sounds compared to what it could have sounded like, Yes, I will argue till the day I die, that that it would have sounded different and might have made a big difference. You know, there was a, the the angst in the originality of the songs on the first album, if they had the kick in the power that Brendan and Rick Rubin could have put into him, it would have been a dog man record our first album out. So you would have been, it would have sounded like that. Would you

Chuck Shute:

have wanted Rick Rubin and Brendan O'Brien as a team to produce the

dUg Pinnick:

show. I didn't know anything about

Chuck Shute:

producers. You just knew this sounded good. And I want the sound.

dUg Pinnick:

Exactly, because Sam Taylor was producing us. And he was a manager. Yeah, control everything. And in that situation, it was our first album. And, you know, you look down the line a little bit and look back and you realize that Sam never would allow anyone else to come into the picture at that time. You know, he was we were his exclusive band, and he was hell bent on making this the next Beatles. And, you know, he wasn't open for anybody to come in and try to manipulate this in any way. Okay. And we saw that from the beginning.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, well, so and but he did do some good things for the band, too. Now, is he the one that he must

dUg Pinnick:

don't get me wrong, he, I mean, those four records. In fact, I pulled one out a couple of days ago, because I've been trying to read and rediscover kings X and actually appreciate it. And I was listening to some stuff going, man, you know, Sam had some great production methods. And those records have things going on in there. I'm still finding out hearing that I didn't realize was going on, you know, violins and cellos and things that were going on underneath that you barely can hear just all the things in Sam said that he wanted us to make records that you know, 2030 years from now, you can still put it on. And here's something that you never heard before. And in the in the time we took to make those records it was it was painstaking. I hated it all but but all the work we put in it was worthwhile at the end of the day. And we have never, I don't think made a record of that. Of those that are that kind of depth when it comes to layering and putting stuff in. We haven't done that since our new album that's coming out. I mean, the new kings x's we went back to the went, went back to square one and build all the songs up and just layered things and just, I played the new kings x and I still hear things that I didn't realize was in it, and it's not even out yet. So who's progressing now one, his name is Michael ponen. Okay, um, he he produced my Jimi Hendrix tribute record and strum some up album. But Michaels worked with some about just about everybody that you can imagine. There was a place out here in LA that every major band just about came through and made records and he was an engineer there. And so he learned from the best and and I just love his work ethics. He's a analog analog guy, he loves everything analog so there's nothing digital on this record except for Pro Tools. Hmm everything affects Nick's everything is all analog. It's just back to the pure thing you know, and no records I'm going to be on 45 speed so it's gonna be a double record. With three songs aside, it'll be played on 45 so you can get the best quality wow,

Chuck Shute:

is there anything else you can tell me about the record album title song title lyrics theme anything? Um,

dUg Pinnick:

I can't say song title because as soon as I say that, then somebody already bootlegged it in and Somebody ordered it and it's not even even have the record. You know, it's too many scams going on, and stuff like that, but Um, I just, I guess I gotta say, lyrically, I think for all of us, it's totally relevant. Everything that we've always sung about was what we're going through at the moment. We're older now. You know, me being 71 I'm crying about all my mom left me, and I feel so bad anymore. I mean, it's like, am I gonna sing songs about overcoming, or at least dealing with things rather than go Woe is me. I just feel I have an obligation to, to not drag people down with my drummer. They make great songs, I was playing dog, man. Yesterday, I literally put it on to listen to it. Just go okay, I took a shot of some whiskey and smoked a joint and said, Douglas, just listen to it and try to enjoy this. And when I played it, that's what I was thinking, I'm going oh my god, I can't believe what we were going through. And the things I was saying about I don't care, like I used to, and, and, you know, religion, and relationships, and divorces and all this stuff. And it was a dark record, you know, just one day, just one second, feel no pain, you know, and I'm thinking, Oh, my God, I could never write those kinds of things again, because I don't feel that way anymore. But I still want to relate. And hopefully, you know, what I sing about, it's like, Grandpa, you know, come come by and hang out with grandpa, and he'll tell you some stories about the old days, and maybe you'll learn something. You know, that's, that's my attitude. Now. You know, I'm, I have a line in this song. I'm never going to give it up until the lights go out. What's my biggest fear? I might not know what's over there. I'm gonna stick around until they put me under. I am is all I know. Ride it out until it's over. Wow, that's the inverse in? Yeah. Because, you know, I look around and go, Hey, at my age, everybody's dying. People down in the 70s. Yeah, most people, you know, so it's either statistically, I've got a few more years that live, which is bullshit. In my family, but they get, they can get to 100. They have an Amazon 304 in about eight months, and she's doing fine. She's not sick. She walks around with a walker, so she doesn't fall over. Man, she lives alone, she takes care of herself. She cooks, she's fine. And, uh, you know, so I got good genes. So I believe I'll be I plan to be here, Tom, at least 100 I really want to have that 100 birthday, and I'm gonna have the biggest party in the world. It's gonna be fun, I hope. If it doesn't happen, you know, that's the way it is. But But that's why I'm looking at it. Now. It's like, don't give up, you know, you still got life to live as long as you breathe in. And there's always a new adventure, there's always a new mountain to climb. And there's always people around to help you get it up. But get up that mountain, when you got the energy. Because, you know, as I get older, I'm, you know, I find them wearing out a little bit more and, you know, everything's not working like it used to, even though everything's fine. It's just I'm slowing down. And, you know, I'm going thinking about things, you know, so, you know, it's a different world. You know, every every 10 years, we we entered a new, it seems like we enter into a new era, you know, you know, hopefully, I'll get to 80. And see, I could look back at my 70s and go you radiate?

Chuck Shute:

Is that how you feel looking back at your younger years that, like,

dUg Pinnick:

I look back and not as a negative thing, I look back at saying it just keeps me humble. You know, it's like, you went, I think I got it all figured out. Another 10 years goes by and I look back and go, Oh, now you didn't make good points. There. But, you know, you were still up and you got some more stuff to learn. And, you know, and that's what happens even to in the last few days. I've had some realizations, you know, of some of my new secret seeds and how they might hurt someone's feelings. When I when I speak to him that way. When I'm big, we're just having fun. You know, I mean, I'm trying to learn to find out a friendship, you know, and, and, and, and to have honesty where someone can tell me if I've hurt their feelings by something I've done that I didn't realize was, was affected them in a way that causes them to, to feel any sadness or pain or rejection, you know, it's like, I really, really want to be a lover of everyone so that they can be themselves around me. I think that's very important.

Chuck Shute:

No, absolutely. Well, you mentioned that the dog man album and the motions and that was a that was an interesting time for music in the 90s and 94. But I got to ask you about this because I don't think I've ever heard you talk about this. You did in 1994. You did that tour with Motley Crue, and that was when they had John corabi. And I had him on the show and I'm just such a fan of that era. But do you have any memories of that tour? I'm That's kind of a wait. It's kind of a

dUg Pinnick:

it's not a blur. I have so many memories of that tour. It's crazy, really the night. We're on the tour bus. And all of a sudden, it sounded like a nuclear explosion happened outside the buses were shaking. It was insane. And everybody got off the tour buses. And it was Tommy Lee had button $1,000 worth of firecrackers in literally in the parking lot in standing there and watching it jumping up and down going. I can't believe I did it. I mean, it was so loud. I don't know. He didn't have his ear plugs. You know, it was like, Are you kidding? Um, let me think one time we were on tour playing. Mon jam. And Tommy runs on stage and grabs my mic. It starts yelling at the audience going. Do you guys realize how great this band is? I love this man. God, he was just screaming on my mic while we're playing in front of the crowd. It was like Tommy was coming. He was a kid. He was so much fun with it. Lots and lots of stories that that I could tell for sure. And I usually talk to Nick Mars at least once a week, if not every other day. You know, we text each other, you know, so we're all still friends. And you know, I'll run into Nikki Sixx every now and then. And even Tommy, you know, one time I remember running into him at that concert that Tom Morello did with those rappers. What was that the prophets of rage. Went to see. And I was out in out in sick the smoking area smoking a joint and Tommy walks out with his dog and I gave him a hug hadn't seen him in, you know, so long. It was just so cool chatting with me for a second.

Chuck Shute:

That yeah, that's really cool. It's just such a it's so sad because I love that album. And I love that era of crew. And I remember Nicki saying the first show you guys I don't if you're on the Tucson show, the first show they did. It was just so disappointed at the turnouts and stuff but you guys still had fun and put on good shows, regardless of like, maybe some bad and audiences.

dUg Pinnick:

It was sad because you know, I mean, the sad thing about it is the great thing about it is they booked a Motley Crue tour like they would always do the big arenas, all the trailers, trucks in the whole hope for big production. In the first three shows to Texas, maybe 3000 people showed up to a 15,000 seater. So it had to be shut. They had to scale it down and out running the guys go, Hey, see you tomorrow and go now might not be here tomorrow. People are going home and every other show it was scaling down until we ended up doing sheds, outdoor sheds. And it was smaller, and you know, you can be on the grass and stuff like that. So that's what it ended up. But I remember the first night we played with them. And I remember we were dead. We we did a manic depression. And I spun around in my base hit the mic. Microphone and it broke. Which that you know, it's hard to break the neck. But it broke and so I went all broken. I guess I'll just smash it. So I smashed it and gave it to a kid down front, you know, and I remember getting off stage and Nikki runs out of his dressing room. never met him before. And he says dude, dude, dude, I love your brand. But do you do that every night? He goes, do you break base every night? I'm going no, he goes. Oh, good. I'm so glad because I got nowhere to go after that. Give me a hug and ran back to this was the closing door. Wow.

Chuck Shute:

That's awesome. Yeah. Was that the most? Sorry, go on? No, no. I was just gonna say what other tours stand out to you because you guys did toured with AC DC you did shows with a Dream Theater, Pearl Jam, DC,

dUg Pinnick:

AC DC took us to dinner one time they came to get us and him when they were playing in Hamburg. But we were staying about 50 or 60 miles away and similar town. I think the hotels are cheaper. We had the day off. And they wanted to take us to dinner. So they sent a driver to pick us up. And they put me on the autobahn and they drove 130 miles an hour all the way. And I remember Ty and Jerry were scared to death. And I was just going this is so cool. I'm flying. And I remember we got to the restaurant we're sitting down and Angus was setting left to me. And Brian was sitting to the right of me. Then it was Jerry and Malcolm, I think was on the other side and tie. And Brian loves to tell jokes and he has a very thick Scottish accent and you can understand what he's saying. Is that all the heavy lifting in the boy? Was he saying he's telling all these jokes and everybody's just laughing and I'm sitting there going, who knows what he's saying? So I look at look at Malcolm and I go, Malcolm. I don't understand what he's saying. And Malcolm looks up Batman says, we don't even just laugh Oh, yeah, I remember one night they had to do a soundcheck in Malcolm. And my brain went blank, the two brothers. The brothers. I don't know why Malcolm and Angus. Yeah, Malcolm, Malcolm and Angus, thank you. I'm all Alzheimer's, but Malcolm and Angus, they had to go do some kind of thing at a TV show or some kind of thing. So they couldn't do a soundcheck. So Brian came to our dressing room and says, Hey, you want to play bass? And Jerry? I think, yeah. And Jerry played drums. And we got up and played. Who played drums? I can't remember but two of us me and Jerry played with a members of ACDC to do soundcheck, which, and Brian said, That's never happened before, which is so much fun watching those sounds. And we play a little Richard song. And I remember playing through bass players rig and how different it sounded because, you know, his tone was different. The other thing too, is what's your bass players name? cm spacing? Oh, no. I'm Simon. No, Simon, right. Oh, is that the bass player? Right.

Chuck Shute:

I think they had a couple, didn't they? I know, I think no, no,

dUg Pinnick:

he's always been the same bass. It's always I'm so bad at this. Yeah, me too. Because I could tell you any other time. But now that I'm under pressure, I can't think But anyway, he asked me to go to a base store with him in London one time. And so I went along. It was

Chuck Shute:

a cliff Williams cliff.

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah. Okay. And we went to, we went to the base, this base store, and we're checking out basis. And he pulls out this base to check out and he starts doing some Jocko pastoris stuff and Stanley Clarke stuff like the room. And he starts playing this jazzy stuff. And that's how do I know you could play like that? He goes, Yeah, but what he says they won't let me play. Play that with AC DC. So I just stick to the route. And and I says, Well, I'm going to tell everybody you know, if I have, you know, when your name comes up, or specs, you know, because nobody knows he's such an amazing bass player. He does think he's a simple bass player, but he is put bass playing even with AC DC, the nuance, and the subtle movements that he does with that band makes it you can't, I mean, if you study bass with AC DC, you got to know your stuff, you know, cuz he he's not just a 16th note, or every song had a different nuance and vibe, even though it was almost the same thing. That was the thing about AC DC is they when you walk away, it's the same thing. But when you get close to it, you go, Oh, wow, everything was subtly different from the next thing, even how they played when Malcolm would play the high G for the high, the high E and Angus would play the low E. But when they played him together, there was this full tone and nobody knows nobody. A lot of people don't realize that. So when they play ACDC they're playing just what they think is a whole full chord when the two brothers are switching off with notes and everything at the same time, which made it so unique. So anyway, I didn't mean to go off on me.

Chuck Shute:

No, that's so cool. That was amazing. That was a great story. I mean, you've collaborated you taught that's cool that you got to play with them. And you had all these awesome and we don't have enough time to go through all your cool side projects like XM and all these other things that you're doing is there anyone that you have not collaborated with that you want to because I know like you're friends with Jerry Cantrell like that would it be quiet love to see here the YouTube together maybe with Dave Lombardo on drums? I don't know. Just throwing that out there.

dUg Pinnick:

Me and Jerry Cantrell and Steven Perkins. Do that for a moment I'm in. I'm going to pursue it one of these days, but I've got so much going on now that, that it's like it's hard, you know, to, to do that. Actually, I just did a virtual reality song that it's a new format that's coming out with Stewart Copeland and Brian Hargrove, who played bass with a public enemy who plays guitar also named and asked me to sing on it. And so we don't have a name, but it's a it's a video on that single, you know, it's a song so we don't know what's going to come of that. But that's like another group. Wow.

Chuck Shute:

So it's Stewart Copeland from the police and yeah, Brian, would you say Hargrove? Is that his name? Brian Hargrove from public enemy and just and you just the three of you. Uh huh. Okay. Wow. And the songs it's a virtual reality song or

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah, it's it's it's a song it's a regular pop song but uh, we did a virtual reality video of it. Where you know, when you put your headphones on, you can you can walk into the room and I can stand there and sing to you and I look like a hologram. Wow, that's a new kind of format that stuff To develop in so we decided to jump on it. You know, real early just for fun. Yeah,

Chuck Shute:

that sounds amazing. I can't wait to see. Like, like, like when MTV

dUg Pinnick:

came around nobody, nobody could describe MTV, but Video Killed the Radio Star. Somebody made that video before they even thought it was at MTV. So, you know, we're thinking, you know, AI is the new thing. And you know, everything is changing, even cell phones will be obsolete. They said in the next 30 years, because of all the AI technology that's happening. So we just met some people that are on the cutting edge of it. So just kind of, hey, what do you want us to do? Let's check it out. Maybe be a part of it and see what happens.

Chuck Shute:

So do you think that's a good thing, though? Because it sounds like you're talking about like the metaverse Is that what this is gonna be

dUg Pinnick:

in? Yeah. Um, there's been an argument over, it can be the the worst thing, or the best thing in the world, we're going to do as one person, I can't stop progress, and I can't stop digress. You know, and, and it's quite obvious that no matter what is introduced into this world, for good, we're going to abuse it to the point where it's either banned, or we find somebody else, something else, that is the greatest thing in the world, to be used to destroy more, you know, it's just a circle that keeps going and going. So I learned around right away that she can't

Chuck Shute:

wait, because I think I heard you say that you think social media has made us more disconnected and, you know, back into our tribes. And so wondering, I'm thinking the metaverse will make us even more disconnected and more out of touch with reality, it will be Yeah. And ultimately, I mean, it's like that movie without if you saw the one with Bruce Willis surrogates or he just, he spends his whole life in a computer, and there's a surrogate that goes out into the real world. And he's really good looking at everything and, and I wonder if that

dUg Pinnick:

future you that will happen, I do believe it. I mean, anything that you can imagine if, if that thought has crossed your mind, there is somebody who's already figuring out how to do it. And that's a quote from Jerry Gaskell. It's scary, he even said, there's a community that will embrace you. So you know, I I'm not surprised anything anymore. And I've always been one to look to the future for everything back in the 50s, when my cousins used to fix their powers, and they would get Hot Rod Magazine, this is the 50s where I'd look at, etc, as a little kid, and look at these pictures of these, you know, Chevy 55 Chevy and stuff like that, then they go, at the end of the magazine, they'd have drawings of cars of the future 19 82,000. And they were drawing pictures of cars like that. And I realized right now, I'll go out the door and look in those are the cars that I was looking at when I was a child 60 years ago, or more with the cat. So it's just progress just keeps going and keeps going and keeps going. And you can't stop and we are it's the Adamic nature of man, we are as good as we are evil. And that is who we are. The internet has split this up, it's brought us together also, you know, even in the Bible, when it says the Antichrist will be killed, and he will come to life and the whole world will see it that's in the Bible. And I used to sit down and go Now how's that gonna happen? This isn't 1860 We barely got TVs, you know, now look around, there can come a time when the world will have some way to see what's going on in real time. We've almost got I mean, 80% of the world can see something going on in real time right now. So there it is, um, so many things that people predicted the future I'm seeing happening right now. And so I'm just holding on, because there's more stuff to happening, you know, more stuff to come.

Chuck Shute:

Do you ever just think see, because there's a part of me that's like, I love technology. I think it's cool. But I also there's a part of me that goes can sometimes I just want to go live off the grid and get away from all this stuff. And not and not be so because you're right. I think in some ways, the technology has made us closer because otherwise I won't be able to do this interview with you right now. But in other ways. It's it's made us so divided. And I feel like the metaverse is taking that to another level where it's going to be interesting to see is there going to be any reality is that people ever going to leave their house to do anything?

dUg Pinnick:

Well, in certain places, nobody's going to go anywhere. But then there's going to be those big communities where people have turned off their cell phones and they live off the land. It's happening right now. I mean, go to Idaho, I guess is a Montana and somewhere up there. There's like all these Trumpers that are moving up there and they're, you know, living off the land and living the way you know what they believe in what they feel, you know, away from all this and, and separating themselves. You know, I watched a documentary on it and it's like people are leaving, you know, in groves because they're not happy with politics or whatever. And so it's scary. It's weighing up, you know, I'm not Saying whose side I'm on at all, I'm just I want to know what is really going on. Because I think everybody's bullshit. And everybody's lying to us. And there's no, there's an underlying reason for everything that's going on. And if you follow the money, you find out that it's all about money, and nothing other than money and control of have those, you know, just suck us dry. And that's why it appears to me so. So I listen to everything that I hear with a grain of salt, and stand back and watch and just try to, you know, I'll mask up, you can argue with me whether I should or not, you know, I'm going to, you know, and that's just the way it is, and I don't care, you can walk around without warning out, you know, I don't care. It's my choice. And don't argue with me about it. And that's how I look at it is like, you know, I look at it all that way. It's like, we are all we all have our own realities right now from the algorithms. And we all have our beliefs, and we have found our community that feels the same way. And we're continually separating more and more and more, I find that there's things that I just don't say to a lot of my friends, because I know that it'll turn into a horrible argument. Because it seems like the sides that people are taking, it's becoming personal. And I look at politics is just politics, nobody's trying to kill me. Nobody's trying to hurt me. Nobody's trying to take away anything from me. Everybody's serving their own interests. And I may disagree with their interests. But I can't be this victim, like, oh, the world is gonna it's the end of the world, and everything's gonna be taken away if that was gonna happen. Well, bottom line is, it's already been taken away. And we're just idiots thinking we're hanging on to what we what's not even they're losing freedoms, we don't have any freedom. Take away, take away our rights. We don't have any rights. You know, I mean, just, it blows my mind, how the media and the powers that be have us fighting over things that don't matter, or can't be changed, or bullshit. And, and nobody, it seems, are very few seems to see the light through and see that this is all a scam. And but who's got an answer? What do

Chuck Shute:

you mean, there's no, we don't have any freedoms? I mean, we have we have freedoms, we have choices, don't I?

dUg Pinnick:

Not really, I mean, laws are, are here. But, you know, when it comes to like saying something, you know, when you talk, you got to be politically correct, politically correct. All these things that all of a sudden people have these beliefs. You know, it's like, all of a sudden, people are saying, you can't say Merry Christmas, and then you find out that people were saying it, and somebody was just complaining, you know, because some idiot decides that they want it off the bill or something, you know, and it's like, all of a sudden, there's this war going on about culture and about what you believe it. Or like, when there's a black man, with a white woman in a commercial and they're married, they have a biracial kid? Why is it that 90% of the messages are all hate messages? And they'll take the video down? You know, um, you can't, you can't This is America, we have so many beliefs that, that we believe that other people don't believe in everybody wants everybody to accept their beliefs. And I have no problem with that. It's just that it seems that it's the majority of people, it seems like it's impossible, because of the the bullshit that is, is that you have to filter out does that make any sense?

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I mean, I think to me, it seems like the promise for freedom, like

dUg Pinnick:

like, like the what is it? The Patriot Act? You know, like, that's a freedom. They can walk into a house now and take me to jail without telling anybody, I can just disappear. That was a law when Bush came through because the cause of Iraq or the 911 911? You know, I mean, look, we can if you pull up the laws, it's, I mean, the law is still on the books that black and white person cannot get married. Really? No, that no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry. That has been that was overruled. I'm sorry. What I'm trying to say is, what is it? If you're 10%, black, you have to say you are black in your in your applications. It's still a law. But doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. But what I'm saying is there's so many laws, so many laws, and they're making more laws.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I'm not a fan of I don't like too many rules. You know, I think that I used to work in the schools and I just felt like, there's too many even with kids. I felt like I had too many rules and trying to control people and I don't know, I think the biggest thing, the biggest thing

dUg Pinnick:

raging rules. Yeah, will tell me Yeah, because rules for religion. Go ahead.

Chuck Shute:

No, I'm just gonna say well, that's interesting. Like, you know, your background with you, you were brought up with religion and even into your 20s you guys were still playing kind of a Christian. It was kind of a Christian band originally kings act, right. And that was a major pivotal moment for you was this festival where you went backstage, there's all these Christian bands. And they were all drinking and smoking and doing all these things like they had preached against, and then you thought, Okay, well, this doesn't make sense. I'm just gonna play regular music. Yeah.

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah, that happened before kings X. Don't before. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah, it was Jerry and I was playing with Phil kaigi, who was a big Christian artist at the time. Now feel cakey to me is the same. That man is one of the most perfectly well I've ever met. And a true believer who walks the walk that Jesus taught, you know, love your neighbors yourself, the good stuff. I'm not a mean bone in his body. But the a lot of the other people that we saw, we saw just egos and narcissists, who are proclaiming Jesus and Savior. And I just got a bad taste in my mouth, and I moved away. Um, but that wasn't the only thing in the Christian world. There's just so much going on that I just couldn't go along with after a while, and I couldn't get answers. And in the answers that I did get, just cause more questions. And sooner or later, you know, I always tell people it was, there was more reasonable doubt than truth in my heart, in in the faith that I had grown up in, so I just kind of slowly faded out of it.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. When you said something interesting to me, that struck me because I, I grew up, you know, I had to go to church. And I remember going to like Christian bible camps and stuff. But you said something about how you never really felt this like spiritual thing. Like you didn't feel it. And that's kind of how I felt I was like, I would go to church, and I would try to understand it. And but I just never felt like this magic or whatever. It was the spirituality. I never felt that really going to church. And that's just, I can't lie about it.

dUg Pinnick:

I remember what, oh, I lost you.

Chuck Shute:

I lost Oh, no, I was just Yeah. You said no, go on. You were just saying that you can't. I was just saying, Yeah, I can't. That's just how I feel. And so and I and the people that feel that way that about Christianity and or spirit or religion, or whatever, I'm like, That's awesome for you. But yeah, for me, I just and it sounded like you felt the same way that you just, you were trying to follow the rules and you know, embrace this religion, but you never really felt felt from from within.

dUg Pinnick:

Right. And I and I always felt like there was something wrong with me too. And, and even to this day, there are Christians who will say to me, Well, you never believed in the first place or, or the devil is deceived. You there's never, it's always we're right, and you're wrong. And you're going to have to meet God and stand before judgment. And I'm going I can't, I can't live with this being thrown at me. For the rest of my life. I just walked away from it, because I just don't believe in anymore. But, uh, I was gonna say something. Um, oh, yeah, I remember one time I was, there was a time when you have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, where you go, and you pray, and you're supposed to speak in tongues, and all this great stuff happened. So I hadn't, we had a meeting. And it was a whole bunch of us and, and we're all wanting to get filled with the Spirit. And I remember, every time they went to a person, they lay their hands on them, and everybody starts praying, and they start praying in tongues, and all of a sudden, this person starts speaking this language and blah, blah, blah, and stuff, and everybody's crying. And I'm just enjoying it, just watching believing it all, you know, going on, he's got the Holy Spirit, they came to me. And this is just let you come loose. And just, and I'm going to say, who wasn't filming. And so my pastor says to me, just make something up. Just make something up. And I'm not sure. All of a sudden, like, Let's praise God, praise God. He's got the spirit. And at that point, I thought, This is not right. Or wrong. I never said a word. Yeah. And I stayed. And I stayed, you know, as a Christian for many, many years after that. But I had many of those experiences being told that when, if you're gay, it's an abomination, that God hates that more than anything else other than blaspheming, the Holy Spirit, according to the Bible, a man shall not lay down with another man, it is an abomination. So I'm told that all my life and I'm gay. So I wouldn't tell anybody. One time I decided, well, I'm gonna do like Jesus did. I'm going to go fast for three days, and ask God to change me. And I went and sat in a trailer out in the country, and fasted and didn't eat and just drank water for two days. And I've prayed and prayed and cried and begged, God did change me. And I didn't feel that thing. And I stopped and I wouldn't give up. And all I can think of in the back of my mind is the scriptures that people say, don't give up on God and God's not done with you and God, you have to wait on God and you can't get things in God's timing. So anything that I would do that didn't work was my fault. See, religion for me was nothing but oppressive. Nothing but oppressive. You know, I mean, it just, they wouldn't let me do anything. I remember sitting in church with my great grandmother at four or five years old, in the front row, hearing the pastor screaming and yelling, about if you dance, you drink, you smoke cigarettes, you're going to hell, that demons are going to get you. You know, I went to bed every night scared to death, you know, as a child, thinking that the devil was going to come and bother me. I used to have nightmares all the time. Like I'm screaming, you know, for me religion was was abusive. You know, in other people, it's not like that, and I'm writing with that, you know, no, I for me, it is and when someone comes when someone comes in telling me that, Oh, God loves you, and He died for your sins. You know, in my mind, I just want to don't say Go fuck yourself. But instead, I just have to be like, I want everybody else to be accepted person for for who they are and what they believe in love. Because it doesn't matter. Love, love. You know, love covers a multitude of sins. Even the Bible says that. Well, somebody said that, that it came from the Bible. I'm not sure. So don't quote me. Yeah. But uh, you know what I'm saying? I yeah, I think all it doesn't matter. Yeah, I

Chuck Shute:

think I mean, for some people, it's, it works. So well. I have a friend who's a, he's a preacher. I've had him on the show and nicest guy. And I think for me, it's always trying to understand the other person. I think where I get weary is whether it's religion, or government or whatever, when people are trying to convince you to believe and think what they think and what they believe that's the right way rather than right. Okay, we think something different Well, let me try to understand where you're coming from. I would like you tell me what you're about and what life what you think. And that's what I'm more interested in. That's why I do the podcasts because I want to hear other people's opinions that are different than me. And so I wish I think there'd be if there was more of that in the world, I think we'd be a lot more connected instead of divided and differences. Like, let's, let's let's embrace those rather than, hey, you should, you know, vote for this president or you should have this religion, we should say what, let me understand why you think this way. I'm curious.

dUg Pinnick:

Yeah, I have I have several very good Christian friends who I've known for decades, who know how I feel about things in there. And their belief is their belief, and they certainly love me, we never get into arguments we never get into debates. There's there's never any awkwardness even, you know, like, just, you know, I'll be I'll say fuck or something. And nobody reacts, you know, and I know that that's not something they would say ever. And but there's nobody going, Oh, man. Don't say that word around me offends me or something. You know, nobody ever does. And that's what I love about it. my Christian friends who let me be me, even. And I know exactly, you know, I know. Not exactly. But I know, when I lived in that world, what their core beliefs are, you know, and I accept that, you know, they love me. And that's all that matters.

Chuck Shute:

That's being a true Christian, isn't it? Because I mean, that's what I learned Jesus. I mean, he had the lepers and the, and the prostitutes and all these people, he accepted everybody. And he said, Come Come to me. And let me let me you know, these people are outcasts of society, but he was like, I love everybody come to me, and that's why they were all that's why they all gravitated towards them.

dUg Pinnick:

I believe there are many, many, many, many true believers who I admire and applaud. But I do believe that there's many, many, many, many who are just evil people who are only out for their own personal gain, you know, evil narcissists, people are using religion for you know, I mean, when a guy says, God, give me your money, because God wants me to have airplane. You know, it's like, yeah, I know. You got Pat Robertson, or what's his name? Not what not Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggart? Yeah, and all those people asked me for your money, they're just bullshit. They're just liars. They're, they're, they're a bunch of narcissists, who have found a way to bleed people dry. You know, I have such a disgust for them. And I have a sadness for people who believed and still believe it. I have a sadness form nada, distaste. I just, I have a sadness and I have to stay away because I'm that type of person. They will not accept and and it's just, it's sad to me, but that's life.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, no, it is really sad. And but I'm glad that I mean you. You're 71 years old, and you've come into being who you are, and you're happy with who you are. It sounds like you're a lot more content and happy at this age than you were, say 3040 years ago.

dUg Pinnick:

I did I watch this video. It talks about every 10 years, the change that you go through, and it hadn't graphed. And it showed that when you get to your 70s, that's when everything from that point on, it's great. It's really worth the 70s are your best years and it's interesting only get and they said it said they only get better. They said they showed the the graph in the peak was around between 40 and 50. Okay, and the low peak or the low pin. Yeah, the low peak. And that's where that's where I am now. Right? Midlife crisis? Yeah. Oh, yeah, we all go through it. I was there. He just, you know, it's, but then all of a sudden you start climbing. And according to them, by the time you get to 70 it's smooth sailing. And literally, I would say, the day I turned 70. There was a Pitney in my life that changed. It was like, dude, you've been here for 70 years. It came that quick. Okay, look back, stop crying. Look back, you can't change nothing. Look back, you only can go forward. So let's do this. You know, and that's what happened to me. It's like, it's time to party. Have fun. Stop crying over all the bullshit that happened. The people that hurt you not being famous enough or, or, you know, people that have Narcissus friends who got abused and abused me or whatever, and just on and on down the line, you know, and even getting older, you know, I look back and go, Okay, you're old. Now you got wrinkles, you got gray hair, you know, where you got to lose? Nothing? What do you want to do? I'm really done everything I've ever wanted to do. I just want to have a good time. You know, so, and make music and do what I love to do. And I literally am able to do that now. And that's amazing. You know, I tell people when they say How you doing, I go slap me if I have any complaints literally slap me. Because anything that happens in my life now is a piece of cake. It's just Oh, that happened. Okay, so there's no

Chuck Shute:

fear when you get older, because there's not fear of dying or fear of, you know, health problems, or any of those kinds of the fear goes

dUg Pinnick:

away. I went through a couple months. Maybe not even that long of this fear of dying. It just dawned on me I even had a little anxiety attack one morning. And it freaked me out. And then I stopped and I and for me, because I'm a really highly emotional person. And my emotions just exploded and I got to reel him in logically. And I had laid there in my bed and just said, Dude, I said, You're not gonna wake up every morning having a panic attack, thinking you're going to die for the rest of your life. I said, think about it. Everybody dies. Everybody. Think about all the people that are older than you that are sitting there the 90 year old 100 year old that's going to sleep and they have to wake up the next day. Are they going to panic attacks? No, you know, just stop spooking yourself. And it went away and never came back. Um, and also, you know, because I always say, what's my biggest fear? I might not know what's over there. I wrote that lyric, before I turned 70. Um, now I say, you know, I'm not afraid. I might not like what's over there. But I'm not afraid. You mean after you die on the other side. Right? Right. Because Because fear is the culprit, you know, I can't live in fear. living in fear is living in hell. And if I have to live in fear, and then you know, what could be worse? So, that's my logic for me, I am not afraid at all. A lot of times, I think about what will happen after I die. I mean, when will the music that I make matter to anybody I think about the memorial, I'm going Well anybody show up, or I can't imagine the stories that people are going to tell you know, cuz I got a lot of good friends and, and there's a lot of embarrassing stories. They can be told, um, you know, so I think about that kind of stuff, I got to make a will yet and I haven't done that. I've been stalling on that. Just to make sure that whatever is comes into, you know, whatever it is that I've done, you know, somebody in my family will benefit from it. But other than that, um, and I do believe I'm gonna keep going. Here's the other thing too though, is I took a I took a physical about three months ago now I did a blood test. And usually I do the blood test and it doesn't make any sense to me. I barely read it and I take the doctor and the doctor says, Oh, you got high blood pressure. You should take these pills or something, you know, or something like that. This time I got it in the mail. So I went down the list of all the bloodwork and went online and looked up words to find out everything that was wrong with me. And what I found out was my my prostate is slightly elevated, which is way less than any man seven years old. So I get up to pee maybe two or three times a night when anybody else doesn't have to. I have a slight high blood pressure. It's not like a problem. But the doctor wanted me to be on a light heart medication just to make sure. So I take a blood pressure pill every morning. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with me. Sounds good. I spin. My blood work was perfect. It was right down the middle. My cholesterol levels everything. I mean, not even close to the red. Everything was in the green, like insane. And I just at that point, I'm going I'm not gonna cry, but anything when I'm working out and My chest hurts, and I go, Oh, that's because I've been doing too many pushups. Because I'm having a hard. Yeah, you know, right. It's just such it's just your freedom. And and, and the other thing too, is I really feel lucky. I'm in so many ways that I'm lucky enough to be able to be this healthy at my age because I don't know anybody else at my this healthy religion at all. Yeah,

Chuck Shute:

well, yeah. Cuz musicians, I would think a lot of musicians die young, they live, you know, crazy wildlife.

dUg Pinnick:

What I mean is when you get into your 60s and 70s, you know that that beat is the, the insulin problems, the you know, just all those little normal things that everybody seems to be getting now, you know, high cholesterol, the heart attacks, or the you know, so many of my friends my age have had a heart attack now or whatever, you know, or, you know, colon cancer or, you know, cancer on their face or on a lip or something, you know, it's like, just all these things are happening to people my age, and it's not happening to me. So that's what I'm saying is, is I'm excited about that.

Chuck Shute:

That's awesome. Well, because yeah, I mean, that's what I try to live my life is like that. No, no, no, no, but like for you that, you know, you just you only control yourself and so just rather than the fears should be gratitude, because you've made it this far and you're doing well and, and that's and you've made such a you've had such an amazing career and I continue to enjoy your music. I look forward to new kings X. You've got a new solo record out now. What else can we promote for you?

dUg Pinnick:

Ah, well, new grinder blues. It's been Oh,

Chuck Shute:

yeah. That's good. I listened to that one, too. That was fun. Cool. I love that. Are you guys gonna do any live shows?

dUg Pinnick:

We got some shows out here in LA, key shows in California and one in Vegas. And that's it. You know? COVID thing is so crazy. It's hard to do anything Vegas. Yeah,

Chuck Shute:

I'm in Phoenix. So I could drive to one of those like, Vegas might make a little more space. But yeah, I'd love to. I never seen you guys love you. I've never even seen kings X.

dUg Pinnick:

Oh, man. You gotta Yeah, you got to see both of us.

Chuck Shute:

Yes, I want to see all of it. So yeah, well, I'll check that out. And I'll put your website in the show notes so people can follow. And when do we have a date for the new record? The new king Zack,

dUg Pinnick:

no, not yet. No, we're still it. You know, people are fans are just so over us because you're just so tired. But if for some reason, this record is just taken a long time to put together to put out the records done. But we're still finalizing cover and the mastering of the vinyl and the you know, the wait for the beat to be pressed because everything's behind schedule. And you know, and then you know, you want to tour you want to do shows, but the COVID thing, we don't know what's going on. So everything is up in the air. And we don't want to just put a record out in the middle of all this and not be able to really give it the proper attention that it needs. So we're trying real hard to juggle, what should be done, what shouldn't be done, I just sit back and and let the powers that be in our camp, you know, do what they think is right. I need to let them do that. Because they know what to do.

Chuck Shute:

Sure. Sure. Okay, well look for that. And, and then I always end with the charity. Is there. Is there a charity that you want to give a shout out to hear something that's near and dear to your heart?

dUg Pinnick:

Sadly enough? Well, yeah, I mean, compassionate International. I support the kids. There's couple kids on that, and it's 21 bucks a month. And 2021 bucks a month in, in like El Salvador for a kid who goes to school. I mean, that's a good you know, that's, that's a meal for him that he can even buy a chicken for his family, you know. So it's called Compassion International Christian organization, their Christian organization, one of my real good friend of mine used to work for and he got me into them. And this is like, maybe 3540 years ago now, I've been doing this ever since. I'm not a Christian and I don't go along with all the beliefs. But at the end of the day, people need to get fed and they're doing a great thing and and You know, at the end of the day, everybody makes it, you know, they, you know, God is good.

Chuck Shute:

Oh, no. Yeah. And well, it's like you I heard you say before, I mean it as much problems as you'd have you had religion and problems that you see there are some good people doing things too. And this sounds like a great thing. So I'll put that in the notes as well. Thank you so much, Doug. This has been a blast. I love talking with you. Awesome. Okay, thanks. See you later.

dUg Pinnick:

Next time. Until next

Chuck Shute:

time, until next time, all right, bye. Bye. Such a fun interview. Lots of great stories and insight from Doug pinic. It's so funny because he's such an open book and he doesn't hold back. And even if you don't agree with him, you can't say he's not being genuine. And as an interviewer Interviewer I always appreciate that. So make sure to check out his new solo record as well as grinder blues. I love that stuff and CAE exam is great. And of course kings X will have a new record out at some point. Make sure to follow Doug and King's X on social media. And you can follow me to keep up with updates from both of us. I've got a new Instagram and a tick tock that will be solely used for clips from the show. So you can get a sample of every episode that's coming up and see if you like it. And if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out some of the other interviews I've done. And make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thank you so much for listening. Have a great rest of your day and remember to shoot for the moon