Joel Hoekstra (Whitesnake, Trans-Siberian Orchestra)

Episode 201- Joel Hoekstra!!! Joel has quite an amazing resume! He currently plays in Trans-Siberian Orchestra, as well as Whitesnake and with his own Joel Hoekstra’s 13. He has also been a member of Night Ranger and toured with Cher. He has some great stories of all the musicians he’s worked with, as well great advice and insight on his success. I really enjoyed chatting with him- one of my favorite interviews of the year!

00:00 - Intro
01:13 - Live Shows Now
03:17 - Whitesnake Farewell Tour 
04:10 - Guitar Lessons & Early Gigs 
05:48 - Joel's Step by Step Career Climb 
08:40 - Lot of Work for Little Money 
11:25 - Joining Night Ranger 
13:28 - Making Mistakes & Playing with Distractions 
17:25 - Joel Hoekstra's 13 & Writing Songs 
21:45 - Classical Music Vs Rock Music 
24:05 - Guitar Institute of Technology 
26:30 - Working  at Cherokee Studios & Big Bands 
28:24 - Rick James & Screaming 
31:05 - Other Gigs & Musicians Played With 
36:12 - Working with Hugh Jackman & The Tony's 
38:21 - Joel's Climb & Networking 
40:46 - Crossing Names Off the Bucket List 
42:55 - Project with Michael Sweet & Future Plans 
44:57 - Salvation Army 
45:52 - Wrap Up 

Joel Hoekstra website:
http://joelhoekstra.com/news.html

Salvation Army website:
https://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/

Chuck Shute website:
http://chuckshute.com

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:13

Welcome to the show everybody. And if you could real quick, just make sure to hit that subscribe button if you're watching on YouTube. Or you can also follow on Spotify or wherever you're listening. And if you have a quick second, you can write me a review on Apple podcasts that would help me out quite a bit, or follow me on social media to make sure that you don't miss any future episodes. Now, my guest today, Joel Hoekstra, what a resume this guy has night Ranger, Whitesnake, Trans Siberian Orchestra, he played with Cher. So the list of people he's jammed with or recorded a song with is even longer. And I'm always fascinated by people who can consistently find work in such a competitive fields such as music and such high levels of work that he's getting. These aren't cover bands or local gigs. I mean, these are national headlining tours. So we'll get some of Joel's insights into this. And he's also got some great stories on this episode. So here we go. Enjoy it. Please welcome Joel Hoekstra to the podcasts. I do. And Joel.

Joel Hoekstra: 1:14

I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me on.

Chuck Shute: 1:16

Yeah. So how's it so you're in the Trans Siberian Orchestra right now?

Joel Hoekstra: 1:20

Yeah. I've roughly, I guess, maybe a third of the way through the tour, something like that.

Chuck Shute: 1:27

Yeah. And how's it going? Because, you know, some people are still scared to go to shows. So does that affect the attendance at all? Or?

Joel Hoekstra: 1:35

Um, you know, what it seems like, we've entered a new era where people want to buy day of show because they, they're buying so far in advance and dealing with refunds and things like that. So the crowds have been a really, really huge fall. And, you know, we're just amazed, it's great. So having a terrific time.

Chuck Shute: 1:59

That's good. Oh, that's interesting. No, I think I'm kind of the same way, though. Because there have been those shows where you buy it in advance, and then it's like, you got to deal with a refund. And then, but sometimes they so is there a limit to when you would cancel it? Because if it's people were buying day off, then you don't want to cancel? They have

Joel Hoekstra: 2:15

right. You know, I have no idea. I don't know, I don't know how any of it works. I just play the song. But, you know, I think that I think that most bands have experienced, like advanced sales have been down. And I know Broadway has been that way as well. And people buy Dave show. And then the houses are fools.

Chuck Shute: 2:35

I didn't think of that. Because yeah, New York is then they're pretty strict with the are they doing like half capacity? Or is that still a thing at some places?

Joel Hoekstra: 2:43

Like it's full capacity on Broadway, but I think audiences are required to be masked. And, you know,

Chuck Shute: 2:50

I don't know if it's vaccine cards, probably to write

Joel Hoekstra: 2:53

vaccine cars or negative test, I think is I think policy.

Chuck Shute: 2:57

Do you guys have any of those rules that your shows are?

Joel Hoekstra: 3:00

So that's the way that works is it's not up to the artist, it's up to the venue? venues? Yeah. So we're just whatever the local laws are, we just are rolling with that.

Chuck Shute: 3:13

Okay, and then, I mean, you're still in Whitesnake, too, right? Hmm. Okay. Are you guys gonna have a new album out at some point?

Joel Hoekstra: 3:21

So the big plans, they're really starting David's farewell tour. So that's right now we've got stuff lined up in 2022. We start in the UK with foreigner, a run with them and then touring Europe, ironically, with your Europe for the most part, although there are some other dates, I think, you know, we've got maybe a date with Steel Panther and a day with the dead daisies, and I think maybe one with Kiss.

Chuck Shute: 3:49

Wow, those all sound like great shows. That sounds like a lot of fun.

Joel Hoekstra: 3:53

Yeah, looking forward to it, for

Chuck Shute: 3:55

sure. And then there would be a US tour at some point to then Right. One would

Joel Hoekstra: 3:59

assume one would assume a farewell tour would include the US but nothing has been announced yet. So people just gonna kind of wait on that.

Chuck Shute: 4:07

Okay, wow, what's your career so amazing. But if we could just take a step back and kind of figure out how you got here. It's kind of amazing that you, you started, and you were doing all these get tell me about or tell my audience about, you know, all these guitar lessons that you were doing when you're in your 20s and you're playing gigs, and I heard you say 70 students a week. So I was trying to do the math and I'm like, that's either 10 students a day, seven days a week. What was it five days a week, 14 students a day either way, that's a lot of students.

Joel Hoekstra: 4:36

I think back then it was six days a week and they were 30 minute lessons. So nothing that crazy. I mean, it was like you know, a normal work workweek for most people putting in 35 hours just sounds like a lot, you know, I guess in terms of number of students a week but yeah, so that was a lot of my my 20s was spent doing that and then gigging around the Chicago Korea with the bands that I was in and yeah, so my story is like a long one it's very hard to tell like very briefly like how it all happened. But you know, I, I went I went to New York to do a show called Love Janis that was about Janis Joplin that was moved there. And that was really the first time where I wasn't teaching and gigging where I just began to perform. And so that really, that led to about a 20 year run of that of like, only performing so

Chuck Shute: 5:32

well. You did that for 20 years. No, no,

Joel Hoekstra: 5:35

luckily house was like a two year run in terms of like transitioning from teaching. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. Only performing Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 5:43

Okay. That made more sense. Yeah, cuz so then it was this, but it was this guitar is from survivor Jim, Jim was the Jim Petric

Joel Hoekstra: 5:49

Jim peterik. Singer out one of the things I did in the Chicago area was play in his house band for his world stage events. And so he would have a lot of his friends come out and sing their hits and maybe a new song of theirs or whatever. So I got to play with a lot of fun people. With that, you know, Rick Emmett from triumph and Don Barnes from 38, special Kip Winger. It's a real Alan Parsons like a really long cool list of people that would come out and be a part of those and one person that was a part of it almost every year was Kelly kaigi. From night Ranger, the drummer and that's what kind of led to me joining night Ranger was knowing Kelly from there and when there was an availability, they gave me an opportunity. My audition was basically a gig. And so that's what led to night Ranger. And really through doing pit gigs in New York that led to doing the Broadway show Rock of Ages. And that kind of matches up nicely when I Ranger because I could take off on Broadway when I needed to, and then really through a TV appearance on that and having friends in the band that led to an audition for TSO, and so then I added that in and I kind of had all three things going on, which was not then basically transitioned over to Whitesnake and Rock of Ages eventually closed and so it was Whitesnake and TSO, and then David took some time off to have knee surgery one year and I ended up kind of style filled in for what was supposed to be a very short amount of time in shares band and then ended up doing a longer run with that than I ever thought to a few years. So it was kind of Whitesnake and TSO and share there for a few years as well. So that's a long story. It's hard to Well, yeah,

Chuck Shute: 7:42

let's, I mean, you paid your dues, though to get to that first, either. I don't know if you'd call would you call love Janice, your first big break or night Ranger? I mean, either one. That took a long time to get to both of those, right? Like how many

Joel Hoekstra: 7:52

years even even stuff before that because, you know, joining Kathy Richardson's band in local gigs in Chicago, she was doing really well there and Kathy is really who got the role as Janis Joplin and kind of my, my introduction to being able to do that as well. So, yeah, it's just like my, my career's has been a case of just kind of climbing step by step. You know, I just tell people like, the, in the end, I just, I worked really hard at every step. And you could almost trace back every gig I've ever gotten to some moment of like, but you put in all that work for like, no money and like that, you know, and just, so you just got to kind of do the things that other people wouldn't do and outwork everybody and yeah,

Chuck Shute: 8:40

explain that. Give me an example. What is a gig where you work really hard and you got like, no money for it? And why did you just do because you love the music so much. Or

Joel Hoekstra: 8:49

I'm so like, you know, the Rock of Ages gig, I was subbing for my friend on pit gigs on Broadway, so I'd have to learn 350 pages of music or whatever, you know, I mean, who would you'd have to work? I would work six hours a day for weeks just to get a shot to like maybe once in a while go in and I don't know what you know, typical fit gig is like 200 bucks or something like that when you go play it. So it'd be like, if you broke down the work and the money made, you'd go Well, dude, you're making like, like seven cents an hour or something crazy, you know. And the Jim peterik thing was like that too, because I was at a point I had already gone to New York to do love Janice and I was still flying in day of show to do those World Stage gigs. So I would get down 35 songs by memory so it would take weeks of like daily preparation while I was playing like eight shows a week with love Janice, every night and go in and play The One Show with Jim which not that Jim paid poorly by the show, but it was all that you know, leave all that work. You have to do the prep work and those by the end to I'm sure it was like dude I was making like For under $1 An hour or something like that for the work you put into go do it. But that that led to night Ranger. So did you know

Chuck Shute: 10:08

that was that your plan and that you have this end goal of like joining bigger bands and you were doing steps or you just like I really want to get this gig and I really want to play with a bigger audience.

Joel Hoekstra: 10:19

No, not at all. I think it was just, uh, you know, enjoying what I do and working hard and wanting to be better at it. And you know, like the pit gig thing for me was a great excuse to to work on my sight reading again and work on reading music, which you don't run across a lot in bands. Yeah, sound like David and David Coverdale. Why snakes gonna, like throw sheet music down in front of you and go play this song. I mean, it's obviously the Rock and Roll school by the ear by ear. So, you know, things like that. And you know, in the gym, Peter gig, I would say that was out of the opportunity to get to play with all those people and all those guys in the band back there. They're all my friends and great musicians. And you know, I mean, the whole thing's been a labor of love. It's like there's, I've always just kind of looked at them at the music business says something's pay grade and other things have not but it's, it's it's more about like whether or not you love doing what you do and and trying to be like, really good at it by putting in a lot of work.

Chuck Shute: 11:22

Yeah, some of the night Ranger did you have to audition for that? And you know how many people you must have beat out some people there must have been some other people consider that you that you beat out right?

Joel Hoekstra: 11:32

Well, like I said, that was kind of like just a gig. So the way that worked was that they had parted ways with Jeff Watson and Red Beach, ironically, was playing with them for the time being, but they knew he was going to be going back to Whitesnake. So they needed somebody. And there happened that one show that they had booked Reb had to play with Winger. And so night Ranger was either just going to cancel this show. And Kelly said, you know, I know this guy opposed to Jim Peter oku. He'll learn like 30 songs, and I know rehearsal fly in and play the showdown. And like, so that's an example of how you build that reputation. So that really was my pathway in and then I basically did that with night Ranger. I think I had, like, you know, like a week or two to get it together. So I remember practicing like extremely hard, too. And then I say, you know, that first show it down. I mean, we had a very short soundcheck and I was like jumping out of a plane not knowing if your parachute was gonna work. And then when it opened, it was awesome.

Chuck Shute: 12:38

That's amazing. Yeah, cuz I would think I've heard so many stories like that, where people get the gig and they have like, even less time than what you're saying, I've heard like, you have like a day to learn all these songs, or I think was the Who's the other guitarist that I had on from from night Ranger. And now I'm blanking on his name. Carrie, Carrie Kelly, I think he said he had like a day or something that I thought it was him or somebody. And so it's like, I guess a week is that doesn't sound so bad.

Joel Hoekstra: 13:02

I had that with foreigners. So when I filled in for Mick Jones and foreigner, I had one day and that was, that was my experience with that, that total panic. And you did it the total panic moment of like we you know, because we were on tour together was no arranger on our journey. And Nick was under the weather. And so basically, I had a data to get it together. And that was high stress, but you know, great reward in the end.

Chuck Shute: 13:27

So what happens like when you're playing with foreigner, Whitesnake or Cher, and these big major stars, and you you screw up and you make a mistake, do you know, do you try to come up to them afterwards? And apologize? Or do you just like, not say anything? And hope they don't notice? Like, how do you deal with that? Because there must be times where you hit the wrong node or screw up a little bit, right?

Joel Hoekstra: 13:49

case by case basis, I guess is my best answer for that. I don't know. Read the room. If it gets mentioned, then you can say yeah, you know why that happened? Is this or, you know, sometimes the best responses? Do you know, I suck? That's my,

Chuck Shute: 14:06

no, have you had that where you've just sucked. You've never had those moments? What have you.

Joel Hoekstra: 14:12

I mean, I'm my own worst critic, for sure. So usually, most people are more satisfied with you know, the job you do than I am. I'll always be like, Man, I could have done better I could have played better. So really,

Chuck Shute: 14:29

that's interesting. Because you're I mean, you're you've played with so many a list, bands and musicians that you'd be critical of yourself. Like, I thought you'd have a higher ego.

Joel Hoekstra: 14:39

I think no, I think all musicians are critical. That's how you get better because you want to improve if you don't critique yourself, yeah, you don't improve very much. So I mean, most musicians I know are pretty critical of their own performance, like a little harder on themselves have a harder time listening to themselves or watching video of themselves and things like that. I think that's pretty common. But yeah, I mean, I think that there's there's always come eyes in terms of how accurate you can play when you're on stage, there's distractions. There's, you know, entertaining people. And certainly if you if you put a guitar in somebody's hands and you're sitting down and you're, you're running a set, it's a little easier to play perfectly on stage and you're moving around and you're in your mix might be, I don't know, different at times than you expected. Or, you know, I don't know, there's there, there can be distractions. I always tell people like you need to know music to the point where you can like carry on a conversation with somebody while you're playing it. That's like the level you should know it at. Or like, deal with somebody like yelling in your ear and you can still play without messing up. That's kind of the way a gig can feel sometimes.

Chuck Shute: 15:52

That's an interesting take. I guess I just never thought of that. Because, you know, you see these, or you hear these stories, or you see it were bands are just hammered and they're drunk or they're on drugs or whatever. And they're still playing, I guess, probably the plane definitely suffers with those things. But there's so many, you know, stories of that where the bands are just and it's like, how do they do or does the drugs help them? Maybe? I don't know.

Joel Hoekstra: 16:15

Yeah, I don't know. I've never been one of those. One of those guys. But um, I mean, some of it might come down to what band you're in how difficult the material is to play. Yeah. So the night ranger had some pretty, you know, shredding solos from Jeff Watson that I earned. And Whitesnake, definitely, there's lots of guitar work and Whitesnake and Trans Siberian Orchestra as a lot of, you know, playing very, very accurately and while there's, you know, while you're on a lift, 20 feet in the air swing around and fog and lasers, and you know, so

Chuck Shute: 16:50

that's really good point. I never thought of all the distractions because you're right, you're not just playing the guitar, you're having to deal with all these. The crowd, the lasers, the fog. I mean, that's a really good point. I never thought of that.

Joel Hoekstra: 17:02

Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's obviously growing. It's amazing thing, but it also it can the entertainment, you always there's always a little bit of a compromise and how accurate you play, but nobody wants to see like 10 people sit up there on folding chairs playing their parts, like totally sitting still staring at their instruments, right.

Chuck Shute: 17:21

No, that's That's exactly right. So tell me about Joel Hoekstra 13. I think it's interesting that you that you named, they just went all in on 13. Because you know, there's all these hotels and things that don't have a 13th floor because it's unlucky. And you said, Screw it. I'm taking that as a name.

Joel Hoekstra: 17:36

Yeah. Well, so the way I view that when I was starting it, I had solo albums out under the name Joel Hoekstra, right, there were some like guitar albums that are instrumental. And some of them were kind of like fusion II and a little bit more progressive. And then I was like, joining the bands, everybody's like, you know, you should really put on a solo album that sounds more like the bands that you're in, as I was getting these gigs. So which I did want to do, and I thought it was a great idea. So the concept was to put out albums that sound like a band, but have the opportunity to do all the writing. So it'd be the person that writes the lyrics and the vocal melodies and everything. So it's not really fair to everybody. That's a part of the Joel Hoekstra 13. CDs to call it a band because I really want it to be my thing. But also they don't sound like guitar albums. They sound like a band like when you put them on. So a project name was the was the thought and I thought Joel Hoekstra is 13. You know, sort of indicates Hey, this is a project. And so that's the deal there. There's there's a little bit of confusion there. Some people don't understand the difference between the Joel Hoekstra albums, the instrumental albums and the Joel hoaxers. 13. But that's the deal.

Chuck Shute: 18:51

Well, now does your solo Joel Hoekstra does that have vocals? Oh, cuz I think this one has vocals. That's a big, big difference, right?

Joel Hoekstra: 18:58

Yeah, yeah. The Yeah, basically like I just explained the the Joel Hoekstra albums are like the instrument instrumental

Chuck Shute: 19:05

Yeah. But you know, you you do sing I liked what you said. You said, for the 13 that you'd you'd rather have a better singer and have the album sound better than have you sing it and have it just be okay. That's kind of like interesting take though, because you kind of have to, like, you know, it's like an ego check there.

Joel Hoekstra: 19:23

Um, well, yeah, I just want to put out a great album that's more about like the songs and you know, Russell Allen, I mean, hard to do better than that. And Jeff Scott Soto sang half the lead vocals on the first record, too. So two amazing singers, they definitely sing way better than I do. So that's a great you know, in my view, that's a smart thing to do. If it gives me the opportunity to still write everything and write the melodies then that's for me. It's more about like the songs and having the opportunity to be the person who's calling the shots on it. And you know, I mean, though, those albums definitely still very much feel like my babies, you know, like I'm on the one to, I guess have the final say so in the mix and things like that and so

Chuck Shute: 20:10

yeah, no, they sound great. And I think what I really like about them is just how melodic the music is like it's it sounds good. Like, I don't know how else to say that but it to me it like sounds good. You know what I mean? Like it's a it's a melody, it's you can sing along to it and they're catchy. They're catchy songs.

Joel Hoekstra: 20:27

Thanks. Well, I mean, I try and build chorus out. I'm kind of, I guess that's like the poppier sensibility music. My songs usually start with a chorus more than some people start with a riff, like, Hey, I've got this great guitar, we do with it. And, and a lot of times it me, it starts more with like a chorus said, All right, that's a good chorus, I should try and build that out, and then build the riffs out and build a verse and a pre chorus and things like that.

Chuck Shute: 20:56

So when you write a chorus, or you like, that's actually writing music, or just like a melody in your head, or

Joel Hoekstra: 21:04

yeah, a lot of times it'll be the guitar and me singing along which I have a tendency to do. So if I'm riffing. I usually am trying to sing a melody of what would be there. And then sometimes, yeah, it'll be just me walking around, and I'll sing a melody. I'll have a chorus in my head. Like that was the case with hard to say goodbye off of the latest one running games. I was in Tokyo, and with Whitesnake and walking around and that chorus came to mind and I had it in my head. And before I had the guitar, you know, and then went and picked up the guitar and figured out Okay, so that's what I'm hearing. So sometimes it's that Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 21:43

that's cool. Yeah, cuz you, you not only I mean, you can sing a little bit and you play guitar, obviously. But you also have background in cello and piano, I think, right.

Joel Hoekstra: 21:51

Just as a kid. Yeah. I mean, it was like, my parents are classical musicians. So I think they had Grand Designs on maybe parenting, like, a child virtual Oh, so so they had me on cello at a very young age and piano. And I was just very, very young. And just you

Chuck Shute: 22:11

like that though. Cuz I my parents made me take piano and I hated it. No, I

Joel Hoekstra: 22:15

hated it. I just want to play baseball, for sure. I was like, you know, a little sports kid. And I was like, I don't want to do this. And then I saw AC DC. And I was like, Whoa, that dude is the coolest dude in the world a Angus Young and so that's what made me want to get a guitar. And so I went to my parents and asked for a guitar and I think they probably thought sure you Segovia classical guitar, right? Sure. And then they next thing they knew I had, you know, was playing like paranoid and stuff like that and rocking out. So

Chuck Shute: 22:46

did they try to, like, still try to sway you into the more classical or they just finally accepted, okay, he wants to play rock. And

Joel Hoekstra: 22:53

no, I kind of did that on my own. As I got older and wanted to take classical, you know, there was a, that was a great era for that, because a lot of the rock players were bringing in those elements, you know, Randy, or saying they Malmsteen and you know, bringing, sort of popularizing that those classical themes and the rock music and in the rock guitar. So I wanted to take classical lessons. And I did, I think, my last year of high school, and then actually a couple years of college, where I actually was playing more classical guitar than electric guitar. So I definitely spent a lot of time doing that as well, which was in the end, so it's all good. I always tell people keep an open mind and just work hard at it, whatever it is you're doing in life will kind of guide you where you're meant to be. And you know, despite the fact I've been through playing with so many different types of bands, and so many different types of styles and sessions and all that stuff. The stuff that's really quick for me is the stuff that made me want to get into playing guitar in the first place, which is playing with like, you know, Whitesnake, and that's like, you know, amazing how life will sometimes just bring you where you're meant to be.

Chuck Shute: 24:03

Absolutely. Well, you mentioned school, I think you went to is that it's gi T guitar Institute technology, something like that. Yeah,

Joel Hoekstra: 24:11

I did a couple years of college where I got my associate's degree. And then I really just wanted to go to gi T, but I was super young. You know, when I got out of high school, I was 17. And my parents were a little bit like, I don't know about sending you off to Hollywood when you're 17 to go like live in an apartment and but by 19, I guess it was deemed acceptable. No.

Chuck Shute: 24:33

So do you have to apply to get into that, like, you have to send them audition tape or anything or how's that work?

Joel Hoekstra: 24:38

Yeah, I think gi T is you know, they're pretty at least back in the day. They were accepting of most levels. As long as you knew how to play guitar. I think they weren't looking for people like have to learn how to play a G chord. You know, they wanted people that could play guitar a bit. So yeah, there was some application process but I think I was qualified at that point for sure.

Chuck Shute: 25:00

I think I can't remember who it was. It might have been Sam Colton, who was saying I thought he went there. But he was somebody was saying that they felt like the the best part of that was was networking and meeting people. Do you agree? Was it? Was that the best experience for you there? Was the being able to meet other guitar players in network? Or do you feel like you learned a lot from the classes?

Joel Hoekstra: 25:19

Um, well, it's a combination of both of those things. And I would say also just really good for a kid who grew up in suburban Chicago back then we didn't have the internet to be checking out guitars around the world. To have this moment of all of a sudden, the first day of school sitting in a room with 500 guitar players going like, wow, you know, there's a lot of people that want to do this, and just kind of getting a read on on where you stood. And like, you know, that's, that's easier to do these days, you can go on YouTube and go, Wow, you know, this guy's playing like this. Let me see if I can get out to that. So it was all good for me. I played an awful lot of guitar, I would say that life experience that would be the biggest thing. Just getting out of a small town and going to Hollywood and living there for a couple years was a great experience.

Chuck Shute: 26:13

Did you get to do gigs when you're in Hollywood? Did you get to play any sort of like at the Whisky or any of these like epic club? No,

Joel Hoekstra: 26:20

not Not really. I mean, I was like, I practiced really hard and was recording a lot at during my year a GI t. And then I practice really hard and recorded a lot and worked at a studio out there called Cherokee Studios, which is world famous. So five studios and that was fantastic for a life experience to just watching all these major artists come in and cut albums over that, that process and also watching people who are unknown at the time and seeing them a year later be like major superstars on and really,

Chuck Shute: 26:53

like, what's an example of a band that that you came in, that you never heard of, and then it blew up?

Joel Hoekstra: 26:57

I'm, like, Rage Against the Machine was like demoing like their first record there. And I remember you know, Tom Morello hanging out playing the video game in the lobby every night and, and talking with people like that. And then like, a couple years later, you're like, wow, that guy's like a superstar. Now, that's crazy. But all kinds of people there was in that period, Tori Amos came in and did like a showcase. And she ended up really blowing up 311. Or they were total, they they remember they pulled up in their vehicle from Nebraska, like in parked in the alley and got like a ticket. And it was like, literally, they arrived in like LA. Wow. So yeah, it was a lot of a lot of fun stuff like that. And then also, you know, just really big artists that were in there during that time. And that was like, right around the time when the the gangster rap thing was blowing up. And you know, ice tea and ice cube coming in there and doing stuff and boys to man was really big. And they were in there at the time. And Madonna is, I mean, they're really long list of people that were in and out of there.

Chuck Shute: 28:11

That's cool. And that must be like you said, that's a huge learning experience to watch from those guys. What to do. Or maybe Did you see anything like of mistakes like what not to do?

Joel Hoekstra: 28:23

Ah, Rick James was in there. When I was when I worked there and and that was that was interesting campaign years or the ship? Oh, yeah. Right around the era where, you know, he and his wife, I think, you know, had that where they burned the prostitute or whatever. I mean, that was like crazy. Crazy times.

Chuck Shute: 28:53

So was he was he yelling at people and stuff? Or just it was just obvious he was coked up?

Joel Hoekstra: 28:59

Like every single phrase that ever came out of his mouth was like screaming it could be positive screaming but Oh, wow. doesn't do it justice. You know, okay, a lot of fun to see and I was you know, your role when you work at a studio is just to basically not speak so you know, just kind of hanging out and you're just bearing witness to it all but yeah, there there was a lot of great memories. There's a lot of famous records and then cut there all the way from that early Jackson Five stuff to all the Rod Stewart stuff and there were all these legendary stories that circulated throughout the Cherokee faculty that the you know, Mm hmm.

Chuck Shute: 29:41

So does that when you see like Rick James, and he's coked out of his mind is that as a young kid, that's got to be impressionable. Do you go? Okay, Remind me to never do cocaine because you seem like you've never gotten mixed up in the drugs and stuff. Am I right?

Joel Hoekstra: 29:55

Um, I just basically took it all at face value. I mean, I was really Got 1920 years old? Yeah, I was just trying to get through my workday there and pray that I could not get fired and things like that. So yeah, I don't know, I was super green dude. I mean, I was not ready for at 1920 years old, I didn't really understand. I think I had like a lot of technical ability on guitar at that point. But I didn't really understand what it was to be like a pro and be out gigging and working and touring and what it was gonna take to do all those things. So I'm glad I went back to Chicago, in a way because that gave me the opportunity to grow and do that. I guess in an environment that where I could be with my guitar more the teaching thing, I did really well with that because it allowed me to play my guitar five hours a day as opposed to having a different job where it's like, you get home you're like, yeah, maybe I'll put in like an hour on my guitar or something. So

Chuck Shute: 30:58

now that makes sense. That's really good. So Whitesnake, night Ranger share Trans Siberian Orchestra, so many high profile gigs. Is there anyone that you were considered for or auditioned for that you didn't get?

Joel Hoekstra: 31:12

Oh, no, nothing that I've auditioned for. I mean, there's, there's been, you know, just like, a lot of the guitar players in the scene, there's been a couple bands along the way where they've, you know, inquired or talked, but you know, I don't want to name names or anything like that. But there's been, there's been a couple times like that would probably surprise people are

Chuck Shute: 31:32

like, dammit, those are the ones I want. Okay, I'll respect that. Will Tell me some stories, though. Because like, I look at your website, and I'm looking at the, you know, musicians played with and this list is, like, huge, and I'm trying to figure out some of these, like, I don't know, when you played with them. So you'll have to tell me the stories like Sammy Hagar, when did you did you play on an album? Or was it live?

Joel Hoekstra: 31:51

No, that was just recently and like, so? Yeah. I mean, you know, my bio is like, I tried to list the people that were played with the most up at the top. And then there's all these moments where you, you know, I just did a gig in Texas, where I got to go up and play the finale with Vince, Neil and Sammy. And so yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I like to document some of that stuff. Because it's for me, it's like, yeah, I didn't really play with Sammy Hagar. I mean, I was up in like, jam to song was Sammy Hagar, but I wouldn't, because the Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's how I look at it, dude is I'm like, yeah, it doesn't belong on like a serious bio. Like, I would never say put that at the top of my list and say, played with Sammy Hagar, because that would feel a bit disingenuous, but I'm still I feel like like, you know, all the hard work you do in life leads you to those situations, and you're like, Hey, I got to hop up and jam with Sammy Hagar on a song. It's awesome.

Chuck Shute: 32:45

Yeah, I mean, I definitely count that I would. I'm definitely never get that's never gonna happen for me. So I totally count that. What about Bret Michaels? Was that the same thing?

Joel Hoekstra: 32:54

Who's the ASME for all those people? You know, that's a that's the bottom line and like, so yeah, for me, that's like, you know, and that's amazing. Like the the 13 year old me would be like, of course, you have to put that on your way.

Chuck Shute: 33:07

Totally. Yeah. So Bret Michaels, it was a similar thing there. Would you just jam with him? Or? Yeah,

Joel Hoekstra: 33:13

Brett was just like a song. So that was that was a I was playing with Dee Snider solo band. And so Dee Snider played a gig with Tom Kiefer and with Bret Michaels and then at the end we all got up and did a song together. So same same type of scenario. Their breath He's such a nice guy though. He's Whitesnake has done some shows bread open for us at some gig in Canada I forget where and he stood side of stage for like half our set was fist bumping me and I was like these this guy's just so nice so cool, you know? Wow, just Yeah, I had a bad anyway, my experience with the vibe was very positive. I just I was a really nice guy.

Chuck Shute: 34:00

That's really cool. What about Sebastian Bach was that a similar thing? Just the jam session? The Bastion was

Joel Hoekstra: 34:06

so we were in the movie Rock of ages together it cameo scene so we I shared a trailer with Sebastian and Nuno and Kevin Cronin, basically. And Debbie Gibson had her own trailer but we kind of that we were the pack of people in that cameo so we hung out for a few days in Miami and then one of the things we did was do a little like impromptu acoustic concert for the actors in catering you know and so that my I've technically jammed with Sebastian Bach story you know, it's like there's not Yeah, I mean, most of the people on the list are like that, you know, like, you know, Ted Nugent, I'm just on like a track on you know, we covered coming of age on a night Ranger album and segwayed into Stranglehold in the middle but fun, but um, I the way I look at is, I guess, but I'm on a song with Ted Nugent playing guitar and like any playthrough I think was so cool. He recorded his his Part through my app. So, yeah, there's lots of little moments like that where I don't necessarily have a tight affiliation with all these people. But I'm still proud of the moment you get to pick.

Chuck Shute: 35:10

Yeah, no, I think it's amazing. And then yeah, the last one I was gonna ask you about was the Hugh Jackman because that's got to be one of the musicals, right that you worked on her. Yeah.

Joel Hoekstra: 35:17

So that was the boy from oz of a subbing in the pit. And there was a certain segment of the show where he'd start the second act on stage with him and be like a smaller band, like a five piece band, and then he would stop the show. And he would always do something improv with the audience, he would get a mic out to somebody in the audience, and they would put a spot on them. And one thing about him, he was amazing. I was my first day on the show. And he came up to me and knew my name, said, Joel, welcome. You know, it's great to have you here. And he's just such a professional. He knows everybody's name on the entire sell person. And I was just some guy Subin on guitar, he didn't need to know my name. And he knew my name and welcomed me and said, welcome here. And then when he did this improv bit, he wanted this person to sing something and said, you know, what do you want to sing? And then they said, Bon Jovi. And so he looked back at me and I started dead or alive right now, it was my first day doing this gig. And so anyway, this person sang a little bit of dead or alive. And then there was this moment where he said, You know, I just want to let everybody know, at the end of the Beatty said that this was Joel's first day with us, and he was the guy to come up with the Bon Jovi song. And so he said, I think that deserves a round of applause and like, oh, god and applause and so I mean, what what a what a pro and what a top guy, you know, it was just like a really cool experience. This is before I was in any of the bands or anything. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 36:49

Wow. That's amazing. I hear so many stories like that, way more stories like that of these big stars that are just so kind and genuine. Then stories like the Rick James where they're screaming at everybody.

Joel Hoekstra: 37:01

I have a lot of, you know, great moments like that with Rock of Ages, because the people do they come to those Broadway shows kind of on like little PR tours, in a way because they did they do the photo op at intermission and go out. And so there was a very long list of very, like big name celebrities that came to that show. And of course, we did things like played on the Tonys. And that was a one of one of my very surreal moments, I remember where because our bit was where it was at Radio City Music Hall, right. So I had to go, I had to start it with a solo and everybody in the cast came up on an elevator behind me. Right? So I was alone on stage or like, waiting on the side of the stage by myself. And Will Ferrell stands, like right here and Dolly Parton stands right here. And they're like talking to each other. And I've got my guitar like warming up. And I'm just thinking, it's like the coolest moment in the world. Like that was awesome. Like, I wanted a picture of that so desperately. I'm like, I just didn't want to say anything to any either one of them. But I was like, I'm listening to Will Ferrell and Dolly Parton have this like awesome conversation. I was like, This is so surreal. It was really neat for just, you know, some guitar player from suburban Chicago to have those moments. I mean, I think that's pretty, it's crazy

Chuck Shute: 38:19

to think of, yeah, you started like just this climb, and it just kept going and kept going. And you built a reputation for yourself. And it just kept leading all these opportunities.

Joel Hoekstra: 38:29

Yeah, there's, there's lots of fun stories, I definitely feel blessed to have had the opportunities I've had. I mean, there's, there's, there's a lot of great players out there. I think, in the end is finding the right balance between working really hard at your playing and then working your best with getting along with people and not overdoing the networking thing, but doing the networking thing. You know, okay. There's a point where you can overdo that stuff, too. I think you know,

Chuck Shute: 38:57

oh, cuz it's like, if you're asking people for stuff or how do you overdo it?

Joel Hoekstra: 39:03

Yeah, because I think what is on the scene, I think people think of you if you're on the scene, rather than always saying, Hey, do do dude, dude. Think you know? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I think you know, it can be overdone too. So finding the balance there somehow and and then I think, you know, just having respect for the situations that you're in, a lot of times people lose, you can get inside certain things you get on tour and you lose perspective, you know, and just, you know, for me, it's just always important to remember like, you know, the big picture how glad I am to be in the Trans Siberian Orchestra and how glad I am to be a part of Whitesnake right now. I mean, it's something like periodically I just don't tell David you know, just because it's like, you know, people always tell each other that when you've played like the biggest game Have your you know, you get done with the biggest gig and dude, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. I just want to I like to remind David like, Hey, by the way, dude, just want to let you know, like, so happy to be in this band and like, so glad to be here, you know? So I think things like that are important just to like, you know, remind yourself keep perspective but also just to like let others know that you appreciate it and you appreciate the opportunities and you know not get cocky because I mean, dude, there's so many great guitar players out there in the world, you know, I mean, it's not like, you know, everybody needs to remember they're, they're replaceable, you know?

Chuck Shute: 40:38

Absolutely no,

Joel Hoekstra: 40:40

no like I'm you're replaceable swirling around in my head ever.

Chuck Shute: 40:44

No, it's It's competitive is now all these great gigs that you've had, is there any that you haven't had that you want, like someone that you'd want to jam with? That you even if it's just for one song?

Joel Hoekstra: 40:55

You know, I tried to do some of that stuff during COVID with some of these quarantine jams because they weren't necessarily for money and they were just low key and everybody was kind of doing that remote off. So I took some names off the list. You know, doing the abracadabra video with our nel Penedo are now is somebody I've been friends with since 2008 When night Ranger toured with Germany and just always admired his singing and he and and you know, he's such a positive guy I love love the people with a positive personalities like that, you know, I Billy shin. I'd never worked with Billy sheen at all. So having him in that video gave me an opportunity to at least say like, Hey, I've done something with Billy Sheehan. Now, a couple videos of Mike Portnoy in that time, Mike and I even though we've both been in like 10,000 fans had never done anything together. So, you know, just people that our admire their talent, and they're playing and, and a lot of times the personality, you know, I did the echo bats video with Tony arnelle. He's somebody or done anything with and so, Nicko McBrain, Jen Majoris, um, you know, so that all that was done during COVID. So, but in general, no, I my whole thing is more of that philosophy of like, always just work hard and let life guide you to where you're supposed to be. Because some of the stuff you'll never see come in, and I, it's, I say in all my interviews, but I was not the 11 year old kid playing the Black Sabbath and AC DC riffs going like someday I'm gonna be on Broadway, you know, really changed my life and and the same goes for the shared gig. Like I wasn't sitting there going someday I'm going to play with Cher. But like, you know, both of those turned out to be like these huge blessings in my life and opportunities. So sometimes you got to just like work hard or whatever avenues are available to you and see where it all takes you.

Chuck Shute: 42:51

That's great advice. I love it. Um, tell me about the you have a project with Michael Sweet. That's it's not out yet, right?

Joel Hoekstra: 42:58

Yeah, it's not out yet. So Michael Sweet and Nathan James and my bandmate my Whitesnake band made Tommy Aldridge on drums and Marco Mendoza on bass. So

Chuck Shute: 43:08

wow, what can you say that are a name for the project or a song title or anything? So I'll secret nothing has been

Joel Hoekstra: 43:15

announced today. It's all got to come from frontiers, you know. Okay. Well, yeah, looking forward to it. You know, it's all mixed and mastered and I don't know the release date or anything for you. I'm sorry. Okay, but, um, yeah, I know. I think we're looking to do some promo for that. And get it out there as soon as possible, but I don't have a release date. Sorry.

Chuck Shute: 43:39

Okay. Anything else that you're working on that you want to promote here?

Joel Hoekstra: 43:44

Um, man, I mean, you you did your homework. And I mean, that's pretty much it. Guys trying to get through grant Siberian Orchestra tour very much looking forward to the Whitesnake farewell tour. Me I think that's gonna be magical to have an opportunity to be a part of the the band David's last big child and yeah, that's a that's a pretty cool opportunity for any guitarist, I feel like so. I'm looking forward to that looking forward to that project coming out and doing some writing for another Joel hoaxers. 13 album and just trying to stay busy on a daily basis and keep working at what is that I do and hope for the best dude.

Chuck Shute: 44:29

Yeah, that sounds amazing. Yeah, Whitesnake, I hope you guys do a US show now. Were you there. You must have been there when they had because we have a band in Arizona called the Black moods and they opened for Whitesnake on a short tour. Do you remember them?

Joel Hoekstra: 44:41

Oh, of course. Yeah, totally. Yeah, they were. Yeah, guys. Great band.

Chuck Shute: 44:47

Yeah, really fun. So maybe they maybe they can hop on for the Phoenix show. That'd be cool. But all right. Well, thanks so much for doing this. I like to end each episode with a is there a charity or nonprofit that you want to promote here? That's something that's near and dear to your heart.

Joel Hoekstra: 45:00

Oh my gosh, you're gonna totally call me out here.

Chuck Shute: 45:04

No, I mean there's so many but this is just something that you've worked with in the past or I mean I always just put something you know if P after the button the Joel hooks was 13 anthology they can throw a few bucks to some charity or some

Joel Hoekstra: 45:18

Salvation Army that's okay. That's all donation, you know, city where I live, anything that I you know, is not fitting into my life anymore goes there. So, that's my answer for you. That's the one I give to

Chuck Shute: 45:32

Okay. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I know you're busy guy. So I'll let you get back to it. Thanks for all the entertainment over the years to

Joel Hoekstra: 45:38

my pleasure. Thank you. Sorry for oh, yeah, enjoy the warm weather there in Phoenix. Oh, well, yes. You guys like 92 There's probably alright. Right on it soon. Hopefully we can connect in person. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 45:55

That's awesome. Sounds fun. I'm down for that. All right, right on brother. Alright. See you later.

Joel Hoekstra: 46:00

Thanks a lot, man.

Chuck Shute: 46:01

Bye bye. Joel Hoekstra, guitarist for Trans Siberian Orchestra, Whitesnake and Joel Hoekstra 13. I'm curious if that Whitesnake farewell tour sticks, because we know some of these farewell tours end up never ending like kiss or the band reunites like with Motley Crue so I don't know if I want to chance that though. So I think either way, I'd love to see Whitesnake live, I've never seen them. So that'd be fun. Make sure to follow Joel and all his bands on social media. And you can keep up with news and show announcements that way. If you enjoyed this interview, check out some of the other interviews I've done many members of 80s rock bands as well as other music ones, movies and TV people. I've sports interviews, all sorts of great stuff. So if you subscribe to the show, or follow me on social media, you'll keep up with future episodes. And I think YouTube is really where it's going to be at for me. If you have to pick one way to follow me, I think subscribe to the YouTube channel because there's going to be some exciting stuff coming on there. I'm going to be making some upgrades. And I think YouTube is going to be the future for me. I'm really going to go all in on that. So thank you for your support. I appreciate you all have a great rest of your day and remember to shoot for the moon