Jay Jay French (Twisted Sister, Sevendust)

Episode 155 - Jay Jay French!!! Jay Jay is the guitarist and founder of Twisted Sister.  It took the band about 12 years before they would really have their big break with Stay Hungry and obviously everyone knows the big hits from that record “We’re Not Gonna Take It” & “I Wanna Rock." The band fell apart and Jay Jay reinvented himself by managing Sevendust. Jay Jay has a new book coming out in September we talk about, plus auditioning for Gene Simmons & Paul Stanley, advice from the founder of Atlantic Records, his thoughts on censorship & more! 

0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:35 - Conspiracy Theories & UFOs 
0:05:22 - Time Travel & Religion 
0:13:02 - Guitar Player Joke 
0:15:15 - Guitar Solos & Guitar Heros 
0:17:20 - Doing Drugs & Dealing Drugs 
0:18:58 - Doing Acid & Controlling Hallucinations 
0:21:02 - Concerts & Focus on Being a Band
0:22:55 - Wicked Lester with Gene Simmons & Paul Stanley 
0:26:07 - Ace Frehley 
0:27:56 - Early Club Days of Twisted Sister 
0:33:03 - Club Owners & Mobsters in New York 
0:36:12 - Tenacity, Scaled Economics & Management 
0:38:40 - Overcoming Rejection 
0:40:30 - Producer Tom Werman & Claiming Success 
0:43:36 - Founder of Atlantic Records & Success 
0:47:05 - "Burn In Hell" & "Be Chrool To Your Scuel"
0:49:14 - Break Up of Band & Selling Stereos 
0:52:58 - The Story of Sevendust 
1:01:10 - Success & Tease of the Book 
1:03:41 - Dee Snider & Humbled by Failure 
1:05:35 - Licensing for Film, TV, & Commercials 
1:15:38 - Censorship & Banning Entertainment
1:17:50 - Twister Sister Reunion - "Never Say Never"
1:19:34 - Keith Richards 
1:21:25 - Zero Cancer & I.O.U.F. 
1:22:40 - Wrap Up 

Twisted Sister website:
http://www.twistedsister.com

O.I.U.F. website:
https://uveitis.org

Zero Cancer website:
https://zerocancer.org

Chuck Shute website:
https://chuckshute.com

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:13

Welcome to the show, we have another great guest today a legend. In fact, I don't say that often. But JJ French. He is one of the guitars from Twisted Sister. And a lot of people don't know this, but he's actually a founder of the band back in 1972. And it was originally called Silver Star. And he even sang in the band for a little bit. Eventually, D Snyder joined about four years later and took the band 12 years when they started to really when they had their big break with stay hungry. And obviously everyone knows the big hits from that record, we're not going to take it I want to rock. But then the band fell apart. And then JJ reinvented himself by managing the band seven dust, and then Twisted Sister became popular again. And so we'll talk all about this in the interview, and I assume more will be told in his book, which will be out in September 2021. So depending on when you're listening to this episode, it's either going to be out soon or it's already out. But for now, just enjoy JJ stories. We start off on a little bit of a tangent with some conspiracy theories and religion and some some interesting stuff, which I found fascinating. But if there's ever a topic or subject you want to just skip, just look at the show notes. And you can see everything that we talked about, you can go right to the parts that you want to hear about. You might only be here to hear about the seven Deus managing story which is also fascinating, but I enjoyed all the I think the whole interview is solid. So here it is. Check it out. Welcome to legendary JJ French to the Czech shoe podcast. How are you doing? I'm good. Where are you located? I'm in Scottsdale, Arizona right now. Okay, I've lived here for 10 years. Yes. What's that? How long have you been doing podcast? I just hit the two year mark. How you doing? Good. I love it. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. too crazy world isn't it? Yeah, cuz you do want to the French Canada j is it the JJ French Connection? That was called a fridge connection? Yes, I do. Yeah, that's great. Just listen to the little bit of one today with a conspiracy theory guy that I got to finish that one that sounded interesting. I've had a conspiracy theory people too, so it's a lot of fun. That was

Jay Jay French: 2:15

a lot of fun. I listened to conspiracy radio at night to go to sleep. Is it crazy? Crazy stuff?

Chuck Shute: 2:21

It sure is.

Jay Jay French: 2:22

Richard is the host Do you know about that? You know about coast to coast you know but the show coast to coast. Do you know about this? No. I don't know about that. Just radio show in the world. Oh, it's the largest terrestrial radio show in the world's got 600 stations. Wow. And it's uh this guy. George Nori is the host he took over for Art Bell. You don't know who Art Bell? Is? That name sounds

Chuck Shute: 2:48

familiar. But I'd say Yeah.

Jay Jay French: 2:50

Legendary in the radio world, right? He had a conspiracy. You know, his shows are all about UFOs and crazy. stuff. And, and Art Bell retired. George noid took over. And it's the biggest radio show. It's bigger than rush limbaugh show. It's it's gigantic. It's overnights five hours anyway. We're just Sarat who I had on my show. Yeah, to fill in. And he has his own conspiracy radio show, which I get through tune in radio. And he just gets a lot of crazy people. And I love listening to it. Because it's so out there. It's entertaining.

Chuck Shute: 3:24

What is your favorite conspiracy theory? What is the one where or is there any that you think that are? legit? Yeah.

Jay Jay French: 3:30

Well, I used to not believe in UFOs at all. I used to think it was just total nonsense. I didn't. I didn't understand why you would travel a billion miles to then look at the testicles of some farmer in Kansas. You know if that? Yeah, that's the best use of technology. Yeah, because, well, they get they took me in a spaceship. And they, they checked my testicles. And I'm thinking that's why they came here. Yeah, right. I also wondered why all UFOs tended to look the same in a particular era. So in other words, in the 50s, it'll look like inverted pie plates. And the 60s, they'll look like something else. And then the 70s when Close Encounters came out, they all look like close encounters. And I started thinking, do they have like a General Motors somewhere in sight? You know, we have like the new the new model. Yeah, let's send the pipe plate model out. And let's, let's send the inverted saucer out. So I these are all just funny observations like it like why do you go to the expense to get here? Traveling billions and billions of miles using technology that is so far beyond anything that we can even conceive of? if all you're doing is screwing around with our Air Force every once in a while?

Chuck Shute: 4:51

Well, yeah, that's what I mean. But you've seen those videos in the military released right? So but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're aliens from outer space. It just means literally UFOs unidentified flying objects. It's we don't know what it is. But that's what makes it so fascinating. There's all these theories, of course.

Jay Jay French: 5:07

Yeah, there's all these theories. I don't know. I guess it's, it's fun. Anyway, I used to not believe in them. I kind of believe in conspiracy theories. I mean, I don't know my here's my question. I ask people, if you could go back in time to any time in the history of the world to somehow verify something you've heard or read about, where would you go? So let me throw that at you. If you could go back. Where would you go?

Chuck Shute: 5:36

Oh, I would go see the dinosaurs for sure. I'd want to see I've never seen a dinosaur. That'd be amazing.

Jay Jay French: 5:42

Okay. So I would go back to the crucifixion, to see if it really happened. Because, you know, there's really no proof that Jesus ever lived. That's a conspiracy. That's a conspiratorial concept. The fact that it's a virgin birth. If it wasn't a virgin birth, that would kind of blow the whole Catholicism thing right out the window. Right? Yeah. Anything which would crumble if it wasn't, if there was no virgin birth? Right? Uh huh. So I want to know, when these religions were all conceived, Judaism, Christianity,

Unknown: 6:19

Islam?

Jay Jay French: 6:21

Did they sit around and think how they were going to do this? I mean, if you think about the Bible, the Bible is written over 124 year period of time, over an expanse of 5000 miles. And supposedly, it's to tell the truth of our origin. But you can't get 10 people to agree on a car accident. Can't get 10 people to agree the rice saw. So how do you trust 125 years? over a distance of 5000 miles? Anything? You know, right? I mean, I don't mean to, to say that. religion doesn't exist, I just mean, knowing mankind the way I the way I believe it is. I it's almost, it's illogical. To me, though, things are logical. So I mean, that's just my

Chuck Shute: 7:18

Yeah, I know, it's an interesting. I mean, I like hearing people's different opinions on that. Because I have friends that are Christian, that they're one, they will not open their mind, even to UFOs. They think that my friend who's a diehard Christian, he's a preacher, he's the he thinks UFOs are fallen angels. So that's another like, so that's his theory, then other people think UFOs or aliens. And so, I mean, all this stuff is like, everyone has their own theory. Nobody knows. For sure. any of this stuff. I mean, so yeah, right. If you had a time machine, you'd go back and see and verify. That'd be really interesting.

Jay Jay French: 7:47

Yeah, I mean, you know, did it it didn't happen was the, if there was no virgin birth, then that shoots down, that pretty much takes out a whole religion. And, um, you know, my parents were Jewish. But I was not raised in a religious household, secular house. So, you know, my parents attitude was, you know, follow your own path and figure it out. What I would like to know, actually, is what percentage of people change their religions in their lifetime? Because if every religion tells you there's one pathway, and they're the golden pathway, then why is it that 10% or 20%, or 30%? I don't know what the percentage is, but a certain percentage of the human race changes religions. I mean, I always thought that when you're born, up until you were about 14, or 15, you are the religion that your parents tell you, you are two simple as that fact. Your parents are your God, because they created.

Chuck Shute: 8:50

Yeah, definitely

Jay Jay French: 8:52

gave you life, the parents created you. And then your parents have taught you things. And so up until probably around 15, you become rebellious punk. You buy into just about everything they say. And then one day they go Screw you. I believe anything you tell me. So what percentage of the human race has changed religions? That's I've always thought thought about?

Chuck Shute: 9:18

Well, yeah, I always think that, you know, that's one argument I have with my Christian friend is like, well, what if you were born in a different part of the country? Because then that religion is dominant religion, and everyone thinks that that's the god so how do you know which one's right? It's, it's confusing to me. I don't know. And I've gone to like different kinds of churches just to see what they're like. And I don't know it's an it's an interesting topic. And this guy is trying to keep an open mind with all of it. I don't know. I don't know if that's why it's interesting. People say I know 100%. There is a god there isn't a god. This is the god this. I mean, who knows? I don't know how people know that stuff.

Jay Jay French: 9:52

Yeah, well, I don't know. But it doesn't seem logical to me that 1.8 billion people think this is the way to 1.3 billion people think that's the way one 2 billion people think that's the way then you have China. And they're atheists. And so, you know, it's either everybody's right or everybody's wrong. But no, there's no one pathway. So I don't like dogmatic people drive me crazy open minded people I have fun with but yeah. Then there's no conversation left, right?

Chuck Shute: 10:27

Well, don't you think too, though, a lot of like, I mean, I don't know. So with some of the, you know, the more, I don't know, pardon the term like Hocus Pocus parts of some of the religions, you know, that this, you know, this happened or that event or whatever, but a lot of the beliefs in terms of the morals and stuff, you know, hopefully they're, you know, training people to be good people. I know, there's some, obviously some things that Christians have done, especially, and other religions that have, you know, holy wars and things like that, that are bad, but, I mean, don't you think that you know, deep down all, all people are good. And that's one thing we all have in common, whether we believe this religion or that religion?

Jay Jay French: 11:01

Well, there's probably some sort of basis of 10 commandments, you know, that we say, Thou shalt not kill, you know, that's a good rule. Some basic stuff like that. Oh, yeah. Um, that probably a universal Hmm. And and if you brought up, you know, but the other thing too is that Do you believe in the do believe in heaven? Do you believe in hell? Do you believe in the devil? Do you believe you can be possessed by the devil? I don't believe there's such a thing. As a devil, I believe there's such a thing as mental illness. If you're mentally ill person, you do some pretty bad shit. Okay. So I don't think that you can tell somebody that the devil told you to do it. But the point is, you're psychotic. And you have mental illness. So the real bad people in the world are mentally ill human beings. So whether you want to ascribe that to some supernatural control force? That's another whole aspect of religion. I don't I just think bad people are bad people. Because you take 10,000 people, you put them in a room, and you look at their behavioral profile, you'll probably see a pretty consistent anywhere in the world. I'll bet you you see consistencies, I bet you you'll see X percent are gay, X percent are narcissistic, X percent are empathetic, and so on. And I don't really sure that it's cultural that much. I think it really is a broad based analysis of the human behavioral cycle. And yes, you can be influenced by region, for sure. But I think I'm your deeply held views of what is right, what is wrong are probably imbued in you by your parents. And if you grossly veer from it, it's probably due to mental illness having to do with mental illness, not because you're controlled or owned by the devil. Hmm, yeah, said that. My favorite guitar player joke. goes like this, a guitar player dies, wakes up. And strangely enough, he's in what looks like a concert hall like Madison Square Garden. And he opens his eyes in the devil standing in front of them. And he says to the devil, where am I the devil goes, you're in hell. And the guy says, Yeah, but it looks like Madison Square Garden. And the devil says, Well, you know, Hell is like overhyped nonsense, you know, it's like not anything like you think it is. In fact, would you like to meet these musicians who are on the stage right now doing a soundcheck and the guy, the guitar player gets up and walks down to the stage and there is john Bonham on drums, Jimi Hendrix on guitar, john Lord on keyboards. You know, all these incredible musicians are standing there, and he's looking at this thing consists of the devil. Are you sure I'm in hell? And the devil says, Oh, yeah, you're in hell. And he goes, but, but this stage is amazing. And the light shows incredible in the pH and grind the music. He goes, Yeah, but you're in hell. He says, Okay, so the devil says, Do you want to play along with the band? And the guitar player goes, of course, I want to play with the band. So the devil says, what kind of guitar do you want? And the guitar player goes, do you mean I can pick any guitar and anyone you want? So he says a 1959? Les Paul, because that's one of the most revered guitars in the history of mankind. And the devil gives him the 59 Les Paul and the guitar player says are you sure I'm in hell? And the devil says yeah, yeah, you are in hell. So the devil says, Well, what kind of amplifier Do you want this as well. I'd like to have three Marshall Plexi 100 watt stacks and the devil goes Bingo. And there's 300 watt, three 100 watt marshals and the guitar player says are you sure I'm in hell and devil says yeah, yeah, yeah, you're you're in hell. So the devil says now what? This is why I like to plug in. Can I get a cord and the devil goes on record. I'm a guitar player plugs in and he hits an E chord and it's the most incredible Tony's ever heard his life and he says of the devil. Are you sure I'm in hell on doses? Yeah, you're in hell. And the guitar player turns around on the devil and says one, can I play my solo? And the devil goes?

Chuck Shute: 15:16

That's great. But you know, a lot of those 90s bands, they didn't they wouldn't do solos like they got they wasn't cool or whatever. Yeah, it was a rejection of Van Halen in the shredder world. I love that stuff. And I love the screams and all that I like, I like that kind of music. I think if you have that kind of talent, you got to use it. Maybe not every song, but at least some some of the time, you got to show off a little right?

Jay Jay French: 15:40

Yeah, eras define. taste. And, you know, when I was growing up, we didn't have guitar heroes to watch on YouTube. Put it on, take the needle, put it on the record, play the song, and then pick the needle up. And you played it again. And you pick the needle up. And you played it again. And you were wearing out the record. And you're wearing out the the photo stylist and you put a quarter you taped a quarter onto the top of it to make sure it wouldn't skip. And that's how you learn how to play. And now you got a billion traders out there. All on YouTube. And from a technique standpoint, there's a lot of really super players.

Chuck Shute: 16:26

Yeah, I know for sure. It's hard to keep up. I mean, I see kids on YouTube with millions of views. And I'm like, I've never even heard of this kid. But he's amazing.

Jay Jay French: 16:33

Yeah, he's amazing. But you know, the other thing is, they're amazing, but they have no soul to back it up with yet because you need years of experience to imbue the emotion of playing with music. Yeah. Which Um, so yeah, that's like, you know, that sounds like some old guy going. Back in my day. You know, we had to take horse and buggy to a concert to see Led Zeppelin, we had no gasoline. I don't want to sound like that I but I will say that most of the musicians that I like, are older who have some sort of who were their experiences on their sleeve. And not just read it out of a book.

Chuck Shute: 17:12

know for sure. And you know, your career. So amazing. I want to talk about that. But before really your music career started. I mean, I didn't know this portion of your story that there was a five year run or so where you were, you were doing drugs and dealing drugs. And you just ended the most amazing part of this to me is that you just quit cold turkey. And it doesn't sound like from what I know that you ever had any slip ups after that, or ever went back? How the hell did you do that? Because

Jay Jay French: 17:40

I have I have an incredible survival gene. And so yeah, well, I can talk about those years. And it's like, I'm talking about a third person, because it's 50 years ago. But the truth is, yeah, for five years, I was a dealer. I was a drug addict. All my friends were dealers Oh, my friend. This was in New York, this is the hippies. Yeah, and most of them are dead. You know, we really we, you know, the amount of partying, the amount of drugs we consumed in the 60s were, were unbelievable. And what happened was, I woke up one morning, in 1972. And my best friend, Victor was a junkie and my girlfriend was a junkie and there was heroin everywhere. And I had odede. And I just said, If I continue on this road, I'm gonna die. I'm either going to die from a drug overdose, or I'm going to be murdered in a bad neighborhood during the drug deal,

Chuck Shute: 18:41

because you would have guns and knives to your head and stuff like that. Right?

Jay Jay French: 18:44

Guns knives? To my throat. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 18:47

Did you ever get caught? Or did you ever go to jail? No,

Jay Jay French: 18:50

never. Wow. I can see. So what happened was I woke up and I went, john, you've ever got busted? You're not in a hospital, your brain still intact, even though you took acid over 250 times. I mean, I took LSD every day in the summer, 68 every day for three months. Because I wanted to learn how to control hallucinations. Did you?

Chuck Shute: 19:11

Did you do it? Were you able to?

Jay Jay French: 19:12

Okay, because I took a lot of acid the first time and I almost went up in Bellevue. Because I write about it in my book. The experience was unbelievable. And I thought I was losing my mind. I thought I was actually losing my mind. I go into great detail as to what happened that day. But I took a shower in the middle of the day because I was trying to, to control the urge to tell my parents to take me to Bellevue and while I was in the shower, my head left my body moved over to a window sill and watch my headless body wash itself. Which point and my parents when I tried to talk to them, they had turned into giant hogs in the living room. So there were these big reading times. Oh my god on April. Seventh 1968 The reason why I know the date or April 9, this was the date of the Martin Luther King funerals My parents are watching the funeral on TV. And I decided that day, I had been selling LSD for a while. So I may as well take it, find out what the fuck it's all about. And oh my god, so. So I thought I was going to, I didn't know what to do. Like when I tell my parents take me to Bellevue, then they're gonna freak out. And these two big hogs are going to grab me and put me in a police car. And anyway, bottom line was when I finally came down that later on that day, I said to myself, I have a choice, either never take it again, or understand how to control my hallucination. So I stay I started taking small amounts every day, and built up more and more and more until I learned how to function on acid.

Chuck Shute: 20:45

That's fine. Never heard of somebody take out a prop to

Jay Jay French: 20:48

be really good at it. I got to be able to take two tabs of blue chair, go out to a concert, sell drugs, convert money into foreign currency while everything was melting around me and no problem. Wow.

Chuck Shute: 21:01

Do you think that helps you with your focus in terms of like music and stuff? Um, well, yeah. I mean, you know, how old are you? 43.

Jay Jay French: 21:13

Okay, so. So I'm 60. I'll be 69 next week. Okay. And so, if you were born in 5253, when you were 15 1617 years old, you know, in 6869 71. And you lived in New York, LA, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, there were these concert halls. And every weekend, you could see everybody you ever wanted to see so there was nothing special about it. Led Zeppelin be playing this weekend and Jimi Hendrix is next weekend. The Grateful Dead the weekend after that. And Janis Joplin, so we can have to that friend and Jeff Beck has a weekend after that. And Jethro tells the weekend after that, and everything was three bands to a bill and each ticket was $3. If you couldn't afford three bucks, you see the same bands in Central Park in the summer for $1. dollar dollar 50. Jimi Hendrix chambers brothers. Wow, everybody,

Chuck Shute: 22:09

I want to change my time machine answer.

Jay Jay French: 22:11

I want to come back to this portion. You just hang outside. Yeah. So loud, you can hear him anyway. When you have that at your disposal. All these amazing artists on a weekly basis, and you're a musician and you're looking for inspiration. You got it.

Chuck Shute: 22:28

Yeah. And you and so I mean, it was that kind of your focus then after you decided, Okay, I'm quitting the drugs. And this did that kind of become your drug like doing music and starting a band and one trying to grow the band?

Jay Jay French: 22:40

Well, I'd already been playing for a long time. But the end of the drug use coincided with a real focus to to get a band together

Chuck Shute: 22:49

to do music. Yeah, yeah. So jammed with a lot of people. Yeah. And I know you probably already talked about this a million times and you're sick of it. But you did audition for Wicked Lester, which was the you know, the early formation of kiss with Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons. Was there anything when you audition for that was anything any clue that gave get the these guys are different? Like this is these guys are gonna make it there's some special these guys were they just seemed like regular audition at the time. When I was auditioning with him, No, but then when they got when they hired ace.

Jay Jay French: 23:22

Um, sometime around September, October 72. They had they had Peter and Ace now we're in the band. So they were fully formed now. I was jamming with their old guys and Wicked Lester, so I couldn't tell you that there was something about the jam session that made me think it was anything more special than another bunch of guys wanting to be in a band. You know? I mean, it was Jean and Paul and three other guys who look like they were in the Grateful Dead they must have beards and they were they were going to fire those guys. They told me they don't know they're being we're breaking up the band. I don't remember exactly okay. But but no but then you and they gave me the Wicked Lester demo tapes. And they were pretty hokey sounding. I mean, they're out there now. It's not like it's a secret. If you hear some of the stuff Yeah. Stephen Stills plays guitar is still still still sweet Ophelia because he was at Electric Lady studios and they were doing the demos for that. So he's on guitar. They did a song called like a country song which Paul says he was born in a log cabin on the shores of the Illinois you know, like, yeah, like really? Yeah. And then they did she, she with flutes? Like it sound like Jethro Tull. You know, she walks on. Like with flutes and piccolos or whatever. And they said to me, this is not who we are. This sounds like looking glass. Do you know who looking glasses they had a hit called brandy?

Chuck Shute: 24:44

Yeah, I was gonna say that. Yeah,

Jay Jay French: 24:46

yeah, they knew I think they knew them. Okay, I think they knew the guys in a way where they just said, we sound like looking glass. We're not going to be like looking glass. They said we want to be like, slayed, and they started naming all these English bands. That I wasn't that familiar with at that moment that they were talking to me about? Sure. And they just send you like slate and I hadn't heard of Slade yet. So they said they were platform shoes and they're loud. And so I knew they knew what direction they were going in, which is important. Mm hmm. Because the only other band that was successful from that period of time at a New York was the New York Dolls. And so, we all used to go down and see the dolls because the dolls had all this hype. Going for them.

Chuck Shute: 25:30

Didn't you say you didn't think they sounded good, though.

Jay Jay French: 25:33

And in the January edition of Roxanne dolls on the cover, and Twisted Sister and kiss are a little black and white photos. You know, like in the inside sheet? Yeah. Oh, anyway. Um, but when I saw kiss as kiss, which was I think a week after they changed the name. And Ace painted the logo on a bedsheet, and they invited me down to the loft on 23rd Street, and they played the whole set with Marshall amps, heavy, heavy, and I went, Wow. And Ace was great. I wasn't anywhere near as good. They pick the right guy. 100% they pick the right guy? Yeah, bass was perfect. He understood it. You know, recently, someone said to me, who were the most influential guitar players and rock and I said, Well, let's talk about American versus British. I said in America, you got Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, and it's really, how can you please freely in the same category? I said, because if you're asking me, who made more kids dream about being rock stars, as freely for sure is probably responsible for more kids dreaming of being a rock star than anyone else except for maybe Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen. Hmm,

Chuck Shute: 26:50

no, I agree. 100%. Yeah,

Jay Jay French: 26:52

you cannot take away you know, you could say, well, he's not technically that great. Has nothing to do with it. KEITH RICHARDS isn't technically technically great, but he's responsible for millions of people wanting to be rock star, hmm, absolutely carry themselves in a certain way. They play with a certain attitude. That's the difference between technique and brilliance. And feeling for sure. is played with an enormous feeling. And so I don't need to know I don't need someone to tell me that about the technical aspects of aces playing. I know what they are. Right? That's not the point.

Chuck Shute: 27:27

Now I agree. Because I asked these musicians I interview all time. And they also kiss is probably the number one most influential band that I Oh, yeah. Kiss big time, everybody and people that you wouldn't think heavier bands like country band.

Jay Jay French: 27:39

Yeah. And the story I mean, it's simple has nothing to do with whether I'm friends with them, not friends of them. agree with him politically? Not really. Whatever. He responsible for creating more dreams and probably anybody else for sure.

Chuck Shute: 27:55

So you're banned though. Before they were Twisted Sister. They were silverstar. And I love this story of and I watched the documentary we are twisted fucking sister. It's 12 years before your you know, big break. But it makes me think like, why don't you guys give up but you guys were making it as a bar band. I think you said that you made hundreds of 1000s of dollars a year as a bar band in New York. Now explain that. The numbers on this. So because he says you've played six shows a night, five shows? or six night? Five shows a night six nights a week? How do you do five shows in one night? Is that like at the same venue? Or are you not switching venues?

Jay Jay French: 28:30

Okay, you do? They're called sets. Okay, five, five sets a night. But the thing is, back in those days, we did costume changes after every show. And every show is different. So we did five performances a night? Wow. Oh, for the first. So So to put this in perspective. You take a calculator. All right. Take a calculator and say that's 30 shows a week. times 52. So in a year, you're playing 1500 shows.

Chuck Shute: 29:01

That's okay. Now,

Jay Jay French: 29:03

when bands come to me and they say to me, I want you to see my band. And I say how many shows have you played? And they go? I said how long you've been together two years? How many shows you play? Oh, about 50? I said you done 50 shows total? Yeah, yeah, that's a lot. I said, Okay. When you get to 500, call me, we will never get to 500. So the chances are, I won't come and see you back. Because in the first two years, I was already at 3000 shows. Okay, that's a lot. And then as time went on the sets, we went from five sets a night to four sets a night to three sets a night to two sets a night to one over the 10 year period. So by the time you got to 1982 when we got signed to a record deal. You know, there was already 7000 performances. Yeah. So when people talk about how great we are as a live band, and how how can we We'd be so great. I said, Well, if you do something 7000 times and you suck at it, you've got a real problem.

Chuck Shute: 30:05

Practice for sure it'd be in that business. Yeah. So talk about

Jay Jay French: 30:09

is when you play that much. When you play that much, you learn how to do it. Mm hmm. And a lot of younger bands don't have that luxury. I don't blame them. You know, everyone every year is different. But if you look at the greatest lot, I mean, Ted Nugent, Jay geils, Springsteen, we all came out of the bar scene. You know? And that's, that's trial by fire.

Chuck Shute: 30:37

Yeah, no, for sure. And I think you can still do that. Maybe not a five sets a night, but I think you could do five or six shows a week. If you see a lot of these people just going to the bars, Hey, can I play here, and I'll use a tip jar or whatever. And, I mean, there's ways to do it. I

Jay Jay French: 30:52

would think if there's another issue that you need to keep in mind, the drinking age was 18. That's right. And as a drinking age of 18. Kids were 15 had fake proof because you can make proof in in schools in a printing class and school. Proof was not hard to make fake. So think about the 1000s of kids available to the scene. Which is why the copy scene was so big, so huge, because the bars were huge. Right? There were huge. The bars were gigantic. You can't um, that doesn't exist today. Yeah, it's kind of like, holds 300 people. In our day, the bar is held up to 5000 people.

Chuck Shute: 31:38

That's crazy cover

Jay Jay French: 31:39

material. We're not talking concerts here. We're talking cover bands. You know, we're doing cover bands could play to 3000 4000 5000 people in the tri state area because the clubs were gigantic. So what happens is you learn how to play the 3000 people. When you learn how to play 3000 people or five 5000 people, then there's no, it's an easy jump to 10,000 to 15 to 20 it doesn't matter anymore. People said to me, 100,000 people I said once you get past 10,000 it's just an amorphous mass. You know, and you have to learn how to do it. There's a technique to doing it. Because you have to understand the technique, but it's technique. Learn how to entertain masses of people. So there's maybe 30x in the world that can play 200,000 people with a promoter can trust you to play to 100,000 people, you know, cuz that's a big, that's a big deal. You know, if you have a festival and you're closing the festival, and there's 100,000 people then you suck that's gonna suck for the festival. So how many bands can play to 100,000 people on Metallica can kiss can we can Iron Maiden can AC DC can Judas Priest can Alice Cooper can like we know how to do it. And it's an art form? For sure. So yeah,

Chuck Shute: 33:02

it took a lot of those years so but in during those like clubs, like I love how that's like the focus of the documentary is like the those struggling years It sounds like you had a lot of adversity, like you said the drinking age, the gas price thing. There was murders in New York and then talk about the this is a part that I'm fascinated about because I didn't know this that there was there was mob stuff going on in New York, right. You said you work with Henry hill from Goodfellas. He owned one

Jay Jay French: 33:25

of the bars or that we worked at? Yeah. And and so the whole Goodfellas vibe was not just in that bar, it was in probably 90% of the blog. I will tell you, no club owner ever came up to me and said I'm a mobster. Right? No. Boehner ever came up to me and said, we just killed somebody, okay. It was just more or less understood that there was an environment and the way they conducted their business and how they talk to you. You could reasonably assume that more or less there was some sort of investment plus it's a cash business so you know, mob wonders my through cash. But nobody ever said to me, I'm a mobster. Nobody ever said to me, I'm a bag I no one ever brought me in the room and said we're planning to kill this guy. Didn't happen,

Chuck Shute: 34:15

but didn't they burn your truck down?

Jay Jay French: 34:18

Well, the The truck was blown up by a rival club owner but having nothing to do with the underworld. Okay, he was just mad with the underworld added to the fact that we refuse to play his room because he was a racist. He was an overt racist, who made extremely horrific racist statements in my presence. And D his presence and DNI said, You know what, I don't like this guy. So let's not play his room anymore. So we stopped playing his room and within a year of us doing it one night and another club our truck was blown up. And it was a brand new truck. And while we were on stage playing, and someone said your truck is on fire, and they opened up the back door, there was about 1800 people in the room and there's my new truck in flames. In fact, the flames were so big that the truck that was next to it from another band that broke down the night before that melted that truck. So we didn't know who sabotaged the truck. But two years after that incident, we were playing yet another bar. And a woman walked up to me and said, Hey, you know, your truck was burned down a couple of years ago said yes, it goes. Well, my ex husband did it, because his father told him to go do it. And his father was this owner of this room. So again, this is hearsay. We never, you know, we obviously had the police showed up, you know, they did an investigation. They didn't know who did what. And nobody ever was prosecuted. But we did suffer. We did suffer the destruction of our of our truck by somebody and that purportedly was a rival club owner.

Chuck Shute: 36:12

That's crazy. I mean, just the tenacity, you guys had to just keep going. After all, these mishaps lineup changes and all sorts of these kinds of things. It's amazing. Yeah, well, you know, the club scene was unique in the tri state area. So you could you can earn a good living,

Jay Jay French: 36:29

except the difference between us and all the other bands, that were also playing on the circuit, once we put every dollar back into the business. We lived on a very low salary, we were making $10,000 a year each for years. You know, for a year, per person, like it's very low. We were being supported by girlfriends. And you know, also, you have to keep in mind this was 40 years ago, 40 years ago, gasoline was 50 cents a gallon, you know, and renting an apartment, or a house was cheap. No, the first band house was $300 a month. The second band house we got was$700 a month. You know, these are all scaled economics. You have to figure out how you run a business. You have expenses. Yeah, it's very not rock and roll.

Chuck Shute: 37:19

But you took that part on for a lot of the bands in the early days, and then a twisted business.

Jay Jay French: 37:25

Yeah. Because I didn't understand that I was creating a business model until I look back at it and realize I was creating a business model. I was just reacting to our daily, weekly monthly issues that we had. And over years and years and years of trying to make it I had to understand the difference in challenges, crises, catastrophes, you know, like what, like every day was a challenge. And then once a month, there was a crisis. And then once a year, there was a catastrophe. And the more you succeed past these problems, the more you have confidence to handle them as they come up. And that's really what I teach when I do my motivational speaking and my keynote speeches and what the book is about the book is called twisted business and the twisted is TWA STD, which tenacity wisdom, inspiration, stability, trust, excellence and discipline. And these are the seven traits that the band exemplified, although we didn't know it at the time,

Chuck Shute: 38:38

right, because it wasn't originally going to be called the twisted method of reinvention because it's all about reinventing and overcoming rejection is not a big theme to the book.

Jay Jay French: 38:47

Yeah, well, like I say, we were turned down more times in a bedsheet and over house, and we've come back more times and Freddy Krueger. True, yeah. But then again, you ask any artist, and they'll say the same thing. They may not say it that articulately or that funny way of saying it, but rejections huge in this business. If you can't handle rejection, you're in the wrong business, man, because that's all this business is about. It's no, this is about the word no. And you know, then you get told you know, you're too loud. You're too soft. You're too green. You're too blue. You too metal you to park your hairs this mean, we have these rejection letters from record labels. They don't want to color the lead singers, pants, heels. The amount of bullshit that you see, it's, you know, so after a while you start to get cynical about it. Yeah. And you know, and then it's hard to, but we were successful making money so we could continue on. I mean, people always say to me, how did you continue? Well, we were financially stable. Right. So the s in twisted, which is stability, that's we were stable, financially. Sure. However, the writing on the wall was that we weren't going to be because the Dragon Age was going up, which means the bars were going to get smaller. So there was a time crunch. I felt like we were on an iceberg that was melting. And we had to get plucked off by a helicopter. Or it melted right around us. Yeah. I've seen was a giant iceberg. That makes sense. No. And then for years, it was it then it started melting. Yeah. And so by 1982, the drinking age laws were changing. And if we didn't get out when we got out, the scene kind of crumbled.

Chuck Shute: 40:30

And eventually you did you got the, you know, you know, under the blade, and I think it's your biggest album, The 1984. That was interesting. The stay hungry, produced by Tom warm, and you said that, at first, he didn't like you guys. He didn't believe it. There's another person that doesn't even the producer of your band. He brought all these cover songs, which really offended Dee Snider.

Jay Jay French: 40:50

It's true. Yeah. And also, the record label didn't really like us. And the President of the record label in America hated us. And although he did bring Tom warming in, and woman was the hottest producer in the music business. That's true. Yeah. Was it any charge a lot of money, he gets paid a lot of money and he still gets paid a lot of money to this day makes a fortune off of our songs. Um, and Tom made a record that worked at you know, Dee has a real issue with Werman because Dee is a songwriter and didn't like the way Tom talked to him about his songs, and has never forgiven him.

Chuck Shute: 41:24

Really?

Jay Jay French: 41:25

Yeah, they've never they've never it's they've never No, I have had on again off again, relationship with Tom. I like Tom. He made it look. How can you argue a record that sold 6 million copies? Yeah, you can't. But you know, if you read if you read the the Walter yet knockoff book, he was the president of Columbia Records when Michael Jackson released thriller. If you read the Walter yet and a cough book called howling at the moon, he talks about Michael Jackson calling him up and telling him to take Quincy Jones's name off, the producer credits a thriller. What? And he said, Michael, I can't do that. And Mike goes, he didn't produce the record I did. This goes back to fundamental differences with managers, producers record company presidents, like who gave birth to who who's responsible for the success. Okay. So people resent other people's success they represent they resent people's claiming credit for people's success, which happens all the time. Everybody wants to be where they say success has a million fathers and failure is an orphan.

Chuck Shute: 42:28

That's a good one. I

Jay Jay French: 42:28

like that. And it's true. So who was responsible for Stay Hungry success? Was it MTV? Was it Tom? was it? Was it the president of Atlantic because he did promote us on MTV, was it the director of the videos Marty calendar was a Tom werman. You know, it was a combination of things. It was it was the right songs, right. It was the right songs at the right time. Was it a heavy sounding record? No. Tom didn't make heavy records. We didn't like his records he made with Motley Crue, we thought it sounded wimpy. He wasn't a heavy metal guy. You know, like Tom Alon, from Judas Priest, made heavy metal records, you could feel the heaviness, for lack of better way to describe it. We and we were that because the band wasn't a hair band. We were a bar band from New York, we were not a West Coast, you know, metal band, we were like this bar band, this heavy duty bar band. And Tom produced this in a way that was commercially very viable. So I appreciate that. And many years later, I'm, I was having a conversation with Ahmed arity. And the chairman of Atlantic Records, a super famous, you know, founder of Atlantic and the guy who you know, produce some of the great Drake, Charles, I mean, this story is legendary. And I asked him how he succeeded in a label that went from Ray Charles, you know, through Buffalo, Springfield, and cream, and then Led Zeppelin and AC DC and then twist the sister and then, like, how do you do that? Yeah. And he said, two things. He said, first of all, you hire competent people who can hear things that you can't hear because he said if he had a label of just music he loved he'd be broke. The other thing he said, which I talked about in the book, and which I believe is he said success is easy. If you don't mind who gets the credit. And that's a very, that's good. statement. That's really smart. You know, and so d gets the credit. You know, if didn't write the songs and sing the songs, you wouldn't be interviewing me. True. didn't make it because I made Twisted Sister make it. I am a piece of a part of a Kog Sure, it's greater than me. I bring this to it D brings to it. Mark Mendoza brings this to it at DOJ brings this to it. AJ pair brings this to it. You know, that's what happens. So are there people who take full credit for everything they do in this world? Yeah. But if you're really realistic, you understand that your success is a combination of, of confluences of circumstances and coincidences that you can't even predict. Uh huh. No timing, for sure. No, we hit it the right time when bands like us and MTV hit a Nexus. Who could have predicted a 10 years earlier, there was no MTV. Yeah, that's good point. There was no way of knowing who was going to be where and how that was going to work. I mean, I remember. So this conversation I had with Doug Morris, who was the president of Atlantic, on the fateful conversation I had with him in December 83. was, um, he said, Well, you know, I don't like your band. I never liked your band. But you know, you guys sold 100,000 albums of can't stop rock and roll without me putting any money into it, which means you have like a fan base. So he said, so next year, I'm going to spend whatever it takes to make you the biggest fan in the world. And when he said it to me, I was like, he has guy so full of shit, because I'm a New York guy was cynical as hell. I walked out of the room. Someone said, What do you say? I said, He's gonna make us the biggest band in the world. They said, that's great. I said, No, it's not He's full of shit. He's not going to do anything. So of course not. But he did say to me, he said, he said, You know this thing, you know, this thing called MTV? Yeah. And he goes, Well, do you know who owns MTV? I said, No, he said we do. I said, What do you mean? He said it's owned by a partnership of American Express. And Warner Music. I used it if you give me the right video was jammed on MTV. And so he did we have we have the right song The right producer made the right video Atlantic put the hammer down. Amazing.

Chuck Shute: 46:45

So why does the finally all

Jay Jay French: 46:47

the good here's the here's the point. The point is that with all the bad shit that happened to us for year in and year out yeah, this was a good thing.

Unknown: 46:56

Mm hmm.

Jay Jay French: 46:57

You know, so if you waited long enough

Chuck Shute: 47:00

it turns that's good. Yeah, this just like 12 years a long time to wait but the one question I had this so that big album Stay Hungry obviously three great videos three great singles. Why was burn in hell never released as a single or music video cuz I feel like that would have blown up do you think it was China was in the Pee Wee's big adventure movie and stuff but it wasn't too heavy at the time or because I listened to it now I'm like,

Jay Jay French: 47:23

new album. Oh rather just wanted to move forward. And then of course we made a mistake you know the first video from 19 eight from come out in place should have been fire still burns Hmm. Not leader of the pack. Putting that kind of that was a big mistake. Okay, but yeah, but yeah, there should have been a lot of things happening we should have released burned in hell that should have been a lot of different things going on. I didn't

Chuck Shute: 47:47

Yeah, I didn't know you guys had this video. be cruel to your school. I've never seen this video until this morning. I watched it. I'm like this is great. I love this. It's like the old school Twisted Sister video. I found out MTV didn't play it because they thought it was too graphic or something. Yeah,

Jay Jay French: 48:01

we were banned in every country but Norway and video today. It looks like it was made in Disneyland.

Chuck Shute: 48:10

Yeah. Right. I mean, it's like no I'm looking at it's like it's so funny that guys, he's a zombie and he's feeding himself food through his neck. I'm like, This is hilarious. But So did they give you a chance to edit it and cut it or were you just

Jay Jay French: 48:23

I don't remember it was a horrible time because the record label hated the video and they wouldn't support it and they didn't reimburse we paid for the video and they wouldn't reimburse us for the video so we got screwed there. We spent at the time it was among the most expensive videos ever made. Yeah, cuz Alice Cooper's in it Billy Joel Billy, it was Alice Cooper Clarence Clemons Billy Joe, they're on the record. Alice was in the video. Laney Khoisan the actress is in the zombie is this is the cook in the zombie kitchen? Who? Who is like cutting up the stuff? Yeah, that's a female who Lainey khazana she's a super famous actress. So she played the she played the chef in the zombie kitchen. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, that's cool. And the the label didn't share our vision and didn't support it, the thing fell apart.

Chuck Shute: 49:13

Right? And then you guys release another album, and then that the band breaks up but I kind of want to hear about this portion of you know, this was obviously a tough time in your life. 99 you go to bankruptcy court you're divorced. You know then at some point I'm always fascinated by this you're selling stereos because and I hear about these career changes by huge rock stars. And I never realized how common This was but talk about those days because that must have been a tough before seven does takes off because we'll get to that but that must have been a tough time for you to go from playing arenas to now you're selling stereos Um,

Jay Jay French: 49:47

well, in the book I describe these four levels that you deal with which is challenges crises, catastrophes and nuclear option. And the nuclear option is when the whole thing was blown up. The band de left and I just blew up, I really said the whole thing is over, I'm blowing it up, and the lawsuit happened and, and we I had to file for bankruptcy and I walked out of bankruptcy court you know, almost kind of half laughing at the absurdity of the whole thing because I'm supposedly smart. But, you know, there's there's two ways you can approach could really catastrophic issues in your life, this proactive and reactive and the difference is I was reactive, I was proactive, meaning I knew what was coming. And I was able to prepare myself for it. As opposed to something happening, like reactive crises, like you get a phone call because your best friend died in a car crash, you can't even process it or something. So I mean, I knew I knew this is all heading in a really bad way. And, and I decided, well, I'm blowing my life up to I'm going to get a divorce and change my wife and, and I did and I started managing a band, an artist with a local gym owner. And we had some success early on with them. And then it fell apart. And I needed a gig. My wife at the time was very successful. In the music industry, she was very successful. She was an executive assistant for a major label. And she was making a lot of money. So it wasn't like there was pressure on me to get a job, but I needed to get a job. And I used to buy really high end audio gear at lyric ifI, which was the preeminent hi fi store in in the world. I mean, high end audio stuff like crazy audio stuff, like people don't understand like, turntables, of course, $20,000 and amplifiers across $50,000 and speakers, of course, $100,000 and speaker cable, the cost $20,000 crazy stuff. I used to buy stuff there. And I was hanging out there because I had nothing to do and the owner kind of sense something was weird because I was hanging out too much. And he said, Well, you know a lot about this gear, do you want to sell it? And I went, and I needed a job really bad because it just went on self esteem. So I took the job. And I just said don't ever tell anybody what I do for a living who I was, I don't want to deal with this. Jay, what are you doing here selling? Anyone ever recognize, you know, I used to go to cut my hair off. I used to go to people's houses on Park Avenue to measure for stereos. And I had to go into the back door because I was the help. You know, this is me, right? So now all of a sudden, I don't walk through the front door of apartment buildings have to walk through the back door. And I would go to the back door and I go to their apartments and and invariably, I would see my records there. And I would never say I don't want to get into a conversation about it. So I never said a word to anybody. I would just Okay, cool. You know, I test out the equipment. And I did that for four years. Wow.

Chuck Shute: 52:54

So while you're doing that, then then you start managing another band called Red. Originally they were called the red threat then snake nation then crawlspace then eventually it became seven dust. How did you know that did or did you know that seven dust was gonna This is a got the it factor. This is the band. This is going to be huge because I mean, it didn't sound like you're in manage like 100 bands and one of them hit like you only hit manager a couple bands. Right? And this is a this is one that hit it right away.

Jay Jay French: 53:21

Well, you know, Sevendust is another long term project. When I fell into them through Dennis Berarti, who was the owner of Kramer guitars turned me on to somebody I don't know who it was, but somehow we found a band in Atlanta called Redd Threat. And they were an AC DC kind of band with really good bands. So we wrote to a production deal. And that fell apart and then they morphed into another band called Cupid's Arrow. And then a couple members change and that fell apart and they morphed into another band called Snake Nation. And then they lost a couple of other members that fell apart. And then at one point around, let's say it started in 1988 with Redd Threat. So at some point around 1992 I was in Atlanta, and I saw Snake Nation, and a band opened for Snake Nation called "Body & Sould" with a black lead singer and those zhaan. And I remember at that point, all the guys in Red Threat that were in the original band that I signed a production deal, they were all gone now they've been replaced like Twisted, interesting, like multiple changes, okay. And I said to the drummer Morgan Rose, I said, if you ever get that lead singer guy, and you've ever worked with him, let me know. And so 1995 Morgan called me and said, we got that guy. And my wife said you got a job as a stereo salesman. You had your shot in the music industry. It's over. Don't do it.

Chuck Shute: 54:59

Really

Jay Jay French: 55:01

But the singers really great. And I really think the band's good. And she said, Listen, you spent seven years chasing this band, going through all these changes, you spend a fortune of your own money doing demos, everything has come up empty handed. And I don't think you should do it. And I said to her, I want to try one more time. And she said, I don't want you to spend a dime. So I called Morgan and I said, Listen, man, I can't do it. I said, I can't get involved. My wife doesn't want me to get involved in it. And I have a life. I have a kid now. And Morgan said to me, we'll come to New York. And so you coming down to Atlanta? I went, Oh, man, you're willing to come up here to play for me because I because I couldn't fly down to Atlanta. I was working. And he said, Yes. And I said, Are you sure? How are you going to do that? And he goes, we'll rent a van and come up. Can you get us gigs? So I called up the bitter end. The Rockwood musical cbgbs. And a club called spiral, three, four rooms in New York. I knew pretty much the owners know. And the guy in the bitter end, which is a folk club, you know, not a rock club. They're a folk club. I mean, they're basically they go back to the 60s with Bob Dylan, and, you know, and Phil Ochs and all that stuff. And Kenny, the owner was a really nice guy. And I sent him the demo of I sent him a demo. And he goes, I like them. I'll book them. And I went, Oh, my God. So I called Morgan. I said, Okay, I got you for gigs. So they come up to New York, they play the bidder, and I have a film of this. They're called, they were called the crawlspace at this point, and, and there was like, maybe 10 people in the room before the band went onstage. And while the band played, everybody left, and I'm standing there with the camera. Sitting next to Kenny, because they were so loud. You have to understand the room was only 30 feet wide. And the band had Marshall set like the band was they were amazing. But this before them, it was a folk singer. And they blasted. People just walked out of the room and I apologize to Kay I'm so sorry, man. And he goes, No, it's okay. I love the demo. Fuck, I don't care. But across the street was the Rockwood saloon and I called up the owner and asked if I could book crawl space in there and she says, What were they from? I said language was only buck New York bands here she was and she didn't care that I was JJ French, a Twisted Sister. She was not going to book them. Well, they were so loud. That across the street was a Rockwood and Terry heard them came over and said to Kenny, at the bitter end, his band's great I want him to play the Rockwood. So he says, there's a manager. So she walks over to me. And she goes, my name is Terry Kenny. I said, Yeah, I know who you are. You told me to go fuck myself. I called you to go. I don't book bands are from New York. Because I'm sorry. They're great. Can they play now? So we walk the street. And they play. And I had a&r guys come down, they passed on it. Then they played cbgbs to about 20 people was empty. But some more a&r guys. They turned it down. And they played spiral, which was a club on the land, sea or house and street by Third Avenue. really fucked up neighborhood is all Joe's a junkie bar, like junkies. And what happened was on their way back to their hotel, they got stopped at a alcohol checkpoint on 12th Avenue. And the band was in two vans, and I was with one of the guitar players. And I don't know, I told the guys don't drink up here because we have checkpoints all over the city. So don't drink, please do not drink. So of course, they did. And they got to one checkpoint and the checkpoint I was with when the van. The police said to the kid who's the guitar player who was 17 they want to check his I don't drink you know. So they checked his blood alcohol level, which was right above which should be so they arrested him. And the cop looks at me. He goes, I know who you are. And I said goes, you're the guy to his sister said yeah, he goes, why didn't you tell me I wouldn't have I would have let you go. And I said because I could have told you and you could have arrested both of us. I don't know how it's gonna work, you know? Either way. So he says, Well, now we got to arrest your kids. So they arrest the guitar player. And the guitar player winds up in the tombs, which is our prison system. And it's convoluted and it's big. And it took us four days to locate them. Meanwhile, the band couldn't go back to Atlanta until they got the guitar play, right? Yeah. The kid was 17 he was traumatized. I'm sure like before we found him Finally, the reason why we had trouble finding him. He was a really pretty boy. And the police were afraid that he would be raped in prisons. They kept moving him from, from from jail to jail to keep him safe. So it took us four days to find him. Wow. And when he was so traumatized by the event that when he got back to Atlanta, he quit the band. He became a chef from what I understand. And Holland Lowry. We placed them. And Clint, of course, writes most of the material. So it shows you how fate can kind of intercede.

Chuck Shute: 1:00:29

Yeah, that's crazy.

Jay Jay French: 1:00:32

Yeah, so the kid, I think his name was Leah. He was a wonderful kid. And he was a great player. He looked great. He was great. But I think he was totally traumatized. And last I heard he had been out of the music was I could be wrong. I haven't seen a spoke for 25 years. I could be wrong. It was a wonderful kid. Anyway, they hired Clint. And Clint, of course, was the missing piece. Yeah. No. It's a great band. We did the demo. And I said to my wife came down and she said, Yeah, they're good. And then she said to me, Look, you can spend X amount of dollars on trying to get them signed. That's it. So I was able to do it. within the budget that I had,

Chuck Shute: 1:01:07

that's amazing. You're responsible. I mean, partly responsible for two giant x Twisted Sister and seven does. It's amazing. Well, again, I'm a piece of a wheel piece of the woods. Yeah, for sure. Right. I'm

Jay Jay French: 1:01:17

a piece of a wheel because if seven dots wasn't a great band, we're sitting here talking about right

Chuck Shute: 1:01:23

now. I mean, I think it's always even just these I don't know what you call them hired guns or whatever that you know, like Rudy sarzo plays with Ozzy and then Whitesnake. unquiet, right. I'm like, that's amazing that you can just keep going to all these huge bands. I think that's great. Yeah. Why wouldn't you want to be and I think it must be because like you said, they're willing to not be the star of the show and just

Jay Jay French: 1:01:42

not losing their credit. They're incredibly professional, professionally and incredibly reliable. They have the look, Joel Hoekstra, same thing you know, in Whitesnake, Joel is one of these journeymen guitar players who spectacular. Looks great. Always shows up on time. You know what Woody Allen says 90% of success is showing up on time. It's true. Yeah, that's good advice. show up on time do a job you supposed to do you stand a better chance than not getting a gig. Absolutely. So

Chuck Shute: 1:02:16

I'm sure there's a lot of this stuff is in your book. We've mentioned it several times. Again. It's called twisted business lessons from my life and rock and roll. Are there pictures in this book as well from some of the stuff? Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. I can't wait. And then is there anything else? Like? Is there a tease you can give for the book? Like, what is something in the book that's really big, that's never been revealed? That you can give us a little bit of a tease for Is there anything? Well,

Jay Jay French: 1:02:40

I just think there's, there's so many stories. There's hundreds of stories in the book, you know, hundreds of them. Yeah, the derivation of the name JJ, French has never been written about. And I tell that in the book, you know, for the first time ever, I never told the band members I never told I mean, I created this image of JJ French and that's not me. That's, I am john French. I am not j different digit. French is a is a creation. And I needed a creation because I didn't want to be. I didn't want to be falsely absorbed into a fake rock and roll lifestyle, which was bullshit. I never bought into celebrity ever. And I live where I live all my life. And I in my where I live, nobody knows what I do. And I don't want him to know what I do. And you know, I don't like that much publicity. And you know, other people love it. Singers love that stuff. You know, I mean, that's why they lead singers. I mean, there's a certain narcissistic streak. I mean, we teach D all the time. These the archetype, lead singer, phenomenal talent, great vocalist, great songwriter. And he is d he's no longer Danny Snyder. I mean, he left Danny Snyder, in Baldwin, you know, and you gave him the name D that was not wasn't in the name. So yeah, so he left. Danny Snyder, you know, in 1976, the day that we call them D. That was the last time I call them Danny.

Chuck Shute: 1:04:11

And you guys, you obviously haven't john, right? You guys have a good relationship now. But I think is that one another thing you talk about in the book is how you guys, you know, you kind of the friendship and the band kind of broke up at the same time. And then when you guys have this, like, you know, reunion show, that's when you rekindle the friendship with Dee and there's is that

Jay Jay French: 1:04:28

DNA? No, I go into depth about how that happened. Yeah, yeah. That's, that's a very emotional part for me. And that's in the book though. Our relationship that's in the book, it's in the book, okay. And it was, um, a credit to him. And me. I mean, we were both adults at the time. And we decided to add we decided to be adults and not children. Okay, but then again, we were both humbled by the by the band's failure. We both filed bankruptcy right? both ways. lost everything. You know D lost all of it. D was surviving off of his wife's money as a hairdresser. And he would be passing out promotional flyers under windshields, at catering halls on Long Island on a bicycle after Twisted Sister stock, you have to understand this is huge. The fact that the band was able to come back at the level that it came back at, which was bigger than we were ever in the 80s. Yeah, that's crazy. The greatest thing about the band?

Chuck Shute: 1:05:35

Yeah, you said that they are the most twisted sisters the most licensed that do your music. That's it? Is that because of you going out and getting that work? Or is that people coming to you and wanting the song nation combination? Okay.

Jay Jay French: 1:05:47

Yeah, first of all, I don't think one could have predicted in 1975 or 76, that we will rock you and We are the champions would become these monster arena sized hits, right? They did. I don't think anyone could have I, there's no way we could have envisioned that I want to rock and we're not going to take it we're going to embody the two most licensed heavy metal songs for commercials, TVs, shows, radio commercials, internet ads, product placement, there's no way we could have predicted it. It started in 1909. Was it 1999 was the first license. So I mean, I thought something like that was gonna happen when when I was in bankruptcy court, I explained. And I go into the depth in the book, a conversation I had with the judge when he wanted to take the name for me because I own the the trademark for the name. And I made a plea to him that I thought that the band could someday come back and possibly have a commercial to tide detergent in 10 years. That's what I said, it's so smart. And I said that because I'd seen in England, the song Stand By Me being used for a commercial and the song went to number 130 years after the song was number one. And I thought that's just England being quirky. You know, the song winds up in a tide commercial or something and winds up being number one, again from 1961. And I said to the judge, I said, Well, maybe in 10 years, we're not going to take it we'll be using a tide commercial. And if that happens, I want the rights to be able to put the band back together again and and maybe reunite and maybe make enough money to put my kids through college. I said I don't even have a kid but maybe I will have one and the judge one that's a compelling argument. Let me keep the name.

Chuck Shute: 1:07:42

That's right. So if you didn't if you didn't let you keep the name, what happens to it if you go back has been owned by

Jay Jay French: 1:07:49

American Express winterland all companies that were part of the bankruptcy filing. Okay, wow, they all came to the hearing. Okay, well, that's cool. They let you keep it then whatever crumbs they could grab from us. Yeah. But I convinced the judge that we were worthless at the time who we were, it was 1989. Sure and worthless. So anyway, 10 years to the month of that statement of that statement I made to the judge, you want to talk about timing, you want to talk about my inherent wisdom. The greatest coincidence could possibly be that my bravado at that statement, which I claim 10 years from now, we're going to be licensed to tie detergent with 10 years to the month that statement contracts nasal spray license, we're not going to take it was Wow, we had you know, all of a sudden, I got a letter from Warner Music or something. Contracts just licensed the song. So in 2003, I suggested Well, we, we I said we should re record stay hungry and the band agreed to re record stay hungry and I said we should use our songs instead of Warner music's masters and sell our own masters to keep make more money. So we started doing that. So we recorded the whole album called still hungry, which by the way, was a heavier version of stay hungry. So it was the way we had envisioned stay hungry to sound was the way we recorded it for still hungry. And, and 90% of all of the rerecord 90% of all of the ads, since then have been using RV Records, which from a financial standpoint is huge.

Chuck Shute: 1:09:24

It helps you a lot more in a lot more. Okay,

Jay Jay French: 1:09:27

so that became important. And as time went on, the songs just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And I sit back and marvel at the fact that just when I think well who could still want to do it. Facebook last year I want to rock was the Superbowl ad. Rachael rays, dog food. nutrish just licensed, we're not going to take it for a year in a massive national advertising campaign. So it just continues on and on and on and on. Like every day, you get these emails, so and so for this song so for that song so for this song, so for that, it's, it's amazing.

Chuck Shute: 1:10:08

That is amazing. That's great. If

Jay Jay French: 1:10:09

it was, you couldn't have predicted it. More so than a kiss song. You know, you don't hear kiss songs on commercials and TV, you know, AC DC rarely once in a while. journey. I mean, to be fair, journeys don't stop believing is used an awful lot.

Chuck Shute: 1:10:24

Okay. karaoke to

Jay Jay French: 1:10:27

fluid max. Don't stop thinking about tomorrow. Very big. Those songs are big. There's like 10 songs that are used over. Think about this, there's 100 million song. Why is it every time there's a medical commercial, and there's a new drug? They only use one song they use I feel good by James Brown. They could use a million songs. But you hear I feel good. Why? A it's a great song.

Unknown: 1:10:56

Yeah. B it

Jay Jay French: 1:10:57

makes people feel really good. They attach good vibe to it. Okay, so we, we meaning journey through and Mac, Twisted Sister James Brown, we benefit by the continuing use because the more it's used, the more people want to use it, because the more they know it, the more comfortable they feel with it. Mm hmm. So you may be in a new band and go Why can't Ark song be used for tide detergent? And, and you know, the truth is, maybe it could maybe if you were able to convince the music buyer for that product, that you're the song should be yours. Maybe. But here's what happens. These guys sit around in a room, these advertising executives, and they got a new product. And they go Okay, we got a new car, the Ford fillable lab, you know, what do we use? How about I want to? How about how about don't stop thinking about tomorrow? How about don't stop believing? How? Because it's easy? Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 1:12:06

And a lot of those guys don't know music. They don't know indie rock and stuff.

Jay Jay French: 1:12:09

No. And also the public doesn't either. That's true. Okay. So the buying public feels comfortable. And I want to rock and D wrote these amazing songs. We're not going to take it was a couple of years ago, there was a list of the Top 30 songs that that unite America. Okay, this is an NPR, the top 30 songs unite America. So I'm not even thinking twisted on the list. I'm just reading the songs you know, born in the USA blowing in the wind, times are changing. We Shall Overcome. Like, you know, we're talking standards. And it keeps going goes 3029 2827 twice. So the number one, you get to number three, and it's we're not going to take it Wow, that's high on the list. And two songs above us were two gospel songs that I swear I don't even know them. Hmm. It wasn't like people get ready. There's a train to come. And I thought you know, that would be I could see that. But we were number three. That's huge. And I sat there and went, Okay. You know, I asked Dee how he feels about that. He's written the songs in these songs. They're not just famous here. When Brexit was happening, and they won, and people were arguing whether or not they wanted Brexit. They were singing we're not going to Brexit in

Unknown: 1:13:35

Parliament.

Jay Jay French: 1:13:37

Yeah, my daughter is English. And she goes, Dad, look at this. And she is she she she recorded off the TV, the BBC News. Wow. We're not going to Brexit.

Chuck Shute: 1:13:47

And didn't they use the song in? It was one of the Middle East wars. They tried to get somebody to come out of the hole or something like that. And they played chess

Jay Jay French: 1:13:54

that was what was that? No, that was when Noriega when that went this was this was in 1986 or 87 when the dictator of Panama, Noriega was, I think, holed up in his palace, okay. And the night and so there was a political cartoon with the members of Motley Crue and Twisted Sister jumping out of an airplane. And like we're screaming something and Motley Crue was Shout at the Devil and and the joke was that here's bands that are accused by the American by our government is being horrible, but we were being used as a defensive weapon in an effort to protect America from a dictator,

Chuck Shute: 1:14:42

right?

Jay Jay French: 1:14:43

kind of funny, you know, because, because life is weird because here we are 1985 pmrc is set up nine a six. They dragged me down to Washington to defend himself on videos that are just obviously cartoon videos not designed to destroy the moral fabric of the youth of America. And these going What do you guys nuts? I mean, these are cartoons. This is funny stuff. And, and because of that we were harassed all over the United States laws were passed to keep us out of cities. In Texas anti rock laws, you probably don't know this or realize this. But we were the laws were passed deliberately, because they thought they were keeping Twisted Sister out of these cities, because we were singing about sex with children, dead people in animals.

Chuck Shute: 1:15:34

Yeah, so that's crazy. But what are your thoughts because it feels like it's like we've I thought we kind of beat this whole censorship thing. And now it feels like it's kind of gone full circle. And now there's all this censorship stuff coming back. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think some of its good though, or is this sensor censoring the right things? Or the woke part of it? Yeah, I mean, I guess that's a term for just seems like there's a lot of things that are being canceled or edited out of movies and TV shows from earlier in the day and I don't know it's just it's it's it's kind of I don't know where it ends. It's just censorship

Jay Jay French: 1:16:08

ends either. You can't make a movie like Blazing Saddles again. Sure. Yeah, that never makes sense. You can't make a now you can't make Putney Swope, you can't make Animal House again the way it was. I mean, think about this. In 1961 one of the biggest songs of the year was called if you want to be happy for the rest of your life. Better make an ugly woman your wife on my personal point of view, get an ugly girl to marry you because a pretty girl is basically going to confuse you but an ugly girl will be so grateful that you married her that she'll be the best cook in the world. This was the number one track in 1961

Chuck Shute: 1:16:43

What is this song

Jay Jay French: 1:16:44

called? I don't know if you want to be happy for the rest of your life. Okay, I Jimmy soul. Oh, wait, I didn't know that song. I just didn't ever know if I knew the lyrics. Your life better make an ugly woman your wife? Yeah, my personal point of view. Get an ugly girl to marry you. Do you think that song could ever be released today? No, no.

Unknown: 1:17:03

in a million years?

Jay Jay French: 1:17:06

I've really not. Never so. And then you have Louis Louis, that was banned by the FBI because nobody can understand the lyrics. They thought it was dirty. And the song was the number two song in 1963. And, you know, I think if you listen to the song, you can understand what he's saying. But, but back then the controversy was he was saying something dirty or nasty. So the FBI ban had the song banned. Anyway. I don't know where it all ends. It's. It's tough. It is really? It's really tough. I don't know. But fortunately for us, we're not in the crosshairs at this point. In our plane, so

Chuck Shute: 1:17:50

yeah. What would you guys ever play again? I know you kind of did the farewell tour. Would you ever do some one off shows or festivals or something? Look,

Jay Jay French: 1:17:58

I used to say never. I'll never say never. But we have never discussed it. Okay.

Chuck Shute: 1:18:06

Well, there's the headline never say it. Twisted Sister Never say never. There we go. Right. Well, we

Jay Jay French: 1:18:10

have a song called Never say never. Yeah, no. I, we used to say it would never happen. I will no longer say that. We came back in 2003 for basically a two year reunion, which lasted 14 years. And it lasted longer than the original band lasted with AJ. It was an incredible ride. And when we walked offstage, I personally just said, that's it for me. I'm had it but who knows? Okay, I

Chuck Shute: 1:18:41

mean, do you don't don't miss playing live like even just like at a club, like you ever get up and just jam or anything? Or?

Jay Jay French: 1:18:47

No. I don't even play around my house. I got guitars everywhere because my wife says you got to keep practicing. I can go months without picking up a guitar.

Chuck Shute: 1:18:58

So what are you into now more than the house? You're just more into the business side? Is that what you focus on? And that's what you love? Right? I

Jay Jay French: 1:19:04

have a right for several magazines. Right? Yeah. The podcast. Yeah. And your book? Yeah. I don't know what is the left to prove in the music industry. For me, you know you do 9000 plus shows me for me because remember, I go back before D and Eddie. So I had those 3000 extra sets. Yeah, came on. And I'm not missing it right now. And also I'm much older and the body doesn't react the way it is we're not all Keith Richards

Chuck Shute: 1:19:35

Well, no, it is the irony is that you can you and D are totally like sober. You don't do any drugs or alcohol and so mark to nothing. Yeah. And so it's crazy that Keith Richards can be that old and so play and is he did he just now quit drinking the last couple of years or something or

Jay Jay French: 1:19:49

I met his match. The other night. I was I was at a wedding and I was sitting next to his manager as a matter of fact. Oh,

Unknown: 1:19:55

Jay rose,

Jay Jay French: 1:19:56

you know, and we were talking about Keith. He's pretty remarkable. You know, I like to figure out what gene pools came

Unknown: 1:20:05

from. Right?

Jay Jay French: 1:20:07

Probably amazing. Yeah, but he does have arthritis. And it is hard for him to play I understand as a guitar player that hangs out backstage now in case Keith can't do the guitar parts Oh, and they need someone to play the guitar parts. So on certain days when he really can't they have a backup player.

Chuck Shute: 1:20:25

I didn't know that.

Jay Jay French: 1:20:26

Yeah, I mean, you know, so look, Keith is a legend. For sure. Legend. The reason why I play guitar, the way I do is because of a guitar solo that he took on the intro of a song called down the road a piece, which is a Chuck Berry song that Rolling Stones did and Keith's guitar intro to that song is the first lead solo I ever learned, and became the basis of every lead solo I ever played. So I give him the credit. And his book is extraordinary.

Chuck Shute: 1:20:51

Oh, well, I'm excited for your book. So when is it officially come out? September 21 21st. Okay, well look for that.

Jay Jay French: 1:20:59

podcast is the JJ French Connection that JYJY fr NCH. The JJ French Connection, you can reach me via email at ask JJ at ask ask Jay Jay. Jay. yjyts@gmail.com. You can email me any questions you want. I've got a great lineup of guests. I've got some great guests coming. Oh, yeah. So I appreciate you having me on.

Chuck Shute: 1:21:23

Yeah. And I'd like to end each episode with a charity. I think I understand you work with a couple different ones, one for prostate cancer and one for I don't even know how to say this word is it you UBI this

Jay Jay French: 1:21:34

UBI This is an eye disease is the leading cause of blindness among girls in America. Mm hmm. And it's basically arthritis of the eyes. It has to do with the UV lens in your eye being destroyed by your white blood cells because they think there's a disease going there. And it's part of the rheumatoid arthritis School of diseases. It's not curable, but it's treatable. And because my daughter was treated at an early age, she has her eyesight, otherwise, you'd probably be blind today. So I raise money for the organization that treats it, which is a mouthful. It's the ocular immunology and UBI this foundation, but the IO u f.

Chuck Shute: 1:22:09

Okay, so I'll put

Jay Jay French: 1:22:10

that in the notes. Yeah, ocular immunology and UBI foundation IO, u f, if you want to contribute to the IO, u f, you can do it online. And also for zero cancer, which is an end to prostate cancer. I had prostate cancer, and I was treated. And so I help raise awareness.

Chuck Shute: 1:22:26

Yeah, my dad had prostate cancer too. And he was treated and he's doing good now. So yeah, that's great. I love to hear those stories. Well, thank you so much for doing that. I'll put all this stuff in the notes. And also I'll put it out on social media. Well, thanks for having me on your show. Yeah. All right. Well, we'll talk later. You got it, man. You take care. All right, you too. Bye. Bye, boy. Well, I don't know about you. But I was on the edge of my seat in that interview. And I got to tell you, I listened to a lot of interviews with JJ. And I don't remember hearing a lot of those stories that he told me. So hopefully, they're exclusive to my podcast only. But if you want to learn more about JJ, definitely check out the documentary we are twisted fucking sister. It's free on Tuesday, if you don't mind the ads and also his book will be out in September. So definitely check that out as well. Follow JJ and Twisted Sister on social media to keep up with any updates. And you can follow me as well. And if you'd like to support the show any activity that you have on social media or YouTube such as comments, like share, subscribe, etc. That will help me out quite a bit. And if you want to go that extra mile you can write me a review wherever you listen. Thank you so much for taking the time to make it all the way through this episode. I hope you have a great rest of your day. And remember to shoot for the moon.