Chuck Shute Podcast

Sean Dowdell (Grey Daze band & Tattooed Millionaire book)

February 15, 2021 Sean Dowdell Season 3 Episode 103
Chuck Shute Podcast
Sean Dowdell (Grey Daze band & Tattooed Millionaire book)
Show Notes Transcript

Episode 103- Sean Dowdell! Sean has accomplished a lot of great things already including starting Club Tattoo and writing a book about his experience titled “Tattooed Millionaire.” His  band Grey Daze has a new album out titled  "Amends." It features original vocals of Chester Bennington plus members of Korn, Bush, Breaking Benjamin and others. This was a great conversation about business, music and much more! 

00:00 - Intro
01:12 - Family Background
05:01 - Starting Music & Playing in Bands
06:15 - Chester Bennington Audition
07:13 - Grey Daze Early & Phoenix in the 90s 
10:10 - Starting Tattoo Shop - Club Tattoo 
13:49 - Opening Up a Second Shop & Fighting City
15:45 - Band Breaks Up & Chester's Success 
20:15 - Guitarist Brain Tumor & Making Amends 
23:50 - Chester Passes Away & Suicidal Thoughts 
28:00 - Bullied & Insecurities 
29:22 - Learning from Failures & San Francisco 
34:35 - Teaching Employees WHY 
36:30 - Problems with Employees 
38:50 - What if No Business? 
40:44 - Grey Daze New Album 
43:15 - People Unhappy With Grey Daze Album 
45:59 - Producers 
46:33 - Future Projects 
48:04 - A New Leaf Foundation 
49:05 - Wrap Up 

Sean Dowdell Website:
https://seandowdell.com

A New Leaf Foundation: 
https://www.turnanewleaf.org/about/foundation.html

Chuck Shute Website:
http://chuckshute.com

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Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Chuck Shute:

Welcome to the show and thanks for checking us out. My guest today is Sean Dell Dell. Now Shawn is doing press right now for his gray days album, which is a collection of songs from his band with Chester Bennington of Linkin Park. So they what they did is they reworked the songs and they brought in special guests from bands like Korn, Bush and helmet. And I have to say, it does sound really great. I love this new album. And he tells me there's more songs to come. So besides playing drums for gray days, he also owns tattoo shops called club tattoo. And this is one of the biggest names in the tattoo business. And their clients include everyone from Miley Cyrus to slash. So that's a big thing that he's doing too. He also wrote a book about his life called tattooed millionaire. And he does public speaking events. So definitely a lot to talk about with Shawn. And I really enjoyed chatting with him. We talked about some deep stuff. We talked about business music, and he had some funny stories to tell as well. So it's great stuff. Check it out. Welcome, Shawn Dell, Dell. I hope I said that right. Sure. shaunda. Dell, Dell to the chuck shoot podcast, we have a lot to talk about, actually. Because I when your publicist book this, she sent out the thing in gray days, and I didn't know what it was. And it took me a couple days to listen. And I listened to the songs and I was like, I really liked this. And so then I was like, Yeah, man, I want to do this. And I want to, you know, talk to this guy who made this amazing music. And then I started doing my research. And I was like, Oh, you've done a lot more than just music. You've got tattoo parlors, you've got a book, you do public speaking. So there's a lot to talk about here.

Sean Dowdell:

All right, yeah. I'm glad to talk about anything you'd like.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, awesome. Well, how are you doing today? First of all, I suppose I should start with that.

Sean Dowdell:

I'm doing great. I'm feeling good. ran a couple miles this morning in a good mood.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, well, that's good to hear. So, yes, so if we go back to the beginning, I think it's kind of interesting. So your parents, your your, like, your dad was an accountant, and your mom worked at American Express. And they had a good work ethic, but they weren't big dreamers. It was actually your grandfather. That was the dreamer. So tell me about his influence in your life.

Sean Dowdell:

So he was probably my, the first entrepreneur, my family that I'm aware of his name is Russell and he opened his first business just prior to World War Two, he opened up a print business in in Chicago, and then he got drafted into the armed services, the Coast Guard during World War Two. And then when he got back, he continued his print company, and then ended up moving out to Arizona with his family. And he really, you know, I spent a lot of time with my grandparents when I was younger, and he just really instilled at an early age that I was capable of doing anything I put my mind to doing, and not to let other people put limitations on what it was I couldn't and couldn't accomplish. It's really that simple. He just made it very simple for me, like, you can do whatever you choose to do. And as soon as soon as I understood that, I was able to do a lot of things early on. My parents were really hard workers, my dad a mom, I mean, I don't I maybe remember them calling in sick to work. Maybe a total of three or four times my entire childhood. They were always that just the nine to five hard working blue collar workers that, you know, I wouldn't say they weren't big dreamers because I think early on in their life, they did, but they had three children early on, you know, I think your mom was maybe 20 to 23 by the time she had that the third one of us and then you had the the horrible economic conditions of the 70s and the jimmy carter administration that just kind of ran the economy into the ground in America for, for for for young entrepreneurs in the 70s. It was really really difficult. So my parents they just I think they went the more the safe route then. Okay. And the trying to live through their dreams because so many things. Were just getting crushed at that time. I mean, my mom told me stories of the gas lines. You're probably Oh,

Chuck Shute:

my dad told me the same stories. How have you had to line up to get gas at a gas station?

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, for three and four hours? Yeah, your car with gas and I can't even imagine what that's like.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, my Yeah. My dad said my mom would have to go do it. And and then give the car to my dad because he didn't have to had to go to work. So he's like, I don't have time to go wait. So he'd like she dropped him off for work. And then she goes sit in the line for three or four hours and get gas. It's crazy.

Sean Dowdell:

What a What a horrible scenario. Right. So yeah, I think there was more situational circumstances, why my parents chose Yeah, they did. And they just wanted to keep the roof over the head. But it wasn't from a lack of energy or a work ethic for sure.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. So but so going back to you in the Dreams. You felt like you must have fallen in love with music at some point. And you started playing the drums at age 17. And right away like you started getting you started playing in bands you had shaunda Dell and friends question mark. And that was your first band, but then gray days, it was like seven or eight months later and you guys like you guys have like three records already. I mean, that's pretty that's pretty early to have success in a band.

Sean Dowdell:

We know is really cool is when I was a teenager at age 1415 and 16. I had a bunch of friends that were in bands, okay, we would hang out the rehearsal studios or if they were lucky enough to get a show locally, we would go to the shows that was rare, but I was around music a lot. I just didn't play an instrument. And then finally I I just basically told myself learn the drums. My uncle was a great drummer. And he showed me some stuff and I just started playing so I being around it so much for years at a time. Before I actually immersed myself into it. There was already kind of a roadmap there of what to follow. Okay, okay, I'm gonna get a rehearsal place now we got to get all the band, you know, each band position locked in and then we got to start writing songs or playing covers whichever direction and that's really how we got started really had a good road map from from my friends back in the scene before I start playing.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. And so you had Chester come in. He was recommended through a mutual friend in his audition. He, he's saying a live by Pearl Jam. And you said he nailed it?

Sean Dowdell:

Yes, he did. I mean, he was 15 years old. And my friend said, This kid sounds just like Eddie Vedder. You should have him come in and try to sing. So we bring him down in rehearsal. And he shows up, and he's a scrawny little kid. And I just remember feeling like, oh, man, this guy is not gonna be. And then of course, he's saying, and, he blew our jaws to the ground. It's like, what? He was so good. And so young that I was only 17 at the time. So you just knew when somebody could sing that they could sing, or they couldn't. And he, he could he could he could throw down at a young age. And of course, he got a lot better with practice. And once he joined the band, and were able to start writing and doing this thing, you know, 3,4, 5 times a week, and it became something that we were obsessed with. Yeah,

Chuck Shute:

yeah. And you guys had a lot of success. Like I said, the three records and then you headlined the whiskey a go go, you open for bush and no doubt, and you're headlining your own shows. Can Can you paint a picture though of like, the music scene in Phoenix back in the 90s? When you played in it, like I know, there was the mason jar I've heard of, and did you ever, like run into the Gin Blossoms or any other?

Sean Dowdell:

So so the Gin Blossoms were a little bit before? Yeah, about three, four years ahead of us. Okay, but they really did lay a great foundation for other bands. So at the time in Arizona, there was something called the Tempe scene or the Tempe sound. Yeah, we were not that okay. Right. Yeah, it was the Jim blossoms bands like dead hot workshop,

Chuck Shute:

Roger Cline, refreshments or whatever. Yeah, had

Sean Dowdell:

refreshments, refreshments kind of evolved from that whole scene. And when gray started getting noticed on the map, the refreshments, were just getting a record deal. I think with mercury at the time, maybe I'm wrong on that. But I remember playing a couple of showcases with those guys at a place called the electric ballroom that was really the only real showcasing venue in town at the time there was there was a place called the Roxy. But it wasn't as cool as the electric ballroom that was a 1500 1800 seater. And we eventually were able to start packing that place on our own. And that's what really started getting the labels to notice us. But as far as the sound in Arizona, we didn't sound like anybody else. You either had really heavy metal, basically bands trying to sound like Metallica or megadeath Oh, yeah, old school metal bands, which was not our gig at all, or you had the Tempe sound. And although the refreshments, Roger, kind of the refreshments, those guys were part of that Tempe sound, they were really able to do something unique. And we had a lot of respect for them because they weren't just biting off what the Jim blossoms had already done. You know, we respected the Jim blossoms. But we never we weren't in that we weren't in that scene. Yeah, we create our own our own niche.

Chuck Shute:

Right. So did you do a lot of covers in the beginning or was it mostly originals or mixer?

Sean Dowdell:

Now we played a ton of covers. Okay. Matter of fact, our first show was all covered tunes. Okay. There was another band that kind of had a breakout success called the funk junkies back back when we were just hitting on all cylinders. We did a couple showcases with them. They ended up getting signed to Interscope and they did a deal for the Tommy Boy soundtrack. And we ended up becoming good friends with those guys after after our music life, so to speak. But those guys were really breaking the mold as far as it was nothing out there that sounded like them. So we knew that there was something out there for us if we just carved our own path. And that's really what we stayed true to long term. You know? Yeah. Once we started to know what gray days was what we were about, we understood what our mood was. We were dark. We were emotional. We were sad. I mean, all those things. Were an emotional band. And and we knew that that was a different path than what everyone else in Phoenix was trying to do.

Chuck Shute:

Right? Yeah. So and then but you know, despite your success with that band, it wasn't paying the bills, which is. So you, that's when you decided to open up this tattoo shop. Right. You left you dropped out as you were you a philosophy major, as I heard.

Sean Dowdell:

Oh, man, you did your research. Yeah, I was a philosophy major issue. And I was in a second semester of my senior year, and I had just opened up club tattoo with our bass player, mace at the time, and we were touring, I was, you know, we were starting to do stuff like the whiskey and, and stuff out of town. And I was waiting tables full time, and I just opened my business. And I was in school full time, and just something had to give Yeah, I just couldn't do it all. And when I told my parents, I was dropping out to pursue my business, my entrepreneurial dream, you know, they thought I was crazy. They thought I was foolish. They still said, You know what? We support you. So I'll give them that. But, and I think a lot of parents would, would feel that the kid was being foolish if they came and told them they were dropping out with six credits to go before they got their bachelor's degree. And we're going to open up a tattoo parlor in the 90s. Yeah, didn't really make a lot of sense, from my parent's perspective, but I just had a vision of what I wanted to do. Mm hmm. And chased it.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. So go. So going back to when you started it. You started the shop with$8,000. How did you get the initial money for that? Because I'm assuming that was a down payment on a bigger loan, or that was that wasn't the whole loan was it?

Sean Dowdell:

There was no loan at all. That's everything I had to put down on the on the lease my deposit, furniture, paint tile, the whole deal eight grand, was it?

Chuck Shute:

Oh, that's all you had total? How did you get the grand was that just from waiting tables and saving and stuff?

Sean Dowdell:

It was I saved money, wow. Nine months, and just saved up. And initially it was we're supposed to be Mason, I were supposed to be partners. And he was supposed to come up with a grant. I was supposed to come up with a grant. And I came up with my money. And he didn't come up with his money. So we didn't get to do a lot of this stuff. But we had already signed the lease. And we were already on. Yeah, you know, just kind of fell into what it was at that point? Well, yeah, you

Chuck Shute:

had a good business idea. Because, like you said, there's only eight tattoo shops in the area in the whole state of Arizona. And you hate the term tattoo parlor, by the way you like to call in a tattoo shop and your guyses was the thing was going to become more upscale. It wasn't going to be like sketchy, where people were scared to go in it was placed that girls could go in and not feel afraid. But so I'm curious about like your business plan. You know, we have 1000 did you have like fiscal goals and tax stuff? Or did you just learn all that shit as you went?

Sean Dowdell:

I literally said, this is a cool idea. Let's give it a try. Not just business knowledge. Wow.

Chuck Shute:

Because your degrees in philosophy. So I mean, you didn't. That's crazy.

Sean Dowdell:

You know, I earned my business acumen through trial and error and learning how to fail, respectively. But at the same time, there's a lot of lessons that that I had to pick up and, and not just not go bankrupt really was the goal the first year. So, you know, I eventually became a very astute business person and very successful entrepreneur. But the first couple years were very scary, you know, almost went out of business a few times. Yeah, I failed a lot. And, you know, it's funny to even hear your question. Did I have, you know, pro formas and projections? No, I didn't even couldn't even understand what that was.

Chuck Shute:

That's so fascinating. No, but yeah, because you also you you were fighting the city at one point, because they were gonna have a white real, and you thought that would kill your business, all the construction, no one's gonna be able to get to your shop. So you opened up another shop, and then you thought the first one was just gonna die out. But then that like helped the first shop. And so they both exploded.

Sean Dowdell:

And you really did your research. I like this. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not used to that, by the way. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, so I did, I bought the city of Tempe and they were putting a light rail with for those that you don't know what that is. It's basically an aboveground train that two people mover Mm hmm. That just basically right in the middle of the street, and it went right in front of our store and basically cut off the entrance to our store. And basically, there's some good guidance from my father who was involved in the, the accounting side of the of the state budget on the on the light rail. I saw the writing on the wall real fast that it was going to put us out of business. And we opened up our second store, eventually, the through the popularity of the business and what we are doing with the branding that we had had acquired by that time, we were able to make both businesses a success for the five or six years I ended up selling that first studio and it's no longer in business. The light rail really did put out Eventually, and the light rail ended ended up killing over 50 businesses along that street. It's it's a, it's a death to small business when there's literally huge construction cranes for two or three years in front of your business. There's no way to win that. Yeah. And we saw that we saw them beginning but it's really what sparked our ability to expand my wife and I really became business partners right around that time. And she came into the business and we just really expanded fast and and took on a whole different understanding of how to become a brand and not just a one off mom and pop shop.

Chuck Shute:

Right? No. And meanwhile, the band around this time or before whatever you guys, it was 98. I think the band breaks up. And you didn't talk to Chester for like two years, I think after the first Lincoln Park record came out came out. But you You said that you were really proud of his success, even though you guys weren't talking. And I believe that because you don't you know, when people are bitter, it's usually because they're not six, but you're sick. Because you're successful in your own right, you're doing your own thing, and you're successful.

Sean Dowdell:

So I, you know, maybe when I was really on a different philosophy, and I was a little bit more prone to jealousy and stuff like that, but I just kind of moved past that I stopped trying to limit what my success was determined on what other people were doing that just doesn't make any sense. It kind of you get trapped in this little bowl of petty jealousy and wondering why things aren't happening to you. And then you have to come to the realization that things don't happen to you, they happen for you. And whether or not you take advantage of the moment that is in front of you, really dictates the the sense of how far you can take that and it's really up to you. So that's where my mindset was, and I owned a recording studio at the time. That Hybrid Theory came out I had club tattoo and a recording studio. And the record labels used to send me huge boxes of CDs of their of their upcoming artists. I was what was called an influencer at the time, so they would ask for my feedback, okay. And I remember the day I got the the disc called Hybrid Theory from Warner Brothers. And listed the band members I saw Chester's name on I was like No shit, okay. And I put it in the studio. And I said, I listen. I was like, this is really good. And I went home, I played it for my wife. And she goes, What do you think I said, I think it's fucking great. This is gonna be huge. And sure enough, you know, six, eight months later, it was changed to linkin park and, and it was all over the place. And he and I were talking but his success wasn't just determined with my involvement. That's one of the things that I never understood the people that would say, Are you are you pissed off that he made it? I'm like, Are you stupid? No, I feel like I was a part of that. Like, I'm proud of him for that. Why would you ever want somebody who cared about to fail? That's so small minded. I would be heartbroken if Chester wanted me to fail after we broke out. That's just not what we got into it for.

Chuck Shute:

So why Then why did you guys break up in the first place? I don't know if I know the story behind that.

Sean Dowdell:

Well, some of us got married early on. And, you know, wives started having opinions on band practice and this or that, and we started having some infighting based on girlfriends may started having some serious drug addiction problems. And we just started in fighting over stupid things. I'm, you know, my ego started getting out of control. You know, on my part of it, you know, I thought I was more important than, than some of the other guys and it just came to a head and then we had a big fight and that fights. It was a stupid fight, but but it was just the kind of the straw that broke the camel's back, and we just couldn't recover from it. But luckily, our attorney was smart enough to know we actually signed a small deal with Warner Brothers at the time. For song production deal. We were supposed to go in the studio the following weekend that we broke up, okay. And our attorney was smart enough. His name is Scott Harrington and he gets really lost in the Lincoln Park success story without Scott Harrington there is no Lincoln Park and a lot of people leave that out of the story. They assume it's all from Jeff blue connecting the dots and he was a large part of that I give him his props in his and is it he's owed the the the portion of success he attributed for sure. But without Scott Harrington being smart enough saying, I don't want Chester to fall through the cracks out in Arizona, he's too good. And plugging him into the machine that was called zero at the time in LA. Without that happening. Lincoln Park never happened would have happened. It was it just wouldn't have. And he gets written out of history, which unfortunately, the Warner Brothers guys are really good at doing and rewriting the history of, of that band. It's unfortunate. Hmm.

Chuck Shute:

So who is this guy Scott was it in Scott Harrington?

Sean Dowdell:

His name is Scott Harrington. He was our attorney. Okay. He was a big attorney for you know, I think Melissa Etheridge and candlebox and slavery. He was a really good attorney and he just, you know, we weren't super good friends or anything like that. You know, he and I actually got got into it over some of the some of the songwriting rights, but at the same time, I want to make sure that the truth is out there and that guy really without him, none of the stuff that they did would have happened. Gotcha. And that's just the truth of it. Yeah. So

Chuck Shute:

you guys break up? Yeah, you break up and you work on the tattoo shops. And then it was your what was a guitar player, Bobby, I think he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. It's always weird stuff like that can bring people closer together. So Chester actually was the one that reached out to you when that happened and kind of realized life's too short. We shouldn't feud about this, and you guys kind of made amends.

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, we did. You know, I went on to another band called water phase. And I had to deal with EMI and, and after grade A's, so I wasn't I wasn't bitter for the for the grade A's experience, I was very grateful. I thought we wrote some great songs. And when Chester Chester had spoken to my cousin Jacob at the time, and had found out that Bobby was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And I guess he called me that day after he spoke with Jacob. And it was just we just picked up right where we left off, we both apologize for being dicks to each other. And I think I was little, I think I flew out to LA to hang out with him that very next weekend, and we just picked right back up where we left off. Yeah, we both we both missed each other very dearly. We're best friends. And, and, you know, we repair that friendship very quickly, and went back to be investor friends and eventually became business partners in club tattoo, right? In 2003. And, and the greatest thing came up several times, we tried to put the back the band back together in 2002, for a charity gig for Bobby. And then Warner Brothers stepped all over that and told him no, after we had already sold tickets, and everything for that. And then in 2016, or I'm sorry, 2007. We tried it again. But I had heard my back. And I couldn't play I literally was laid up for about eight months. And and then we came back we revisit it in 2016 when he when he called me and we were gonna put together another party for our business club tattoo. And he said, You know, I've been thinking about that, I think we should progress together for that. And that's really the, the spark that ignited the whole great age reunion.

Chuck Shute:

So yeah, and you were was he were you guys rewriting the old original songs or rewriting new songs.

Sean Dowdell:

So it's kind of a convoluted story, but I'll give you that I'll give you the the cliff notes version. He called me We agreed to do a reunion show for the club tattoo party. It initially was supposed to be in July, but then we moved into September 20, I think of 2017. Now, after we made that announcement, we started getting a lot of calls from promoters all over the world wanting us to play Australia, Germany, they're like, we want you guys to come play. And it was for good, good money. So on another conversation we had, he said, You know, we're going to be doing these other shows, we really should have something to sell, we should have an album of some kind. And and then I think it was me that said, Well, we have this catalog of material that was that was squashed. We should go back and release this stuff properly. And we said okay, so I think we picked was like 1010 or 11 songs that we were going to start working on. And we started initially working with a producer named Sylvia Massey, this is while Chester was still alive. And we would go back and forth via email, rewriting guitar parts and just started organizing the tracks. And then as we were going back and forth via email, and on the phone, we kind of came to the conclusion like, you know, these things need to be modernized a little bit. We need some more modern sounds sound like they're a little bit dated recordings. Yeah, let's let's let's freshen them up a little bit. And that's how that idea got. And then we were supposed to start rehearsals on the Sunday and I want to say it was July 23 that we're supposed to start rehearsing. But, you know, he flew back to LA to do a quick TV commercial. And, and of course, he passed away that night. So we didn't get to follow through together on that. But that's how it all initially started and kind of ramped up into what we were planning on doing together.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. So and I don't want to talk too much about his passing, because you've talked about that enough. And but there is one thing that I think it's interesting to bring up because you said there was like no red flags. And you know, like you didn't really see anything. And then you just think he got into that moment. And he just he wasn't thinking rationally. I heard something that Dr. Drew said that really stuck with me that if people are having those kinds of thoughts, they need to call 911 like it's an emergency like if you're having a suicidal thought that's like your you know, you're bleeding to death, like you need to call 911 it's an emergency. I feel like that mindset doesn't really set in

Sean Dowdell:

The problem with what Dr. Drew is saying in my in my humble opinion is that takes a rational mind to make that choice. And when you're not thinking rationally, you're not making rational choices to call 911 you're not Thinking about getting help you're thinking about getting out. So I think that there's a big disconnect between that phone call and reality. I just don't think you were I don't know. I'm gonna pick up the phone because I want help. That's not what people who are literally on the precipice of committing suicide. Do. Yeah. But it's just too hard, right? hurts too much. I don't want to live anymore. I want out.

Chuck Shute:

But it's impossible. There's a part of that too, is the stigma, though. I feel like there's a stigma like, ooh, you can't talk, you know, you can't call 911. Like, it's embarrassing or should be ashamed. I don't know. I feel like if more people thought the way that okay, they should I mean, I don't know if you're right, though. If you're so deep into it, maybe you're just not thinking rationally, and there's nothing that you could do. And that's what's so sad. But

Sean Dowdell:

what what makes me come to this conclusion. And Dr. Drew could tell me I'm full of shit. I don't know, what makes me feel like, I have a little bit of understanding of how this what happened to somebody is, if he would have been thinking rationally, all he would have had to think about was his children. I mean, literally one split second thought about his children, and he wouldn't have done it. I know him, I know him. So well. He would have thought about his kids. And he would have stopped doing what he was doing right then and there. But that's my point is he's not he was not thinking rationally. Yeah. And that's the best that I can come up with. As to the why,

Chuck Shute:

yeah, cuz it's just it's so frustrating hearing these stories. And you're just like, you, you know, you want to find a way to prevent it. But you know, I don't know, I don't know what the answer is. But you know, I like to I do like to talk about a little bit just to see if we can come up with something or shed some sort of light on that. But for this one, it just seems like Like you said, it was just so irrational, that there was no, there was nobody there to help. Yeah, sad. Yeah. All right. Well, so moving on,

Sean Dowdell:

I had a better answer to prevent it, I, you know, I would do it. I just I don't.

Chuck Shute:

I mean, that's the only thing I know, because I talked to I know, if you're familiar with Tyler hilinski, he was a college football player. And same thing, he took his own life. And so I had his parents on, they found they found this whole thing hilinski his hope and, and that's one of the things they said is like to talk about it is, you know, raise awareness can help a lot, I think, because a lot of people, they have those feelings, and they just feel too ashamed to tell anybody, or to reach out for help. So it is kind of encouraged that it does help. But like you said, sometimes you get so deep into that, those kinds of thinking that you're just not thinking rationally. So I see your side of that too, though.

Sean Dowdell:

And I think the preventative maintenance side for at least how I live my life is I tell the people around me, I love them as much as I can. And I give them hugs, that's huge. You know, my children I talk to Hey, if you're ever feeling like this, I just know that I love you more than you, then you know, and I would, I will do anything to keep you here. So don't ever feel like you can't talk to me as laying down a foundational understanding that your kids can, you know, come and talk to you. But, you know, I don't think it works like that for everybody. So I think that, for me, it's more about preventative maintenance. Absolutely.

Chuck Shute:

You know, it's interesting with his I was reading about him today that I didn't know, he was he was what you said he was like really skinny when you met him when he was like, he was bullied in high school for being too skinny. I was like, well, that's like me, I was bullied for being too skinny in high school too. So and like he had some insecurities. It's funny cuz I talked to so a girl from the bachelor yesterday, she has like almost a million followers on Instagram and, and she's like, it has insecurity about not being liked enough and not. And so it's interesting, a lot of these big stars, you think you have so many fans and followers. And sometimes there's still this like piece that feels like there's it's missing?

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, you know, the human psychology is a very deep subject. And I think there's a bit of an illusion, especially in America about the way somebody should feel about themselves versus the way you know, there's years and years and years of their life experience that go into how they were treated, how they were talked to, how they were handled, how they were loved, how they were not loved, that go into the the momentary snapshot of what you think they should feel about themselves, you know, and then yeah, that's a reasonable expectation of human behavior. But I understand where you're coming from, for sure. Yeah. It's, it's hard to understand why somebody would feel so bad about themselves. But I also comes a long explanation usually,

Chuck Shute:

yeah, no, it's a deep thing. We don't know what's going on inside inside his mind. But, but back to your story. So in 2017, you did this this book tattooed millionaire about creating and building a multi million dollar business, the club tattoo your whole life story. So and one big point of emphasis and it is just learning from your failures, which I love that and tell me a ton of the story about like you opened the store in San Francisco and the people it didn't it didn't work. I'll let you tell the story. It is really interesting though, because it sounds like such a good idea in this like really hard of a metropolitan area that it would have a lot of traffic foot traffic and

Sean Dowdell:

yeah, there was a lot of traffic. Okay, I'll give you the cliff notes first. My wife, I and Chester decided to open up a shop on pier 39. It's one of the busiest tourist destinations in San Francisco, gets about 60,000 people a day on the pier, we spend $2 million opening up the most beautiful tattoo studio you've ever seen in your life. Our back window is literally over the water. You're looking at Alcatraz and the Golden Gate Bridge. It was beautiful. We did $1.8 million worth of business the first year$1.6 million the first year and we still ended up losing 60 or 90 grand. The cost of doing business in San Francisco is unlike anything I've ever seen in my life. There there was taxes for taxes, there were fees for fees, the city I've never been I've never owned a business in a city that was so anti business before. They seem to want to try to I don't want to get political here. But as an entrepreneur, I'm very astute in economics and how money grows and how you make money. And you cannot you can't make money by tax that you can't tax your way to prosperity. It just doesn't work. There's no, there's no way to do it. It's like how much money you're gonna make, you know, on your cash back from your credit card. So you're spending $100 to make 3% it's

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, you said that you. So they taxed 1% they have some rule in California or San Francisco that they tax 1% of your gross if it's over a million dollars, even though you may have lost money, you didn't make a profit. They're still taxing you. Because you made over a million. Yeah, that's so good. Yeah, that's

Sean Dowdell:

it. That's absolutely true. And take a guess at how many shops were claiming on their taxes that they made over a million bucks.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, that's probably a loss.

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, for us just what just does nobody else? Because they all understood the game. Doing everything by the book, okay, we were walking around San Francisco before we opened this thinking that these people were in the dark ages, like all these people had these ancient tax, cash registers, we're like, oh, what are they doing it? We know, we have this really sophisticated computer system. And so we just thought everyone was in the dark and and we were in the dark, because everyone else was just dodging the system. And by doing it, right, it's a it's a path of impossibility, ya know,

Chuck Shute:

and I again, I don't want to get political either. But I did see this thing on the housing crisis in San Francisco, because it's so there's so much homeless people, and it's so hard. I mean, the rent in San Francisco or to try to buy something is insane. It's through the roof. And so there was a story about this guy trying to build a I think it was apartments or condos. And he said, there was so much red tape, and so many taxes and so many headaches. He goes, I will never build housing in San Francisco ever again. And so that, you know, that's one explanation why there's it's like supply and demand. There's just not enough housing. And it's the stuff that is because there's not very much the prices are through the roof.

Sean Dowdell:

And you have these bureaucrats that have no idea how business works. So they're making rules with no understanding of how small businesses operate. So that's that's one of the worst things about politicians is you have politicians that have never done anything in their life right there. They were grown, they were they grew up rich. They were they were bred into this political atmosphere and just kind of went up there. So So I have a real problem with politicians that never owned a business. Like you're creating laws. Yeah, good points. And you don't understand business. And it's not anything personal. It's, it's a matter of experience, I would never let somebody you know, explain to me how I need to make a cake. If they've never made a cake. It's really life experience that it comes down to. That's my own philosophy. I know a lot of people disagree with me, but that's how I feel. Yeah. And you know, San Francisco was was really tough lesson for us. And we failed at that. We ended up closing a store after three years. And, you know, we walked away, I lost $2 million. And I hope to god never happens again. You know,

Chuck Shute:

so what did you learn besides just never do anything in San Francisco again? Was there other lessons that you learn from that?

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, there's there's different research markers that I now use before before we open up a new store. Not just demographics, not just traffic. I mean, there's a lot of different things. We look at the local tax laws, we look at the the permitting side of things we look, there's so many different things that we look at now. That before we are just looking at traffic and opportunity cost. And now it's a different game. Yeah. Well, this

Chuck Shute:

is another thing that I thought you said was interesting. When you're leading a business, you explain to your employees why you're doing the task that you want them to do. So you don't have to remind them and in fact, once they understand why they're doing something, they'll actually come to you with ideas. So give me like some examples of that.

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, somebody said something really pointed to me a few years back and he said, you know what you get credit for the people around you. So do you want to be credited for people who, you know, aren't that smart? Or do you want to be credited for the guy who guy who has the smartest team around him, he's like, you get credit for that people, they chalk it up in their mind, like a scoreboard like, that guy hangs out with some really smart people, that guy has a really smart team, that guy has a really smart employee. And that that really stuck with me. And I started to understand, probably after, you know, six, seven years of after we opened the first shop, that being a leader was not the same as being a boss. And being a leader was really being more of a mentor to our staff and leaving them with life lessons, they're not going to be your employee forever. So if you can, if you can help them grow intellectually, professionally, and then when they leave you if they come back to you and and appreciate the things that you gave them, personally, growth wise, then you did a good job. And I started noticing over time, I'd start having ex employees come back to me and say, You were the best boss I've ever had. I learned so much from you this and that. And I started instead of stroking my ego with it, I said, Well, how can I do this in a more efficient, better way and started creating programs with my wife and partner? How to create not only a better employee, but a better human being we just pulling people up the ladder. And the stronger your staff is, the stronger your company is really? Hmm.

Chuck Shute:

Did you Is it true that you did have some employees that that didn't like you, they tried to like start a rival tattoo business across the street from you? Did that really happen? Were you just saying hypothetical?

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, no, no, that's happened a few times

Chuck Shute:

Really?

Sean Dowdell:

I had artists where I've had to go out in the parking lot and beat the fuck out of them. I mean I'm an old shcool guy that way, I'm sorry I cuss. where I come from and growing up....

Chuck Shute:

That's crazy.

Sean Dowdell:

Now unfortunately, it comes with a lawsuit and being in the newspaper. But no, I was many times where I had to grab a tattoo artist by his neck and drag him in the parking lot and beat the shit out of him because he was doing something either inappropriate or stealing or, or whatever it is something so egregious that they didn't have a response...

Chuck Shute:

deserved it. Yeah, you were just beating them up for Yeah.

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, it was even more than it deserved. Because a fight, just a simple firing wouldn't have handled the problem. So there, there were plenty of moments and you know, for a long time, that was part of who I was, and I try not to be that guy anymore. Because I first of all, I don't enjoy punching human beings. I don't like being punched, and I'm too old for that stuff. But I'd rather flip to the other side and try to make people better, and help them grow intellectually, and professionally to where they feel like they're stronger when they do leave the coop, but we've had a lot of people look a gift horse in the mouth and take us for granted and try to steal from us or undercut and open a shop around the corner and try to compete. And it's like there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. And I'm not saying that people shouldn't go open their own businesses. I've helped plenty of our ex employees open their own studios around the world. Well, that's why no, there's a difference. There's a difference between"hey Sean, I'm going to open my own studio. Would you help me?" It's done respectfully. There's a difference between trying to hire your entire staff out from under you and keep it a secret. And then you find out it's two blocks away. And then they stole your records or tried to photocopy on the release forms, that kind of stuff is completely unwarranted. We've never been the bosses or owners that deserve that kind of behavior. So I don't really know that I think that's what I was writing about it if you're afraid to

Chuck Shute:

that. That's crazy. Yeah, no, I haven't ever read the full book yet off to check it out. I've just heard you. I've heard you talk about it. Do you ever wonder what would happen if you didn't start a business? Like what if you just went and worked at American Express or took a government job? Do you think you'd be miserable? Or would you have found a way to be happy doing that? Or? Oh,

Sean Dowdell:

man? Well, I did work at American Express for about four hours.

Chuck Shute:

Four hours.

Sean Dowdell:

I did yeah, I went to lunch, and I came back and I just this this was not for me. I never came back.

Chuck Shute:

What was the job? What were you supposed to be doing?

Sean Dowdell:

They put me in the mailroom. Okay. 1717 It was one of my It was my only corporate job I've ever had. And then, you know, I waited tables, and I worked at Little Caesars for a while and stuff like that before I open the shop. But yeah, um, you know, I would, I would hope that I'd be on a path to happiness somewhere. But I really have a passion for being an entrepreneur and doing the things that I'm doing. So I don't even like to think. Yeah, what would have happened? Yeah. Why just

Chuck Shute:

think of all the people that are out there working in those jobs that they hate. And, you know, maybe they were meant to be an entrepreneur as well. I think I think it seems like Most people at least should have a side hustle or something.

Sean Dowdell:

Well, maybe maybe not. I mean, I'm sure that depends on the individual. Yeah, if you're unhappy in your job, I would strongly suggest you find a new job because life is way too short to be unhappy and your work is almost almost what you do more than anything else. Yeah, we're so sure that at a minimum should be something you enjoy doing. Find another career. And if you live in America, there's no excuse not to do it. I'm sorry. No, I understand. I agree. There's there's there's a different privilege in this country, that that different opportunities that we have, but if you're in America, you really don't have an excuse as to why you shouldn't be chasing something you love. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of opportunity. So

Chuck Shute:

let's move on. Let's talk about the the gray days the new is it. I thought it was an EP, but it's like 11 songs. I feel like that's an album that you call them an EP or an album. A stripped stripped is on EP it's all the strip does the EP Okay, that's what it but the other ones like the full it's like 11 songs. So yeah, you got some full album. Yeah. You've got Chester's old vocals. And then you get like we recruit all these people from corn and helmet and bush and who's the guy who plays guitar on what's in the eye. That guitar was to two guitar players.

Sean Dowdell:

There's Kristin Davis, our guitar player, and then we have Chris Trainor from bush playing on that

Chuck Shute:

track. Okay, I really liked the solo and stuff on that. And then you have Chester son is doing the backup vocals on one of the tracks as well, right?

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, Jamie sings on a track called soul song. He sings in the chorus. It's pretty cool.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. And you said, Go on. Sorry.

Sean Dowdell:

He did a really good job. I think his dad would have been really proud, really, really unique thing we got to do with involving Chester's children. He never got a chance to record with his kids. And that was something we were able to do for him. And I felt really good to be able to give back to Chester in that way.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. And the lyrics on these songs are so heavy and dark. And I heard you guys say that you're listening to them. And they're just like tears, because I mean, it's just he's like pouring his heart out into the songs.

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, I mean, the one thing that you'll get from the great Ace material is is a genuine emotional.

Chuck Shute:

Yes, intention. Yes, big time.

Sean Dowdell:

He really believed every word in those tracks, and it just comes through. And when we started the project after Chester pass, when we restarted the project, I should say we just isolated his vocals. And it was really it was a tear jerker. And we sat and cried a couple times. You know, listening. Yeah, obviously, since he's passed, you have a different understanding of what he was going through. And you hear that the words you like, and I just hear it differently. And I understand the pain a lot different.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, for sure. Like that. The shout out, I think it's the last song and then there's that voicemail from him at the end of it. I mean, that one's really it's really intense what he's saying in that in that song, it's amazing.

Sean Dowdell:

Yeah, you know, great days has a theme, I mean, great days was was talking about sadness, loneliness, pain, sorrow, you know, the lack of love, all those types of things. And, and there's several songs that feel like and it's an apology from beyond. And that's one of those tracks shouting out where, you know, I didn't mean to let you down. I mean, God, it's just that's such a powerful lyric.

Chuck Shute:

And what's the one where if I have a second chance, I'd make amends. I mean, that's it. That's

Sean Dowdell:

a track called Maurice Maurice sky. Justin, I wrote that when we were sitting on the beach in Mexico, probably 93 and another it's another one that just feels like an apology from beyond you know, that's one of the reasons we came up with the with the the album title amends, was from that song is, is this album felt like a way for Chester to make amends to the world. And maybe that wasn't our place to do that. I don't know. But I felt like I was close enough friends to know that in my heart I believe if Chester would have woken up the day after he did what he did, he would have called all of us and apologized and said I don't know what I was thinking I'm sorry.

Chuck Shute:

Was there people that didn't aren't happy with this project? Or

Sean Dowdell:

I'm sure I don't care about

Chuck Shute:

but like his family obviously the gave you the blessing because his son is on it. Okay, that's all that matters. Yeah.

Sean Dowdell:

His family is stoked... There's a few Linkin Park guys out there that are complete dicks and, they totally think we're out making millions of dollars. Like I hate to tell you this, but I was a millionaire before this project and this project - 've not made a lot of money on and it takes a lot of my fucking time. And I'm doing this because I love my friend and I love the music. And you know $100,000 is not going to change my life at all. And that's not me being arrogant. That's me being honest. This is a lot of fucking work. And we're not chasing money or that I don't care if they sell a million albums. I just want the music to be great. I want it to be something Chester would have been proud of. But there's a couple of assholes out there that talk shit online. But, you know, what can I do that I can't fly to these countries and punch these keyboard warriors in the mouth. I just have to live my life as long as I make myself happy and happy and his family happy when Chester's Mom - tells me that she cried when she listens to some of these songs. That's enough for me. Yeah, I don't need some dickhead in Germany thinks he knows more than my friend

Chuck Shute:

who's in Germany.

Sean Dowdell:

I'm just not

Chuck Shute:

going out. hypotheticals that no, it's a great album. I've been listening to it on repeat. I just went out and walked around and I was like listening to this. I'm like, Man, this is really intense. You could really feel the emotion in his voice. It's It's great. I love how it's update because I listened to the originals on YouTube. And then I listened to the you know, obviously the the updated versions and I love what you guys did with it. Who did the production on it? Because it's great.

Sean Dowdell:

So we had like five producers on Okay. The next album, we're gonna have one because it was a little too many cooks in the kitchen. Sure, sure a job. There's a producer named SJ Jones that did five tracks on the album. There's a guy named Pete nappy, who did Cygnus there's a guy named Alex all the who did beat 12 with our buddies, head and monkey from corn and that I know cast Dylan did shouting out with LP. I think that's all five.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, so yeah, cuz there is another there's another full album of material right that you could put put out.

Sean Dowdell:

We are we're going where we've been writing for the last eight months. We just finished our last writing session about two weeks ago. And it's good. I think it'd be very blown away. I think it's as good if not better than a man's. Okay. And we'll go in and the end of March to start recording that album.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, awesome. Well look for that. Do you have any other projects on the horizon anymore?

Sean Dowdell:

Oh, God. Do I have time for any more projects? I just wide I have a book coming out another book, another one called brand renegades. It's a small business entrepreneurial book talking about branding and different different theories and marketing concepts that you can use on a micro level in different communities. So that's coming out through Entrepreneur Magazine entrepreneur press in May. I'm really excited about that. You know, of course, we're always expanding club tattoo. My wife and I are working on two new businesses that we're opening. We'll be making an announcement for those here probably in about two or three weeks. So I'm very busy.

Chuck Shute:

Okay. Are the new businesses in Arizona or where are they going to be?

Sean Dowdell:

Las Vegas?

Chuck Shute:

Vegas? Okay. Are you in Vegas now? Arizona.

Sean Dowdell:

I'm in Arizona today. Okay, I've currently we have three company three clubs at two locations in Vegas. And we'll be opening a couple more new new companies up there this year.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, cool. It sounds like you got a lot on your plate. We'll just keep me posted. And everyone should follow you on social media to keep up with what you're doing. Well, thank you. Yeah. And then also, I'd like to end with the charity was there I know if your publicist told you, is there some charity that you want to give a shout out to? At the end here?

Sean Dowdell:

Oh, a new leaf foundation. So my wife and I work a lot with a company out of Arizona. It's called the New Leaf foundation. They initially started helping battered women get out of abusive relationships. Oh, we donate we're big donors to this company. We have done business with them in some shape or form for the last 24 years. Wow, amazing. Okay. They they act as an intermediary to get these battered women out of these abusive relationships to give them a place to live. They give them a skill set and they get them a job in a year. I love that amazing organization. A new leaf, new leaf. Okay, well,

Chuck Shute:

I'll put that in the notes for sure. So people can throw a few bucks that way. That'd be great. And follow you on social media. Anything else you want to promote? Oh,

Sean Dowdell:

that's it, man.

Chuck Shute:

Okay. All right. Thanks so much for doing this. I appreciate it. I'll see you around Phoenix sometime. Maybe. Hey, Todd, look me up. Okay, take it easy.

Sean Dowdell:

Take care. Bye. Bye.

Chuck Shute:

So that was Shawn del del the band is called gray days. Check out their website, lots of cool old pics of the band with Chester and Shawn, listen to the album amends. It's great. It's dark, but it's really good. It's really emotional. Make sure to follow Shawn on social media to keep up with all the great stuff he's doing. Sounds like there will be more projects, more music another book and who knows what else. And while you're on there I on social media Instagram or Twitter, Facebook, give me a follow and you can share the episode if you enjoyed it. And if you really have the time, you can write me a review on Apple podcasts that would help me out a lot. So thank you so much for listening. Have a great rest of your day. Remember, shoot for the moon.