Chuck Shute Podcast

Jon Levin (Dokken)

December 09, 2023 Jon Levin Season 4 Episode 400
Chuck Shute Podcast
Jon Levin (Dokken)
Show Notes Transcript

Jon Levin is an American musician and lawyer. He is best known as the guitarist for the heavy metal band Dokken, and he also played with Doro. He has a new album out with Dokken titled “Heaven Comes Down.” We discuss the new album, tour plans, musical production, guitar solos, opening for Van Halen, turning down an offer for Alice Cooper and more!

00:00 - Intro
00:12 - Lawyer Vs. Rockstar & Channeling Energy
04:40 - Having to Miss Shows & Getting Sick
07:00 - Poison Tour & C.C. DeVille & Path to Dokken
08:40 - Other Bands Between Warlock & Dokken
09:55 - Offer to Join Alice Cooper
11:50 - Switching Hats from Lawyer to Music
14:05 - Recreation Time & Work Time
17:10 - Health & Diet
19:22 - Don Dokken Interview
21:15 - Warren DeMartini & Musician Friendships
24:10 - Recording Riffs & Saving for Later
27:00 - Songs & Videos  on "Heaven Comes Down"
31:40 - Dokken Tour Plans & International Fan Base
33:55 - Kiss Kruise & Boat Shows
35:20 - Shows with George Lynch
36:13 - Opening for Van Halen
37:00 - Album Guest Spots & Commercials 
38:25 - Making an Album Process & Don's Production
44:10 - Recording Time & Solos
50:30 - Other Styles of Music & Jam Nights
53:07 - Outro

Dokken band website:
https://www.dokken.net/

Chuck Shute YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@ChuckShute

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Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Chuck Shute:

Do you have to like, change from like law clothes to rock clothes or houses, or can you working from home and whatever?

Jon Levin:

Yeah, I try to work like this. And I don't like to do the suit thing unless I have to, you know, once in a while though it's a necessary evil.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, like you have meetings and stuff where you have to go in and then like, what do you put your hair in a ponytail? Or how's that work?

Jon Levin:

I gotta go to court. I usually put it back. Yeah,

Chuck Shute:

you go to court a lot. There's a lot of just stuff that you just do paperwork and email and stuff.

Jon Levin:

Well, let's say it's all of that. It's both, you know, but of course, inevitably, those hearings, and then sometimes trials.

Chuck Shute:

What's more exciting, like, going in the courtroom and doing like a Perry Mason or page and rocking out?

Jon Levin:

You know, that's a good question. They're completely different types of, you know, the law things more of like a nervous excitement, you know? I guess if I had to compare it to something like, you know, when you were a kid, and you had to take like, go take like the LSAT or the whatever, and that the LSAT is what like the SATs are that those type? Were like some big test just Yeah, it feels more like that going to court. Whereas doing a show feels more like an excitement, you know, exciting energy.

Unknown:

Yeah,

Chuck Shute:

I guess it's a little bit of the same thing. I mean, because I'm sure, maybe not yourself, but other people would get nervous going on stage at least a little bit, and then just kind of channel that into excitement as they get on there and realize, oh, this is pretty fun, right? Um,

Jon Levin:

yeah, I sort of I use that energy to work for me, you know, as opposed to against me. And there's been times where I felt like I went on, sorry, sometimes a little bit of a headache. So I've had times where I go on stage, and I didn't feel that and then those usually are shows that don't go great for me. Like if I walk out and don't have that excite you to have that energy for some reason. And the only time that usually will happen is if I'm like not feeling well. Or if I'm like, overly overly tired, you know, which sometimes, you know, inevitably, sometimes things on the road catch up to you, you know,

Chuck Shute:

or, like, mentally and so frightening because you could get bad news, a friend or relative could get sick or, or, or pass away. And then it's like, you have a show to do. So how do you

Jon Levin:

like, the love of my life was my dog Lily, and she she passed away? Like, four or five hours before a show? Um, yeah, it was just like, Absolutely so horrible. Like, she she was like, I just love this dog so much, man. It's like, if I could have squeezed her in a dress, I'd have married or, you know,

Chuck Shute:

that's horrible. Yeah, I just, for the first time had a pet like 10 years ago, and then the cat died. And it was like I'd never been through, I always kind of like, almost like made fun of people that would like take that too seriously. And you don't really realize it until you go through it. Because it's something that you that animals there for you all the time. Like, there's no like, oh, they break up with you, or they get mad at you. Like they're just they love you unconditionally, every day

Jon Levin:

are part of your family. You know, I'd say I understand that. You know, honestly, like years and years ago, before I, you know, had dogs or whatever. Um, I remember another attorney told me that his dog passed away. And you know, unfortunately, like, I didn't have the presence of mind to really be able to relate to that at that point in my life, which I regret. Because now like, I understand how horribly bad it is, you know? Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. I'm on stage though.

Jon Levin:

Sorry about that. Go ahead.

Chuck Shute:

No, I was just saying like, and then you have that feeling like you said, four or five hours. Somehow you've got to go on stage and just turn that off and turn the other part of your brain on and, yeah, it kind of helps you get through it too. Right.

Jon Levin:

Well, a friend of mine actually pulled up. I was borrowing a cabinet from him that night, my friend I were black. He's a guitar player. Oh, so he played for the bowl boys. Yeah, yeah. Really, really wonderful guy, you

Unknown:

know? Yeah. And he's amazing. Yeah, he's

Jon Levin:

great guy. And he was he just saw me and he knew something was wrong. He came out and gave me a hug. I was out on the street by myself, you know? And I said to him, I told him what happened and I and you know, he filled in for me once before the dock and thing years ago, I had a trial. And I said to him, I Romain Do you remember the songs? Because I don't know if I could pull it off tonight. Like I was this close from not not doing it, you know?

Chuck Shute:

Wow. Have you ever been other times where you've had to miss shows because of illness or something? Nope.

Jon Levin:

Luckily that that. Yeah. Thanks. Thankfully, I've never missed one for being sick. You know. We canceled one as a band because we all got sick though. And I've been I was actually okay to do the show that night. But don don, first MC got it. And he was so sick, we actually had to leave him in a hotel room and we got Adam Hamilton to fly out and fill in. I think we were in Colorado. Right?

Chuck Shute:

Cool. Was that during COVID? Or is that just

Jon Levin:

like 1015 years ago, probably 12 years ago. And then, right when we were supposed to go on, I remember, like, we sold out and the guy came onto our bus and said, Hey, man, this is the most people we've ever put in here. It's beyond packed, I'm turning people away. And then we went on stage for a second. And Don's like, I can't do it. You know, he's like, I'm gonna pass out. And then I didn't feel well, like we just all got sick all at once. You know, it was just horrible, you know? But we were touring. I remember, it was wintertime, it was like a winter bus tour, you know? And things happen, you know, but fortunately, like, that's about like, the only time that's ever happened to us.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I'm surprised that's not more common. I mean, I guess you do hear about that. Especially during the COVID thing. It was like I felt like it was every other show was canceled. But before that, you think it would have been more common? I don't remember that many shows being canceled. Yeah,

Jon Levin:

no. Yeah. COVID obviously, it's a whole different thing. But unfortunately, you know, sometimes you don't feel well, and you got to just press through it. Frankly, I don't feel well right now. Oh, really?

Unknown:

Sorry.

Jon Levin:

Headache today.

Chuck Shute:

Oh, shit. Yeah. Caffeine and water. It feels like

Jon Levin:

that's why I'm thinking that.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. Although they say most headaches are dehydration. But then caffeine supposedly helps too. So I don't really understand that.

Jon Levin:

Yeah, I get up just get migraines sometimes.

Chuck Shute:

That's sucks. What about I mean, if you ever just had too much to drink, and then like either for like a bit hungover the next day?

Jon Levin:

Although this isn't that I haven't really been drinking much at all lately. I've just been, you know, chillin at home, not really doing much.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, cuz you guys have toured. You've had so many of those fun. I mean, it looks like to me it will be a fun tour. Like, I think one of your tours that you did with poison. And Sebastian Bach. I was like when you joined the band a couple of years in? How was that? Do you have any memories of that?

Jon Levin:

I have a lot. That was 2008. Yeah. Yeah, we did like a 40 or 45 Show bus tour with them. Yeah, it was great. Cece, and I became really good friends at that. That point, you know, he still calls me today. You know, once in a while I hear from him. He's such a great guy, man.

Chuck Shute:

He's he's kind of hard to I haven't seen him do any interviews or any I'd love to get him. He seems like he's kind of mysterious.

Jon Levin:

Oh, yeah. I don't know about his professional world. But you know, just from the hanging out perspective is is the good guy, man.

Chuck Shute:

Did you know him back when he had that house? I always hear all the stories. And I think Don actually told me a story about going to the CC Deville house back in the day. I

Jon Levin:

was in that house once. Yeah. I didn't really know him then. But my good friend Tommy Henrickson was playing bass in his band. Right.

Chuck Shute:

I just had Tommy on. That's, that's good. Yeah. Yeah. He was telling me stories about Cece and so yeah, it was great that Tommy

Jon Levin:

and I played Warlock together back in the 80s. And he's actually largely the reason I'm in the dock and thing you know, because of his relationship with Jeff pilson.

Chuck Shute:

Right, because then that got you with weight because you were you were Jeff's lawyer when he worn piece and then they called you one day and today you want to come play some solos and yeah,

Jon Levin:

that's right. That's exactly how it happened. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

That's crazy. I wanted to know about those other bands that you paid, played in, though between Warlock and Doc and that that didn't necessarily because one of them you said was signed by Jason Flom from Atlantic record. Yeah.

Jon Levin:

That was a band I had with Tommy and Bobby rather than Le he was called big trouble. We had a record deal. Yeah. Yeah. Right after the warlock thing that was around 1990 91.

Chuck Shute:

And the singer was Eric St. Michael's. Yeah. You've done some homework. Yeah. So like, when you change singers and you think that's what killed it?

Jon Levin:

Yeah, we should. I mean, that was management sort of management's doing, you know, we should have just stuck with error. I don't know why. Why would we couldn't you know, but that's, you know, things go as they go and you can't look back, you know?

Chuck Shute:

Right. Well, then there was some other band, I think was it called Ain't no shame is the other one that you did

Jon Levin:

you really know the enzyme, right? And then after that, I started the ain't no shame thing. And that's what brought me to Los Angeles, you know, and right at that time, that was 91. And the day those guys showed up at my house, I just flown the bass player in from Los Angeles, to my house in New York. You know, when I lived in New York, the parents house in New York, and the singer came in from Florida, and then you know, like, literally like the first day everyone's sitting in my kitchen. We're gonna start this new band, the phone rings for me A and it's my friend Greg Smith who I played with an analogical devious. He's been in a ton of bands. And he was in Alice Cooper's band at the time. And he just he calls me and says, Hey, man, you know, we're on tour anymore. Just quit. I spoke to Alice, you know, you're in, can you do red rocks? We're playing it next week, learn the set. And, you know, as I'm looking at my new band sitting at the kitchen table, you know, so I didn't know what to do. I was like, You know what I mean? Oh, shoot,

Chuck Shute:

I never heard that story. That's crazy. Opportunity. And you turned it

Jon Levin:

down. Never told that never really told anything. Yeah. Wow. That's like

Chuck Shute:

a pretty amazing loyalty. I feel like I wouldn't have blamed you. If you would have said, guys, I gotta take this opportunity. You

Jon Levin:

know, so they, I think I was really dead set on that point in my life of having my own band. Or, you know what I mean, or not nothing my own band, but being in a band from from the ground floor. You know what I'm saying? Right.

Chuck Shute:

And it's totally different than being a quote, like a hired gun or whatever.

Jon Levin:

Yeah. Which I did in the door thing. And,

Chuck Shute:

yeah, but doesn't that also get your name out there. So that then you have more of a platform to to make your own band or make your own project? Like Crossbone, Scully right now. I'm sorry, like Tommy Hendrickson is doing with story, his son project. But,

Jon Levin:

you know, frankly, I just never thought of it in that perspective. You know, I just some reason why, you know, who knows what goes through the mind of a 23 year old kid, you know, that's what I was. You know, I don't remember what I was thinking. I just remember really wanting to get out to Los Angeles, and have the worst sort of way. But, you know,

Chuck Shute:

yeah. So do you regret that? Like, if you look back in that time, because that was about the breaking point for music, or you had a break when you went to law school? And I know that you told the story a million times, your dad said, law school, a record store? But like, Do you think there's something that you could have done differently that could have kept you staying in music? I know, you don't want to do grunge. But could you have done a cover band or, or been a hired gun just to keep going and stay in music?

Jon Levin:

You know, I was never someone who was really good at pulling ideas out of the air and, and like following through with like, ideas like that. So I just couldn't think of what to do. And all I know is I all I knew at the time was like, I had no money. No. So I needed to do something. And and I knew, like, I just knew no matter what happened, I couldn't see myself moving back to New York. So I had, I had to just do anything I could do at that point to try and like be able to stay in Los Angeles, man, you know.

Chuck Shute:

So then when you got the law degree, did you only do or do you mostly do entertainment, like law with bands and music and stuff like that?

Jon Levin:

I did a bunch of that. But now it's mainly divorces now for me.

Chuck Shute:

Oh, that's kind of emotionally exhausting. On me

Jon Levin:

between doing that and playing in the dark and you know, not playing with topics like really bizarre dichotomy. I think even for me, you know, it's tough to change those hats. It's just sometimes, and sometimes I have to change those hats and an awful big hurry, you know?

Chuck Shute:

No, that sounds gonna be very stressful to Yeah. It's probably easier to switch into rock mode though. And just be like, Alright, I'm going to have fun and go out and rock and be like, Okay, now I gotta be like, serious lawyer mode and play that game.

Jon Levin:

Yeah, sometimes the switching can be can be sort of hard. You know? It's it. You know, I never really had a switch from last I've had to switch both directions. Actually, this sometimes even recently, I've been in my hotel room and I have to deal with an important you know, legal thing shortly before the show. You know, so yeah, sometimes

Chuck Shute:

it happens. You gotta need special plans for your army shows tonight or anything. Oh, no.

Jon Levin:

Just relaxing man. Gonna go to a festival.

Chuck Shute:

What do you do? I know you do the remote controlled airplanes. Yeah. Anything else you do for fun? No,

Jon Levin:

just that. Yeah, that's basically it man. I have any free time I like I'd be flying today but there there's a flying restrictions today and tomorrow. No flying. So Oh,

Chuck Shute:

you don't watch like you don't watch any lawyer shows like Better Call Saul or anything like that.

Jon Levin:

I tried better call so I love Breaking Bad. That was one of my all time favorite shows. By the way. I just thought it was so awesome. You know? Yeah, it was so good. Better Call Saul. I haven't haven't had a chance to really get into, you know, a lot of these shows are really good. But there's such a time commitment. It's like, oh, do I want to give up 100 hours. It's like always the 100 episodes. How many are there? It's a lot of my life, you know, but so yeah, you know,

Chuck Shute:

I think some comedian had a joke like, like, you know, they put it in the series. Now with Netflix. Everything's like a docu series or a mini series. It's like, you know, do you want to watch a seven hour movie. It's like God, no. You want to watch the show? Oh, sure. Yeah. So that's how they trick you.

Jon Levin:

Yeah, but yeah, sometimes I get into that when I when I when it catches me a show two three episodes into oh my god, I'm hooked man. And now the six episodes of this and I gotta watch it all.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. And isn't talking are you guys doing a movie? Or is it a Miniseries or can you say anything about

Jon Levin:

it? I don't know much about that. I really don't. I really don't know much about that. I heard that something in the works. But you know, who knows? Oh, you're not a part of it or anything or I have no one's mentioned anything to me about that. I don't know what it is. I really don't. I've heard about something.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, not sure if it's anything like the dirt is I'm assuming you saw that. At least. The dirt?

Jon Levin:

Yeah. Motley crews movie. I saw some of that one. Was that the Netflix one? Yeah. Yeah, that was good. So some of that. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I read the book years ago. And so then when I saw the movie, I was like, Oh, this is actually somewhat close to the book. But then there's people that say like, Well, the book was embellished. And all this and other people say no, that's probably pretty accurate. So I don't know. Yeah,

Jon Levin:

I don't really Yeah, I really don't follow much of anything to be honest. Yeah, I sort of live my own little bubble.

Chuck Shute:

Really, how many hours a day, are you either working on doc and stuff or lawyer stuff?

Jon Levin:

Well, the lawyer stuff, I decided I want to take a little bit of time off, like the next couple of weeks of just winding down this year, because I just had a really, really busy busy year, I mean, so my, over the past, whatever, you know, 10, when the first 10 months of the year, basically, you know, I work every day, weekends included. So like every once in a while I get a day off, usually when my family is in time, or take a little bit of time off, or if I'm out with the band, you know, then I'm working with the band, but it was really, really hardcore. So I'm going to try and like take it a little bit easier. But anytime I have a day off, like if I have a day off, I get up as soon as the sun comes up, you know, and I go fly. I like to get to the airfield real early in the morning when the winds still calm. And that there's not too many people there yet. So that's just really that's my life law. Doc in flying.

Chuck Shute:

Wow. And whatever. Do you do any sort of exercise, right? Because you're in great shape. And I mean, you look like Earth you eat, you have a special diet or anything or

Jon Levin:

I don't eat all that much, man, I eat sort of everything in moderation, but I just don't eat that much. You know, I'm good with like, I'm good with like, two meals a day tops. I really never eat any breakfast. Like almost ever, like a coffee I'll have but I just I don't eat that much. I like to do a lot of walking. Yeah, but as far as lifting weights and all those things, that that doesn't work for me. You know, it's probably it's good for others. But just for me, anytime I start doing that, man, it causes me too many issues. And I noticed my hands not enhanced start feeling different. And you know, for playing I don't like it. Ah, that

Chuck Shute:

makes sense. Yeah. Because that's such a I feel like that is a big piece of being in a band is you got to be physically fit not only just to be able to move and do all the stage stuff, but also like, isn't that kind of part of like being an abandoned rock star you want to like, look like a rock star? You want to look the part?

Jon Levin:

Yeah, I mean, you try to try and stay well, staying physically fit is always a good thing. I mean, well, actually, you know, I do some exercises with bands and stuff. But But nothing, I don't just don't do anything like over the top or hardcore anymore. I used to do when I was younger man. And it caused me some problems, like I hurt my elbows from lifting heavy weight and but you know, staying in shape is always a good thing for up for obvious reasons. But also, like when you're on the road, like, if you're not in shape. I mean, it lets you know it pretty quickly, especially when you haven't been on tour for a long time. You know, like, if we don't do a gig safer. We're off now, right? So the next gig we do after the show, it's like, all of a sudden next day, it's like man, I'm really your legs are charley horse, like all these muscles that you don't normally use, you know, come into play when you're when you're on stage. So it lets you know it pretty quickly. But there's no better way to stay in shape than to like play a lot. And it's staying in shape in terms of playing and physically staying fit. Because, you know, the road could road could really, you know, be a detriment in terms of health, it's hard to eat healthy on the road to you got to sort of be careful. I mean, it's a lot of times, you know, you get there, you travel all day, now you're at an airport. Usually, if you're getting now it's 10 or 11 at night with the time difference. You have very limited options, you know, I try to do as little fast food as possible. So,

Chuck Shute:

right now, okay, so here's a question. That's a, this is a lawyer question slash doc in question. Because when I had Don Dokken on, I mean, he I'm sure you've seen some of these clips or interviews, I mean, or you just know cuz you've been in a band with them for 20 years.

Unknown:

I mean, it's great. What is a great interview?

Chuck Shute:

Oh my God, it was

Jon Levin:

a book of dawn. It's like an endless book of stories. It's amazing. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

So how does that work though? Because I there was a clip that I took because I was like, I gotta post this in the clip. I feel like it's just tune are you just sitting there bashing Vince Neil calling him fat

Unknown:

that No, no, I don't. Yeah, yeah. So

Chuck Shute:

but like, how does that I was like, kind of worried. Everyone's like, hey, take this weren't out. I was like, Is this slander? Like what it explains slander? Like?

Jon Levin:

I don't watch any of the interviews. I don't know what he said. So I don't really want to, you know, I have no idea anything about that. But

Chuck Shute:

is that that's the thing, right? If somebody, if you talk shit about somebody, could they sue you for slander? Oh,

Jon Levin:

you know, that's an area of law I don't really know much about. I do family law stuff, you know? Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Okay. I just wondered. I was like, hope Vince Neil doesn't like Sue me or Sue Don Dokken. But I was like, I mean, Don seems like he knew what he was doing. And

Unknown:

he just I don't I don't know. Maybe he was joking around. Yeah, I mean, but you look

Chuck Shute:

at like, what Motley Crue and the stuff they've said about other bands. They bashed Guns and Roses and Metallica and all this other stuff, too. So I don't know if that's just part of like the music business. I don't know. It's interesting.

Jon Levin:

I'm just I don't know, I personally think never a reason to say anything bad about anybody, you know, for me. I don't know why. was Well, yeah.

Chuck Shute:

I mean, the dawn? Yeah. He just he didn't hold back. You know, he just I just don't know what he thought. And he didn't seem to be worried about it. So I'm assuming he knows what he's doing.

Jon Levin:

I that, you know, again, I haven't seen it. Yeah, well,

Chuck Shute:

there was another part of my interview with him. And he talks about when, because when the band start, when Dawkins started, Warren Demartini was actually the guitarist for a short time. And Don said, he thinks he thought that Dokken would have taken off a lot faster, and would have been bigger with Warren Demartini. And so I posted that clip as well. And that started a huge debate on Warren Demartini versus George Lynch and

Jon Levin:

friends with both of them. So I you know, I Yeah, you know, music is not a contest for me, you know, it's not like this some sort of everyone's sitting with their guitars on like, one of those tracks and everything. Alright, man, John goes, who can run? You know, it's not a race. There's no, there's no like, way to compare things like like that, you know, you can like both. It's okay. No one's gonna be upset if people love both those players. I love both those players, man, you know, yeah, I do, too. You're allowed to do that, you know. So

Chuck Shute:

it was just so interesting, because people like, I mean, they swear they're like, oh, Warren is 100 times better. It's not even close. And other people were like, Oh, George is so much better. He is the sound of Doc and how dare you say?

Jon Levin:

They're both wonderful players. And guys, and Warren is a very longtime, dear friend of mine, too, you know?

Chuck Shute:

Oh, really? Did you know him back in the day with Warren and I've been

Jon Levin:

friends. Wow, I 20 years already. I think we met. We met at a show we did together. I want to say it was 2003 in Texas. And I think that was yeah, 2003 in Texas. So we played with rat. And I just sort of joined the band. And I think that was first time we met. But

Chuck Shute:

are you Are you pretty much friends with all these guys. Because you guys have toured with all of them mentioned poison, and you know, rat now firehouse warrant la guns, all these guys, right? I'm

Jon Levin:

friendly, friendly. And I like a lot of guys, if Warren is one of my close friends, like in other words, we have family gatherings and hang out and we don't really talk music or anything, you know. So our friendship has nothing to do with the band thing, you know?

Chuck Shute:

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, because that's,

Jon Levin:

sometimes we'll get like prepare pickups and stuff like we've done that, you know, like, we both like to analyze things that way. So every once in a while, we'll get together and grab like a couple les Paul's like, which man does this pickup sound the same? And that guitar is this one? And like, we'll record the exact same part and like, try and analyze stuff like we both are analytical like that, you know? Oh, that's cool.

Chuck Shute:

Would you ever like if you were going to do a side project? Or if for some reason you ever left dock and are talking ended? Like would you get together with some of these guys that are your friends and start some a new band of some sorts,

Jon Levin:

you know, I'm a one day of a time type of person. So like, I just swing at the ball as it's sort of coming. So I have no like, grand scheme of plan or anything I just like, but my approach is I like to just do today, you know. So today, I woke up, it's good start, right. And, you know, I played a little this morning, and I found that got a little riff going recorded onto here, like I usually do. And later on in the day, maybe I'll revisit that. And if it's still like, if I'm liking that riff later, then I'll probably record this afternoon. But I don't have like any grand plan for my music. I just like to play and record. Most of the stuff I ended up putting on here it goes on listened. Sometimes I'll be sitting in front of television, like, you know, listen back to some things and if there's anything labeled in here, that sounds that if I like a riff, I'll put a note in there. Like listen to this one again, or possible song or whatever. Sometimes I'll go back through and if it inspires me, you know, it's all about the motivation factor. Okay, is this inspiring me enough to get off my couch, go into the studio, start a session because I know once I get in there, it's a commitment, you know, and either I'm like, and it goes usually one to three ways Either I put the roof down and I hate it right away and I call it Shut, shut it down and I'm back to watching, you know, the break Breaking Bad or whatever it is right? Or it's somebody, it could be okay. And you know, sometimes they come together really quickly and it's easy. Other times it's a lot of work. So you never know. But it all depends on is the motivation factor enough. So for me, it's just like a day to day life. I don't have like any plan of what am I going to do with this music? Or what will I do in the future? I've never sort of lived like that, for better or worse. I never had any long term plans. I it's almost more like life by accident. For me.

Chuck Shute:

That's, that reminds me that Mitch Hedberg joke. Have you ever heard that one he's talking about when he's laying in bed, and he thinks of a funny joke. And he's like, okay, and I don't have a pen and paper next to me. So he's like, he's like, I gotta, I gotta get out of bed and find a pen and paper, or I have to convince myself the joke I just thought of, isn't that funny? Right,

Jon Levin:

you know, and you have, you have to make that decision. Because Exactly. You know, if something comes to me, you know, a lot of times something will come to me in the hotel rooms after the gigs, there's adrenaline still going, because I like to have coffee, I drink a bunch of coffee before I go on stage, you know, because sometimes I'm tired from the traveling during the day, and I want to I don't want to be lethargic. I don't like organizational authority. So have a coffee in the dressing room. And then we'll play the show. There's some adrenaline going and get back to the hotel room. And, you know, I'm sleeping like three to three hours later, all of a sudden, like, I wake up and I have an idea. And then I have to address that what you just said, Am I going to get out of bed now? Is this is this riff good enough that if I get out of bed, it's going to be worth it for me. Because if I get it once I get up, sometimes I can't go back to bed and then it's like, okay, now I'd be up at seven in the morning. Am I getting out of bed to record this? And I have to make that determination. And then sometimes I do and I think some I think about it for a couple of seconds. I'm like, You know what? This one sucks. Go back to sleep. Or you know what? It might suck to get up right now. But if you do it, I think you got a song. So then I'll do it. Wow, if that makes sense. What's that? You make that determination? You know? Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

So is this latest album heaven comes down? Is this a collection? A lot of those songs are riffs that you collected over the last since what like, was it broken bones? The last one before that. Some

Jon Levin:

of them are Yeah, I can't tell you which ones were old that I pulled out of here catalogue. older ones. Don called me one day and he said, Hey, man, I want to do something a little more bluesy. Or like maybe you know, a little outside the box like Whitesnake ish. I'm like, I got a riff. Let you know, let me let me let me record something. I'll send it to you. So I recorded Is it me? Are you Right? Right. Is it mere you had you know, was that because he told

Chuck Shute:

me that story because I asked him I was like, I love that song. It doesn't sound like a typical doc and songs. Because that's

Jon Levin:

why I never played it for him all those years that I had that riff since around the time of the last album. But that would have definitely, I remembered the riff. I knew I had it, unlike most of the stuff, having it, but I knew I had that one. And then when he said, Oh my God, I know I have something. So I'm like, I didn't know if that riff was going to come in to something, I threw it down. And I had a verse and a bridge, and I sent it to him, you know, piece together, so to see if he was going to like that direction. You know, I had a verse core, I would ever add the main parts of it. And he liked it. I come out of it. I'm like, I'm not sure about this one. I'm not sure if this is like up in our alley. So little outside, you know, and then of course, the record label then was pushing for a single for that one. And then Don and I were like, Whoa, like, this doesn't sound I don't know, man. This is like, why are they gonna start with something not in the box for us? You know, it's like, outside. So we were both I said, I don't know about this. And we both were like our heads were both like, blown. You know, neither of us ever thought that that was could have been that you'd like you said it sounds something outside of what we would normally do. Right? It was just supposed to be like something I think in Don's mind let's with the record has to have a little bit of balance. You know, let's do something slightly different. Right? It was more like just like that.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. And then he said that you guys are gonna do a video for that. So he said the video was difficult because it's kind of about a bad relationship or something. And he's like, he's trying to make it PC doesn't want to show like people getting hit but he's like, that's what it sounds kind of a battle. I

Jon Levin:

think it's fun. I think the lyrics are funny. Like just you know, I you know, I'm gonna lose the fight. I think I'm gonna

Chuck Shute:

lose. Yeah, cuz there's the girls hitting the guy or something like that with that. Wasn't that the girl hitting the guy? I think that's, I

Jon Levin:

think I know what part of his life those lyrics are about but but you should talk to him about those lyrics. But I know the fight he's talking about that he thinks he was gonna lose on so.

Chuck Shute:

Okay. It's a video. What's that? There's a video for that one coming out right

Jon Levin:

there talking about doing that one. We shot four more live ones. But the footage hasn't been edited. I don't know what's going to happen, but I think they are they I know that they were labeled. wants Is it near you for something?

Chuck Shute:

Okay, yeah, cuz I know that mountain and gypsy and those are like really high tech, cool videos with animation like, is that animation expensive? Or somebody's just doing that for free? Or like, nothing's

Jon Levin:

free man. And this one really? I think the first the Gypsy want, you know, yeah, that stuff can be expensive. I know that someone I think the person, the people that did both those I know did a lot of work on those, those videos, because I saw the evolution as they were going, you know. And when that was the first time when the idea of of doing a cartoon came up, I was first thinking like, oh, that's sort of, I thought map could be different. You know, I like different sometimes, you know, because every band does a live performance. A lot of rock videos can be sort of similar, you know, soundstage. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's great, too. And you have to do some of those. But when I first heard about the concept of doing cartoons, I was intrigued by it, because I thought, You know what, that could be cool and different. It's certainly better than a lyric video, you know? Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Do you think that helps to make the music videos and obviously, there's no MTV, but YouTube? And some of these videos have a lot of views on YouTube? And that I mean, that pay, does that help pay for the video cost?

Jon Levin:

Um, I don't know that that really generates any thing financially. But you know, we have to keep we want to expose the record to the fans, you know, the second you stop doing that albums have a tendency to start, like going away, you know, and we will our eye concept. As you know, we're touring all the way through next summer on this album, like we just got announced for our European tour, we're doing a walk in August of next season. So given that there's such a long way to go, I'm pretty sure we're going to be releasing quite a few videos for this record. Okay,

Chuck Shute:

is there going to be more American dates as well? I don't think absolutely.

Jon Levin:

Yeah, we're going to tour this album, this entire the whole 2024 is going to be about touring. Heaven comes down.

Chuck Shute:

Nice. That's cool. And then is it? Is it just going to be solo? Are you going to do a package deal for the American dates?

Jon Levin:

I haven't heard? Well, that could be both. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be both. But we're definitely going to be doing our own dates. No question. Yeah. And then I don't think I think on Europe, we don't, we're doing a number of festivals and a number of our own shows. But I saw a basic itinerary and it's pretty comprehensive. Six or seven countries, maybe? Wow, yeah, there was quite a bit on there, which was, we haven't been there. And since 2018. So it'll be really nice to go back. And, you know, toward this album. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

So the fan base is pretty, pretty big worldwide, right? Because I noticed like, like, when I got that interview with Don Doc, I mean, it just took off. And it's like, I feel like it's got to be more than just America where his fan bases. Oh, absolutely.

Jon Levin:

Yeah. And a lot of these places, it's unfortunate that we don't get to revisit them all that frequently. You know, when the COVID thing hit, there was no more international, you know, at all, it wasn't even a consideration like no one's doing, you know, at that point, nobody was, since the COVID-19 thing. We haven't done anything really out of America that I recall. I don't think so. I think it's only been US states since the whole COVID thing started, you know, for us now to get back to Europe, which where we haven't been in, you know, at that point would be five years. It's gonna be great for us. You know, we really

Chuck Shute:

yeah, they're gonna love to have you back after that long of an absence for sure. Yeah, South America, too. We

Jon Levin:

haven't done it a long time. I get a lot of emails on the site. You know, can you come back people from you know, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, they could bring dock and down here. So it'd be nice if we're going to do everything that we get to go there. I think we might do Japan too. There's some talking about that. Which

Chuck Shute:

ones have the biggest audit like which? Are you guys really big in South America? Like can you do arenas? We

Jon Levin:

do well, I don't know if we could headline an arena there on our own. But we do well, there. We did. We played that Monsters of Rock thing in Sao Paulo years ago. That was a big one. I think with Eric Aerosmith headlines.

Chuck Shute:

And what about the cruises? Do you like doing those?

Jon Levin:

I love it. I have a love and hate relationship with the cruises because I get sick on boats, you know? Oh, really? Yeah, I got to take this medication. And it makes me sort of tired. And, you know, so we just did the first and only one we ever did. We did the kiss cruise. And it was a great time and a great experience. You know, but the seasick thing some you have to deal with, you know, some people have no problem with it. And then the second time we played we played two shows on that cruise, you know, and on the second night, it was sort of laughable because we were playing outside on the top deck. And it was very, very windy and Rocky, you know, so just to be doing a show like that, in that condition was very surreal. You know? Yeah, yeah. That's very rocky, very, you know, not a little I mean, it was super windy and the boat was really rocking around. You know,

Chuck Shute:

so even on the cruise ships that like they because they move pretty slow. You still have to take the Dramamine or whatever it's called. Yeah,

Jon Levin:

I have you know, just it's just for some reason I just never was able to do boats without without taking the drive and me and I got to take it interesting, tired, but it is what it is, you know, when once you're up on stage, I had an absolutely no problem, you know, and for the whole cruise that kept me fine. You know, I felt okay. Just little dehydrated, but all good.

Chuck Shute:

Nice. And then what about would you be? Would you guys be doing more shows with George Lynch because that's kind of been a good package with a doctor.

Jon Levin:

So I really enjoyed doing those. You know, it's been great. So I don't see why we wouldn't. But how

Chuck Shute:

does that work for him? Because he George comes and joins for a couple songs at the end? Do you exit off? Or do you stay on and play with him?

Jon Levin:

No, no, I played I play my show. And then he comes on in plays. And I like the last three. Last three. Okay, change off. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. And you see, you guys have a nice relationship. I mean, He's respectful of you playing in the band and doing His work. And

Jon Levin:

yeah, well, you know, he's a real nice guy. I'm and I love watching him play. And it's, you know, wonderful, you know, and the fans like it. He's in Georgia now. And he's, like, one of my favorite players too. I mean, so the whole thing for me is wonderful, you know? Right,

Chuck Shute:

because he's one of your biggest influences along with Van Halen. You guys got to open for Van Halen in 2015. Right. Yeah, that

Jon Levin:

was a trip. Yeah, that was awesome. Did you get to meet Eddie? Very, very briefly. Um, Matt, Ed's main number one, Assistant slash tech, you know, is a friend of a friend mutual friend. And walk he invited Warren and I to come up on the side and watch their show. So it was really awesome. You know.

Unknown:

So you side stage. That's yeah, we

Jon Levin:

watched side stage and during the show, you know, watching them and and Edie came over to me and he like said something, but I couldn't hear what he was saying. It's too loud. But that was my experience. Yeah, we took a photo together at some point in the day, but what an experience you know. That's

Chuck Shute:

really cool. What about you play? You haven't done a lot of other work besides docking? But didn't you play on Jeff Tate's Queen's Reich album? Frequency unknown?

Jon Levin:

No, no, not that. I didn't know. I thought

Chuck Shute:

I saw your name. Maybe it's the other is there. There's another. You

Jon Levin:

know what, probably the guy from Europe bass player, John Levin. Maybe? Yeah. Okay. Maybe

Unknown:

that's what it was. Yeah.

Jon Levin:

There's another guy here. Same name.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. You haven't done a lot of other album guest spots or anything like that. I've

Jon Levin:

done other than the warlock thing. I did a commercial for Dave's famous bread. They've spent what's it called? Dave's bread? Yeah, yeah. I mean, when I did one of those, yeah. No, I never. I never told anybody about it, though. But I actually did one of those. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

So then you don't see yourself. You're just playing the music, ya know, the

Jon Levin:

bread character comes to life. You know? Yeah, I

Chuck Shute:

saw that. I feel like I've seen that commercial. Yeah,

Jon Levin:

there were there were a number of them. I only played on one of them. But that was something that was sort of a fun experience for me. And let me see what else. Yeah, really, my life's just been about doc. And you know, I've been in the band for a very long time. And, you know, when you have something that feels good, and is good, why what to do? Why change that? You know what I'm saying? Like, there wasn't anything else I wanted to do. You know, I just loved playing with Don still do. And we're a team, you know? Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

So what changed? Because I thought I heard you say that after broken bones that you guys probably weren't going to do another album. Because it didn't make sense. It was just because of the lockdown. You had time. Or

Jon Levin:

if you look retrospectively, we don and I have both said, this is our last album, last three albums. Okay, after lightning strikes again, we wrote because, you know, when you do you know what it is? I can only speak for myself. And for me, when I feel like we did we achieve something musically. Then in my head, I started thinking like, oh, man, I don't want to do another one. Because I don't know if you could do better than this. Do you know what I mean? It becomes, like, you get over this fear, like, and it's not just overall better. Like, for me, honestly, I have to like think, okay, if I'm gonna do another one I need to play I have to play better leads to like, I have to there has to be better than the last one. You know, I can't just do the same thing again. So then there's that sort of, I pressure myself, you know, put pressure on myself. Not to be better than anyone else. But can I do better now? I don't know if I could do better. Maybe this do I have more to go? You know, so I need to it for me. I only can get the motivation to do it. When dawn kicks me in the pants. Let's do another one. Come on, you know, let's go I need that. When he does that. Then he could get me motivated because I have I have to conquer that sort of fear in my own mind. I'm just being honest. You know, I get into this situation like can I do better than that? I don't know. You know, can

Chuck Shute:

we it's interesting. I didn't know Yeah, cuz like The solos on this ground like especially fugitive, and Gypsy, those solos are amazing.

Jon Levin:

Thank you. So happy to get the leads. Really, I those were the demo those two songs with the demo. So as Don said, I liked the demos don't redo them. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Good call. Yeah, they're perfect. They're amazing. They're,

Jon Levin:

I trust I trust on, you know, like, I know, like, I don't have to set when he gives me advice on something like I have John, I like this leave, and I trust him. John, let's change that change this one, you know, I take his direction, because I know, you know, we I just have that relationship with him. I trust him. You know, I trust his directs his Production Direction, when he gives me an idea of St. John, on this section, you should go for here try try and go this way. You know, I trust his musical musicality. Fortunately, on this one for soloing. He liked most of the solos I did. I don't think there was anything he said, I want you to redo anything. You know, which was nice, because, you know, again, I trust him, I trust him in the past. But, you know, I had the benefit of time to on this one, you have to understand because I have my own studio. When we recorded hell to pay and lightning strikes again. You know, we're paying five or $600 an hour, right? So when it comes time to do a lead, he'll be like, Okay, here's take it take an hour and do some solos, I didn't have the benefit of saying, Oh, well, I want to take a whole day to get sounds and then I'll, I'll try one whole day at once. So what No, it wasn't like that man, do the lead. You know, you got half an hour or an hour, do the solo. Okay, next one. That's good. Next, so it was more like that. So that's more of a pressured situation. And when for me, when I'm under that type of pressure, I'll have a tendency to like not want to reach out too far. You know, because I know I need to get it done. If I know I need to get it done. For example, like if you whatever it is, you'd like to do drive a car, fly a plane, you got to drive a car from A to B, you know, you're gonna go you know, you have to get there, take the quickest, safest route route to get there, right, don't start going down this cliff sides, and you know you want to, so I started playing it more safely, you know, but when we got to the point that we did broken bones, I had my own Pro Tools studio. Even though I didn't really know how to work it at that time, our engineer Darian came to my place and set it up so that I was able to just hit a button and play lead after lead. You know, now I know how to do it all on my own. But that was a huge game changer for me. Because it gave me the the the gift of play when you feel it. Play well play it when you feel it, call a couple leads go, you know, when you're done, fine, be done. Come back two days later, do a few more. And I would do them over time like that, you know, and when I would finally have to get kicked in the pants to go through it all. And I would have amassed 1520 30 leads, all of which I haven't listened to for all these different tracks. So now it becomes okay. It seemed like whatever I cut on that particular day had its own direction. You know what I mean? I seem to have latched on to something on that day. And this is what that they produced. Next day, go listen to the next session. next day's work completely different. Okay, this is completely different than that. So now which of these two directions is better, and then every, every different session would have its own type of soloing, completely different. So then I would first have to, you know, bounce my ideas. My friend, Rob Hoffman, who is like one of my oldest friends and he manages extreme. I call Ron if I couldn't figure out which one which direction to go, I'd call him up and I'd played before with him, Robbie, tell me which which direction or this is the best for this. And he would like say, Okay, I like this one, or I like this one. And then I narrowed down to the direction. Then I listened to all the solos within there and said, Okay, do I have a complete pass on that direction? And if I had it, hey, is this what do you think of this pass is good. Okay, done. Or I liked that pass. But I liked the ending on this on this little the fifth one that I would compet.

Chuck Shute:

Wow, that's crazy to think of like, you know, music could be totally different. Back in the day. If musicians had that flexibility. We might be hearing totally different solos on songs that we all love.

Jon Levin:

Oh, yeah. You know, depending on how far back you went. I mean, once we got to the point of multi tracking, and for for bands that had money, and we're able to spend time see money and time back in the day would equate to a lot of times better creativity. Sometimes it was money and time. You're a guitar player. There's a lot of big budget, and I could take two weeks and do my leads. All right. And we got a great engineer. I'm going to play 50 leads and let let them make a comment.

Chuck Shute:

You know, yeah, I guess there's the other extreme of that is like the Chinese Democracy that's like maybe they took too much time with that one. Yeah,

Jon Levin:

you can go down that rabbit hole to dawn. I was always good about making sure I didn't do that. Yeah, yeah. Because I haven't I can have ADD and start going in a lot of directions. And if he if I would, if he was there, and I was doing a lead back in those earlier records, and he knew that I had a past but okay, that's good. Just now at the end, just fix that. And you're good. Like, you know what I mean, he would be able to do in that capacity. But like I said, you know, Pro Tools was like, he

Chuck Shute:

never He never chopped up your soul. He said, I don't know if this is true. He I thought he told me that he, he chopped up some of George solos back in the day and piece them together. I don't know if I

Jon Levin:

wasn't there. So I can only speak to it's like, I'm a lawyer. I could say firsthand experience. I have no idea man. I wasn't there.

Chuck Shute:

I love I love the lawyer to answer the questions. Right? Yeah, you

Jon Levin:

know what it is? It's just like, I can't speak. I wasn't there. And I'm gone said it, then. Yeah. But

Chuck Shute:

I'm saying like he's ever done that with with your solo. So

Jon Levin:

yeah. Oh, not so much chop them up. Remember, we couldn't we didn't record like they did back in the day. You know, when Don was around, I didn't get to do 100 takes, you know, he made sure that that didn't happen. You know, when I was alone, I was able to do as many takes as I want. But in the past, he's made some good editing suggestions that he's done. There's been a couple of solos where he's where there'll be a middle section that you know, and then he would take it out and rush back and like, you know what, that that was good at it. It. I don't like it. Things are usually one one way you can approach music. I'm not saying everyone does this. But one way is like, you know what? Maybe the song is perfect. When there's nothing left, you can take out? Like, is there anything else that is there any parts in the song that don't need to be there? You know what I mean? And if you get to the point that really there's nothing here that should be taken out at this point, then you got to say maybe maybe that's the end, right? But if you have a solo section that sort of does that those those middle four bars do that is that adding anything, like a solo is a song within a song. It's these have a beginning, a middle and an end, you know? Is there is there a section in there that that makes this thing feel starting to feel long. If it ever for me, if it ever starts to feel long, something's wrong. I don't feel like it should like, go back and listen to some of the some of the most amazing guitar solos you'll ever hear from back in the day, you know, a credible guy said so much in like eight bars, you don't need to have a 20 bar lead. You know, the amount of time and the solo should not be some, you know, it should fit the song. You know, if it's longer and it fits, okay, then it's longer and it fits. But if it starts feeling like this is getting too long. I don't like that. And I'm usually quick to sense it too. And I'll take it out.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, what are some of your favorite solos from back in the day? Oh,

Jon Levin:

God, listen to anything off Van Halen, any Van Halen record but like, listen to Van Halen one. You know, is there, all those leads, I mean, Eddie Van Halen could say so much in such a little amount of space. He didn't need to do a 30 bar lead or a 20 bar lead it taught, though the amount of time didn't even matter. Whatever he did was right for the song. And every moment of what he did was magical. You know? If you're, if you're if you if

Chuck Shute:

you play music, do you play an instrument? No, I used to play guitar. And I gave up because of people like I was like, I can't

Jon Levin:

get back. No, you know, you should play it's good to play play for your own enjoyment. But my point is, like, if you're playing this, if someone puts the solo section up in his play, you have a blank canvas to play on. Like, I could start feeling like, Okay, this is meandering, like, it's to this section. I don't need that much space in this part to make my to make my statement here, you know, and if I feel that way, I'll go in edit down the soloing. I almost prefer to start with bigger space. And then I can cut it down myself. Because I don't know where it's gonna go till I really start getting in there. You know what I'm saying? I can only I'm usually pretty good at not going too long. I mean, you know what solar was a long one. When we did empire, Don said to me, You know what, I want you to do a long lead here. Um, like you do is like, yeah, you need like, I want you to do something like a tooth and nail along solo. So right away, I was like, Oh, I'm thinking in my head panic, because that's a lot. You know, it's a lot of space. He wanted me to it's a long lead and Empire. So for a bit there, I wasn't sure. When I was ever doing that one thing and I don't know if I could do something this long. I don't want it to get boring, you know, becomes a bit of a challenge. Like, that's what's so brilliant about like the tooth and nail solo George did. That's a huge it's a very long piece of music. You know, the Solo was so long, but he took you in so many musical directions, wonderful directions, you know, the melody part. The fast part and the melody part. There's no playing fast and that just for the sake of playing fast, you know, the kiss the composition that He did is just really wonderful, incredible piece of music. Like how many, there's not a lot of players that can play. I mean, I don't know how long that lead is, in terms of time, it's almost feels like it could be a minute. I mean, it's very long. But to be able to play a one minute long guitar, so, man, it's hard enough to do something for like 15 or 20 seconds and keep everyone's interest. But you're gonna play it solo for a minute long. And it comes out that amazing. I mean, that's a huge, huge accomplishment. Yeah,

Chuck Shute:

well, because you're not only just into a rock, but you also listen to like jazz and blues. Like yeah, I do

Jon Levin:

a lot of jazz. And yeah, I love blues. And I and I am a huge I don't listen to like hardcore jazz. I listen to like, you may laugh but I like the Christmas jazz.

Chuck Shute:

You know, like, yeah, like the soft jazz like watercolors on serious love

Jon Levin:

it. I mean, I really can't play any jazz. I can play blues, though. Pretty good. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Do you incorporate some of that into the into your soloing sometimes, on

Jon Levin:

some of the darkened stuff, some of my blue stuff is but not on the songs that made it on the album. Okay. I played with like a strat with a bluesy tone and a completely different triple together, you know, and that's what fit those songs, you know,

Chuck Shute:

yeah. You never get up on like a, like a jam night or something, or just like play blues live just for fun.

Jon Levin:

I would love to do it. But historically, I've just never been a jam guy. I'll really, I mean, I'm pretty tough that to get out to play like I've done it a few times. But I tend to I tend to shy away from it. But if it's certain things like I can't, like I know it's the right thing to do. And then then I'll do it. You know, but other than that, I have a tendency to shy away from it. For whatever reason, man, I just never, you know, other guys are great at it. You know, I always feel more out like more fish out of water. Like, in that. Then I do playing any doc and show. You know, I always just feel like the jam thing is much more. I feel much more uncomfortable with it.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, well good. Because it's so you're not really prepared usually is that I mean, it's usually just spur the moment kind of thing. It's

Jon Levin:

not prepared. It's with gear you're completely unfamiliar with. Like there's this jam night I used to go to at this bowling alley out here in Los Angeles at Lucky Strike. And I gotta have heard of that one twice there. And it went pretty well. But you know, it's it's a it's for me. It's a more uncomfortable feeling.

Chuck Shute:

Sure. Now that makes sense. Well, awesome. Well that the record is out now having comes down and then it sounds like you guys are touring and, and there'll be new singles out new music videos, possibly the absolutely

Unknown:

myRIO video, I think. Yeah, I

Jon Levin:

have a feeling we're going to do though.

Unknown:

Okay. I

Jon Levin:

know, just happy promoting this route this album. Yeah.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, great. Well, I hope to see you in Phoenix or Vegas or something. I'll take a road trip if you guys don't come here.

Unknown:

Yeah, absolutely. Please come to the shop. Okay, sounds good. Thanks, John, for having me. All right. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Chuck Shute:

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