Don Dokken (Dokken)

Don Dokken is an American musician, best known as the lead singer and founder of the metal band Dokken. The band has a new album “Heaven Comes Down” that comes out October 27th. We discuss the new album, touring with Aerosmith, drug use, ex guitarist George Lynch, living in New Mexico and so much more! Must watch episode for rock fans!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:14 - Sleep & Drugs
0:02:15 - New Album Theme
0:03:10 - Don's Path & Musical Escape
0:06:00 - Don's Look, Aging Gracefully & Vince Neil
0:10:00 - Dokken Shows, Fans & Meet & Greets
0:12:05 - New Album "Heaven Comes Down"
0:13:35 - New Song "Is It Me Or You"
0:15:15 - Women & Life in New Mexico
0:18:30 - Too Crowded in L.A.
0:20:47 - Musician Friends, Drinking & Drugs
0:30:20 - Touring with Aerosmith, Drugs & Management
0:35:35 - Rockstar Life, Sex & Aids
0:41:00 - New Songs & Breakups
0:48:10 - New Song "I Remember" & Reflecting Back on Career
0:53:10 - New Song "Santa Fe" & New Mexico House
1:00:52 - Don's New Girlfriend
1:03:45 - Don's Band Members Sue Him
1:08:45 - Warren DiMartini Vs. George Lynch
1:14:05 - Dysfunctional Album
1:18:20 - Guitarist Jon Levin
1:23:01 - Singing & Playing Guitar
1:26:14 - New Album, Music Videos & Shows
1:28:15 - Children's Hospitals
1:36:18 - Outro

Dokken website:
https://dokken.net/

Children's Hospitals website:
https://www.stjude.org/

Chuck Shute website:
https://www.chuckshute.com/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

Hey how's it going?

Don Dokken: 0:15

Good I just woke up 20 minutes ago looked at my schedule oh shit threw down Yeah. Setting it to bed till daylight I had doesn't matter long story

Chuck Shute: 0:30

do you have issues sleeping? Oh my dad has had issues sleeping then he started taking CBD and he said that that works wonders for him. I don't know. Is that what that

Don Dokken: 0:41

is? Yep, CBD plus CBDa

Chuck Shute: 0:45

doesn't win so does it work? Usually? Yes. Yeah.

Don Dokken: 0:49

Well I have THC chocolate bars but I take one little square and I'm stoned.

Chuck Shute: 0:56

Yeah, that's that's how it is for me too. That stuff's too strong,

Don Dokken: 0:59

tolerant. And I said give me the mildest you got. This has only got CBD and little. The problem is I would just do CBD. But you know, I did a lot of research because I don't smoke pot and never did drugs. But because of what happened with my surgery and stuff, you know, I get aches and pains and and they said the CBD doesn't really work very well unless there's a little bit of THC. So at the try to find the you know, the right balance, but I got some new stuff and he actually rub it on your skin and all your bad spots. And I didn't really buy into it. And sure enough, my aches and pains got better.

Chuck Shute: 1:38

That's good. Well, that's good to hear. And it's

Don Dokken: 1:40

New Mexico and never was illegal in New Mexico. It's not know who he is now. Okay. Yeah. And I thought, you know, he's fucking old farts in Congress. I mean, the fact that it's still listed as a schedule one drug that's up there with cocaine and heroin. Yeah, put it in like a buddy die in a pot.

Chuck Shute: 2:02

Oh, and in Portland? It's legally the early decriminalized all drugs in Oregon or Portland OR? Yeah, I don't know.

Don Dokken: 2:10

You started. I think Oregon was the first.

Chuck Shute: 2:12

Yeah, I don't know if that's gonna work out. But that's kind of what your album is about. When it comes down. It's kind of like how the world is kind of going to shit in some ways.

Don Dokken: 2:22

Yep, it is. That was exactly the title. Because, you know, I figured COVID came and we get back to normal and things are not back to normal. You know, we just kicked out the Speaker of the House first time in American history. Nancy Pelosi died. We've got every day in the news, some psycho bastard young guy with an AK 47 killing children in schools. I don't remember hearing about that in the 70s and 80s.

Chuck Shute: 2:53

So, so do you feel like the world has gotten worse? And a lot of ways?

Don Dokken: 2:58

100%?

Chuck Shute: 3:00

What is your besides like the politicians and stuff? I mean, what do you think? Because I feel like a lot of them, we could change politicians and lawmakers and policies, or we can have rich people throw money at the problem. But I feel like a lot of that stuff is not going to change. And so people change like what like for you Your story is so fascinating. With your background, and I heard you talking about how you grew up in foster homes. And I mean, I used to work with at risk kids, and a lot of them don't take the path of being a successful musician. So how did you do it?

Don Dokken: 3:28

No. Yeah, I was in an orphanage. You know, I have my mother and father and beginning. And my father and there were 16. Yeah, early, but you know, back then people couldn't believe it. You know, they still had the draft. You had no choice. You know, they used to have this wheel and balls, like, you know, the lottery. And a certain balls came out and it was your number you had to go in the army. And I thought that was bullshit. Anyway, bottom line is my dad got drafted, he went to the Korean War. And my mom just couldn't hang with me and my little brother and we had a baby sister. And so we went to a like a boy's home that my father actually was also raised in and foster homes. And, you know, I was kind of a dark sheep of the family. You know, everybody in my family always thought that I would end up in prison or something. As a drug dealer, or like because, you know, I wasn't off to a good start. And I think that's what saved me. Like I've told some other people, I would come home and like the fourth and fifth grade, my mom bought me a cheap Silvertone guitar made by Sears and I would just go in the garage and this little corner next to the washing machine with my little turntable with 40 fives and just play them I just kept practicing trailer in the songs that got me going that was my escape.

Chuck Shute: 4:54

Is that still your escape now like right because you're still making music?

Don Dokken: 4:58

Well, this will I will be making any music anymore. But, you know, this is our last record, I have no choice. You know, I can't play piano. I just shipped it to my daughter who's a classical pianist. But you can see my my left hand is perfect. Right? My right arm is fucked. My alarms paralyzed my shoulder now,

Chuck Shute: 5:18

and there's no way they could, there's nothing they can do to fix it at this point.

Don Dokken: 5:22

And it's been three and a half years, dude. They severed all the nerves in my spine, very, very simple surgery, C four, C five, they take the, my spine was compressed a little bit and we want to spread them out. And the guy somebody just whacked a big bundle of nerves and separative. And they say they grow back to millimeters. Like a week. So I did the math from here to here, so my arm will be fine when I'm 120

Chuck Shute: 5:53

Oh, shit. Yeah.

Don Dokken: 5:55

So it's over.

Chuck Shute: 5:57

Yeah, well, I mean, you've got this legacy. And you've got this new album to talk about the new album. I like that the first song fugitive and that's the single that's out now. And the music videos Cool. Well, you know what, one thing I really noticed about it was interesting. Is it. Like the way that you look at it is you look cool. You're not trying to look young. You don't have a big fake poofy wig or spandex. Like you've got this cool hat. You got the jewelry? Like does that matter for your beard? Like Robert Plant? Like there's different ways to age I feel like for musicians and like Robert Plant you you're doing it right, you're like, look, I got a beard. I'm an older man. But you know, you're you're taking that in and saying you're owning it. You're not trying to fake it and trying to pretend like you're 25 anymore. Is that something that

Don Dokken: 6:40

you there's two looks in that video. There's me with the beard and my hat and then the other B we call it altered on when I'm wearing a leather jacket and a hat and more rock and roll. So yeah, there's two looks in that video. Me just me how I look and then meanwhile, more rocked out and I just you know don't feel have just age gracefully. I look at I met Clint Eastwood. He has a home up here. A Casita, they call a little guest house people come up here to ski and he's 91 and he just aged gracefully. Robert Plant You can tell he said no plastic surgery. You know, living in LA everybody's getting taught Botox lifted. A lot of you know, I mean, Vince Neil had a facelift and they actually filmed it and showed it on TV. Here's vans getting his face lifted. And I'm like, Okay. I don't know why he did that. He just need to lose 150 pounds.

Chuck Shute: 7:45

Yeah, I mean, I'm worried I can concerned about him with his with the fire. I mean, people make jokes, but I'm like, legitimately worried about his health. I like him. He seems like a nice guy. So

Don Dokken: 7:54

he is when he's sober. I've known him. For a long, long time, he lived three blocks from me. And he came over to my house and he said, Hey, I'm selling my 240 z, because I'm buying a Pantera. And I bought the Z from him. And within a month, he only had that current month, and then he killed Brazel. So and then I saw him like a week later, which I felt bad and saying that it's not my business, but I saw him a week later and he was wasted. Not drinking pretzel. Yep. And I'm thinking Wow. And beyond Razzle that I met the girl that he hit. She was like in a Volkswagen or something. I mean, she was totally she's mangled for the rest of her life. She's really crippled. She came to a few my shows and said, I'm the girl that that Vince ran into, and I went, Oh, man, you're, you know, she has on a cane and scars on her face, and she really got hurt. You know, I guess when you're famous, you can get away with it. I think he was only in jail for five days. You know, I mean, if I did that I'd be in jail for 30 years.

Chuck Shute: 9:04

You don't think you could have used your fame as well?

Don Dokken: 9:10

Well, I mean, no, I don't know. I wasn't famous than I had been put up breaking the chains. I just put it out. But the bottom line is, you know, there's so many stars Robert Downey Jr. and he was arrested by time they kept letting them out, let him out, let him out. And he finally got clean. I think when it comes to those kinds of behavior, it's up to us. You got to you got to you know, get your shit together and and learn a lesson. I mean, he dodged a bullet. And I want to talk about Ben's, I mean, I feel bad for my hobby, you know, confined his way and find some spiritual guidance, you know, to go through his life and it's just the way it is. But you know, I'm on the road all the time now. And now we got this new thing where we have triage behind the stage in the body and the shoulders like five people laying back there that have overdosed on fentanyl. Behind our stage. They're taking it during, or oxycontin was like during our show. And we get off our show. We see all these people back. They're all lined up and they're given him Narcan trying to bring him out of it. They're popping fentanyl. You know,

Chuck Shute: 10:25

I thought that was more of a younger man's drug. I mean, well, I guess there's some younger doc and fans out too. but jeez, that's I just wouldn't think that's a place where that's how I guess it's just happening everywhere.

Don Dokken: 10:36

That's funny, you say that. Because, you know, after a 50 year career, I would think, you know, of course, there's nostalgia associated with Dogon, people want to come see us and hear the hits they grew up with when they were young, into the fire, breaking the chains, the hunter is not love. But when I look out in the audience, I see a lot of young people in their early 20s 30s 40s 50s Six, I mean, it's a very wide demographic of our audience. Now us I see five or 6000 people, it's all mixed up. And I and I have, you know, we have these new things he wants to do called meet and greets. So I meet people afterwards, and I pick their brains and you look like you're 24 You weren't born when I wrote these songs. And they say my parents gave me their records and their CDs. And we got turned on the dock and 10 or 11 or 12. But we couldn't come to the concert. were too young. So I brought home as interesting. So you have people older coming to see us for nostalgia and you got young people just just been turned on to his now. So it's a very wide demographic.

Chuck Shute: 11:47

Yeah, no, that's that's really cool. And now to the streaming I know artists obviously hate the streaming but that is a wave to discover older bands, newer newer bands, old songs, new songs, listen to this new album that comes out people can also get the new album on vinyl I hear

Don Dokken: 12:04

it's coming out on vital them little disappointed with that because you can only fit 10 songs on a record five aside, that's all the room there is. And we wrote for we wrote 24 songs for the new avenue admin comes down. And we picked our 14 favorites. I mean, we didn't want any what I call B songs. That has been my disappointment with my peers since the 80s. You know, they write that one great song or two great songs and the rest is all filler. You must do that too. You're right the outlaws great song up either record or upload or record. And the rest of us kind of like it. Just the same old stuff we did 30 years ago. Nothing new nothing fresh. So that's a bummer it bums me out so we said look, I don't give a shit. How long was record takes? Every song has to be in a zone in my opinion as the producer. Yeah. And we feel like it'd be different you know fugitive has nothing to do with the next video. Gypsy gypsy fugitive totally different songs.

Chuck Shute: 13:13

Yeah, totally different videos too. I love the gypsies got the animated stuff. It's really cool. Totally

Don Dokken: 13:18

different. Yeah, some girl drew that by hand in Poland. Really? That's not animated. That's not AI. Oh, spirit that she driven through it by hand. one frame at a time.

Chuck Shute: 13:31

Oh, that's cool. What about the song? Is it me? Are you it's sleazy riff did you come up with that reference? Your guitarist John Levin come up with on did

Don Dokken: 13:41

it well, as we I mentioned to him one day I said maybe we should do a song that's cut down like a Whitesnake feel more bluesy, you know? Because that riff goes down and then they're down at it. And they do that. That endearing? It's not a typical doc and song. If I said I go, this would be a perfect rip for a stripper. Yes, exactly. It's a stripper song. So he wrote that riff. And I went, huh. And he didn't want to play it for me. He goes, I didn't play this for you because I figured he wouldn't like it. And I said, I like it. It's different. And we had a long discussion me and him in the studio where we're woodshedding I said, Look, a good songs a good song, John. You know, you got to get it out of your head because John grew up listening to Doc and he was in high school. And I said, Look, good songs. Good song. We don't have to keep writing. songs sound exactly like the old school doc and a good songs a good song. So I liked that riff. And I wrote the lyrics. And it's cool. And I'm working on that video right now. And I have to tell you, that's the hardest video we've ever had to make. Because it's about a guy and a girl and they're not getting along. They're fighting and he's trying to figure out if he's the bad guy or she's the bad girl and you got to walk the fine line because As the world's changed, it's all PC. If I make a video on the show, the girls smacked me upside the head. You know, they get up people get pissed off and I don't like that. You know, I mean, in the 80s when a girl walked backstage and she had a short miniskirt on and a push up bra, her boobs hanging out, we would I would say a man your ass looks great in their skirt or baggy look great. If I say that now. They're going to sue me for sexual harassment.

Chuck Shute: 15:29

Yeah, I'm scared to comment on a woman's looks at all. Again, even if it's complimentary and say hey, you look great. What you're talking about my physical appearance. You can't do that. So yeah, you

Don Dokken: 15:39

can't do that. I mean, can't fucking believe it that, you know, they dress like that. Not anymore. Not like the old days in the 80s.

Chuck Shute: 15:48

Or have you been to the gym lately? Because that is Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Yeah, the gym now the women at the gym. I mean, I need like a blindfold when I go work out because it's, it's crazy in there. I'm trying not to look, I tried to be respectful. But boy, it's hard not to.

Don Dokken: 16:05

It's so funny when I go to the gym straight to walk away from you. When I go the gym now I swear to God, I have seen women in their gray hair when their late 60s or early 70s. And their bodies are awesome.

Chuck Shute: 16:21

Because they're going to the gym

Don Dokken: 16:22

as they go to the gym. And and you know, and I got my friends are lucky for me after I got paralyzed and EPA drive or fucking town to go to the gym. It's five minutes from my house, even though I live in the middle of nowhere. And literally, I mean, New Mexico is an interesting place. You know, in LA, everybody dyes their hair. They all want to stay young and want to get Botox. And what the fuck are this pop up for emojis? And the women here are like, this is me. I got gray hair. So what? And they look hot man telling you they look hot.

Chuck Shute: 17:03

I like that. See? That's what I'm saying. You're just embracing your age. That's I think that's the way to do it. I think it's way more painful to say no, I'm 25 When you're 70 and try to fake people. I don't think anybody buys it.

Don Dokken: 17:18

No, I mean, when people wear that thing called lemon Lulus, you know, as bands that tuck up, lift up your butt, and tuck in your tummy, and everybody's wearing them. And I see women literally, you know, over 60, and they look great. They literally look great, and they're owning it. And they're not dyeing their hair, doesn't mean Mexico's you know, more. You know, cowboys and horses. And, you know, people say you live in the desert as well, not really, people understand that. New Mexico is not the desert, I live in the high mountains. My estate is 8000 feet up in the mountains. I mean, when I come off the road, it takes me two days, just to get used to breathing. You know, because I'm not used to all the high altitude. But people are different here. They just own their age and their wrinkles. And you can tell they've spent their life on a ranch or something, you know, they haven't been sitting, you know, at the beauty salon and Beverly Hills her whole life. So it's kind of funny.

Chuck Shute: 18:21

That sounds amazing. That sounds like the way like, it's nice that you're you have the distance in the space. But you're also close enough that you're five minutes from the gym, because what was the one song you have the end of the album Santa Fe, it's like an acoustic number very cool song. But here's an interesting line about too many people around. Is that kind of inspired by moving to Santa Fe.

Don Dokken: 18:42

Yeah, you know, here I've done like 1214 world tours, you know, I go away, because when we go on tour, you know, we'd be gone for a year, you know, a year and a half. And I get back and I just kept saying that. Am I imagining things or is it getting more crowded? Is it getting more traffic? You know, in the 80s that used to happen. They call it the five o'clock rush hour traffic report. There is no more five o'clock. It's just six in the morning to one in the morning. It's bumper to bumper. You know, people coming in over the border. The illegal aliens, you know, Mexico's only 80 miles away. And I was like, Damn, man. So here I thought my whole life. My whole life. I lived in the South Bay. I was a surfer. All my homes. I had several home they're all within five minutes the beach. I liked the beach. And then it just kept getting more and more crowded, you know? And that's when I decided to move and go up into the canyons of Beverly Hills and I found a house way up in the hills. On this one street, you know you got had I had Gene Simmons live on the same street Paul Stanley and we all lived on the street called Benedict Canyon. And so I bought some land and a house and it was quiet and peaceful and but then you know when Mickey D would call me, you know, when he's in town with the scorpions or even Motorhead back then the rainbow was like, Tim, five minutes from my house 10 minutes. And he call me and go, Don, come into town for one night, come down there, maybe have a drink, and I go all right, I'll come see you, buddy. And I just go down the canyon again on Sunset Boulevard, bumper to bumper traffic. Took me 20 minutes to go two miles. Ah, that's a nice said, Dude, I can't take this much longer. Yeah. So I'm up here now in the middle of nowhere. And I like it. Do you

Chuck Shute: 20:47

miss your friends? Do you miss being able to go grab a drink with a buddy at the rainbow and stuff like that? Or do you have put people down there that you can hang out with? You know,

Don Dokken: 20:55

everybody's left man. Every time I go on the road and see their Kip Winger. You know, crazy guns guys are Warren we just did the kiss cruise. And I have the lap. We did the kiss kiss cruise about a year ago. And we all showed up. We all had these big rough, scrappy beards, everybody. And I'm like what the fuck? Any goes COVID? Man. So good beard. Yeah, getting tour. And you know, we didn't shave. I didn't shave either. Why should I open the ship? And I start talking to all my peers and all my friends. And everybody just said, you know, we moved out LA. We're all gone. They all moved down to LA Tracy lived in LA and Phil Lewis and everybody in the all moved.

Chuck Shute: 21:48

Do you think there's a new scene though? Like I know Nashville has a lot of people moved there. Some people moved to Vegas. There'll be another like kind of LA's kind of scene.

Don Dokken: 21:57

Everybody says that. I know. Vince moved to Vegas, and I thought that's the worst place. He should be living. He's made millions lost millions gambling, drinking partying strip bars. You know, I can be 100% truthful and take a lie detector test. I never was in the strip clubs. I didn't get it.

Chuck Shute: 22:23

And you weren't into drugs, either just the Casio or be on the champagne or something. Right? Yeah, I

Don Dokken: 22:27

love my champagne. And I love my red wine. And then I have a drink for a couple years. And I say it wasn't working tonight stopped for four years and started again. And one of the big reasons doc and broke up the three of them. It'd be in the back of the bus and I could just hear the razor blade chopping on the coffee table. I just didn't get it. I tried it. When I was about 2021 I didn't get it. I just didn't get it. You know, even though there's an old joke about it, the Hollywood scene that if you bought coke on the strip and the 80s 90% chance it came from Carlos Escobar.

Chuck Shute: 23:07

Oh, yeah, for sure. And he was the real deal. You know, I

Don Dokken: 23:11

could I could tell good cocaine. It slices all rocks and you could slice it and he had the kind of marbling look like abalone and I remember trying coke and my poor girlfriend at the time she just you know we'd have sex for like three hours till she say stop. You know, I could go all night on cocaine and and hand to God, you could do real cocaine and just go to sleep.

Chuck Shute: 23:39

That's crazy. Yeah, because it wasn't a stimulant to pick you up.

Don Dokken: 23:43

It's not a stimulant. See, that's the misnomer. It's not it's an anesthetic. Ah, developed on the juice crease to arouse him really loud prompts my boys that post nasal drip, but they still have went to the doctor. He said he had polyps up in your nose and I need to cut them out. It's an all right. He takes a Q tip. Dips it in this liquid puts it up in my nose to numb it so he could cut them. And I fainted. Hmm. I passed out. I got the rush. My whole face went numb and I panicked and I passed out. So every time I had to go to that dis famous doctor, I can't remember his name. Now he did everybody from David Coverdale. Dax rose to everybody. And they'd always at Oh, I'm Dondo Oh yeah, you're the failure they say you're the failure

Chuck Shute: 24:32

liquid cocaine right is that was liquid pure liquid

Don Dokken: 24:35

cocaine.

Chuck Shute: 24:36

Crazy. What about all the other drugs like like mushrooms and equate ludes and all the other crazy shit. You never didn't want to experiment with that either?

Don Dokken: 24:45

You know? Yeah, I did that when I was 16

Chuck Shute: 24:49

it was wasn't your thing. You were more addicted to music and making music that was kind of your drug.

Don Dokken: 24:54

Well, you know you're 16 you want to experiment but when I say Say I lived in LA my whole life. I did and I didn't. You know, I was in foster homes. And then my mom got well and she moved to Lake Tahoe and living on the north shore where there wasn't gambling. It was like being Opie. The only thing missing was the sheriff. And I went to live with my mom. And our whole high school only had 500 students for all four grades. And we all knew each other everybody had the same business, snow cabin, snow bunnies, little cabins, little bar and all the kids parents had cabins. And we did too. So you know, when it's winter, and in Manos by Lake Tahoe man, when it snows a mannequin, you get to get six feet overnight. So I would be up to my knees, walking down to the only place in Kings Beach where I lived a mile from the border of Nevada. With my poor dog whiskey, he'd be up to his neck and snow to try to keep up with me the poor guy and he's like up to his neck and snow and we go down to this place like called the pantry. And we only had pool tables and pinball machines, that was it. And that was our hang, you know, and Lake Tahoe was a two hour drive to San Francisco. So you gotta remember his 1967, the year before Woodstock. LSD was coming on board. The LSD was still legal, I think, and mushrooms and all this stuff. So you know, these hippies I saw all the famous bands when I was 14 years old. Can we had a venue in Kings Beach? There was a bowling alley converted into a concert venue in America and I still have the flyers five bucks Jefferson Airplane, five bucks the doors. Five bucks, can he five bucks, you know, so I saw all the famous bands when I wasn't old enough to drive. And, and I didn't have any money. I mean, I used to Panhandle you got a quarter, you got a quarter and I got enough five bucks, go inside the venue. And they'd have black light paint all over the walls. And this guy with this oil and Black Light stopped psychedelic walls. And that's what I was raised with it. You know? 1415, I saw Janis Joplin and I saw everybody. And so that kind of got me, you know, going, I was playing guitar and a couple of my friends from high school, one play drums, one play bass. And my mom would say you guys can practice in the living room. You just can't go out of the house. If you're going to drink she would. It was illegal. My mom would go buy us a case of beer. And we just sit around drink beer and practice and jam and all the girls would walk in the snow and sit around or watch his jam, you know, and that was kind of the beginnings of my career. And it's very fond memories. There was no drugs. There was no shootings, there is no overdoses. You know, but yeah, acid showed up. I tried acid. I tried psilocybin, you know, and I was 14. But so I yeah, I went through that. And then, you know, I moved back to LA and then I just remember Mick and I talk him one day. And while Mick and I had some coke, and like really good stuff. It was pink. And he owes me that pink slip. So and I just realized when we started getting popular. I want to be a musician. You know, I saw my friends starting to get addicted, and going down the rabbit hole and and they're calling me because they knew I had a little bit of coke. And can you sell me a half a gram or a quarter gram. And I said, this is not for me. I can do better in life. Now I was like I was 20. And now I just stopped you know,

Chuck Shute: 29:08

you figured it out at 20. That's amazing. Because some people never figure it out. Or it's like they're 50 or 60 or whatever. How long. I don't know if he ever did get sober. But he's, he's kind of been on and off the wagon too.

Don Dokken: 29:21

And I love Steven and when he came to a few of our shows, I thought Jesus Christ even you had a stroke, overdosed on cocaine. And then you had a heart attack. He kept doing it got out of rehab. And he came to one of our shows and he was obviously wasted. And I thought holy shit, man. You know, you're you're dancing with the devil buddy. I love steaming. But, you know, you can't pass judgment on anybody with addiction. It's a it's a disease. If you can't quit, he got to go to rehab or get counseling leaner and look up. And if you and I could talk for an hour about the long list of all the musicians that have died, their careers have gone down the toilet, all because of drugs. I mean, when we toured with permanent vacation with Aerosmith, that was their first what they called their sober tour. They all got clean, they weren't doing drugs, they weren't drinking. And I saw them three years before that Lommy Turina. Which Hell's hell like 1000 people, there was like, 2500 people there. And I'll never forget watching them and Stephen threw up on stage. And I went holy shit. But you know, they admitted when they came back on that tour, they both him and him and Joe had these T shirts that said, the Toxic Twins. And if you remember that, he's talking openly. So I'm not throwing anybody under the bus. Oh, yeah, that's Joe Perry. They had these T shirts, the Toxic Twins. And you know, and they said they were doing, you know, half an ounce of cocaine a day. But, and the younger people don't remember that. Aerosmith went up to the top, and then they went to the bottom. They couldn't even get a fucking record deal. And they were saved by John Kolodner, who signed many, many famous bands, and David Geffen didn't want to sign them. I remember that meeting because I was trying to get a record deal. And Kolodner said, I believe in Aerosmith. We just got to get them clean. And they made the first album Done with Mirrors. Nobody remembers that record, because wasn't a good record. And I was talking to Stephen one night. And he said, Yeah, we just, we didn't know how to write songs straight. You know, we had a need to be fucked up to write a song. And they were clean. But they're really worried about doc. And because they knew everybody, my band, my road crew, my engineer, my bus driver, everybody was cooked up out of their mind. So they would put us on one side of the arena. And they're on the other side of the arena. Because they want us to stay away from them so they wouldn't be influenced, you know. And I remember that conversation talking about drugs in that. In fact, when my son Tyler was born, I was sitting backstage with Steven Tyler one night, got the phone call. I had a baby. It's a boy. She wants to name him, John. I said, I really don't want a biblical name. And I remember looking at Steven and I said, How about a by name? I'm Tyler. And he goes lucky. And I say anything happens to me. You're his surrogate godfather. And Steven Tyler said, Well, I'm honored. So I named my son Tyler.

Chuck Shute: 32:54

That's very cool. Yeah, so we'll talk about like what you said John Kolodner kind of helped Aerosmith get sober. But isn't there also the opposite where the record label people and the managers and stuff are feeding musicians drugs, and like I like I heard the story about Cobain doing unplugged. And he was so fucked up. They gave him he was like, I think on downers, and they gave him uppers to get them on stage. Is there a lot of that that goes on? Or the they're kind of enabling the musicians?

Don Dokken: 33:19

Well, not with my band. I mean, we had a manager called Cliff Bernstein. And who ended up they're the biggest managers in the world. New prime. Yeah. And when I got the phone call from Cliff, they had just broke away from Libra crabs, and they only had Billy to one band with him. That was Def Leppard. And they don't and they weren't that famous, they'd only done high and dry. And I remember clip East he was a very He clipped loves music. And he would go into music stores and look for records, you know, where you could go in and play him and economy down and found me and said, I like this record breaking the chains. I'd like to manage you. And he flew from New York, he had some business and he said, I'll meet you Tower Records, and we'll go record shopping. And I met him and he signed me and you know, the rest is history. He was a genius, Peter Mann's they were both really smart guys college educated. And if it wasn't for Q prime, I don't think we ever would have made it. The only bummer I didn't like was when George and I were fighting, which is infamous. And we're arguing and George is complaining I call cliff and I say Cliff help. Help me Help me Help me. And he say, Don, we're the managers. We're not psychiatrists, you guys have to work out your shit between you. And I was kind of bummed, you know, even after dark and broke up, and they went on their way that three of them. Cliff kept me kept me for another four years. But the point you're making is Cliff doesn't drain doesn't smoke doesn't do anything. They Never gave his drugs. They were totally against it. And they listen Yeah, guys gotta get clean. If you guys don't clean up your act, you're you're this close your feet. What do you say your feet are hanging over the cliff to superstardom. We're doing monsters rock stadiums. 100,000 people a day. And clip said, One more great record. You'll go on a world tour. You'll be headliners. And your crew will be etched in stone. We are right there. Right there. We couldn't make it.

Chuck Shute: 35:35

I mean, you still had a lot of success. You're playing arenas. You got money in the bank. Girls want to sleep with you men want to be you. I mean, what what does that like? And I've never had a platinum I've never had a gold record. I can't make music. So what is it like to have that fan base at that point?

Don Dokken: 35:53

was great. You can see behind me all the gold records, you know, in the world. You know, 10 10 million. Yeah. You know, it was a curse. I mean, luckily everybody and Doc and in the early days, were all single. We weren't married. We didn't have kids. You know, we're 30 years old by then. So, you know, we're guys. I mean, in your testosterones peeking out. I remember playing with Aerosmith. And they had a thing called the Green Room for a couple years. And the roadies would go out. In in length look for all the best looking girls and give them passes for backstage. Some would say yes, some would say no the other boyfriends with them. But I remember me and Steve attire, we go backstage and take a shower and cleaned up, go in the greenroom. And there is like 10 Beautiful, drop dead penthouse Playboy runway models, just gorgeous women. It was like, you know, what do you do? You know, we just pick

Chuck Shute: 37:07

up sounds wild. Yeah, I mean, for the average guy we just don't have I mean, people have those fantasies, but you guys got to live it. It's pretty crazy. Like that movie Rockstar. I mean, I'm assuming that's somewhat accurate. It is accurate.

Don Dokken: 37:19

Yeah. I remember Steven sets up ones, but I don't want to get in trouble with him because I love him. I just saw yesterday they canceled the tours, the tours learned. I've torn my lyrics twice. And that's why I'm husky. Now. I lost all my high range that I did in the 80s because I tore my vocal cord or my lyrics, just from singing too much. And I remember, you know, Steve would go, I like the blonde and I go, I like the redhead. I like the brunette. And Steven would say, but I want two girls and I'd say two. And he goes yeah, I like to have two girls who was and I said why these girls don't know each other. How you gonna? How you're gonna get them to both come to your room and do whatever. They're probably not gay. Or bi and he goes, they will be when I'm done with him. I mean, I'm never told that story. Steven goes, yeah, they might be straight, but they'll be by after I get done with him. That was funny as shit, you know?

Chuck Shute: 38:25

Yeah, I mean, that was the eight. This is different time don't canceled on folks. We this is, of course he seen there of his ways, is a mature man now. But this was different times 80s This was fun, carefree. It was a good time to

Don Dokken: 38:40

write. There was no AIDS. There was no nothing. I remember when we started hearing about AIDS, and I was getting ready to write the song The kiss of death. That whole song was not about a girl this. The kiss of death has written about AIDS. And my inspiration was one night I told Mick you know, if you're taking these girls in the back of the bus, you need to use a condom better be careful. There's this new disease and it'll kill you. And Mick made a really bizarre comment. And he goes, Well, I'm not gonna get AIDS. I said, What makes you think so he goes, Well, I only sleep with beautiful women.

Chuck Shute: 39:21

Those were that's what some of the misconceptions are, though people didn't understand it.

Don Dokken: 39:26

I'm like, Really, you think that disease cares if you're ugly, fat or good looking? I mean, he really believed that. And I had an uncle that I loved dearly. He actually taught me how to dance when I was nine. He was gay. He died of AIDS. And I said so you think the disease only goes after? Doesn't doesn't go get in fact the good looking women. And I said to him more than likely the good looking women that are promiscuous and groupies. They're the ones you're gonna get the AIDS from. And they make them believe me, so it's on him. That night, he said that and I went a deep encounter, like went through the tree she came so suddenly, I What I meant was she came in the bus, and then was gone. Like she had never been how could I have ever known? That whole thing? lost our deep soul I couldn't know. And she took me to the end meaning the hotel and brought me to the end with a kiss of death. That whole song is about a girl taking a guy to her room and giving you the story about oh, I've never slept with a musician before. And I'm practically a virgin, and you're the second guy I've ever been with. And it's like all bullshit. And that the kiss of death is about getting A's.

Chuck Shute: 40:50

Wow, I never knew that. It's interesting. Now you do. Yeah. Well, then you have a couple of songs. Going back to the new record. There's a song just like a rose, which is really catchy and lost in you. They both sound like those breakup songs. Is that about the same girl?

Don Dokken: 41:04

Um, I want to answer that. Really, okay. You know, most of my career. I had my first love, you've had your first love. Everybody's had their first love. I had my first love, you know, toward the late 80s to Southern belle. Talk like she just stepped out of Gone With the Wind, Southern beautiful blonde named Sarah. And I fell in love with her. And even though after we broke up four years later, and she got married and had kids and we reconnected and it just seemed like she always influenced me about I had to I had to realize why think all my relationships that I've been in, and I look back, I would say it was my fault. Not theirs. You know, guys, it's her. It's her. It's her. It's her fault. And I look, you know, spiritually when I'm meditating. I think I screwed up all my relationships is my fault.

Chuck Shute: 42:14

You know? What, that's pretty insightful that you can say that. Because most Yeah, you're right. Most guys say no, it's the girl's fault. So what did you do wrong?

Don Dokken: 42:23

I had so many girlfriends, but I seem to attract the ones that were a little bit off and on. You know, the girl I'm with now she's awesome. takes care of me. I had a relationship for four years, and I had half my friends saying run away. She's going to do you under and half my friend said stay with her. Cuz she was an heiress. And she was worth like$100 million. So I lived in a mansion and the Palisades you know, $10 million mansion. And we had the Ferrari and all that. And we traveled around the world and private jets. And she was a sweetheart. And she was an extra lead model. And it was great. But then sometimes I'd wake up in the morning. And I didn't know her. She'd be pissed off. She had that look on her face. I'm like, now what did I do now? Where do I do? So I find myself looking living with her every morning wondering, Is she going to be nice? Or is she going to be in one of her other personalities. And it was funny. The last time we went to Japan on the dock and reunion tour. She was in therapy, I was in therapy. And both our therapist said, Whatever you do, do not take her to Japan with you. And I said why? Why? We're getting along, because they saw something that I couldn't see. And they couldn't rat her out because that's against the rules. So I took her to Japan anyway. And my son and my daughter, because it was the doc and reunion tour seven years ago, all original members. So my son and Tyler and Jessica, my daughter, they wanted to go to Japan and see the reunion tour. And I took her to Japan we flew for what 10 and a half hours. We got there about six o'clock drill to Tokyo hour and a half we all went to sushi. And I could see she was hitting a lot of Sakis and I left the bar and went back to the hotel. And MC was leaving while maybe I said MC What's up Where's where's I can't say her name. She'll sue me. And I see goes I had to go. I said why goes she just started getting this look like she was gonna punch me. And I went really? No, no, her face changed and she looked like she was gonna punch me. And I went yeah, that's her other personality. And the bottom line is that going into detail. We got into it and she liked After next morning went back to LA, she wasn't even there eight hours. Wow. Just learned that, you know, all her money and her mansions and Ferraris, and her private jets and oh, man shit all. And that was the end of it. So the point is I've had a lot of great relationships, but they all failed. And I always blamed them. You're not understanding me, you don't understand. I'm famous. I'm a rock star. I can't help it that women are trying to sleep with me. I can't help that I'm surrounded with bodyguards, and two security guys, you know, trying to keep people wait, it's not my fault. But they would get jealous, you know, and they would get upset because they were not getting any attention. The only girl like I said, my first love. She understood. You know, she understood my job. And that's that. But looking back now that I'm older, you know, I can blame everybody. But I think that I was just full of myself. famous rock star. Now I'm a multi millionaire. And I have homes and all these fancy things and Ferraris and Rolls Royces. And I always blame them. But I look back now. I think it was me. Ego. And finally after like four years of therapy, asked my doctor when I met therapists, I said, What's the problem? You gotta tell me. And he looked at me straight in the eye. And he said, Don, you're an egomaniac. Wow. And I went, ouch. I'm an egomaniac because you're an egomaniac. You're a narcissist. You're an egomaniac, and you don't help hold yourself accountable for the things you've done. And that was a revelation where I had to try to change my life. And then I got into meditation and Buddhism. And I would go to the Self Realization center, that Paramahansa Yogananda, a famous yogi, the famous yogi, that was the first guy to come to America in the 30s. Teaching, meditation and spirituality in the 30s. So I got into reading his book, Autobiography of a Yogi. So I kind of changed my thinking, and every week I would go to and meditate and go to the meetings and try to go into my inner self. And that helped me write songs. That's the point I was getting that long answer. It taught me how to go into my inner being, and stop writing songs about it's not love, you know, the chick screwed you over, you know, just got lucky, this chick screwed you over. You know, I had looked within myself. And that's reflected by the new album comes down. If you print the whole album, there are no songs about love found love lost. None, zero. There's that one song I remember. And that's just me reflecting on my life.

Chuck Shute: 48:16

Yeah, that song is thinking about your past life. What do you think about when you look back on your life? Are you happier now? Are you were you happier back in the 80s? When you guys are touring arenas, like what's the difference?

Don Dokken: 48:30

I wasn't happy in the 80s Mostly because I had a dream. You know, I went to Germany in 1979. With one crew, Sam bass for winter rat, Greg peck on drums. I was a singer. I was a guitar player. We went to Germany, we had an invitation to play what they call the Beatle run that a lot of people don't understand if they're too young, The Beatles before they made it. They went to Germany and they played all these clubs. Five hours a night you know playing Chuck Berry in this and that you can Google it. The Beatles were playing Germany and playing and trying to develop their style. I mean, if you look at the first Beatles album, there's only two original songs on it.

Chuck Shute: 49:18

That's it right now they did they started with covers

Don Dokken: 49:22

all covers is singing Good golly Miss Molly or whatever. You know, they did it they weren't the Beatles yet they were just starting and then they did help then read all originals and then went on to revolver and Rubber Soul and Magical Mystery Tour and and I always use the Beatles as a guideline that people said you got to sound like Doc and you got to say doc and and I kept saying I don't know what that means. I'm Dundalk and I write how I write I sing like I sing. I write my lyrics I like write them. What do you mean? So like Doc and what does that mean? You know, and then you look at the Beatles, every album, they were changing, progressing, evolving, you can compare the first Beatle album, to Magical Mystery Tour, or the White Album or the Rubber Soul, you know, or revolver, they're always changing, because they did what the hell they wanted. And that was my fight with the band. Let's just write songs. If we liked the song, let's record it and put it out. But then you got the record companies going, it has to sell it tooth and nail, and as silly tooth and nail, and I might do that was 20 years ago, I'm just gonna write what I write. But the universe, you know, inspires me at two o'clock in the morning, unfortunately, between 10 and two, I've always said my best songs written between 10 and two in the morning. I just write what I write whatever the universe dictates to me. I've talked to many bands, and I'm not gonna say who? And they say, Yeah, we wrote a new album. We knocked it out in two weeks. And I went really, you wrote 10 songs and two weeks. Wow, that's amazing. I can't do that. I mean, look at Def Leppard their most successful record ever. pyromania? It took four years. Four years, right, that record with Mutt Lange, four years.

Chuck Shute: 51:27

Oh, and then yeah, well, not like Boston. It wasn't like, like 13 years. And

Don Dokken: 51:31

the guitar player was a whack job. I mean, he was in a studio and they said, he just kept writing and writing and rewriting and rewriting and rewriting till they got what they felt was the perfect album. And they sold 10 million records. So I had the same problem, you know. And I guess COVID was a blessing because we weren't touring. We weren't allowed to play for more than 100 people. So we had two years to kind of fine tune our songs. Trust me on this new album. I wrote every song three times.

Chuck Shute: 52:08

Really hard. There's a lot when you rewrite it.

Don Dokken: 52:13

It was done. I was happy with it was great. And then I'd be like, two months later, I go. I don't know man. I could write I can do better than this. I my own worst enemy. I go, I can do better lyrics. I can have a better arrangement. I'm the producer. I we can make the songs better. And they gave us the luxury during COVID to just keep you know, listen the song, wait a month, go back to it and go. It's all right. We could do better. And we did. And if anybody hears the album, I defy any of our fans or you or anybody to defy. There's one bad song on that record.

Chuck Shute: 53:00

No, I think the dock and fans are gonna especially will be really happy and yeah, they're all really good songs. And a lot of them sound like kind of classic docking riffs. Like I think like like I said, the Santa Fe I mean, that's like an acoustic sounds really cool. I like that one. It doesn't. I don't think it sounds like you know, some of the classic docking hits but I like

Don Dokken: 53:18

it I'm happy you said that. Because traditionally and Doc and we would always end her album with a burner. You know, the last songs deck a deck, heavy in your face, metal, tooth and nail lightning strikes again, till the living in, you know, we, we'd always end the arm with a fast song, right? So I wrote that song Santa Fe which is just me playing guitar and singing. And people might go What the fuck, you know? Yeah, it's a good sabe expect that we're gonna end the album with Paris's burning tooth and nail to the living in lightning strikes again. And that song was done. And that song came from me and Bill Palmer who produced the record, who was the only producer in New Mexico in Santa Fe I could find that was willing to drive up in a snowstorm, to my home to my studio. And we were just talking one night. And he said, How the hell did you end up in New Mexico? And I said I had no clue. I just wanted to get away from LA. And now that I had the money and this and that. I said in the perfect world. I'd like to buy a mountain with a house on it with no neighbors. And I found it.

Chuck Shute: 54:49

Yeah, it's an old shirt, right? It's always 25 Vegas. Yeah,

Don Dokken: 54:52

well, you can say church or whatever it means. Or I'll turn the camera around.

Chuck Shute: 55:00

Oh, yeah, high ceilings.

Don Dokken: 55:03

You can't see me. You see the ceiling? Yeah. Looks like a chapel, right? Mm hmm. In that nobody builds houses like this New Mexico. That's very cool. It was built by an eccentric billionaire who had a thing about churches. And everyone in the house has stained glass. And it's like, it's like living in a church. So I'm the second owner. And I was driving up the road. It's like a mile long gravel. And I kept saying to my girl, where the hell me going. But when I got to the top, and I saw the views and the mountains and the city lights, and I said, Yeah, this is a good place, I could chill out and be mellow and, and it was big enough, I could build a studio. And so I kind of live in Yeah, my band came up finally last year and visited me and they said, you live in a church? Yeah, it's kind of like a church. You know, but I liked the architecture. And it looks like outside looks kind of like an Italian villa. So the bottom line is I had a different environment to write the record. You know more you I'm sure you've been in a recording studio, right.

Chuck Shute: 56:26

I don't know that. I have. No, I would love to. I know you had one in LA that Michael Wagner helped you build and this one's foreign. And I had

Don Dokken: 56:34

it for 10 years. But most studios are just four walls. There's no windows. Yeah, it'd be soundproof, you can other anybody are recording studios just for dark black walls. My studio is all windows overlooking sound. Yeah, I don't give a shit about so. I mean, I can see the San Dimas mountains of the Colorado mountains behind me. I can look out see Los Alamos where they built the bomb. You know, it's just 1000s of trees and mountains. So a different environment to write it. You know?

Chuck Shute: 57:12

It sounds inspiring, is that you see nature to do you see a lot of animals and stuff.

Don Dokken: 57:16

Oh my god, I have so much footage on my cameras. My security cameras that are you all see a 5000 pound bear walking up my driveway. Here the dogs barking I look at the camera. I go Holy shit. Eagle bear, you know, walking up my driveway. And I'm like, damn, coyotes, mountain lions. But you know, coming from LA, I didn't know about that kind of stuff. You know, I have pictures. I can't find it right now. I have a picture of the bears down on his hind feet. Because I planted some hummingbird feeders one of my trees. And the guy said, dude, those bears can smell sugar and water from a mile away. Okay, so, and my one dog who passed Cody, my favorite dog. He thought the bear was a dog. So he wanted to go down and play with him. It's gonna be crazy. But yeah, when I bought the house, the Resolve is crazy shit like that. There's the courtyard. I don't know what the fuck that's about. I'm not a Christian, you know,

Chuck Shute: 58:37

like something from The Exorcist or something.

Don Dokken: 58:39

It's pretty trippy. And it snows and in and I couldn't understand why this house set abandoned for years. Because nobody wanted to buy it. Because you can't get home. If it snows. I have a one mile driveway. You can't get home. You're stuck. You know,

Chuck Shute: 59:01

four wheel drive or do you have like a snowcat or something? Yeah,

Don Dokken: 59:03

no, I bought a Range Rover and a Mazda Rottie four wheel drive. And, you know, I mean, look at the ceiling and how cool that is. And you see it. Who builds houses like that? And then when I moved in, I found out there were no nails, no screws, no plates, nothing. It was built by Mennonites and they used wooden dowels. Like from the 1800s You couldn't build a house like that? No way that wouldn't let you you know,

Chuck Shute: 59:37

that's like a total 180 from LA party scene and all that shit. Like it's just nature and

Don Dokken: 59:43

I totally flipped it. And I wake up every morning I took this this morning out of my bedroom window, you know

Chuck Shute: 59:52

that we have similar sunsets here in Arizona.

Don Dokken: 59:56

Oh yeah. Arizona. You got the killer sunsets. So I just figured it's a different environment. And if I don't like it, you know, I'll go back to LA, but it worked as far as musically, you know. And my dogs look they like to sit in the snow funny these fucking dogs and I didn't know if it would inspire me or I would be alone and isolated and no neighbors and that would make me depressed. But at the but in the end, it worked out

Chuck Shute: 1:00:42

it didn't make you depressed because I know you talked about how you kind of sometimes struggle with depression not not suicidal but sometimes get down.

Don Dokken: 1:00:49

I'm always down. But when you got to grow up that looks like this. You're never done. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Nice. She she won Miskell much she was Miss Wisconsin, you know? The neighbors if you got her? Nope. And I actually met her at a concert here. She was a darkened fan. And if one of those things like an in a movie that you wouldn't believe, like I'm making it up. I'm on stage. There's like 4000 people, and I'm looking out and I see the fourth row, fifth row, and I go, Holy shit, who's that? And I had my security guard go out. I said, fifth row, fifth seat in, ask if she wants to come backstage. And he goes, Dude, she's with a guy. I bring the guy back to bring her boyfriend back. I just want to meet her. Because she was so stunning, you know? And that was 14 years ago. And we're still together.

Chuck Shute: 1:01:51

Oh, wow. Okay, I didn't I didn't know that was good. Because with the breakup songs on the album, I thought maybe those were more fresh. But that was more reflect Okay, so you're you've had the same girlfriend for 14 years. Amazing.

Don Dokken: 1:02:02

Yeah, it's a weird relationship. We dated for three or four years flat of Santa Fe, I go flat LA, she comes to LA I go back to Santa Fe. And I go, I can't do this shit. This is too much trouble. So we didn't see each other for like 10 years. I went through my relationships, she went through her relationships. And on a whim, I thought I should call her up and say how you doing? How many kids you got? Are you married? Is no I'm single. And I said and I just got out my relationship with this crazy rich woman, you know, that live with and, and we reconnected. But the problem was she says I hate LA. Because she was a model when she came out here and she did movies and she was in Happy Days and all these other movies and but she always played the blonde bimbo. And she goes, I hate LA. And I said you know what? I hate New Mexico. I mean, it's just trees and desert mountains. And it ain't LA, you know? And I said, but if we get this house, I can't bring my cars 64 Corvette convertible 62, Bentley 63 Rolls Royce. They're all real. We're rear wheel drive, I couldn't get up the driveway. So I had to sell my car collection that really bummed me out. You know? And so here we are.

Chuck Shute: 1:03:30

So you don't want to go back to LA you don't miss it.

Don Dokken: 1:03:33

You know what, I have to go back every few months to see a doctor about my arm, or my tax accountant, or lawyers or this and that. And you know, when the band sued me to take my name away. I was dumbfounded. You know, I thought but my name is Doc and it's not a made up name like Nicky six or Mick Mars. You know, MCs name is Bob deal. And I said, but you can take my name away, sue my father or my grandfather and my great grandfather. But the other three of them sued me. And we went to court, very protracted lawsuit. I was very stressed out. And the judge took my name away. 90 and I just looked at him Are you kidding me? Right? You're going to take my birth right name away from me. And of course George and Jeff and Mick read like yay. Because they had this plan that they would go on his dock and without me kinda like our maiden went on without after blue Bruce Dickinson when they had the singer I can't remember his name now. Nice guy. But he didn't fit our many. I think it was no Blaze. boilie Blaze Bailey. Yeah. So So you know, Bruce it fine go on to his my Iron Maiden, but that's just the name. But Dokken is my birth name for five generations. Yeah, that's pretty nice walking to court. I'm thinking I got this man. I'm gonna win, you know. And the judge says ra Mr. Doc and you can't use the names often anymore on your records and I went, Your Honor. You can't do this to me. George Lynch while Mick Brown, Jeff pilson. I didn't even know those guys. When I did break in the chains. I turd Germany in 79. I don't even know those guys. I've been playing under the name doc and for years. Well, you know, you got an eight year old crotchety guy and he goes, Well, I don't see the difference between doc and and Don doc and. And I said, Trust me, there's a big difference. You put an album with your surname, people are gonna see it as a solo album. Right? I've been hearing that for 30 years, Oh, I loved your solo album, up from the ashes. And I always say it wasn't a solo album was a doc. And so it was really bad blood that I lost my name. And I Shame on them for doing that to me. And I never thought I'd play with them again. And here. I am doing a tour right now. And George Lynch comes on stage, the last two songs and jams with this.

Chuck Shute: 1:06:28

So how did you get past that? Because that's a pretty deep wound that would hurt. I would Terry.

Don Dokken: 1:06:36

You know why? When George starts showing up and playing those last few songs, and then it expounded re put lynch mob back together, they opened up for us. He has two songs. And I said we were laughing one night. And I said, Well, I got gray hair. I'm not a blonde and you got gray hair. We're too old to fight and argue. It's the past man. It was 30 years ago. Yeah. Am I still pissed? You stole my name. You took my name away from me. You fucked up my career. It is what it is masked the past. And there's this minister. I'm not into the Christian whole preacher thing. There is this guy named Joel Osteen. I just had a my night. And Joel said, You cannot look back. You have to look forward. Because you can look back all you want and be bitter. What happened in your past? You can't change it. And I found that from that. Joel Osteen. Very profound. Look forward. I can't well for 20 years about George and Jeff and Mick stealing my name away from me. Or cheating me or taking my money. And I said, Let it go, man.

Chuck Shute: 1:07:57

Did you Did you ever didn't even ever apologize? Don't say hey, sorry about that whole thing. Like,

Don Dokken: 1:08:02

nope, nope, nope, nope.

Chuck Shute: 1:08:07

Hmm. How did they justify that? Just because they felt like they outnumbered you or something?

Don Dokken: 1:08:16

She has been for her for 20 years. I mean, I can't get into it historically. I've read a book about it. But you know, George left. And Mick stayed with me. And Mick and I had an apartment. And he was staying in dock and and I just kept fighting and fighting and fighting to get a record deal. Our last showcase we did the whiskey. Warren Demartini was playing guitar. Right? Yeah. The whiskey Warren did a very short run. We had five record companies. I remember staying at the whiskey on stage. Look on the audience. I see George. What the hell he's whatever he's doing here. I thought he's an Ozzy, because there'll be said he's going to be an Ozzy, right. And they flew him to England. He was gonna be the guitar player. So we're playing I'm very happy. Warren was like 18 or 19. We got along great. And I'm seeing George in the audience. I'm like, What the hell's he doing here? And he kind of pulled Warren aside and goes You don't want to be in doc and Don's an asshole man. Everybody knows that Danza. You know, he can't trust on Don's a Nazi. You know, he's going to control everything and take everything and I'm like, whatever. So Warren went to rat, because there ELP I can't remember the name of it out of the cellar or whatever it was called. took off. And then one Chris GA said to me, and you could ask him if you ever interviewed him. I can't play with George. I just can't Uh, you know, I can't, he's too quirky. So one left, Warren left. And to find Jeff as a bass player, get a new guitar player. We had just landed the Blue Oyster called tour with Alberto Nova us opening up for 30 minutes. And that's when George came back in the band, because he had nowhere else to go. And that really is the history of Doc. And looking back, I have nothing against George, we get along fine. But if I could have kept Warren in the band, we probably just would have went way up a lot faster.

Chuck Shute: 1:10:43

You think it would have been that much different with Warren said, George?

Don Dokken: 1:10:46

Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

Chuck Shute: 1:10:50

I mean, they're both really good guitar players. But just you're saying it was it was easier to work with Warren maybe?

Don Dokken: 1:10:56

Oh, hell yeah. Because everything we did in the studio was a fight. You know, George Brown was to

Chuck Shute: 1:11:05

see or is Warren not the instigator in those fights.

Don Dokken: 1:11:09

George was, Warren was easy, breezy. We spent an hour on a solo with him. And it was amazing. And we're done. We're going to do tooth and nail. We have a 32 track recording console. I go in the studio at midnight, because George didn't want me in the studio while I was recording. So they'd all take off at 10 o'clock. And they'd all go the rainbow to find chicks and cocaine. So I was sneaking the studio with Michael Wagner. And there was like 1415, tracks the solos. I'm like, holy shit. And I would literally have to pick pieces of solos that were coherent. And we cut them, you know. And because George is a freeform guitar player, I'll say, he just picks up the guitar and plays. There's no structure. There's no beginning. There's no end. There's no middle. That's just the way George plays. So I go in the studio, take all the tapes, that's a good spot. That's a good spot. That's a good spot. That's a good spot. And we cut them all together. And then I go home at five in the morning. And I told Michael Wagner, whatever you do, don't tell George I was here helping you. Because he flipped out.

Chuck Shute: 1:12:36

Because he didn't want you to have that control.

Don Dokken: 1:12:41

And I don't say control is just input. I'm a guitar player. I'm a lead guitar player, I go to solo as nothing. This one track has nothing to do with this song. That track has nothing to do with this song. So I had had to like put it all together that it worked on the song. Classic example into the fire. The last two bars goes but a little interlude. He just stopped. We had we had two more bars. What the hell, so I had to cut it and he goes did allude to it. I just repeated it, because he didn't do an ending. Let me see under the fire. You'll hear the last four bars exact same riff.

Chuck Shute: 1:13:31

Interesting. I have

Don Dokken: 1:13:33

an end of the fire. George and you know I and I I think it's great that he was always trying to reach out and experiment and do something different. And George's, you know, trying to expound his musical abilities. I respect him for that. But it was a nightmare. So

Chuck Shute: 1:14:04

the dysfunctional i hope i love the title of that that was the first doc and album that I bought, believe it or not, because that's kind of when I started getting into rock was the early 90s. And did the George play on that song or he just did one solo who else played guitar solo?

Don Dokken: 1:14:18

What I decided after all the millions of dollars we spent on recording studios. Screw this, you know, I had the money I said I'm gonna build my own studio. And I did 710 Studios which lasted 10 years down in Redondo Beach near my house. So you know, it was Jeff and Mick and me. And we spent a year writing dysfunctional and it was a really beautiful spiritual experience. Because we had no record deal and we could do whatever the fuck we wanted. You know, we'll just do we want, you know, and I'd say, hey, maybe some sitar, there at a sitar and maybe some crazy tuning here and maybe some crazy armies here. We wrote the whole record and finished it. And I mixed it and I recorded it. And it was done. Then Columbia Records John Kolodner had left Geffen gone to Columbia start a new label called portrait. And he said, but you know, you really should get George back in the band. And I remember what I said. So you want me to shoot myself? Because I didn't because he didn't understand the dynamics. Right? So here George has gotten nothing lynch mob broke up. He came back came in the studio was very nice. He was very sweet. And I said, Okay, you can do the solo on to how to fly. That's it. Even though none egotistically everybody in the band said, John, Don, the solo you did was better.

Chuck Shute: 1:16:11

So you actually play all guitars on that album? Yeah, except for the soul that the to it to fly. That is such a great song, though. I mean, that's, that was the single and I mean, maybe some people think it's too long or whatever. It doesn't sound like old doc. And I think that's my favorite. It's what's that?

Don Dokken: 1:16:29

Eight minutes?

Chuck Shute: 1:16:30

Yeah, I can't remember because I grew up in Seattle. And I remember they played it on the rock radio. So not they played a cut and edited version. But I heard it and I go, wow, this is a cool song. I had to go out and buy the album.

Don Dokken: 1:16:42

It originally was nine minutes because I did my oh my gosh. To Jim Morrison was one of my big heroes. And you know, at the end of the song, I started talking Jim Morrison lyrics. This is the end, my only friend the end, the end of darkness. Boy, my horse today, too much talking. So I do this homage to Jim Morrison. Mother, I want to kill you, Father, you know, I did that whole thing and the breakdown. And that's when Red Beach, you know, came in later. And we play that. And I knew it was a song that would never probably get played in the radio. But it was just a cool. I'd say retro 60s song. So George came in, did this breeder the solo on to out of fly. And I said, I'll tell you what, I'll put your name on the song. You know. But that was it. He had nothing to do with dysfunctional. Jeff Beck and I wrote that album together. And I was very proud of it. And then when we signed to John Kolodner on Porter records, he made a commies and man, you guys are so dysfunctional. You guys are so you're still a mess. 10 years later, I want to call them dysfunctional. So we did.

Chuck Shute: 1:18:09

Yeah. Well, now you've got your version of the band. That's a mean, you're really happy. You've had the same guys for what, like 1314 years. I'm like that 21 Shit, okay, even longer. I thought Yeah, I love that your guitarist is a as a lawyer, too. That's crazy that he must be a pretty smart guy. Do you have a lot of good conversations with him?

Don Dokken: 1:18:27

His intelligence is way higher than mine. John had been indoor Pesch and Warlock with Tommy Hendrickson, who's now on Alice Cooper. And, you know, John just came to our studio one night, because Jeff was getting divorced. And John was representing them. And he walked in with a suit and a tie, and you know, like lookalike alert, very short hair. And I said, Hey, John, how you doing? Blah, blah, blah. And I said, you know, I got this one song, there's no solo. Why don't you grab a guitar and just put a solo to just put a scratch guitar now? And he's like, No, I don't play guitar anymore. I'm a lawyer. But I said, Dude, you're still a guitar player. So he sat down at the console, he played a solo, and it was brilliant. But then George came back and read it. So fast forward a month. We get an offer to play in Texas, in front of 80,000 people. But we have no guitar player. So I said, Hey, John, would you like to? Here's my setlist we'd like to learn these songs. Would you like to go and feel that rush that spiritual rush of being on stage but 6070 80,000 people and he learned all the songs in one week? Because he's a very quick study. And John, learn the songs we went to Texas played the show No. And he said, Ma'am, I hate being a lawyer. He knows it's boring. He did. He goes, all I do is argue with my clients. They think I'm a lawyer and a psychologist. And they're complaining and I want 50%. I want 60%. And because all they do is fight back and forth, I hate it. So I said, Well, if you want to join doc, and you're in, and you have to remember that John grew up in high school, listening to Doc and, and his favorite guitar player was Lynch. He, yeah. blacktip in his playing, he's got a great Lynch style.

Chuck Shute: 1:20:47

Yeah. And now he's living out his dream. That's amazing.

Don Dokken: 1:20:50

So now we have this part where we're older, he can go on tour and play with us. And he go, he's on his laptop, and he can also do his legal work. So that was it. That's how he joined the band. That was 20, almost 20 years ago.

Chuck Shute: 1:21:07

Yeah. So he's still doing a lawyer stuff to

Don Dokken: 1:21:09

you. Yeah, he's in the hotel room doing his shit. And he just doesn't like going to court. You know, said I had a couple of judges look at me, because his hairs like down to here now. He pulls it back in at point tells hairs really long and the judges look at him. And he said, once a judge said to him, Are you a real attorney? That was funny.

Chuck Shute: 1:21:38

That's funny that people still look at people with long hair, because I feel like not only long hair that I see on people now I see tattoos, like face tattoos on people that work in stores and wear suits and things. Times are changing.

Don Dokken: 1:21:52

Yeah, the judge saw that you got long hair, you can't be a lawyer. You know, he goes Yabba lawyer, and I actually graduated cum laude from Loyola and I know what the fuck I'm doing. But he does his legal work. Everybody in the band now is in a great place. John has his law practice. I'm retired. Basically, Chris has a big company doing print, and media stuff. BJ has 20 Drum students. We don't have to tour. We don't have to worry about making money. We go on tour, because we love that. And I no one's ever going to stand that unless you musician. It's the spiritual rush of walking on stage to see those fists in the air. And they're singing all my lyrics that I written. That's a rush. That's why we keep going. Is that a money?

Chuck Shute: 1:22:55

No, it's the love of the music. I mean, it sounds like that's what you were always into more even then. I mean, you weren't it never really got into the drugs even it was more than music.

Don Dokken: 1:23:04

I remember thinking in 77 we were opening up for Van Halen. I'd heard about Van Halen. I didn't know what they're all about. We are as special guest. I mean, we played I saw myself as a great, not great, but a good guitar player and a good lead singer. You know, I was kind of like a Dave Medicare II. You know, Dave sings and plays solos. I kind of follow the Dave Medicare you wine team, you know, way. And I remember walking back after the show in the dressing room. And I heard them go on stage. And I'm upstairs the whiskey and I'm like, I thought they only had one guitar player. What the fuck? So I walked out to the balcony and it's Eddie during his famous two hands on the neck. He's playing rhythm and a solo at the same time. And I thought, holy crap. And I remember that night, thinking, I will never ever be as good as Eddie Van Halen. And I decided to concentrate on singing.

Chuck Shute: 1:24:18

Yeah, I mean, he's not what was that the same show? Were you played with quiet right when they had Randy Rhoads? I mean, yeah, Halen and Randy Rhoads. I'd quit guitar too. Crazy.

Don Dokken: 1:24:31

Yeah, we did three nights. Randy it actually joined Wizard of Oz. And he was his two farewell shows with quiet riot. So it was Van Halen quiet riot and Doc and I have the flyer still.

Chuck Shute: 1:24:45

That's awesome.

Don Dokken: 1:24:47

And, you know, Van Halen sound was coming out in a few months. Randy Dory joined Wizard of Oz. And I remember that show it wasn't at the Whisky was a place called the star. would. And it was a it was a great show, you know? And I saw Randy and I'm like, oh my god, another great guitar player. You know, so I just started started to be a singer. And the first two DACA tours we ever did. I played guitar and sang. And my management, he prime said, Don, you should just put the guitar down and just be the frontman. And I told him, I'm no David Lee Roth. You know, I'm not gregarious, I don't jump around. I don't do backflips. You know, I stand there like Dave medicating, I play guitar and sing. Well, when you're playing Atari, you can't get away from the mic. You're stuck there. So I said, alright, I'll put the guitar down. To me that was that like them telling me? No more sex. Don, you can't have any more sex. Put your guitar down. You can't have any more sex. So I became the lead singer and Doc and that was it. And we went on and the rest is history. You know?

Chuck Shute: 1:26:06

Absolutely. Well, this has been amazing. He told a lot of stories that I have not heard before. So that was very cool. And the new album comes out. Ship October 27. Yeah, so whenever it comes down, great stuff, classic dock and stuff. Some little surprises in there too. Like the acoustic song and melodic catchy heavy. I love it. It's great stuff doc, and fans won't be disappointed.

Don Dokken: 1:26:29

I'm very proud of it. And we didn't end the album with the heavy metal double bass song disappointed. It's just me playing guitar. And how lucky I was I said, How do I write my whole life story? In four minutes if you read the lyrics, I was born in LA never saw reasonably cruising down Sunset Boulevard stay up all night with my friends. You know, it just the whole out. The whole song is about my life's journey to go into Santa Fe. And I'm grateful in in the record company. I thought they're never going to put this song on the record, but they did. And we're going to and I was talking to Robbie and John Lavin who's his best friend who manages extreme and he said you know extreme is going to do a video for every one of their songs on the new album. I went every song I'm gonna do a video every song and then he goes yeah, I go. So we will do so we got seven videos to go

Chuck Shute: 1:27:37

awesome. I can't wait and people can hear two of the songs now and to the videos are out now. So we'll wait for the rest and and then there's some shows lined up as well with a be more shows added.

Don Dokken: 1:27:48

He got seven more shows. You know holidays are coming up Thanksgiving, Christmas. We're going to take a break right now I'm in the middle of booking a European tour. We go to Europe, you know, do it all Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland, France. We're gonna do a whole tour, do the festivals. And then we're gonna come over two weeks, and then go to Japan. That's the plan.

Chuck Shute: 1:28:12

Very cool. I always am promoting a charity to is there a charity want to give a shout out to here if people have a few extra bucks after they buy the album?

Don Dokken: 1:28:19

Well, my my charity that I was very involved with in the 80s was I don't know if I want to talk about it. But it's kind of hard to talk about. I had a family member that came down with leukemia. And she was at the Children's Hospital. And I used to go see her a couple times a week. She was only eight years old. And I saw something that I didn't like, hang on, I'm getting some ice. Okay, I didn't like I didn't understand that I would go to the hospital. I mean, no offense to the Children's Hospital. But you know, you got out of the cafeteria and they got oh my god, they got you know. I wouldn't say it was gourmet food.

Chuck Shute: 1:29:26

No, yeah, hospitals aren't known for good food.

Don Dokken: 1:29:28

Anybody's gone to a hospital on goes down the cafeteria where the doctors eat. And then they bring the food to the kids. I thought man, I mean, you know, so for four years. We come off the road, usually about three days before Thanksgiving. And we'd be home for Christmas. Three days and then literally the day after Christmas. We're back on the road. So I started buying food from Whole Foods, you know Whole Foods, right? Yeah. And I would talk to the nurses. And I'd say I don't mean any offense to, you know, the cooks, but I was a cook. And so I would go to Whole Foods every year. And I'd order two turkeys, and you know, gallon of dressing and gravy and mashed potatoes and sweet potatoes and pumpkin pies in, I would pick it up the day before Thanksgiving and put it in to have a van, deliver it to the Children's Hospital. And this is what I did for almost four years, I spent my holidays at the children's hospitals, because Michelle was in there fighting her leukemia. So that's how it all started. And I didn't do this for brownie points. I did it. The guy just wanted to do it. And then some nurse ratted me out. She's like, you know, Don Dokken comes to the hospital every year at Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I would bring my guitar. And I go to the fourth floor, which unfortunately, the fourth floor is terminal. And I go to each room and talk to the kids, you know, and I play guitar. And you know, and when I tried to show them this and this and that. And you know, and I bring all this food and abandoned. And the mayor of Los Angeles found out and ended up giving me the keys to the city, you know, and they went through the parade and gave me a plaque. It's hanging on my wall. And and I remember telling the band and like What's this all about? I said, Well, you don't know. But I asked the governor, I said, don't just put Dundalk and just put all our names on it, you know. So I did that for four years. And that's how I spent my holidays. And that was a really great honor to get the keys the city, you know, think it's January 27, as he declared it docking bay. That's awesome. I love it. That's very cool. And I think is generous way since you're hanging in my hallway, and dock and day. So I was showing his band with turkeys and dressing and pumpkin pies and all this shit, you know. And the cool thing was a lot of these kids had cystic fibrosis. So their fingers were really fat, you know, from the disease. So I would bring really big glass slide guitar things, you know, so they could get it over their finger. Yeah. And I said, I can teach you how to play the blues and five minutes. And they'd be like, What are you sure I said, trust me. So I would put the thing on their fingers. And I tune the guitar to open D and I was drawn and they get go. During their day dad and dad do. Daddy, Dad, I just got their hands in the smile on their face. Like I'm playing the blues. And I'm like I told you, you could do it. So I just put the glass on their finger, you know, and that guide their hand but my lap and I'd strum and I just play some easy blues licks and the look on their face was so rewarding to me. You know. And that was a really good time, you know, during Thanksgiving and Christmas. But honestly, I was a little pissed when the nurse that you know Don spends his holidays at the Children's Hospital. And and then Christmas because at the Jones hospital, they have apartments, seeing stay there all day. And you'll have to leave, you just go next door. They had the McDonald's rooms, just a little toilet to bed. I could sleep there all night, and go back and spend my time with Michelle. And you know, it's unfortunate she did make it you know. So That's ancient history. But those are the things I did, you know, to try to pay it forward from my fame. You know, I can't just go home and throw big lavish parties and everybody's drinking Jack Daniels and champagne. I got a turkey and I'm like, I have to do something to take my fame and pay it forward. And I tried with doing the children's hospital for four years. And every time I walk by that plaque It almost brings a tear to my eye, you know?

Chuck Shute: 1:35:03

Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's a great message and very inspiring for people. So hopefully they can donate or volunteer some of their time for a great cause, obviously. So every band,

Don Dokken: 1:35:15

you know what, and when bands don't pay it forward, that I get angry. You got your 10s of millions of dollars. Be at the Red Cross Children's Hospital. St. Jude's who doesn't take any money, they do everything for free for these children cancer treatment, and it's just all through donations. Take some your damn money, instead of buying a Ferrari. go donate to St. Jude's Children's Hospital or the Mayo Clinic and forget about the Ferrari.

Chuck Shute: 1:35:50

Absolutely. Well, thanks so much for doing this Tom and people couldn't get the norm on the 27th.

Don Dokken: 1:35:57

Anybody does let the record send me a text or an email through our website, Dr. Don net. I'll refund your money.

Chuck Shute: 1:36:06

Wow. Okay, well, there you go. That's a pretty bold offer there. I love it.

Don Dokken: 1:36:11

You know, I mean it. Okay.

Chuck Shute: 1:36:13

Thank you, Dawn. We'll be in touch. Bye bye. Thank you for taking the time to listen to the full podcast episode. Please help support our guests by following them on social media and purchasing their products whether it be a book, album, film, or other thing. And if you have a few extra dollars, please consider donating it to their favorite charity. If you want to support the show, you can like share and comment on this episode on social media and YouTube. And if you want to go the extra mile you can give us a rating and review on Spotify, Apple podcasts or Google podcasts. Finally, make sure you're subscribed to the Show on YouTube for the video versions and other exclusive content. We appreciate your support. Have a great rest of your day. Shoot for the moon