Mark Christopher Lee (God Vs. Aliens film)

Mark Christopher Lee is a musician, filmmaker and UFO researcher.  His latest film, "God Vs. Aliens" explores the impact that first contact with extraterrestrials would have  on the world's religions and the role that AI will play.  We discuss the film, simulation theory, Project Blue Beam, his band The Pocket Gods and much more!

00:00 - Intro
00:47 - Idea for "God Vs. Aliens"
02:13 - Do Aliens Exist?
03:45 - Interdimensional Aliens
06:15 - Christian Church & Aliens
09:00 - Catholic Church & Vatican
11:37 - Aliens Connecting to A.I.
15:35 - Simulation Theory
18:13 - Drugs & Other Realities
20:15 - Humans Reaction to Aliens
24:01 - Are Aliens Good or Bad?
26:25 - Other Religions & Aliens
29:15 - David Grusch & Evidence of Aliens
33:50 - Project Blue Book
37:20 - Avi Loeb Harvard Researcher
38:47 - Project Blue Beam
41:30 - Zero Point Energy & Consciousness
42:57 - Pocket Gods, Jeremy Corbell & Joe Rogan
44:54 - Charity & Promotion
45:56- Outro

The Pocket Gods website;
https://www.thepocketgods.com/

St. Alban's Action for Homeless website:
https://www.actionforhomeless.co.uk/

Chuck Shute website:
https://www.chuckshute.com/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:13

Yeah, well, welcome to the show. I saw the last night God vs. Aliens. fascinating topic for sure. And I guess I should just put like a disclaimer on this episode that, you know, a lot of this stuff is theory is, you know, what if it's trying to draw conclusions from the little evidence that we do have, but obviously there's no concrete, solid evidence that aliens exist or really that they, there's no proof that they don't exist. So there's just a lot of theories right now. So we'll just talk about what we know. But it's your idea what for this film? Like, what were this idea?

Mark Christopher Lee: 0:48

Oh, yeah, I mean, the, the idea of the film was to talk about the possible issues that might come up, if we do get a first contact, as you quite rightly said, there's no hard evidence. And indeed, Seth Shostack, from SETI does say that in the film, the film is quite balanced in terms of we have all variety of opinions in it, including Seth, who thinks we haven't been visited yet by sentient aliens. But there is a possibility that we could be facing profound, a profound paradigm shift, if you know, the recent whistleblowers in the US garage, and people at the palace gave evidence, if what they're saying is proved true, and they provide hard evidence, then, how will this affect society? And how will it affect you know, religion and spirituality? Because we know a lot of people on Earth do have a god or gods, and it's helping them deal with the possibility that they might may not, you know, be alone in the universe. Right. So that's why I wanted to just create a debate start talking about this issue. So we can get philosophers, religious leaders, get them on board to start, you know, taking it seriously, because a lot of people are now taking it more serious than it's ever been taken before.

Chuck Shute: 2:12

Yeah, so you for your bias of your you seem to have more of an open mind. But you lean towards the positive, you think it's more likely that aliens do exist, and that, that we are going to come in contact with them soon? Or do you lean more like now this is all a hoax?

Mark Christopher Lee: 2:27

No, I think, more now than ever. I think there's too much. There's too many credible people, you know, coming forward with their own stories of seeing unexplained phenomena in the skies. Okay. which can't be explained at the moment. So there's definitely something there. However, I do put a caveat. Until you know, there's this hard evidence is it's hard to I have an open mind, like you say, but I'm willing to speculate that. Yeah, I think there is something visiting us whether it's extraterrestrial, or whether it's already here. That's another issue. But I think it's going to be profound, and have a massive impact on society, if that is revealed.

Chuck Shute: 3:18

Yeah, I mean, we'll talk about this later, because I want to talk more about the film. But I do want to bring up just the other parts of the third possibility that they're, you know, some of this stuff may be done by the government to try to manipulate people. That's a very real possibility. Again, we don't have any evidence of that. So I'm not saying that's happening. But I'm saying that as a possibility that the government is doing things we'll talk later about Project Blue Beam and things like that. Back to the film. So one of the things you bring up is could aliens be from another dimension? Explain the theories on that? Is there any evidence or is this all hypothetical?

Mark Christopher Lee: 3:56

It's mostly hypothetical. I first heard about this theory through an American you follow just John Keel, who we talked about in the film, he was around in the 50s 60s 70s. He proposed this ultra terrestrial theory where they're not extraterrestrials as such, but they come from a different dimension, maybe their electromagnetic energy a lot different from us as life but coexisting side by side with us and have been since you know, since the earth began. So they could be the, you know, the original inhabitants of earth and we could be a hybrid, that's one of the theories, but there is this like multi dimensional aspect that could be to it as well. Whereas this phenomena is the reason why it seems so ethereal and things go, you know, slipping in and out of reality, it could because the, you know, they're coming from it. overlapping dimensions and things like that. As I say, it's all speculative at the moment. But the way that quantum physics is going as well, it's, it's getting more and more strange reality. And you have to take into account that mind is playing a part in all of this as well. Kind of the mind shapes the reality is perceiving.

Chuck Shute: 5:21

Yeah, have you? Have you followed the CERN stuff at all? CE?

Mark Christopher Lee: 5:26

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And they're pushing the limits of what, you know, what physics where physics, physics is going. I mean, that, that to launch into, you know, different dimensions, which is amazing. And that will just change out our model of physics. And it's, it's constantly evolving. So I think in 10 years time, we'll have a different model of physics, which might be able to explain what's happening in terms of UFOs, alpha paranormal phenomena, which you'll see, yeah, well, I have

Chuck Shute: 5:56

a friend who's who's a Christian preacher, and he's told me that he believes aliens are fallen angels. And I think you kind of touch on that a little bit in the movie. When you talk about how different religions would respond to this. There were aliens or UFOs. And things. And it's interesting, too, because there's obviously some controversy with the Christian church and science, that you bring up the thing about Galileo. And you know, how they denied a lot of that those theories. And then I mean, even today, I feel like you see some people that are very strong fundamentalists who believe in the flat earth theory, because otherwise I don't, that's partly religious. But I mean, they're still they're bringing that back, which I never thought would that would make a comeback.

Mark Christopher Lee: 6:40

It's the one that conspiracy theory thing would never be here. But you're right. Yeah, that's a good point. I think we do take a look at the Old Testament and the Torah. And there's kind of things that point towards these fallen angels, maybe the Nephilim could be interpreted as extra terrestrial. I mean, you have to think angels by the very nature of our Extra Terrestrial, they're not of this, this world. So it depends how you interpreted it. But there is like you say, this growing movement in mostly in America with evangelical wing of Christianity, they do see possibly UFOs and aliens, as you know, as many as millions of Satan, not saying that's the truth, and that's a reality. But I think that's what's what could happen with certain sectors of religious groups, and there's always been this cult aspect as well to, to UFOs and flying saucers, in the bad cults, religious cults, saying you know that the Second Coming is coming, and it's going to happen on this day, it's going to be UFO and aliens are going to land. Obviously, it never does. But you know, maybe one day it will, it's going to be massive, but you know, going on to say more mainstream. So the Catholic Church is already preparing for, for this and has been for quite a while it's got its own Cardinal Monsignor Balducci, who's in charge of this, so, but I just wonder when? When do they start saying to their, their flock, okay, there's possibility that, you know, aliens might be coming soon. This is what we think this is how it fits into our religion. We believe this God, our God does this. But it raises the possibility of first contact and interacting with alien life just bring about massive, you know, changes in how we think and see ourselves in the universe and how it affects our place in it. And our gods or goddesses whatever, and spirituality? Will the aliens bring their own religions? And gods? Will they impose them on us at least some of the questions that we raised in the film?

Chuck Shute: 8:56

Yeah, I know. It's fascinating. You mentioned about the Catholic Church, and you say how the role of Vatican is unclear? Again, I'm not saying this is happening, but I'm saying this possibility. Do you think it's possible that the Vatican may already have some evidence of aliens or UFOs are some sort of extra terrestrial interdimensional beings? And they're hiding that? Because I mean, their track record has been that they've hidden some things from the general public before.

Mark Christopher Lee: 9:24

Yeah, I mean, there is the catch all of the Vatican Secret Vatican archive. So you can say everything from there from the Holy Grail to, you know, the, the Ark of the Covenant is in their secret archive. But there are, you know, there is a lot of secrecy around the Vatican and the Catholic Church. So wouldn't surprise me and I've spoken to an author, Rob Howells, who's written extensively on the Vatican, and he states that they are keeping a secret of Fatima. I don't know about the vision that Fatima had in Portugal. Those three children And petulant children who had a vision of a, what we now to see as a UFO in the sky in Portugal, but they interpreted it as the Virgin Mary. And this virgin Mary striped UFO, however you want to see it, gave them a message. And they wrote wrote them down. You know, some of them have been released, but apparently, one is still kept secret in the Vatican archive and this author Rob house has very credible person. He states that they're keeping it secret in the archive, and it relates to some sort of Apple apocalyptic message that will be coming soon. True. So that could be linked possibly to, to UFO isn't what's happening at the moment? Who knows?

Chuck Shute: 10:42

Yeah, or another possibility could be that they have evidence of aliens or UFOs. And it contradicts the religion and so they're hiding from the public, right? It's not a possibility as well,

Mark Christopher Lee: 10:53

it's a possibility as well. And Rob house, this author does also state that as well, and also the possible evidence, that different story, but you know, Jesus was married, had children, etc. That's kept secret as well, because of the same impact it would have on their on their teachings, obviously, you know, it makes a lot of difference. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 11:13

wait, so what it's called, I gotta check this out.

Mark Christopher Lee: 11:15

He's done. He's done quite a few. There's one of the best ones called Priory of cyan, s i o n. And it's extensively researched. And he's done another one called the last pope as well. which ties in this rope how old his name is. So yeah, please check it out.

Chuck Shute: 11:34

I will check that out. And then another interesting topic that you bring up in the film is aliens connecting to Article artificial intelligence, before they would connect to humans. Now that's really fascinating, because that's something that's really taken off in the last few years is artificial intelligence. And, and people are scared of this. I mean, even like Elon Musk, and before he died, I think Stephen Hawking said, We need to stop artificial intelligence that could ruin the world. And so the aliens could potentially somehow contact artificial intelligence or connect into that world.

Mark Christopher Lee: 12:09

Yeah, it was Professor Avi Loeb from Harvard University, suggests this in the film. And he made the valid point that when we go exploring and the outer reaches of the universe, we will probably send AI probes. So it makes sense that if we are being visited, it's probably going to be aliens sending AI to check us out, just because of the large distances involved. So that makes perfect sense. But yeah, he then explains the nightmare scenario of their AI, basically, interacting with AI and bypassing us completely. I mean, I'm not saying that's the case, it's just a theory put forward is quite a bit as a nightmarish scenario to it. But then there's the other side of it. And we're getting into the realms of science fiction and terminate your here, but you know, that you could think that some alien life form far reaches of the universe, the universe is 20 odd million 20 odd billion years old. Now. That could be so far advanced that it's moved beyond sentient life and into just AI life. So we could, the aliens that could be visiting, this could just be purely AI, which also is a little bit scary. But I would like to counter that is that I don't think we will ever be replaced by AI. We, as humans have soul, we have creativity, we have consciousness, which, you know, AI, I don't think we'll ever get, you know, just backstory. I'm a musician. That's my main job. And I write songs, and I get inspiration from somewhere. I feel sad one day, got the blues, I go out and write a song about it. You try it, you try and get an AI program to do the same sort of thing. It can copy it can pastiche it and steal it from somewhere else in brief rejigger it a little bit, but it's not going to have that initial inspiration that creates a verge which comes from being human.

Chuck Shute: 13:59

Yeah, but I mean, it's crazy what the music that AI can create. I don't know if you heard AI made a Nirvana song. I mean, obviously, Kurt Cobain passed away many years ago. Some of they took snippets of other songs. And they needed the song and it Yeah, pretty good. It sounds like it was like a It's kind of scary that musicians could potentially be replaced by AI. I mean, in a way, I don't know. It would be like if you heard some of those songs on the radio mixed in with regular.

Mark Christopher Lee: 14:29

Yeah, I mean, this a few Beatles things as well, which sound quite impressive. And I think that's, that's possibly the thing going forward. It's like nostalgia of essentially, you know, it might well turn them into holograms and put them in a stadium and sell it out. But is it going to come up with great new music genres? Inspiration isn't going to come up with a great new music? I don't think so. I think it's good at replicating what's been done before and recreating it in a different way. I don't think it's going to ever replace rock and roll, for instance. That's my opinion. And I've studied it quite a bit. I've done an album, I did an album recently, with my band, the pocket Gods we didn't want album in the studio, proper songs. And then we did the same songs, and the AI recreates it. And it's no comparison really. The, you know, the studio one was better, in my opinion.

Chuck Shute: 15:26

Well, that's good to hear. Yeah, hopefully podcasters can't get replaced, then neither, because that's worrisome. But yes, let's talk about another thing you bring up, which is really fascinating topic too, is simulation theory. Aliens be in charge of this world as in it's like a simulation I had on a psychologist, Dr. Donald Hoffman, and we talked to his extensive research on this and books or a book. And, you know, he really thinks that there's a simulation going on, it's very likely, again, it's not hard evidence that 100%. But he feels like it's very likely that we are in fact living in a simulation. So that begs the question, who's running the simulation? And you bring up the possibility that it might be alien. So talk about that.

Mark Christopher Lee: 16:09

Yeah, I mean, I don't pretend to be an expert on this. I just tried to raise this as you know, one of the theories that's around quite interesting, because you could tie in saying, aliens could be in charge of the simulation, but then depends how you interpret aliens. It could be God, the Creator, you know, it's the same sort of thing, really. But how would we ever know was like an episode of The Twilight Zone. We're not gonna, we're not gonna know we're in it. Or The Truman Show. Unless there's there's glitches, which you could say paranormal phenomena, maybe UFOs are sort of glitches in this simulation theory. I don't know. I mean, it's a fascinating concepts, slightly scary. But that's does that make life predetermined? is free. We don't have free will. It's someone else's freewill. The Creator, the aliens. I mean, is this all a reality show?

Chuck Shute: 17:04

Well, that would be interesting. Yeah, it could be a thing where like, when you die, you wake up and you take off the headset, and you're like, oh, okay, now I'm in the real world. Like, yeah, maybe, I guess. Yeah, maybe really, you live like, you know, hundreds of years. And this is just a short, this could be like, it could be 30 minutes in that world. But it's like, you know, yeah,

Mark Christopher Lee: 17:26

there's here. I mean, yeah. I mean, the strange thing happened to me, though, a few few months ago, was I made a previous film, it's three hours long on my band. Okay. So, editing at the time, I knew it, every second of the film, and basically went to bed had a dream, and I replayed the whole of my film in my dream, all three hours long. Okay. And I woke up at 10 minutes past. I mean, so how do you explain that? By no, you know, I lived every every moment of that film was three hours long. I only slept for 10 minutes. So something strange going on. And people who have psychic moments, synchronicities things that could be maybe preferred to simulation theory as well. That was like glitches in the matrix, I guess?

Chuck Shute: 18:11

Well, exactly. And then I mean, you're in a band. So you've probably done some drugs, like, have you ever had the psychedelic experiences? Have you ever done like mushrooms or acid or DMT? Because like people that have done that stuff? I mean, it's like a different level.

Mark Christopher Lee: 18:23

Yeah. I mean, it seems quite fascinating. I haven't done any of that. Do some mushrooms when I was at university. And that was that was quite interesting. But so yeah, and I've had lots of stories, lots of musicians that have taken it, and it's opened up other worlds. And I'm a big fan of Graham Hancock, Hancock, the archaeologist, and he's a big believer in it. And it's helped open his mind to explore different theories about reality and history and things like that. So especially DMT, I think, but yeah, I mean, that may help us connect, either with global consciousness. Minister, the other thing as well with consciousness, science still can't explain what it is or how it works. You know, they still think it's in the brain or some sort of process in the brain. Whereas more and more evidence now that it's not, it's actually out there. It's like a mental internet. And more and more serious scientists talking about this now. And it's like, you know, but I want to know is how do we tap into this mental internet so that we can all use it for good, really. And I think synchronicities, being aware of those that when they happen, is kind of tapping into that a little bit as well. Yeah, well, I

Chuck Shute: 19:34

think we just get glimpses of it. Like I said, I mean, drugs is just one way but also, hypnosis and meditation and tradition. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. There's all sorts of different things. And then again, if we'd like certain stuff, maybe they're going to be able to map it out and figure it out scientifically, which would be

Mark Christopher Lee: 19:51

absolutely yeah, it's an exciting time, really, because you've got what CERN is doing. You've got quantum physics. You've got consciousness. You've got all these different things going on with UFOs and possibly first contacts and disclosure. It's a great time to be around and try and work these things out. And that's what I've done this film for really is to create a debate and see what happens. Really?

Chuck Shute: 20:13

Yeah. So I mean, like with in here in America, I think that probably the number one religion is Christianity. So if like, let's, let's discuss that a little bit more if aliens do come show up, hey, we're here. Some people are gonna say again, like we said earlier, it's fallen angels in the apocalypse. But then there is another camp that might say, hey, aliens are God's creatures to like, it would be an interesting split, like, what do you think? Do you think it'd be kind of 5050? Or do you think? Or just like, we're not even with religion? Like how would most Americans or people in the UK or most humans, how are we going to react to aliens? Are we going to be scared?

Mark Christopher Lee: 20:51

Yeah, I think so. I do have a little bit kind of thinking, well, we've become maybe we've been conditioned to possible possibility of life out there through popular culture over the last 50 years. You know, and some people say that, even Steven Spielberg has been kind of prompted by, you know, CIA, to put certain UFO Alien references in his films so that when it comes to, you know, the big reveal, okay, well, yeah, we can handle that. So there's that side of it. But I think it comes to religion. I think you're right, there'll be two camps, there'll be the kind of the evangelical fundamental types who are quite believe in the literal word of the Bible, I think they'll find it very difficult. Whereas more kind of open minded, I'm not denigrating evangelicals, I'm just saying, but more kind of open, spiritually open minded Christians, which I call myself one, I think we're open to the possibility of God having created other life elsewhere, and being part of the same. You know, we are part, you know, part of God's world. And I don't see a problem with that. We do speak to a practicing priest Church of England, in the film, and he doesn't have a problem with it. He sees it as all part of God's creation. But, you know, it's what we think is what do the aliens think that the end of the day we can say how we feel, but if they come here, and you know, quite dogmatic and okay, there is no God, we've proved it, we're far more advanced than you are, or they're going to impose that on on us. And kind of reverse colonialism. You know, because we're in the past, especially the British Empire and the Spanish Empire and went out into the world and Christianized, South America, large parts of Africa would do the same here.

Chuck Shute: 22:53

Only and it brings up an interesting concept, because there's a lot of people I mean, there's a lot of debate about everything now in America, like everything is, I mean, we had the COVID vaccine, people were like, yes, you need to take it and other people said, No, you shouldn't. I mean, they just literally debate everything. So what if aliens came here? And they said, Look, we have proof that there is no God, or we are the gods or, you know, we have scientifically we'll show you the evidence of how the world was created. I feel like there's still going to be people that won't believe it.

Mark Christopher Lee: 23:21

What they'll say these evangelic Yeah, the evangelical especially will say it's a test of faith. That's a hollow answer it, you know, it's a test of our faith. We've got to get through this, you know, this is false prophets, whatever you want to call them. Fallen Angels, here to tempt us to take us away from God's path. But that's, that's possibly what will happen. I do think the Catholic Church especially, will be expedient because it wants to stay in power. So it will, it will find a way of encompassing alien life forms into his church. Go into it. That's interesting.

Chuck Shute: 24:00

And I also it's interesting, you bring up the movies in the films and stuff, because I feel like most of the films and TV things it's always aliens are the bad guys. It's I mean, yeah, there's like 80 And there's a few you know, it's they're happy fun aliens. But usually, it's like, we're shooting them with guns and lasers and machine guns and trying to kill the aliens because they're trying to kill us. Are these going to be nice aliens? Are they going to because a lot of the stories you hear too, like, Arthur on Ryan's braggy wrote a whole book of encounters and things and then a lot of them are not nice. A lot of them are very scary. And, you know, it's, again, these are all just encounters. I don't know if people are hallucinating or on drugs or whatever, when they see these things. But they're stories of people that say they've been abducted or had an encounter with an alien. It's and it's usually not pleasant from what I can tell.

Mark Christopher Lee: 24:48

No, but I think there is also an agenda from from the US government, military, or whoever is controlling this, to put that out really, but they're going to be a threat because they want to be able to control it. The narrative, the fact that, you know, they can rearm and spend money on, you know, weapons and things that they like doing that. So it's in their interests to to frame it like that. I mean, it's no evidence. I mean, to say that, I mean, apart from people's testimony of being abducted and things like that, which does vary, I have to say, some people claim to have encounters which are enlightening. There's no way of knowing and there's also people say, well, there's not just one race of aliens, there's lots. Some of them are not so nice, and some of them are here to help us. And there's a, there's a kind of battle going on. And that kind of we allude to that in the film a little bit in the ancient Indian, Hindu texts, which talk about these battles in the sky between various factions, and that could be interpreted as, as alien battles over Earth. So the same thing could be going on now. But then you've also got people like that we've had Dr. Steven Greer. He's the other extreme, he thinks they're all friendly and lovey dovey and here to help us and raise our consciousness. We can contact these aliens by just by using our minds, that consciousness. I like that, but I kind of want it to be nice and happy. And

Chuck Shute: 26:24

yeah, well, and then talk about some of the other religions besides Christianity, because obviously there's tons of religions Muslims believe in one God, so they, they would again think probably aliens are creations of Allah. But what about one of the some of the religions you don't mention in the film, which I was curious about was like Latter Day Saints? Because I know they have something about like, if you die, you go to a planet. So do they have beliefs on Aliens? And also, what about Scientology? Because I feel like that's another religion that it seems like that was made by.

Mark Christopher Lee: 26:58

I'm not an expert. But I think Scientology is a science fiction kind of religion, way more than Hubbard wasn't. It really is written lots of science fiction novels. And it's created this church. And yeah, it's a fascinating, fascinating subject. I don't I'm not an expert. So I can't comment on it. The Latter Day Saints is that the Mormon church?

Chuck Shute: 27:17

Right? Yeah, I was just trying to I think they prefer to be called Latter Day Saints. Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Christopher Lee: 27:22

But that was founded by Joseph can't remember. This, this myth, that was it. And he saw quite science fictiony as well, the way it started. He got he got a visitation and then got messages and drew them out. And so that could say that this beginnings of that religion were extra terrestrial in origin. I don't know, I can't comment on, on, you know, what happens to them after they die. But it does seem that the religions have their own kind of exclusive Heaven or afterlife where only true believers go. Whereas I'm more open minded. I think, you know, that. I think there is a God. And I think consciousness survives after death. But we all get to the same place. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindus, whatever.

Chuck Shute: 28:20

A Heaven or what would you what would you call that place?

Mark Christopher Lee: 28:23

Now? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good question. I too, I think it more in states of consciousness, enlightenment. And you kind of create your own hell by doing bad things. And, you know, you pay the consequences of that, in terms of where you go next. It's more of a real and not reincarnation, but more of a Hindu Buddhist kind of thing that I believe in, I think, as opposed to good people go to heaven, and only if your true believers go and line up and get in and then only evil people go to hell, and it's, I don't believe it's that rigid.

Chuck Shute: 29:09

Yeah, well, I guess we'll find out someday.

Mark Christopher Lee: 29:13

Yeah, we want to say,

Chuck Shute: 29:16

well, so going, I wanted to ask you about this. And I don't know if you know a lot about it, but like so recently, there's been definitely some Alien UFO News here in the United States. This guy, David grush, who was a United States Air Force officer former intelligence official was he was interviewed at the CIA a congressional hearings, and he says that he believes that the US federal government maintains a secret of UFO recovery program and is in possession of non human spacecraft, along with the dead pilots, and he's like a whistleblower, filed a complaint against the and then he said that they they retaliated over his complaint. And so this is just one guy. Saying this, I don't know he could be totally full of it. Or there's a lot of people that conspiracy theorists that say, Oh, the government is like is putting them up to this. This is all part of the SIOP. What is your take on that whole situation?

Mark Christopher Lee: 30:13

My take on it? I think I think he's genuine, I think he's got lots to lose by testifying under oath in the US Congress that is experienced these things. And he brought also brought with him two, very experience, former pilots, flavor and graves think the names, who also testified at the same hearing. And they both gave evidence as well under oath saying, you know, they engaged with these craft that, you know, doing maneuvers, which, you know, nothing human can do, basically. So, I think these are the most credible people we've ever had come forward and give their testimonies under oath. And they say, they know, I think gratia said, you knows where the craft are the bodies, etc. And he's going to provide the details in a, you know, off off the record on the on the record, but not in public view. So obviously, he's still got his security clearance and things like that. So I think he's very, very genuine. But I mean, even today, I've just seen in the news that's come out they've, they've leaked, someone from the DOD has leaked, gracious medical records to try and discredit him, saying that he's got mental health issues. But I mean, the guy served in Afghanistan, come back with PTSD, like a lot of soldiers and service people do. Understandably, they're trying to use that to discredit him, which I think a pretty low tactic, but just shows possibly how desperate it's getting. And everyone predicted that this would happen. Soon as he came forward, gave evidence under oath, that possibly, you know, the next bit would be trying to discredit him as a person. So it negates his evidence.

Chuck Shute: 32:00

Yeah, I mean, it's really fun. I mean, if once again, this is all speculative, because just it's his word versus the government's but he claims to have viewed documents that report that Mussolini's government recovered non human spacecraft in 1933, which the Vatican again, we go back to the Vatican, five eyes, assisted the US and puckering in 1944 1945. And he has knowledge that American citizens had been harmed and killed, killed as part of the government's effort to cover up the information. So do you know about this, and like I had to Google. I wasn't sure what Five Eyes is, I guess it's like some sort of government. It's like, five different countries, kind of

Mark Christopher Lee: 32:39

basically, trying to keep it all secret. I mean, as you say, this is all speculative. I've never heard about the Sicily crash and Mussolini until he said it. There's, there's not much evidence out there. There's a few documents on the internet. But how credible they are. I don't know. But usually people talk about the first CRASH CRASH being Roswell. But you know, he's going back even further saying was before the Second World War. So I don't know. Part of me thinks, yeah, maybe he's been fed information. And he's putting out this of because he had been told this. I don't know. I mean, it's the old fox molders things I kind of wanted to believe. But, you know, I don't know. I mean, will we ever get to the truth, I guess, if the US government is, is covering this up, in terms of this a secret military program, which was to be mentioned earlier, there was some technology they don't want anyone else to know about, then they're not going to come out and say that, you know, there's no UFOs it's, there's definitely

Chuck Shute: 33:48

something going on. Have you heard so there's two, I was Googling Project Blue Beam, which I'll get to in a minute. But as I was looking at that there was another one called Project Blue Book that I had never heard of, and I guess this was a thing where they collected all these UFO reports. And they collected 12 over 12,000 UFO reports. And most of them were classified as just, you know,

Mark Christopher Lee: 34:10

like, natural weather,

Chuck Shute: 34:12

or things like but they as they said, 701 reports were classified as unexplained, even after stringent analysis. So that leads me to believe that even the government doesn't know some some of this stuff. They can't explain it.

Mark Christopher Lee: 34:27

No, absolutely. And the thing is project Bluebook. Yes, later. I think it's Dr. Allen Hynek, who was in charge of it, later admitted that yeah, a lot of them. They just wanted to get rid of basically to stop people talking about them. So they use natural weather phenomena and things like that. Because there's some very credible cases that still can't be explained. Now. There's one by a policeman called Lonnie Zamora, who sort of a Santa Fe shape craft land. And he's very, very credible witness. He was a law enforcement officer. And you know, it's well tested. Marie has been under polygraph. He's telling the truth, but that was just, you know, that was one of the ones that was left unexplained. But a lot of the others were, like you say, natural phenomena. But there was a high percentage that were just written off as that because, you know, they that was their mission mission was to not is to disprove the UFO phenomenon, as you know, as made up, really. So why do you think

Chuck Shute: 35:26

that? Now they're kind of acknowledging, or somebody people, some people are saying that, that they may be real, like, do you think this is all like they're kind of prepping us to for the big reveal?

Mark Christopher Lee: 35:37

Yeah, I think so. And that's why they want to control the agenda in terms of making out as a threat. Because then they can control it, and people are scared as a favor while people let the military deal with it. You know, I say that. That's that's an issue. I mean, my issue is, being from the UK, this is not just a US phenomena. It's a worldwide phenomena. As far as I'm aware. In Peru at the moment in South America. There's a lot of sightings there a lot of credible sightings. There's lots in Russia. I know, the Russian military have been engaging with UFOs as a journalist, filmmaker called Jeremy Cobell. Him and George Knapp I've got documents from, from the Russians that state that they've been having the same experiences as the American pilots that have seen stuff. So I firmly believe there's something there in the skies. That's not explained. And I'm pretty sure that it's not technology. I can't say definitely whether it's extraterrestrial. But I don't think it's just miss identification. These are very high, highly trained pilots have seen everything in the sky, they would know if it was a balloon or a weather phenomena. So I think that's what's different this time. There's three people that come forward, like you said, David Koresh, and the two pilots grace and favor, very, very credible witnesses. And what we're seeing now is an attempt to discredit them, because maybe they want to slow down the process of revealing the big truth, because it's a bit out of control at the moment. That's what it seems to me.

Chuck Shute: 37:16

Yeah, one that I don't know if you saw this one. This was very recent, just a couple days ago, a Harvard researcher, Professor Avi Loeb, analyzing the composition of these molten droplets, this object is exposed to the fireball that it created as it moves into the air, they're getting some very interesting results, they cannot detail them until they put them together in a paper, a scientific paper that they hope to make publicly available to everyone within a month or so. And then when it was a bit was like, oh, maybe this was the typical meteorite. They said, they're exploring the possibility of propulsion. And so it's like, it sounds like they're leaning towards they have some sort of thing. Yeah. That's very, that's like a no,

Mark Christopher Lee: 37:56

I mean, yeah. Avi Loeb is actually in the film. And he talks about him going on this expedition to find this meteorite. It's in the shores of Papua New Guinea, I think it is. Because it came as an extra piece out of this solar system. It's come from a long, long way away, and it's tracked it and it fell in Papua New Guinea, in the oceans. And he's just been there recently to collect these spirals and testing them and is a good luck. Good shot that is going to be proof of alien technology, because what he was looking for signs of man of manufacture not just being a natural rock, which he possibly has found, which does kind of blow your mind a bit.

Chuck Shute: 38:40

Yeah, I'm fine. I'm it can't wait for the results of that paper. So yeah. And then last, I did want to talk about this project, Blue Beam, which is kind of controversial. From what I could see, I could not find actually, surprisingly, I can't find a lot about this. Some people say Oh, this is written from this is ripped off from a science fiction novel. And other people say it's fact and so we don't again, we don't know I don't want to claim that on a flag for false information. But this is just a conspiracy theory rumor call whatever you want. But there's a rumor technology that the government has the ability to project a 300 yard Buddha, Muhammad, or Jesus or UFO into the sky, and that they could basically stage the government could stage an alien attack or an alien invasion or they can make a giant Jesus and do all these things through a hologram basically, and and then they could, I guess, it's like a four step thing one they wanted, they would destroy religion, to use the holograms and the fake UFOs and claimed demonic possessions. And then they would do telepathic electronic two way communication and the the supernatural manifestations through electronics. So some of the technology I don't even know if it's there, but what is your take on that whole project?

Mark Christopher Lee: 39:53

Yeah, I have heard of it. I don't know too much about it, but I know it's been used somewhere. Can't remember where it was at somewhere in Scandinavia where they, there was a protection in the sky of a UFO. Pretend that to be a hologram, and people were saying that's related to Project Blue Beam. As you say, there's not a massive amount on it, but it wouldn't surprise me. And that could possibly answer some of the questions regarding some of the sightings. But then if it's a seat, top secret projects, that's going to be used by say, the US military, they're not going to reveal that they'd rather keep up the false the UFO narrative than reveal of we've got this great new weapon, this new technology which we can use to, you know, they're not gonna say it not for another 2030 years?

Chuck Shute: 40:39

Or eventually they would, I think they would use it and then use it to mean that's the theory. Again, this is all just a theory. We don't have facts, but it would be a one world government, one world currency and a one world control grid. So like the all the countries would get together, and they would maybe they would use different holograms of the different gods, or they would all be an alien, or whatever it was, and then could use that to control people because people would be very, I mean, that'd be very concerning if a giant alien or Jesus shows up. I mean, your giant

Mark Christopher Lee: 41:09

giant Bill Gates says people might.

Chuck Shute: 41:12

Yeah. If he was gonna pick what it was gonna be, I think it would probably be a giant him. Yeah, for sure.

Mark Christopher Lee: 41:22

Yeah, it seems a bit far fetched to me. But then again, it makes for a good film, I think. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 41:27

Or what about? Are you familiar with the zero point energy? Theory? How there's invisible energy waves and the quantum waves connect us all together? I think that's kind of like a global consciousness.

Mark Christopher Lee: 41:39

Yeah, like that. I mean, that could be good. But yeah, I still think there's my next thing, I'm working on a film called searching for the divine, which is trying to find the meaning of it all. Really? What is God? What is life? What is consciousness? What are UFOs? What are the paranormal? What is the paranormal, tying it in with quantum physics? So that's my next mission is on a quest. Got to have a quest in life, I think. So that's my quest, is to try and find a grand theory of, of all these things and tie it together, because I'm sure it's all related. But that might just come back to the simulation theory.

Chuck Shute: 42:20

Why wouldn't this is a time when I'm gonna I'm gonna give my dad's book A shout out. It's right behind me here. It's called Ultimate Reality. I would def up if you're looking for the answers of like, what is it all mean? Like, what is everything? Where do we where do we go? When we die? All that I would definitely check that book out. Definitely check that out. That's brilliant. It's got almost 500 resources in it. So it's all cited. I mean, it's theories, but it's theories of scientists, and everything gets cited in there. So it's not just a bunch of garbled junk. I mean, this is like my dad did all the research took him several years. So I would definitely check that out. People should also check out your music, the pocket Gods that's still active, right?

Mark Christopher Lee: 42:57

Yeah, we're actually working on an album at the moment called Songs for first contact. So we're gonna make this album. Firstly, got Jeremy Cobell involved. Oh, yeah. Because that guy is

Chuck Shute: 43:12

big in the unified Rogan a few times, I think. Right.

Mark Christopher Lee: 43:16

Yeah. And he was there at the hearings in Congress. He tried to get him

Chuck Shute: 43:19

on the show. I guess I doesn't return my calls, but

Mark Christopher Lee: 43:23

I can message him.

Chuck Shute: 43:24

Oh, thank you. That'd be amazing. Yeah, you should get on Rogen, too. I can with this new film. Have you tried to reach out to Rogen?

Mark Christopher Lee: 43:31

I don't know, actually, because I had a bit of a run in. But my band did an album of 1000 songs all 30 seconds long. To mono about what to highlight the rubbish royalties from Spotify, and other streaming services. Okay. So seconds long, because they pay out a royalty up to 30 seconds. So I put 1000 of them on. Okay,

Chuck Shute: 43:53

I heard about that. That was the first guys to do that. Because that was you.

Mark Christopher Lee: 43:58

That's the so we did that. Which is good, fun, really, really hard to do. But it was at the time that Spotify acquired Joe Rogan podcast. So I made the point that Spotify should be paying money to musicians that help make Spotify. The great thing is that I wasn't knocking Joe Rogan because when he got a lot of publicity, they were saying, oh, you know, what do you think about Jeremy I said, it's fine because people musicians were trying to ban him at the time because he was having so called anti vaxxers on his show. And I'm all for free speech. So I didn't want to ban the show. So Thanks, Joe. Wherever you are.

Chuck Shute: 44:38

Well yeah, let's so let's get you on Rogan let's get for Bill on my show. It'll be a win for everybody. Okay, that sounds good. All right. And then I always end promoting a charity or nonprofit is or a charity that you want to promote here at the end. If people have some money left over after they buy all the pocket God albums.

Mark Christopher Lee: 44:55

Yeah, that'd be brilliant. Yeah. This is a charity I support locally. I live in St. Albans. In Hartfordshire, in England, and it's called St. Albans action for homeless because of a low we we live in a town not far from London, there's a big homeless problem properties are very, very expensive. And we shouldn't have anyone homeless in today's age. So I like to support a local homeless charity St. Albans action for homeless.

Chuck Shute: 45:21

Okay, I'll put that in the show notes along with I think you have a website for pocket gods or your own

Mark Christopher Lee: 45:26

website. Okay, it's the pocket gods.com

Chuck Shute: 45:29

And then where can people find this film? Because is it out yet? Or is it not because I got the screener copy. So

Mark Christopher Lee: 45:35

yeah, it's, it's catenis. UK broadcast on on Sky TV, I was at TV, but you'll be able to find it online on most streaming platforms, starting with Amazon Prime the next week.

Chuck Shute: 45:49

Okay, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Mark, and good luck.

Mark Christopher Lee: 45:53

Brilliant. Okay, thank you.

Chuck Shute: 45:56

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