Harry Turner (Wildcat documentary)

Harry Turner is a British Army veteran and advocate for wildlife conservation, mental health and veterans. He is also the star of the Wildcat documentary on Amazon Prime.  It’s a fascinating film about how his travel to the Amazon saved his life. He has since started a non-profit called Emerald Arch which strives to help veterans with PTSD. We discuss all the above in depth, including many things not shown in the film. A very powerful episode.

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:45 - Background & Education
0:04:04 - Military Experience & PTSD
0:22:22 - The Amazon, Suicidal & Epiphany
0:33:55 - Returning to the Jungle to Escape
0:37:05 -Worst  Dangers of the Jungle
0:43:37 - Illegal Logging & Killing Animals
0:49:45 - Training the Ocelots
0:58:35 - Khan's Caught in a Trap
1:06:10 - Keanu Inspiring Hope & Possible Mating
1:10:00 - Being Alone in the Jungle
1:10:50 - Film Editing & Working Together
1:15:27 - Non-Profit "Emerald Arch"
1:19:20 - Inspiring Others & Small Goals
1:24:50 - Snakes & Respect
1:26:50 - Outro

Wildcat Film website:
https://wildcatdocumentary.com/

Emerald Arch website:
https://www.emeraldarch.org/

Chuck Shute website:
https://www.chuckshute.com/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

Well, this is probably the most powerful episode I've ever done. Harry Turner is my guest today. And he is the star of the documentary wildcat, which is free on Amazon Prime. It's Harry's story, and it's very inspiring. He was in the British Army, and then he got PTSD. And he went to the Amazon rainforest, and he drops his baby Ocelot. And if you haven't seen the film, go ahead and pause this episode and go watch the movie. And then come on back, because there's going to be spoilers, we're going to discuss the film and also a lot of things that weren't covered in the film that I was curious about myself. So all this and more coming right up.

Harry Turner: 0:45

Yeah, no, it's definitely a eye opening documentary. It also kind of like touches on some stuff, which, you know, when I was filming, I didn't necessarily kind of like, say to myself, I'm gonna make a film about mental health. So I was just filming because I was, I was filming, you know, I just was capturing moments that I wanted to remember and potentially show my children and my grandchildren. And we're just thinking in their moments, like, oh, this would be really cool to just be able to look back on. I never really kind of thought that after kind of, like, getting all of the footage and, you know, going through all of them moments and memories, that it would kind of like, I'd be able to make something that was like, so powerful, moving. And, you know, it's, it's affected a lot of people which you know, is and, you know, was the main purpose of this, I wanted a lot of people to remember, Khan and to know, Keanu. And so, you know, I'm glad that it has had that effect on and most people.

Chuck Shute: 1:53

Yeah, it's really, like you said, I think you call him a very vulnerable film, because really put yourself out there. So explain your background, cuz that's kind of part that they kind of don't talk about in the film. But I've heard you say in interviews that you kind of pretty much had a normal upbringing. But you did kind of get depressed as a teenager, I think was your grandma Joyce that had died. That's, is that kind of when depression first entered your life?

Harry Turner: 2:16

Yeah, I think growing up, I didn't really fit into the norm of society, I was always wanting to be in the forest, I was always wanting to be catching animals. I hated education. I think that the education system is so old that it doesn't really kind of like, work with the majority of people. I struggled to read. I hated doing homework, like when I'd finished with school, that was it, I just didn't want to do anything. I wanted to either skateboard or go out on my friends or, you know, do what, you know, most crazy kids do. And I just, I always felt a little bit like, I was not normal. I always felt like these kids were doing their homework and getting like good grades, and they would, you know, just, I don't know, getting from A to B with no hiccups. And I was always getting from A to D, with BNC in the middle with constant hiccups. And it was just kind of like, I don't know that that was always kind of, like annoying for me. Then when my grandma passed away, I definitely that was like my first ever loss of, of someone. You know, when I was younger, I lost my uncle Bob was too young to even like comprehend it. And then when it came down to kind of like losing my grandma, I was just like, this is hard. I don't know how I'm gonna deal with this. You know, it's it's very hard. Yeah, so then, yeah, then Afghanistan just pushed me over the top. Yeah. So

Chuck Shute: 4:02

why did you choose to go into the military? Why not go into the I don't know what they have over there. But like here, they have the Peace Corps, which is like something where you would go, you know, they have other options for things where if you don't want to go to college, which it sounds like you obviously didn't, it was there other options that you thought of before you decided on the army.

Harry Turner: 4:21

Um, I was thinking about what I was going to do at the time I was working in a kitchen I was kind of like, cooking a little bit clean and a little bit just, I'm just trying to make some money so that I could go and skateboard and then I kind of realized that this isn't what I'm going to be able to do for the rest of my life. Like I I grew up in a military background. My dad was in the Navy for 12 years. My granddad was a firefighter, my great uncle's were in the army. And, and I think what it came down to is, I was like, sat on my bed and and my family would like kind of talk him My dad came in and talked to me and he was like, right, you're going to be 18 Soon, what are you going to do with your life? You know, it's kind of like a very, like, it wasn't a bad upbringing whatsoever. But it was very strict and disciplined. It was like, Well, as soon as you turn 18, you're paying rent, or you're getting your own place. You know, that's, that's kind of how it goes in his house. And, you know, I kind of respect that in a way. But at the same time, I just felt very pressured into figuring out my life. And, you know, I still haven't really figured out my life and, you know, 13 next month, but I, my dad said, How about you join the Navy? And I was like, Nah, like, I'm not joining the Navy. Like, I'm not doing it. I made some, some jokes about him being on a submarine with too many men. And, and he was just kind of like, no, yeah, okay, whatever. Like, it's just an idea. And then I spoke to my mom, and my mom was like, Well, you don't have to join the Navy. Join the army if you wanted to. And, honestly, I didn't really expect my mum to be the one that was kind of advocating for me to kind of like, leave, you know, potentially to go to war and do all these things. At this moment in time. I was 17. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. It was just kind of like one of them things. And yeah, it was just my mom was like, why don't you join another part of the military? And I was just like, Okay, I thought about the army. I thought about doing different bits and pieces. And yeah, I think two days later, we went to the recruitment center, and I signed up for the army. And that was, and that was that.

Chuck Shute: 6:41

Yeah. And then I mean, obviously, you saw some crazy shit. You saw kids dying and stuff. But it was interesting. You had an interesting perspective on that, that it changed your life like and I don't know if it was the kids or just being in the military, but you felt like they you had taken things for granted after seeing that, like you needed to be more appreciative of your life. But did you also feel like the world was kind of a darker place after seeing that?

Harry Turner: 7:04

Yeah. So I joined the military. Two days after my 18th birthday. I then did six months worth of training in ITC Catterick, which is in like the kind of northern part of the UK, freezing cold and boring, miserable place, you know, up at five o'clock every morning, if not earlier, going to bed that late to three in the morning, because I'm having to clean do my equipment. By then do my pastor now, parade, I then go to my battalion for two weeks. And then I get sent off to Afghanistan as a battle casualty replacement. So I basically went there to replace someone that had either been injured or killed. I get there and I'm like, you know, doing some extra training when I'm there. I'm 18 years old, I look like I'm 12 it's not a very kind of, like, good place for me to be in. But at the same time, this is what I wanted, you know, I didn't want to go through all this training to then not be able to like do something with it. I then got sent to a fort operating base called shortcut, which was a really cool spot, yours beautiful it had like these. Even though they were kind of like horrible at the same time, these kinds of strings which kind of like smell a little bit funky. But they had all these strings everywhere and these kind of like clay buildings and in the Forward Operating Base, there was like these kind of like caves which had bats and everything in them. And you know, it was it was a really cool spot. But within my first five days, I saw a guy I knew get shot in the head. And I basically held his hand while he died. And I think that moment then was the moment when I realized that this isn't a game. This is this is a serious. i He was like talking to me and some you know, he was an Afghani. He was one of the interpreters and he Yeah, just died right there. And I just remember seeing blood and hearing him talking and you know, was gibberish you know, even if I could understand what he was saying. It probably was nonsense because he had a bullet in his head. Yeah, that changed me. I definitely realized that that moment then that that was this was not fun. I then realize you know, as the weeks went on that I was kind of just like a target. By I was like the newest one there. I was carrying the biggest you know equipment. I remember being like called out on the radio Someone was saying the guy in the middle the guy with the brown ECM. And I just was walking and the guy that was translating, was like, Oh, they're talking about the guy with the brown ECM. And that was me. I'm in the middle, you know, and they're like, pointing their weapons at me. And at that time, I was like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna see my family ever again. Like, this is scary. I don't know where they are, I can't see them, but they can see me and I'm in the middle of a fucking field that is flat, and I've got nowhere to escape. And at this moment, right now, I'm petrified. And, yeah, it was definitely made me grow up a little bit. It's definitely tough. It made me it made me think about all the things that I had done in my life, and that I want it to do in my life. And it just made me realize that half the people I've known growing up, have zero idea of what fear is, or zero idea of, of what life really means.

Chuck Shute: 11:10

And what did you feel like life really meant at that point?

Harry Turner: 11:15

Um, good question. At that point, when I was kind of like feeling fear and death, I remembered about the people that loved me. And that was about it, really, I was thinking about just loved ones and people who cared about me. And I think that's about as much as I could really think about in that moment, when I was kind of like, bored. And you know, on stag, which is basically where you go up, and you just wait for a few hours to make sure that the the walls are safe, and you have to keep a lookout. I think that up there, I just was like, taking everything in my life previous to war for granted. I was thinking about food on the tables, and I was thinking about drinking alcoholic beverages, I was thinking about hanging out with friends, I was thinking about girls, I was, you know, all of these things. And so what it really came down to is that when I was bored, I was thinking about all these things that my friends were doing whilst I was at war. And when I was in these moments of kind of like fear and like not knowing if I was going to make it through the next day, that was thinking about all my loved ones and all the things I really should have been caring about more when I was kind of smoking weed and skateboarding back in the UK. Hmm.

Chuck Shute: 12:43

Wow, that's interesting, because so then you get discharged from the military for recurrent depression, which I don't even know if I've heard that term. And I was in counseling. And they said, but you said that they should have given it or a specialist said it should have been given to PTSD, but they didn't give you that diagnosis, because they would have to pay you disability or something. Is that what happened?

Harry Turner: 13:04

Yes. So the British Army if you get discharged for PTSD after war, they have to help you with certain situations, they help you financially, they help you find work, they help you do all these different things, by basically got discharged with recurrent depression. And they gave me about 9000 pounds and sent me on my way. That was it was kind of like a it was kind of like one of those things where it was like, I just wanted to get out at that point. So I didn't really care. I just took money, but I was just kind of like damn, like, they really just mess me about honestly, like, I've been like working hard on trying to go to the all my appointments and doing all these different things while struggling quite severely, and they just didn't really give a crap. And a lot of people kind of like, asked me questions, or oh, how was it kind of getting out of the military? And what was I you know, my experience wasn't great. I know that they're dealing with lots of people I know they're dealing with lots of different situations. People who have lost limbs people have you know, lost loved ones, all these different things and on a scale of severity mine was definitely not as high as you know, mine was definitely not a priority. And you know, some 1920 year old kid that struggling with PTSD, they just like Yeah, he'll he'll be alright and they kind of like push me to the side. So definitely was a hard entrance to Seville like to become a civilian. I came out of the military and and I had you know a little bit of money but I wasn't you know, it's 9000 pound doesn't really get you far after you've not really worked for a long time, and you need to find a job And, yeah, I just, I got some crappy jobs working in factories, I saved up some money. I went to the jungle for the first time. And, and then was kind of really when my life changed. For the best, I think.

Chuck Shute: 15:20

Yeah, explain what, like PTSD, because when you talk about, oh, I just want to be back with my family and you know, I wasted time. So then you're out and then you can go back with your family. But it's not that easy, because now you're changed right from the explain what the, to my audience for PTSD means to you.

Harry Turner: 15:39

PTSD is different in every situation, every person, but for me, PTSD was the constant fight or flight situation. I was, you know, 18 turned 19 and a warzone, I came back to the UK with the British Army and stayed for another year or so basically, going to a job, which was treating me like a child and missing me about a lot. Then when I get out, I'm thinking, Okay, I don't know what I'm going to do for work. So I'm like thinking about all these situations. And to be honest, a lot of the situations that I put myself in with mentally thinking, I've got to go to work, they would always end with how I can get out of this situation. My flight reaction was suicide. I, I was thinking it would probably just be easier if I died, I don't want to live this life no more a, I'm tired of this bullshit. I am not really respected by anybody apart from the people who kind of birthed me and raised me. And I just felt like I had done something for my country, which, you know, to be honest, like I was, I was kind of in a, in a headspace of like, I'm going to do this for my country, like, I'm going to be proud to do this. But my country didn't care about me when I was like, Oh, my knees begging. And I've seen that all across the world. I've seen that in Afghanistan as well, I've seen that in the UK, I've seen that in the US. Everybody wants you to be part of the military. But when you leave the military, with issues, no one really cares about you. And that's just kind of like, that's just kind of like how it goes, you know, like you see homeless veterans on the street. And it's like, why you are a veteran? And why you homeless? And why haven't you got the support that you should, you know, deserve? And a lot of the times, it's just because no one really cares by that. That's, that's it. It's a sad kind of story that a lot of people go through. Yeah, it's, it's that and you can't really sugarcoat it. And I think that's why a lot of veterans commit suicide is because they just to a point of like no return. In the US alone, 22 veterans a day commit suicide. And it's because they just can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. And even though I wasn't in the US military, I live in the US now. And I can see these people going through it. And I am friends with some great people. One of them is called Karen craft, and she runs a veterans for media and entertainment and she works with, you know, veterans and getting them into making documentaries and films and and I've met a lot of people through her and I've heard some very, very similar stories of struggle and going through it and having really nobody to support them. And so yeah, it's for me PTSD, is is the thought of suicide as an escape. It's the thought of seeing red whenever I hear bangs, fireworks, watching films and basically getting like an old cinema roll of thoughts coming through my head of flickering terror and nightmares having no appetite or having mood swings. You know, I've broken my fingers and knuckles and and bones in my hands from just losing my mind so quickly that I just see red and punch through a door or punch for a wall and and then you know, if you asked me four weeks later, what was you angry about? I can tell you because it's just a surge. It's a rage, it's like a an atomic bomb goes off and you get hit with this thing and then later on, it's just peace. It's it's a horrible kind of like feeling.

Chuck Shute: 20:13

Yeah, is it? Are you still dealing with the PTSD? Or is it gotten a little bit better now, since everything you've been through,

Harry Turner: 20:20

I've managed to deal with my PTSD. I found coping mechanisms. I have a wonderful wife that allows me to kind of feel the way I feel and give me space and allow me to talk about situations instead of punching through walls and doors. I have two amazing dogs and I feel like dogs definitely helped me a lot. I as you can see in the documentary, like wildlife and animals and wild places helped me I still struggle like it's, it's it's not one of them things you know, I've done iOS GRE, I've done mushrooms, I've tried meditating, I've done all these different things to try and really help me but I'm a stubborn person, and you really need to break through yourself before you can really figure yourself out. Ayahuasca was a great experience and made me feel the happiest I felt for you know, probably three weeks after I did it. But then after that plateau kind of ended. I went kind of back to suicidal ideation, I went back to kind of like negative and you know, bad thinking. I went bad I went back to kind of like yeah, just kind of putting myself in situations which caused panic attacks and and I was also in the jungle so I had no one to really talk to as well which is, which is one of the things I did Ayahuasca with a group of people and then I was doing the Kyani project and and so I would just be out with Keanu just in my own head. You know, when you're with a cat that doesn't speak English to you. You're kind of like fearing for his life all the time because the jungle is a dangerous place. And then you're also struggling with your own issues. It's it can be overwhelming, that's for sure.

Chuck Shute: 22:19

Yeah, well, I don't think this I don't know if this was discussed in the film. But initially you went to the jungle the plan was to kill yourself in the jungle like you went you bought a one way ticket. You weren't planning to come back. But explain why did you pick the Amazon jungle? Like you just googled Amazon work in the Amazon or volunteer work in the Amazon did? Did you think of like going to Alaska or Australia or Thailand or Africa or why the Amazon?

Harry Turner: 22:45

I'm growing up, I had a fascination for snakes. I still, you know, I love snakes. Probably more than cats, actually. But you know, I just love them to pieces. They're one of my favorite animals. But I, at the time, I had an eight year old brother. I was thinking and contemplating suicide. I wanted to make my death look like an accident. Even though I was like in a very bad headspace, I was still very conscious of how my death would affect people around me. And with my brother being eight years old. I don't want him to find his brother dead in the house that he's growing up in. I didn't want him to you know, I couldn't really put my finger on why I was trying to be responsible for the feelings of other people around me when when I couldn't really feel anything in myself, but I just was like, What's the most, you know, looked at and frowned upon place of danger. You know, and the Amazon is very dangerous. You have illegal logging, you have illegal mining, you have hunting, you have venomous snakes, you have tree falls, you have you know, all these things. So I went there with the thought of, okay, every day, when I woke up, I'm going to commit suicide today. I don't know how I'm going to do it. I don't know where I'm going to do it. I don't know what's going to happen. This is just how it's gonna happen. Like, I don't want to go home. And the first few days, I was I was just meeting these new people which were in the jungle, I was going out with my herpetologist, which is a specialist in reptiles and amphibians. Brian and I was going out with him and I was finding all of these absolutely just incredible things, like huge tarantulas and, you know, spider webs which were stronger than, you know, half the people I went to school with and you like insects, which are as big as my hand and snakes and frogs, and I saw my first Ocelot on my first trip. And I remember like seeing these eyes in this tree, like running up this tree and seeing the whole side of it in the pattern and the tail. And then then it turns around, and it runs down to the ground. And I'm on the kind of like a fork of a trail. So I go back on the fork, and I walk on the other trail, and it's in the tree again. And I was thinking, like, this is just so wild. This is just, I haven't used my phone in days. I don't know what my family are up to. I'm not on the internet, scrolling, you know, aimlessly. I'm just like, in orange, just everything around me. And I wasn't thinking about war. And I wasn't thinking about, you know, what I was going to do for work when I get home. I was in the moment when I was there. And I was just like, I would like I would wake up and I would be in this wild place. And I would go asleep and our dream about this wild place. I remember waking up. And this dream was so real, that I woke up and I was in my you know, single person bed with my mosquito net. And I'm looking for the snakes in my bed. And I'm like looking and I'm lifting up my pillows and I'm like, half asleep and half not the noises are crazy. And the guy or sharing the room with his name's Tom. He's like, how are you? Okay? And I'm like, yeah, man, I just got this snake in my bed. And he's like, Harry, I think you're dreaming like, we we just got asleep like you must have like, just been in like a dreaming state. And like, no, do this sneaks in my bed. And I'm like lifting up all my bedding. And I like click and I'm like, wait, and I'm like, there's nothing in my bed. I'm just dreaming. And I've got asleep and there's just bright colors and dreams of like animals and like, oh man, it was just like one of the craziest experiences of my life. I would never in my life did I wake up so many times? Because I'm like, unsure that I was asleep. Interesting. Yes. So crazy. My change of diet, my change of like environment, the heat, the sounds, there's no you don't hear that, you know, phone going off. The only on usual sound that you would hear which is manmade is a generator because we needed to power light so that we could see at night and we needed to, you know, keep the fridge going because I was at a place which had all these different things. And about day 14 I was just like, No, no, I'm gonna kill myself. Like, you know, talking myself up. I'm gonna do it. We go fishing and we catch dinner and catch a few Parana and we go back and and as I'm going back, the sun's going down and the bats are like changing with the birds and the humidity is kind of cold and I'm feeling this kind of like breeze on me. And I'm just like, What the hell are you thinking? Like, you have an eight year old brother. You have a mom, a dad, a sister. You have an uncle and auntie a cousin a grandma or granddad? You have a dog you have friends you know I had Connor bush and I had Jack Jenner I had all these friends you know that I went to school with I was like why do you want to kill yourself? Like why? Don't know why the epiphany happened like that. I guess that's how it happens. I've never had one I don't know if you've ever had one but hit me like a fucking train. And I was just like, oh my god, like so stupid. And then as soon as I got back, I ate that Parana and I ate that rice and that you can and I went out on a night walk and everything was colorful by even though before that everything was beautiful and it was like really nice and Dude, it was like I don't know if you've ever done like mushrooms and you've seen like the Color Waves and you've seen like the and you felt that kind of like vibe of like energy. Data felt like I just done mushrooms this is all this natural is all natural. This is all just happened.

Chuck Shute: 29:45

Didn't you say to like the dangers of something happening to you? What gave you this adrenaline that made you feel alive being there?

Harry Turner: 29:54

Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm seeing for example, there's a there's a snake could have both drops out. Atrox and it's locally known as the fertile Lance. It's the cause of the most bites and venomous bites of any snake in the whole of South America, you have the boat props, ATTREX and you have the bow props ASPA. And between Mexico and you know, all of South America, that snake is the cause of the most venomous bites. And, you know, depending on age dependent on health, it usually kills quite a few people. I saw one, which was like five and a half to six foot, and it was just laid out flat on this like fallen tree. And I remember getting so close to it, that the herpetologist I was with was like, You're gonna have to back up in a second because you're getting a little bit too close. And I was like, yeah, yeah. And I remember just like, looking at this snake and just thinking you could kill me right now. Like, this is perfect. You know, this, this, this would be the ideal situation. Sorry, Mom got tagged by a venomous snake and a die. Like, you know, my hero, Steve Oh, in in the best place ever doing the things that I love. And I remember like being like, this can kill me. But dude, I've got so much adrenaline in me now. And yeah, it was. Oh, man, it was crazy. You know, it was absolutely like, spectacular. And then after that epiphany on the boat, I just remember everything just being crazy. And I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to go home. But

Chuck Shute: 31:31

you also didn't want to die anymore. Right? You actually wanted to live.

Harry Turner: 31:36

I yeah, that moment. It was it was kind of one of the things I wasn't sure on how I was feeling. I just knew that being alive, felt good. But I also kept thinking that, Oh, you came here to do a certain job, you're going to go through with that. You know, if you go home and you got to go work in another factory, you're going to want to kill yourself again. Like you may as well do it while you're happy. You know, they'll do it here. But I was thinking like, wow, like this feels really like good. No. Big. I went home. I was happy for a while I was happy for about two months. I I went back what May June time I think I went back the beginning of June. And June in the UK is just wonderful. It's like it's hot. It's sunny. It's you know, people are out having beers drinking, going to the beach, having fun. And just, it was the perfect time to go home. And then as soon as September came, it was like, you know, because you know, June July, August is kind of a nice month he did a few months, you get some rain, you get you know, whatever. But it's it's pretty soon as September October, November came dude, I just wanted to kill myself again. And I yeah, I was thinking about killing myself big time. I was like nothing can ever, you know, it made me realize what heroin addicts go through. I was on such a high and then nothing could compare to it. I was in the jungle and I couldn't get that adrenaline in the UK that I could in Peru. I was just one in that next fix of jungle. And it made me realize like I understand now why there are addicts because this is horrible feeling. Even though I'm not scratching my skin off even though I'm not. You know, hating on my family members and stand robbing from old ladies and doing all these things I was I was like, I need to go back. Like, if I'm not gonna go back. I'm just gonna kill myself. I don't I don't see any other options, really.

Chuck Shute: 33:49

So you wouldn't say? Yeah, so the next time you go back, it's not to kill yourself. You're just going back to enjoy life and be happier.

Harry Turner: 33:57

I just went back to escape is escape this, you know, I sold everything. I sold my car, I saw my shoes. I saw my television, I sold absolutely everything I had, you know. And I went to the jungle. I didn't know how long I was going to stay there for at that time. So this was 2015. At that time, you didn't need a return ticket to get out of Peru. You could just get a one way ticket and you'd have you'd have to leave six months later, but you didn't need that kind of like ticket that was like oh, you're gonna leave on you know, August 12. So I just booked a flight and just went and on my visa I had six months at the time now when you go to South America, your visas are only for three months needed return flight and it's a whole mess. Back then it was so much more freedom. And I remember going for my six months and I was just like this is it. You know, I went and lived in this horrible place. There was like, I was in the jungle, but it was like knee deep mud. mosquitoes everywhere. Dang gay everywhere. Like the people were coming in were like kind of tourists as well that I was like working with and they were like, This is horrible. And I'm like, yeah, like we're showering. And then we're going back. And we're just getting mud everywhere. And it's like 105 degrees with 100% humidity. And it's just chaos. But I loved it. I saw my first coral snakes, I saw my first Jag, I saw my first tape here, I was catching all sorts of crazy frogs that I had never caught previous because I was only there in a certain month in 2014. And we've amphibians are very delicate to rain, they're very delicate to humidity. So there's certain times of the year you get different types of animals coming out. And amphibians are very, very particular with like their environment. That's one reason why deforestation is so horrible is because amphibians are so particular with environment. And with temperature. And with humidity. If you cut down a piece of forests, they can't just move, like Jags will move, they can't just move like a snake will move. They need this location. And if you're clear cut in, you know, a football pitch every single second. That frog there that could potentially survive the destruction now has nowhere to go and so will die. And so it's one of these things where animals are so you know, it's not as if we can just go, oh, you know, so and so just gonna rip down my house. I'm just gonna go and move to Canada. We can change we can put on clothes, we can take off clothes, we can cook different foods, we have resources. The animals are dependent on this one by one square meter that they call home. And if you take them away from that, forget it. Well, now the dead are extinct.

Chuck Shute: 37:01

That's crazy. I mean, there's so many fascinating animals, obviously the ocelots the one that you had a lot of contact with. But what about the you talked about the state of the snakes? What about the green anaconda? Did you because supposedly that's the most dangerous? And although they say there's no evidence that they've eaten people their stories Did you hear reports and stories of the green anacondas eating people down there?

Harry Turner: 37:25

Eating people, yes, you hear about them eating people's pets like dogs. You hear about them, attacking kids. A lot of this is kind of just you know, I've seen anacondas eat dogs, so I know that it happens, you know, a dog looking like a wild pig is definitely appetizing for a snake, which has been sat there for weeks, you know, just waiting in ambush for an animal's come down. I know that people have been attacked and you know, bitten and you know, curled up on by anacondas. But you know, when it comes to danger, the Anaconda is is only dangerous really, if you are antagonizing it, and if you get bit by it, it's it's non venomous. It's a constrictor as part of the bowler family. So if you get hit by it, all you're gonna have to do is depending on the size of is probably get a few stitches. And that's about it. You know, they're they're really not that dangerous. They're an incredible snake. I've seen, you know, hundreds of them now, the biggest one I saw was probably about four and a half meters. And so you know, it's a thick animal. It's a big animal. It's a slow moving animal. It's only defense is you know, it's by I've seen a lot of dangerous animals. But the most dangerous animal I've ever seen was humans. I can't tell you how many encounters I've had with, with wild animals, where I felt completely safe. And I've just read the situation and I've stepped back or I've given them space, or I've realized, oh shit, I'm in between you and your baby, or I mean between you and your food. You remove yourself from that situation by reading the environment. There is no threat. I've been close to stepping on venomous snakes, but yet they didn't strike at me because I didn't step on them or near them. Because I read the situation. I've had random people pull guns on me. I've had random people threaten to kill me with machetes. I've had random people threaten to steal my boat and leave me there. Once again, humans cause causing all the problems in the world. You know, even though we think that we're superior, even though we think we have evolved, greater and more intelligent and In a special breed of people, were the worst things that ever happened to this planet. And, you know, it's, it's a shame, because we're so clever that we could make this, you know, planet healthy again, we could do things to really improve the state of the wild places and the wildlife, which in turn, make us happier and in turn, make us healthier. So, you know, really, really confuses me why we want to destroy so much of this planet. But at the end of the day, like, I went to Afghanistan, I have been through some traumatic experiences, and it happened for a reason. In their moments, I didn't understand why they happened, but they happened and they put me on the path that I needed to be on. Now, I'm not a religious person, I'm actually kind of spiritual these days. But I believe that that is the way of life. And I believe that we're just going to destroy ourselves until our planet becomes healthier again, and we're probably going to kill ourselves off. I was really hoping that the pandemic would do something a bit more serious to really help our situation of, of our world, really, like kind of make people think like, twice about, you know, our lives and what we're affecting, and what we're doing and how we're doing it and how we're affecting it. But yeah, it didn't it was kind of an interesting thing, really, I spent a lot of the pandemic in the rainforest of Ecuador, and couldn't have asked for a better place to really stay, you know, even though I had no food and, and, and anything like that. There was no tourism, there was no people, the amount of wildlife that I saw was phenomenal. I Dude, it was like, I would go out on a walk. And I would see five different species of monkey, I would see pigs, I would see snakes, frogs, you name it, giant river otters. And it would all be because I was silent, and there was no surrounding noise. And the tourism in this area that I was in had completely stopped because of COVID. And so all of these animals, which were then kind of like understanding that these people were somewhat safe, but they kept their distance still. They were they were like these people aren't have been and just came into this whole situation. I was I was filming for the documentary still, I was trying to get some kind of like B roll of like the sun going through the trees and, and I don't know if you know, but I filmed about 75% of Wildcat. And I was getting all these types of B roll. And yeah, this Ocelot just walk straight past me. There's my big male Ocelot. I you know, I was in Ecuador. I've never worked with this cat before. completely wild animal. And yeah, just walk past me kind of looked at me kind of like, you know, kind of like the nod of approval. Like you're right. And I was just like, oh, man, this is beautiful. Love. Yeah, it didn't really make. It made me feel like what I'd done with counting Keanu had really been worth it. Even though with con, it was a terrible situation. And even though Keanu, I was in a terrible situation. It felt like at that moment that I had done everything that I needed to have done.

Chuck Shute: 43:36

Yeah, so explain to me more about con like how you guys found him. I know you rescued him. From these illegal loggers like he was in a tree they cut down but you said something like about how a lot of these loggers that are only getting paid Penny. So sometimes they try to sell these animals or something or so you argued with him? Right? You fought for him that to get the cat?

Harry Turner: 43:58

Absolutely, you know, the black market isn't just like a market that you go down, you walk down on a Sunday, the black market is everywhere. It is it's it's like the black web, you can get anything and you know, anywhere for any price, a lot of the Peruvians that I had worked with wherever they'd come over to conservation or wherever they were still working, as long as all knew that what they were doing wasn't right. But they knew that they had to put food on the plates of their families. That's, you know what, that's what every person does. If you have a family, you make sure that family gets the best that they can get a lot of these people because of their country because of their presidency because of everything that was going on. They don't get respected. They don't get any sort of respect whatsoever. And so what they do is they provide for their family by doing what they need to do by Cutting down trees by doing whatever the job gives them to do, whether that's driving boats, whether that's cutting down trees, whether that's mining, whether that's, you know, getting oil, it doesn't matter, they're going to do what they have to do. A lot of these people, when they do cut down trees cut down the biggest, healthiest trees in the jungle, so that then they can get the square footage that they need, so that they can then give it to the companies which are paying them pennies, which then the companies will sell to either the US or China or, you know, anywhere for 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of dollars. In these moments, they're cutting down on the lungs of the planet. They're cutting down the the kind of like these trees are the homes and the houses to 1000s of animals. It doesn't matter whether it's in the root systems of the trees, and you have all of the armadillo holes. You have the packet Guti, a coochie, you have different kinds of like insects, which borrow in the soil around the bottoms of these trees. It doesn't matter whether it's on the trees where you have all these different types of lizards or these different you know, mammals, whether it be pygmy sloughs, whether it be Tammen Duer, which is like a small anteater, whether it be porcupines, you then continuously go up the tree where you're finding different species of snake, you'll find a different species that insects, the lamb finding like and you're then finding fungus, you're then finding small birds which are making nests and these holes, you have woodpeckers, you then go up to the canopy, where you have the harpy eagle, you have all these different monkey species you have absolutely any sort of insect butterflies, whether it be dragon flies, mayflies, you have all of these things, there's 1000s of animals that live on one specific tree, they utilize and use this tree as their home. When someone cuts that down, and you have an ocelot, which has given birth in a hollow bit of a tree, these are slots. And if you've seen the film, you'll see that these were tiny, they couldn't run away, they couldn't even open their eyes at the beginning. When I first saw Keanu, his eyes had just started to open and his eyes was so blue, and he was still blind, that it was impossible for this small animal to get away. And when people are out logging and hunting, they need food. So when they cut down this tree, if they see an ocelot runaway, the majority of the times, they will have a rifle on them or a shotgun on and they will kill this animal and they will sell the pill for about 25 bucks, they will then eat the meat. And usually if they're going to eat or slot, they will make it in a soup, which is you know, horrible. They say that it's a tough, hard waiver and they don't like it. So they make it into a soup anyway, they then an on off slot will usually have two to three kittens. One of them will most likely die. And then what they do is they usually just give the orphaned Oslo, this point, condensed milk just to let it go by, they'll probably feed it a little bit of rice every now and again, which you know is not in an ocelot diet whatsoever. And then if it makes it out of the jungle to civilization, then they will sell it to the black market so that people can then cut down its nails and sometimes rip their nails out of their paws, grind down their teeth and basically chain this animal up to be a prisoner for a pet. And so it's a horrible, disgusting environment, which a lot of these people are put in by the fact that their country doesn't do anything for them. And I was fortunate enough to find carne and Keanu before any of this had happened. Yes, they had the condensed milk Yes, their mom was probably killed. Yes, they were taken from their home that was cut down whilst they were most likely still in it. But I was able to get them at such a young age that I could make them wild again and make them become the animal where they and where they needed to be.

Chuck Shute: 49:45

How do you do that? How do you train them because like it's so cool in the beginning, you're walking with I think it was Khan and like you just you'd like tap it you see an animal or something you tap him and then he goes after like you trained him. How did you learn all the training techniques and how I don't know how to bottle feed him and, and all those kinds of things you just is that on YouTube? Or like, how do you learn that stuff

Harry Turner: 50:06

that I wish it was on YouTube? I was in the middle of the jungle with no internet whatsoever. I knew that this animal if we're talking about Khan, I knew this animal needed help. And I knew that I knew people that could potentially help me. But I was thinking, What the hell have I got go home for like, I've got literally nothing in the UK. I don't care to go home, I have my family, I have my, my friends. But that's it. So I was like, You know what, I'm going to do this. He needs food, he needs treatment for parasites, so you could tell that he had parasites because his stomach was bloated. Sometimes when he would go to the toilet, you would see that there'll be worms in it. It was, you know, kind of this horrible situation. But I knew that he needed TLC, I knew that he needed food. And I knew that by the age of about two or three months, he was going to start to leave his hole in his tree. And so I was feeding them up, I was given an anti parasitic medicine, I was making him sleep and play with me, I was letting him sleep right on my chest. So he could feel when I was breathe in, and he could feel my heart. And, and at this time, you know, I hadn't had my hair cut for months. So I had a quite a bit of hair, and he would snuggle up in my hair like he would his mother. And I guess that that bond really solidified what we were going to then do for the next you know, year. And I didn't know how to hunt rodents, you know, I'm a British guy that that loves snakes and England has, you know, hardly any snakes. And so it just kind of got to a point of where it was like, Okay, I need to catch rodents, how am I going to do this. And I would go out and I would I had a slingshot. And I was trying to slingshot these rodents, which would move on like 1000 miles an hour over then was living in this place, it was actually the first place where I ever went when I went to the jungle to a place called PI. And I was staying in this room. And then one night I like, heard this like Rodin running in about and it actually chewed through my wallet, ate my money. I had like 10 solace and ate my money. And I was like, you little shit. And so I like three in the morning was running about semi naked through this thing. And I just was killing rodents left, right and center, because I needed him to eat. And so after I'd kill the road, and I put my shorts on, I'd walk down at four in the morning feeding this road, and I just killed his enclosure, come back. And at one point, I just and I've spoken to my therapist about this. And you know, I'd never had a therapist during this time. But currently in 2023. I do. And my therapist and I have spoke about my heightened senses and my heightened hearing and my ability to smell things. And when I smell things, I have these memories and my vision, you know, I have 2020 vision and in the jungle, I can see the smallest of the smallest insect from you know, 100 meters away. And so this point here, right, I was working with Khan. And I was seeing all these incredible things. But now I needed to tune in what I was going to have to do and it was to kill animals I had to I had to provide for my son. And it just got to a point of where I instinctually was just like I can hear that something's over there. And I'd go over there and I would just catch it. And then once Ken was getting a bit older, I realized the ocelots have their ears which are on top of their head, and they have white bits on the tops of their ears, right. They also have white underneath and around all of their eyes. And at this moment in time, I had zero idea why they had these markings. I just thought they were part of the camouflage but then there was you know hardly any of this bright white across all of their body and their tails. By then found out that the white around the eyes was to absorb as much light during the nighttime as possible. And I then found out that the white on their ears was a sign of communication between Mum, you know sibling and themselves. If I saw a rodent when car was in front of me, his right ear would flick because the road was on the right. If I saw a road on the left of him when he was in front of me, his left ear would flick and I knew then I was like he's telling me which way the Romans going. So his he would tweak his right ear and he would start to move right, I would go left the road would then see him and run towards me. And then I would catch it and then we I would feed it to him. We would then start working as a team because I would be able to understand what he was telling me to do.

Chuck Shute: 55:15

That's crazy. Wow, that's so interesting. I didn't realize that that's how Yeah, cuz it's a it made me wonder to like, so he started in an enclosure because I always wondered like, why didn't he just run away I feel like so many animals would just, he was that bonded to you that he didn't run away from you, or at least not for long periods of time.

Harry Turner: 55:35

The The jungle is a treacherous place. And so if he was alone, without his, you know, mother figure, he would most likely get killed. That's that's, you know, it. I am not an ocelot. I am only part Ocelot. And so I needed to go and eat, I needed to go and sleep I needed to help myself out when I was sick or dehydrated, or, you know, I needed to check on the boat I need, you know, I had to do all these things. So I had an enclosure for him. That would allow him to sleep during the day without any other animals getting to them. And I have camera traps on these enclosures. And I've seen mountain lion Puma, I've seen Jag, I've seen giant anteater I've seen all of these animals come in because they can smell and and so I knew I needed to have an enclosure for him. When when I was with him, I would allow him to go off and do whatever he wanted, he would climb up to the highest tree, he would run off for two, three hours, he would go fall asleep somewhere he would catch his own food and I'd have to wait being swarmed and absolutely destroyed by mosquitoes. But I needed him to become wild, you know, I wasn't just gonna like

Chuck Shute: 56:49

you know, never saw the end, obviously.

Harry Turner: 56:52

He always came back until he was sexually mature. And I'm talking about Keanu Karna unfortunately, never got to that part of his life. Because of illegal logging, and, you know, illegal hunting, but Keanu once once an ocelot, especially a male sloth gets to a certain age where you become sexually mature, which is around 14 to 15 months old, he will then go off in search of females. And he would then very rarely, and in the film, you can see that it goes by like the first night he's out. I'm proud of him, I'm happy. And then after that, he'll go for two days, three days, five days a week, you know, and it just started to get he started to become so dependent on himself. He was so independent that he was catching food for himself, he was able to understand threats. He was able to be like, Okay, I'm tired. Now. I'm not just going to sleep in the middle of the trail. I need to get to safety. So then I can, you know, become safe. If anything comes by. He learned, you know, some hard ways of like venomous insects and venomous snakes and caiman and other encounters with ocelots. That it's not a safe place is dangerous. And so he would then come back every now and again to kind of you know what that Ocelot did to me in Ecuador kind of give me the nod of approval, he would come back and kind of give me like, I'm struggling here. This is hard, but I'm living. I'm doing it. And yeah, it was it was so rewarding. so rewarding.

Chuck Shute: 58:35

Yeah, explained to me because this kind of glossed over with con i know, it was some sort of trap or something that hunters set up. What is this thing? What is the goal with the trap? Is it to protect their land is to try to catch animals, is it? And obviously it didn't I mean, it hurt his paw. Right is that? What was the goal with those traps? You say it's illegal?

Harry Turner: 58:56

Yes. So imagine a sawn off shotgun with basically a piece of fishing line, which goes over the hammer and over the top of the barrel and gets attached to a tree which crosses a mammal trail. When that mammal or any person or anything goes through that. Through that fishing line, it triggers the hammer and shoots whatever's in front of it. Because you have that line of fishing line going down the barrel. So whenever they get triggered, it's yeah, it's shot. These are attached to trees. You know, I was about two meters away from Tom when he was shot. It could have been me I was walking on that trail and if he hadn't walked in if he hadn't run in front of me, I probably would have lost my leg. It shot him and the as most people are aware A shotgun is not just a single round, it's many, many pellets of ball bearings. And so his one side was basically completely obliterated from his shoulder all the way down his elbow, basically to his pole. He ran off. And I thought maybe maybe the cat like reflexes in him, allowed him to dodge that. I don't know how but like, He's scared of the noise. And you know, when that bang went off, I struggle with PTSD. I forgot where it was, I thought I was in Afghanistan again, honestly, the smells and the sound and the heat and everything I was. I was in Afghanistan again. And I clicked out of it because I heard a frog. I remember hearing this, this frog. And I remember thinking this, this frog species, isn't it in Afghanistan. And I just remember thinking, what the fuck just happened? Like I need to, I need to figure out what's happening. I snapped out of it. And I remember hearing the slightest lightest noise. And it was just like, and I was thinking that that's calm, like, I need to find him. I couldn't see him he had run off. I then saw a small little bit of eye shine. So mammals, usually when you see them, like if you see a deer in headlights, who will usually see the eyes because the you know, the eyes produced a reflection back. I see this tiny reflection, I say, you know, that's not a snake. That's not a spider that is. That's cones. I know the color of hair to Whitey blue with a slight tint of orange, I know that that's his eye. I know that that could be the direction he went in. I'm talking big, spiky, horrible bushes. And I crawl through for about 25 meters scratched everywhere. And when I get to him, he is there's blood everywhere. So I take off my shirt and I wrap my shirt around him so that he doesn't, you know, move too much and hurt himself further. I then get back to the trail. You know, I'm completely I mean, the complete pitch black. I have only my small light on me at this time because I've can't use my hands because I'm holding, can I get back, I'm bleeding everywhere. He's bleeding everywhere. And I walk back and I drive and I put him in a in a in a crate. And I drive the boat back at nighttime down this river for about an hour and a half. By get to the local community. Some vets meet me there. I fortunately had a satellite phone. Some vets meet me there, I then have to drive all the way. And by the time I get back to, to civilization is 10 hours after he's been shot with a cat which is you know, 30 pounds, you know, 2030 pounds at that time. You lose a lot of blood real quick. And that was it. You know, I physically I physically couldn't do anything. That was it. And so that then, was probably the worst day of my life. I've, I've been in a warzone. I've seen people get shot in the head, but I didn't have the connection that I had with Khan. With that man his death didn't bother me. At that moment in time, you know, like I was thinking like I had an eye like I I was so lost. I'd lost my son, I'd lost something I've been working towards for a year I had failed. And that's how I felt and it was the worst. And I went home. And I thought about jumping in front of every train. I thought about jumping in front of every lorry I thought about you know, doing all this. I went to Australia because I just didn't want to be in the UK. And I thought you know, Australia venomous snakes everywhere. I'm going to, I'm going to and I was I was handling free handling not even with a stick. I was handling some of the most dangerous snakes in Australia. Just because I didn't give a fuck. I was just like, if I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die. And yeah, I went back to Peru because I had this feeling inside me that something hadn't finished. And that's when Kyani came about.

Chuck Shute: 1:04:54

So that gave you a purpose. So that's that because I was gonna say how did you process that? I mean now I'm must've been so crazy, because you already went through so much. And then you were finally feeling a sense of purpose and this love and this connection with this animal. And then it's all taken away. It's like, I mean, it's amazing that you made it through that.

Harry Turner: 1:05:12

I don't know how I did, honestly, I didn't have anyone to help me. The person who I was dating at the time, who is also in the film was a horrible person, extremely kind of, like horrible, you know, and I wasn't the best person, I'm not going to put all the blame on her. But they never helped me in any real situation. My family, I was not in the same country as them, so they weren't able to help me out other than words, and words don't really mean shit when you're going through stuff. Specially from you know, 1000 miles away, or however far I was from them. I had nothing. And, and so when caught when Tom passed away, and when I was dealing with that, I had no glimmer of hope, but Keanu came about and I remember just like just holding him and just fucking crying. And just like just telling him I'm sorry, and telling him that I was going to do the best job I could. Because I'd let his brother down. And I just remember being like, so grateful for this other cat, even though he had been through shit. And he'd been through some horrible stuff. I just remember thinking like, This cat is going to be cut saves me.

Chuck Shute: 1:06:48

And you saved him.

Harry Turner: 1:06:51

Save each other. Yeah, we've saved each other. It's a horrible feeling to feel that way. And it's a horrible feeling to be in a situation where you're thankful for an animal to have lost its mother. But at the same time, like his mother will probably was dead. And his siblings were probably I know that Keanu actually had a brother. But his brother died. And so yeah, I was just so thankful for this animal because I was like, This is my redemption. I failed con and now I have you and I'm going to succeed. I don't give a fuck how I'm going to do it. I'm gonna do it.

Chuck Shute: 1:07:39

And you did. And so what is there any updates on Canada, he's the Somme six months after the after you left on a trail cam. But it's so hard to I mean, he could be anywhere right there. They could move all over through the jungle, they not be on the trail cams, right?

Harry Turner: 1:07:54

Miles, in particular, will kind of stay to a territory. But they will also be pushed out territories by other males. So it's very hard to kind of like keep track, the last video that was seen of him was actually on the very, very border of where the camera traps were. And he went off into a different territory, we're not sure why. We're not sure. If he's still alive. You know, we couldn't put a collar on him. We couldn't do anything like that. It just was very inhumane. And with the technology that we had, then in my heart, I know that he's still out there, whether it's physically, whether it's in spirit, whether it's offspring, whether it's anything like that, I know that I did the best that I actually could. I did everything I could. And yeah, it's a that it's a hard thing. You know, the jungles treacherous place, maybe he's still alive. But if he is not still alive, he did absolutely everything that he could, and I'm sure that there's little Qian is out there. He probably found a lady and wooed her like, like he like he was taught, I guess I tried to teach him how to talk to girls. I remember being on a trail with him and just being like, you know, when you find a lady, you really gotta buy her flowers, do all these different things. Because I was by myself and months and months and months. And I was just like, making conversations with a wild cat is honestly very, very strange time in my life. But I was I was like, yeah, when you find out you can't just go and have sex V like you need to like really like glue her and be like very kind and yeah, it was fun. I would just sit in the forest with him and just have conversations about random crap. And it was hilarious.

Chuck Shute: 1:09:57

It's kind of like Didn't you say to like your laptop was kind of like Wilson of Castaway like you would just talk to your laptop like your it was like a person.

Harry Turner: 1:10:05

Yeah, I, I would talk to my camera quite a bit. I would also talk to Keanu and I was also talked to Ken, you know, when he was about. And there was some days I wouldn't talk for days and days. And I remember, I was cooking some rice. And I went to I was listening to a bit of music, and I went to sing and my voice broke like a teenage boy. And I was like, God, I was like, when was the last time I said anything? I think I looked back. And it was like three days, I hadn't said anything for three days.

Chuck Shute: 1:10:43

Wow. Well, and then talk about the editing with the film because I think you didn't have a lot of control over that. So tell me like what things you if there's anything you would have changed, like things that you would have cut out that they kept in or things that you would have put in they didn't have in because like I saw this one clip that was not in the film, I don't think I saw it like you presenting with it. It was as cool like you were working out with Canada. And he was like on your back and like you guys were doing a workout. It was really cool. Like, where did they put that in the movie, that was a cool scene.

Harry Turner: 1:11:09

So there was over 1000 hours of footage, and we had to cut that down to an hour. And I think it was 40 minutes. And yeah, I didn't have any control over editing. As I am one of the main characters in it. I apparently had a biased view on it, which I kind of understand. A lot of the thing, there's a lot of things I would have changed a lot of things in there are kind of manipulated to entice audiences to continue watching film is Film TV is TV, you're never ever going to change it. My relationship with the other person in it at the time was awful and terrible. And, and I you know, kind of despised her like, but yeah, they tried to make it into a love story. Which I tried to fight against. But yet, you know, I had no say once again, biased. You know, there was clips in there, which really, you know, I shot some incredible footage. And there was this one scene where Keanu is in the water. And about four 430 the sun gets to a point with the humidity in the Amazon. And we call it the golden hour because everything is just gold, it's just a beautiful, like the greenest of leaves will turn orange because that's how beautiful it is. And he's in the water. And he's playing and splashing in this gold. Water is just like flicking everywhere. And he's like rolling in this water. And you know, and there was another scene where the sun was shining through and I was focusing on these two spiders, which ran a web man he is in the background, but you can't see him and then his ear flicks and he turns his head and you can just see how camouflaged yours but you know, the focus is on these spiders. And yeah, none not. None of that made it and and, you know, it's some incredible, you know, even though it's mine, I feel like it's incredible cinematography. And a lot of people I've shown it to have been like, wow, that, you know, these are beautiful images. And you know, at the end of the day, I'm only one person. If I could have done documentary again, I've done it different. But it also probably wouldn't have impacted as many people as it did. And so therefore, in some regards, I am I am grateful for how film did turn out. You know, I'm not gonna go into the nitty gritties of you know, the bullshit that goes with film and filmmakers and how you get mister represented and you get lied to. But it does happen and it definitely did happen in this film.

Chuck Shute: 1:13:57

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you're pretty angry towards the the female in here. I mean it because it didn't really it kind of leaves you like hanging at the end. It was just like, this is toxic, but it doesn't really explain why like it was just kind of confused. And maybe that's how you want to keep it I don't know, but if there's something you want to say about that, I mean, this would be a time to do it. If not, we can move on.

Harry Turner: 1:14:19

Yeah, I think that I have come to terms with that past part of my life. I feel like I feel like we understand, you know, I understand my hatred and she understands her hatred. And now it's just like, kind of one of those things where I don't wish any, you know, good on her, but I also don't wish any bad on her. I just wish that she continues to try and do good for the environment and for wildlife. And I just hope that you know, this world can become a better place. I feel like a lot of a lot of cons Ovation ISTS have this battle. And everyone's trying to outdo each other. And it's kind of an unfortunate thing is like, we're trying to do good to this world, but we're also trying to one up each other. And I just hope that that after seeing this film and people kind of realizing that the one upping of people isn't gonna do anything for this world if we don't work together as conservationists. But yeah, I think that's all I'm gonna say on that matter.

Chuck Shute: 1:15:27

Okay, so then yeah, explain to me, your new nonprofit emerald arch. What what kinds of work are you doing with that? What people can obviously donate? I every episode, I have a charity highlighted. So that would be the one for this episode, obviously, explain what it is and what it does.

Harry Turner: 1:15:45

Yes. So when I first went into the jungle, I was ex military struggling. And I had that epiphany, right, we spoke about i Then after that, probably two, three years after that said to myself, like, if I did it with no guidance, how can I help veterans? And how can I help people in the future who was struggling with depression and PTSD doesn't matter no matter whether it's war related or matter, whether it's domestic violence, or childhood abuse or sexual assault, it does not matter how you're struggling. If you're struggling, you need to be seen, heard and felt to become a better and healthier person. And I thought to myself, How can I bring veterans to the jungle? How can I, you know, help them out in this way. And so we've Ken and Keanu and the chaos that goes with, you know, living a wildlife for several years, we've just wild cats, I never got to a point of where I was going to do that. And so after we left, after I left the jungle, I left and actually met someone who now is my wife. And we decided that, you know, we love the jungle, we enjoy doing all these things in nature, we want to preserve, we want to conserve, we want to work with local people. We want to help serve situations which affect the rainforest, like spaying and neutering of animals, like dogs and cats that are in communities. We want to do what I felt like I should have done years ago, and that is have a safe space, have a protected area. And in that safe and protected area, bring people who are struggling to the jungle so that they can get an insight of what it feels like to be at peace. They can come with no matter the trauma, no matter whatever they have dealt with or gone through all wars they've fought in, or battles that they're struggling with, they can come to the jungle, they will have me who has won been through it, they will have our team which are going to be trained and focusing on them as individuals and people. And in that team are going to be specialists in PTSD and behavior. And we're also going to have you know, ideas of if you would like to partake in ayahuasca, if you would like to partake in any of the nature walks, if you just want to read your book in a cabin for four days and not speak to anybody, this is going to be your place to do it, there's going to be no Wi Fi, there's going to be no connection with the outside world, you're gonna have that feeling of being in the wild. And if I can, you know, say that via emerald arch, we are helping veterans and I can say that, you know, in the future, we have protected and saved the lives of not just animals, but people as well. I'm going to be extremely proud of myself and grateful that I didn't end my life when I really, really wanted to. And so emerald arch currently is a 501 C three based out of Washington State. We are raising funds to buy land in the Ecuadorian Amazon. And after we have bought and acquired the land in Ecuador is when we're going to start building and bringing in the veterans so that then we can then start our veteran nature therapy project.

Chuck Shute: 1:19:19

Wow, that's so cool. And I want to say that, I mean, I think you've already done so much even just with this film, but also you helping the Wildcats and all the other things that you've done for the world. So I mean, you must have gotten a lot of feedback from this film people reaching out to you on Instagram and such and telling you how you've inspired them.

Harry Turner: 1:19:39

I have it was kind of interesting the responses that I would get people reaching out to me. A lot of them were saying thank you. This film was great. I really appreciated it. I kind of know how you feel. A lot of people messaged me, and it kind of felt like I was there. therapist, they were telling me about their traumas, and they were telling me about their issues. And they were asking me how I became better. And the honest truth is, you know, like, a lot of these people have been through a lot more shit than I have, you know, I'm not obviously going to talk about these people's personal lives and stories, but a lot of them were about abuse, death, suicide, so many things, and they were kind of asking me how I became healthier and better. And at this moment in time, you know, I'm not any better or, than they are, I'm not healthier than they are, you know, I'm just, I'm just learning how to deal with it. And setting small goals like, today I have, you know, a few different things to do. And these small goals are given me them things like, Okay, at this time, I need to do this, and I need to do this, and I just bought a house in, in Washington, and my back yard is a forest. And if I feel negative, I go out into the forest with my two beautiful dogs and and run them until they fall asleep. And like, there's small things you need to understand that dealing with PTSD is an individual thing. That if you're if you as an individual are struggling, the way that I have figured out what makes me slightly happier, is not necessarily going to work for you. But it potentially could. And there's gonna be ways that I can help you in that way by saying, okay, just have small goals, spend some more time in nature. And you'll be surprised what nature and wild places can actually do for your, for your psyche. And that's another reason why I want people to come to the jungle who's struggling with PTSD is because when you're in a depressed state, you're unaware of what is healthy for you. You know, like, that's why people drink a lot. And that's why people do drugs. And that's why people just sit in their rooms watching reels on Instagram. And that's why people watch the office for like six days straight. Because they don't know that, you know, getting up moving, hydrating, being out in nature, all these small little things can really help. And when you're in a depressed state, you just you can't see light from dark. It's, it's, you know, I've been there, it's a hard situation to be in. And that's why I want to guide these people to become better people. But yeah, a lot of the responses I got, after the film were incredible. hard to read. And it made me feel like I'm not alone. You know, even though even though I know that a lot of these people are telling me certain things where I'm like, You know what, like, even though these people look at me as like someone who has done these incredible things, and defeated, you know, the inevitable and, you know, done all these different things, like, I'm just a normal person. I'm just, I was born, I was raised, I went through some shit. And I'm struggling, and I'm dealing, but these people look at me as like, how did you do this? But like, it made me feel like, you know, doesn't matter who you are, what you've been through. If you've been seen by millions and millions of people on Amazon Prime. It doesn't matter. You know, like, we're all dealing we're all struggling. We're all getting by day by day.

Chuck Shute: 1:23:27

Exactly. Very well said. I mean, your voice for mental health, your voice for conservation, a voice for veterans with PTSD and a total inspiration. In myself. Like I said, I watched the film twice. I cried several times during it. It's very touching. So yeah, thank you for everything you're doing. And I think you're helping a lot of people and I'm excited to see this emerald arch thing take off. I hope it blows up and gets huge, especially now. We're getting the word out all the like you said millions of people seeing the movie, and hopefully that they can follow you on Instagram and follow your progress with the charity.

Harry Turner: 1:24:03

Thank you. Yeah. And if anybody does want to donate, you can find the donate button at WWW dot Emerald arch.org. And like I said, we're trying to raise the funds so that we can buy our first plot of land and Ecuadorian Amazon. And yeah, we're getting there slowly but surely. And yeah, just taking it one day at a time.

Chuck Shute: 1:24:24

Yeah. And I'm, like I said, I'm from Washington. So I'll try to definitely share this with Minnesota all over the internet, and I'll try to spread the word and for my home state, so that could be you know, kind of a incentive for people living in Washington. This would be a good charity to donate to which part of Washington are you in? Are you in Seattle or like a suburb or?

Harry Turner: 1:24:42

Yeah, I'm about 30 minutes north of Seattle. I'm the Edmonds but yeah, as well when I come back to Arizona, which is going to be quite frequently I'll have to take you out look at for some snakes, dude, you'll love it.

Chuck Shute: 1:24:56

Oh, please, I would I would love that would be a surreal experience for me. That would be like a Make A Wish thing for me, I would love to hang out with you in nature, like, please teach me like, I love the films I love. Like, your knowledge is like, so amazing. And I love learning. So I'm kind of scared of snakes, but you can, like handle it and show it to me. So yeah,

Harry Turner: 1:25:16

the fear of snakes is very natural. It's in, you know, myths, it's in books, it's even in the Bible about how you know, we shouldn't really, you know, be near them. Once you kind of like, understand what and why and how they're so important. You'll then realize that your fear is, you know, just that deep down thing, you don't need to go near it, you don't need to touch it, you don't need to do any of these things. But just to see how they move and see how their camouflage and see you know, all these different things. And I think that your understanding and respect will grow in just even one walk.

Chuck Shute: 1:25:53

Oh, yeah, no, I had I was, uh, I used to be a counselor at a school and I had this kid come in one time. And he had a bunch of snakes. And I was like, your snakes is a pet what? And he took one out and he goes, you want to pet it? And I was like, All right, and I touched it. And yeah, it's really it's cool to touch him. But it's still like, I don't know, like if I want to, like hold it myself and have it crawl on me that I'm not there yet. So well, we can work up to that. So

Harry Turner: 1:26:15

absolutely. It's all the respect thing. And I think that if the world was more respectful of each other and its surroundings, I think this place would be a better place. That's for sure.

Chuck Shute: 1:26:28

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Again, people need to see the movie and donate to Emerald arch. And thank you for inspiring so many people, including myself.

Harry Turner: 1:26:36

Thank you very much. I really appreciate your time, dude.

Chuck Shute: 1:26:39

Yeah, you too. I'd take thanks for taking a little extra with me today since we went a little over the allotted hour or whatever. So I appreciate it so much, and I'll get this out soon.

Harry Turner: 1:26:48

Perfect. Thank you very much. All right. Bye, Harry.

Chuck Shute: 1:26:52

Wow, just an amazing person. I want to thank Harry Turner once again for taking the time to do my show. Make sure to check out his film Wildcat if you haven't already. It truly is amazing. And one of the few movies that has made me cry, very powerful film and beautifully shot in the Amazon jungle. And if you can, please consider donating few bucks to his nonprofit, emerald arch. It sounds like a great project that's truly going to inspire veterans and help them and you can follow Harry on social media to keep up with what he's doing. And if you want to support the show, we're on there as well. Also, make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you watch or listen to be notified of new episodes. And if you want to go that extra mile, you can give us a rating or review or if you're on YouTube, go ahead and hit the like button. I appreciate your support for the show and our guests. Have a great rest of your day and shoot for the moon.