Juan Croucier (Ratt)

Juan Croucier is musician and music producer, best known as the bassist for Ratt. He also played on some early Dokken songs and was briefly in Quiet Riot. Ratt has a new box set available with their 5 albums from the Atlantic years.  We discuss the box set, the songwriting process, an unreleased song, touring issues and much more!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:07 - Doing Interviews
0:03:03 - Concert History & Promoters
0:05:38 - Detonator Tour
0:08:13 - Music Business & Success
0:14:47 - Early Music Years
0:20:35 - Ratt Box Set & Re-Mastering
0:27:00 - Band Dynamics & Psychology
0:33:00 - Juan's Role with Songwriting
0:38:35 - The First Record & Producer Choice
0:42:18 - Unreleased Song Wishing Well
0:48:13 - Juan's Songwriting Habit
0:55:02 - Predicting a Hit Song
0:58:10 - Making the Detonator Album
1:02:15 - Having Discipline & Setting Limits
1:09:40 - Producing Bands & Liquid Sunday
1:14:15 - Make a Wish Foundation
1:17:09 - Outro

📸 picture by Robert Cavuoto

Ratt Box Set:
https://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Years-Ratt/dp/B0BZXGTYC6

Juan Croucier website:
http://www.juancroucier.com/main.html

Make a Wish Foundation website:
https://wish.org/

Chuck Shute website:
https://www.chuckshute.com/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

All right, Juan cruciate is my guest today, you may remember him as the basis for rat. And he played with Dokken. And quiet right as well as his own van he fronted called Liquid Sunday, he does a lot of producing for bands as well. So we're gonna talk about that plus the new rap boxset that just came out unreleased rap songs, some great stories from back in the day and more coming right up, wait, hold on a second, I'm getting word for this podcast to continue, you actually have to subscribe, wherever you're watching or listening. And if you're on YouTube, get to like the video. If you're on an audio podcast, you have to give us a rating or review, I guess at some new thing that they require. Now, I don't know I don't make the rules. But you better comply because it's part of that user agreement that you signed, remember when you accepted the terms of the agreement of the app. So make sure you subscribe to the show and give us a like rating and review. Thank you. You're a total pro. So? Well. Yeah, I want to ask you about that. Even with doing interviews, like back in the day, I'm assuming that you did a lot of interviews, like radio and some, obviously podcasts in the 80s. But does management like give you coaching on how to do interviews? Or what to say?

Juan Croucier: 1:22

No, not at all, you just sort of got a knack for it after a while or, or you didn't, you know, you either had a sort of a way of saying things and you know, back in the day, things were really different. Right? You know, so there'll be a lot of hype around playing, you know, a certain Arena in town, and you just be, you know, dialing into a DJ on the air live, someone that you'd never spoken with, or knew very little about. And you were just trying to sort of deal with what was thrown at you, you know, in real time. So you had to sort of really, you know, hit the ground running. And, and make sure that you, you know, said the right thing about the show and you know, what was currently happening and how the tour was going and so forth. So, you know, things have changed a lot with the with the internet, obviously.

Chuck Shute: 2:18

Yeah, cuz now you can research the interviewer know, like, well even decide like it like with this like you could you could look me up and say, I do want to do this interview. I don't I mean, you can look all the information about me and what you know what you can watch interviews and things like we're back in the day, you just like you said, you're going in blind, you don't know what this radio guy is going to be like,

Juan Croucier: 2:36

you're totally you were by the seat of your pants. And, in fact, you know, even nowadays, you know, when I, when I embark upon something, you know, I, I sometimes forget, hey, I can look something up that I'm not sure about. You know, I mean, I can look up literally where we were in 1985 on July 20th. You know, yeah, that is crazy. It's amazing. Yeah, it really is.

Chuck Shute: 3:04

Do you remember stuff like that? Like, because there's a site called? I think it's like concert history or something. You can go through rat and see every show. I mean, I don't know, might not be 100% accurate, but it's pretty accurate. And you can look and see the dates and who you played with and the venue? I mean, do you look at some of those and just go or is it all kind of a blur?

Juan Croucier: 3:23

No, you know what? I did, in fact, look at that site. And I looked for a particular show that we did. And it wasn't as you said, it wasn't 100% accurate, but it was close, you know, so I'm not sure they may be post, it may be old Pollstar information. You know, but a lot of things have changed. Just like back in the day. When we first started, you had a lot of regional promoters. So you had a certain promoter in Texas and a different promoter in Oklahoma, and, you know, a promoter that handle the the Northeast, and then eventually over time, they all kind of came together. And they started taking up larger territories. So there were fewer promoters, handling larger swaths of the country, if you will. And so, you know, it's it was sort of an evolution and, and interesting.

Chuck Shute: 4:24

Yeah, we have a guy here. You probably know Danny's Alesco. He's Arizona, and he wrote a book and he you know, he's he does a lot of that. And I think it's the same thing. He started in Arizona and I think he's gotten things maybe doing Vegas now in other territories. But yeah, it's it's an interesting business. Because you the concert promoters, they kind of take the risk, right, and they, they front the money for the show, and then hope that they make enough on the tickets. Next,

Juan Croucier: 4:47

right. It's a risky business. And, you know, you know, it's sort of one of those things where you can really win big, you know, you have someone that is big, I mean, it's easy to name Big bands, right? So you have a big guy coming through. And you know, everything's great. The Reno's sold out, you know, everything's just going smoothly. And then you have riskier groups or, you know, riskier packages of bands. And, you know, over the years, and getting to know some of the promoters, I realized that wow, it is a really risky business because they had certain packages that would come through and just weren't doing the numbers. It just wasn't translating, you know? So, yeah, it's, it's a gamble, that's for sure.

Chuck Shute: 5:34

Yeah, cuz no, it wasn't remind me. Didn't you guys the last tour you did? That one did the last money but it didn't performed expectations. Right. Was it you and Ellie guns, I want to say are,

Juan Croucier: 5:45

you know, we had we had several different groups that came on to the last two of the detonator tour. Yeah. You had, for example, we had a jam in the beginning. That was just sort of a, an impromptu contraband, the record was called. And we had Tracy guns and Michael Schenker and Richard Black was a singer. And then and Peter, shear Peterson, excuse me, decided for whatever reason that she couldn't participate. So I filled in for her. And we did just did a couple of songs at the beginning of the show. And then the there were different bands that were opened up throughout the tour. So that was during a transitory period, where a lot of name acts, were not producing the numbers in the arenas. And I remember hearing about the Omni theater in Atlanta, Georgia, it was David Lee Roth, I believe it was Cinderella, and a couple other bands. And we had found out that the numbers were really low. And it was concerning, because, you know, David Lee Roth was huge. And, you know, Van Halen, and I mean, you know, it doesn't get much better, right, you know, so that was of concern. And it was really sort of a, a shift in the music industry, from, you know, the hard rock bands that were on MTV throughout the 80s, to what was typically so often referred to as, you know, the Nirvana effect. And so it was a really interesting time to tour. And, you know, there were territories that were strong, there was some territories that were weaker. And, you know, promoters took it upon themselves to either do the shows, or, you know, bow out. And so it was challenging, but it was very, at the same time, we had a great time, it was a very great, great tour, very enjoyable. And so you know, it, that's sort of the live industry, it's sort of an evolution is constantly evolving, you know, to where it is today, obviously, you know, I read an article recently about how more and more venues are now taking a cut of eMERGE, you know, heard

Chuck Shute: 8:19

that too. Yeah, it's crazy. That wasn't a thing back in the 80s.

Juan Croucier: 8:23

That will, you know, you wouldn't have ever thought that in the 80s. And, in fact, a lot of those deals, just the way the business was conducted was very, very different. Again, coming back to the internet effect. There weren't a lot of ways to verify things. So you know, you trusted the sheets of papers, with the count hand written, you know, you had no way of really confirming that or, you know, cross checking it. Not always, but sometimes you didn't have a way to confirm it. You know, you had to make sure that Well, I guess there was a lot of trust involved, right?

Chuck Shute: 9:01

Yeah. What is your relationship? You mentioned the Seattle bands, what was your relationship? Did you guys have I forget, if you guys had any new Seattle bands open for you, or if you were friends with any of those guys, before they they blew up?

Juan Croucier: 9:14

You know, it was a different genre. And so, all of a sudden, I remember, you know, I was producing groups early on, and what I would do is I would find bands or I get recommended a band and I would, you know, I work with them. And then I would eventually record them and produce a demo, and take it to record companies. And I remember going to, to a record company that is well known, and them just being just totally close to the idea of another ad type of arena rock. They were really searching for something out of the Seattle area. And it was just like, wow, really Li, you're not going to really listen to the band and hear the songs and kind of go see them maybe come to a rehearsal. It's just no, you know, so I that was a sort of startling unexpected. And so I consider it sort of like fishing in a certain pond. And all of a sudden, you know, you come to the conclusion, you know, there's no big fish here anymore. Let's go to another pond. So anything that was in that previous pond is just ruled out, which is unfortunate for a lot of bands. You know, a lot of people got overlooked because of that.

Chuck Shute: 10:34

No, absolutely. But the other was that because there was some, some good 90s bands that weren't necessarily grunge. But were more just classic like brother Kane, I thought that was a great kind of 90s. Not necessarily grunge band. I mean, they were more just heart classic hard rock, maybe they weren't hair metal, but I mean, they were somewhat successful. And I thought,

Juan Croucier: 10:54

you know, one thing to note is back in during that era, record company backing was extremely important. And that's what I'm saying, no matter what the talent level of the group truly was, right? You had that record company backing, you were dead in the water. You know, I mean, you were just, you were in the club circuit, if you were lucky. You know, so to, as you were originally saying, you know, the bands had opened up for us during the last tour. Those are bands that the record company was supporting, they hadn't investment in them. They had high hopes it will work in radio, you know, remember, there was a couple books, I believe, that came out about payola, with radio stations back in the day, and all the little stories about, you know, certain program directors that would get, you know, Faber's and whatnot, it was a very competitive business for the that radio time, you know, and if you didn't have that, it was like you never put a record out.

Chuck Shute: 11:59

Right? So do you think that in a way that's good with the way that things are set up now, because anybody can upload music to YouTube or Spotify, you don't need a radio station. But the problem is, anybody can do it. So it's just a flooded market. Now, it's hard to find the good stuff, there is a lot of great stuff out there,

Juan Croucier: 12:17

you're spot on, there is a lot of great stuff out there, the problem is waiting through all sorts of demos, from some, some guy who's just learning how to play maybe, you know, I don't want to, you know, denigrate anyone, but you know, there's just so much to get through that, it's really hard to find things that that you can listen to that, you know, maybe maybe within the style that you're looking for. So the record company did serve a purpose, it's often overlooked, they would sort of filter out a lot of the groups that maybe weren't ready to be, you know, polite about it. And they would give you the groups that were the strongest in that genre. So that would be a great time saving, sort of service. But with that comes, you know, the fact that you would often not find those little gems that maybe you would have normally have found.

Chuck Shute: 13:18

Yeah, and then some bands, I felt like, it seemed like they were ready, they get signed to a major label, and they just, they never got as big as maybe they should have like, I mean, I think of a band like like kings X, I feel like why didn't they get huge? I mean, they're so beloved among other musicians, but they didn't get to that next level. I don't think

Juan Croucier: 13:34

you're so right. You know what, it? It's such an unfair business, so many things have to go right. Not only do you have to have it together, you have to be a great songwriter, you have to be a great player, you have to be a great performer. But even with all those things, operating, you know, on all cylinders, it's one of the links in the chain doesn't work. It's a done deal. You know, so a lot of bands never got a fair shake. And it's very unfortunate. And I agree with you about king sax, a fantastic band, you know, so talented. Just, you know, I mean, incredible. So, you know, why aren't they, you know, huge, and it's just complicated. And that's the nature of the business. And then you have other bands that you might think, you know, yeah, I've heard that song a bunch of times as good pops on. But, you know, there's not a lot of musical maybe depth or whatever. So, there's a lot of variables that can really affect a band's trajectory.

Chuck Shute: 14:43

Now Absolutely, it's interesting that you somehow magically we're in a you know, you weren't quiet riot, Doc and and rat I mean, I feel like that's like amazing that you were able to just kind of shift around and you didn't have any like duds you had three big hit bands that you got to be a part of and then Obviously, you stayed with route the longest, but that's pretty amazing. Like the odds of that.

Juan Croucier: 15:06

You know what, again, you know, when you when I think about the late mid 70s Onward, there was a real shift in music. I was really good friends with a guy, Keith Morris from a band called Black Flag and circle jerks and so yeah, yeah. And we lived in Redondo and Redondo Beach, California. And, you know, he was just, you know, had his finger on the pulse of what was happening at the time with bands like The Sex Pistols, The Ramones, you know, and, and all that and, and then came new wave, and course we had disco, let's not forget disco, right? So there were a lot of things that were changing. And as a musician, the reason I'm saying all this, as a musician, you sort of wanted to have your pulse on what was going on? And how would that affect me and where I want to get to, and you network, your network a lot, and you didn't have the internet, you certainly didn't have cell phones, you had to do a lot of cold calling, you know, on numbers that you didn't even know if they were the right numbers kind of find maybe a connection. And so in doing that, there was a natural scene happening in Hollywood. And I was privy to it early on, because I have an older brother, couple older brothers, but one of them in particular was playing a lot in Hollywood, with various bands. And so I got an early introduction to it. And, you know, as a player, you're always trying to ascend, you're always trying to find a, a great situation to be in or be a part of, or help out with. And so throughout that I just started, you know, kind of knowing what groups were doing, you know, headlining and doing well, and who was in those groups and meeting people and, and it was just sort of a natural progression. So it was really an enjoyable time, there was a lot of excitement. And it was a common denominator was the dream of making it to the point of playing in a big arena, right?

Chuck Shute: 17:18

Yeah, I love that. Because like, you start it, you start you're playing the violin and like second grade, and then you go from like, that time before you guys make it. That's is that that's a really exciting time. Like, how, how about how much struggle did you have to go through? Like, I mean, because rad was pretty big, even before they got signed, they were big on the strip or whatever, right? I mean, they were still playing pretty big venues and things. And same with Dokken.

Juan Croucier: 17:41

Yeah, look, you know, I mean, I remember one, one gig that just came to mind as you were speaking, we played this. It was a movie theater in Hermosa Beach with rat. And you know, there were a few bands, and we were one of them. And we got out and we played and the place was packed, because it wasn't that big. It was a movie theater. Right. And so after that, we're packing our equipment in the alley next to the movie theater. And so we sent one of our guys to go get the pay. And he's coming back with like a case of beer. And we go, all right, you got it. You got some beer, that's great. We'll get something to drink when we go to rehearsal to dump our equipment off, right. And we're all gone, basically. Okay, so where's the money? And he pulls out like, what was approximately $13.50? And we said, What's that? He goes, Yeah, that's our pay. Go, no, we're kidding me. $13. We just play for a sold out crowd. And we get $13 In a case of beer. And unfortunately, that was it. There was really not much you could do back in those days. You know, you weren't about to take a promoter to court, you know, yeah. So things are really kind of dicey in many ways. But, you know, you, you sort of struggled but you, you sort of, you know, figured it out after a while, you know, and it was important to play the popular venues of the time, there was a country club and the Starwood and the whiskey, of course, and the Roxy and the troubadour, and, but there were a lot of other places in Orange County, you know, throughout the valley, and so forth. So, you know, we looked at everything as an opportunity to further the cause. And so, but it's interesting, because, yeah, there were gigs like that where you, you wouldn't get paid.

Chuck Shute: 19:43

I've heard Yeah, I've heard too many stories like that. It's just upsetting. Yeah, I think it's different with the internet because now you could just tweet that or something and then go viral and everybody attacks this club owner, which would be a good thing, right?

Juan Croucier: 19:55

Oh, listen, it's a completely different world. Now. There. There's just you know, I never thought I sort of think, you know, of those days is like, you know, so distant. And technology has really brought about a, just a seismic shift in the industry in many ways, as you were saying, you know, some good and some not so good, you know, you know, arenas, you know, now, you know, wanting or requiring or asking for things that they would have never asked for in the past, you know, so you sort of have to adapt. Right? You know,

Chuck Shute: 20:33

yeah, no, absolutely. It's and that's what's cool is that there was a resurgence, like, I mean, the music of the 80s kind of struggled for a little while, but then it came back. And now it's been around for decades. I mean, it's still going strong. I know you guys aren't touring currently, but a lot of bands of that era are and you guys recently did not that many years ago. So I mean, it's exciting that we could still see this music and still hear it. And then obviously, you got the box set. Now that's out and that's exciting.

Juan Croucier: 21:00

Yeah, the box, it's terrific. You know, it's, if you're gonna pick up something best of it's really the one to get, because you've got the five Atlantic Records on vinyl. And they were remastered by a gentleman named Andy Pierce, who does, you know, a huge amount of remastering. I didn't realize there were that many records competing Remastered. But um, I heard some of the remastering that he did. And he did an excellent job. And to put it in in layman's terms, he sort of brought out the guitars more. And the fact that you're printing onto vinyl, brings out the low end a little more, you know, that's one of the things that we lost in the digital age with CDs, a lot of times you'd run home and you put on the Led Zeppelin record that you had on vinyl, but it was all scratched up. Now you had a perfect CD copy. But all of a sudden your stereo back in the day we use stereos, you know, your stereo sounded different. The low end the frequencies were different, you know. And at first, they didn't really know what to do with digital. So they just sort of transferred it and hope for the best and some records sound a good and some not so good. So in remastering this time around, going to vinyl, it's actually different sounding from the original records. So the listener will hear things that he maybe wouldn't have he or she maybe wouldn't have heard before, or been aware of before. So it's really a cool package. And there's some extra things in there. Like there's a backstage pass that we actually used back in the day, a pic. There's also a booklet that we all contributed pictures to that are pictures that are from personal archives. And so there's, it's pretty, it's a pretty neat little package how

Chuck Shute: 23:03

you send the vinyl, but isn't there a CD version too?

Juan Croucier: 23:07

Yeah, there is. And and of course, you know, you can always you know, for convenience, you know, you know, obviously pick that up. And you know, hey, there's nothing wrong with that at all, believe me that's

Chuck Shute: 23:18

remastered as well. Right? It is it does.

Juan Croucier: 23:21

So the difference though being with analog and you know, I don't know if you've noticed, or maybe talk to other people about it, there's sort of been a resurgence in vinyl. Oh, yeah. You know, and in fact, I got a turntable a few years ago, that was really cool, because it's got a USB port on it. Right? That's cool. I can literally plug it into my computer and read through my computer speakers. Were before most turntables were strictly analog, and you'd have to sort of get a converter or maybe, you know, a sound card to adapt. And you know, it does sort of go through a couple of hoops. So, you know, it just depends on you know, what type of audio listener you are. So audio files, purists really love vinyl. For its audio qualities and characteristics. It's very musical, you know, but again, yeah, you can pick up the CD version of it, and it's not the big box set, but it's certainly a great listen. And those five records are you know, very interesting and very for you know, me and hope others very enjoyable.

Chuck Shute: 24:35

Yeah, what emotions does that see in this box set? And looking back on those five albums, what emotions come up, I'm assuming pride has got to be one of them.

Juan Croucier: 24:44

You know what? We honestly work really, really hard and forgive me the phone is on i Pardon me. I can. I can't reach it right now. And I don't want to get out from here. So but no, you know, we weren't very very hard. And in those days, a band like rat, we basically had the mindset of it was Do or die, I mean, our lives depended on the records that we were recording, if they weren't successful, the whole thing became a would become a failure, you know, so we did the best that we could with, with in that moment in time, and with the tools that we had, you know, it's easy to forget how things were so different back then, you know, a band going into a recording studio, gaining recording experience was very difficult, because studios were so expensive, that they were just priced out of the equation, you know, for bands without record company support. So, you know, and then once you got in the studio, it was, hey, we got X amount of time to get all of this accomplished. So there's not going to be let me think about let me try it this way. Let me change the melody line, maybe we should shorten up the verse. There wasn't none of you were lucky if you got your songs recorded. And you got most of the mistakes. repaired, you know, right. Yeah. So you know, we're talking about a totally different approach and a totally different headspace back then that's reflected on those records that we did. And of course, recording now is just so so different.

Chuck Shute: 26:37

Yeah, well, I'm just, I feel like a big part of that was, you know, today, you look at promotion, everything social media, but back then it was like, grass roots, like I read Pierce's book, which was fascinating read, and just the love the you know, the whole the stories about the flyering and stuff, and just, you know, scrounging to get these gigs and promote the band. I mean, because there's so many other bands that are trying to do the same thing. Somehow, you guys rose up above them all, and became one of the best bands of all time.

Juan Croucier: 27:03

Well, you know, interesting, chemistry and dynamic that occurred in rat, I'm familiar with band dynamic, extensively, because I've produced and engineered a lot of bands from my studio. So when you see how other bands work in the studio, you start understanding what I consider to be band psychology. Every band has some form of band psychology that it operates by, or, you know, it's subjected to, depending on if you're on the giving or receiving end, right. So, you know, rat had a chain of events that occurred, that brought forth a lineup that made it a very formidable opponent, for other bands. And, you know, we were hungry, young, on a mission, and had absolutely nothing to lose. So we had everything to gain, you know. So, you know, it's interesting, because as the record companies had such a grip on the industry, and concert promoters, as we were saying earlier, we're like the second tier of that, you know, you there was no way around that, you know, so fast forward to today. And it's a vastly different industry. You have various Well, you have many more categories, and subcategories of styles of bands and music. You know, back in the day, you had, you know, hard rock, metal, pop, you know, and then you had like, the DeFranco family, right, you know, Kitty rock, you know, so there weren't that many genres. Although, of course, you know, that's taking into account punk rock and new wave. But these things were evolving. And so it was a really interesting time. And basically, the recording end of it, you know, if you want to get into a studio, that was a huge accomplishment in and of itself, right.

Chuck Shute: 29:14

Right. Well, so when you talk about band psychology, explain this to me, because I always find this fascinating. I know, like, I had Brian weed from Tesla, and he was talking about, you know, he was telling me how Tesla had a lot of, he called them discussions, but it sounded like there was a lot of fighting in you know, but it was all to make the band better, because they all cared so much. And I feel like that's gotta be the same with rat is one of the things that made them great. People can talk about the fighting in band fighting, but it's that you all cared if everyone was apathetic. I don't think the band would have been as great. So don't you need some of that passion? You just got to harness it. Isn't that kind of how bands become great?

Juan Croucier: 29:51

Yeah, look, it's a collective right. So as they say, often, you know you're only as strong as your weakest link. Okay, so there's also a vision involved, you know, where does the band want to go? And how does the band plan on getting there? And then there are extracurricular issues, you know, is everybody in a sound mind? Does somebody have a dependency issue? Or, you know, should somebody have a dependency issue. But, so there's a lot of factors that, that enter into it. And basically equate how effective a band can be working as a unit. Oftentimes, in groups, there are certain people that will be sort of the catalyst of the ideas that come forth, and are a, you know, become the band's output, if you will, in other words, songwriters. Depending on how smoothly that goes, and what the understanding is, and the type of communication you have, within that structure, determines how effective you can be, of course, that's all predicated upon how talented you are, right? Right. True. Communication in the world, if you can't write a hit song, or you can't effectively communicate or cooperate, if you're not willing to cooperate, you're sabotaging the potential of the group to run at its maximum. So, you know, a lot of times, like you were saying, Brian, we talked about discussions and, you know, you don't want to let the outside world you know, no, you know, every single detail, it's just not necessary, you know, there's a certain amount of privacy that's required. And it's art. That's the other factor in art, you can look at something and go, Oh, that's a horrible painting. But another person might look at it and go,

Chuck Shute: 31:51

that's a Picasso, right? Absolutely. Yeah.

Juan Croucier: 31:55

So a lot of it is subjective. And, you know, so it takes a lot to really create a band that's effective. And, interestingly enough, isn't it interesting how certain bands have sustained their success at this point? That started out with humble beginnings, but the unit has managed to move forward, and, you know, deal with adversity, and, you know, and move on and sustain a long and happy career. So you never know, it's a big gamble. And, you know, the average life of a band, isn't that long. Seems like nowadays, bands lasts a little longer. But, you know, a lot of bands just, you know, never really reached the full potential. It's difficult. And that's the band psychology part of that is an interesting aspect that I don't think it's often talked about.

Chuck Shute: 32:57

Yeah, no, it is fascinating. So with your role in the band on those records, were you typically like bringing songs? Or was it like, Stephen and Warren would kind of have a song and then you kind of like, would, you know, make a part of it like the hook or the chorus or something? Or what was your in terms of songwriting? What did you do?

Juan Croucier: 33:15

You know, I've been saw writing songs for a really long time. It's something that I started doing early on, again, thanks to my older brother, Tom, and Louis. Both of my older brothers and I have a younger brother named Rick, who's a great drummer. We're all musicians, we come from a musical family. My, my father was a great singer. And so writing songs was something that was just as important as being able to play your instrument. So in the rat situation, I would bring in finished songs, I demo them up myself, I'd bring them in, I brought in lack of communication, for example, completely finished. Nothing left to the imagination,

Chuck Shute: 34:02

lyrics, just the music.

Juan Croucier: 34:05

All of it were melodies, music, the beat, the tempo, the whole thing. I play everything on it. So but let me correct myself on a song like lack of communication. Back then, I was recording on a four track machine, a Tascam, 244 Portastudio. And so you had to be really careful how you bounce tracks. So on lack of communication, my last count, I had to record it twice, actually, because I wore out the tape. It was on cassette tape. So to make a long story short, you had to bounce within the tracks, to be able to layer all the parts that you wanted to hear. So it became very difficult and often, the actual music was mono. And you would have the vocal larynx and there was no going back once you bounce straight and you erase those other tracks that you bounced from, you couldn't go back and fix it. So you had to be really careful, it was a painstaking task. And so getting back to rat, you know, there were, there was no set way of doing things, a lot of times the band were workup, music, and then we would address the lyrics and melodies later. In rat. Interestingly enough, there are two singers in the group. That's what made us really kind of different from maybe some of the other hard rock metal bands. I had always sung lead, and most of my bands when I was in Dokken, Don Dokken, and I would share lead vocals. And so, in rat, we had a situation where Stephen and I were the main singers of the group, in those early records, you know, I sang all the backgrounds with the producer, next to me or behind me, depending on how the vocal blend needed to be. And we would just layer the background parts. We do the the mids and then we do the high parts, maybe at a lower layer, for example, but it would just be us stacking those parts together. And so there were really several different ways of approaching songs. There was no set way. And so yeah, that's,

Chuck Shute: 36:27

you know, like with lack of communication, you sang on it? Does Piercey sing it, like you sang it? Or does he put his own spin on it and kind of change things?

Juan Croucier: 36:36

Well, you know, with that song, it was the melody was there, the the song idea was there. And, in fact, what happened was on out of the cellar, after doing the EP, we didn't have that many songs left over. And when it came time to do out of the cellar, excuse me. We had eight songs. And so, you know, the producer was going well, you guys got anything else. And so I brought in the next day, I brought in a tape of several songs that I had been currently working on. Sorry, I got a little frog in my throat. And a couple of the songs where she wants money. And the other song was, of course, lack of communication. So it was completely finished. It was done, the lyrics were done. The melodies were done, the arrangement was there. And we literally did it exactly as I had originally recorded it. And I had the tape obviously. And so then Stephen changed a couple lines, and just changed the words. And, and that was it. That's the way the song went down. She wants money, the same thing. It was the same arrangement that I had on my demo. And basically the same lyrics. Stephen changed a couple of words in that as well. So that's kind of how it worked at the time. You know, again, you know, we were flying by the seat of our pants, we didn't have a whole lot of time, to for example, it wasn't a situation where you guys need to go write some more songs. We didn't have time for that, you know, we needed a couple more songs, we were making the record, the record deal was in the process of being put together. And in fact, when we did out of the cellar, we hadn't even signed with Atlantic. So we were making the record, and we hadn't really signed a record deal yet. You know, wow. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 38:38

Taking a risk, then. Pardon me? It's taking a risk, or was that the management front that money?

Juan Croucier: 38:44

No, you know, we there was we, you know, we knew the intent was there. Okay. And we had we had worked with their producer Beau Hill, who was new at Atlantic. And of course, you know, back then this was when Doug Morris had been promoted by Ahmet Ertegun to President of Atlantic Records. And we were like the first band that he actually signed to the label. So, you know, everyone sort of had something to prove. So that worked well for us. But technically speaking, we were making the record without a record deal. You know,

Chuck Shute: 39:16

wow. What was the Why did you guys go wasn't Beau Hill, a little bit of a risk? Because he had less experience there was this other guy I thought that was supposed to produce a Thomas owl owl alum or something Thomas, James alum. What was he?

Juan Croucier: 39:30

There were a lot of producers that had made the records that we that we loved, you know, you had Jack Douglas and, and various other guys. I mean, you know, the list is long, Tom Allen being one of them. believed he had worked with Judas Priest at the time. But there were many, many producers, whose records we we admired. And you know, it's kind of like you hear a great record. And as a musician, you you think to yourself, Wow, I wish I could make my band sound like that. You know, if we were to make a record, so yeah, we talked about Tom alum, you know, there was Tom warmen. There was Jack Douglas. You know, there were various other producers, Roy Thomas Baker was huge at the time, you know, again, you know, I'm going back, you know, to early 80s, trying to remember what it meant to this producer, you know, so, um, you know, we wanted to find somebody that would make the kind of record that we looked up to and enjoyed, and were fascinated by and, you know, and inspired by. And so, in doing that, we also wanted to have a good relationship with a potential record company. So there were a lot of moving parts. And so we were introduced a bow, he came to our rehearsal studio. And we, you know, we were polite, and we established a working sort of, you know, introduction. And what we did was, we went into the studio, and we demoed a couple of songs. And just to get a feel for each other, how would it go in the studio? What's your style? Like? What kind of sounds do you like? What would it record potentially sound like if we worked with you? And so we cut I believe it was three songs, you know, and we went into a nice studio, a village recorder, and in West LA, Western a cinema, I think it's West LA. And Santa Monica either or anyway, so the bottom line is, it was it worked. It worked. You know, Bo was very talented. Was a hands on kind of guy. So he wasn't just a producer. He was an engineer as well. He was very musical. He was keyboard player,

Chuck Shute: 41:56

backup vocals to write with you. Yes, he

Juan Croucier: 41:58

did. He did the backup vocals with me. And, you know, so it clicked, it worked. And then after that, at that point, you know, we gave, you know, gave it the thumbs up. And and then we get began what was going to be pre production for the out of solo record.

Chuck Shute: 42:17

Okay. So I know this, this box set, it's just, it's the original records. There's no demos or live tracks or bonus tracks. But I know you guys released that collage record after you left. They had some demos, but I found some songs on the internet. So tell me are these rap songs or something that you can tell? It's Piercey singing? I don't know, if it's a solo stuff. There's a song called Fire me up. Is that a rat song? Is that something you worked on?

Juan Croucier: 42:42

You remember that? It's not something I worked on. And there, you know, there's all sorts of things on the internet. There's a lot of people that, you know, took a little micro cassette to a concert and recorded it and you know, sat you know, up in the bleachers of the loge.

Chuck Shute: 43:00

What about the song running on borrowed time? Is that do you remember that one?

Juan Croucier: 43:04

I didn't have anything to do with that song either. So about

Chuck Shute: 43:08

Well, this one I know you talked about and I couldn't find it. You said there was a song that you guys did that was like a ballad called Wishing Well, tell me about that one. I couldn't find that anywhere. Yeah, that's

Juan Croucier: 43:19

again, that's a song that I wrote and recorded by myself. And we were going to do it for the Reach for the sky record. But there was some difficulties. And so by the time that we let you say, we we righted the ship. There were songs that that were kept off the record. So that was a song that I wrote. And actually, at that point, I was able to demo it a little more, in a little more detail, let's say, okay, because I was using a 16 track machine. So I was able to layer the overdubs. And actually, what's interesting, in the demo of that song, is I use an extensive amount of keyboards. So the version that that rat was doing was just sort of a stripped down version without keyboards. But at that point in time, we were changing producers. The band had been on the road a long time, there was a certain amount of roadburn and, you know, some other issues that probably wouldn't be appropriate for me to touch on. So we, we just did the best with what we had at that point, and finished up the record. So you know, wishing well is, you know, it's a song that I, I'm proud of, you know, as a songwriter. If you, if you write a lot, you eventually sort of, not just critique yourself, but come to understand when you've got something that's exceptional for you. Okay. And oftentimes, oftentimes, it's hard to be objective, but trying to be objective, you know that there are some songs that stand out above others, you know, for what you typically do when you're writing a song, and wishing well was one of those, you know, it's just a unique point that I sort of came upon. It was an idea that sort of worked. And it's a very positive song. It's a song literally saying, it literally says, No one can stop you. Okay? You know what you got to do. So give it a try. If you take your chances you will find, and then it goes into the verse. Everyone has a dream to make into extremes, you just have to survive to tell, you know, I love it.

Chuck Shute: 45:59

Is there any point to release some of these unreleased demos and bootleg songs like this? This would be fun to hear?

Juan Croucier: 46:06

Yeah, look. Okay, I have an extensive amount of demos that I've recorded over many, many years. And because I did them by myself, I had to do them with a drum machine. So they're actually recorded pretty well for the tools that I had at the time. And I had to record everything myself, because I really couldn't afford to pay somebody to come in, learn the song, play the song, you know, it was just too time consuming. So I have a lot, a large list of songs that are completely finished, much like lack of communication, and she wants money, and so forth. So I'm gonna be addressing those songs. And I'm going to be working on of course, I'm a studio owner long time. And so I'm going to be releasing new music as time comes, you know, in the near future, I have an EP that I'm re doing right now, and going to rerelease it. So my output will increase. And, you know, I'm, I'm an artist. So, you know, there's a lot of factors that go into it. You know, because in the music industry, there's a lot of things that work and a lot of things that don't work, and you want to try to do the right thing. And so, the issue is, I probably won't have the time, or the energy to rerecord many of these songs with the band. Time will tell, because I continue to write so most writers will tell you that they love the songs that they wrote most recently. No, sir. Yeah. You know, but I don't want to ignore the past and ignore the history that I have as a writer, a singer, songwriter, if you will. So yes, I want to release those things. And I think that eventually, the demo of wishing well will eventually come out. And I'm proud of those things. You know, I have to tell you, I worked so hard for so many years, during the rat days. I was the guy that would literally bring two giant road cases full of recording equipment, under the bus through a whole tour. So I had basically a recording studio in my hotel room. Okay, wow. Oh, yeah. And believe me, our road crew, you know, wasn't very happy with me. But, you know, nowadays, you can do most of this with a laptop. Right? Yeah. You know, and I still have those road cases. In fact, one of them sitting in my control room right now. And I had a slot for a keyboard. I had an amplifier super champ, vendor super champ that I would put in the back. I carried my guitar and bass quest, I had my guitars and bass with me bases with me. And I would have a mixing board at first it started with a four track, and then it grew to one other rack with a sliding four track. Because at first it was like I had to take out the four track I had to take out the drum machine I had, you know, like a was every night in the hotel. Yeah, every night that I could, especially on days off. And so over the tours, yeah, I'd never

Chuck Shute: 49:32

know you were not like partying and going crazy. You were like working on the tour.

Juan Croucier: 49:38

Look, I like to enjoy, you know, the times I wasn't you know, you know, out of control. I wanted to I knew that the cycle was tour. Come home, catch your breath. Right stars into the studio, make the videos back on tour, rinse and repeat right Be ahead of it. And so my studios to kind of complete the thought my studios went from being portable, which was like one big, big suitcase to being a vertical rack mounted thing that probably weighed in excess of 500 pounds, okay, to two of them, they call them the refrigerator and the freezer. And these things will come to my room. And I would basically, I had a state of the art recording studio with a digital computer sequencer, and a mixing board a 16, track, analog machine, keyboards, everything you would need a drum machine, etc. And I would set these things up. You know, when I had time and was able to a lot of times, you know, you're just, you're sleeping for five hours, and you're off to the next city, you know, you wouldn't have time to set anything up. But on the days off, I would set up my studio and track ideas. And, you know, there was some good ideas that came from him from those days, if you will, from those sessions. And one thing that was really interesting, and, you know, just to kind of give you an idea of effective usage, I guess, was after we finished the out of cellar tour, we took a vacation as a band, and we went to Hawaii. And we sort of thought it would not only be a great time to just cool off and reflect. You know, we just been on tour with Billy Squire and had done a lot of dates. And when squire had days off, we play solo shows not so much headlining clubs shows, you know, so we were really working really hard, you know, I remember stretches where we'd have 21 shows in a row with no days off. Okay, our road crew was going, Hey, I gotta quit. I can't do this anymore. You know. So at the end of all that, we decided to take a vacation to Hawaii. And I brought at that point, I had one case, okay, because it was out of the cellar. So, you know, I set this up in the hotel room that we had, we had these really nice rooms, right on the, on the beach with a private beach. And it was just really a nice time. And, and I made it so the guys could come over, we could work on stuff, and kind of come up with ideas. And one of the songs that we originally demoed there was laid down, and I just basically programmed the drum beat, you know, the beat that is in the song. And Warren and I were, he had had this riff for quite a long time. So we didn't really know what direction to take it in. So we I sort of worked with him on an arrangement and added a couple of different parts that would sort of move the part that he had around. So using it as a verse, and then using it as a chorus, and then using it as a tag or a bridge. What have you. So that was as an example, that was one of the songs that came out of the refrigerator, if you will,

Chuck Shute: 53:10

that's interesting. Does that, um, does that make a big difference location, like when you think back at some of the songs are like, I remember when I wrote that on the, you know, on the beach in Hawaii, or like, I wrote this in a hotel in Cleveland, or like those locations stick out.

Juan Croucier: 53:25

Right? No, no, you know, really, it's really about the idea that you come up with, and whether that flows naturally or not in songwriting, and I'm sure, you know, 1000s of people have said this, you know, songs can come quickly, or songs can take a long time, you know, as an example. Let me see, scratch that itch. Okay, I wrote that song in about five to 10 minutes. It was just there. And then, oh, yeah. And then I'm gonna go to this part. And then I could do this here. And oh, wait, here's the lyrical idea. Here we go, you know, and boom, boom, boom, and it just flowed. You know? So for me personally, since, as I said before, I will track everything myself. The ideas weren't the problem. It was like, once I wrote a batch of songs, let's say I wrote six songs, then I had to track them. And that was way more time consuming most of the time than it was actually writing the idea. You know, so when you're a singer, songwriter, you can sit down and, you know, look, this is just me, I, I'm not judging anyone or laying out a standard, but I can basically catch a phrase or a word or something and work around that. Come up with a silly melody, you know, and, and just kind of build it into what will turn into it. actually a song. You know? I mean, that's what songwriters do, right?

Chuck Shute: 55:03

Yeah. Well, like being objective, and you think like, Okay, well, I think this is gonna be a good song. But sometimes you guys wrong, like you think like, oh, this is like some like, you know, song you write in five or 10 minutes, this is just kind of a throwaway song, and then that becomes like the bigger hit.

Juan Croucier: 55:20

Absolutely. Oftentimes, when you go in the studio, first of all, there's the demo stage, then let's just say you're gonna do the song, then you go into the recording studio, the big studio, and everyone's gonna play on it. And you go in with high hopes, and you go in with a song X thinking, oh, yeah, that's gonna be the one. But you have songs, see over here. And as, you know, things would transpire, and you would have it, all of a sudden, the song that you just didn't see common, starts becoming, you know, this whole different thing, it just comes to life. And so in the translation in the execution, and with everyone contributing their input, songs take on a life of their own. And what you would expect to have been a hit, may end up being, you know, just an album, cut, if you will, a deep cut, as they often say, and a song that you wouldn't see coming ends up being the single, so it's a constant evolution, and, and nothing is for sure, until the album is, well, I would consider it until it's mastered, you know, and released, you know, God, so they're oftentimes that, you know, you're finishing a record, and somebody comes up with an idea that ends up, you know, turning into their biggest single, you know, there's the story of one thing, for example, pour some sugar on me. I recently heard and this is a, you know, a story that Def Leppard talked about, where they had the riff and just kind of the idea of the chorus, and they built from that in the studio. So you can go from like a riff and one line, to all of a sudden, you know, you've got, oh, now you've got a verse and a chorus. And now you add a bridge, and maybe a musical section and a solo and, you know, well, ah, right, you know, so, you know, it's, it's a compromise in writing. And when you're in a band structure, you sort of have to cooperate in what's best for not just the song, but the band in general. Right. And that often, and I'll stop, but that often can lead to other writers coming in to help. Maybe the band's having a dry spell, and they can bring in someone that will sort of spur creativity, and have them look at a different direction or, or deal with ideas in a way that maybe they hadn't done before. You know, so, you know, creativity can happen anywhere. Of course, I'd rather be writing on a Hawaiian shore than in a hotel in Detroit or, well, yeah,

Chuck Shute: 58:07

you mentioned a writing toy. Yeah, co writers, because the detonator album didn't Desmond Child co write a lot of those songs. Yes. Yeah. What was it like working with him? He's pretty brilliant, isn't it? As a songwriter?

Juan Croucier: 58:20

Oh, Jasmine is exceptionally talented, no doubt, no doubt. He's a very good writer. And it was a joy to work with him. He's a very nice person. He is very intelligent, actually, you know. So it was a pleasure to work with him. At that time, the band was at a point where a lot of things, well, maybe the best way to put it is, it was probably, you know, a good time to have taken a break. Okay. We saw the industry changing, we saw different bands kind of starting to emerge. And there was sort of a changing of the guard that was in the distance, you know, however, you know, it's oftentimes when a band is successful, there is the pressure and the need for the the machine to move forward her. So taking a break can mean that a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money. So maybe you want to wait on that break, Johnny, you know, I'm saying, yeah, so we embarked upon doing it and, you know, look, Desmond did a great job. Diane Warren did a great job on the ballad. You know, we did the best that we could at that point in time. And it was a different production for us.

Chuck Shute: 59:55

Different yet, Arthur pace it why did he do it instead of Bowhill?

Juan Croucier: 59:59

Well, Arthur, who, by the way, was a great engineer and producer, he had a good ear, you know, he would often say, let's say, you know, Desmond would have an idea, or I have an idea. And he goes, Oh, yeah, that's a good idea. You just call it right out, you know, that happened when we were doing a song called loving us a dirty job. Yeah. Well, I came up with what ended up being the chorus, okay. And I did that at a pre production rehearsal, because I felt the song needed something. And they just came to me, and Arthur was the first guy to go, that really works. Okay, so he was really talented. And a producer can really shape a record, you know, their style, the sounds they get, the way they hear things, the way they feel the arrangements to go, and so forth. There's a lot of moving parts. So it was Arthur working as a team mate with desmin, it made a great team, they were very, very good and very effective. It was a great record in, in many ways, a lot of fun. But there were a lot of changes going on. I'm not going to kid you know, you know, things happen when you have five guys, you know, going through their lives and dealing with their personal things, and, you know, the band business and, you know, are they feeling healthy? Are they tired? Do they need a break? You know, there's a lot of things that that sort of have to come together, and there's a confluence of effort that has to occur. And if it doesn't, you know, if there are certain things that are not there, you can really run into some rocks there, you know, you know, it's a, it's a rocky shore, sometimes?

Chuck Shute: 1:01:50

Well, exactly, not, like you said, sometimes you do need a break. And I mean, it's just there's too many examples of musicians dying way too young, because probably they needed a break, and they didn't take one. And so I'm glad you guys, you know, made it through that, obviously, you know, Robin passed, and that's, that's a horrible tragedy. But then, you know, the rest of the band persevered, and that's a good thing. So,

Juan Croucier: 1:02:12

it listen, you know, it's a, it's a serious business. And a lot of folks, you know, they, they don't see it coming, you know, you know, you really have to have a lot of discipline, and a lot of focus, it's very easy to have fun, and have more fun and more fun. And then you had so much fun that you find yourself in a place like I don't know, the Betty Ford Clinic, you know, because you had too much fun, you know, so there's a certain amount of discipline. And luckily, I had a very good sense of discipline. And the show when we were on the road, for example, was the most important thing, nothing else mattered. So throughout the day, everything was about preparing for the show. And in that regard, what I mean is the amount of sleep, I had, the amount of food I ate, the amount of water that I drank, everything was gearing towards that show because for me, as active as I was, and, and I am still the stage performance required a lot of energy. And if I didn't eat four to five hours before the show, three hours wasn't enough time. It had to be four to five hours, then, you know, being that digested point where I could perform, if there was a certain amount of athleticism, there are no Yeah. On stage and play and sing, you know, yeah, yeah. And you can't compromise really one for the other. You know, that's really where the skill is. So, you know, yeah. So you had to pace yourself, because, you know, you had a week, and if you had six shows out of seven days that we were right around the time that six Joe would come. You know, it was easy and understandable for some folks to phone it in, you know, so, you know, I didn't mind having a drink or, you know, going down to the hotel bar after a show and socializing and saying hi to fans, and, you know, talking to people, but there was a certain point that you needed to cut it off. Otherwise, it was gonna affect you the next day.

Chuck Shute: 1:04:35

And you just learn that like, trial and error, basically.

Juan Croucier: 1:04:39

No, I mean, that was pretty easy to figure out from, from, you know, you know, just everything that led up to it, right. You know, you know, early on when you're jamming with some unknown party band, you know, at someone's high school party, you pretty much figured out if you drank you know, a lot of Heineken or Budweiser is towards the end of the night. You probably weren't playing as well, as you did at the beginning of the valley. Right? Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 1:05:05

So you figure that out on early, whereas some bands struggled with that.

Juan Croucier: 1:05:10

No, no brainer. No brainer. So it just depending on what your priorities were, and I listen, I totally understand that it was, you know, think about this, you work all your life, you know, you spent countless hours in some garage or some rehearsal studio, perfecting the songs, and, you know, band members come and band members go. So you do all this in preparation for someday maybe getting a record deal, then you get that deal, you release a record, it goes on the air, and you even have a video that goes along with it. And you kind of feel like, wow, maybe I can celebrate a little bit now. And it's okay to celebrate. It's just that sometimes I found myself going, Okay, we're gonna have a party. But what's the party for? You know, I mean, it's great that we played in Cleveland, but we got to show in, you know, Des Moines, Iowa the next day, or what have you pick a city. And you know, I have to have, you know, my skill set, ready to go, you know, so

Chuck Shute: 1:06:20

it sounds like you were able to set limits for yourself, whereas other musicians maybe just didn't see those boundaries? And they just couldn't say no.

Juan Croucier: 1:06:29

Well, and listen, let me tell you something that often is not addressed. That is important. Musicians are often sort of, you know, it's the first time you're playing in that city, or, you know, the first night of the Tour in, in, you know, just pick a city band saying, Hey, can I get you a beer, hey, you know, let's talk and meet my buddies. And so all of a sudden, you're in the social environment, and there's no one to tell you, hey, you know, it's time to go to bed, we got an early call tomorrow, we have a flight to the next city, because the bus can't get there in time. You know. And so if you don't have anyone to tell you to, you know, to, you know, pull back a little bit, and you are the boss. So no one can really use sort of an authoritative position on you. It's very easy to fall into it.

Chuck Shute: 1:07:21

Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, like, I saw the dirt. And I saw, like, you know, that's just one example. But I think there's a lot of examples like that, where people are just, I mean, and especially if you grew up, and maybe you came from a rough childhood, or something, you didn't have that parental figure, and now you just, it's like, when kids go to college, and they just, they, you know, if they didn't have those limits set that they just go nuts when they don't have anybody to tell them what to do. Yeah,

Juan Croucier: 1:07:47

I mean, you find out, you know, you either get it or you don't, or you enjoy it, or it's, or it becomes a priority, but it's kind of like David Lee Roth once said, you know, I used to have a drug problem, but now I can afford him. You know, that's the other factor, you know, you got people that have been struggling and living hand to mouth and, you know, you know, it's not easy to eat Top Ramen for, you know, a certain amount of years. And that be the way that peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and, you know, some folks were, you know, sleeping on people's couches, you know, in the days of trying to make it in Hollywood and break out, you know, there was a lot of struggle, and there was a lot of dedication, and, you know, so I could see a cause for celebrating, while you're actually kind of working to elevate the group, so, definitely a compromise, you had to have discipline, you had to set limits, and some people could do it easier than others. So to say nothing of, you know, what would be considered serious addiction, that, you know, it's not, it becomes something that's fun, and then it becomes something you need to feel normal. And those things if you're not normal, you're a member of the group. And if you're not, okay, that's gonna affect the band out on stage. So it's complicated and it's sensitive, you know, because a lot goes into it like you know, your upbringing and you know, your your your your base, your base what you're about, you know, so yeah, a lot can can go wrong, that's for sure.

Chuck Shute: 1:09:35

Yeah, well, you a lot you've done you know, a lot went right for you guys and it's amazing career Great. boxset. Now, what are you up to now? I know you mentioned the production studio so you're producing bands. Are you still playing in an aside band or anything for fun?

Juan Croucier: 1:09:50

Look, I've been producing bands for a very long time. I started early in the mid 80s. One of the first bands that I started producing outside of My own music that I produced myself, of course. And by that I mean, you know, not just recording but sense of production, you know, was a band called love hate. So yeah, I worked with him early on Johnny love is one of my dear friends. And so I have always had a studio since very early on and, and that progresses, I told you like kind of like my refrigerator and freezer did on the road. That was part of my recording studio at home. So I basically produce many bands after rat stopped working in the early 90s. And that's how I basically earned a living. And so I am currently in my studio working, and I've been perfecting certain certain things, changing some equipment. And in preparation for my new record, I intend on starting my new record in the very near future. And I'll be releasing my EP, because it really wasn't, it came out and was called Liquid Sunday. Yeah, I

Chuck Shute: 1:11:10

was gonna ask you about now in play bass and guitar, on this one, yes,

Juan Croucier: 1:11:15

yeah. And I basically play everything, but the drums, my brother, Rick played the drums on it, and I engineered it and produced it and mixed it and so forth. I mean, I just did it myself. So the problem is, is that I had a band at the time, so I wanted it to represent the band, the music that we were going to be doing live, however, like many bands, and many musicians, you know, you start with an idea, you think it's going to work, it doesn't you double back, you've come up with something new and you move on. So it really is a solo record. So I'm changing the artwork to reflect the fact that it's a solo record. So I'll be releasing that soon in the near future. And then, you know, my recording output is going to increase. But the thing about owning up a studio is that there's a lot of things to maintain, and a lot of things that get outdated and new technology comes along. You know, of course, Pro Tools is a very popular form of the technology that has changed the recording industry in many ways. You know, so I've been making a lot of it's been a process, I repaired my console recently. And you know, it's a very large format console. So it required a lot of work. And when you're one guy doing it all, it's just very time intensive, you know, and I'm, you know, I have a family also. So my time is not unlimited, you know, and then you have a group like rat, and so forth. That takes a lot of time when, when it's working. And so I have to sort of, you know, be aware of time management, right, you know, but I am ready to go, I have some songs that I love that I'm very, very hopeful for, you know, and so, yeah, you know, to me, being an artist is multifaceted. And depending on what your skill set is, you know, you can do certain things that, you know, sort of advance your cause, you know, and so I'm really looking forward to recording my new record, and I've got a, I got a band. And, you know, I've had the band for I believe 26 or seven years are various incarnations, and, and so, you know, we are working away, and we're going to begin performing again. And so, you know, I love the industry, I love music, I love the art, you know, so, you know, for me, it's not about you know, money's important. Okay, we all need to make a living. But at a certain point, what you're doing is, is also very important, right?

Chuck Shute: 1:14:07

Absolutely, yeah, well, you have to come back or when that records out, you wanna do promotion for that. Otherwise, the box that is out now, and then each episode promoting a charity, is there a charity that you want to mention here the work with,

Juan Croucier: 1:14:19

make a wish, has done some fantastic work and I got a little story. We had just in the mid 80s, we had just finished touring with poison. Okay. And so, you know, we get off the road and I get a call from someone in my management company, going, Hey, make a wish reached out to us. And, and I thought I call you and at first I thought, Oh great. Someone you know, wants to meet me and make a wish is trying to arrange it. And so this is going to be really fantastic because I love giving back. I think it's really important to help others. and others in need. And folks that are facing, you know, difficult times. So I kind of got my hopes up. And then I got another call the next day. And the person said, Yeah, we got in touch with them again. And they're looking for a cc Deville as contact information. Oh, a shot to the eager. No problem. He receives his number. So, you know, that's all good. You know, look, CC is a great guy, I love him, you know, poisons a great band, you know, they've done so well. So proud of them. And, you know, I'm just happy that I could help out. That's, so I figured in, in memory of that, you know, it's the Make a Wish Foundation.

Chuck Shute: 1:15:51

Okay, awesome. Well, I'll put that link in the show notes along with a link to buy the rats box set, and that you have your own website that people can go on to follow you, or just, you don't have social media or your Twitter. I think not Instagram, though. No, I'm

Juan Croucier: 1:16:06

not. I'm not that active on Instagram. I've got a website, you know, one cruciate.com. I also have a website for my band, which is rats, one cruciate.com. And then, of course, I'm on Facebook, Twitter. And you know, it's a lot to keep up with right there. You know, but I try to be easily accessible. And you can find what I'm doing there. And I'm going to be posting any updates. And hopefully, we're going to have some new shows for the my solo band posted soon. So, you know, after COVID A lot of things changed, you know, and a lot of people waited and then everybody got let out of the gate. And there's a lot of, you know, bands going out, which is great. It's really great to finally be over that. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to getting back out there and hopefully coming to his town near you soon.

Chuck Shute: 1:17:01

Okay, well, if you come to Phoenix, let me know. I'll come see you. Love Phoenix. Absolutely.

Juan Croucier: 1:17:05

All right. Thanks,

Chuck Shute: 1:17:06

one. I'll talk to you later.

Juan Croucier: 1:17:07

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Chuck Shute: 1:17:10

Great stuff from one crew. Ca. Check out the new rat box set. If you're a big fan, you probably already have it. And if you can't afford it, put it on your Amazon wishlist get it for Christmas or your birthday. Great thing to add to any rock fans collection. And make sure to follow on and I on social media. You can support both of us by liking and sharing this episode on social media. And make sure to subscribe to the show wherever you watch or listen. To keep up with future episodes. I've got some great interviews coming up. I appreciate all your support. Have a great rest of your day and shoot for the moon.