Andrew Hagar

Andrew Hagar is a musician and former MMA fighter and trainer. He has a new single out now called “Systematic Minds” and more music will be out soon. We had a fascinating conversation about the music business, his path as a musician, musical styles and so much more!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:43 - MMA & Joe Rogan
0:03:45 - Opinions & Haters
0:07:20 - Music Videos & Music Business
0:10:30 - TikTok & Social Media
0:19:10 - Touring & Doing Live Shows
0:26:35 - Standing Out in Music
0:28:45 - Blackhatting & Boosting Streams
0:33:55 - Musical Styles
0:45:25 - Tour & Album Plans
0:50:15 - Song "Cold Life Karma"
0:52:20 - Expressing Emotions Through Songs
0:53:35 - Family Legacy TV Show
0:54:50 - Metal DJ & Grim Reaper
0:56:15 - Rock Legends Cruise & Live Band
0:58:16 - American Foundation for Suicide Prevention
1:00:55 - Outro

Andrew Hagar website:
https://www.andrewhagar.com/

American Foundation for Suicide Prevention website:
https://afsp.org/

Chuck Shute website:
https://chuckshute.com/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

All right Andrew Hegar is my guest today he is a singer songwriter and guitarist and former underground MMA fighter trainer. He's now focused mostly on his music is a new single out called systematic mines and more is going to be released along with some live shows lined up so this was a really fun chat. I previously met his brother Aaron and he was really cool dude and had great stories and Andrew was the same just a cool dude with an easy to chat with you guys are gonna love this stick around know Yeah, so yeah, the jujitsu and stuff. So the celebrities So did you ever come across Rogan then because he's really into that he's into that world?

Andrew Hagar: 0:51

Yeah, we Okay, so back in the day, especially, there was definitely like a, like a ganged up squad mentality to Brazilian Jujitsu, especially, because like the sport really didn't start exploding until like the mid to late 2000s. Like after the Ultimate Fighter had already done that. And like kind of started to gain some popularity on Spike TV and stuff. And then obviously now, you know, the UFC is like a staple on ESPN. But it wasn't always like that. And when I was coming up in the sport, there was a like, very tribal mentality to all the different gyms and all the different jujitsu schools. A lot of the jujitsu guys who came over from Brazil, brought with them like a kind of weird beef, like. So yeah, I didn't train at 10th planet, which was where Rogan was training, I knew some of the guys there. I've like met a lot of those guys and have subsequently trained with a lot of them now that you know, the communities a little closer together, but I never encountered Rogen. And it's funny because like one of my best friends and training partners coming up was really good friends with him. And he would come train stand up with me and do MMA at the school that we trained at. And then he would go train jujitsu specifically attend planet with with Rogan, and he Bravo and all those guys. So I was like, one degree away, and I never met him. And it's a shame because like, he's, I mean, obviously, he's been under fire a lot in the media, but I think he's a really interesting guy. Like, again, one of these people that's like, kind of a classic renaissance man does so many interesting things. And I would love to just have a conversation with him, you know, not even on a podcast about, you know, just his path, you know?

Chuck Shute: 2:33

Yeah, I find it fascinating. I love his podcasts. I mean, I don't listen to every episode, but some of them because he has such interesting guests, like scientists and doctors, and then also comedians and some UTMC musicians. And I just listened to like, the Pauly Shore one that was really an

Andrew Hagar: 2:49

eye on that one, too. Because being a, you know, like somewhat of a 90s kid like, yeah, I grew up on Pauly Shore movies. And it was really interesting to hear what he had to say about same thing. Like, that's a guy that's accomplished so much that kind of just the world forgot. And now he's finding, you know, more relevancy through like, jam in the van and stuff. But yeah, it's it's interesting. I like a lot of his guests. And again, people pile on a lot of criticism to that guy, especially over the whole, you know, whatever, shall not be named thing. But but you know, just in general, I do find a lot of his guests incredibly fascinating.

Chuck Shute: 3:24

Yeah, well, I feel like the people that don't like him, don't listen to him on the show, because he's this like, he's this like, all right wing guy. And he'll he'll tell you on the podcast is like, I've never voted Republican. He's like, I'm liberal. And so that's why it's so funny that people are like, Oh, he's, he's right wing. I don't like it. I'm like, he's actually not right wing. And

Andrew Hagar: 3:45

it just people, you know, listening to the media, and formulating an opinion based on someone else's opinion, as opposed to actually taking the time to look at what's being said and formulate their own opinion. And that's a massive problem in the world today, in general, that's a problem I've had to deal with, too. There's plenty of people who love me without ever knowing anything about me or my music, and plenty people that hate me without knowing anything about me and my music. And both of those kinds of people are all up in my DMs on social media, and it kills me. Wow. So

Chuck Shute: 4:13

we might have to, I understand why people would like it, because it's like, they want to get into that world or whatever. But why would people hate you?

Andrew Hagar: 4:20

Oh, because of the whole Van Halen feud. I mean, I have people who are massive daily rock fans, or people who think that you know, my father ruined Van Halen, that just direct all that ire towards me. Like I've blocked a lot of those people now, so it's not as bad as it used to be. But for a long time, I would get crazy messages every day, many messages every day. Usually going into my you know, whatever that other folder is and Instagram for people you don't follow or people that don't follow you. But yeah, it's just It blows my mind that people have that kind of time and want to spend that kind of emotional energy, just trying to completely This random stranger who may or may not ever see what they're saying this is.

Chuck Shute: 5:06

Yeah, no, I can't imagine. I mean, I get a little bit of trolling here and there, most people just don't give a shit what I do, but so I can't imagine to be in your shoes, and you can't help who your family is. So it's like, that's what I don't understand. Why would they blame you? I mean, that has nothing to do with you. That's really

Andrew Hagar: 5:22

nothing to do with me. But that's what I'm saying people in general, I just don't know that a lot of these folks who interact on social media have much better to do with their time, and they spend it being overwhelmingly negative. And it's unfortunate, you know, it's like, I people get mad at stuff like that, like, my friend, Trevor Luthor deals with a little bit of that, too. Like, there's people that hate on him, for, you know, reasons, unbeknownst to him that have nothing to do with him. And, you know, it's like one of these things where you can waste your own emotional energy getting mad at those people, but it's like, I just feel sorry for him. You know, it's like, again, like, I hope you get a hobby or something, like makes you happy. So you don't have to do this, you

Chuck Shute: 6:01

know? Yeah. Do you ever respond to them? Or you just block and ignore?

Andrew Hagar: 6:05

No, I just usually block and ignore. I mean, unless somebody takes the time to put together an actually well thought out like constructive form of criticism. Like I see that a little bit on my Youtube, like, I get, you know, I don't post much, I only post really videos and lyric videos and stuff. But um, you know, there's always someone in the comments section that has like something really stupid to say, but then there's the people who have something negative to say, but it's like, well thought out and constructive. And I'm like, Okay, well, those are the kinds of people I will respond to. Because, again, your haters are just secretly your biggest fans, right? There are people that are watching your every move, and they're one interact away from actually becoming a fan. So

Chuck Shute: 6:43

right, yeah, there's a thin line between love and hate. There's the opposite of love and hate is not you know, it's not love and hate. It's like love and hate to thinline. The opposite of both is apathy. Like where you don't care?

Andrew Hagar: 6:54

Exactly. And there's a lot of that a lot of people don't don't give a flying, you know, F about me, which is fine. I like that, too. So that's an opportunity to maybe do something to make them start carrying, you know what I mean, it's an easier battle than taking someone who really hates you sometimes. Because again, that's just, it's all misconstrued. I'd rather work from stuff than negative numbers.

Chuck Shute: 7:17

Absolutely, no, yeah, I've watched some of the stuff on on YouTube. Yeah, you only have like four videos or something, though, I think, I don't think you have a you have a video yet for the new single symptomatic, mais

Andrew Hagar: 7:29

a lyric video, you know, visualizer like, one of the things about the modern day music industry is again, like, it's very expensive to make a video and there's pretty much no return on it, like, a lot of publications to that you would use to get maybe a little bit more traction, but in my experience, they don't even really help much. Like, if you spend whatever, 1015 20 Some people spend $100,000 on a music video, which just blows my mind. And then you know, they get a write up in some, let's say, Rolling Stone. And it's like, you might get an extra couple 1000 views off that. And that's it, it really doesn't move the needle in any meaningful way. And there's really no return unless you already have a big YouTube and you're monetizing the videos on YouTube, which again, I haven't really done much on YouTube. I've released a few music videos, from my previous projects that weren't self titled. And they're on different YouTube channels. But yeah, I don't know, man, it's not really worth it these days, the next release will have a proper music video, just because it's something a bit more substantial. But I'm not gonna like, you know, blow a ton of money on that for like I said, zero return.

Chuck Shute: 8:34

That's interesting. Yeah, because I see so many bands with music videos that are perfect. I mean, they look to me to be professionally shot. And I'm wondering, are they going in debt making that video? Or is it a thing where like, people help out? Like, I know, like, some of the bands that I love from the 80s and stuff around like frontier records, which is a smaller label. But yeah, make good videos. And so I mean, to me, it looks professional. I'm like, I wonder, are they making money off this? are they losing money? I don't know.

Andrew Hagar: 9:00

Well, I mean, a lot of times when you're working with a label to they're giving you money to make a music video. And then the label also will have, you know, connections sometimes to different directors, different editors and stuff, and they'll put it all together themselves and bank roll it. And then that's a recoupable cost for you. So when you go on tour, and you're making money, they're basically garnishing your wages that you would make on tour, because you have a recoupable cost. And a lot of that stuff is contractual, I'm sure you and everybody else has heard about like 360 deals where they're taking a small or sometimes very large piece of everything you do, including your own merch that might exist outside of the label scope. And there's a lot of stuff right now, in the industry that is just incredibly predatory. That's why I haven't signed a deal yet. I've had a bunch of different record deals, especially when I was doing the more folk and Americana project stuff. And, you know, I had some like sync deals on deck three labels and other things, but they wanted pretty much all of my publishing, and they weren't willing to Give me any meaningful traction. It's like again, like, at this point, I think it would be better to do just something like a distribution deal where I could get out to like bigger channels and you know, get on maybe some, some more efficacious playlists and stuff like that just be put in front of more people. But it's very challenging right now for an independent artists. And especially for people that write their own music and aren't doing just, whatever kind of copycat trend chasing stuff because that really seems to be all the labels want to mess with right now, especially people that are developing on tick tock, like, I haven't taken a lot of time to actually carve out a niche on tick tock, and that's to my own, you know, misfortune, like, pretty much all the labels I've talked to, all they want is just to see traction on tick tock, because that's one of the only things out there that's actually going to provide like a one to one, you know, upgrade to the rest of your stuff, like people on Instagram, you know, I have whatever I think 20 over 22,000 legit followers that I've never paid for boosted or whatever, on Instagram. And when I make a post about my music, or anything that links off of the platform, I'm lucky if 5% of my user base sees it. And that's just a huge problem with social media in general right now is everyone's trying to get you to stay on the platform consume their content, if you're an artist or any type of creator that's got things off the platform. The only one that really doesn't completely crush your natural engagement is tick tock but tick tock is a different animals, you know, especially for people like me that don't really want to share that much of their personal life. You know, it's a little more difficult to make content for that every day.

Chuck Shute: 11:40

Yeah, well, but you can post the you can post clips of the song or can you could you post a full song I guess?

Andrew Hagar: 11:45

I mean, yeah, I think they they recently expanded their videos to include longer form stuff not really long, but long enough for a song but again, I've seen the same problem on Tik Tok. Like I said, I don't have a huge following on tick tock, but when I, you know, do a whatever I do out with another video, or like, take another video and make some content with that, like that does infinitely better than when I post something to, you know, to my music again, like it seems like tick tock is kind of squashing the engagement on music based stuff, which is interesting, because I don't see that happening for every artist on there. But again, I'm not super fluent in tic tock and algorithm on there. Not that I'm fluent on Instagram, but I'm just, you know, more used to it, I guess, in understanding how it works.

Chuck Shute: 12:33

I liked Instagram too. And then it seemed you're right though. It's like the same thing where you post something, and my posts like went down like but like, I would post something before it get, you know, like, not a lot for me. But like if I got like 100 likes, that was a lot and now it's like, there's a lot of times I'll post them to get like 20 likes, I'm like what is going on? And it's the same thing on Tik Tok, Instagram and YouTube. Like I'll post a clip on my podcast, and some sort of blow up on YouTube and sometimes Tik Tok rarely doesn't blow up on Instagram, though.

Andrew Hagar: 13:00

Yeah, that's really interesting. I think what happened recently with meta, the fact that they started allowing people to like pay for verification badges, yeah, versus that are starting to come with that, too. Like, I got my checkmark before all that started happening. But I looked into what they were kind of trying to push. Because I was just interested based on what happened with Twitter, like on Twitter, it was a completely unmitigated disaster. And people were like, posing as real people buying a blue check, which was very easy to get and then using it to kind of, you know, dismantle whatever it was this other real person or account is trying to build. And I was just like, oh, man, this is probably going to be the same thing on Instagram. Thankfully, it doesn't seem like that started yet. But I have seen with their like their business suite of the accounts, you can, you can purchase the blue check for they offer like expanded engagement and support team response and all this stuff. And it's like, I get like a ton of fake accounts every week that are trying to be me, or someone in my family, which blows me away because it's like, Who the hell am I like, Why the hell are you going to poses me like what and solicit try solicit people for nudes or for money? Or like, What the hell is that it's crazy. But I deal with that all the time. And support never does anything I have, you know, I was blown out of my story and have multiple people report the account, you know, tons of people are reporting it, but then the, the support team doesn't do anything about it, and these accounts don't get banned. So I guess buying into this new program they're doing is supposed to, like, you know, make your your support requests more visible, I guess, which, if that's true, maybe that's the move, I don't know. But the way it stands now, it's basically just an ad driven attention economy. So like, if you want to get more attention on your stuff, and you want your normal natural engagement, you now have to essentially boost the post and pay them for it. And they make the all the ad tools very, unnecessarily obtuse. Like I used to do marketing for We're living in data analytics. So I'm very familiar with all this stuff. And I can't, I couldn't tell you the click through rate on one of my ads if I wanted to. And that's arguably one of the most important pieces of data. But they make it so difficult to get that information. It just blows me away.

Chuck Shute: 15:15

Like how many people are actually clicking on the link with the ad, like if you do an ad for a song, hey, gentleman's new single, you can't tell how many people actually click the link to download the song.

Andrew Hagar: 15:26

It's it's more difficult to get that information than it needs to be. Like, I would have to go into Facebook and go through several layers of you know, analytics, several different pages, it's like that should be the thing they're displaying right at the front of the top, because that's the most important thing is the conversion, right? Like when you're talking about any kind of sales funnel. So again, we're getting into like the nitty gritty of what I find fascinating,

Chuck Shute: 15:47

though, because I deal with the same thing with the podcast. It's like, I'm trying to promote a podcast and stand out. Every Harry Dick and Jane has a frickin podcast. So it's like, how do you stand out? And so yeah, I used to, I don't even really do that stuff anymore. I used to when I first started though, I would boost posts on more on Facebook, a little bit on Instagram. I was like, I don't think this is helping. I don't think this is doing anything like that. Maybe Maybe I'm getting more Facebook followers or whatever. It's like, I don't think it really means anything. Because then when you post something like you said, you're lucky if 5% of your followers even see it? Oh, yeah, let alone like like it or comment and interact with it. So I'm like, I'm just gonna focus on making content and hopefully people will find it. I don't know.

Andrew Hagar: 16:31

Yeah, and that's pretty much all you can do these days is just do your best to be authentic and present something that means something to you and hope other people see it and it moves them. You know, that's, I don't know. I mean, you see a lot of up and coming artists that are with labels or have development deals too, that have like, you know, excessively large followings, but then you look at their actual numbers. And it's like, if you have 50,000 followers, and you're making a post, and it's getting like four comments, like that's, it's pretty easy to see what's there. Yeah, there's, there's so, so much like smoke and mirror action going on in the music industry. And in the greater entertainment industry, right now, it's very difficult for someone that's not literate like that, to see what's real and what's not. But again, that's probably just an extension of how it's always been, whether we're talking about like, you know, pay to play, like Clear Channel stuff, or, you know, even like, the history of like, buy on tours, you know, and how a lot of bands that are being pushed by labels, you basically just have to fake it till you make it and they're spending an excessive amount of money, making these guys look a lot more popular than they actually our that stuff still goes on very clearly all the time. So it's it's a battle for attention. And like, you know, people that look cooler are clearly going to get more attention, I guess, especially the way that our social media algorithms kind of, you know, the behaviors is predicated on people to generate more attention, I guess.

Chuck Shute: 18:02

Yeah. Well, I do think some of that stuff can help get you noticed, but I feel like it doesn't have a lot of staying power. Like, if you buy a tour. It's like, okay, everyone knows your name for that tour. But unless you do that every tour, which I think is expensive, like eventually people forget about you, if you didn't make an impression, which if usually if you're buying on, it seems to me a lot of those bands. They did they weren't good enough to get the spot. They're not that great. They don't have the same power.

Andrew Hagar: 18:29

Right? Exactly. And you see that a lot with what's happening with Tiktok bass music and stuff too. Like there's plenty of artists who broke via Tik Tok that have one or two big singles because it was popular on Tik Tok, and then the rest of their catalogue is just, you know, DOA. So, it's interesting. For an independent artist, it's difficult to know kind of what to focus on. And I think really, the only answer is just to authentically Be yourself, present yourself the way that you are, make music that's meaningful to you. And if other people, you know, invest their time and emotional energy into checking it out, that's great. If not, well, at least you did something that matters to you. Because that's really all accounts, you know,

Chuck Shute: 19:09

yeah. Well, I think to like doing podcasts and doing some do it like just working hard, like doing shows, like I know, I talk to so many musicians who they don't tour or they don't do shows, they'll put on an album, and they'll want to come on my podcast and talk about and then I'm like, Okay, so like, are you doing a tour? Are you in show? Wow. Yeah, like one show. It's like what, like, You got to get out there and promote it like podcasts, but also like shows, you got to go to towns and like, you know, play small venues and make fans of the people I think in real life. I think that, in some ways works better than social media, like actually meeting people face to face, they're gonna remember it.

Andrew Hagar: 19:42

I completely agree. But again, that comes back to costs. Like if you have a label or an independent investor, that's helping you with all these costs. It's more expensive to tour now than it's ever been before. And for independent artists that aren't making money via Spotify, or aren't making money off of a sync deal. You It's like, you have to be pretty much independently wealthy to go do this or you have to be, you know, it's like one thing as a solo artist, if you're in a band with like four people, you're all sharing publishing on songs, you're young, you don't have a lot of other things going on in your life. Yeah, everybody can, you know, cram in the station wagon and go out and just hit the road and live on, you know, ramen and Dollar Store vegetables, you know what I mean? Like, if that stuff works, yeah. And I do think that there's something to be said, for going out and promoting music, the old fashioned way, just hitting the road, you know, pounding the streets, like, that's great. I love that. But again, it's very cost prohibitive. These days, even gas, whether we're talking about plane tickets, like, Oh, you want to do an East Coast tour, you live in California, cool, you either schlep your gear all the way across America, in a van, which is not easy. It's not glamorous, you know, or you fly out there, you rent instruments, you rent a van, you do all this stuff, it just everything adds up. And without a label, providing tour support, it can be really, really difficult for some of these smaller bands to do any meaningful tours outside of like, their immediate area, you know, and that's probably why you don't see more people, you know, playing more meaningful stuff than just like one or two off tours and shows like, it's just really hard now, you know, very difficult.

Chuck Shute: 21:20

What about if you if you team up with other bands that are, you know, in a similar situation, like if if you got like three or four or five of you guys together? I mean, you're saying like, piling the station wagon with, with a band, but what if it's like five bands, does that make it even a little bit more cost effective?

Andrew Hagar: 21:38

I mean, if, let's say, let's just posit something. So let's say mean to other bands, that's what maybe generally for 812 people, plus, you know, a driver, some sort of tour manager, production guy guy can do it all, you know, that's at that stage, you kind of need a tour manager who also is going to, you know, be working sound or front of house, who's going to be, you know, going to talk to the promoter after the show to get your money and all that stuff. Like, you can certainly do it all yourself, but it's very difficult when you're out there. I've been in those situations before, but let's see, you got 12 people, it's like, you're going to you're going to rent like a massive Sprinter van, have all 12 people crammed inside, get a you know, get a trailer, like tour with everybody using the same equipment, you can certainly do that. But again, like it's gonna be really difficult unless your merch game is incredible to even break even on that tour, just by the kinds of guarantees you're gonna get from promoters, especially at that level, it's just again, like, I don't think a lot of people really understand and realize how difficult it is to tour. And the the more you're stretching it, the more difficult it is for the bands, which again, touring is not easy, no matter what, even if you're in a tour bus. It's still very challenging to get up there. And do you know the best you can every night? If you're not sleeping? If nutrition is not good? People do it. And it's great. And like I've been there as well, like I've you know, I've toured the bus, I've toured in the van, I've toured in my friggin Subaru, you know, it's like, I was playing whatever, over 100 shows a year for years before the pandemic. And since then, the costs have only gone up, the barriers to entry have only gone up, the spots that are available have shrunk. It's just, it's a very different animal than I think a lot of people realize. And that's why maybe some of your favorite independent artists don't get out and tour much, you know, now

Chuck Shute: 23:30

it makes sense. You're right. I mean, it is it is very difficult. I know another thing that some people do, is they'll just do like acoustic to them with an acoustic guitar that

Andrew Hagar: 23:43

I was playing whatever 100 shows a year with either just me acoustic guitar harmonica, sometimes a tambourine on my foot. And that started bringing out a guitar player with me and we would do do acoustic stuff. And that wasn't the style of music. You know, I did like kind of a folk rock EP, it was like a psychedelic folk rock EP, the SLS EP and I had my buddy Scott come out with me to tour that it's like, we didn't write the songs acoustically, you know, to be performed acoustically. But again, I couldn't afford to put a band together, pay them and then go out on tour and, and have all of that stuff. So I took what I could get, which meant me and Scott were driving around and my Subaru, different ships and stuff. And we took it all the way from, you know, Northern California to the bottom end of the Gulf of Mexico and stuff to play festivals. And I mean, we've, you know, I put a lot of miles on my own car, just trying to get it done. But again, like thankfully, I had a merch company at the time and we were selling shirts and so I was able to make a little bit of money on top of what we were doing. But all of that was by keeping our cost down just doing a two person acoustic show. I didn't need to bring a front of house guy you know we were going to collect after the show ourselves and dealing with all that stuff ourselves. We didn't have a tour manager we didn't have a product Should manager we'd have anything. So, you know, it's it's a, it's a different kind of thing that a lot of people expect. It's not glamorous at all.

Chuck Shute: 25:08

Oh, yeah, it's crazy. I just saw I just went to a show and I drove to Vegas, because I'm a big fan of ugly kid Joe there were like that 90s Man, you know. And they had Fonzie with them, which is like Chris Jericho. And then pistols at dawn opens was three bands. And the tickets were like 20 bucks, which was insanely cheap to me. But I bought a hat, a t shirt and a poster. And so I think I helped out, I think I did my part that's meaningful.

Andrew Hagar: 25:34

And that's what I'm saying. If you really want to support an artists, like yeah, go to their Bandcamp go to their show and get some merch, like, do things that are going to actually put a little bit money in their pocket. So you know, whether they're getting some lunch at Lowe's or something, you know what I mean? Like our loves, you know, like something, some truckstop somewhere, like, it all makes a difference, when you're actually putting money in the band's pocket, like going and streaming their song on Spotify is great, too, obviously, because that's a bigger part of the whole, you know, interaction. But that's not going to really do it for an artist, you know, if I get whatever 100,000 streams, it's like, I'm lucky to make whatever 1000 bucks if that I probably make five 600 bucks off that which is seemingly a lot more than most people are getting these days, like stream wise, but money wise, it's like I couldn't even pay my rent, you know. But then again, I live in California. So maybe that's my bed.

Chuck Shute: 26:30

Most expensive places in the world, maybe New York, London, I don't know. But yeah, it seems like bands have to get more creative these days. I mean, it's not like back in the 80s. And 90s. It was like you put out an album, you to or you sell some T shirts. And it was just every band did that now you're seeing like, bands coming out with like, coffee and hot sauce and like meet and greets, and like doing TV shows and like all this crazy stuff. Because you kind of have to. And then some also musicians are just, they're in like 30 bands. That's another thing that you got, okay, well, I can't this one man is going to pay the bills. So I gotta be in all these other projects and cover bands and tribute bands and side projects and guest appearances.

Andrew Hagar: 27:09

Yeah, challenging. But like, at the end of the day, the thing that should be the most important when we're talking about music is the music. And, you know, this has been something that's stuck with me for a long time, even in the days of MTV, take the music was important. But they were starting to make people into like larger than life personalities. And those are the kinds of people that get over, they get pushed by labels and pushed by what are now like the legacy media organizations or whatnot. And again, like everything you're talking about is cool. Like, that's great if people have you know, different outside the box merch, and people have TV shows. That's, that's really interesting. But at the end of the day, they're musicians, shouldn't they just get out and play the music? You know? Yeah, it's

Chuck Shute: 27:53

just so competitive. Yeah. So like, how do you because he used to be the record labels, not everybody can have an album and stuff. So the record labels got to pick and choose? Well, we think this guy's the best. So we're giving him a deal and all. And now I think the advantages is that anybody can get a deal, which in a way is good, because there's a lot of artists that are really talented, and we wouldn't know what's out.

Andrew Hagar: 28:16

So I would disagree with you, it's harder to get a deal than ever. And a lot of times the people who are getting anybody

Chuck Shute: 28:21

can No, not sorry, sorry, not gonna deal. But anybody can put out music, upload to Spotify. And so if it's really good, maybe it takes off, whereas before you pretty much had to have a record label to get noticed. Yeah,

Andrew Hagar: 28:34

definitely. And now it's, again, I think you still kind of have to have some sort of advantage, whether it's a label, or being massively independently wealthy, and being able to put a ton of money behind internet marketing, to get noticed, like, people think that a lot of these people that are blowing up on social media that it's happening by accident, but it's not, it's very strategic. And again, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors that goes into it. They're, you know, they're boosting, they're using third party software. Some of them are like black Hattingh to make it look like they have more engagement, more followers, and they actually do like

Chuck Shute: 29:10

black Hattingh.

Andrew Hagar: 29:12

You can go to like a third party site on the internet to essentially have people like, a lot of labels do this. People don't know about this stuff. But there's a lot of labels that will get phone farms to juice up major artists streams. So like let's say someone, I'm just again, I'm not saying she did this, I'm just using this as an example. Let's say someone big like Beyonce or an emerging artists like the Kilroy is acquired by a label and they get a distribution deal and they say, Okay, we're gonna guarantee you a certain amount of streams a certain amount of traction, there's really no way even using their national reach to guarantee that you're going to get a certain number. So what they do is they pay a third party individual third party site to go in and use a VPN Then to get streams. So they can guarantee a certain number of streams for this person so they don't lose out on all this money from a digital distribution deal or from a sync deal. Or let's say you want to blow somebody up and make it look like they have a huge following. They've been doing this for years. And it's very similar to what they used to do in the days of radio, where they would pay for spins on radio stations, so that they could shard and then people would make money. It's just, it's a tale as old as time in the entertainment industry. But this stuff happens more than people realize. And a lot of your favorite massive artists, probably anywhere between 30 and 50% of their streams are completely washed. You know. That's crazy. I

Chuck Shute: 30:41

do remember seeing some clip of some rapper, I don't know who it was. But yeah, he was showing, they had all these phones, like lined up plugins for me and the song on repeat, I was like, it's dirty, like, but yeah, you're going on forever,

Andrew Hagar: 30:55

check it out, this is something that they can do as well, like, say, you're getting ready to go on tour in Europe, and you don't have much of a fan base, say you're going to somewhere like Stockholm, Sweden, use a VPN to source all of those things. All of those little phones that are on the Spotify family plan, you make it look like they're in the same household and Sweden, you put your song in a playlist with other artists who you want to be mentioned in the same kind of keyword searches with. And then you can essentially target a whole demographic and build a whole demographic for yourself in the foreign country, very easy. Spotify has been cracking down on the VPN stuff over the last few years, just like Netflix did. But people still do this. And people are very sophisticated and finding ways around this now. So a lot of artists have done this. There's two guys, I think I forget what country they're from, but two guys in Eastern Europe, who made a bunch of like, minute minute half long songs that were just like garbled instrumental, random music, and they used kind of situation setup like this, to make themselves over a million dollars, because they streamed each song like, whatever, 100 million times. And I to this day, I don't know if there's been any legal action taken against those guys. Obviously, their music was taken down. But through their publishing entity, they still made money on the songs. You can't do that kind of thing anymore. This was maybe eight or nine years ago when this happened. But again, the amount of manipulation going on behind the scenes with streaming services just blows blows my mind. And I don't think most people are even aware of that.

Chuck Shute: 32:28

No, I think it happens in the podcast world too, because I swear there's some podcasts where I'm like, I look and I'm like, Hey, we had the same guest on your episode got like, you know, 50,000 views, and mine got like 500. And I'm like, and this is not the host is not a famous person or anything. It's like it's very suspicious. So yeah.

Andrew Hagar: 32:50

Yeah, well, it's, like I said, it's fairly easy. The hardest thing to do, one of the hardest things historically, is to fake it on YouTube, YouTube's algorithm for detecting those things is much more sophisticated than some of the other ones. They're starting to catch up. But you know, where there's a will there's a way and people are always gonna find a way to game the system. That's just how it is whether you're talking about steroid use in professional sports, or watching streams on Spotify, like this stuff happens. And that's, that's how people get over. That's unfortunate, but that's the truth.

Chuck Shute: 33:17

So do you feel like you can just you just have, it makes you rise to the occasion and makes you create better music that you feel like stands out?

Andrew Hagar: 33:27

Sure. I mean, like, at the end of the day, for me, the music has to be the thing, because you can pay all this extra money to, you know, get more attention heaped onto you. But if the product itself isn't good, people aren't gonna stick around, people aren't gonna care, you're gonna get more negative attention. So, yeah, I mean, like, I've been on a journey to be a better musician and a better songwriter, since I started, you know, and I, I really started playing music and writing songs in like, 2012 I had played music before that and I had written stuff before that, but I started taking it much more serious and 2012 and 2016 was the year when I really like started touring, and started putting together stuff to form like a body of work. And ever since then, I've started releasing, you know, not really consistently but I started releasing music and I've only in the last few years started releasing music more consistently and under my own name because I think finally after all those years of working and developing myself as a songwriter I'm comfortable now releasing this stuff under my own name and having it be you know, a measure of of who I am as an artist really

Chuck Shute: 34:37

well what what was it called before what was the name you have released?

Andrew Hagar: 34:41

Different projects there's released I think like four EPS under different names that one of them the last one before I started doing this stuff with Trev was SOS I had a project in between never came out because it was supposed to come out right around the time when When that new COVID expansion drops, you feel me so I had a, I had a South by Southwest spot I had a, you know, limited Western European tour with like a, you know, a single debut show in London I had all this stuff that was more of like an indie rock project, but I believe I don't think I'll ever release most of those songs because they're not really congruent with what I'm doing right now. Maybe somewhere down the line, I'll release like a demos collection or something of that, because I have like a pretty much a whole record almost done. But yeah, I got tied up with a label that wasn't really the right move. And yeah, it just didn't work out. So but this stuff happens a lot. I think if you talk to any artists that's been around for a while, they probably have a really large body of work that most people will never hear that maybe they intended for people to hear at one time. So

Chuck Shute: 35:52

ya know, I just had Kenny Olsen. He's a kid rocks guitarist on and I had the singer. I don't know if you remember there was an Aerosmith tribute band called Aerosmith. And the singer Chris Van doll. He looks just like Steven Tyler. But an album with Kenny Olson. Kenny Olson left Kid Rock to do this album was called pack of wolves. And Chris was talking to you. It's like amazing. I was asking Kenny about it. And he's like, yeah, it's not out like you can't hear it. I'm like, I want to hear it. It sounds like it would be really cool. So. But yeah, there's a lot of stories like that,

Andrew Hagar: 36:24

you know, I have, I had two songs that were up for sync that were both part of like the kind of indie folk indie rock project. And again, COVID just kind of smashed all my hopes for doing that. But those are to this day, two of the most requested songs that I get from people when like, you know, managers are hitting me up, or people hear this stuff through the grapevine. And they're like, hey, whatever happened to this song? Did you ever record it? And I'm like, Yeah, I did. But I mean, I don't know how people would react to me, releasing like a, you know, an acoustic folk ballad, that's like, more like something you hear from Phoebe Bridgers than like what I'm doing right now, you know what I mean? It's like, there's not really any kind of overlap musically. But, you know, who knows, man, if people are really interested in hearing some of that stuff. And you know, you've built like a really big fan base that's diverse, I don't really see the harm in releasing those kinds of things. It's just, it comes down again, like if you're working with a label, it might be a little more difficult because they want everything kind of to tow a certain line. Whereas as an independent artists, you can pretty much do whatever you want. But if you're an independent artist trying to get with a label, or some other type of situation where the really chews you up, then you kind of have to play that game a little bit and keep everything kind of between the lines, you know?

Chuck Shute: 37:45

Yeah, no, I think yeah, I just speak as a fan I would say I like when artists do different stuff, like I know might not be the most popular but Guns and Roses the user illusions I love that shit. And they have like Acoustic Singer Songwriter stuff. And then they have like the my old song that was like synth Nine Inch Nails stuff and have heavy and ballads. I love the mix. I love the eclectic stuff personally. But I understand what you're saying some sometimes management label says no, it's all got to be the same.

Andrew Hagar: 38:13

Yeah, right. I wish that people would just let artists be artists, because no artists wants to be put into a box and make the same record over and over, you talk to 100 different artists, 90 of them are going to be like, Yeah, I just really don't want to make the same record over and over. You might get 10 If you're lucky. They're like, Yeah, I mean, we made a lot of money on that record, I'll just keep making it over and over, that's fine.

Chuck Shute: 38:33

That's usually too that's usually like the drummer or the bass player, somebody that's just like rhythm guitar guy that's just kind of letting them do their thing. And they're a part of it. But yeah, the person actually creating it. Usually they don't want to keep creating the same thing. So

Andrew Hagar: 38:46

no, you're you're you're constantly evolving as an artist. And as a person. It's like, what you like five years ago is probably vastly different than what you like now. And especially as you're writing and creating and getting better at what you're doing, it's always going to be changing. So I like that too though. I like seeing an artist that you kind of have learned what to expect from come out with something that just completely changes your opinion of what they're, they're capable of doing. I love that kind of stuff. Like one of my favorite modern bands. For a long time now has been king gizzard and the lizard wizard because every single record they put out is completely different and it's all really good on its own. But it's disappointing for fans that get in on one record and they're like expecting Oh like that was a great thrash metal record. And then the next record is like an electronic weird cynthy record and they're like What the hell is this? Like? It's not what I signed up for, you know, off the

Chuck Shute: 39:40

check them out. What's it called, again? King what

Andrew Hagar: 39:41

gizzard and lizard wizard. Yeah, they're, they're pretty much like a staple in the kind of psych world right now. But they have so many different I think they have like 15 or 16 studio albums at this point and every one of them is very different. They all have kind of the same gizzard feel You know what I mean? But yeah, they're they're a great psych rock band out of Australia.

Chuck Shute: 40:04

Okay, yeah. What else are you listening to? Because the stuff you're releasing it has a kind of more modern rock feel that but it's also you said like psychedelic, a little bit garage rock or stone or rock, but I think it's, it's more melodic, I think,

Andrew Hagar: 40:17

yeah, it's more melodic than that. I'm just talking about like, what I what I was doing before I had more of like a garage. Yeah. With my good friend, Trevor William church, who's big in the underground metal scene with his band haunt. But, um, no, I mean, like, in general, the stuff I listened to, I listened to a lot of garage, a lot of psych music, a lot of folk. And for the most part, I mean, like, anything. That's really like, I like songs. A lot of the modern music industry is obsessed with. Hey, I'm doing an interview man. Who is it? 15 minutes. Somebody? I'm at the studio right now. Love you, too. I'll see you soon. I'm sorry. But yeah, that was random. But no, anyways, I really like songs. Most of the modern music industry is like, you know, like vibes. And it's like, cool. It's great. It's great vibe. But like, what's up with the song? Like, would you write it on? Do you write it on guitars? You write it on keyboard? Like you write it on saxophone? Can you sit there and play it for me and sing it just by yourself? You know what I mean? Like, that's really what it comes down to. And I really appreciate it when it's when it's an actual song. And not just like 15 people that sat in a room together. And like, like, wrote something, you know what I mean? Because that's what a lot of modern pop music is about. And it's like, if it's got, you know, 10 different writers on it. It's like, what are we? What are we doing here? Guys? You know, on Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 41:50

isn't it a lot of that stuff written by the same people? Yeah,

Andrew Hagar: 41:54

the same Writing teams, I used to be before the pandemic started, I had started to kind of like, carve out a niche for myself in the songwriting community as a lyrics guy. And so I'd be in a room with, you know, three or four other people on artists would come in, you'd have a conversation with the artist, almost like a therapy session and talk to them about like, what they're doing, what they're working on, what they're going through in their life. And then you'd be like, okay, cool. That's a cool idea. And then you take, like, a little idea, come up with like, a melodic hook, fit some lyrics in there. And then just like, you know, whittle it down until it's till it's something else. And I think there is a magic to that as well. But I just, I vastly prefer. See, like, look, take somebody like Elliott Smith, everybody loves him. Of course, everybody. That's a songwriter loves Elliott Smith. Elliott Smith didn't sit there in a room with 15 people, he sat in a room by himself, probably just sad as shit and wrote a bunch of beautiful lyrics that you relate, because they're coming from his heart. You know, I appreciate artists like that, more than people that have been put together by like, you know, the, whatever, the Hollywood machine or the music industry machine, like that, sure, there's value to like, really catchy, you know, hooky songs, but like, I just appreciate it when it's when it's a human being writing it not a team, you know, so, but that's, uh, yeah, I really love there's some some great bands coming out right now. And like the Psych and garage scene bands that I've been listening to, for a long time to they're doing new things. Gonna see this Canadian band wine lips pretty soon. And I love them. If you're into like, garage and punk and psych music, they're like, I think in my opinion, one of the coolest new bands, and they've been around for a while, but they're, again, they're kind of starting to break out a little bit. I feel like another one team mortgage is really good. I think they're based out of DC. And same thing. It's like a grittier kind of more punk inspired kind of garage psych aesthetic. But um, I'm a huge fan of like the, you know, the second wave of psychedelic and garage rock came out of kind of San Francisco, people like Ty Segal and OCS, and some of those bands. And so King gizzard kind of like continues that tradition out of Australia with their own little spin on it. So

Chuck Shute: 44:15

would you be a good fit to tour with any of those bands?

Andrew Hagar: 44:18

Not with my current style of music? No. But like I said, I did have a project Shortland project with my buddy, Trevor that I might continue in a spiritual way with with a different side project just for me, in which case, I would go out and tour it with bands like that, if I could get on the same tour, that would be a dream come true. But with the current stuff that I'm doing with Trev, like you said, it's a more modern interpretation of some classic sounding rock and I love it, that stuff is close to my heart as well. Like I've listened to a lot of grunge and alternative music growing up in the early 90s and whatnot, and we tried to bring all of those inspirations forth on you know, this record that we did Get together. And I'm really proud of the music. I've just been sitting on it for, you know, a few years now. Like dealing with different managers that had different plans for things and failed label deals and stuff. And now I'm at the place where it's like, I'm just releasing this stuff doesn't matter how it does, I just want to get it out and let people hear it. And the right people will hear it. And eventually, something's gonna happen, you know?

Chuck Shute: 45:24

Yeah. Would you too are like, I think Did you? Did you tour with collective soul? Like is this this would be a good fit for them? I feel like that would be a good package.

Andrew Hagar: 45:32

For sure. I know those guys really well. And I opened for them. Cowboys, 2018, I think I opened for them on a pretty big tour that year, and we had a good time. And all those guys are great. But yeah, I think you're right, like getting on with a, like a more kind of 90s oriented band would be really cool. But as it stands, like we're working on getting the right booking agent, you know, I was working with a booking agency for a while that wasn't really doing much with me. Because again, I'm not like a huge artist or something. But I got, I gotta hope for the future that things will move in the right direction. Because again, it all comes back to the music and this is objectively good music. So yeah, it's

Chuck Shute: 46:13

also like some of the connections and stuff to like, are you? Are you so you're friends with Trev? Because I think I had the band. Are you familiar with the band slaves to humanity? Because that's like an LA man. Yeah. Like, like those guys and stuff. Like, it'd be cool to see like you tour with like them? And like, yeah, like, they did a show with butter side, which I don't know if you're familiar with them. And I'm like, why can't we get some of these bands together and tour that's like what I was saying earlier, like, if there was a way to make it financially make sense, I would love to see something like that, where it's like, you know, three or four bands. But and I know that it's like with the money and stuff. It's hard to get all that stuff together.

Andrew Hagar: 46:48

But now yeah, I've actually talked to some of the guys from slaves humanity, because trade have produced a couple of tracks for them as well. And they're really cool guys are young kids that are like really hungry to get out there and do it. And I really admire what they've been doing already, you know, they've already got a pretty decent little amount of traction with, you know, the just the local, like Southern California circuit. They've been playing that with the House of Blues and all these other bigger venues, which is awesome. And a lot of cool stuff in LA. And yeah, like we've we've talked about playing shows together, and I would totally be down to play shows with them. It's just a matter of, again, finding something that would work for everybody. So I'm totally, you know, I'm only

Chuck Shute: 47:27

in Phoenix. So if you didn't two or maybe I just drive. They did a show and it was like it was butter side slaves humanity and violet. Saturday, I was like, Oh, I've had members of all three of those bands on my show. I was like, I want to come to the show, but couldn't make it. So maybe the next one and maybe you can jump on and do it. That'd be I think it'd be fun.

Andrew Hagar: 47:44

We'd love to Viper Room ever. I've never played the Viper Room. I've been to plenty of shows there though. I was I was on a different circuit in LA. You know, there's a couple different circuits but I was playing monthly review shows I like a residency at the hotel Cafe played Gold Diggers a lot, you know, Canyon club, all that stuff. But I didn't really play the Viper Room or any of those kind of more rock shows in LA because I was doing a different kind of thing different kind of, yeah,

Chuck Shute: 48:11

now you're doing the rock style. I mean, like it's it would be a good fit. It'd be cool.

Andrew Hagar: 48:16

For sure. Yeah. Shout out to like dirty Monday's they're doing some cool stuff with the Viper Room and mme Sam, we were supposed to play a show for them. And there were some weird complications that happened on our side of things. And we couldn't make the show. But yeah, I'm looking forward to playing a show with them pretty soon. So we'll probably not.

Chuck Shute: 48:33

So the singles that are out now, you said there's a full album, so there's going to be more coming. Yeah, there's

Andrew Hagar: 48:38

a lot more coming, I'm probably going to split the album into two EPs, because it just doesn't make sense to release a record right now again, without, you know, a label push or a little bit more significant kind of capital contribution. It just doesn't make sense to do it. But I've been releasing singles pretty steadily now from the record, and I the plan is to release the first EP in June. I haven't set a hard release date yet, or I haven't announced it yet at least. But um, we do have another single coming to kind of bookend that. And I think this is going to be a really fun song for people that have been paying attention to what I'm doing. It's kind of like red light appetite. Part two. It's a big, bombastic rock and roll anthem that I think people really enjoy. And there will be a music video for it as well. So yeah, we just put out systematic minds, which is my favorite song on the record. It's more of a slower tempo like mysterious almost, you know, Duran Duran ish kind of vibe. It's really cool. And like I said, slightly psychedelic in parts. And it's the first song Trevor and I ever worked on together back in December of 2020. So it's really, really exciting for me to finally get this out because since we like, literally since maybe 15 minutes into us sitting there and writing together I was like, Oh, this is sick, like you just know like, it's a good one, you know. So I was really cool. The

Chuck Shute: 50:07

red light appetite is cool. And then there's Judgement Day is available and cold life karma. Tell me about life karma just because I'm, I'm just curious what that's about because that lyric like cold life karma, you can't run from a cold hard fact called life karma is that your back like, that's kind of a cool lyric.

Andrew Hagar: 50:23

That song was about somebody, or something that I had dealt with that had stabbed me in the back kind of significantly in my music career. And we wrote that that actually came out of some sessions where I was writing music for other people with my now guitar player, Joey Ariana, who's a fantastic songwriter, and producer as well. Joey produced that song. And like I said, we were part of a team writing for sync stuff. And we were writing some stuff for sync briefs, which are like these little sheets that come out that sink managers get, it's basically like, like a little like mysterious, enigmatic block of stuff. They're like, okay, like, there's a TV show that's going to be on amazon prime that needs a song. And then it has like, vague keywords and themes that they want you to write about. And we were writing some stuff for other artists for sync projects. And out of that, we kind of got an idea for cold knife, and then we just kind of took that we're like, yeah, we're not going to use that for sync, I'm just going to use that for me. And, yeah, and Joey and I put it together during the pandemic, because we had done a demo for it, prior to that starting, and then everything just kind of like, you know, went off the rails, and we came back to it later. And the lyrics changed a little bit. Because obviously, my perspective on that event that I'm writing about had changed after time, more time had passed, you know, but yeah, just in general, I love that song. Because it's very applicable to a lot of things in people's lives, just in general, like, I'm not gonna sit here and say exactly what it is because, again, I I want people to put whatever meaning they have on the song for themselves and not be colored by my meaning. But when I wrote that song, I was definitely not too happy about someone or something in my life that I felt like I could trust and that I found that I could not trust. So

Chuck Shute: 52:22

that's got to be nice as a musician, to be able to have that outlet to be able to kind of like release those emotions in a healthy way.

Andrew Hagar: 52:29

Totally. It's therapeutic. I'm all about releasing the negative emotions that are piled on you by the world in it in a healthy way, whether like, that's how I found martial arts, it was a means to express some of the darker energy I had inside of me in a positive way that was therapeutic, and allowed me to, you know, get physically fit and mentally fit and all these things. But songwriting is just like that, as well. It's an outlet for people that not only can be like a positive force in the universe, but can provide connection as well which I think is ultimately one of the best things you can do as a human being is just connect with other people.

Chuck Shute: 53:06

Yeah, I think it's cool just as a fan to listen to songs like that and just be able to connect with the song emotionally. God you know, it's it's funny actually, the mammoth song i that song distance is like, I mean, it almost makes me cry when I hear that song. It's so powerful. I'm like, Wow, this song is really good.

Andrew Hagar: 53:24

Yeah, it's a beautiful song. And I mean, like Wolfie is a great songwriter and a great artists as well.

Chuck Shute: 53:29

Yeah, that's really cool. Um, are you speaking we were talking about TV shows? You're gonna be on some TV show family legacy is that

Andrew Hagar: 53:39

came out last week. It's on Paramount plus streaming. Our episode is available free on YouTube and Paramount plus for anybody that wants to watch it. It's called MTV family legacy. And to show a shot last September, I think I did about seven hours of interview. And yeah, we got to we got a pretty funny little 15 minute segment on on the episode. It's cool though. They basically interviewed a bunch of, you know, second generation kids and famous MTV adjacent, like pop and rock and roll stars. And it was cool. It turned out well it turned into a show basically just about MTV, old MTV, archival clips. So like, our episode, for instance, they have a lot of footage of me like watching the VMAs you know, my dad won that DMA for right now and some other stuff and some old music video clips. And yeah, it was it was just a fun little project, but they synced red light epicyte And the music videos while they licensed. So that's cool. Got a little bump in streams from that and some extra traction and engagement on social media. It was a fun project to be a part of.

Chuck Shute: 54:46

Yeah, so that I'm gonna have to check that out. Paramount plus and then you also you got to be a DJ on the Ozzy's Boneyard. Was that fun?

Andrew Hagar: 54:53

Yeah, that was pretty cool. My buddy Tommy London hit me up and asked me if I wanted to be a guest DJ and I'm a huge Old School metal fan and like grown up, I was a huge metalhead. So it was cool to put together just a few tracks. I put together some like probably more typical stuff that people would hear. And then a couple of deeper cuts that I thought were kind of funny stuff from like, this silly you know, 80s Hair Metal band, Grim Reaper, and, you know, oh, yeah, I

Chuck Shute: 55:19

had that guy on my show. Oh, yeah, no way. Yeah, he actually sadly passed away recently. Yeah, yeah, I got into him. And I was like, this stuff's actually like pretty cool. Like it's melodic. And because it made fun of it on Beavis and Butthead, but I but if you do a deep dive, it's actually pretty good music.

Andrew Hagar: 55:36

It's actually pretty good music as far as metal goes that that era of metal and yeah, I just remember, like, growing up, I was friends with a lot of like, skaters and pro skaters and shit. And we would sit around and like, you know, get stoned and watch skate videos. And I just remember seeing like C k y, which at the time was a pretty pretty big one for us. And in one of them, there's a really funny clip of like Don Vito row, I think he was rolling around on like a mower or something. And they're playing see you and held by Grim Reaper. And it was just like one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. So that song and that band really stuck out to me. And so I put it in on Nazis. Boneyard. That's awesome. That was entertaining. That's very

Chuck Shute: 56:16

cool. And then you know, you did you've done the rock legends cruise in the past, and then you're scheduled for some in 2024. Also, right? Yeah, I

Andrew Hagar: 56:24

did it acoustically just by myself, I had my brother come up and sing some stuff with me, too, back in 2018. And in February of next year, I'll be doing it again with my full band playing the newer stuff. So it's going to be a tremendously different experience for the people of the crews. And I'm really excited to do it. Because it was a lot of fun the first time too. Yeah. And that's

Chuck Shute: 56:45

like a good thing. That's like, it's profitable, right? They pay you to come on in and they pay for it. Stay and everything. And oh, yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Do you have any other shows lined up? Right now?

Andrew Hagar: 56:55

Right now we have a couple of dates over the summer that I'll be announcing soon. And we're looking at doing something more substantial in the fall, which again, I haven't announced any of that stuff yet. But there will be more dates coming is just like I said before a matter of finding the right thing, which I think we found. So I'm really, really looking forward to getting out there again, and touring with the band, instead of just me and a guitar player just being my harmonica. And

Chuck Shute: 57:22

so how many people will you be doing like rhythm guitar, then?

Andrew Hagar: 57:28

The thought the shows that we played so far with the band, I'm just singing my my guitar player, Joey REM is holding it down. Greg cash on bass. He's just an incredible musician. And then our boy Devin Webb sack, the sack on drums. And he's a old school metal guy that's just a powerhouse behind the kids. So, you know, between the four of us, we got a lot of energy up there on stage and moving forward, I'm probably going to be playing a little rhythm guitar and some of the songs as well. But as it stands now, it's a really fun show up there. We've gotten nothing but great feedback from all the shows we played. So

Chuck Shute: 58:03

okay, cool. Yeah, I'm enjoying the music that I've heard so far. So I look forward to hearing new music and hopefully being able to somehow catch a show, even if it means I gotta drive somewhere.

Andrew Hagar: 58:13

We'll be back in Phoenix. Don't worry. Okay,

Chuck Shute: 58:15

cool. Yeah. And then I always end promoting a charity. I know you're a big advocate of mental health and author's mental health care. Do you want to shout out here or something else?

Andrew Hagar: 58:23

Yeah, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, they do great work. I've had a profound impact in my life, from unfortunate situations with friends that have committed suicide. So I'm a big advocate for getting help talking to somebody. Resources are available. And I think the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention does a great job of providing options for people in education. But just in general, yeah, that's like, part of the reason why I started playing music was a good buddy of mine committed suicide. So helping to change the narrative on that and educate people as to their options, I think is a huge part of my mission in life and in music. Yeah, it's

Chuck Shute: 59:05

sucks because like, Yeah, I mean, I'm a big advocate of mental health myself. I was a counselor for 17 years, actually. And I remember in the 90s, it was like, you make anything mental health, it was like a stigma. Like if you went to therapy or counseling like, Oh, you're, you're crazy. There's something wrong with you. And it's like, I think they've done a lot better job of kind of D stigmatizing that, but there's still people that are just especially men, I feel like our shame to seek help. It's like a weakness or something. So, yeah,

Andrew Hagar: 59:32

yeah. Yeah, I agree completely. And I'm happy that we're living in a time where the conversation is changing. It's becoming de stigmatized. And, you know, just in general, it's becoming more widespread. The men are talking about their feelings and their struggles with mental health. And the narrative is changing. I think that's a beautiful thing. Any opportunity I can get to bring a little bit more awareness to that and help change the narrative is, you know, a really good thing in my opinion.

Chuck Shute: 59:58

Yeah, I think it's just like the waste. society has gone I feel like mental health. It's, it's like we had to do this because I feel like people's mental health is struggling. I mean, you're seeing it in the news and the media and stuff. I mean, you're seeing the worst of people's mental health. And it's like, but I think a lot of people are struggling, that are silent, that are just struggling in silence that aren't posting it on social media, or acting out in some in some way, like and then so you know, these kinds of resources and things and educating, I think, just going on YouTube, and just, you can just type in questions and things or there's a podcast I listened to called the mindset mentor. That's like, it's been extremely valuable to me more, more so than the counseling education I had, like, yeah, like that can be. That's, that's a good thing about the way the world is with YouTube and all the podcasts and social media and stuff. There's a lot of resources out there. So

Andrew Hagar: 1:00:45

access. Yeah, that's the biggest thing that needs to change, you know, but the access to the information is, is getting a lot better. So that's step one, right?

Chuck Shute: 1:00:53

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks so much for doing this. I appreciate it. And I'll put links in the show notes. So thanks so much for doing this. I'll see you later. Have a good one. Yeah. All right. See you later. Bye. Bye. All right, my thanks again to Andrew Hegar. I really enjoyed that chat. I hope you guys did too. Check out Andrews music on streaming or download it and catch a live show if he's in your town. And of course, follow him on social media like comment, share all that stuff. You guys know the drill. And you can do the same to support the podcast. And also make sure you're subscribed to the show on YouTube specifically, because I'm going to be posting a lot of YouTube exclusive content on there. It's gonna be short videos about interesting topics. That's going to be somewhat related to things I discussed with my guests on the podcast. So I think you'll enjoy that. I appreciate all your support. Have a great rest of your day and shoot for the moon.