James Rosseau (Author, Speaker, CEO)

James Rosseau is an author, speaker and CEO.  He is the founder of The Core Link Solution, a non-profit 501(c)3 organization committed to revitalizing communities through programs that empower people to reach their potential.  In this episode we discuss many of the topics of his book "Success On Your Own Terms" and how many of these principles apply to current topics in the world right now. 

00:00 - Intro
00:39 - Motivational Influences
03:07 - Defining Success
05:05 - Following Passions & Taking Risks
08:30 - Having Faith & Having a Plan
10:53 - Seeking Validation in Positive Places
14:03 - Taking a Positive Path
16;25 - Working Corporate Jobs
18:24 - Judging People By Success
20:20 - Helping People Find Their Purpose
20:04 - Highlight Reels & Success is Not Sexy
24:12 - Women, Success & Asking for Help
25:50 - Having a Shared Vision with a Partner
26:55 - Core Link Solution
28:02 - Outro

James Rosseau website:
https://jamesrosseausr.com/

Core Link Solution website:
https://thecorelinksolution.com/

Chuck Shute website:
https://chuckshute.com/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

Okay, James Russo is here today to discuss his book success on your own terms, which is all about finding your passion and honing in on that path to success. And James is a corporate executive with Chase Bank and Allstate and now he runs a nonprofit, the core link solution that's going to help people link to their core purpose and pursue their passions. So we have a great discussion about people finding their purpose, success, working through adversity and so much more coming right up. Welcome, James Russo, or trigged? Do you prefer to be called as kind of like your rap name or

James Rosseau: 0:46

whatever works for you? James is fine. That's, yeah, most people in the Christian hip hop industry call me trig. And yeah, sorry about that. Mike, are you still active in that community? Are you still very much yeah, we now have a Sirius XM channel. So I spend most of my time managing that are wholly coach radio. Yeah. Okay. Well, so you wrote this book about success. I wanted to ask you, what are your kind of success influences? I guess I know you mentioned the book. I mean, there's several quotes, but Steve, Steven Covey, Peter Drucker, are you familiar with like Rob dial or? David Goggins? I got his book right there. David Goggins? I've heard that name before Rob Dahl. I don't recall that name. No, yeah, check him out. He's got a podcast called the mindset mentor, it's great. Or what other ones are, were really influential to you to help you maybe steer you in that direction, because it is kind of like a, I wouldn't say like a religion, but it's kind of like a community where people who are all into this kind of stuff, I'm really into success, kind of books, motivational, inspirational, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. You know, early on, I've read all kinds of books like linking on leadership and Seven Habits of Highly Effective People was always like a go to book to go back to, I think the later years it's been books like traction, EOS entrepreneurial system, a great book. Gosh, at the big accountability book by the former military gentleman, I can't remember his name. But it's really a great book where he talks about, you know, the bow must be accountable. Right. And so I think, I think the influences have changed over the years, but yet their lessons I still go back to. And then there's so many non authors, right? When I think about people I've worked with that just emulated the kind of leadership that was impactful. So whether it was Matt winter at the Allstate Insurance Company, he was president of all state home, and home and auto insurance. at JPMorgan Chase, whether it was Jamie Dimon from afar, I didn't know Jamie well, but a few opportunities to meet them. And, you know, just a list of I once did a presentation check on leadership. And it was in the first page was people who influenced my leadership. And around I had me in the middle in this kind of dial around me of names, it was at least 1820 names. Dang. Okay. So

Chuck Shute: 2:57

yeah, there is a lot. So I think that, but but you're still following that. So you're still reading books? And yeah. So let's talk. I think you, you don't really get to this definition until Chapter 10. But let's just define success, because I like what you said it was something about, you know, obviously, some of it's so easy to point out like winning the Super Bowl, or a Grammy or series, all those kinds of things are easy. But then you talk about it's interesting. I've never heard this mentality about singles, because that's kind of the home run. But what about singles? So what give me an example of that?

James Rosseau: 3:30

Yeah, well, a single could be a stepping stone on the way to the major goal or milestone that you're after. Right? And so a lot of times when I'm talking to people about you know, where they want to go the the first part of the conversation for me, Chuck is passionate purpose, like what do you really ultimately chasing? And it's always the last interview question. When I'm interviewing somebody for a new role. I asked them, you know, if, if you won a lottery today and won a ridiculous amount of money. And after you take the trips, after you buy your, your family, the homes they want, even your cousin and all those folks give out money. What are you doing with the rest of your time? And these go? Ah, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, right now, okay. Awesome. I want you to stay right there. Tell me about that. And then you get them talking about trucking, just let him talk. And he said, Okay, how is that related to this job you just apply for, like, how does that gonna help? How is what you're doing now associated with that? And oftentimes it isn't, and because people feel like well, I have to do one thing and earn income another way, which which is dived into a whole nother conversation. And so once we get settled, okay, this is what you're really chasing? Then it's about okay, what is the journey look like? What's the vision and I always say, you know, think of your vision as you're on one side of the river across that river that looks like you cannot cross it is your vision where you think you should be going. The goals are like, You rocks, you can jump on across the river. I consider each one of those rocks are single, right? You don't get a leap across the river. One great leap. You got to hit you know, jumping some boulders and rocks to get across that river. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 4:57

So when you ask that question to people because I'm just thinking, like, I feel like I've kind of asked that question to people before. And I feel like a lot of people's answers these days. And also, I used to work in the school. So worked with a lot of young. And I feel like a lot of people are so lost right now. Either they don't know what they truly want to do. Or they'll say something like, Well, I just want to watch sports all there, I just want to Washington, I want to do like, really is play video games, whatever it is that that's like a lot of people's dreams. So is it more of a thing like, because I know you use an example, in the book about this music producer, engineer, guy that you worked with, that just did music stuff his whole time, but didn't really make money from that his money was from this real estate stuff. And that allowed him to work on that. So is that maybe the goal for some people is to find something that can pay the bills so that you can watch sports and play video games all day?

James Rosseau: 5:46

It could be I mean, I don't want to, you know, be too prescriptive for everyone. But you know, in my conversations, I find that it's a couple of things. So let's use an example. So you're talking to someone and you know, I really want to use my hands. I really want to build things. I love building things. Okay. But you're applying for a job outside of insurance company to be great to be a salesperson. Yeah. So then a part of it is okay, so when are you going to spend time with that? Because when you talked about that, the way you lit up your facial expressions, I'm seeing endorphins released real time. I need that kind of energy in this job. Right. So so we got to figure out how you do some of that part time, weekend nights, if we have inside of our organization, Habitat for Humanity. Maybe I get you involved in that. So you're spending time on a corporate sponsored thing. But I think Chuck as leaders for us not to ask that question of people and figure out what that is, no matter how off the path it may be for us. If you've missed that you missed the to me a primary lever for motivating person.

Chuck Shute: 6:48

Yeah, and don't you think part of it too, is sometimes maybe taking a risk. Like I know, like my dad, he was a very successful accountant and financial planner. But when he was in college, he really loved philosophy. And now he's retired. And he he's writing books, he's getting degrees, and fill offs of philosophy and psychology and all this stuff. And he's spending all his time. I mean, he could just sit around and play video games or watch TV. He's got he's, but you're spending all his time studying this. And I think back I go, I'm thinking like, if he would have pursued the philosophy and that kind of stuff. I mean, he could have been a professor at a college. And sometimes people just think, Oh, well, that's just a pipe dream. I shouldn't do that. But maybe they should.

James Rosseau: 7:27

Absolutely. I think most most of us have laid it up and said, Look, when I was a kid, I knew what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to be whatever, I want to rock the runway, I wanted to be an athlete, I wanted to be an electrician, I wanted to be an architect. And then at some point, let's call that early teens, you get this idea and planted the view, you have to make an income. All that stuff you've been playing around with, this is what you need to do over here. And many times well meaning people, that's the message they give us. And so we take off down that path is that at some point, I'm going to come back to that thing, right? I may do it here and there. And you can actually reverse engineer to say, Well, if you don't take on a ton of debt, if you actually chased a formal education or anything that you're passionate about, if it needs that, if you now there's so many ways to learn, get mentors in that space, and so on and so forth. And I'm going to use a word that is not used a lot nowadays, take on an apprenticeship with someone who already does a well to become the apprentice and grow in it. Why can't you go into it?

Chuck Shute: 8:29

Yeah, cuz I think you talked about having faith in your, in your gifts, your innate ability. So how do you keep that faith and not get discouraged? Along the way? Because it seems like it's such an uphill battle. Like, I'll just give you an example for myself, like with the podcast, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give this five years, I'm coming up on four years, but I said, I'm gonna give it at least five, or I'm gonna just try my best and see what I can do. But how do you know when it's time to maybe give up on something when it's time to move on or shift

James Rosseau: 8:57

your focus? And I think it's different for other people only answer for me and being a person who's trying to be faith first, for lack of better terms, right is one your prayer life, right? I mean, I believe in prayer, and not shotgun, drop off prayers. But like, I say that to say to me to slow down and pray and try to listen to what I believe God is telling me right and to also use the Bible to make sure it illuminates those things. To me. part one, part two, is what you just said, actually having a plan with a duration on it. That gives you a chance to breathe. And so I'm, I'm tremendously impatient. And so I'm the worst at this sometimes, right? Because if it doesn't work, quick, I get frustrated. I want more sooner. And thank God I have a wife who always reminds me, okay, did you tell me before that most businesses don't go from being in the red to cashflow positive for at least 18 to 24 months? Yes. So So why do you think is going to be different for you? Right? If it's unless it's high tech, and a unicorn or illegal it Take some time to turn the dial right. And so giving ourselves that grace to do that, I think is number two. And then thirdly, I use this phrase in my book, having a passion point, incubator, having people with you for incubating your idea. And the reason I use that language is because it makes you quickly think about eggs that aren't hatched yet, they are put in the incubator. Why? Because it keeps them the right temperature, and it protects them because they're at a volatile state, they can protect themselves. You need that in your journey. So you need people around you who are people, you know, like and trust, that are gonna be honest with you about what you're doing, but also going to give you encouragement, and help you with self course correction, right, when things aren't necessarily going the right way. And so I think those are three things that come to mind.

Chuck Shute: 10:45

Absolutely. No, that's all good stuff. And yeah, your book does help out with some of that. Here's a question I had that you don't really go into, if you really explain the details with this, but just because you talk about your backstory and the issues with your father, and I don't want I want people to buy the book, so I'm not gonna give it away. I've I worked. Like I said, I worked in the schools for 17 years. So I've heard a lot of stories that one did kind of like was a jaw dropper, I was like, Oh my gosh, I was like, people need to read that. But with that stuff with that kind of baggage, whatever you want to call it. How did you not think about that stuff all the time and get hurt and upset and feel worried and sad and let it bring you down? You kind of use that? And I don't know, I don't know if you use that. But it didn't distract you from propelling you into all the success that you had.

James Rosseau: 11:28

Yeah, well, well, first of all, your chi man, thanks for reading the book. That's, that's really awesome. Hopefully you did the audio version. I know, I

Chuck Shute: 11:35

wish I wasn't an audio version. Audio. Yeah, yeah. You sent me the digital on IG. I just split it up into I read it in three days. Because it was That's awesome. I can't read it into Yeah, because I split it into three parts. I just read 75 pages a chunk and then Sheesh.

James Rosseau: 11:51

Shortbus great, man. Thank you. Thank you. Well, you know, I so one, one thing I talked about the book is, well, my father passed, I was I think 1920 ish. And my version of acting out was to try to validate myself through work. But I didn't know I was doing it. Right. So so because I never had his validation. I never believed I had his validation. I felt like, you know, when I closed the casket, it was like, Man, I'm closing the casket on me. I'm not, I'm not getting this. I'm not, I'm never gonna get it. And I think unconsciously, I was seeking it in other places. And so corporate structures allow you to seek it well, right. If you can come in, perform, get more titles grow, so on and so forth. And then when I woke up and was present to it, that was another shift, right? As I'm talking to a counselor therapist, and we're talking about, and I'm still I'm in my 30s, I'm still wrestling with it. And he helped me with some closure through some techniques. And I think I talked about that in the book. So read the book, you'll, you'll, you'll learn a technique or two on closure. But um, you know, another 10 plus years beyond that, and I will say it still comes up. And what I tried to do is think about it from perspective of who he was, who he was, and maybe I didn't even understand what he was giving me part one, part two, what what am I constantly learning from that? Right? What am I learning that hopefully I do differently? And then part three, I believe in God's plan. I totally believe that God allows you to have experience to help help you grow in different ways for the big purpose that He has for you to serve and St. The other thing I would encourage people to think about is as you're thinking about your passion and purpose in the court gifts and talents that you have, how are they why were they given to you try to answer that question, why did you get that? Why did you get that special thing I was likened it to like I said, Greg Louganis, diving off the board. Back in the day at the Olympics, you know, how does he do a triple somersault, turn and then go into water with zero splash and make it look like a walk in the park as a gift. But he also had the only gift but why him? Why was he given that? I think we all have to ask ourselves that question.

Chuck Shute: 14:00

Yeah, no, very good. So why do you think that like your path, you went the corporate route, as opposed to getting into something worse, like drugs or gangs or something like, you know, crime, or just you know, so there's so many other stories that where people go the other way, they have this bad upbringing? And they just, well screw you know, let me I'm just gonna drink a beer or smoke a joint or whatever, and they just go down this dark path.

James Rosseau: 14:25

Yeah, well, I think you know, one Lord had a purpose for me. Right? I'm gonna start there. And, you know, when I look at what I'm doing today, with everything we do on the face, side, or organization, holy culture, I can see where while I was probably angry in my 20s, that I wasn't able to be the producer I wanted to be and be in rush producer management. We thought I had a deal. We didn't be with flavor unit management Queen Latif. And we thought I had a deal and I didn't. I saw the path that God took me to get all the corporate experience and learn how to do all these different things and now come back to the genre in a position where I can help build infrastructure for the gentleman. If I had to come in the way I was coming in, I want to, I'm not sure I would have gotten to the same place and be is, I think helpful as our organization is trying to be to the genre at large scale. And then why not the other ways I look outside of God directed me, I had, I had some parents with some good genes. One of the things I can say about my mother and father, they had some pretty, they have great work ethic, and a great examples of work ethic. I mean, my mom and dad, when they were together, not only did they work really hard, my dad was an insurance man and a pastor, my mom was a legal assistant, I got a chance to, you know, I used to go down to her job and get a chance to type on a typewriter in the office, but just watch her work. And then they took in at least five foster children, and I can remember by name, right when I was, you know, between the age of probably, I don't know, six to 1214 ish, right? And so watching them love on people, and bring people into our home. And then after they got divorced my mom, I don't work with probably two jobs, so we wouldn't have to change, you know, our living, so to speak, and still stay in the the home. We were in all those kinds of things. So I had never not seen a good work ethic.

Chuck Shute: 16:10

So maybe that Yeah, cuz I know you started the job. And it was to get turntables or whatever. And just like you went down that path, and then maybe you're just too busy to do all that other crap.

James Rosseau: 16:19

Yeah. Yeah. To definitely kept myself busy with the music stuff.

Chuck Shute: 16:23

Yeah. What do you think you work these corporate jobs? Talk about that a little bit. You work for Chase and all state? Like, did you enjoy it? Like, how did you find purpose? And meaning with a corporate job like that? And also, I'm curious is how many hours a week? Did you average in those those high level corporate position? Like,

James Rosseau: 16:40

gosh, I mean, I'll start the last thing first, I mean, hours per week? Chuck, I mean, easily 60 to 8090? Sometimes, I mean, be just because you're, you know, depending on where you are in building something, right? I mean, you're just there, you're just in it. 60 to 80, probably about right, you know, 2012 hour, days, plus weekends, 14 hour days, if you needed to plus weekends, I mean, you're going through a merger, sometimes with some of those jobs. I mean, you just you just are trying to do what you have to get done. And you're excited about it. To answer your question. You know, when I was at Chase, I was in HR service delivery, I had a chance to have a team initially in New York, about 60 people and then relocated to Delaware, we had a team of 100. So and then grew to about 200. And then when we had the merger, grew again. And I think, for me, it was exciting because to the to your your question around passion and purpose, it gave me a chance to mentor a lot of folks and help people grow in their careers, whether it was directly or kind of indirectly, through my leadership, and they, you know, they being a part of our organization, and it'd be a part of a lot of different cross functional teams in the company, whether it was working with the auto team and the home lending team while I was in credit card, and us trying to figure out a go to market strategy, and just honing new skills and impacting other people, but then also being on, you know, diversity councils and things like that, that are close to heart, and trying to help, you know, impact people. And now some, you know, distance later from each of those jobs, some jobs at least 10 plus years, you reengage with folks that you had time with and were able to impact and it's amazing to see their growth, right and feel like you were a part of their story.

Chuck Shute: 18:22

That's really cool. So when you when we talk about like, judging people by success, either or either good or bad, I feel like that's kind of an issue right now in the world where people look down on people from their success, either by being too rich and having too much success or not having enough success and not working hard enough. Yeah. Like about how do we balance that as a as a world? I guess I don't I don't know how to fix this issue. Because for me, it's like, I agree with you. I think everyone has their purpose. And as long as we're all on the same path with that with trying to fulfill our purpose, like, we're all kind of equal in a way, but but I think other people look at success differently.

James Rosseau: 18:59

Yeah. I think the easiest answer to it is what God has for you is for you. I mean, full stop what God has for you is for you. And so the comparison is the thief of joy, right when we compare ourselves to other folks. And what's so interesting is a many times my apologies, many times, you know, we we forget that, while we're looking at someone else that we think has so much better than us, someone else is looking at us thinks we have so much better than him, right? I mean, let's just be honest. I mean, we're still in one of the richest countries in the world. And we still have places where people don't have clean water or place to sleep. And not just a few people but in mass. And so I just think again, what God has for you is for you, I want to be thankful and have gratitude about what I've been given and be a good stewardship over the fact that I have a roof over my head clothes on my back a wife of 26 years a son is 31 a grandchild. So on and so forth. Am I, you know where I am relative to other folks? I don't want to focus on that.

Chuck Shute: 20:07

Yeah. Did you ever have that where people looked at you? I mean, you're climbing this corporate ladders. And then they thought they said, like you sold out or like any of those kinds of issues?

James Rosseau: 20:19

No, actually the opposite when I left corporate to work on a nonprofit, in 2018, that's probably when I got caught. I got calls that were like calls of intervention, like how can you leave the C suite? You're in a prime of your career, you have so many moneymaking years ahead of you? And my simple answer was, I'm chasing purpose. I have a purpose that God has called me to. I've been working towards it for quite some time, diligently trying to be a better saver, that a steward not by up to my income, and save me at one point we were living in his home and some some friends will say, man, we used to live in that small starter starter home or whatever it is you live in, you can afford to do. Yeah, yes. And one, if you think about it in that vignette, right in that movie, in the movie I'm living in called Chasing purpose. I need to squirrel away, so I can get to that point of freedom and go work on my purpose.

Chuck Shute: 21:15

Hmm, okay, awesome. Yeah, I think that I feel like that's a problem, though, with a lot of people right now, where they? I think I kind of alluded to this earlier, where I just feel like a lot of people are lost, like, Do you think that's one of the biggest issues in the world? Because I mean, if you turn on the news, right now, it's just this group and that group and the hate between each other, and they're blaming this person or that person. To me, it just seems like a lot of these people are very lost, like when somebody does a mass shooting, or these kinds of things. Like, you could say, it's this group or that group, but I feel like those people were just lost like they lost their purpose. I mean, that's not anybody's purpose to hurt others.

James Rosseau: 21:49

Yeah, I think that's yeah, I think I mean, I think there's some truth to that. And I think, you know, one of the things that we can do, particularly for our youth, in that regard, is try to have those conversations with them to help them find purpose, because it's easy to look at social media as an example, and only see highlight reels. And that's a that's a part of the channels too, if all you see is the bit like just like the example I use a Greg Louganis making the triple somersault and land. But we didn't get to see all this practice. How many times did he do a belly flop? Right? How many times did he hurt his back? I mean, you hit that water from 100 feet up and hit it the wrong way. That is an injury my friends. And so when you look at social media, those are the highlight reels most most people don't post, you know, today I saw it. I missed three meetings. I didn't deliver the port I was supposed to almost got fired, show me 10 of those posts, not seeing those right. And so if that's your basis of insight, if that's what you're looking forward to, to be like that it's an impossible task.

Chuck Shute: 22:51

Or right. And I think that's one of the things that the guy follow the ROB dial would talk about is that success is not sexy. Like if you saw what he was doing, you know, behind the scenes to make his podcast and how we got to where it's not sexy. It's the same. I think you bring that up in your book with a, like showing Walter Payton. And you know, obviously, when you watch him on film and games, it's amazing. But like, his workout regimen is like insane, crazy. Probably not that exciting to watch somebody workout like that for that many hours. Like, actually, if you follow them around, it probably get kind of boring.

James Rosseau: 23:22

That's right. That's right, you probably wouldn't like it. And you will ask that you may even ask, why the heck are you doing this? Why are you running up the side of these mountains during the offseason? The team hasn't started working out yet. And water is running up hills of rocks all summer whatnot. Right? And he said, You know, I think his answer to that question would be because I want to be better at what I do. I simply want to be better every year.

Chuck Shute: 23:46

Yeah, and isn't part of it. You're trying to sometimes obviously compete with other people like if you're in a game but also a lot of it with like Walter I mean, isn't you may be trying to compete with himself and break his own records and lift more weight than he did last time and those kinds of things. I felt like that's how you it's a better way to grow is to compare it to your previous not other people's

James Rosseau: 24:07

Absolutely. 100% 200%.

Chuck Shute: 24:11

Yeah, another thing that you brought up in, in the book was talking about with women and how they tend to shy away from asking for help. I thought that's interesting, because I think that's something that is kind of misconstrued a lot where they talk about women don't make as much, but the reason for that a lot of times if it's in the same position, it's because they're not asking for the raise, or they don't ask for as much.

James Rosseau: 24:34

Yeah, and you know, that, you know, when I wrote the book, let me see it was 2012 2013. I think even more data has come out in terms of some of the inequalities and disparities that women have to deal with, right. It's an it's a, it's a it's a it's a mountain. So first of all, I just want to lay the groundwork for that and that women not unlike other classes of people or segments better stated that are not on equal footing need help to get on equal footing. But then inside of that the data has shown that they may not always ask for help. And I will say that is true for all of us. I just did a podcast episode, literally two weeks ago, Chuck called, are you willing to ask for help? That was a big segment of the podcast, right? Because the data shows that most of us aren't willing. And there are eight or nine key barriers to debt starting with, um, a giver, and maybe an over giver start, you know, number two, maybe I don't trust the Ask number three, maybe I am self defeating. Before I asked kind of self doubt and talking to myself, and words, such as I don't deserve it, and the list goes on. And so there's been a lot of research on this. And I would encourage folks to look into it. If you can't think about two or three people that are co laboring with you cold journeying with you, you should stop and ask why are you not asking for help?

Chuck Shute: 25:48

Now, that's good advice. What and one thing, kind of piggyback on that with a with women and just romantic relationships? I don't think that's something that you brought up too much in your book. But how do you think a wife or husband can either help or hinder somebody's success, because that can sometimes make a big difference?

James Rosseau: 26:05

Either way, big time. You know, I again, I'm tremendously blessed. You know, the Bible says, When the man find and the wife you find it the good thing, and I believe it, because I'm living it, having someone who is again code journeying with you daily, and as sharing a vision with you that sometimes we use this term, right, have a shared vision. That is, I don't know what what is more priceless than that. Having somebody who literally is walking with you and willing to sacrifice both, you're making sacrifices at different times to go in the same place, versus relationships where you feel like you're kind of isolated, and then you come together and maybe eat and then you're isolated. And so you're not you're not doing it together. And so it should feel like a family plan. Right versus just your plan.

Chuck Shute: 26:50

supporting each other. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. That's great stuff. So yeah, tell me about is it the core link? Is that is that your website? Yeah. Or like solution? Yeah. Is that now that isn't is that a nonprofit, or

James Rosseau: 27:02

we are a nonprofit 501 C three private foundation and here to revitalize communities by empowering people to reach their potential.

Chuck Shute: 27:11

So, so you rely on donations on? Well, we

James Rosseau: 27:15

sort of Yeah, we do some donations. And then we are going into grants grant season right to apply for grants and such to support us. And we also have a holy Koecher radio channels, Sirius XM, and we'll use that as well to do fundraising as well as get some sponsors for some of our shows. 15 shows on our channel.

Chuck Shute: 27:34

Okay, so I'll put that in the show notes and then obviously, people should should get the book now. Now for some reason I forgotten the name

James Rosseau: 27:41

of your debts. Okay. Success, the alternative six.

Chuck Shute: 27:44

That's what success on your own turns. Yeah, it's great book. easy read. I didn't know there was an audible version. I would have done that. Because I always listen to those on double speed or time and a half. I can get through it really fast. But yeah, easy read good stuff. Really enjoyed it. Thanks for coming on the show. I appreciate it.

James Rosseau: 27:59

Thank you for having me, Chuck. Appreciate. All right. Bye bye. Have a great conversation

Chuck Shute: 28:04

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