Phil Soussan (Last in Line, ex Ozzy & Vince Neil)

Phil Soussan is a bass player, songwriter and music producer.  He has worked with some absolute legends including Ozzy Osbourne, Jimmy Page and Billy Idol. His latest project, Last in Line has a new album out on March 31st titled “Jericho.” We discuss the new album, songwriting process, satanic themes in music, working with Jani Lane & Vince Neil and more!

00:00 - Intro
00:50 - Technical Difficulties
01:38 - New Last in Line Album
03:50 - Progression of the Band
05:18 - The Evolution of the Songs
07:58 - Songwriting Process
11:35 - Biblical Themes & Positive Message
14:28 - Satanic Imagery in Music & Ultimate Sin Cover
16:35 - Music Bringing People Together & Challenges
18:20 - Work with Jani Lane
19:20 - Common Thread Among Superstar Frontmen
20:40 - Phil's Continued Success & Taking a Break
24:25 - Phil's Work with Vince Neil
26:05 - MusiCares & Randy Castillo
27:38 - Paralyzed Veterans of America
28:40 - Outro

Phil Soussan website:
https://philsoussan.com/

Last in Line website:
https://www.lastinlineofficial.com/

MusiCares website:
https://www.musicares.org/

Paralyzed Veterans of America website:
https://secure.pva.org/

Chuck Shute website:
https://chuckshute.com/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

Okay, so we had some technical issues and we had to go old school with this interview and I just said to use my phone. I couldn't figure out what's going on. I couldn't get the camera the real setup to work. I think it turned out with my headphones. That's why I couldn't hear anything got these other headphones on now to do the intros and outros. But the interview turned out great Phil soussan is here to promote the latest album with a supergroup last in line. It's called Jericho and it comes out March 31. Singles called ghost towns out now. And I'm gonna pick Phil's brain on success of the people that he's worked with. And we talked a little bit about his time with Ozzy, Vince Neil, Janey lane and more stick around so sorry about that. Kind of embarrassing, but I'm sure you know, technical difficulties, you probably have stories about that right

Phil Soussan: 0:56

now.

Unknown: 1:01

With recording or touring, or both,

Phil Soussan: 1:04

you know, shit happens. I mean, all the time. The more technology you have, the more there is to go wrong. And it's supposed to make life easier, but I'm sometimes I wonder.

Chuck Shute: 1:16

Seriously, I know. It's like when it's working. It's like amazing. You're like, oh my god, I'm doing these amazing things. The internet is so lightning fast. And Mabel to talk to you. I don't know. Are you in LA or Vegas? Where are you?

Phil Soussan: 1:27

I'm in Vegas at the moment.

Chuck Shute: 1:29

Okay, so yeah, I mean, we're able to have a conversation video. And it's pretty crystal clear. That's pretty amazing. So yeah, yeah. So tell me about the new album here. This is the third one for last in line, right?

Phil Soussan: 1:42

Yeah, it sure is. It's, it's the third record. And, you know, when, when I originally came into fill in for a few shows for for the lately departed, Jimmy Bain. I mean, the idea was just really to finish, you know, some commitments for some shows that were in place. And I don't know that any of us really thought this was any more than that. But as we started working together, we realized that we had a terrific chemistry and a great bunch of guys who all sort of complemented each other. And we decided, You know what, this is sort of growing legs, so to speak. So, you know, the decision was made to will, let's record, let's move forward. And let's see what happens. And that's pretty much what has happened. That's what we've done. And that's what we are here to third record. So, you know, and yeah, Jack, it's really strange, because I mean, you can do everything, right. And the outcome is never is never guaranteed. It's not like fixing a car, you know, if you do the right things, when you fix a car, you know, it's gonna work, right? Or at least in theory, but with it with our business, you never know. I mean, it's, and so when all of a sudden something works and develops attraction, it, the sensible thing to do is to put your weight behind it and say, Well, okay, this, let's push this forward. Now this is working through whatever, maybe planets have to align a certain way. I don't know what it is. But, you know, all of a sudden, something's working with this ban. And we decided to continue moving forward. So

Chuck Shute: 3:18

yeah. Now, are you happy with the results of the first one? Let's see, do you? Were you there on the first record, or no, this one did you join?

Phil Soussan: 3:25

No, I joined right before the first record was released. Okay,

Chuck Shute: 3:29

so are you happy with like, with the progression of the band and the results of the because a lot of bands go, that's not worth it to make a record? I mean, I don't know if financially if it is, but I mean, I feel like artistically, just as an artist, I would want to make music, I wouldn't want to just play the songs live, I'd want to create new things.

Phil Soussan: 3:47

Well, of course, I mean, that was always the intention of the band. I mean, we, we wrestled for a long time with this, this idea that we were a do cover band, or tribute band, or heritage band, or whatever you want to call it. And there is one out there that do disciples, that's what they do. We never did that. I mean, we sure there were some songs that if we didn't play, we probably had lynched. But they were really placeholders for a new material. And as we've developed our new material, we've slowly phased out a lot of those songs and brought in our own, which has been very well received. I mean, that was really the acid test. You know, I remember when we played download in 2019. And the debate was, well, what songs should we play? I mean, we have a limited amount of time should we play? How many of which are the do songs should we play and I forget who it was, it might might well have been me. Because somebody had an idea and said, Hey, what do you think if we just don't play any do stuff? And everyone's sort of shrugged and went, Yeah, well, at least it'll answer the question. If we can get through this. I mean, if it doesn't, then we know what we are. And if and if it does, that, that'll be great. And Pretty much I don't think we played any do songs apart from one encore. But it went down like a storm. It was fantastic. It was very well received. And I thought that spoke volumes as to whether people were enjoying the new material and wanted to hear it.

Chuck Shute: 5:17

Yeah, well, it says it sounds like it's kind of designed to play live like, just the because you got the Institute for group really, I mean, the musicians in there, you guys are all great. It's great guitar riffs and amazing solos, and then you got the cool baselines, and then the drum beats and the screaming vocals, I mean, it all sound, there's no weak links in this band. So it sounds like it would be amazing to hear live.

Phil Soussan: 5:40

It is a translates live very, very well. In fact, people have said that it's that sometimes the recordings don't do it justice. And there's definitely an excitement in what we do live. I don't know about the sound, I can't tell you couldn't tell you. But as far as what we do, there, there is an excitement, you can tell it's electric, when we play and people people are magnetized. You know, they don't go to the bathroom when we play a new song. And so, you know, that, that, that again, it's it's an energy, we were all together this room, we can feel the energy and they can feel the energy. And we're part of the same. That same, you know, the same machine? Yeah. I mean, you know, when I look at, you know, people say sometimes, you know, you happy with the way it's gone, or the album or whatever, I think I am I well, I don't think I am, I know, I am very happy with it, because that's the natural way that it was going to go. And so when you bring together a bunch of influences, that are all slightly different, and you put them in a room together, but they have a certain, you know, musical respect for each other. I think, you know, wonderful things happen. Great things. So, you know, that's, that's, that's sort of what were the were the progression of these albums has gone, it started with a sort of DNA. That was deal. And certainly that last record. I mean, I was a big fan of Jimmy's, I was good friends, we were very good friends. And I mean, we lived together. We were close pals. And I have so much respect for Jimmy and he was, but he has a different set of influences from mine. And so there's naturally going to be a different shift to the, to the boat, to the boats course a little bit, you know, I'm going to shift it more in my direction, and you're gonna get something that's unique. But it is a natural evolution. I mean, we haven't sat down there and said, That's what sort of songs should we write for this next record, we just sit in a room and we say, we won't bring anything in. Let's just plug in and see what happens. And eventually we'll play something and somebody will say, Oh, I like that. Okay. And then we'll start with that. And so it's a very organic.

Chuck Shute: 7:56

So that's the songwriting process, that's kind of you're all in the room together. It's not like you bring a song and then people tweak it.

Phil Soussan: 8:02

No, no, in fact, when I first when we first decided that we should go and start recording some more material a few years ago, now, I think I called Viva. I said, Hey, I'll dig through some ideas, see if I can get some some some bits and pieces to bring in. So we got some stuff to jam on here with no, no, that's not how we do this. Ever since the deal days, the way we did it was to sit in a room and just see what happens. And so he suggested that we do the same again. So don't bring anything in. We'll just plug in and let's see what happens. And I remember I got there early. And then he was there. And we started jamming on this idea. And it was a cover with some it was it ended up ended up one of the songs on to it just came together just happened. And so that's how that's how we write. And it's so refreshing. Now, Chuck, I don't know if I can go into the old kind of paradigm of sitting there with a band and going okay, well, here's my demos, here's my demos. And then we'll sit there and listen to them and say, we'll work on that we'll work on that. Which is almost like a, you know, it's like a combination of four or solo projects, you know, people bringing in finished songs. And really, that's not the best way to do this in a band. Best way to do it in a band is to come up with stuff together.

Chuck Shute: 9:20

Yeah, well, that's amazing. You guys can all be in the same spot because that's an issue too, but a lot of bands, you know that you have members in different states or cities or countries and so it's hard to get together. So then you try to do it on Zoom, which, as we know, doesn't always work out so great. So it's much easier to be in the same room.

Phil Soussan: 9:35

It's well, it's we don't we have that situation as well. We've got you know, Viv who lives in New Hampshire and Andy and I live in in Vegas. I live between LA and Vegas. And many lives in like towards San Diego, Southern California. So we are far away. But what it means is that when we do have make an effort to get together, it's usually for a limited amount of time. But we're tremendously focused, because we know that we've got to come up with something. Because if we don't you know, sometimes I wonder if you have, you know, I've worked on projects where you've had two or three weeks to do something, nothing really gets done until about two days before the end of the day, before the deadline, so why not just show up the last two days and just do it, you know. But when we do it, we only have a short amount of time. So we do have to take full advantage.

Chuck Shute: 10:29

So how many days was this? This was in two days, though, was it?

Phil Soussan: 10:34

No, I mean, we originally went to cut a couple of songs back in January of thing, remember anymore? Pandemic really screwed me up? Was it January to 2020? Right.

Unknown: 10:48

Yeah. Well, that would have been before the pandemic. Yeah. Right.

Phil Soussan: 10:51

So January, two months before the pandemic, we met up in LA and went to the studio with a view to just cut two tracks that we've been playing around with, we just thought maybe we'll do something. And surprise, surprise, after three days, we cut, we cut six tracks. And fortunately, we had those basic tracks to work on during the pandemic, when it started to open up a little bit more. Excuse me, when everything started to open up a little bit more than we went into a studio here in Vegas, and we've got six more tracks. But we worked very quickly. I mean, we did those in probably two, three or four day writing sessions.

Chuck Shute: 11:32

Okay. Yeah. So is there, I noticed like some is there some biblical kind of themes on this record? Like, you know, there's a song Not today, Satan. And then there was a song walls of Jericho, which I think Jericho is, you know, one of the oldest cities or some Biblical stuff about that. And there was, I think there was another song and I forget which one it was, were something about Jesus, I was like, trying to figure out, I didn't know if that was just coincidental or

Phil Soussan: 11:56

not at all. In fact, it's I don't know where Andrew came up with, not today, Satan, but he heard it somewhere. And then he thought it was a might have been one of those kind of Game of Thrones type of things, or something. And, you know, he wanted to do that, you know, write those lyrics. However, you know, as I started to listen to the whole record, to me, it was all about, I mean, there was a lot of conflict going on, on this on this album, there's a lot of challenges. And really, the challenges that we've experienced, we've all experienced yourself included everybody in these last two or three years, it's been really trying, I mean, there's been tragedies, disasters, inconveniences, and there's so much stuff. You know, the division that goes on in this world, I mean, everything is just, it's just a challenge. And it just seems that if you can get through this, that there's got to be something better on the other side. And for me, that was what Jericho men, Jericho meant breaking down the walls of whatever it is, and, you know, moving forward to something much, much better. And being able to overcome all of these things, which is why the artistic imagery on the album has the same thing. It has all these, you know, demons and influences and all this crazy shit that's going on. But it's not religious. It's just more of a just wanted to, you know, maybe good and evil interest trying to get through it all. I mean, everything we do, tries to, we try to have a positive message. The last album, you know, was was a similar set of challenges, I think. But the last record, the last song on the record is called the light. I mean, it's not religious, it's just that at the end of the tunnel, there's a light, there is a light, you know, you have to, you have to believe that because if you don't, then what's the point? Got to believe you got to be, you got to believe that's at the end of all our struggles, there's a benefit to it. And whatever that happens to be, this is up to each individual person. No, I like to be tried to try to give people a positive element. I personally like to sort of empathize with people that are going through a light to try to relate with people, what they're going through. But I also like to bring a positive message and say, hey, look, you know, it's worth it. Maybe you don't know right now. But someday you look back and you realize,

Chuck Shute: 14:26

yeah, well, that's interesting. Yeah, just because it's like, there's like, there's some of that satanic imagery stuff is coming back. I don't know if you saw the Grammys, and there was controversy with that. And then it made me think of the 80s. Like, if you played with Ozzy, and there was that whole thing like that, you know, people were burning records and things. And so it seems like people are on kind of high sensitivity about St. Satanic imagery again. And I was like, I was just thinking, I was like, Oh, that's interesting, because it's felt like it's something that nobody really cared about. And then all of a sudden, it's kind of like back in a way it's kind of interesting.

Phil Soussan: 14:54

Yeah, you look at death metal and all that stuff. I mean, what we did with Ozzy was laughable. I mean, you know, Move forward about 10 years. And you know, what we did was so trivial, because all of a sudden, I mean, I don't know if you remember any of this stuff, but there was this huge, controversial thing about the ultimate sin album cover. Because in the foreground the layout, the guy, the artist who painted it had little tiny, tiny crosses, like crucifixes crosses in the foreground, and we had to take them out. Oh, you can't have that that No, no, no, no, it's possible that you couldn't have a Julie Gray, the model that was on the cover could never crack and harass. There was a crack painted, they had to airbrush. And we had to do this to get to satisfy all of this this stuff. And but, you know, move forward about 10 years, and all of a sudden, it was just like, you know, dragging out corpses and I don't know, it just got really dark. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know that we were being religious or inhuman Satan to us. It's just to me, I mean, it's just, it's just stuff that's bad. As opposed to stuff that's good. You know, it doesn't, you know, you want to give it a name. It's an influence if you want. But now, it's, I hope it's not interpreted as something preachy or religious like that. It's just not just something we're supposed to be very easily related to that. So. Yeah, well, I

Chuck Shute: 16:35

think that's what music is. In general, I think all music I mean, most music brings people together from different all different backgrounds, like, hey, we all like this, you know, this band, we all like this song, how many people have all different kinds of backgrounds like heavy metal, like, tons and so you can go to a concert and see all sorts of different people. It's interesting. And, you know, that's one thing we all have in common.

Phil Soussan: 16:55

Yeah, you know, it's, it's, it is true. And you I mean, you know, you bring up religion and stuff from religion, to me is extremely personal. I think, you know, everybody's religious viewpoints are completely 100% valid, but they are personal is people's personal, you know, thing that, that they get out of it. And, and whether it's somebody who's a, maybe it's a somebody who's agnostic, who just believes in fate, maybe it's somebody who believes in some kind of religion, maybe somebody who has their own philosophy on life or their own philosophy and wants to deal with things, but you have to have some language that kind of joins the, you know, the the good desirable things from those things that we're trying to get over challenges. You know, one person may have, you know, personal challenges, or maybe alcohol challenges or drug challenges or personality disorders or whatever thing that somebody has, that they're trying to strive to get over. You know, we all have our challenges. And freedom is really is getting away from those things that sort of, you know, hold you down on bad habits, whatever it happens to be.

Chuck Shute: 18:11

Yeah, well, you mentioned that that's interesting, because I was gonna ask you, I know we don't have a lot of time, but I did. I've heard some other interviews that I've heard you obviously, you've talked about Ozzy a lot and your time with that, but I've never heard you talk about your work with Jamie lane. Did you tour with him? Or did you actually sit down and do Songwriting with him because I always thought he was a really underrated songwriter.

Phil Soussan: 18:30

Oh, Jamie was the best. What a great songwriter, great guy, amazing singer, great frontman. I mean, I miss him dearly. He was just somebody one of my favorite people. And yes, he was an incredible songwriter. And he was a great musician, too, as a drummer as well, and you know that but but as I toured with him, I toured with him in the latter part of his career when he had his solo band and we had different people mycorrhizal play drums, and we actually, first he found Dario Lorena is now playing with Black Label society. Janie found him. So he's a, we first gave him a gig and 17 So that's cool.

Chuck Shute: 19:17

Hey, do you like playing with all these guys? Ozzy and Jamie lane and Vince Neil and Billy Idol? Is there one? Like thing when you look at their success? That brings them all together? Like is it is it just their raw talent? They just have so much raw talent is their work ethic? Is it something else? Is it tiny? Like how did those guys become so big? You got to be around them and watch them work?

Phil Soussan: 19:42

I honestly don't know. I mean, it has a close with something that you know, having some kind of spark at the right time. I mean, all of these people that you mentioned had a great deal of charisma. And they also came up with material the rest meeting with people. And maybe the timing was right, as well. I don't know what the formula is for success of that, that sort. I really don't. I mean, Billy has more charisma than just about anybody I've ever I've ever met I've ever known. And the same could be said, you know, with Ozzy, and, and all of these other stars, I mean, they just have this thing. And it's just undeniable. But I can't put it into words, and I really stepped forward about

Chuck Shute: 20:37

for yourself, then like your own success. Because I mean, your resume is amazing. And I mean, even if you had worked with one of those guys, it would be like, that would be something you could hang your hat on for the rest of your life. But you've continually gotten gigs with Ozzie Vince Jane. And now you're I mean, this, this group, you're now at last line is basically a super group. So how do you continually get those gigs?

Phil Soussan: 21:00

I don't know. I mean, I, it's a really, it's a very strange thing, because, you know, I used to get this thing where people would say, you know, when, you know, what are you gonna do when you made it? Or that made it, quote, would come up? And I think to myself made it, I never really thought of made it as a as a as a goal. And what would that look like? What would that represent? If I was to made it? What would and then so I remember, at one point, I said, sort of, sort of looked back as my own career, and I looked back at a long period of successes. And then I realized that what I had done with it was quite substantial. And I thought, well, maybe I have made it made it, though. I mean, so my point was it. That judgment is more of a retrospective thing. sort of at the end, you look back and you see all these things that you've done, but never at any point during that time was I thinking, Oh, well, this is what I'm going to have to do to make it or this is how I'm going to know I've made it, or this is, when I realized I've made it, it that was never the case, it was definitely something where you look back, and then you use your body of work. That's, that's gone on. And honestly, one thing to another, the things that have kept me going between projects is the desire to do what I do. I mean, that's really the only thing I want to do. And so I keep on doing it. And even if it's, you know, there's been times when it's been really difficult and where other people might have questioned whether it's worth going on, maybe it's time to, you know, go do something different to try something, something else. It's just never an option. And for me, it's like, okay, if I can't, if I can't work with somebody, now, write some solo material. If I can't do this, and I'll engineer something, I'll produce something, you know,

Chuck Shute: 22:58

but then you take a break where you're like fixing bikes or something like, which

Phil Soussan: 23:03

is true. I got very frustrated at certain point in time. And I just took a break. Actually, when, after I left Vince Neil's ban, I was just kind of fed up with everything. And I just said, you know, maybe I just need to take a breather, because I've been going nonstop since 1985. When I sort of got the gig with Ozzy, and, and it was 1992 and 1983 or something, and I just said, I've just been going non stop, I just need to take a break. And I always love restoring motorcycles. I still do something I was doing since I was about 14 or 15 years old. So I went to work for a friend of mine and who restored vintage motorcycles. And I did that until after about a month ago.

Chuck Shute: 23:50

So the music to the music pull you back. Are you just sick of making fixing bikes.

Phil Soussan: 23:55

Now the music pullback, sometimes sometimes you can get very inspired by getting away from something for a while, especially immersed in it the whole time. Yeah. And, you know, I find myself working on bikes and and starting to come up with really great ideas. I'd go home and I'd start picking up instruments. And at a certain point in time, I said, Okay, I think I'm ready to, you know, I've had a nice little hiatus. Let me get back to get back to work. So,

Chuck Shute: 24:21

yeah, it was funny. It was the Vince Neil thing I know, because I didn't work out but I love that record. And like you wrote five or six of the songs. I remember even as a kid being disappointed when they said you left I was like, Oh no, because like, I feel like you brought such like star power. You know, being with Ozzy and then the songwriting. I was like, I was a big loss for that band.

Phil Soussan: 24:41

Yeah, I put the whole band together for events. I mean, it was a, you know, his, his manager at the time. Bruce bird and Jack blades called me up on the phone and they said, Hey, Bruce is the managed night Ranger and he managed the Damn Yankees and and he said I've got Trent's here. And, you know, if we need to put a band together, he's your power. You guys have been friends for a long time. And when you come, you know, do this with with Ben. So I met up with him that same day, and decided to put a help put a band together. And we started writing, and I did everything. And then it went very sour. It went south. Bruce, unfortunately passed away. One Halloween aneurysm. And Bruce was a wonderful guy. And Hebrews wrote the guy really holding them together. And I certain now that certain person in that band decided to start playing a bunch of shenanigans, and it just turned into a big mess. And at certain point, I just, I was like, Okay, I gotta get out of it. This is not, this is not like signed up. Yeah. And that was another reason why I sort of went off and worked on bikes. I was yeah, very frustrated.

Chuck Shute: 25:57

Take a break. Well, I'm glad you're back in the music. I'm loving the new record. I want you to get to your next interview. Am I always on each episode promoting a charity, though? Is there? I know, you've worked with music carers before. Is there something else you want to promote here at the end?

Phil Soussan: 26:09

No, I mean, music has is it's a great charity. They took care of my friend, Randy Casteel, when he was dying, and really, really did a lot of wonderful things for him. And anything I can do for music as I was, well,

Chuck Shute: 26:21

yeah, I thought that was cool. I heard you say some about Randy, how, you know, he was kind of mad when you left Ozzy. And then, towards the end, he thought that told you that was a great decision, because look at all these cool things that you had done. And he kind of thought like, he should have done that he didn't do as many cool things as you is it something like that? Yeah, I

Phil Soussan: 26:39

really felt bad when he said that to me, because, and not just because I felt vindicated for earlier disagreements about this. But to me, the worst thing in the world is to have regrets about. And that's what made me feel really sad. I mean, I think that, you know, I live my life with the adage that it's better to regret the things you didn't do than to regret things you didn't do. Sometimes that's got me into trouble. But it makes me sad when I when people say something like that, say, you know, I really wish I'd done this, or I should have done this years ago, whatever it was. So, and Randy was, you know, he was my, he was my close friend, I mean, plus anybody else. So I mean, I think about him all the time. So what music has did for him is, is just was just wonderful. And then so that anything I can do for the Grammy or for for the music as I'll do. And also, the other charity I support a lot is the Paralyzed Veterans of America. You know, so, like, I was trying to do things for them as well. I have a lot of time for our military and for our veterans and for people who, you know, we bet your mom because we got to be somewhere at a certain time these people get their marching orders and they're off 15 months. That's it. No questions if, ands or buts. But but but no care. It's an incredible, incredible dedication. And so, anyway,

Chuck Shute: 28:12

yeah. Okay, well, I'll put those links in the show notes along with the last in line website. And then well, you guys, I can't remember was there? I don't think there was tour dates scheduled or is it

Phil Soussan: 28:22

coming up? Yes. We work? Yes. April, May. And then in September afterwards, so we had to kind of play around the demographic schedules. So sure. Yeah. Okay. That's okay. That's what, that's what we did. All right.

Chuck Shute: 28:36

Well, thanks so much for all once you get to the next one. Nice speaking with you. All right. Bye. Thank you. Thank you to Phil and thank you all for watching. Check out the new last in line record Jericho out March 31. Bid your music. You can support Phil by purchasing the record streaming it buying merch or ticket to see a show or even just following Phil or last in line on social media. And of course, you can support our show here by following us on social media. And of course, your comments likes and shares on both social media and YouTube. These episodes will help not only the show, but also the guests by bumping up the algorithm so that more people will see it. Finally, making sure that you're subscribed to the show wherever you watch or listen, I appreciate appreciate all your support. Have a great day and shoot for the moon.