Chuck Shute Podcast

Andrew Thorp King (Author, Record Label Owner)

January 04, 2023 Andrew Thorp King Season 4 Episode 310
Chuck Shute Podcast
Andrew Thorp King (Author, Record Label Owner)
Show Notes Transcript

Andrew Thorp King is an author, speaker, and record label owner. His most recent book “Failure Rules” discusses how people can learn from failure and use it to their advantage.  We have a really fascinating conversation about success, failure, money, risk, finding your true passion in life and more!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:45 - Idea of Failure Being "Good"
0:05:34 - Favorite & Most Successful Endeavors
0:08:41 - The Term "Safetyfile" & Friends
0:14:03 - Pink Slip Bowler
0:16:31 - Nothing is Safe, Risk & Comfort Zones
0:19:51 - Money, Greed & Envy
0:25:34 - Billionaires & Competition
0:28:30 - Too Greedy & Monopoly
0:29:50 - Thing 1 & Thing 2
0:33:56 - Using Rejection as Fuel
0:37:16 - Record Label & Passive Income
0:38:25 - Rock Bottom, Welfare & Shame
0:45:25 - Using Cards Dealt as Motivation 
0:47:55 - Perseverance
0:50:38 - Division, Standing Out & Being Authentic
0:58:58 - Knowing When to Shift
1:01:30 - The Book Process
1:03:00 - Cigars
1:04:19 - Leary Firefighter Fund
1:05:51 - Outro

Andrew Thorp King website:
https://www.andrewthorpking.com/the-book

Leary Firefighters Foundation  website:
https://learyfirefighters.org/

Chuck Shute website:
http://chuckshute.com/

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Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Chuck Shute:

Today on the show, we have Andrew Thorpe king. He is a record label owner, author, banker, and so much more. And while his last book was a spy novel, his latest book failure rules is where he discusses his five rules of failure, and how you can use failure as a tool to learn from so I'll be honest, I was not familiar with a lot of the bands on his record label. But I am a huge fan of self help books and the topic of success and failure. I had a lot of questions, and Andrew has a lot of answers. So it's a fascinating discussion. It's coming right up. Please welcome Andrew Thorpe King, how are you doing?

Andrew Thorp King:

Great, Chuck, thanks for having me here. Nice to talk to you looking forward to our conversation.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, we finally got to happen glad that you're feeling better. And it actually worked out better because it gave me time to finish your book. I read most of it. But it was a little bit behind just because of the holidays and everything. So now I was able to finish the whole thing. And it's great stuff. Good, very educational. I guess my first question is, where did you come up with the idea of that failure is good, because I know when I was a kid, failure was not good. I think for me when I first realized oh, failures, okay, it was with the book, growth mindset came out. Are you familiar with that one?

Andrew Thorp King:

Yes, yes. Yeah. So failure is good. Right. So I guess I would just nuance that a little bit and say, I'm not saying that failure is necessarily good in and of itself, right? The tagline of the book is after it sucks, failure rules, right? So it does first suck, right? So there is an element to it, where it is not good. It is still to be avoided, in most cases, right? Unless it's kind of just the iterative micro failures of a learning process of a pursuit. But other than that, you know, failure can be good, it can roll. But it takes a mindset to accomplish that, I think, right. So that's kind of what I learned through decades of kind of entrepreneurial, off road adventuring, through my 20s, and 30s. And all the different things I did from running record labels to being a spy novelist, to owning a gym, to doing all kinds of things in the finance and banking space. It's like one of the lessons of failure that I've learned. And that's really what the process of writing this book really unraveled and revealed to me, right. And so I think the actual rules of failure in my book for the audience is the failure rules, the five rules of failure for entrepreneurs, creatives and authentics. So I think it's really, you know, the rules, really, you know, are a roadmap to how to extract and pull value from almost any failure. And so, you know, if you can view them from the lens of these rules, and the lessons that collapse under these rules, I think then failure can be good, right. But I don't think it's automatically good. It really takes I think, a, you know, a an intentional approach to failure to make them good. Right, and then

Chuck Shute:

trying to it's learning from the failure, if you keep making the same mistake over and over, well, then that, yeah, you're not gonna get anywhere. But if you learn from that failure, you know, you get hit hard, and you're down now, kind of like you were when you your record label went under, and you get divorced, and it's like, you're at rock bottom. And some people might jump off a cliff, and you climbed out of that. And we're able to write this book and do all sorts of other good stuff.

Andrew Thorp King:

Yeah, and so I would say even, it's not even just mistakes, right? Mistakes are kind of the obvious, reflexive idea of what failure is, you know, it's that it's that gap in decision making, right? It's the, it's the having a plan with holes in it, that didn't work out, because you probably could have had some foresight that might have avoided it, that's a piece of it, right? That's a part of failure. But then there is just the the failure of that new strategy just because we live in an unsafe world because the free market is not predictable, because people are not predictable, because just being a mere participant in the human condition, can cause you to encounter the effects and the symptoms of failure, whether it's, you know, war, or sickness or whatever it might be. So I think it's also rooting yourself in a philosophical mindset that prepares for those things, whether it be you know, kind of the non faith tradition of stoicism or some sort of faith framework, or some sort of philosophical grounding. I think that is also a big piece of helping yourself prepare for failures so that when they do occur, you can kind of objectively observe your experience versus kind of having an emotional participation of your experience. And then you can find ways to you know, like, like the Phoenix, you know, emerging from the fire that Phoenix was burned to emerge, you can find ways to see how oh, maybe this failure is actually burning something off me that needed to die old thinking needed to die always being needed to die, and to see that chaos as as a force that not necessarily is going to crush you although it could be a threat, but if works that you then step back and find a way to steer that energy into something that create a rebirth in you. And think of the world as a wider place. Think of new ways you can reinvent yourself, and really evaluate what is my unique talent stack? And how can I find ways to use that, to give the world a, you know, a flavour of my highest usefulness. And I think failure can help us do that it can help us grow and help us evolve. But you really have to be introspective, you have to, in some ways, so let's think about it ahead of time it pretty meditatively

Chuck Shute:

huh? So with all the things that you've done, like you said, a writing spy novels, and record label, you had a Jim and your banker, what what was, uh, what was the most financially lucrative of those things? And then also, what was the most fun of all those things that you've done?

Andrew Thorp King:

Right. So I mean, what you're talking about is kind of that dichotomy of money and meeting which I talked about in the book, as you know, right? Yeah. How do you marry money and meaning they're both important, right. But to sacrifice one for the other, you're going to have a deficiency. And I've talked about a portfolio pursuit so that if one is more heavily weighted on money, you're heavily weighted on meaning, the balance of your pursuits might create a composite by which, on the aggregate, you can have more of a achievement of 100% fulfillment, both the money bucket and the meaning bucket. And I think for me, there's always been that composite. I mean, even now, my most lucrative, active pursuit would be as an executive banker, for an online technology bank that services, the FinTech space, the financial technology space. So you know, helping kind of those cool apps of the world, the time, the PayPal, the Venmo, helping companies like that move money in more interesting, efficient, quick ways, instantly, cross border and all of that, that is probably my highest lucrative pursuit, or most definitely is at this point. And it carries a lot of meaning to, but it's probably not the highest meaning. I mean, for me, right now, currently, it's the energy and the passion I have around this book, The evangelizing of the message of this book, and all the different ways that it's kind of evolving, you know, from the book itself, from YouTube videos, you know, from doing the podcast, the merchandise company that created around the ideas, it's all of that. But even that, right, like that is almost like this overarching, you know, compartment by which it's evangelizing my other passions that I've had throughout the years, the constant, never ending connection to music, the passion that I have for music, and how, you know, the music, and the message, particularly of the hardcore punk and metal scene, drives, and is an anthem and a soundtrack and all that I do, and really buoys My Spirit Day in and day out, from, from a recovery standpoint, from failure and hard times, to a motivational standpoint, to catalyze action when I need to get shit done. You know, and then the other passions, my, my love of the cigar culture, and how that is really kind of, you know, an elixir and an accent to my life that really gives flavor and, you know, add friendship, and, you know, just all kinds of daily joy. So, you know, I think the short answer really is, is that portfolio pursuit mindset to create a integrated structure in your life, where through different means you're achieving different levels of, you know, fulfillment from from a financial standpoint. And from a meaning standpoint.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, well, I'm one of the things you're talking about in the book that I found it really interesting, just because I know, a lot of people like this is the term safety file. I've never heard this, I don't know if you coined this phrase. But basically, a safety file is a is somebody who is irrationally attached to preserving safety within their personal and work life above all other motivators and values. And that just is so important. I feel like because I think there's too many people that fall into that category that they're unhappy, but they don't want to take a risk. And they're just so caught in their, you know, stuck in their ways, especially at my age and the you know, a lot of those guys will go through this in their late 30s, early 40s. Kind of like a midlife crisis, basically. And they don't take the jump, and then they're just miserable. So what are your thoughts on that? Like, how can people get out of that mindset? Or can they?

Andrew Thorp King:

Yeah, I don't know if they can, right? If you're so stuck in that where that's just your way of being, and you never really stepped out of that lane and kind of, you know, expanded those guardrails that you've artificially placed in your life. I don't know exactly how you step out of it, but I know it's a problem. I know that the fact that it's not been a problem for me, has allowed me to really live life to the fullest and destroy future regret because there's something burns inside me. I am going to pursue it either until it fails partially succeeds or fully succeeds. And whatever the outcome is, I am going to be satiated because I know that I'm never going to look back and wonder what if on these things so what It's competing in bodybuilding, right in the spy novel, you know, starting my own record labels, opening a gym, all these things, it's something burgeoning. I'm gonna go after it. And failures have come and will come. But in the end, like there's so much that they learned and just being being able to have the opportunity and the drive and the audacity to take that risk to step out of that safety, perspective, and chase after things. I mean, it's been the thrill of my life. I mean, I have this Jesse is liquid quote in the book, Jesse Easler, who was, you know, who is, you know, you know, wildly successful entrepreneur on an NBA team. He's a rapper, you know, all of that. And Sara Blakely, the billionaire who started Spanx. And his quote is, you know, my life has been ready fire aim, and it's been one of adventure. Right? And so I can remember there was somebody in my life who kind of who almost sarcastically, you know, commented about me when I was doing something that seemed crazy, like, oh, that's, that's him again, going ready fire aim. It's like, fuck yeah, that's right. That's exactly what I do. Right? And, if not ready, fire, aim in some blind way, necessarily. It's more kind of a modified version of that, where it's, it's ready, approximate your aim and the drugs to, you know, adjust your aim and flight. Right. So it's not a thoughtless ready, fire aim, you know, wholesale? 100%. Right. But it is that idea that if you're waiting for perfect conditions, to pursue something difficult to pursue something meaningful in your life, that is, is not Orthodox, or that will require some real risk. If you're waiting for perfect conditions, good luck. You probably never gonna get started.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. Do you find it hard to be around? People like these safety files? Did you have some friends growing up? Who were fit in that category? And did you find yourself outgrowing them spending less time with them? Or, like you find yourself connecting with more entrepreneurs as you do more? Different kinds of avenues and things?

Andrew Thorp King:

So first, just comment back on the term itself, I did, I think coined that phrase I never heard anywhere else. I just kind of came up with it. Yeah. And it's part of the definition of terms in the book. And you know, I've always been attracted to those that are looking for unusual achievements. And not necessarily in terms of like material wealth, but unusual achievements. Right. Those mean, the case studies in the book are people that have taken an unorthodox path paths that don't have some sort of, you know, college issued degree with a blueprint attached to it in some sort of linear, you know, framework and found a way to get their hooks and success in unusual ways. Whether it's, you know, Henry Rollins and Black Flag, you know, embracing punk rock poverty and eating dog food on the road to get to where he is to now where he, he's having this meaningful influence on, you know, on the Steam in on the world, you know, whether it's Comedian Jim Norton, who decisively decided to not take jobs that might lower him away from his passion, instead, took jobs that were more meaningless on purpose, but freed up his mind to think about how he would, you know, chase after singularly his career in comedy, things like that. So whether it's these virtual mentors or people in my life, that is who I tried to surround myself and track myself to, you know, not to like the exclusion of, you know, being friends with other people, but I certainly delineate between the two. And in terms of who I admire, it's those that take the risk like that. And I've always been kind of impervious to the safety file attitude, and those that have in my life. I mean, I have this quote from Leo Tolstoy, in the book around, you know, the best solution is to be kind of good and ignore the opinions of others. And that's kind of been my motto, like, alright, you think that you know, about, you know, what I'm doing or what somebody else is doing? Because you're stuck in this mindset? I'm not gonna hate you for but I'm gonna kind of ignore that opinion.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, no, absolutely. The one of those you have, you mentioned the case studies, you have so many great ones in the book, some personal things that you know, people that you knew, and then obviously, some that you read about or whatever. But the one that I thought was really interesting, too, was the pink slip bowler story, can you just kind of summarize that for my audience. I don't want to spoil too much of the book here. But this is a really good one that hopefully will get people interested in the book.

Andrew Thorp King:

That's really cool that you liked that one. That was one that I was particularly attached to. And I was happy to have kind of found and blend into the book. Right. So Thomas Smallwood, who's a professional 10 pin bowler, he was working at a Ford plant in Michigan, and you know, the grind, blue collar job, you know, that kind of lifestyle. And he got a pink slip, he got laid off from the Ford plants. It actually correlated with experience I had getting laid off from a Ford credit, you know, office job where I was a collector, and I got my own picks pink slip there, that really gave me a failure space to explore my desire to start my record labels in that failure space. I did do that. And Thomas Smallwood did a similar thing. He got this pink slip. And He is quoted as saying, you know, getting laid off was one of the worst things that ever had happened to me, but it led to the best results, right. And for him the best results was in that failure space in that emptiness, he was able to step back and use that chaos as an idea engine. And he kind of like, you know, saw this desire, he had to be a professional bowler. And you know, with little means he scraped up $1,500. And, and I don't know what tournaments they were, I forget, but entered some local tournaments. And while he was laid off from from the poor plant, found his way to becoming a professional bowler, he got a call to be recalled back to his job, and he was able to tell them on the phone, I'm sorry, I'm not going to take the job. But if you want to see me on ESPN tomorrow, tune in because he had become a professional bowler in that empty failure space. Because of the risk. He took, you know, with little means to go pursue that. I mean, in parallel, he was looking for another job. He wasn't impractical about it. And that's another key thing. Like, you know, none of this is about doing anything without having a practical plan to kind of bill you and give you structures and go after your dreams. But yeah, I found that to be a really cool story. Just this past year, there's been a, you know, a network show with comedian Pete Holmes playing Smallwood. It's called how we will I think it's called kind of a sitcom show, which I don't think really does justice to kind of the core of his story. But you know, I like Pete Holmes, and what have you. So it's just kind of cool that the story made it into a TV show.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I'll have to check that out. So and then the second rule in your book is failure. Failure, buck is nothing is safe. And this always reminds me I don't you didn't put this quote in there. But this reminds me of the Jim Carrey quote, I don't know if you're familiar with that. Where he tells he tells the story about how his dad wanted to be a comedian. He could have been a really great comedian. But he wanted to do the safe thing. So he took this like bookkeeping job, and then he gets laid off. And so that's when Jim Carrey learned well, you might as well Chase doing what you love. Because even if you try to take the safe route, sometimes even the safest route is not safe.

Andrew Thorp King:

Well, exactly right. I mean, that's the illusion of it. Right? Like what exactly the safe even mean. Right? Yeah. I mean, you know, there's degrees of safety, for sure. Right. But if you're, if you're financially safe, but you're stuck in a job, where essentially like Thoreau describing his quote, that you're living a life of quiet desperation, how safe really is that? Because it's really not safe for your mental health, it's not safe for your emotional health, it's not safe for your, the wholeness of your being. So how safe is it? You know, so it's a matter of those competing values, right? And, you know, I have the example the book of the show, dirty jobs might grow and an episode called safety third, which didn't really mean safety needs to be third arbitrarily, but more that, hey, safety ought not always be first, you know, just by default, you need to weigh competing priorities against safety, and see, see where it really lie in the hierarchy in the ranking. And it's really kind of, you know, combating that safety file mentality.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I mean, I just don't think for I think there's different levels, but I think it is good. Like, you know, as David Goggins, I know, you're a fan of to says, you know, you need to get out of your comfort zone, I see. For me, I don't think I'm ever going to be the guy that's going to go free climbing, you know, 10,000 feet. No, we'll just if I, you know, if I slip and fall and die, it was worth it. Like, to me, that's not worth the risk. But I think there's somewhere in between doing that and taking the safest job and never leaving your house, too. I think you should take some risks. Get out of your comfort zone somewhat.

Andrew Thorp King:

Yeah. So I mean, I think you're right. I mean, look, I'm a banker, right? So risk management is part of my job, I think about risk. That always got to be it has to be weighed against growth reward, you're finding the adjacent possible. And it's always a balance, right? It's the idea of you know, that Jordan Peterson has popularized with chaos and order in the balance, if you have a surplus, too much of a surplus of either chaos or order, things will go wrong. If you have too much chaos, you can't function. If you have too much order, you're so comfortable, you're not growing. So I think it really is finding that balance between risk and relative safety. Because again, I don't really think anything is fully safe, right? You know, there's always going always going to be challenges, there's always going to be deficiencies in the different elements of our needs for fulfillment.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I mean, it just is we saw that the other day with a football game where the guy gets hit in the chest and passes out and collapses. Like, I mean, I you know, you're gonna probably get take a risk playing football and maybe get hurt, but you don't think you're going to, you know, go unconscious for 10 minutes. So I mean, it's like you just never know, but I'm sure he's glad that he got he's fulfilling his dream of playing in the NFL and, and those kinds of things. And, you know, sometimes like bad stuff happens even when you least expect it. So just like Jim Carrey is dead, like you could try to be as safe as you want, but then you could still lose your job anyway. So at least you want to go out, you know, living your dream, I think and that seems to be what you're doing. The other rule that you have in their money, you talk about money. This was a really fascinating chapter to me, especially I think you quoted Adam Carolla. Talking about envy, and how, you know, used to be. And this is how it was when I was a kid, my dad would kind of use success as a as a motivator and a tool like, Hey, you want to drive this car, you want to have this nice house, you got to work hard, you got to go to college. That was a big thing back then. And now it's like people reject that they reject accomplished people and successful people and complain about, you know, like, they're taking too much. And we're not getting our fair share and those kinds of things. So yeah, talk about that, like, because I think you grew up with a similar mindset. That was wealth was evil.

Andrew Thorp King:

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And I have a chapter in there called punk rock son of a preacher man, right. So my religious preacher, I was a punk rocker and kind of both sensibilities, the shewed kind of, you know, looking as money as a good thing and looking at wealth accumulation as a good thing. They both kind of shun them. I think what I learned over time is both sensibilities were really wrong. Like I'm still a punk rocker. I love that that culture. But I came more from the Hardcore scene more from like the New Yorker scene where it was like, You didn't just, you know, talk about a problem. You just didn't just thinking about a problem. You were looking for a higher solution. So like you had bands like shelter in the kromaggs and woking, even religion with the Hari Krishna faith, or you had, you know, the straight edge movement, you had these kind of like, yearnings for something higher some sort of solution, even if transcend transcendental, right. And, you know, for me, I think I eventually realized, well, you know, there are some parallels to money, right? The Love of Money, Money isn't the root of all evil, no, but the love of money can be right, if you go into the failure, Edge territories of either greed, which everybody, you know, looks at as being bad, but not enough people, I think, recognize that envy is truly kind of the equivalent, malevolent twins, a sibling of greed, they're one in the same poor people could be greedy, in their envy, in the same way that greedy people can be, you know, you know, ethically flawed, and, and, you know, morally deficient in their, you know, chase for money, where they're, you know, hurting people, right. And I think we really need to kind of recognize that, and at the same time, view, money out deal in the mid space, where you say, all right, money is an agnostic tool, it's not good or bad in and of itself. But if we can find a way to use it as a thank you note, where you know, every time we have a transaction, it's our, you know, our, it's us placing value on something that represents our measured thankfulness, then it can truly be a force multiplier of goodness of blessing of lifting people out of poverty, of providing a life for them, where they can find meaning and fulfillment, that's obviously still connected to us using our talents and giving them to the world. And I think seeing it holistically, through all its kind of dynamic touchpoints. And effects can really help us as we go about, you know, setting our goals and, and viewing our work life and how we earn and spend money. So, I mean, that's essentially what that chapter is about. It's the idea that valuable number three, money is spiritual, again, obviously, if used correctly, and yeah,

Chuck Shute:

yeah, well, because I think you can you people with a lot of money can also help the world a lot. I mean, what is the quote, like Gandhi, be the change you want to see in the world, like, so if you think people are too selfish with their money, then you need to be less selfish with your money in it be more generous, like, I don't know, if you go back to that football player, I hate to keep bringing that up. But there was a fundraiser for him. And the Washington commander's, which is like a $5.6 billion franchise donated $5,000. And this, you know, little mom and pop carpet store donated 5500, they donated more than the billion dollar franchise. So it just goes to show you like, I mean, just because you, you know, you can you can have money, and you can share that money and, and you don't need a lot to be to make a bigger difference than someone with a lot of money.

Andrew Thorp King:

That's right. That's right. And at the same token, a lot of money does give you more power to be more generous, right. So I think there's a double edge to that. And part of the motivation for many people I know who have been successful to have money is because they do have some higher, you know, what I would call a thing to Northstar news Northstar ambition. When I talk about failure Well, number four, think one of the thing to dependency, the one being your enabler pursuit that might help you reach your thing to aspirational Northstar dream I go through the example of billionaire John Huntsman grew up poor and in a poor household and built his companies the huntsman Corporation, which made you know the you know, those clam shell cases for McDonald's sandwiches. But his motivation was to eventually do something more altruistic, which was the Huntsman Cancer Institute, which has now done so much good for working towards a cure for cancer and helping cancer patients. and people suffering from cancer, where his goal now is even though he's a billionaire, his past, but its goal was to try to spend as much of that money as possible in that good, right. And so I think, you know, I think when you see people who view money that way, and then are successful and literally use it for that type of goodness, I mean, that's, it's a great model. And that doesn't have to be on that scale where you're a billionaire. I mean, you can be 100,000 air and still use that for lots and lots of good. And so, you know, I try to look at that as a guidepost model for my life.

Chuck Shute:

Ya know, it's just interesting. There's this whole, like, hatred for billionaires, that it seems to be going around lately, even though you know, it's like you talk about like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, like a lot of people do not like them. Because they're billionaires. And but yet I feel like those people contributed to society. They are created products that we all use. I mean, unless you're not using a computer and iPhone or Amazon, which you're missing out if you aren't, you know, so but I think the solution isn't to take money from them and to knock them billionaires down. I think it's more billionaires. I think we need more people, more entrepreneurs, more people competing, you know, what is Amazon's competition? What, we've got three, two different kinds of phones, iPhone or Android? Like, why isn't there like 1020 or 30 Different kinds of phones or computers like, and maybe then those pieces of the pie will even out there won't maybe Bezos and gates won't be billionaires, but maybe they'll still be wealthy, but there'll be more wealthy people not that'd be my theory on that.

Andrew Thorp King:

Sure, I think there's a couple of things there, right, I think the competition is it can be good. But at the same time, I think there's a higher kind of unique value and impact that can be found in trying to be you know, the only have something new versus the best of something old. So, Srinivas Rao, who's a writer I really respect. He's actually helping me out with some of my navigation of the book world now. He wrote the book, you know, only is better than best, which is also a concept Peter Thiel of the PayPal Mafia talks about in from zero to one. And it's the idea that you're not always you want to find that new space. And a lot of times, that's the intersection of two disparate ideas, right? And how you can make two things that don't seem to go together and have them go together, then you're the master and the only of those things going together. For a musical example, you could think of like, I don't know, like the Dropkick Murphys, like, they might not be the best punk band, they might not be the best Irish band, but they're probably one of the best Irish punk bands, you know, maybe flogging Molly's close second, who knows? Depending on your tastes, right? But it's that idea. And I think that even is more interesting and more expands the world. Right? So it's taking two disparate ideas, intersecting them and being the only of something new versus just competing against something No, but to your point, like, I mean, regardless of what you think of Jeff, Jeff Bezos, or these other billionaires, they absolutely have changed the world. And the reward for that should be at the scales at the scale by which the world has been changed by their ideas and their efforts. I mean, scale matters. It's not about how hard you work. It's talking about how smart you are, you know, luck is a factor too. But again, you know, luck is the residue of design, typically, under design produce something that is blessed a world in a highly scalable fashion. And I think the rewards should be as such.

Chuck Shute:

No, absolutely. I also, I'm also reminded of the Mark Cuban Why don't you said this, or he this is his original quote, but I've heard him say this. It's like when Hogs get fat, they get slaughtered. And sometimes these companies do get too greedy. And my my favorite example of this is blockbuster, because I remember I hated but I forget, I don't think people remember how much everyone hated blockbuster. Because now everyone looks back on it with such fondness like Oh, Blockbuster, the good old days. It's like no people hated blockbuster. They were such just jerks about the late fees and all that they charge you so much. And it was just they rip off and they would kill all the mom and pop video stores. And then Netflix came along and actually tried to do a deal with them. And they're like, No, we're too good for you. And then Netflix knocked them off the throne. It was amazing. I loved it. It made me so happy.

Andrew Thorp King:

I mean, we talked about this the perils and the dangers of overreach. Right? You get a monopolistic situation. It's very, you know, you're susceptible to that type of overreach and egregious, you know, kind of, you know, greed actions, right, which again, I talked about in the book. I mean, there's definitely this lane I'm trying to stay in where greed and envy are the edge territories or failure to stay out of, but you know, if you if you stay within the lane, money can be an amazing thing to live society up and to live individuals up even more important.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, so the fourth rule is the talk about the building Thing One and Thing Two. So it's like basically, the way I understood it was like your thing one is kind of like, basically the thing that's going to pay the bills and hope Play it relates to your pursuit, or your passion, which would be the thing to so like you have this dream, maybe you want to be an author. So then you're doing something during the day to help pay the bills. So you can work on writing a book.

Andrew Thorp King:

Right? So yeah, it's that idea. So from a very simplistic stance, it can be just that can literally just banging down a nine to five, as has, you know, could be very low meeting job. But it gives you that scaffolding that structure to then chase your dreams on the side with a little less risk and take a little more risk on what you're chasing on the side. But then there's more creative ways to approach that might accelerate a potential achievement of that Northstar dream. So I go through examples of you know, Chris ran from bridge nine records, who went out and his enable pursuit starbridge Nine Records was to start another company, he used a more a less passionate pursuit, he started Yankee sock making merchandise to sell the Boston Red Sox fans, and that money then underwrote like first 15 1617 breeds nine releases, some could say it's throwing good money after bad obviously, that was profitable, why would you throw it into something more risky, but he had to have the meaning and the passion for average nine to be fulfilled. And he used the money from a lower meaning pursuit to do that. So wasn't a nine to five. But it's still the thing. One thing to dependency for me, I've kind of had, you know, several different flavors of that. One was when I started out the music industry, I had jobs in the music sphere. So it was literally getting a paid education in the industry, media contacts networking, which tremendously helped me start my record labels, which, which I did on the side that night and the cracks of life. And then even now, with a more wider variety of pursuits that are disparate, I mean, even my job, you know, as an executive FinTech banker, today, the skills I learned there, and communication and project management, you know, dealing with the simultaneity of anything's happening at once, has really helped me lay out my multi year plan for, you know, promoting this book and all the things attached to the book. So like, you can really transpose skills, what seems to be a lonely job into your Northstar pursuit. And in the end, if you're actually reaching those goals, it makes the you know, that job or your enabler, pursuit, whatever it might be even more meaningful. There's a connectivity between the two and a synergy, where all of a sudden you have this rich narrative to tell about how you reached your Northstar pursuit. Back to the Brigidine story, what a cool story he tells. Alright, but that's how the label was really funded and started, and it gives more flavor and more texture to his story, which is awesome. So it's like that idea that you can't really always go straight at a pursuit. You have to kind of go certain secure, circuitous ly sometimes and do creative things to bring it into reality over time.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, so then for you, it's right now you're doing the banking is kind of your thing one, and then the book is thing too. Is that is that your ultimate thing too? Would you rather just be an author full time?

Andrew Thorp King:

Well, and everything attached to an author, writer and speaker, coaching, doing media stuff, merchandise company, I started with a two sole power supply company which echoes a lot of the, you know, the themes and ethos of the book, but I have other entrepreneurial things that I'll do too. But this is what I focus on for the next three, five years trying to build this up, build up an audience. And yeah, write other books. I also still own the record labels and still go in and out of activity with record labels, stored records and sales grade records. So for your audience thought records is work with bands like Mad Ball sheer terror slapshot, Blood for blood, sailors, graves worked with bands like Roger Breton, the disasters, the business, coffin cats, the creep show, goddamn gallows, and many others. I always have kind of like, two that are more like I think one of the thing too, but then also have either other ones that are supportive, but still active. And then, you know, I always have kind of redundancy of ideas waiting on the ready, should that need to be invoked, right? So there's always something I'm always thinking something to pivot to, or, or replace something if it if it needs to be

Chuck Shute:

okay. So find a rule number five is that you're not your failures. And you talk about like, using rejection as fuel. I love that because I definitely especially when I started the podcast, I was getting a lot of rejection, a lot of trolling and those kinds of things. And I use that stuff as fuel. For you personally, though, was there any rejections that you used as fuel, either positive ones like you like an almost band, a big band that you almost signed, or just like a really nasty thing, or you maybe wanted to prove that person wrong or something?

Andrew Thorp King:

A little bit, I don't find that proving people wrong is really good, healthy motivation. But at the same time, it can be a good way to prove to yourself that whatever was being kind of like spoken at you or projected to you is not true, right? To help you kind of like prove yourself necessarily,

Chuck Shute:

that's a better way to say it. Yeah.

Andrew Thorp King:

Somebody right.

Chuck Shute:

They probably don't care anyway. So

Andrew Thorp King:

I mean, I feel like revenge or proving somebody wrong is not really sustainable motivation. But it can be something that can really restore you buoy your own confidence in your On ability so when I, I owned with various partners over time online lending companies both on shore with a license Delaware and offshore with, with a license in the country of Belize, and that unraveled over time. And the last partner I had, there was all kinds of schisms that occur between the two of us. And he was pretty, you know, abusive in his depiction of my abilities from from a character assassination standpoint, he would, you know, kind of overpraise me when I was doing what he wants, or what things are going well, and then he would over devalue my efforts within a work. And so I think as I began to ascend in my my corporate career and in banking, in the FinTech space, just to contrast between how he kind of viewed my competency, and how my competency actually played out in the world, that was satisfying, but again, not in a revenge standpoint, just to know like, yeah, okay, I was stood that didn't believe it then, and further proved the reality that wasn't really accurate. As I stepped in when x plus two,

Chuck Shute:

I love it, blue. And so then was there any like, with your record label? For instance, was there any bands that you almost signed that you maybe got rejected, but it was like it was motivating? Because it was like, Wow, I almost got bad religion or whoever. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Thorp King:

Trying to think of one that. I mean, there was a bunch of those chasing after I don't even know if I almost got it, but I really kind of wanted, you know, that might have been looking for a label to strip point was competing. You know, there was time where I was talking to terror that never move forward. Yeah, but that was just, you know, there was a lot, a lot to go after. In those times. It's probably a little different now. Yeah. I never really let that trip me up. I mean, my issue was probably more a bit overzealous with spending on promotion on the big bands, I did get where even if they sold a lot. I, you know, I lost money for years before I recouped. Right. And that cause trouble. So, I mean, it was the over enthusiasm of trying to make a record pop, you know,

Chuck Shute:

okay, so then without record label did that. You still own that record label, like the music that you had on there is that on Spotify now getting some streams and some money or if you just sit

Andrew Thorp King:

there, you know, the one that was more of a catalog label Thorpe records definitely standing since 2009. But there's like 80 Something releases that I own the IP rights to so it's available on the streaming platforms, there's some physical product out in the market to sailors grave was more of an active focus, you know, after that, and so that too, is all still out there available. So they're still active and live and, you know, on the rights between the two labels with like, over 120 releases, and, you know, half as many merchandise, right, so, you know, and it's mostly passive income, but I go in and out of activity. So there's still some bands and I'm still connected with and working with at a more recent releases and active bands like the coffee cats, the goddamn gallows, flatfoot 56, who the divers, the Celtic punk band from Southside of Chicago, actually played my wedding. So there's still definitely, you know, connectivity there, it's just more focused. And I have the ability to kind of, you know, push, play and pause, you know, as I want to hear, but the revenue still keeps coming in. Okay.

Chuck Shute:

So like one of the things you talked about in the this is a good chapter, I think it's called when you hit a rock, let it push you into a new stream. And then you have a quote from JK Rowling obviously wrote the Harry Potter books or whatever. Rock bottom is a solid foundation I rebuilt my life on so I mean, you've had some, obviously some big obstacles, the divorce, the record label floundering. I think that at one point in the book, you talk about how you actually had to get on government assistance, even was that your rock bottom.

Andrew Thorp King:

I mean, that was part of it. I mean, that was part and parcel that follow personal bankruptcy that I went through, when the record labels, you know, basically, were underwater, and I didn't know that they would ever have value again, because the digitization of music and not mature and I could get that didn't know that that was gonna happen. And even if I knew it, like there's still no money that right like that, that took time to actually happen. But it enabled me to still have a record labels, but I had to go through a personal bankruptcy. I then you know, could not find a job if it was entrepreneurial minded anyway, in most jobs that I thought I could get work in to pay the bills the way I needed them to. So I went into financial planning that was killer be killed, started my own practice, and that was difficult. And I was in the Midwest and the two years into it the await financial crisis hit. I was in the auto belt, close to Detroit, Northwest Ohio, and mostly Jeep workers and they're canceling their accounts. And, you know, I was working hard all day all night, you know, wearing the suits. All the optics would look like there's no reason I should not be able to pay the bills or what have you. But I hadn't recovered the bankruptcy. The savings hadn't been there. I got burned through, and sales cycles went along, and I wasn't really getting the Commission's I needed. And yeah, I had to succumb to public assistance. And it was a real moment of shame for me. Not that I didn't need it. But it was it was in such furious conflict with my work ethic, it just didn't make sense. You know, he's literally doing everything I could and thinking of ways to reinvent myself, and I still fell for that, you know, and this idea of like, charity, filling in the gaps of people, you know, or family like that can help a little bit, the end of the day, like, I don't, you know, I don't think, you know, the government should really be, you know, artificially propping people up through that. But when, when the gaps are there, and they can't be funded through charity, and you're doing everything you can to try to find a way to pick her up by the bootstraps, you know, it was helpful. And I go through, there's examples. In the book about Stephanie Landrieu wrote the maid and there's Netflix show about her, I use kind of her examples of her experience being on public assistance, my own, Roger muret, from the band Agnostic Front, his upbringing of being on public assistance, and, and his thoughts on that and how he kind of really delineated between a hand up and egregious kind of abuse of the system. And so talking about those kinds of nuanced delicate views on the topic is in the book for sure.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, no, I think that you used it properly. I think that's how it was designed. Because I think when those programs first came out, I may be wrong on this, but I thought it was was an FDR, or one of the Roosevelt's and it was during the Great Depression, and then basically, people needed it to survive. And then of course, you know, we got through the Great Depression. And I think for you, you used it at a time when things were really bad, it was rough, you needed it, and now you're obviously not using it or not needing it. So why do you think that? You know, because the chapters called the the necessity of shame, food, six, food stamps, sock and gratitude rules? And using, you know, shame in a constructive way? Why do you think some people see I think that's the problem with the government assistance that we have in this country now is that some people never get off of it. And to me, it feels like, it's almost like a prison for them, like the government is keeping them down instead of propping them back up and saying, Okay, we'll help you get back on your feet. Now, let's figure out your purpose. Your thing, one more thing, too is you would say, why did it why was it easier for you, you think, rather, rather than other people, do you think they just don't have the motivation to do that?

Andrew Thorp King:

Well, I don't know. It was easier for me. But it was a shame that really motivated me, it was the idea that the disdain for your circumstances is the power you need to get out of them. It goes back to Benjamin Franklin's quote, where he says, I'm all for helping the poor, but the best way to help them is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty. I mean, you you don't let them starve, but you still need to have a degree of sharp discomfort to make you realize that this is not something that you ought to be sitting in and staying in and making a permanent part of your, of your of your life. Right. And so I think the discomfort and the healthy shame is absolutely necessary, doesn't mean you hate yourself, but you hate those circumstances, you want to get out of them. And that needs to be there for many people to get out of them. You find comfort in that you're gonna have real problems, and you will be a burden on the state, and you'll be a burden to yourself, you won't be actualizing your potential as a human being.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, and I don't think that people will be deep down happy with that. I feel like you know, we all have a purpose on this earth, whatever that may be. And that's not helping people find it. It's more like a numbing and a distraction. To just see like you said to stick keep them comfortable. And I don't know, I just it there's I find it just taste in that I think there's a balance between Hey, sink or swim, you're on your own Have a nice life. And you know, also just like, Okay, we're gonna pay for everything for you for the rest of your life. Like, there's gotta be something in the middle. So yeah, it was interesting that you brought that up that I was like, Well, this is somebody who use the assistance properly, how it's designed, and got back up. That's what I was hoping that you know, that that other people could do so to maybe hopefully be inspired from your story, if anyone's listening.

Andrew Thorp King:

Well, I appreciate that. And that was probably one of the toughest chapters for me to write. Because I'm embarrassed, absolutely embarrassed by it. Still, I mean, I, I have a hard time actually invoking federal number five, you will not your failures to that circumstance, right. It's very hard to decouple my identity from that failure having to be on public assistance. Ultimately, I have done that. But I debated whether I even wanted to reveal that let people know that about me in the book. And ultimately, I decided it was important. It was important that I speak about my thoughts on the topic and detail Yeah, that

Chuck Shute:

always makes for the best books is when people are most transparent and open. I mean, the closed and you just try to paint a picture of your life was great and perfect. It's like, that's not real because people will relate to this more because everybody's gone through that I mean, people If I was a counselor for 17 years, I've heard way or stories where people were on assistance, and they never got off of it. And that's to me that's way worse and so frustrating. So I thought it was cool in your book that you talk about that and how you, you move past it. And like you said, there's other examples of that, too. So just kind of neat to hear that hopefully inspiring for some people.

Andrew Thorp King:

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, it's cool stuff. What is another thing you talk about? Oh, this Yeah. Because like this kind of goes back to that, like using the shitty cards that you're dealt, to motivate yourself. I think that is something that a lot of people don't understand. Because we all get cards dealt in life. And we don't get to choose those. You could be born super good looking, and super athletic, and super rich and all and some people were born poor. But if you're if you have bad cards, you can use that as fuel to motivate you. So I feel like that's almost an advantage. For some people. A lot of the stories that I've heard a lot of the most successful people had horrible upbringings terrible things that you know, through the Holocaust and things like that, were they lived through that, and and then they they use that as an inspiration to do that. Talk about that. Yeah, how people can use bad cards of their Delta motivate themselves.

Andrew Thorp King:

Yeah. So you know, that quote that I use, there was a conversation between Joe Rogan and Tim Poole and the Joe Rogan show. And you know, I think of like, you're right, I think that is a key component to many very motivating stories of people that descend into greatness. I mean, David Goggins being one of them. And you have yes, they're, they're perfect, that his, you know, background of the abuse, the racism he encountered, because of his father, the alcoholism of the Father, the, you know, all the things that he had to overcome, that drove him. And it was channeling that anger into the, into that those healthy pursuits that made him who he was, I don't believe he'd be who he was, if he didn't have that background. Now, you could have somebody else with that background, and they're gonna crumble, and they're gonna disintegrate, and they're gonna fall into addiction, and they're gonna come, you know, continue cycles. So it really is up to the individual. But I do think that more often than not, a lot of these great stories of ascension come from that, certainly people of privilege of means of, of advantages can still become great, for sure that happens. But it's also by thinking to reason that we look at those that had advantages, and privilege, and memes. When they don't use it. It's so sad, because you compare that to somebody that didn't have that, and found a way through grit and determination and sheer defiance of their circumstances, to ascend into greatness. And so I think it makes it even more sad when you see somebody who has advantages and fails to use them to to lift themselves up into to find their highest usefulness in the world.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, and one of the things you said in here that I wrote down, is really simple, but a big sign of success. Perseverance. I mean, it really is so simple. I feel like it's, it's a kind of a lost concept. For a lot of people, especially this younger generation, it's like, okay, I graduated college, I want to be I'm ready to be the CEO now. And it's like, they don't understand, you gotta like, keep going and go, you're gonna like, again, the book, you're going to fail several times along the way, but you have to keep going. And that's what I that's a lesson that I've tried to understand and learn myself because I would get frustrated. If I wasn't good at something right away. I would just be like, okay, screw this. I'm done. I'll try something else. But I think a lot of times you got to fail, pick yourself back up and just keep persevering. Keep going nuts. When I started this podcast, I was like, Okay, I'm giving this at least five years before I decide if it was worth it or not.

Andrew Thorp King:

at all, but in one timeframe. That's what you need the horizon, right? I mean, people go, how's the book done, like what only came out three months ago, it's exactly where it needs to be where I expected to be at this stage. But I don't really know what it is for like another three years because it's a multi year plan, you have to give it time, there's gonna be a lot of experimentation and failures of attempts to promote the book in that timeframe and see what the pot you have to give things time. You have to keep going back at it, keep returning it, turning to it, you know, it's the idea of of pivoting, right, which is an overused term, but essentially that's not changing your vision, but iterating your strategy along the way to reach the vision and that's what you have to do and I think a lot of people don't understand that they expect this linear ascension you know, stair climb it's not how it is man it's often the zigzag it's a climb three steps get knocked down to yes sideways in a crawl back sideways climb up three more oh shit that steps got a hole in it. I mean, it's all it's all an adventure man. It's all going to be full of peril and you're constantly have to overcome and for me, like listen to hardcore music. That's been a strength for me because a lot of the music I listen to the main theme is overpower, overcome. You know, it's keep going. It's perseverance like a credo and perseverance you know? That's like a key theme that always keeps me going. I always enjoy the challenge of I do I enjoy the challenge.

Chuck Shute:

No, that's perfect. I love what you said about you step make take three steps and then get knocked down. A few. I just remember, like, one of my first big guests, I had David to company, actor, you know, on my show, and I was like, I made it. I'm like, I'm a huge podcaster. Now I've got David to come in. It's like, yeah, like the David accompany guests. They don't come along, like every week. So it's like, okay, kind of get knocked down a few. climb back up, get some bigger guests. But yeah, it goes like that. You're right, it's you take a few steps up, and then a few steps down. The other part of this chapter I really liked was the talk when you talk about accepting division, and failure and stain great, like you say how the best art divides the audience, like half people will love it. Half the people hate it. You know, because if everyone's just in agreement with everything, it's usually not that grades. very bland. I kind of struggle with this. I'll be honest with you, because on the one hand, I think sometimes I'm like, I want my podcast to bring people together. But I also worry because I'm like, Well, I don't want to get political on my podcast, and state my opinions that might be divisive. And even we're talking about like, the welfare thing. I'm like, I probably could lose some people for my views on that. But see, I also think like, Well, I gotta be authentic. So how do you kind of balance that?

Andrew Thorp King:

For me, I balance it by you know, especially about political stuff. By going back to personal ethos, right. I think, you know, the old saying that politics is downstream from culture, I think culture is downstream of personal ethos. So just forget about politics, and all of that, just talk about the philosophical root considerations of of an issue. And people can have political extractions all day long for that, but it's about the actual conversation. I mean, so somebody just listen to our conversation about public assistance. I think it'd be hard for an intellectually honest person to paint either to anything we just talked about, as being, you know, you know, I don't know, really political or even hateful, or anything like that. Right. And I think, at the same time, authenticity has to still be, you know, the highest value and authenticity, you know, with integrity, right? I mean, there can be people who are authentic assholes. I mean, that's not really good thing, right.

Chuck Shute:

But a lot of those, those are all the top podcasters

Andrew Thorp King:

authenticity with some humility, authenticity, with some integrity, authenticity, still with an open mind, right? Without being stuck in these ideological ruts. Doesn't mean that you don't have ideology, but over identifying with that stuff, I think really holds us back.

Chuck Shute:

Because I just see, I think that it's like, how do you stand out? Right, because I feel like in this market right now with in terms of whether you're talking about social media, movies, TV, music, podcasts, books, it's a flooded market with all that stuff. So how do you stand out? So I feel like the people that stand out the most are the craziest? I mean, if you look at like the what was one of the biggest stories a week ago, is, you know, Andrew Tate is trolling Greta Thun, Berg, and she. Salman says he has a small dick energy and all of us. And that was this huge. I mean, that tweet, I don't know how many millions of views and likes the thing had, but it's to NASA to each other. What impact anybody's

Andrew Thorp King:

life. I mean, does that really matter to us? Right? I mean,

Chuck Shute:

that's right. But that's, that's, they're both two of the most famous people right now. So it's frustrating because I'm like, I want to do the right thing. I want to bring people together. I want to help people. I want to help people find their own purpose there Thing One and Thing Two, and all that. And it's just like, do I need to be an asshole to do that? I don't want to be an asshole, because that's not being authentic myself.

Andrew Thorp King:

No, you're right. This is not a simple topic. But I think what I'm talking about in the book is when divisiveness is an unavoidable byproduct of you being authentic with integrity, where it's unavoidable. I'm not talking about seeking out device to this mean, that's what you're talking about many people who exploit divisiveness to become famous to get it. Yeah, we're not talking about that. I'm talking about being authentic with integrity, hoping that it will bring people together, but not watering it down or diminishing it in fear that it also might divide and then being at peace with divisiveness, if it naturally comes because you're at peace with what you created and what you put out in the world. And you did it with the right intentions. And it's authentic, and it's truly what you believe are truly what you need to express. I mean, the quotes you you mentioned, they were from Rick Rubin, the record producer, right. And I talked about some of the artists that he has on his, from his, you know, he's worked with I mean, in the dichotomies of them, but they all many of them were divisive, but they're authentic. Many of them mean, you think of the, you know, the politics of Kid Rock versus m&m Very different. You think of the religious orientations of Slayer versus Johnny Cash. Very different, right? But they were all produced by Rick Rubin all a little bit edgy and divisive, but authentically with integrity, right. And I think that's the kind of idea of talking about is just don't diminish your water down in your art because you're trying to be all things to all people at the same time. You know, don't be divisive for the sake of being divisive, because that's really going to be you know, a shallow output and really not not to anything, anybody any good. I

Chuck Shute:

don't think yeah, it just seems like now everything is divided whether we wanted to or not, like everything will be like people get put into a category. Oh, you're a conservative. Oh, you're

Andrew Thorp King:

a liberal.

Chuck Shute:

Regardless of Oh, you're hanging out with this person? What was it like the it was like Ellen DeGeneres hanging out with George Bush people went apeshit. Like, what is she doing hanging out with a horrible person like that? And then, you know, people, his fans or followers or whatever, saying, Why are you hanging out with Ellen DeGeneres? And you know, they just it's like, this hatred for each other instead of like you said, I love that Rick Rubin works with a variety of people with, you know, conservative guy like Johnny Cash, who is Christian and then like Slayer who's?

Andrew Thorp King:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, just give me a very personal example. So I'm in what is essentially, you know, a bipartisan interfaith marriage, right. So I am, you know, more libertarian oriented, slightly to the right, I am a Christian, although I probably not a good one, I smoke drink. But, you know, you know, I am no go to church or anything like that, but spiritual in that regard. And, you know, my wife is a staunch Democrat. She is Jewish, by ethnicity, but she's, she's not religious. She's more agnostic, more associates with the Buddhist philosophy is a practical living guideline. And, you know, we, those are things that we learned from each other on, we've never changed each other. We've never tried to change each other. We respect each other deeply without arguing over those things. I mean, I mean, if the world could be like, our marriage would be great. I mean, so it's like, that's kind of where I come from. I know,

Chuck Shute:

I yeah, I learned that. That's why I do the podcast. Yeah, I can be changed

Andrew Thorp King:

my own ideas, but be open to other ones and learn from them? Well, I still, you know, not I weren't learned things about Buddhism, the things that do not conflict with my own faith, and add to them, I find lots of wisdom. And, you know, there's things from all over the political spectrum that I can find value on, right? It's, I think, the idea of putting on a jersey for, you know, one side of the other of any sort of dichotomy is limiting. And I think you can have an open mind, but still have some core beliefs that rarely change, they still might change, but you can still have kind of some some abiding core beliefs, and be open to the idea that there's some nuances you need to learn that might inform how you would change over time.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, I think if just people can listen to each other, I think it'd be better for the world, but also for themselves, because I think you can learn a lot from listening to people who are different than you people, different backgrounds. I mean, I've learned so much from doing this podcast, talking to people have all sorts of different backgrounds. And it's fascinating. I love hearing their opinions. And even though sometimes I might not agree, sometimes they say things in a funny, I mean, I've had some comedians who are super liberal, and I think they're hilarious. I've had Ted Nugent, who is clearly not liberal. And I think he's hilarious. Like, they're just really interesting people. So I love that. I love that. And you, you are do a good job of that. In the book you have, you know, Stephen Colbert, and you have people who are conservative that you show examples. It's not biased in any way. It's very both sides, which is really cool. How do you here's a question I have for you that wasn't really in the book, or maybe a little bit, maybe it is kind of in the book. And maybe it's just not a certain chapter. But like knowing when to shift. Like I heard Joe Rogan talking about this, I can't remember who he was talking to. But he was talking about how success is kind of like what you're saying it's not always linear. And sometimes you have to kind of change paths, like how do you know when to not necessarily maybe give up, but maybe shift your strategy, like with my podcast, for example, let's say, after five years ago, well, it didn't really turn out the way I wanted it to. That doesn't necessarily mean I need to give up on the podcast, maybe it means means I need to shift it into a different format, or different kinds of guests are making a murderer podcasts. I don't I don't know. Like how do you know when it's time to shift something, though?

Andrew Thorp King:

I don't know that there's a formula to know how to know when to know, right? But I do think that if you go into it with a knowledge that you have to be flexible, and you have to make a plan, but with an intent to iterate, right. So I have a chapter, you know, make a plan with intent to iterate really, and it's, it's taking kind of these two quotes, like the one from Peter Thiel, from zero to one where he says, you know, you know, a plan, a bad plan. To better no plan at all, you have to have a plan. And then Mike Tyson plans great to get punched in the mouth. Right? So it's like on the one hand, have a plan, have a framework go after some, but prepare to iterate when you get punched in the mouth or when things don't work. And I think if you go into it with that attitude, you're already setting yourself up with, you know, the flexibility underneath the unchanging overarching goal. So you have that overarching goal. And maybe even you have criteria by which you abandon that overarching goal. But it's over time after a certain amount of reasonable iteration. Right. And so I think it's thinking about it in that way. So for like, for me with the book, it's like, Alright, here's my overarching goal, to build an audience over three to five years, so that when I write future books, there's a built in audience to learn how to market a book, that goal is not going to change at least for three to five years, and I'll reevaluate within those three to five years, there's all kinds of things I'm going to do to try to reach that goal. And they're gonna shift around based on success and, and risk and spend and all these other things. And I'm going to play in that sandbox for three to five years and then evaluate the overarching goal. So if you're thinking of things in that kind of structured way with layers, and If This Then That, I think, then that's a good way to set yourself up, either for success or to learn a whole lot. And potentially through that process, find the adjacent possible and figure out what you need to do in terms of shifting and and a certain inflection point.

Chuck Shute:

How did you learn how to write a book get signed to a publisher market the book, how did you learn all this stuff?

Andrew Thorp King:

I'm still learning. The book was like, you know, Ryan Holiday, the great, you know, author, Populi, stoicism, who I love. I mean, he talks about, you know, writing a book is two marathons, the first marathon marathon is the writing the production, you know, the iconography of the book, the editing, all that stuff. There's a lot that goes into that took me seven years to write this over a year with the editing process with the editing team over at Lyon crest publishing. So that was a huge marathon. That was a learning experience and of itself, then it's like the baton gets passed. Now it's a second marathon. Now, gotta learn how to sell the book, build an audience, you know, do the podcast and media tour, figure out what works there, figure out how to fine tune an Amazon ad campaign, figure out all the other ways to monetize a coaching speaking, you know, hopefully, at some point online courses, you know, the merchandise company, all these other things, it's going to take a long time. So people look out what you ready to write the next book and like not to I learn how to optimally sell books in general. So, you know, this is my 100% focus is to figure out how to do that over the next three to five years. So I don't have the answer that I don't know that anybody has a surefire answer. But there is a lot of help out there. You know, and I'm looking to as many mentors as I can, to help me do that people who've gone through it in the space and have their own unique wisdom to share.

Chuck Shute:

That's awesome. I love it, love to hear it. Here's a random question though. Since we're wrapping up here, I do want to ask you about like cigars. So for like, I'm like a novice, I occasionally like a good cigar. What's what's a good cigar to start with?

Andrew Thorp King:

I'll go with something maybe like to medium body, you know, something that Connecticut wrapper wouldn't go into double or triple Maduro might make you sick. But, you know, for me, I like a lot of box press cigars. You know, I'm smoking in my father right now, this is one of my favorite brands. I like a lot of their different sticks, very light and fluffy, delicious burns well and holds a good ash. But you know, you just got to kind of try it out. I think best to like, touch and feel and try them out and go to your local tobacconist and see what they recommend and go from there. But you know, for me, like, I think you can find a lot of good sticks that are in like the eight to $12 range. You don't want to go lower than that. You're gonna be smoking trash bags. If you go too high. You're probably spending money on something that, you know, maybe you're not there yet, you know? So

Chuck Shute:

are the Cubans. Is that really worth it? Or is that just like a like a urban legend? Is it really are the Cubans really the best cigars?

Andrew Thorp King:

I mean, they're not bad. They're just from a different country. But I mean, the tobacco coming out of Dominican Nicaragua works quite well for me. So I think it's kind of a forbidden fruit thing.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, gotcha. Cool. Well, I always end each episode promoting a charity. I think you do have one, right?

Andrew Thorp King:

Yeah. So if I think of charities, one that I would, I always think is really cool. It's Dennis Leary. You know, he's on the show with me and then yeah, my favorite shows ever. He has a Leary's firefighters charity to help the firefighters. I would say that'd be a charity that Okay, that's cool,

Chuck Shute:

because I've already I've already promoted that like twice because I had on Michael Lombardi who was in rescue me, and he promoted

Andrew Thorp King:

What's that? You had him on the show? And that's all Yeah, yeah,

Chuck Shute:

he was in this movie that retaliate errs, and I think I had the screenwriters on from that movie, too. I think they might have promoted that one as well. So cool. I think that's awesome. Hopefully people will donate to that one. And and of course by Your book I got it on, I got a free copy of the PDF. But then I saw it was on Audible and I was like, I'm just gonna have credits on there. So I was like, I just got it on Audible. It's way easier. I listen to double speed, and just flew right through. It was amazing. So I recommend it. Good stuff. Thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it. Anything else you want to promote? Yeah, I

Andrew Thorp King:

would just say go to Andrew Thorpe king.com. No, Ian, the inner Thorpe. From there you can get into everything I'm doing connect with me on Instagram connected my YouTube channel where I have a lot of produce videos kind of animating the ideas the book, my merchandise company sold on fire Supply Company, kick ass designs that echo the ethos of the book. Also, you can sign up for a free failure wolf mini course at the website where you'll get some good distilled content and then you'll get weekly emails from me with some failure wisdom nuggets. And yeah, I'd say that's it.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, cool. Thanks so much. I'll get this episode up soon. Appreciate it. Thank you. Sorry, I feel it or Andrew. By my thanks again to Andrew and his publicist for setting this up. The book is available on Amazon or if you'd like to listen like me that I recommend getting it on Audible. Buy the book, write a nice review post about it on social media. Help Andrew out. Speaking of helping people out, make sure to follow Andrew on Instagram or Twitter. You can follow me too on there if you haven't already. Of course, your likes, shares, comments, all that stuff, help out on social media and also on YouTube. So make sure to subscribe to my podcast wherever you listen. I recommend YouTube because that's where I'm focused on growing the most right now. I appreciate all your support for myself and for the guests. Have a great day and shoot for the moon.