Chuck Shute Podcast

John Norum (Europe, ex Dokken)

November 25, 2022 John Norum Season 4 Episode 300
Chuck Shute Podcast
John Norum (Europe, ex Dokken)
Show Notes Transcript

John Norum is a singer, songwriter and guitarist.  He is most known for being the guitarist in Europe but also spent time with both the band Dokken & Don Dokken solo.  He also has maintained a successful solo career as a singer and guitarist.  His latest solo album "Gone to Stay" is available now.  We discuss the new album, future music with Europe, working Don Dokken, almost joining UFO and more!

00:00 - Intro
00:41 - John's Voice & Singing
03:11 - Early Musical Days
05:46 - Phoenix Connections
07:30 - Touring Plans & Live Shows
11:58 - Face The Truth Revisited
13:40 - Norma & Hollywood
16:40 - Solo Albums & Record Labels 
18:30 - Leaving Europe in the 80s
22:30 - Working with Don Dokken
25:25 - Flirting with Joining U.F.O.
29:15 - New Europe Album & Tour
30:43 - Solo Music Videos
33:54 - Starving Children Charity
35:30 - Outro

John Norum website:
https://johnnorum.se/

Europe band website;
https://www.europetheband.com/

Unicef website:
https://www.unicefusa.org/

Chuck Shute website:
http://chuckshute.com/

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Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!

Chuck Shute:

Crazy here we are episode 300. It's I can't believe it's been that many, but we made it. So we have a great guest today, John Norham, guitarist from the band Europe. And he also was in dokkan for a brief time and played with Don Dokken solo band as well. And of course, he has a solo career of his own. He's got a new album out now called gone to stay, which he plans to do some live shows for as well as new shows and music with Europe upcoming. So we're going to talk about all this and more coming right up.

John Norum:

Yeah, hi, Chuck. How are you? Good. How are you? I'm excellent.

Chuck Shute:

Okay, that's good. I'm glad I figured it out. You You guys have an interesting. The number I was given did not work to call you. I had to google how to call to Sweden from the US. I apparently have to exit the US telephone system. It was a whole thing. But I figured it out.

John Norum:

Good, good.

Chuck Shute:

So yeah, so you have a new album out, gone to stay. So I guess we'll start off with talking about that. You know what, it's kind of interesting listening to you. You know, you like guitar players. They just do instrumental but you actually sing. And you have a really good voice. I think it sounds like a cross between Chris Cornell and David Coverdale.

John Norum:

Thank you, thank you very much. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're, you know, a huge influence on me is just Coverdale and Chris Cornell and a few others like Phil Lennox, you know, David Bowie. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. I like to say Glenn Hughes, of course. Yeah, I like to kind of uh, not so much. Like metal singers, you know, screamers. I'm more into like, more like a low wagon lower range. Kind of like the homolog in UFO is one of my favorites. And you know, guys like that. So yeah, mainly guys from the 70s.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. Now, you? You originally started out wanting to be a singer too, right?

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah. Well, when I was very, when I was a kid, you know, wanted to be Elvis. You know, would it be like Elvis? You know, because my mom was playing, you know, she played guitar and play those Elvis records at home all the time, and was like, wow, this is really cool. So, so So actually, I started off, started off singing and singing along to all these albums and stuff like that. So with the lead, but then later on, I heard the purples made in Japan, and Richie Blackmore, you know, and then I was totally blown away. I was totally sold on the guitar solo thing. So that's how it all started. You know, when I started, like, I wanted to, I want to learn how to play like Richie Blackmore, you know, so that's how it started.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah. So were you playing, I thought already tell the story where you're playing guitar? And did you guys have drums and stuff in an apartment building, and you had to get permission from the neighbor? I've never heard of that. I've never heard about having an abandoned apartment building.

John Norum:

It's true. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. When I looking back when I look back at it now, you know, it's pretty insane. But you know, when, when you're at that age, you know, you just kind of, you know, there's no limitations. And you know, you're very ambitious. And, yeah, so we went on and asked all the neighbors around the neighborhood and knocked on every door and asked if he was okay for us to rehearse, in my, in my room, you know? And they said, Yeah, sure, between, you know, when we are when we are at work, which is, you know, like in the afternoon, between two or three o'clock, so we only have like, we're now like an hour to play. Sometimes my mom was home, you know, from work, and she, he had to deal with all the noise in there, you know, the drums and everything. So yeah. It was fun. It was fun time. We had a good time. And that's how we started and we were mainly just playing cover songs.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, that's unusual, too, though. And in Sweden, they were so supportive of music because wasn't at the time music, especially rock music was kind of frowned upon, like you were more encouraged to do like sports and things like that.

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I can't believe it now when I look back at it that they actually allow us to do that, you know, I mean, it's pretty, pretty crazy. But yeah, they were very supportive. You know? We did some gigs around there, the neighborhood there, we've played outside this big apartment building out in the yard there. And and so they were very supportive. And I don't know if it would work. It was different back then. I don't know. I don't know if that will work today. But who knows?

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, it seems like it might be. It might be easier today in some ways, because I feel like it's easier to get a equipment and maybe cheaper. And then there's a more programs and things that like, like, I'm in Phoenix, and so we have like Alice Cooper school rock where kids can come and play music and yeah, so there's lots of things like that.

John Norum:

Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. So you're in Phoenix, Phoenix. Wow, I missed that. Now. I can. I mean, we had this for just dreadful snowstorm here yesterday. And you know, the power has been down and everything. So when you say Phoenix is like, oh, man, I wish I could be there. Yeah. And will when the sun is always shining. Yeah. And it makes me think of, yeah, and it makes me think of, you know, Mick Brown, you know, the darkened drummer. He lives in Phoenix. We used to at least and Yeah. I saw you watch Lynch as well. I think George Lynch lives there, too. Yeah, from Doc. And you know,

Chuck Shute:

right. Yeah. No, Nick Brown is friends with Mark Scott, who's the drummer and trickster? And yeah, I think I've run into a couple times. I haven't seen George Lynch, but, and you worked with obviously Don Dokken. So you kind of know that whole crew then?

John Norum:

Yeah, I do. Yeah, I've been to Phoenix many times. We play there. A plane to a dark and I can remember when, yeah, it's a great place. I have some fond memories from Phoenix. Yeah. Yeah. Happy to around you. We have this after party after that show. And I remember that that particular one I remember. Like, like it was yesterday, for some reason. It just really stands out. You know, just being Phoenix and you know, very nice place.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, we're known for our parties, that's for sure. Yeah. You won't be touring the states with your solo band, though? Well, yeah.

John Norum:

I don't know. I mean, it would be fun to do. But at the moment, there's no plans. But you'll never know, you know, if something comes up, you know, now and that would be would love to do that. It would be a lot of fun. And even, you know, even as an opening act for someone else would be great. But at the moment, we are planning to do the band Europe, we're planning to do a 40th anniversary tour next year. No, you know, what's going to happen if we're going to be in the States or if we're going to be when we're going to be actually I have no idea that he's going to be for 40 years, next year, since the first album was released. In 1983. I can't believe it's been 40 years. Pretty crazy when I look back at it now. This time, time just flies by when you're having fun, you know?

Chuck Shute:

Wow. Yeah. 40 years and was on your birthday, too. Right? Easy to remember.

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's the only release. You know, it's the only release date that I can remember. Because it was my birthday. Yeah, the first album came out February 23. He made to me 83. So, yeah, it's been, it's been a good journey and a lot of fun. Yeah, so I'm really I'm really looking forward to that. But I have some solid dates as well in Europe. I might do some few festivals with my solo band, and, and hopefully we will go to Japan as well. Touring there.

Chuck Shute:

Now that's even think of the if you could get catch on with an opening as an opening act with a band that would make sense for you to come to the States for sure.

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah, that was that would be great. That makes it that that makes me think of a Gary Moore you know, when he when he was in the 80s when he was in the States touring, you know, he was opening up for us. He was Def Leppard he went out with and, you know, it's that kind of, you know, a million you know, I don't really care who it is. I mean, it's just fun to come out and play, play for people.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, now if you go out Uh, with your solo band, you're bringing a singer because I know you sing on the album, but you won't sing live, or will you sing any songs live some maybe?

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah, actually, yeah, we've been we've been playing and we've been rehearsing. You know, because we have two gigs coming up now on December 1. Now I'm going to sell to American next week with Europe. We're doing three shows there and then have two shows two solo gigs in December 14 and 16th. December and so yeah, we've been rehearsing and it's going, going really, really well. I mean, I've seen a sing the songs that are that are on the new album, you know, I think those songs and even though a couple of songs from the 80s that I sang, but made that but mainly the most of the vocals is the is the guy that is on the album, that's just the guessing on the album, Augustine Nielsen Norwegian guy is very, very, very good. Because I can't sing the songs that Kelly Keeling sang and then you staying on some of those soul elements that I did in the 90s because I don't have that range, you know, how much lower voice my range is more kind of like, you know, but I was surprised when we rehearsed like, a few days ago that actually actually this all year wasn't there. So I did have some of those songs that Glen sang and and Kelly Keeling saying saying and I could actually do it you know, I can actually come up with a you know, rage but but you know, it's not really my thing to do. I think, like I said before, in the lower range and like to do with more kind of a blues, blues type of the more bluesy stuff.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, well, you you do a bluesy version of face the truth on this album you face the truth revisited, I think is what you call it. It's this bluesy, slow down version, very way different than the original. It's pretty cool. What made you think of doing that?

John Norum:

Yeah, I mean, I, I was just, I was just messing around in the studio, and I was about to do like an overdub, I think it was a guitar solo on another song. And while the engineer was just, you know, fiddling around with the knobs and stuff, I was just playing it face to truth, like, you know, with a clean sound like, like, just messing around, slow. And then he said, like, what is that? Well, that's an old song I recorded like 30 years ago, we wrote row with Glenn Hughes, we recorded on this hour on the face of truth and like, Oh, really, that's, that's really cool. You know? Maybe we should record it now. You know, I don't want to, I don't really want to do it already done it, you know, like, but but then he recorded it, push the record button. And I just played it like slow and and then I just left it at play for like, a minute or so. And I just left it. And then, you know, after I was done with the other song, let me listen back to that. And listen back to is like, this is kind of interesting. He was so worse. And so that's how it started. That's how I got the idea to do do it slow version of the song. And it was supposed to be just a bonus track for Japan. But the record company liked it so much. They wanted to put it on the album. And so that's what we did.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, no, that's a cool one. And then the song Norma talk about that one because that has a really cool guitar solo, and a really cool, like riff change at the end. But as normal, is that a fictional person or is it based on some in real life? The lyrics like nowhere to run? She killed the pain. What is that about?

John Norum:

Yeah, it's actually it's about Marilyn Monroe, Nora. Norma Jean. Oh, sure. And yeah, it's about it's about her her story. Basically, when it comes to Hollywood and you know, what can happen to people that come to Hollywood in one of the movie stars and things like that, and it doesn't always turn out. Good in the end, you know, so yeah,

Chuck Shute:

did you did you did you ever live there in the 80s or anything or have you always lived over in Europe?

John Norum:

No, no, I lived I've lived in California for 10 years. Oh, wow. From Yeah, actually a little bit more than 10 years. I think it was like 1212 13 years. Yeah, when I when I got the gig with the with Don dark and I was supposed to be in California for a while Los Angeles for for too long. on record the up from the ashes album, but I ended up staying for 12. Because I liked it so much, and I met, you know, I met my wife there, and we had a kid together. And so I decided to stay in. So I stayed there, I stayed there until I got, I got the phone call from Ian howgill and the job in Europe and suddenly, you know, what they will they were going to have a meeting and talk about a European Union. He asked me if I was interested to come to this meeting and said, Sure, you know. So yeah, I lived in California for a long time. And actually, I just moved back to Sweden because of their European reunion, because that's where that's where they are. I'm gonna stay there. Yeah, yeah. But at the same time, you know, when you get a little bit older, too, you know, I was missing my family and stuff. And I've been I've been to California for so long. And I wanted to actually the last couple of years, we we did like half and half, I was six months in California and six months in Sweden, in the summertime in Sweden is beautiful in a beautiful place. In the winter, it's kind of it's kind of cold and depressing and dark and everything. So so in the winter, we kind of escaped to California, and we were there, you know, in winter time. And but then when the reunion happened, I just decided to stay in Sweden.

Chuck Shute:

So were you so you did the Don Dokken album and and then the rest was just solo albums you're working on when you're living in California then?

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah, I did. I did have faith through there. I did, we can use. And there was I think that was a 91 or 92. And then I did another. The next one was another destination, which was our cane. I think it came out in 95. And then the other one, the next one was worlds away, which I think came out in 97. So yeah, all those elements were done in the States.

Chuck Shute:

As you did I hear you say something that you worked with Mike Varney of trapnell record records, and it didn't go so well. Because I've had like Bluestar Cena and Richie Kotzen. And I don't think they said anything bad. But I heard you say that he took too much royalties or something like that.

John Norum:

Well, he never said any royalty statements ever, you know. You know? Yeah. So but, you know, I don't want to say anything bad about him. But you know, yeah, the business side of things. Were not that great. You know, and, but he did, he did release one of the one of the albums. I think it was another destination, which came out in 95. Yeah, he released that one in the States. And the ones before that I did total control and take the truth. We're on the Sony or CBS, the first one on CBS. But then later on, you know, became Sony. And and the next one I am the next one was the third solo album, what was the one that Mike only released? Shrapnel records?

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, so you must have learned a lot being in the music business this long, like, do you look back is are there certain things like clarity you have? Like, I mean, the biggest thing for me that I'm sure you get asked this question all the time, but the first time that you left Europe, right after the biggest album, I mean, that's so unusual. I know there was a lot of I heard there was some like egos and there was management issues. Do you look back? Is there something you would have done differently? Would you have fired the management or you try to work it out with your bandmates? Or are you happy with that decision to leave at that time?

John Norum:

Very happy with it. I mean, no, that's the best thing I have done in my career to leave the band leave that band at that time. So for many reasons, like you like you said, I mean, the management problems were a lot of man, you know, didn't get along with the manager. I mean, I do like that whole image bubble gum image thing. And you know, the guys in the band you know, they were getting all weird and stuff and and and, but you know, I mean I and also I mean you know, if I wouldn't have left I wouldn't have come to California wouldn't have had the opportunity to work with Don Dokken and in Peter Baltus and Billy white you know and Nick Ed and make that album and then also do work with Glenn Hughes. You know, on my my second solo, I will face the truth and and of course, if I And then of course, my son, you know, I mean, you know, I wouldn't have met my, my wife there. I mean, I wouldn't have met my wife and we wouldn't have had our kid, you know, so it was the best thing that could have happened at the time. So I have no no regrets whatsoever. And, and a lot of people have kind of a misconception of the whole thing, too. I mean, they don't really know the whole whole story, which is understandable. But the thing was, there's a lot of people that says, He left right before they made it big, like, No, when I was in the band, I already toured, you know, all of Europe. We were in Japan, we did a tour in Japan, we did a tour in Scandinavia. The album was already number one in 25 countries when I was in the band. But at the time, you know, I was, I didn't care I just wanted, I just wanted to, you know, get away from from the whole thing, you know, it was just wasn't my thing at the time. But plus, I was very young, you know, so I didn't really know how things work and, and how much work you have to do and do all these playback shows in Europe and all these sort of sessions from morning till late at night. And this and that, and it was just too much. I wasn't I wasn't ready for it really?

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, it just makes you wonder, though, like, and nothing that I had key Marcel on the show. He's great. And I like the album that he did with Europe, too. But it just makes me wonder if you had stayed? What would you guys would have created for the follow up? If it would have been different if your contributions would have made a difference? Or maybe it would have just been similar? I don't know.

John Norum:

I think it would have been pretty similar, I think. Because I mean, the main songwriter in the band was, was Joe Tempus, at the time, you know, the, you know, since the reunion, we all been writing a lot together, you know, but at the time, Joe, we pretty much wrote pretty much 90% Of all the songs, you know, so the songs would have probably been pretty much the same, I guess, you know, but I can't even think about that, you know, I never even thought about that. I'm just so glad that I left when I left. And, and I mean, it's just such an amazing experience to to, to record that album with Don Bach. And we have so much fun on that tour. I mean, to this day, that's the most fun tour I've ever done. I mean, it was incredible, great bunch of guys. And the band was incredible live. And so yeah, it was it was the right decision for sure.

Chuck Shute:

Do you think though, so? You I heard you say that you kind of argued with Don? Was that on his solo record? Or was that more when you actually joined doc in the band? Because you said there were some disagreements, like he would listen to you? But then he would do whatever you want it anyways, like he was more business oriented. You were more artistic?

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was that was wasn't on up from the ashes, though. You know that. I mean, we got along great. And we still do to this day. I mean, we're very good friends and everything. And I also do, I mean, I did a tour with them with the original members in Dawkins in 9097, when they had reunited and George Lynch had left in the middle of a tour. I think it was a dysfunctional tour. They call it the album was called dysfunctional, at least it right. And so so I went, I went to the States, because I was in Sweden at the time and, and went to the States and did a couple of weeks with them. And it was great. And they were actually wanted me to stay in the band, you know, but I had commitments to do another solo album. So So I did that. And, and later on a, I got I got a phone call from Don again for this. And which was in 2001, I believe. If I was interested to make an album with him, and that was that was, that was not not a good experience stuff, because then it was he was going to produce it himself. And it was just a mess, you know, and the songs were not there. You know, there were a lot of fillers and yeah, the mix was bad and yeah, that so that was but I did the tour after that stayed in the band for a year. But that was a pretty miserable tour after that and a lot of things have changed, you know, This is a big time. I mean, from from 89 until 2001. You know, a lot of years has gone by and you know, there were a lot of problems that was there. I shouldn't have done that album. And that was a big mistake.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, so then before before you rejoin Europe, you flirted with a little bit of possibly joining UFO, right, you were talking with them and sending demos that never happened because of the Europe thing, but you almost joined UFO.

John Norum:

Yeah. I was in contact with Phil Morgan. And Pete way. And I was sending, I was sending some demos. So as far as I think I spend like five or six song ideas over to Phil, he will start working on it and stuff and and I'm in right in the middle of that, that's when I got a phone call from Ian Helgeland the drummer in Europe to you know, if I were interested to come to this meeting. And so I, I said, Sure, you know, let's talk about enough for it, we're just gonna do that. We were just gonna do one, like a reunion tour. And that's it. But no, they were more willing to do another album, and they wanted to do a new album. And so really is so I had to say, I was talking to the UFOs management. And I call, I called them up and I said, you know, I've gotten this offer, or European wants to do a reunion thing. And I decided I wanted to do that, that I'm going to go go ahead and do that. And, and they said, like, when can you just do both? No. It's just too much, you know. And also, we also have to after, after the dock and experience we're actually we, you know, we only played like maybe one or two new songs from that long way home now, but the rest of the old stuff. And so, and they wanted me to basically just a copy George Lynch. And also, I was thinking, you know, the same thing is going to happen if I was going to join UFO. You know, I pretty much have to copy Lukashenka you know, I mean, you, you know, you have to stick to the melodies and all that stuff. So, so I was done. I was just done. Copying of other guitar players, you know, at the time.

Chuck Shute:

Do you think ever happened with those songs, though, that you kind of worked on with Phil?

John Norum:

No, no, they're never never I haven't done anything with it. We still around? They're still around somewhere on a cassette? Wow. I don't know. I do remember a couple of them. You know, they were very much in a UFO traditional UFO, like, you know, Heavy Petting lights out that type of style. You know, and, but yeah, you know, I'm just going in there and, and then coming from George Lynch, or the dark and saying, pretty much copy his soul like 90% of the time and, and then pretty much you kind of have to do the same thing. Because the solos are such a big part of the songs as you're gonna have to stick to certain things, you know, you can, of course, you can go out and do different things like in the rock bottom or something and do whatever, just like being in more does, and he does a great job, you know. But when the European came up, I just thought, well, you know, I get to play my own song. I get to play my own solos again. And so I decided to, to do that. And instead, which was the right decision, I think,

Chuck Shute:

yeah, absolutely. Then you guys made some new albums. And then I hear that you'll be working on a new album and 2023 is that right?

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah, we're going to start working and we're going to start plan is to start recording in May. So we are writing right now as we speak. Everyone is writing new songs. And we're looking forward to this tour now too, which is starting next week on the South America reviewing Argentina, Brazil, Chile. So yeah, and then also looking forward to do some, some solar solid dates as well, because I haven't played the songs for like 20 years. The last Giga remember I did as a soul or as was in 19. Oh actually will sin 1999 I think that's the one. That's the last one I can remember. That's the last one I can remember at least. Just because, because I see footage of it. So it's actually, you know, like, 2020. Lots more than 20 years. And you know, because now I've been in Europe. I've been to Europe now for 18 years, you know, since the reunion, so there hasn't haven't done any solo gigs. So, so looking forward to revisiting those old songs again, and also from from the new album, we played like five songs from the new album. And they, they sound great. So really great.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, the new album. I mean, I was looking at what's kind of blew me away was the the music videos. I mean, he looks like he had a pretty big budget for these music videos. Like they're pretty like the sailaway you got this Viking ship and I liked the beard, by the way. I think that's that's you with a beard right in the video.

John Norum:

Yeah, that's me. I should never shave this shouldn't it shouldn't have shaved, you should have kept the beard. I think it looks cool. In a long time. It took a long time to grow grow it. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I like to do different things. You know, I wouldn't stick to the Viking thing, you know, for every video and stuff like that, but but, uh, it's just kind of fit that phone, that is a huge that is a Viking wrist, you know, and I had this idea when they wouldn't, wouldn't it be kind of cool to, you know, be on a bike and ship and for the song, you know, I'm out there. And, and we were lucky that day, it was a big storm. Because it wouldn't, wouldn't have had the same effect if it would have been, you know, sunny day and, you know, a calm sea, you know, so that day it was raining, and it was just, you know, the boat was, you know, it was all over the place. So and so it came out great. I'm very happy with that video. But then, you know, for the next song, voices of silence next thing goes on video, you know, I like to change, you know, and do different things for different songs. And so I was always a huge fan of the David Bowie, you know, always keep changing all the time. And he doesn't do the same thing over and over again all the time. So, yeah, I like to mix the mix it up. Have fun with it.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, the album's are eclectic. I like it. It's got a good than the one by one. That's another you've made a video for that. It's like an acoustic kind of ballad. And that's really a cool song. Two very different than everything else on the record.

John Norum:

Yeah, yeah. That's a Yeah, that's a really good song. I guess that's the song that is closest to what, what Europe does, you know, I mean, you know, when it gets to the more more poppier, poppier side of things, you know, but you also have some Beatles influences in the area. So that's a good so I don't, I don't want everything to just be doom and gloom. I want to do sometimes it's okay to throw in a happy two once in a while.

Chuck Shute:

Yeah, no, it's all it's all great stuff. I look forward to hopefully I can catch it live. That'd be fun. Especially if you're opening for I'd like to be able to catch three to three bands at a time that the festival I love that idea. That's great, too. That's smart. Yeah, one of those. Yeah. Very, yeah.

John Norum:

Yeah. We'd love to do some festivals next year. Yeah, that will be a lot of fun. Yeah. And then do do an American tour. A US tour, which would be fantastic. Be a lot of fun.

Chuck Shute:

Very cool. Well, I know you gotta get going. I always in each episode, promoting a charity or a cause is there one that you've ever worked with? Or one that a cause that's near and dear to your heart that people can donate to after they buy your album of course.

John Norum:

Charity, well, the bat you have we do some charity work sometimes, you know, the different different things, you know, and you know, cancer research and all kinds of stuff, you know, and you know, I would like to help you know, the people that have the less fortunate, you know, the starving children in Africa and things like that. It's it's a thing that I think about a lot. So, so it's always a good thing to donate. Money to. Okay,

Chuck Shute:

great. I'll put some in the link. In the links along with your website and your UPS website. We'll look forward to new music from your about next year and shows with Europe and shows us solo shows as well. And people get the new album. It's out your solo ones out now gone to stay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks, John.

John Norum:

Yeah. Thank you, Chuck. I really appreciate it. It was it was a lot of fun talking to you, and I hope to see you, you know, sometime in the future near future where we can, you know, play some live shows.

Chuck Shute:

Absolutely. Love fun. Sounds good to me. All right. Thanks a lot, John. I'll see you later.

John Norum:

All right. Take care. All right, take care. Bye. Bye.

Chuck Shute:

Bye. My thanks again to John Noram. The new album is called gone to stay. It's out now. Check out his website and the Europe website for current tour dates. And the websites are in the show notes along with the charity and my website. If you want to check out other episodes, follow us on social media or whatever. 300 episodes. It's crazy to me. It's been a fun ride. And I really appreciate all your support, your listens, likes, shares, comments, subscribes, all that stuff kept me motivated to keep going and keep making more podcasts and I'll just keep going as long as we continue to grow. My thanks again to all of you have a great day and shoot for the moon.