Joel Hoekstra (Whitesnake, T.S.O., Iconic)

Joel Hoekstra is the guitar player for Whitesnake, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, Joel Hoekstra's 13 and most recently the group "Iconic" (with Michael Sweet of Stryper).  In Joel's second appearance on the show we discuss all his groups plus rock n roll fantasy camp, band lineup changes, gratitude, Chicago sports and more! 

00:00 - Intro
00:59 - Downloads & Streaming & Revenue 
03:21 - New Iconic Record & Band 
15:00 - Whitesnake Farewell Tour 
16:40 - David Coverdale Retirement Plans 
18:30 - Smaller Shows with Brandon Gibbs 
20:15 - Playing Arenas & Success Path 
23:15 - Productivity & Getting Better 
27:10 - Gratitude  and Appreciating Things 
28:32 - Silence Vs Listening to Music 
30:05 - Old Concerts 
32:10 - Older Singers & Lineup Changes 
36:32 - Bad Business 
38:25 - Rock & Roll Fantasy Camps 
41:21 - Alternative Rock 
44:50 - Chicago Sports 
51:50 - Salvation Army
52:30 - Outro 

Joel Hoekstra website:
http://www.joelhoekstra.com

Chuck Shute website:
http://chuckshute.com

Salvation Army website:
https://www.salvationarmyusa.org/usn/

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

Hey, welcome to the show. Stay right there because we got a great interview with guitarist Joel Hoekstra coming right up. But real quick if you can, make sure to subscribe to the show wherever you listen or watch, and if you're on YouTube, please give the video a thumbs up. And if you're on Spotify or other audio podcasts, please give the show a rating or review. It would help us out tremendously. We don't have any major corporations backing us up here. It's mostly just me. So Now back to today's guests. Guitarist Joel Hoekstra. This is his second time being on the show. So if you haven't listened to our first episode, make sure to check that out. And today we're going to talk about his new project iconic with Michael Sweet from striper. Plus we're gonna talk, Whitesnake, success sports and a lot more. So stick around it's hard to get people to listen to podcasts.

Joel Hoekstra: 1:03

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of nowadays too, right? It was like during COVID. Although all the people that were even, you know, like well known started their own right, because they're like, Oh, I got nothing else to do. Let me start a podcast. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 1:17

So then I'm going up against like the John Krasinski from the office. And like, you know, the these, like a list pretty easily go to start a podcast, like Conan O'Brien and stuff like, oh, great, that's fair. That's a fair playing field. So, but it must be the same. Right? I mean, it's so competitive, trying to get people to listen to music.

Joel Hoekstra: 1:37

Yeah, I mean, I guess so. It seems to, you know, be a little easier to get people to check out the videos these days, though, for whatever reason, I think people are more acclimated during COVID Certainly, you know, that last couple of years, where everybody was like, in front of their screens, it was easier to get people to press click on a video than it. Oh, videos like YouTube video, does that do better than like, the streaming the Spotify and things? I think I feel like the videos that came out over the last couple of years all seem to be at least on my end, I don't know. You know, they seem to get more views than stuff that was released, you know, five, six years ago or whatever. What's more lucrative for you? Or does that even matter? Like, do you get more income from the YouTube or the Spotify? Neither? Do there's not a magnifying glass powerful enough to calculate anything that would matter with any of that? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's that I mean, YouTube essentially, is a streaming service to just like Spotify or whatever. So people have usually in the public right now are kind of clued into the fact that Spotify hardly pays artists anything and so YouTube's in the same boat

Chuck Shute: 2:50

as Spotify for podcasters like we don't I don't get anything from the audio but I do get something now from YouTube once you hit 1000 subscribers you can get paid per down that's not a lot but it's something and so it's like a start at least

Joel Hoekstra: 3:03

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's yeah, it's just the amount that you get I think with from all these streaming services for you know, if people listen to your song on YouTube or something it's it's really really tiny.

Chuck Shute: 3:17

So it's better obviously it's better if you can sell a physical you have physical copies of the CD the the new iconic one

Joel Hoekstra: 3:24

I actually don't yet I hopefully the labels gonna send me some I forget what was in my deal.

Chuck Shute: 3:31

But they aren't gonna make it right. Oh, yeah, there's

Joel Hoekstra: 3:34

definitely physical product available. Yeah, they made

Chuck Shute: 3:38

a big one too. It seems like that's like

Joel Hoekstra: 3:40

they made they made vinyl so you can go to the frontier say that if you're but yeah, I actually do not in my own home yet have a physical like somebody somebody asked me for a copy of this the other day, I was like, I don't have one man. And I you know, what was even funnier? is I just strictly because now this isn't on anything with the label. I've just been so unorganized. I actually don't even have a proper digital copy of the mixes downloaded yet. I listened to them off a site for a while, or they had them that was like, you know, it was giving my thoughts on the mixes and all that stuff. But I forgot to click download and never downloaded. And so now that page is gone. And I was I went to go listen, the other night. I'm like, Oh, I can't listen to it. It's gone.

Chuck Shute: 4:29

Great. Yeah. So this comes out on June 17. Because I like to think I could listen, I didn't get an advanced copy. I've only heard the single nowhere to run, which is awesome. Single. It's a great riff.

Joel Hoekstra: 4:38

Oh, thanks, dude. Yeah, I'm in I'm at the point with you know, I'd wait. I think I gotta wait till the album's available to be able to hear it. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it came together. Obviously. It's something that frontiers got together. They wanted to have a group of classic rock musicians around Nathan James is you know, great young Singer kind of up and coming, you know, with his band and glorious and I think Michael Sweet and I came to came to mind as guitars because we talked forever about doing a project together Michael and I were like it's gonna happen this year and it just kind of like took a while. But anyway, they thought of us and so that was sort of the beginning of things right? There was Nathan, Michael and myself. And then they said, and we'll go find a drummer and a bass player and I kind of thought, Okay, well have fun with that, you know, the label and I just figured it'd be a couple people I didn't know. And then lo and behold, it was Tommy Aldridge, my bandmate from Whitesnake and and Marco Mendoza, who played in white saying in the past as well, so both of whom are friends of mine and, and they really like playing together Tommy and Marco have always enjoyed, you know, hanging out and playing together. So they work well as a rhythm section. So it's kinda kind of interesting because as much as this is like a new project or a new band, whatever we're going to call it, it kind of feels like you know, I had already worked with Nathan, like in TSO and CO writing with him. I'd co written with Michael, obviously been in a band now with Tommy for eight years. And Marco, I've known I've co written with Alessandro del Vecchio, the CO producers, it's like, I knew everybody involved, like we got together for the video photoshoot. And it wasn't like meeting anybody. It was kind of like hanging out with friends that I already knew.

Chuck Shute: 6:25

Okay, so then how did you write did you write together? Or did everyone kind of bring their own stuff? Or?

Joel Hoekstra: 6:31

Yeah, that was something like, out of the gate. I was like, well, let's try and, you know, let's try and get everyone involved. Like, so it's not just like, you know, one person saying, well, here's how the songs are gonna go. I was like, We it should be collaborative, we got a lot of cooks in the kitchen. So the way we ended up breaking it down was that I wrote the guitar riffs basically. But Michael wanted to do it with me the way he did it with George Lynch, where George would send them like riffs at a certain tempo that maybe he had in mind what section it would be, but it wasn't in song form yet. And then Michael, took my riffs and then put them in song form. And if they needed an extra riff here or there, it needed, like, you know, less of something there. He was basically, like, you know, putting putting it together in Pro Tools in song form my riffs and, and like I said, he did add some zone. And then from there that went on to Allesandro and Nathan and they wrote the lyrics and vocal melodies. So it was it was collaborative. In the end, I mean, everybody got it, like a hand in it. It was it's cool for me that at least, like my guitar riffs are on it. And you know, every every band or project has its own level of involvement that you can go with, you know, obviously my job, OSHA's 13 thing I'm like, you know, the, the dictator, man, you know, writing the lyrics and the vocal melodies, music and everything, and there's so obviously something like this, you've got to be willing to go like, Alright, let's try it and see how it comes out. You know, you got to be willing to give up the reins on on some of it. So I think it's cool. I got to do the guitar riffs and that way it still sounds like I have my personality in there and my influences in there. So there you go. That was like the longest answer ever. Sorry.

Chuck Shute: 8:25

I love it. It's great. Because I didn't realize frontier put this together. I thought it was like you guys. Hey, let's start. So frontier basically like constructed this band. That's interesting.

Joel Hoekstra: 8:35

Yeah, frontiers really? Yeah, I think I think the really the it started out almost as like an you know, the Hey, this is like a Nathan James project. Yeah. Okay, cool. Um, you know, like I said, Nathan had asked me to co write with him on a couple of the inglorious albums so I think like three or three co writes of mine have been on their albums and so you know, we always got along great I some TSO rehearsals for a couple of years when he was doing the West band and so, you know, the it sounded great. And Michael has been a longtime friend, I mean, you know, and really one of the hardest working nicest guys in the business. So that sounds like a lot of fun to me. And then suddenly it was like wow, this took like a weird turn when we got Tommy and Marco now it sounds very Whitesnake all of a sudden, you know, but, you know, I think there's some elements of that in there but I think in general, it's more of just like an 80s throwback, you know, it's an 80s throwback presented in 2022 style.

Chuck Shute: 9:37

Okay. Is that kind of what you is I mean, because you you're trying to stand out you try to stand out from other musical acts. Are you just trying to do that 80s throwback style and just do it really well?

Joel Hoekstra: 9:48

Um, well, I think yeah, I mean, my instructions as it were sounds sounds like very Yes, sir. You know, but like Michael and And Allesandro were they're the CO producers of the album, right? So they were looking to do something just like commercial melodic hard rock, at style. Cool, you know? So when it comes to me like you, when you're gonna sit down and write guitar riffs, it's like, well, that's, you know, it's kind of like what I've been doing anyway. So it shouldn't be too much of a stretch here.

Chuck Shute: 10:22

Do you do like that the most, though, or do you ever get bored and go, I just want to do like a jazz fusion or something totally crazy.

Joel Hoekstra: 10:29

I mean, I had my solo albums out years ago that were more along those lines. And yeah, you know, I had the VHF project in recent years that was more like psychedelic instrumental rock. And so I think as far as like, you know, what a lot of people do in our scene, I definitely have, you know, stretched the boundaries. I mean, if people would, like, the moon is falling from me, my one of my solo albums, they'd be like, Oh, really, this is like, the same dude. So you never know. I mean, someday I may get into more like more artistic stuff. But it makes a lot of sense right now to release a lot of the hard rock stuff. Well, that's the scene I'm in. Known for. That was the problem I had initially that was that the need for the Joel Hoekstra was 13 albums. Because, I mean, I had the solo albums out there were like instrumental jazz fusion, almost, you know, with undefined and the moon is falling, and I had an acoustic CD. And so people were getting to know me in these bands that I was in. Yeah. And then like, can they go get my solo albums? They'd be like, Okay, you got any rock solos? You know, right.

Chuck Shute: 11:40

That makes sense.

Joel Hoekstra: 11:42

Like, yeah, all right. I'll get cracking on that, because I did want to do that. I mean, the Joel Hoekstra is 13 stuff, that stuff that I always wanted to do. I was like, I definitely want to release some cool rock albums where I'm kind of the guy, you know, doing every writing everything and

Chuck Shute: 11:57

yeah, this song, though. I mean, like, as I've only heard one song of this project, but it's in that kind of vein of like you said, the 80s throwback, like, hard rock in but with a modern twist. I don't think it sounds. I mean, it sounds sonically especially really high tech.

Joel Hoekstra: 12:12

Yeah, that's the thing is you people say like, Oh, it sounds really 80s But then if you really a beat it against 80 stuff, you could easily tell the difference. You know, if you said which one of these albums was made in 22. And which one of those was made in 1986? Or whatever? And you could go go, I can totally tell this. Yeah. You know, it's, there's always going to be elements of like, the modern day in this stuff, but in general, I mean, if you're a fan of like the the 80s Hard Rock, the melodic hard rock, it's, that should definitely be a record that you're gonna like. I mean, there's a lot of talent on it. I think like Nathan's voice even is not like your stereotypical ad singer. I don't think he really sounds like an 80s hair band singer. I mean, he's got like, a warmer tone to his voice. You know, he's more r&b based to a degree, like, you know, he can do blues riffing with his voice, which a lot of those guys were not I was not in their wheelhouse, you know. So I think he's got his own thing going on. As far as like the sound of his voice and how he sings I think he's got, he's got his own style, which is cool. It's a good album, I think it's very consistent. Listen, like when I was listening through the mixes, it would get to every song I go, Oh, I like this one. And then I get to the next one. I like this one. But there was never a sunrise like I don't want to listen to so let me get past this one. The songs that are different and that stand out are the ones where Michael swaps off lead vocals with Nathan are there so there's a couple of those and not just singing the background vocals, but actually trading leads. And then we do that on lead guitar and a couple of songs to kind of Iron Maiden style or whatever, you know, nice, pass it back and forth. And then there's lots of harmony solos, which we kind of figured right out of the gate. I mean, Michaels known for that in striper. And the obviously in a couple of bands that had have had a lot of that stuff, you know, Whitesnake and was in Knight Ranger, so you know, I love all the armor I love all that stuff, man was like scorpions, Harmony leads and stuff.

Chuck Shute: 14:29

I love that stuff. Absolutely.

Joel Hoekstra: 14:32

So we did a lot of that on the album too.

Chuck Shute: 14:34

Now, will you be doing live shows or touring with this band at all?

Joel Hoekstra: 14:40

So my statement is, is that I'm always willing to do whatever it takes to to promote these you know, and get out there. So I definitely be willing to do live shows now. I must say that I have a year that's like complete insanity. I mean, we just wrapped up rehearsals here for Whitesnake. Going starting the farewell tour. We're doing, you know, Ireland and Scotland here coming up out of the gate and the UK and Europe. And there's a lot of dates that haven't been announced yet that are happening this year. And then I have TSO at the end of the year. So I'm pretty much looking at a really full year. And I think that this farewell tour will go into next year for us to be able to hit all the territories that David wants to hit.

Chuck Shute: 15:28

Yeah, I was gonna say because last time I had John, I was asking about the US tour and you're like, Well, you would assume that we'd hit the US but I'm looking at the website and there's still no us to date on that website.

Joel Hoekstra: 15:39

Well, I mean, good things come to those who wait.

Chuck Shute: 15:43

Okay, I've ever seen Whitesnake. So I'm like, I guess I got this has got to be it's now or never. Yeah,

Joel Hoekstra: 15:49

yeah. It's uh, you know, it's a really cool, great song lineup and rehearsals, everybody, you know, adding in dino on second keyboards because it's another really strong backing vocalist. And he's an awesome keyboard player too. And, and Tanya is a really great bass player, and she's got great pocket and great feel. So the band is sounding really good in rehearsals, and obviously Tommy Aldridge is always killing it back there and rev is ripping it up on the other side of the stage. So, you know, we got to got a great lineup and looking forward to getting out there and yeah, I think, you know, obviously, we're not going to do a farewell tour without doing us. Okay, okay. You can rest assured that they're coming. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 16:34

So why is why is it they retired? Why is Whitesnake retiring because everyone I've heard. I've never seen Whitesnake, but everyone tells me David Coverdale still got the chops, he could still sing and scream. So what's he going to do with retirement? Why is he? What's he gonna do with his life now?

Joel Hoekstra: 16:51

Oh, I don't know David will find a way to stay busy and productive. He always does. And I'm sure there will still be a lot of dealings business wise with Whitesnake, in terms of what he wants to do. I think he's just looking at like not wanting to go out and tour the world. I think he's getting to the age where he's, like, that's a bit much for him. And yeah, so

Chuck Shute: 17:13

what about a residency? A residency in Vegas or something like that? Anyone have to tour?

Joel Hoekstra: 17:18

Yeah, I don't know. You know, you'd have to ask David.

Chuck Shute: 17:25

Let's get him on the show.

Joel Hoekstra: 17:26

Well, I've done I've done him a share. And those are great. They're very easy. I mean, you do three Shows a week and no travel. It's amazing when you're a touring musician, and you go to do that. And you're like, Oh, you mean I could just hang out in this hotel room for the next month and like, go downstairs and play a show three times a week. It's it's a pretty easy gig, you know? Yeah, that's

Chuck Shute: 17:50

amazing. And so you can you there's more bang for your buck in Vegas. Well, it used to be cheap. I just was there this weekend. And it was similar. It was really expensive. But sometimes when you get better than like, cheaper than like LA and in New York, I would think.

Joel Hoekstra: 18:03

Yeah, definitely. I you know, I enjoy Vegas. I like it out there. So I'm not in a situation where I can necessarily move there but I like you know, it's cool. I like they it's easy access to that airport. You can fly direct to most places out there. No state income taxes. Right. That's

Chuck Shute: 18:23

a good one. Boys and girls. Yeah, so Whitesnake iconic. Joel hooks are 13 Tso. Are you still doing shows with Brandon Gibbs.

Joel Hoekstra: 18:32

Yeah, we went out and did a couple. Well, three shot three show run, maybe a month or two ago. And I think we've got another two, three show run coming up later this year on one of my breaks. And so yeah, I try and keep that going to Brandon's a great guy. And we have a lot of fun on those. And those are casual and give the fans an opportunity to say hey, usually kind of little, little bit of a smaller thing to come see us in a bar with 75 people as opposed to an arena or something with one of these other big acts or, you know, so yeah, they're fun. Brandon's a great dude.

Chuck Shute: 19:07

What do you like playing better than the smaller ones or the bigger ones? That's probably like a, you probably heard that question a million times. But yeah,

Joel Hoekstra: 19:13

I mean, realistically, probably the bigger ones because you get the opportunity to go do it. But it is cool to go back and play smaller shows and have the opportunity to you know, that's where your diehard fans turn up. Right? So when you go to when I go to play with Brandon and I go to play for 50 people somewhere that's the people that are there like my biggest fans. They're not the ones that are like, Alright, let's go see Trans Siberian Orchestra. Let's go see Whitesnake. They're kind of like hey, let's go see Joel he's going to be playing at this little bar right you know, so yeah, there's there's something cool about that. And so that gives you an opportunity to be able to say hey with everybody

Chuck Shute: 19:56

Yeah, cuz I guess as a spectator, someone the audience is So much cooler to be in the unless it's better to be in a small club unless you have like really good seats to the arena. Because when you're in the back of the arena, it's like, oh, man, this is tough. Like, I mean, you're watching the show on a jumbotron?

Joel Hoekstra: 20:13

Yeah, there's, you know, the big shows, though, it's like, yeah, gosh, it's hard to it's, you know, you have to recognize the fact that most people don't get the opportunity to ever play those shows. So there's something special about appreciating the moment of going like, wow, you know, he's played for 10,000 people or whatever, you know, in an arena. That's, you know, I really enjoy that. And that's amazing. No, that's super cool. It's an amazing thing to be able to do that in your life. And just to be lucky enough to get to do that, because there's so many people that dream about doing that someday. And so there's, I think that that's, you can't just like blow that off. No,

Chuck Shute: 20:53

no, absolutely. That's super cool. Like, do you think that there are people that resent you because of that, though, because of your success? Like because it took a long time to get to that level? Like you didn't start out playing arenas. It took years and years of hard work?

Joel Hoekstra: 21:07

You know, I think I don't I don't know that people necessarily. Well, I don't know, that might be strong wording. There's, there's always some people that are like that, but I like to think of myself as one of the guys that doesn't take it for granted. So I don't get much of the hate directed at me. Because a lot of people do, like, take it for granted if they get that too easily and early in life. But it took me forever. You know, it took me forever, like to be able to do all that stuff of like busting my ass and working super hard every day on guitar play. You know? I mean, I've been at this a long time, man. By the time things kind of worked out for me and I already had enough to I'm like the Twisted Sister thing, right? Do you ever see their documentary where it's like? No. Basically, the whole documentary leads up to them getting signed?

Chuck Shute: 21:55

Yeah. For like, 10 years or something, right? Yeah,

Joel Hoekstra: 21:59

I'm like that. I'm like that as a guitarist, right. It's like, I have to, like, you know, I have this whole story before people ever heard of me of like, just working nonstop to try and get to where I got and so

Chuck Shute: 22:11

but isn't that most successful people at I mean, not only in music, but really like, I feel like in a lot of areas in life, but especially, I mean, unless you're like, just the superstar singer, whatever, Robert Plant, I don't know how long Led Zeppelin took to break. But, I mean, a lot of them it does take a while to break into the business.

Joel Hoekstra: 22:31

Yeah, I think there's always more work that goes into it, then people see, you know, even those little, you know, teeny stars and whatever, you know, they've been working either parents usually are very like to, you know, stage parents and have them working on you know, entertaining and, and all that stuff when they're little kids. And so there's always work that goes into it. But that being said, everybody does have their own story, man, you know, it's like, there are definitely people that are like, Oh, no, I just ended up like, in this band and made like $10 million. And you know, I mean, it does that does happen easier for some than others for sure.

Chuck Shute: 23:10

How do you work through like when you because there's got to be times where I was talking to the, you know, Kiko Loureiro from Megadeth. Yeah, I do. It's awesome. Yeah, he's really cool. But I was talking to him about just working through the plateaus, because I remember when I like, long time ago, when I played guitar, I just got to a plateau. And I was like, Well, I can't get any better. And then I kind of just gave up and I because I realized like my guitar teacher, he was like, so frickin good. But he said that you just got to work through those. Like he even he would hit those plateaus where he just felt like, Okay, this is as good as it gets, and then he would just keep working. And then he would work through that. Do you feel like that's the same thing for you?

Joel Hoekstra: 23:45

Um, I mean, I break it down more to like, am I being productive every day. So that's kind of the way my mind works with it. So I do play like a boatload of guitar between whatever I need to work on musically, be it sessions, or teaching or running sets to get ready for gigs and work cutting albums. And so I just kind of, like keep doing that stuff. And then hope that like, hopefully, this is making me better. No, I mean, that's, that's all you can do. And I but I do think the more time you spend with things, just naturally, you get better at it, right? So I try to avoid that, like, Alright, I'm gonna make myself better and I'm gonna do that by you know, sitting with a metronome and practicing. I try to like have like real musical tasks, so I become a better musician to not just like a better practice or if that makes sense. Yeah. And trust me I'm not like you know, I don't feel like I've arrived at all I'd love to be much better at you know, so many areas of my playing, you know, I mean, that's just I think once you get to a certain point you realize like, you know, music because it's infinite as far as what you can get to and be able to play. So there's a ton I'd be able to like, like to do better. Sometimes I can get myself bummed out, you know, if I think about that too much. I think I do better with the mindset I was talking about where I'm just like, Alright, I have to do this today, I'm going to do this and do the best I can at it. And then that way, I can usually wrap my head around that without going you suck, man, you know? Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 25:31

Probably more important initially, like when you were learning guitar. And like, before you had gotten night Ranger and that kind of stuff to like, to keep going, right? There's probably times you're like, alright, this, maybe this is as good as it gets. I'm just playing in cover bands. And maybe that's, that's my, my, my peak. And then but you just you kept going, whereas a lot of people would just quit and get, you know, get a day job or something. And, you know, go back to school, or you just said, I'm gonna keep telling me. Yeah, there

Joel Hoekstra: 25:55

was lots of family reunions where I was the loser of the family. And really well, yeah, like I said, I mean, a long time for everything to kind of come around. So I think there was lots of family reunions. Like he had there's, there's the long hair dude who's like, you know, a guitar teacher at a store and like, you know, why didn't you could just go to college and get a degree and go, do you know, to get into business or whatever, you know, so? Yeah, I mean,

Chuck Shute: 26:23

like, it must feel gratifying to go, Hey, guys, I'm a night Ranger. Now you ever heard of them, like, had some hit songs, and we're playing big, you know, arenas and stuff. Like, that's pretty cool.

Joel Hoekstra: 26:34

Maybe initially, but like, it's not cool to go there in your mindset, you know, because then it's like, you know, it's it's unhealthy at the end. Right, right. Right. Yeah, you're doing

Chuck Shute: 26:46

it more for yourself anyways. Right? It was always like, you're just trying to get better and get to that next level. It's out for doing it for other people eating obviously, you didn't care what they thought when they thought you were a loser. So,

Joel Hoekstra: 26:56

right, exactly. Yeah. You just kind of keep doing it. And just like, Yeah, whatever, you know, so yeah, keep going. But it's definitely better to let go of all that stuff. And not like I had none. And I told you so kind of crap, you know,

Chuck Shute: 27:09

right now, but that's still I mean, and also, like you said, the gratitude, I think that's the biggest thing is just being grateful, and continuing to be grateful, not expecting it.

Joel Hoekstra: 27:18

I think that's, you know, the one thing that hopefully keeps most of the, you know, negativity away is that the, I mean, it took me so long of working hard that I, I tend to be one of the people that appreciates it the most that I get the chance to do all this. So, you know, I think that that it goes a long way. And then I mean, it's sort of like, you know, one of the basic, and I this is like my cheap ass attempted philosophy here, but it seems like a certainty that what you put out, you get back, right? So put, when you're in that position to feel grateful for that people tend to give me a lot of positivity back to you know, so, I mean, you know, I'm not saying I got 1000 I definitely don't, nobody does, you know, like, I mean, there's always times where you're like, I could have done better there. But, you know, it's all like I said, A for me, it's to keep myself somewhat sane, and this whole crazy process, you just kind of break it down to every day. Right? I'm gonna do this today. Do the best I can with it. And there you go. That's, that's awesome. repeat, rinse. Repeat.

Chuck Shute: 28:32

We're part of your routine. I heard you say that you don't really listen to music much anymore. Are you just listening to your own stuff to kind of like, you know, figure out how to do it better, but you're not listening to like other bands or like newer bands or

Joel Hoekstra: 28:44

not, not a lot now, I mean, I'm pretty terrible with that. I have a usually a pretty long list of things I need to get to, you know, I just did a session yesterday here and in LA, I'm teaching every night and that's in addition to rehearsals, you know, so rehearsal, Whitesnake do interviews for iconic to teach. So, you know, I get to the end of the day, it's like, alright, it's seven hours of rehearsals, three hours of lessons and talked about music. So let's watch a movie. You know, that's, that, to me that's more enjoyable than like, Hey, let me go listen to this new band and see what they're all about. I'm pretty much good. That's just the way like every day seems to be for me. Can I get

Chuck Shute: 29:27

there? Yeah, but there's got to be some time where like, if you're at the gym or something where you you, you can't you have to listen to music. You can't watch a movie maybe or like if you're driving or something.

Joel Hoekstra: 29:37

Don't listen to anything. I just have total silence. Yeah, if I'm in a car, I don't listen anything and if I'm I mean, unless they have it on I don't listen to anything.

Chuck Shute: 29:49

I always bring my headphones from like, or they usually play crappy music. So I want to listen to something good. That's interesting.

Joel Hoekstra: 29:55

I listen to the crappy music

Chuck Shute: 29:59

why? Wow, that's crazy. Well, I we've already covered most of your origin story in the last episode, but I did hear some things that I didn't know about you that were really like three concerts that you saw that I am so jealous of you saw Iron Maiden with quiet riot opening the scorpions with Bon Jovi opening and do with Twisted Sister opening. Yeah, those are three amazing those are like the three best concert you've ever been to.

Joel Hoekstra: 30:29

They might be the most magical because those are the first three I went to really was one of those were the first three concerts that I went to, and I was a kid right there sort of in order. So yeah, those probably held hold the most magic in my mind in terms of, you know how cool they were. And so yeah, I mean, that's a neat feeling nowadays to get to eventually know most of those people. You know, that's sort of the story of the last 15 years of my life basically is, you know, going through the process of getting to work with and know all the people that were my musical heroes growing up. But they were all very young too. So I don't want to make them all sound like they're a million years old. I mean, most of these people, it's like, you know, when I'm working with Michael Sweet, I talk to him like, Dude, I came to see you in striper. When I was like a freshman in high school, you know, like, I was, like, 14, or whatever. And, you know, it's but he was just a kid, you know, I mean, he was probably only 20 or 21 or something when he's playing that show. It's amazing. It was they were so young, those bands that were getting back then,

Chuck Shute: 31:42

like Skid Row, I think Sebastian Bach was like, 19 when they had their first home, they were just kids,

Joel Hoekstra: 31:46

you know, it's amazing. So but you know, really great for their age. It's amazing what you know, playing live alive will do when you're beyond people aren't gay kids don't have the opportunity to do that these days.

Chuck Shute: 32:00

No, I know. Well, it's hard for I would think it'd be the hardest for singers in these bands that like with Bon Jovi. Did you see the news? You must have seen the news story about that about, oh, Bon Jovi had a bad show, and he should retire and he should hang it up because he was his voice cracked a little bit, I think during one of the songs and like, what are your thoughts on that? Because it sounds like David Coverdale doesn't have a lot of that issue.

Joel Hoekstra: 32:25

I mean, I, you know, I didn't really check out I don't know the clip. I can't really comment on it. But, you know, I mean, people can expect older singers to sound like they're 20. I mean, that's just, that seems to be common sense right there. So I'm sure everybody's doing what they can to give the fans the very best possible show they can. And you know, there's, there's nobody that's up on stage going, like, well screw up, we don't care or whatever, you know, like the show, it's everybody's wanting to play the very best show they can. So I mean, if it's, I suppose if fans don't like the way a certain band sounds, they can always not go that sounds right. Sounds cold hearted, but I don't mean it to come off that way. But, you know, that's,

Chuck Shute: 33:13

I mean, that's what Eddie trunk was talking about that too. Like, with Kiss, he'd say, like, I don't think they should be touring with unless it's the original members. But he's like, but fans vote for it with their wallets. Like so people are going it's making money, why wouldn't they do it?

Joel Hoekstra: 33:26

Yeah, I don't know. I can't, you know, these bands are around for have they been around for a very, very long time. Like, when when, when people start commenting on the fact that a band has had lots of lineup changes, and you go, that band has been around for 50 years. It's like, you know, crazy, I think you should probably should expect some lineup changes over the course of that time. You know? So people don't always think that through and I think in, you know, they just picture it being the people forever that they saw on an on an album cover or whatever, and they want it to be that forever. And the reality is, you know, those, those people themselves probably wish they were that age and looked like that and felt like that, and it probably stayed like that forever. But that's just not the reality. Right? I mean, right. So,

Chuck Shute: 34:19

and sometimes it's better when they do have some lineup changes, you know, they can get a younger guy that can play better. I don't know.

Joel Hoekstra: 34:28

Yeah, I mean, I think that's up to each individual listener and fan to figure out if they like or don't like, and

Chuck Shute: 34:36

there's certain obviously there's certain musicians that are like part of the sound where you're like, Okay, that's not it's not going to sound like the band if if it's not the original singer or original guitar player. Sometimes even the bass player drummer can be a huge I can't imagine like Red Hot Chili Peppers without flee. That would be weird. Without

Joel Hoekstra: 34:54

Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I totally get it, man. I mean, I'm a fan too. of bands when I was younger and, you know, like, a great example would be Queens Reich where I grew up really loving all of those guys. And they're like, what a band, you know, everybody's got their style and they fit so well together and great writing and great albums. And but you know, Todd LaTorre is a friend of mine and he crushes the shit out of it, man when he sings live in my herd. Well, I mean it Oh, am I supposed to not enjoy this show right now? Because this sounds pretty awesome.

Chuck Shute: 35:32

Sound like Jeff Tate, or is it sound different though?

Joel Hoekstra: 35:36

Oh, I'd say like, a hybrid, you know, like, covers take great, but I think he's got his own thing, too. So, yeah, I mean, that's just an example of like, okay, you know, obviously, I was a huge Jeff Tate fan growing up. So there's always that part of me, you know, but at the same time, like Todd's Awesome, man, he knows like, well, what am I supposed to do? I don't

Chuck Shute: 36:01

know. Yeah. Well, a friend of yours that have you ever met Jeff.

Joel Hoekstra: 36:05

Yeah, have and we talked on the phone couple times. texted and he's great. I mean, Jeff's a super nice guy to man, you know, at least in my experience. So you know, when things go wrong with these bands, it's like I you know, I'm not going to be the one to like, pick sides and two sides and all this stuff and be like, you know, I like to give everybody the benefit of the doubt in this business until they've necessarily directly done be wrong or anything, and very few people have. I mean, I just don't feel like, you know, in general, those are just band dynamics of people being together for like, years and years and years, I think. Right?

Chuck Shute: 36:43

So wait, who did who did you wrong? Or you don't?

Joel Hoekstra: 36:46

Come on? You're gonna go there. You're gonna they're gonna give you that little bit.

Chuck Shute: 36:51

Give me the name. But can you give me a story? Like what happened?

Joel Hoekstra: 36:54

No, no, man. I'm not gonna know. I've

Chuck Shute: 36:57

heard so many stories like promoters. A lot of times will like, they don't pay the band. That's crazy. To me. I don't know how that's even legal.

Joel Hoekstra: 37:05

Yeah, I've been I've been a part of having done that. But usually, I'm not like the direct business. I don't know what I'm looking for. I'm not the manager or agent or whatever. But I've definitely that happened a couple times over my time and night Ranger. I know, are they it's a couple promoters, flaked and et cetera, et cetera. So

Chuck Shute: 37:30

it seems like it may be more smaller bands, like in clubs and bars, and the bar just says like, Oh, we're not paying you or whatever, for whatever reason. And it's like, then what do you do? Like, it's just crazy, I guess you call the cops or something. It's a strange. I mean, it's gonna be a weird limbo.

Joel Hoekstra: 37:45

Yeah, thankfully, luckily, one of the things about being able to do what I do, just being a part of a band is not have to deal with that stuff. Someone else dealing with our parts, and everybody that's handling the business end of things can figure that out. That's awesome. But I try not to sweat too much about you know, like, one little tiny sum of money here or there. You know, it's like you got you always got to see the bigger picture. And, you know, not get too wrapped up in that, huh?

Chuck Shute: 38:19

Yeah, no, that's, that's a good outtake or Outlook to have for sure. When you did the, are you still doing the rock'n'roll fantasy camps.

Joel Hoekstra: 38:29

So I did a couple of those earlier this year. Oh, in past years, so I don't think that it lines up the rest of the year just because I'm on tour. But it's something I enjoy being a part of. It's a you just kind of help what they assign you. When you're a counselor, they assign you a band and your job is to kind of get them ready to play and depending on their need, if they need a guitar player, you play with them or you don't play with them, kind of thing. And but your job is to kind of get them ready to be able to perform with the headliners that come in, or even one of the performances is usually on their own. So if you don't mind teaching, which I don't I do it anyway. Then it's a good gig because I hang with the other counselors for a week or for four days and hang with the headliners each for like a day or two. And, you know, it's a great opportunity to just kind of stay out there a bit and play music without it being like I'm off on tour with this band, etc. So, yeah, it's cool. I have a good time with those.

Chuck Shute: 39:33

Yeah, that was cool. Like I saw like you were hanging out with a Soundgarden guy Kim. And Shane's Jerry Cantrell, and Steven Perkins from Jane's Addiction. I was like, damn, this looks like a fun rock and roll fantasy camp. Like, I want to go see the concert.

Joel Hoekstra: 39:47

Yeah, I said, I mean, you know, you by the end of the week, you're like, Okay, so you know, Kim and I had never met and that but they asked me to moderate like the q&a and actually kind of interview him at the beginning. And so it was kind of neat, you know? By the end of that, I felt like why I feel like I know him. And he came later in the night he came up to me and complimented, he said, Man, you asked the best questions. And you know, you've had the best commentary all day and was just very complimentary and nice. And somebody I never even met. And I thought, wow, that was that's cool. You know, that that came about and getting to see Jerry Cantrell. I only met Jerry one time very briefly. So getting to meet him again, as always nice and, you know, be seen and remind people, you're out there and alive. And and then Stephen, you know, we had been at some mutual events, but I was always kind of like, alright, I don't know, um, I don't want to go, you know, be like, you know, Guy and Jane's Addiction go up and like, Hey, man, get in his face. So great to me. Yeah. And so you know, so this was really the first time where we kind of got to know each other a bit at that one. And Mike Kroeger from Nickelback was at that same one. And I knew everybody in Nickelback except Mike we'd never met. And I've been friends with their drummer Daniel for a long time. And so I'd never met Mike, but man, what a nice guy. He's the nicest guy in the world. I had so much fun with him hanging out at that camp, too. So everyone seems to be like that, where you get out of there? And you're like, Well, I mean, you know, I feel like I got to know a lot of people really well during the course of the week. So

Chuck Shute: 41:23

do you like like that? See, like with a Jane's Addiction and Allison chains and Soundgarden and Nickelback to a degree too, it's like a different sound than the more of the ad stuff that you're known for. But are you a fan of those other styles of music?

Joel Hoekstra: 41:37

Yeah, I mean, I said, Jane's at the I think it was the first Lollapalooza you know when Wow, yeah, when when that started up, and they weren't great. And they were a great band and as far as like the others Nickelback blew me away. Why not? When I went to go see him live I, I had met Daniel back when he was in three doors down their drummer, and he liked my instrumental albums we talked about earlier, my fusion cool. The drummer is kind of like a real kind of virtuoso guy and they're Virgil Donati. And so anyway, Daniel, and I've kept in touch, even through him leaving three doors down and joining Nickelback and all this stuff. And so when I've heard them live, I thought they put on a great show. You can really see Chad Kroger's very influenced by James Hetfield. I wish I had never put two and two together with that, you know, with the Explorer and the black T shirt and the, you know, just his. He's very, he's very Hetfield. And

Chuck Shute: 42:39

I didn't realize that either. All too often look for that next time. Interesting. Once

Joel Hoekstra: 42:42

you make that correlation, you know what? That connection is like, Oh, I

Chuck Shute: 42:46

get it. Yeah. I'm never a huge Nickelback fan, but I'm not like one of those people that like, hates them, either. I'm like, they got some good tunes. And yeah,

Joel Hoekstra: 42:54

I honestly I don't know, because I listened is so little that it's more or less. Like, I go to see the show. And I just evaluate the show and go like, do they sound good? And I thought they sounded really great and thought they put on a great show. And what other bands were we talking about in there like Soundgarden

Chuck Shute: 43:10

on chains. Yeah, I'm from Seattle. So I grew up in the Seattle in the 90s. And I loved like the hair metal, but I liked the grunge stuff, too. I just it's I never understood like why you people had to choose. I felt like can't I like also all sorts of other kinds of music?

Joel Hoekstra: 43:24

Yeah, me too. I mean, my favorites from that area from that era are the ones we're talking about. Like, definitely like Allison chains. Soundgarden and Stone Temple Pilots, I would say standouts from that era for me more than say, like Pearl Jam or nirvana. I was more into those three. They're bringing more from metal and like into the grunge thing, and a little more progressive maybe I love that all the Soundgarden all the open tunings and stuff. I thought that was totally cool. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 43:55

Some of the poppier stuff to a collective soul and gin. I just thought we just saw Gin Blossoms in Vegas, and they sounded great. And yeah, they had some really good songs too, like, a little more poppy, less, less heavy, but

Joel Hoekstra: 44:05

I liked that band, too. They had some really great hooky kind of jangle pop. Yeah, yeah. Very catchy stuff. So yeah, I mean, in general, I'm, you know, I'm pretty open minded with all this stuff. And I'm like, You were I'm like, yeah, why? Well, why am I supposed to like just one thing? So right

Chuck Shute: 44:23

now I get it though, too. It's like, where you don't listen to music because you're like, Okay, I've been doing music all day. I just don't want to hear silence. It's kind of interesting, but I totally understand it because it's like with podcasts. I do so much research on the the guests that I'm interviewing, listen, all these interviews that they do, and then people like, Hey, you want to listen to my podcast? I'm like, that's the last thing I want to do. At the end of the day is listen to another pod. Like I'll just listen to music or a movie or sports.

Joel Hoekstra: 44:47

Yeah, yeah,

Chuck Shute: 44:49

you're a Bulls fan. Right? I am. Yeah. So I was gonna because last time I think we were we were scheduled. I was like, I was gonna ask you because they were playing and there was a lot and that was the end they lost their playoff game, but

Joel Hoekstra: 45:00

and it didn't go well. No, but now

Chuck Shute: 45:02

you still got the what's the other team? You're a fan of the Cubs? That's the plan.

Joel Hoekstra: 45:07

Yeah, they're looking like, you know, looking okay, they started off with a little bit of chemistry and then it all kind of, you know, I just think they don't necessarily have enough talent on the team to really do it this year, but it's okay. There's some players that I'm enjoying watching it develop and stuff like that. And it's alright, you know, the bowls. I kind of thought when they got that lineup. I mean, they did miss having Lonzo ball in the playoffs. He's like, their big problem is just defense. They only really have one guy who's like a defense first guy being Alex Caruso. And so I think you know, you got Levine and DeRozan those guys are definitely offense first Fuji which is offense for see kind of need some of these guys that think about like, I'm gonna play D and pass and Lonzo ball fits in really well with that. So I think that they'll play better having him back next year. I don't know that it's a championship team, though. Still, they're gonna they're gonna have to figure out what the heck to do. Yeah, something's gotta give there. I don't think it's really a championship team. Know, where you got to revamp?

Chuck Shute: 46:16

Were you? Were you a fan of the bowls? And like the those the 90s and stuff those teams like, that would have been amazing to watch all those games.

Joel Hoekstra: 46:24

Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah, that stuff was really fun. I mean, that was Michael Jordan coming in as just their new draft pick, you know, it was drafted this guy, Michael Jordan, he wasn't Michael Jordan yet. He wasn't, you know, he was he there was there was a little bit of hype about him. Everybody knew he was gonna be good. But they're like, Oh, it's a good draft pick or whatever. But there wasn't like it is nowadays where people come in, and they're, you know, King James icecool or whatever, right? I mean, it's a different, it's a different level of hype, you know. So it was fun to watch Michael Jordan kind of come in footage from just being like a draft pick to watch that whole thing happen. And I think

Chuck Shute: 47:06

he wasn't, wasn't he not the first draft pick? Like somebody there was at least one team that passed on him and said, We're gonna take this other guy. We don't think Michael Jordan's the best person. Which is yeah, he

Joel Hoekstra: 47:15

think about you as the third pick. Yeah, third, okay.

Chuck Shute: 47:19

Well, so two teams passed, a team was

Joel Hoekstra: 47:21

first, which he was considered to be the top draft pick and then the second pick was Portland and they they had Clyde Drexler so they were like you know, Michael Jordan plays the same position we get a guy we really liked there doesn't make sense to draft him. So they drafted Sam buoy and he ended up having a career that was riddled with injury and really did nothing as a pro so that was, you know, forever tortured Portland fans that they made that pic instead of, you know, but I mean, nobody's got a crystal ball, man, you know,

Chuck Shute: 47:55

but it's, yeah, it just goes back to that like work ethic thing because I think Jordan just he just kept working out and getting better like I you know, he was originally cut off his high school team, which is weird to think about, but he just like was like, he went home and cried then he's like, Alright, now I'm gonna start practicing and just keep getting better and better and better and Damn, what a career.

Joel Hoekstra: 48:14

Yeah. Oh, yeah. The he was trying out for varsity, I think as a sophomore and varsity team, so it's a little bit of an illusion, that story, you know. And then he played on the varsity junior and senior year but but yeah, he Michael improved, I would say steadily throughout even when his athleticism was going down. He was getting smarter and live figuring out how to how to still be a good player. So yeah, it was really I mean, it was fun to watch and it was fun to watch Scottie Pippen get better. And you know, Horace Grant, and there was a lot of very talented players that were a part of those teams that is, yeah, it's great. I mean, they won six titles man, you know, getting to celebrate championships when you're following a team is awesome. You know, if the Cubs went and won six World Series now I don't know what I do. I'd be like, well,

Chuck Shute: 49:10

it's amazing. The they they weren't was it like five years ago or something they want? It was crazy.

Joel Hoekstra: 49:17

Oh my god. I mean, I waited for that. And like, you know, they broke my heart my whole life and it was

Chuck Shute: 49:23

like 100 years they had gone or something crazy like that right?

Joel Hoekstra: 49:25

over 100 108 years. Yeah. So when they finally want it was like, Oh my gosh, man was crazy.

Chuck Shute: 49:34

Yeah, the curse is over there called the curse was it the curse of the way was that the one was The Curse of the Bambino because they had traded Babe Ruth or something. Well, that

Joel Hoekstra: 49:42

was the Red Sox. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Babe Ruth to the Yankees. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 49:47

was the Cubs the one where it was like a goat walked on the field or something? That's

Joel Hoekstra: 49:51

yeah, shows you how old the curse was? What the hell you're talking about a goat for Yeah, me kicked out. I forget the exact story, but they had kicked out a guy who worked for them. Or he ran the billy goat tavern, I think and he had the goat in there and they kicked him because of it. And he said, There will never you know, I forget what the exact text was that he threw out it but he laid down some statement, there will never be a World Series game played in this park. Ever again, or whatever, because I think they kicked him out of the World Series, I want to say Damn, so it just kind of lasted and lasted and lasted and they would you know, there was a couple of years that they they were one game away, and then they'd lose three in a row and not go to the World Series that happened in 84 and 2003. Whereas like, you know, 84 they were up to games to none there was only one round to playoffs back then does the five and they won the first two is like they're going to the World Series man. lost three in a row. And 2003 They were up three games to one. It was like they're going to the World Series this year. It's gonna happen last three in a row. Didn't go and that was the year the BART man thing that Steve Bartman if you remember that moment, oh, a fan reached over and interfered with a saltwater wad. And then once that wasn't caught, like it really wasn't his fault. It was actually the bigger problem was that the shortstop made a really crucial error after that moment and but the floodgates like completely open for the Marlins, and they scored like a million runs in the game. So

Chuck Shute: 51:33

crazy. You know your sports. That's pretty cool.

Joel Hoekstra: 51:36

Yeah, maybe that's my getaway.

Chuck Shute: 51:39

That's your Yeah, you got to have like something else? Because like, yeah, you go crazy if you're just only doing music. So

Joel Hoekstra: 51:46

yeah, that's my getaway, for sure.

Chuck Shute: 51:48

Very cool. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I think last time you were on, we promoted the Salvation Army at the end. Just if people have a few extra bucks after they buy all your music, of course, they could throw it to the Salvation Army.

Joel Hoekstra: 52:00

Cool. Yeah. That's great. Thank you. Okay, cool. And I'll put

Chuck Shute: 52:03

all the website and everything in the show notes. And then I'll tag you on all the social media if you want to share it or anything like that.

Joel Hoekstra: 52:10

I will. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. Bye about the other day. Oh, no problem. Yeah. Oh, sorry about that, dude. So worked out. All right. To the best of us, I guess, man. Yeah. All

Chuck Shute: 52:20

right. Well, definitely. Hopefully, you'll do a show in Phoenix or somewhere nearby where I can drive to and see Whitesnake. I've never seen him. So that'd be amazing. All right, cool. All right. All right, dude. See you later.

Joel Hoekstra: 52:31

Thank you so much. But

Chuck Shute: 52:32

thanks so much to Joel make sure to check out iconic and all his other work. Follow him on social media for updates. And while you're on there, please give me a follow up or the show. I will post short preview clips of the show on Instagram and Tiktok Tiktok. So check those out. And check out some of my other interviews. I've had lots of other great musicians including other guitar players like Steve Stevens, Paul Gilbert Andy Timmons, bumblefoot Kiko Loureiro from Megadeth, and tons more and once again, I will remind you to subscribe to the show. And either like or comment on the video if you're watching on YouTube, and give us a rating or review if you're watching or listening on Spotify or Apple podcasts that helps us out a lot. Thank you so much for taking the time to make it all the way through. Have a great rest of your day and remember to shoot for the moon.