Sean Dowdell (Grey Daze)

Sean Dowdell is a musician, author and businessman. He is the drummer for Grey Daze, which features the late Chester Bennington on vocals. There is a new album out on July 1st called “The Phoenix”, which also features Dave Navarro and Filter’s Richard Patrick.  We discuss the new music plus mental health, business, politics, the entitlement culture and so much more! Fascinating conversation with Sean!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:53 - New Grey Daze Album 
0:02:55 - Evolution of the Music 
0:06:35 - Chester Bennington & Emotion
0:07:37 - How to Listen & TV/Movie Placement 
0:11:40 - Streaming & Listens 
0:14:30 - Lyrics & Pearl Jam Influence 
0:17:40 - STP Album with Chester 
0:18:36 - KISS, Guns n Roses & Band Dynamics 
0:23:55 - Pearl Jame, Prince, RHCP & Soundgarden 
0:28:05 - Motley Crue & Soundtrack to Your Life 
0:29:44 - Chester Bennington & Something Not Right 
0:35:25 - Stigma of Mental Health & Society Downward Spiral 
0:38:40 - Opportunity in America & Entitlement Culture 
0:41:55 - Transgender Athletes & Helping People 
0:44:30 - Innovation, Competition, & College 
0:49:30 - Politicians & Loyalty to Political Party 
0:53:10 - Club Tattoo, Waterface & Continuing Music 
0:57:20 - Touring with Grey Daze,  Hologram & Guests
0:59:45 - Pete Loran from Trixter 
1:02:05 - Antidepressants 
1:06:20 - New Leaf Foundation 
1:07:32 - Outro 

Grey Daze website:
https://www.greydazemusic.com

New Leaf Foundation website:
https://www.turnanewleaf.org

Chuck Shute website:
http://chuckshute.com

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

Hey guys stick around we have a really fascinating an in depth conversation with Sean Odell. Now this is Sean second time on the podcast. He's once again promoting music with his band gray days that features Chester Bennington from Lincoln Park, with vocals that he recorded before he passed away. And the new music is amazing. And the discussion goes very deeply talking about the new music, Chester band relationships, business and politics and a lot more. So. Warning, we will discuss suicide and mental health in this episode. If you or someone you know is suffering, please reach out for help. I've put a mental health resource in the show notes. Now here's the interview with Sean O'Dell. All right, Shawn, how's it going, man? Long time no talk.

Sean Dowdell: 0:56

Don't really well. Thanks for having me on, man. Yeah, so

Chuck Shute: 0:58

new album. The Phoenix comes out June 17. So we got two more weeks.

Sean Dowdell: 1:04

I think it's been postponed to July 1, because there's some manufacturing issues the labels having with the physical copies.

Chuck Shute: 1:12

Oh, okay. Well, there's a couple songs I think that are on Spotify now. Right?

Sean Dowdell: 1:16

Yeah. Our first two singles we have saturation, Strangelove and starting to fly that are out right now.

Chuck Shute: 1:22

Which are the first two songs when they get the album which I think are like there. Those are two of the best songs on the album.

Sean Dowdell: 1:28

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 1:31

I mean, because the first one it just, they both just kind of kick off like it's just like you hear his screaming Chester screaming. I mean, that's like, it's so iconic. I mean, it's it's really cool that we're still being able to hear new stuff from him.

Sean Dowdell: 1:43

Thanks. Yeah, it was an honor to work on the project. And we're all very excited. Of course we'd love the music. So listening to Chester's always fun.

Chuck Shute: 1:52

Yeah. And then the one song holding us got Dave Navarro from Jane's Addiction doing an awesome guitar soul. And then there's also I think, Patrick, or sorry, Richard Patrick from filter doing a song too.

Sean Dowdell: 2:05

Yeah, he sings on a song called believe me.

Chuck Shute: 2:07

Yeah. Oh, those the only two guests.

Sean Dowdell: 2:11

His Chester's daughters Lily and Lila both sing on a song called Whole. All right, yeah. And that rap that wraps up all the guests, just just the three songs that we had guests on.

Chuck Shute: 2:23

Okay, so I'm gonna I'm curious like, because you guys were You were pretty big back in the day gray days in Phoenix. So is there people that you know, were like old fans from the 90s now are enjoying this music and going, Oh, this is so great to hear all this stuff again?

Sean Dowdell: 2:38

Oh, yeah, it's really cool. We get a lot of fans that'll send us photos of them and those shows back in the day. And, you know, to people that have always still loved the music. And you know, the demos have kind of been leaked out a little bit. They were taken off the market back in the early 2000s by Warner Brothers. But, you know, true fans have gone out and sought those things out and found them and, and they love the new or at least the majority of that people love the new renditions of the songs, the rewritings of everything.

Chuck Shute: 3:07

Yeah, how much? What is what has really changed though? I mean, besides obviously, you have a couple guests and stuff, and you've maybe remixed it

Sean Dowdell: 3:13

or No, no, it's honestly, that's changed 100% We took away all the old music and and threw it away and just kept Chester's vocal tracks, and then worked on rearranging some of the vocal tracks writing new parts with some of the guests, and then wrote the song musically around Chester's voice from scratch. Literally, there's nothing the same at all from the original demos, except for Chester's vocal parts.

Chuck Shute: 3:42

Okay, I didn't know it was that much different. I thought you kept some of the

Sean Dowdell: 3:46

now so back on the first album amends. Yeah, there's a couple songs sometimes what's in the eye. That stayed pretty close to the original, but everything else was dramatically changed. And this album, we didn't keep anything. We literally started from scratch and just work around Tess's vocals and and even his vocals we use different parts from different songs. We rearranged some of the stuff wrote new choruses and there's a lot of it does not sound anything like the originals.

Chuck Shute: 4:13

Okay, so you redid all your drum parts.

Sean Dowdell: 4:16

Everything we guitar has bass ruined, not not only drum parts, but rewrote drums completely started from a complete neutral position and and reimagined everything and, and try to write a song in a more modern context that would make sense and be more relevant in today's music world.

Chuck Shute: 4:37

Yeah, no, it definitely sounds totally irrelevant and a new in the production is stellar. I mean, it doesn't sound like a demo at all which which is amazing that his vocals could because you I mean, those are the one thing that's original It doesn't sound like a demo of a vocal. It sounds like he's given us all like it's fully production brand new.

Sean Dowdell: 4:56

That's how good he was. A lot of people don't realize that that he really He was hitting on all cylinders back when we were doing this. And, you know, we recorded three full records together, we had a couple of record deals. It's not like, we were just in a garage, you know, demoing stuff, we actually went to real studios and did real recordings. We didn't have the production value back in the 90s. And I think that's why we decided to rewrite the music side of it. But his vocal performances were so good that we're like, we can absolutely work with this. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 5:28

I didn't know and then there is a cover on the right anything anything. That's the drama drama song, I love that song.

Sean Dowdell: 5:35

It's a great song. And it was one of our our repertoire standards for many years. And that was a favorite of Chester's. It's, it's very difficult to do a cover song justice. And I think his vocal performance is just awesome on that track. So

Chuck Shute: 5:51

yeah, it's definitely like a different spin on it. Because I feel like the original obviously, it's more poppy and stuff. And he kind of took it like a little darker.

Sean Dowdell: 5:59

Yeah, it's it's a, it's a desperate song when he sings it.

Chuck Shute: 6:06

Yeah, you can.

Sean Dowdell: 6:07

That's the emotional context I put it in is when you hear him, you know, talking about he's trying to make his girlfriend how even those these aren't his lyrics. That's about Chester, one of the talents he had was, he could take someone else's lyrics and still believe it. As he was singing it. You know what I mean? He wasn't just trying to replicate what somebody else was doing. He made it his own. And that's why that song a specialist, because he really did we made that song our own.

Chuck Shute: 6:35

Yeah, no, definitely, the whole album is just filled with emotion. I mean, you can you can feel it when he, when he screams, it's not like he's, you know, just just playing, like using his voice as an instrument. It's like, he's, like belting out these emotions. It's like, and you can like, you're like feeling like, wow, this is feeling your pain, buddy. Like, it must have been cathartic for him to sing.

Sean Dowdell: 6:55

I think it was certainly an outlet for him to get his emotional. Goo out, you know what I mean, he had a lot of stuff going on internally. And I think, you know, for many years, that was, that was the one thing that he could do to exercise those demons and get that pain out of his system. And you're right is just add an ability to make you as the listener understand exactly what emotion he was going through, not just talking about, but what he was going through, as that stuff was coming out of it. And that's a very rare gift. Very, very few singers are able to do that.

Chuck Shute: 7:36

How do you suggest people listen to this album? Like, do you think it's something that because I feel like you could listen to it right? You could listen to it while you're driving you can listen to it's definitely good workout music because it's gonna push you or you could just, I was like, listen to in the shower, just like you almost want to like focus on the music and just sit and listen to it.

Sean Dowdell: 7:54

Thanks. So first, I would say Turn it up loud. Yes, very powerful, loud album. So that would be my first suggestion. However, that means if that means you're if you're listening on on headphones while you're running or working out, but I think you're right. I mean, this album is a little different than a man's man's was a bit of a emotional roller coaster a lot of sadness. Melancholy reflectiveness this album sounds like you want to raise your fist and scream along with Chester. And I think that's the differentiation between the two. For me, I'm a car listener or I'm a runner listener. So I'll put on my ears and run and blast it or I'll blast in my car on my drive. That's how I like to listen to music.

Chuck Shute: 8:34

Yeah, no, that's all you know, I also I noticed too, is that some of these songs like like a, like drag that's got a really dark, like spooky vibe in the opening? Could some of these songs be put in place in music? And or I'm sorry, movies and TV and things like commercials, things like that? Because I feel like they would have they're definitely going to bring a mood to things.

Sean Dowdell: 8:53

I would hope so. I think there's some great songs that definitely lend themselves to that, you know, the eye starting to fly or when we're all rocking, how high would you go? I mean, that to me sounds like an extreme sports or NBA theme or something like that. Or drag is very dark. I could see that in some kind of a Michael Bay movie or something. But you never know. I mean, that's that's all that's us as dreamers, which, you know, we all are dreamers, we like to like to think of the music living outside of just the album itself. And when you can land syncs, and movies or commercials or Netflix. The music gets to have a life elsewhere other than just radio and Spotify and iTunes, you know, and that to me if we could if we could learn some of that stuff would be great.

Chuck Shute: 9:41

Yeah, cuz I think sometimes that makes the song like there's so many songs that I think of that are attached to movies and TV or commercials or whatever, that it's hard to think of those things without the without that in it.

Sean Dowdell: 9:53

The one that comes to mind right off the bat is every time I hear a couple of Creedence Clearwater Revival songs, I think of Forrest Gump, no matter Yeah, what I'm doing here John Fogarty. Yeah. Last out, you know, oh yeah, no money like Forrest Gump. I can't get away from that

Chuck Shute: 10:10

those songs are in so many things. I had the drummer of credence on here. And he was saying, because there was a little bit of an argument between John Fogarty and the drummer because the drummer is like, Yeah, put the songs everywhere because you know, he wants to check and then John Fogarty was more like picky about stuff. But yeah, those songs are in a lot of things. But definitely, Forrest Gump is a big one.

Sean Dowdell: 10:28

I think people missed the point. It's not about trying to cash a check because your output my song in a movie for free, because, like I just said, I'm not out buying Creedence Clearwater Revival albums. But I do watch Forrest Gump. And now I know that song and I'm just using this example. You have you have a lot of young people today that musics not everywhere like it used to be, you have to go and find it. And if you don't know what you're looking for, you're missing out on some great stuff. So therefore, if you can find another avenue to get your music introduced to people through a different medium, that's the important part. Maybe in John's case, he is a little bit more protected, because it was about the check or whatever for the drum. I'm not sure what context they're bringing that up to me. You're giving potential listeners a different medium and access to your music that they normally wouldn't find you in, you know,

Chuck Shute: 11:22

right now. Definitely. That's

Sean Dowdell: 11:23

the important part.

Chuck Shute: 11:24

It's definitely a different game now. Like it's, it's hard to sell records. I know, like gray days has millions of streams, but even that's not I'm sure that's not bringing in a lot of money and whatnot. And I mean, I guess some exposure, but

Sean Dowdell: 11:38

yeah, so you know, I've we've had a couple people that are like, Oh, you're just trying to get rich off this. And that always hurts hurts our feelings. Even though even though I've learned to brush that stuff off. And just the you know, you guys are idiots, because you do the math, you do 100 million streams. 100 million streams? Sounds like a lot, right? Yeah, you're talking about $330,000, something in that in that vein. And then your label takes half of that. So you're left with what 150 $165,000, something like that. And then you take the$165,000 and you get taxed on that. So you chop that in half, okay, roughly left with, let's say $90,000, then you get to divide that by five or six people, and then your producer to lead you left with nothing. You're talking about 20 $30,000 per 100 million streams per person. And is it a waste of time financially?

Chuck Shute: 12:35

No. Yeah, you got the tattoo stuff. Obviously, that's that's your moneymaker. But this is more just to get the songs out

Sean Dowdell: 12:44

is a passion project. For us. It's very important. This is a very dear friend of mine, this our band was a friendship between guys that really loved hanging out together and, and had a great time in every aspect of life, not just musically. So this was a, this was something that I have spent more money on than made and I'm fine with that. By the way, I don't care. I'm not chasing this for money, I'm actually chasing this because I want it to be good. I want it to be great. I want people to understand what it is. And I want them to see Chester in a light that maybe they haven't seen him before and appreciate him differently. That's why we're doing this. And anybody that can do math can simply go through what I just said and and come to the same conclusion. We're telling the truth, that that's what it is. And even if let's Let's even say we did a billion streams, so we just add a zero to the end of that. So now instead of 30,000, we have 300,000. You know, 300,000 would might change a lot of people's lives. But it's not going to change mine at all on that I'm not meaning that to sound arrogant. I'm just trying to put it in context for everybody. And that and we're at 1/10 of that. So it's just it's an irrelevant conversation for me when people try to say that and so we just tried to focus on the positive side of stuff, we worked our asses off to make this music Great. SJ, the producer did a great job. I think, musically, this is a very strong record. And I think there's some great singles on here. But I think as a record, you're gonna listen to the whole thing and it's an entirety and hopefully be floored by it.

Chuck Shute: 14:20

Now Yeah, I mean, like I said, the emotion you feel it's that's why I feel like people need to at least the first time they listen, maybe just sit down and really listen to it. I kind of want to read the lyrics too because that's one thing I didn't do is look at all the lyrics because I'm sure the lyrics are very dark and heavy to

Sean Dowdell: 14:36

me can't be this album axis of the last album was very dark and very sad. And this album has a little bit more hope and positivity to it. You know, we're talking about starting to fly you're talking about a young person who's coming into their own and and starting to really understand that the world is their oyster and that they can go and do and accomplish anything they want. Like how high can we Where can we get to so that's a great message drag is another one is dark and moody is drag is the overall underlying message of that song is Life is too short to be a drag. Figure it out get away from those demons Life's too short to be intoxicated, get away from that stuff and figure out what makes you happy and chase that and that is what I think embodies the entire record is that message you know?

Chuck Shute: 15:26

Hmm know for sure. The last song to is really interesting. Wake me. It's kind of a slow down, but it's the vocals for me on that one. It's like very distinct. I don't know how to describe it, like almost kind of spread out. It reminded me of like Pearl Jam. Is that is that you're hitting that to like Eddie Vetter? Kind of

Sean Dowdell: 15:42

sure. For sure. Yeah, and that was another one on the record. So I'll address this one real quick. So when we wrote wake me that would have been a very probably heavily influenced by Pearl Jam. But there's another track that I think you can absolutely hear it on even more. It's called Be Your Man. It's the third track on the record. And to me, you know, we were really hoping we could get Eddie to actually sing on one of those songs but it just didn't just didn't happen. I couldn't couldn't get in touch with them. And I think that it's it's you could really hear the Pearl Jam influence off the 10 record. In that song. I think it's a great song.

Chuck Shute: 16:17

Is that one going to be a future single?

Sean Dowdell: 16:20

No drag is going to be the next single Okay, and then I think we're going to release holding you are believe me after that?

Chuck Shute: 16:26

Yeah, are these songs you don't even see the last album was it were they on the radio? I mean, not that does anyone know if that means anything but because they're getting millions of streams so it doesn't really matter if they're

Sean Dowdell: 16:36

so the last record I believe we had four singles that reached Billboard Top 25 We had one that went all the way to number two. Wow, I believe sometimes what's in the I be 12 all ranked near the 20 mark on Billboard and then sickness went to number two on billboards. So yeah, we had a lot of radio play.

Chuck Shute: 16:54

Nice. That does help I mean, I feel like the playlists are like more important but I guess some of the bands tell me you need both like to get exposure you need to well and also the movie TV you need all three it seems like we're all three can definitely help

Sean Dowdell: 17:07

Well, you know that's the labels job that's there's nothing we can do about that right? So you know if the if we're getting radio play then a label deserves credit for not then they didn't they deserve the blame. It's one of those things the band did the job on producing and getting the music to the finish line and the rest is up to the label and if they if they do their job then well we should see the music everywhere and if they don't, then we won't Yeah, but for us the most important thing was getting the music done. Yeah, for sure.

Chuck Shute: 17:34

So what about you mentioned that he did a Chester did an album with STP that's that's Is that ever gonna see the light of day?

Sean Dowdell: 17:41

I mean one comment in an interview and it seems to be every every interview I do since then gets brought up I don't know I'm you know Dean and and Robert are really nice, guys. But I'm not super close friends with those guys. So I don't know if they're, I don't I don't know if it's ever going to see the light of day because they had the new singer Jeff and it would kind of be weird for them to put out a record with Chester. Why they had Jeff. I don't know. You'd have to ask those guys, but I've heard it. I was around while he was doing it. And it's really good.

Chuck Shute: 18:18

Yeah, I can imagine that's what I'd want to hear that like, Yeah, I wonder if they would just put it out there kind of I mean, I've seen bands do that before like, Neverland kiss when they when they got the they got Peter and Ace back in the band in the 90s. And they had already done an album with the other guys. I think they just put that other album out and didn't really promote it or anything but just put it out so people could could check it out.

Sean Dowdell: 18:39

Yeah. And it was called Psycho Circus if I'm not. I could be incorrect. I was a big, big kiss fan.

Chuck Shute: 18:46

I think I think that's the one with Peter and Ace. But there was another one. Before that with Bruce and the other drummer. I forget. Eric Singer Eric Singer. Yeah, I think that they they had already done that. And then they got back with this big reunion. They put out Psycho Circus and then yeah, then they I think they put that other album out with Bruce and Eric where they just kind of like, released it but didn't promote it or anything. And so but it was really good too. There was like one single off it that I really liked it.

Sean Dowdell: 19:13

Yeah, you know, that's unfortunate a kiss is a kiss is a very weird dynamic because, you know, you had Peter nice that when the band for was six or seven years. It wasn't wasn't as long, maybe seven, seven years, something like that. And then you had they had this extended career basically from what like 1979 to 1999 Well, you know, so almost 20 years without those guys. And then the fans keep wanting them back to their for nostalgia sake, but I think some of their best work was done after those guys left the band and it sounds like those guys were so hard to deal with for for Jean and Paul and I've listened to both their Jean Paul's books and follow the band for many, many years. So it's an interesting dynamic, because they've got all this pressure from the fan base that wants that original lineup, yet they've gone on to be very successful without those guys. And then when they get them back in the band, it seems like those guys are always causing issues and problems and pitching about money. And you know, meanwhile, they're broke. But the jean and Paul are paying them lots of money. I don't know them personally. You know, of course, I'm speculating and only hearing what we know, right away. But it's very interesting dynamic to me, like, you know, those guys, when they were brought back, they should, they should have been doing everything they could to try to keep to keep it together. And it just

Chuck Shute: 20:34

yeah, like they should be kissing their ass for letting them back in the band. Like, hey, I'll do whatever you want. I'll take less money. Oh, like, just to be a part of that would be huge, I would think. Yeah. And I don't think

Sean Dowdell: 20:44

Jean and Paul wanted him to kiss their ass, but I think they wanted him to be appreciative of the situation or circumstance themselves. And instead, they were spiteful and pissed off that they weren't getting as much as like, you guys, these guys have done on for almost 20 years without you and done quite well. And there and that opening, you know, maybe there's some animosity and stuff like that we're not understanding but at the same time, you know, those guys, at the end of the day, let you know, let the guys those longtime warriors that had been with a go in order to put these two original pieces back in the band. And I think that gets lost in translation with with with Peter and Ace where they just kind of complained. And you know, the stuff that I've read and seen, just to see him seems very unappreciative and short sighted on those guys parts and some fortunate.

Chuck Shute: 21:34

Yeah, that's yeah, it's because it's interesting. Yeah, they did. They kicked them out. And they brought him back. And then it was like, it didn't last very long the second time. So whatever the problems were, didn't seem to be solved. And maybe it's just personality conflicts, I don't know. But I mean, even like reading your book, you can tell that there's a lot of issues when you have a band trying to get four people or five, or whatever it is, personalities to all work together. I mean, that's, that's a tough thing.

Sean Dowdell: 22:00

Yeah, and then you start to add, so it's, a lot of people don't realize to most of musicians, when they're, they're young and starting out there. They're not as experienced, they're not as educated. They're not as emotionally in touch by the musicians and creatives in the first place. And then you introduce money, and then you everything that makes your band successful in the beginning usually gets taken away. After you hit the success mark all the time you spent together as a band, creating the, you know, your first big record, you know, guys have guns and roses, the first big record they did, those guys spent years together in a rehearsal studio and writing and every single day, they were punching the world in the gut together doing it as a team, all of a sudden, you sell 20 million records, or whatever it is. And this is no dig on this guy. I love guns and roses. But I mean, I'm just talking about the dynamics that shift when you go from being hungry and starving musicians to when you become very successful, all of a sudden, everybody wants their own space, and nobody wants to rehearse, we're gonna go in and write it out. And then a couple of months, like, well, you guys took eight years to write the first record, you're going to try to come out with your second record, and you know, write it in two or three months. That's a difficult ask for anybody. And I think the general public doesn't understand that. Why does that Why are most people's second records not as good as the first there's a few exceptions, but most of the time, it's because not nearly enough time went into writing that second record, you've got pressure from the label, yeah, budgets and all these things are worked into the thought process of creating that second record, and the first record took years, you know, and you pull from everything great that you had, that you've done over eight or nine or 10 years to put into that one first record. Then you knock it out of the park and then late, you know, six months after you you're off tour the labels like okay, do it again. Fuck how do I how do I do this? You know? Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 23:52

no, that's a really good point. I always feel like a lot of the band's first albums are the best like you talking about guns and roses, Pearl Jam. I mean, I as they've made so much music and a lot of it's good, and there's a lot of good songs that I like, but I don't think anything can can capture that first out the energy of the first album.

Sean Dowdell: 24:09

Yeah, I would agree that that 10 So 10 is on my top 10 favorite albums of all time. So his appetite for destruction. There's a few bands and their first records hit that for me, you know? But then you've got you've got other bands like I don't know like Prince where to me, you know, Purple Rain is a masterpiece right? On his first record, but he just got Yeah, he was really high. But but but he was in his own studio writing for a year before he put out anything. That's the difference to me is how much time you know, there's the 10,000 hour theory like if you put 10,000 hours into anything, you can become a master at it. And that includes music. You know, I'm not talking about just playing drums for 10,000 hours. Okay, I play drums for 10,000 hours. I'm really good at playing drums Great. Now writing songs. Since I put 10,000 hours into writing songs, now I'm a good songwriter. On the next record, if I don't put in that same amount of time, it's going to come up short. And it's in a lot of people, as you know, labels don't realize how hard it is, for the most part to write great material takes time. It's not just let's put you in a great studio with a great producer. Sometimes that works. But, you know, another great band that they'll talk about, you know, that that became better over time, instead of first record was Red Hot Chili Peppers. That, to me is a great example of a band that was able to write extensively outside of their touring cycle, and came in on that blood sugar sex Magik album is one of my all time favorites. Those guys are huge influences. Do I think mother's milk is a good album? Yeah, but I don't think it touches some of the later stuff because they've just developed and matured as writers in a way that most musicians don't. You know, because they still hang out together. They go in and write together. They're constantly writing, you know? Yeah, and

Chuck Shute: 26:06

they write because they actually matured, because I don't think people know like, if you listen to their early stuff, I mean, they were like a punk band. They were not the stuff that you hear on Adult Contemporary right now. They were not writing that stuff, but it works like I think, I think it's, I mean, for me, I kind of liked that other the more the blood sugar sex Magik album, like you said, I think that's brilliant.

Sean Dowdell: 26:25

Yeah, California Keishon I mean, everything from blood sugar sex. Magik on. I'm a fan of one hot minute. I really like California.

Chuck Shute: 26:35

Is that the one with Dave Navarro? Yeah, I like that album too. It's kind of underrated.

Sean Dowdell: 26:40

Yeah, you know, I think there was a, I don't know, I've never asked Dave this question. i There must have been a weird dynamic in the band. Maybe they just didn't get along. I don't know. But I thought he actually wrote some cool stuff on that record. And I think he's, uh, I think the public sees Dave as a guitar God, but I don't think they understand how good of a songwriter he is. He's really good writer and I Jane's Addiction stuff that I think the stuff he did with those guys is great. And I love what he did on our track holding you. He doesn't just play the guitar solo. He actually plays guitar over the whole thing with Kristen. He's good man. He's underrated. You know, um, another band that I think got better over time because the way they wrote was Soundgarden was another one that that you know, those first few albums were okay. They were you know, you can see talent there, but I thought Soundgarden got a lot better over time. You know, once you hit Badmotorfinger,

Chuck Shute: 27:38

I love that record. I didn't like the super unknown, though as much I know that it was a little poppier, but I liked the more heavier grip of Badmotorfinger

Sean Dowdell: 27:48

Yeah, Jesus Christ pose as a drummer is one of those songs that I always love to move out to and throw down with but you know, everyone's got their own preference, but I think as writers they became a lot stronger and a lot better over time. You know, even look at some of the metal bands or pop glam bands like Motley Crue, I think Motley Crue hit their hit their stride on girls, girls, girls, you know, theater pain was cool, you know? I mean, it was like, wow, this is really different, right? But I thought, well, you know, once they came to girls, girls, girls, then, to me, that's that. But I guess the other thing about music that doesn't get talked about as a music really is the soundtrack to your life. So you can listen to an album that like Pearl Jam, 10. I know right? Where I was what time period I was in what I was doing with my life, because it's a timestamp on my life. It's literally the soundtrack to my life. Oh, that's right, in 1992 1991 when I was in college, and I was just getting into the grind scene, and by the way, 9092 93, whatever it wasn't, and you just go into that place in your head. And I think that's also the emotional context that you find yourself in is really the importance you're also going to find with which with what record in their repertoire you resonate with?

Chuck Shute: 29:02

No, absolutely. That's that's so Right. Like, it's like we were talking earlier with like certain songs. If they're in a movie, it's like, that's what, there's always going to be some memory. Usually when a song comes on, first time you heard it, like, like when you heard it, or if it's in a movie or wherever. And that'll just always stick to it for sure.

Sean Dowdell: 29:18

Yeah, yeah, I you know, listen to Daft Punk, and I hear that I hear some of the Daft Punk stuff and I instantly think of Tron, you know, like I said, the Creed and stuff we talked about. I'm trying to think of another song that that pops out into a movie. It's more than just a song. You hear what I've done from Linkin Park. You think of the Transformers maybe? So?

Chuck Shute: 29:41

Yeah. Well, you mentioned Soundgarden, Chris Cornell and Chester they had a friendship, right? Wasn't he like, Chester's godparent or something like that?

Sean Dowdell: 29:51

Yeah, they were they were friends. I believe Chester was Chris's child. God God parent. I thought they I think it's the other way around.

Chuck Shute: 30:01

I had it backwards. Okay.

Sean Dowdell: 30:02

I think I think honestly, don't quote me on that, because I could be wrong. Yeah, they were, they were friends. And they didn't hang out all the time or anything like that, but they really enjoyed each other's company and, and lived in the same similar similar areas.

Chuck Shute: 30:17

So sad, like they both just took these dark paths, you'd think that they would have been able to talk about those feelings that they were having with each other, because they would both had the same kind of feeling sort of,

Sean Dowdell: 30:29

you know, I don't know, Chris. I've only I've only met as his wife to two or three times. She seems very nice. I don't know Chris. So I don't know the demons he was dealing with. Knowing Chester as much as I do, I can tell you that these are not stuff they like to talk about. There's a certain amount of shame that comes along with those feelings. And it's not usually a comfortable place for them to go. So Chester became very good at it. He became a master at hiding those feelings to the public. You always saw him with a smile. He was one of the most joking human beings. I knew. And I spoke to him two days before he passed, and he was on top of the world. I mean, there were things that we were just laughing and we could not wait. We were supposed to have dinner that Saturday night together and start rehearsing for our show our reunion show that was coming up. So I would think he'd be able to talk to me, I was one of his best friends in the world. And he didn't tell me that that was the feelings he was having. So I think depression is a weird thing, man, you know? Yeah, it, it makes you call

Chuck Shute: 31:34

them out. Didn't your wife like kind of pick up on something like she was like, You need to talk to him. And you tried and then he denied it? Yeah. So

Sean Dowdell: 31:42

when they did the one more light album, he started wearing this hat. It was a very specific hat. He started wearing a lot of their photoshoots and press and my wife, Doris, she's like, something's not right with him. And I go, Well, what do you mean, she was? I don't know. There's just something and as I something's not right, and I'm like, no, he's just trying to try to change his look up a little bit. That's what he's doing. You know, I'm, I'm the Forever optimist, right? And she goes, No, you say something to him. Something's not right. So when we talked on the phone, I'm like you Okay? And then he opened up a little bit. He told me that, you know, some of the negativity surrounding the album was really hurting his feelings. He's like, I've never been attacked like this, you know, from our fans. He's like, it's very hurtful. It sucks. And we try to do something different. We tried to do something cool. And it was very hurtful and you look at the Comedy you go back into their YouTube stuff because after he passed I went down the rabbit hole to find out what I was missing here and and you see some bad comments as always a keyboard warriors that that talk shit online. And you know, they're supposedly his fans, but yet they're, they're running their mouth about how much this sucks or whatever. But it's really interesting, because you've got 10,000 awesome comments 10,000 that are, I love this, I love the sound, my blah, blah, blah, you guys are so great. And then you'll have 100 Assholes telling you how much it sucks. And his mind would focus in on the assholes, the less the one or 2% of people that didn't like what he was doing that felt tough behind the keyboard. And he couldn't get out of that. Like, that's where his mind took him. And he just felt like a failure because of that, because the people talking shit, rather than the 10,000 people that are telling them how great it is and how much it impacted their life and, and what their music means to them. And I think that's something that his mindset did to him a lot was he made him? First of all, I think he came from a place where he didn't feel good enough about himself, you know, he cared so much about everybody else. And he loved everybody and was truly compassionate and had the biggest heart and he wanted, you know, he would talk to complete strangers for two hours at a time and everybody loved him. You asked a room full of people that like music, you say, And who here knows Chester Bennington, Who here loves Chester, and everyone raises their hands. And the only person that doesn't think that is himself. And that is the heartbreaking part of the tragedy is that Chester didn't feel that way about himself. He didn't feel good enough about himself. And that's the hard pill to swallow for me is knowing that he felt that way and there was nothing I could do to help him there's nothing any of his friends could do to help him because he just didn't it wasn't that transparent when he was here you know looking back it's easy to say well I saw this or I saw that and I try not to Monday morning quarterback on on his life all i All I do is try to reflect on the good times I had with him and and initially when he passed was what did I miss? What you know, how could I have helped prevent this and I think you have to come to the conclusion the honest conclusion is probably nothing because he never would have opened up enough for you to see it in a way that would have been an actionable situation. You know what I mean? He will tell you it's okay. He'll tell you he's doing all right. And then he'll change the subject, he'll deflect. And that and that's how depression works. It's not so open for a lot of people. And I would only have to assume it was very similar for Chris.

Chuck Shute: 35:23

Do you think that we can change as a society though with kind of like the stigma of mental health? Like, it's, it's not, you know, because, like you said, the shame, I feel like that some of that comes from society, you know, like, Oh, you're gonna see a psychiatrist or a counselor? Oh, you're crazy. You must be crazy. You know, there's all that stigma that goes with it. So that's why they don't seek out help what I feel like some of that is changing to.

Sean Dowdell: 35:47

Man, I'm going to tell you an answer that you're probably not gonna like, No, I don't think it's going to change. I think society is getting worse. I think canceled culture is a huge contributor to this type of shit. I think that the internet with Instagram and Facebook puts portrays people, it portrays the the potential lie of what someone is rather than what people really are. This people, I am living my best life. Meanwhile, they're fucking living out of their car. They're, they're flexing and somebody else's in front of somebody else's Lamborghini. I think the world is full of shit right now, especially in America. And I think that's heavily contributing to this mental abuse and those waving the flags. In many instances, they're, they're just, they're waving flags of attention about themselves. And some of them truly do want to change the system and change their beliefs and change change people's lives. But I think a lot of it has to be done through actionable items, rather than just posting on the internet. I think the internet is a very dark and evil place sometimes. And it's really teaching young people the wrong value system. You have people that are 100%. Okay with walking into stores and stealing shit and filming it while it's happening. That's not how I grew up.

Chuck Shute: 37:04

You know, I see you go actually in California, I think.

Sean Dowdell: 37:06

Yeah, I mean, and then you have the politicians that are making it worse. So I honestly, I believe the world is in a very dark place right now. And I don't I don't see it getting better. We can talk about depression all we want. And it may be noble on some in some regards. But I I do not think it's going to change, I think it's going to get worse. And I think people are going to feel worse and worse about themselves. With the internet and social media doing the things that they're doing perpetuating these lies about who people are supposed to be and what the realistic expectations of the world are.

Chuck Shute: 37:37

Now, that's very well said I and I think you kind of covered that in your book to where you talk about, I think you and I have the same philosophy where you feel like you know, we live in America, there's so much opportunity or everybody has the potential to be successful at something. But we don't really encourage that we encourage like you said, like, I think the Kardashians was an example of us, like, hey, look, you can be famous and make money for doing nothing. Whereas like, we really need to foster more of a culture of, hey, like you want to accomplish, you want to start a band, you want to start a podcast, a business or whatever. Like, here's the steps to do it. And then just keep working towards that and see it and like, I'm sure you know, like, that's one of the most exciting things for me growing this podcast, I was just looking at our first interview from a year ago. And my production has gotten so much better. I apologize for I'm like, looking at my camera that's like, one half megapixel or something. It's looks like shit. And it's like just cool to see. You'll saw it you saw it with club tattoo. I'm sure you saw it with great A's. Like you see this thing that you're building grow. It's the most it's a great feeling. I wish more people could feel that.

Sean Dowdell: 38:38

I agree with you on a percent. And I think I was using the the Kardashians in a context of like, look, I don't know the Kardashians and I'll try not to judge anybody on that. They do what they do. And clearly they have they have a following and they've made money doing it and more power to you know, they're not living off other people and living off other people's work. They're actually creating something content that people find valuable and and more power to it. But what I'm not into is this entitled, entitlement of entitlement culture, where people think they're owed something. It's not the fact that you were born in America, you have these opportunities. Granted, not everybody has the same opportunities, but even the even the person in the absolute worst situation in America is still 10 times better off than almost everybody in every other country. It's just the truth. It's uncomfortable. It's an uncomfortable truth, but it's the truth and it doesn't make me racist or misogynist or, or a bigot or anything else because I treat everybody the same and I will pull everybody up that ladder. I don't care if you're gay, if you're straight, you're black raised, I don't give a shit. None of that stuff matters what type of character you have and what type of person you are, what type of good you want to do in the world matters to me So that's how I put value in humans. I don't, I'm not hiring somebody, because the black, I'm not hiring somebody because they're white, I don't care what color you are, I want to hire you, if you're the good person, if you're the right person for the job, you know what I mean? And things are going to be merit based in my world, because that's that's reality is the government gets to do things based on walls, you should hire this person because they're a girl or because they're this or because of that. And I understand that people want a fair playing field. But the best way to fair is to make a starting point, or the opportunity. The same for everybody, when you try to make the result the same for everybody. It's a race to the bottom in the standards wall. And you'll find that a lot of people who have a massive aptitude or ability to do certain things, will school opt out, will say, I'm not going to compete for the bottom, I want to be the best. That's what I think.

Chuck Shute: 41:03

Well, yeah. And I think, you know, just goes back to your original statement, how you feel like everyone has the opportunity to be made, everyone has their own challenges, but I feel like it's kind of like degrading, when they say like, oh, you know, like, women can't do this, or, you know, men can't do this. And so we need to, like, you know, even the playing field, I'm like, I disagree. I think people can do it, like, you think that they can't, because of this or too old or whatever, or different gender whatever. Like, I think people can do whatever they put their mind to, if they I mean, within reason, obviously, I'm not gonna be able to play for the suns or anything, but

Sean Dowdell: 41:35

you have to have realistic expectations of what your capabilities really are. I also don't I'm, I am a big supporter of human rights, but gay rights as well. When I say gay rights, I think of human rights, not gay rights, because everybody is human. Everyone deserves the same rights. It's not specific. So I'm a big proponent of this, but I do not believe in this whole transgender athlete thing where you have men who become women that are competing in women athlete, arenas, I don't think that that's fair. I don't think that you're talking. I think you're trying to talk the same language through an illusion, and it's just not the same. And you get caught up in the semantics of it. And it's not I have no judgment on the man who became a woman, I don't, I don't care about that and more power to the woman if you want to be called a woman, great. You're a woman now that's fine. No, I mean, I don't have any empowerment over those people. I wish them the best. I want them to succeed and everything. However, it's kinda like me showing up to a karate tournament. And we're all white belts, and I'm competing against five year olds and just throwing them across. It's not, you can say that, Oh, well, you know, I want I want to karate tournament as a white belt. But the reality is, you're getting caught up in the semantics. And it's a bit of an illusion. And I don't think that that's fair. And that's just the way I think about it. And it's not a I don't hate anybody, I don't, I don't dislike transgender or anything like that. I just think that there's we're getting caught up in all this political correctness stuff. And I think it's, I think it's detrimental to a lot of arenas, especially how much we've tried to empower women and made sure that women do have a level playing field, I think it's absolutely destroying and dismantling that, to be quite honest.

Chuck Shute: 43:25

Now, it's a hot topic, for sure. There's a it's an interesting debate. And I it's confusing to me. Yeah.

Sean Dowdell: 43:33

You don't want to set you don't want to, you know, I don't want to be accused of being misogynistic or anti gay, or anti transgender, or any of these other terms that are coming up. And I, I put my money where my mouth is I support my community. And I am active in the minority community here. And in helping people who need help from those people who are successful in the community. I actually am out there doing things, not talking about things. And I see some of the disadvantages that a lot of people have. And I want to try to help them get to a point where they have those equal opportunities, but equal results is a different conversation.

Chuck Shute: 44:17

Don't you think to that? You know, we talk so much about college and college scholarships, everyone should go to college, and we'll give you money for college. Don't you think we should put some of that money into starting businesses? Because I feel like that's we're lacking innovation. People complain about the billionaires like Bezos and gates. And it's like, well, yeah, they're kicking ass because nobody's competing with them. Like, they run the market because there's who's their competition who's Amazon's competition? I guess, Walmart but like, you know, like, in an ideal world, I think we have more competition and more innovators.

Sean Dowdell: 44:49

So oh, man, you're gonna give me going out

Chuck Shute: 44:55

is a great conversation.

Sean Dowdell: 44:56

How about big Bezos Elon Musk fan? And and, yeah, I love the fact that they're creating jobs and creating businesses and innovators. But I'll say this, I do think there's an unlevel playing field in some arenas when somebody like Jeff Bezos gets a major tax break to open up a Amazon factory in whatever town, and it's on the basis that he's going to create jobs. We know I create jobs, too. I have 100 plus people that work for me, I don't get those same tax breaks. So why would he get those tax breaks? Oh, because he's creating jobs. And that's good for the economy, timeout. If that's the argument, then none of us should be paying these taxes, because we all create jobs that we can all pump money through, and do it a different way. But you guys are choosing winners and choosing losers. And it's it's really hard for a mom and pop small business to compete on a global or even national or regional level with some of these big players. Because the deck is stacked against you from the moment you are going in. If I have to pay for the specific permits and specific taxes in front load my insurance policies and front load in some cities, I have to front load tax base, because they're afraid I'm not going to pay my taxes. And meanwhile, I'm front loading a tax base, and Bezos is getting a tax free incentive to open. So it's a negative 40%. When I started my company, that's an impossible winning position, or impossible position to win. And so I while I applaud those guys, and I'm super stoked for what they're doing and what they're creating. I think there's absolutely an unlevel playing field for a lot of other entrepreneurs. Now, more to your point, do I think that we should be investing in small businesses? Yes, small businesses should be easier to get micro loans and smaller loans without having to sell your children into slavery, if you default on the loan of some of these small business names are very scary. And they I've had to sign my house on several of the early loans. And that's scary, you got a business, you're going to take your house away. I mean, that's scary, man. You know, and then further down the rabbit hole with your with your question is, I think a lot of people shouldn't be going to college that have gone to college. First of all, I think some of these degrees are absolutely insane, that they have no practical world application once these people graduate. And yet, they're taking on 780 1000 100,000 Plus in debt to get these irrelevant and unusable degrees. So that's first. Secondly, I think the push to go to college, you know, comes from that, you know, mid 1950s and 60s, parent mentality when that seemed to be the only way you could get a level up a leg up in the corporate world, well, the world's changed and you don't need a college degree to do a lot of things in this world anymore. I don't have a college degree, I went to college for five years. And it was I think, six credits or eight credits away from getting my BA in philosophy and in business marketing. So I went to school to learn, I learned a lot. And then I went on to become an entrepreneur and develop that aspect of my life. But I think a lot of people go to college because that's the pressure a the parents put on them and be what society expects of them, their peers. And I understand it from a young point of view, you don't want to feel like a loser if you're not doing what the other people are doing around you. I think that if you had a purpose or a direction as you're going into college is so like, hey, what fields interest you? Or even if you just wanted to go for a year or two and find out what interests you, that's okay. But I think going for the sake of going is a mess. And I think that your time and money could be better spent in other arenas, if you just think about it and are able to verbalize it have conversations with your parents and those people who influence you

Chuck Shute: 48:44

know, that's all let's a lot of what you just said there. But going back to like, yeah, the big business like you're right about that. And you're one example that's like really scary to me is banks, right? So like there's only these like giant banks. Remember when there used to be like we were kids, probably we even remember some Mom and Pop banks. Now what I'm told is that, because of all the regulations and laws, you have to have like a team of lawyers, if you wanted to open up a bank. So it's like there is the deck is stuck. I don't know how that's not like a monopoly on some of these these big businesses that are I'm more like definitely in your corner in terms of small business. I think that's where the future lies. I think getting more young people to whether it's maybe it is a college degree, but getting some sort of goals. I feel like so many people are lost. I think that's why our country seems so dark.

Sean Dowdell: 49:31

We have a lot of politicians that have helped steal and rob from our country for many years. You have politicians that make it legal to steal now, you have politicians that that turn the law into something that it's not supposed to be in the early 1900s you had these politicians like Teddy Roosevelt come along, and he'd want to break up these trust and these monopolies because they were so overwhelming in small communities that they literally owned the cities is seeing that now, but instead of a politician with balls coming along and say, This isn't right, you guys shouldn't have a monopoly in this area, you shouldn't be paying your taxes or nobody should be paying their taxes. It should be one or the other. It can't be you don't have to pay taxes. And you do. That is wrong. And right now you have these politicians, like, you know, Nancy Pelosi is an excellent example.

Chuck Shute: 50:28

She doesn't like her, I tell you that I had him on the show.

Sean Dowdell: 50:31

I don't like it either. I think I think she's one of the most corrupt people in politics, aside from Harry Reid, she, you know, when he retired, and he was the most corrupt politician I've ever, ever been introduced to, but you know, husband's making these gigantic stock trades to me and and not just one or two, he's doing it for many, many years. We all know it, we all see it. We all see the corruption, we all see them doing exactly what the law says you're not allowed to do. He buys stock right before a bill passes. He's done it many times. By the way, this should be called out he should be in jail, she should be kicked out of Congress, and everybody that I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican, if you're doing this shit, you should be arrested and thrown out of Congress. And that's how it should be. But they're all buddies. They're all in on the shit together. And that's what that's what I think is a really dark place for our country right now is when people are legalizing the theft and rape of this country. People

Chuck Shute: 51:29

are so loyal to their political parties, that even when their party makes a mistake, or does something blatantly corrupt, they will stay loyal to that party because they would rather you know, be a loyal republican or democrat than call out corruption. Yeah, you

Sean Dowdell: 51:44

have this cognitive dissonance right where people are they're afraid to speak their mind fears. The other part of that, you know, you see somebody come along, like, you know, if you're a Trump fan, and he says something absurd or stupid, people don't want to call it out. Or, you know, God should not have said that. That's really no,

Chuck Shute: 52:03

I'll tell you, Kayleigh McEnany she was the most brilliant press secretary, somehow she would twist his words. It's no, that's not what he meant. He meant that was like, she's really you, Republican, Democrat, you have to appreciate the way she spun and the shit he would say it was impressive.

Sean Dowdell: 52:19

I liked a lot of the economic stuff that he was doing. I thought he got it on a macro and microscale. But some of the stuff that would come out of his mouth. Man could not said that. But you know, and then the other side, we have this guy who can't even form a sentence, leaving the country now he's a complete buffoon. And you got the press go, Oh, he's so great. You fucking kidding me. I wouldn't even give this guy an interview in my company you guys are talking about. And that's not as politics aside, he literally can't speak. He can't form a sentence and he sees giant teleprompters. And he has to read from because he's so cognitively damaged, that he literally can't get through a simple conversation without getting lost. It's fascinating to me that the cognitive dissonance that Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 53:05

but that's a funny image. Along with it, thinking of him working at clubs out to that

Sean Dowdell: 53:13

you'd be surprised I think, I think I have quite a quite an impressive infrastructure in our company that you normally wouldn't think of when you think of tattoo and piercing it's literally a real business that does real numbers. And and I think a lot of what we'll call well, we'll just say entrepreneurs that that actually looked at our business model usually are pretty impressed with the way we've handled ourselves and, and navigated through a a business arena that doesn't look kindly upon what we do as far as our our sell what we do for our business, but at the same time. We're making waves and we're changing a lot of people's minds about how you look at the tattoo and piercing industry. And what a professional environment and luxury situation it really is.

Chuck Shute: 54:00

Yeah, no, I was reading your book. I'm like, I've just got a couple chapters left. I was actually I'm listening to it on audio and it's it's so good. I'm like oh man, this is like great stuff. Great, you know story, your personal story but also like how to build a business and all these challenges that you have. I think the most interesting thing is like how many people kind of like fuck you over like how you trusted so many people like in bands and things like what was the one band you had? Water

Sean Dowdell: 54:27

Water face

Chuck Shute: 54:28

water face? Yeah, they they kicked you out of your own band. It's like what like you're doing all this work and then they basically like kicked you out to grow and like it's a tried.

Sean Dowdell: 54:36

I mean, I told him I would do the tour the so how that happened was I told them I would finish the tour after I found out the singer the bass player was trying to extort money from our label because they didn't want to get jobs. I came to practice as a guys. What you're doing is asked backwards we need to work harder now unless you guys are looking for the easy way out. I will do this tour. We're doing the rock the boat tour with alien ant farm He said, I'll do the tour. After the tour, I'm done. So find another replacement. And then I came to rehearsal two nights later, like, Oh, we got a drummer out of LA. I'm like, okay, cool. And so that's how that went

Chuck Shute: 55:10

down. And then he soccer something to, I don't

Sean Dowdell: 55:14

know if he sucked, but he couldn't play what I was playing on the record. And I was doing a lot of interesting things on that record, which a lot of drummers may or may not be able to do. And the record label called me like two weeks after I left the band, like, can you please come back and play these shows? And I said, No, the way they were these guys handled themselves was so I'm gonna use the word unprofessional was a lot younger and more aggressive at the time. But, you know, they just, they were foolish. And I'm not doing that. And they're like, well, we'll pay you 2500 bucks a week, whatever it was. And I said, No, I'm not doing it. I've had my fill this project, you've got some real dark people in this band. And I don't want nothing to do with it. So my son was being born. And I'm still really good friends with the guitar player from that band named Randy, his name is Randy Martinez. Great guy.

Chuck Shute: 56:04

Yeah. So it's interesting. It's cool that you have that like out, you know what I mean? Where it's like, you have the tattoo thing happens, you didn't need the music kind of just, and that was no, then you did the studio stuff, too. But like that was kind of the end of the music for a while until now until grade eight, of course. Yeah. Well, I

Sean Dowdell: 56:20

played a couple little side projects with Chester along the way throughout the years in the 2000s. You know, we did bucket alliinase, which was pretty fun. And we would do these club tattoo anniversary parties and stuff like that I played on some other records and just help people out. And I always find I always, you know, putting my big toe in the in the proverbial producer, engineer, waters and music. never fully fully left music. But at the same time, it was never my bread and butter. Once you know, once good days broke up, or Wagga should say once I left water face,

Chuck Shute: 56:52

do you? Do you ever do live shows are like around Phoenix here? Like do you ever just pop in and play drums forever? Ever? Like?

Sean Dowdell: 56:59

No. Now that would be interesting. Now, every once in a while I get invited to do a studio session with somebody or I'm trying to think the last live show I did this a few months ago or something, but it's rare. I do enjoy playing live. So ya know, it's something I would like to do. But you know, people ask us, are we going to tour with gray days? And I think the bigger premise of that question is that the whole reason we did the gray days material was because while Chester was alive, this is something he wanted to do. We were working on it while he was alive. So to try to replace him as a singer and go out and play live without him makes no sense to me.

Chuck Shute: 57:40

Right? Why can't you do the hologram thing like they did?

Sean Dowdell: 57:45

I wouldn't feel right about it, you know, look, more power to the people that do that, you know, the D O camp and all those guys that are doing that kind of stuff. If that works for them great. I just for me, it would feel a little disingenuous a little cheesy for me to be up on stage with a hologram of Chester. Couple things to like, You got to remember that most people know Chester is the singer from Linkin Park, not the singer for grade eight. So if I did a hologram, it would look like Chester from Lincoln Park rather than when he was with grade A's and that we didn't really have any video of the band. After we put the band back together. We didn't get to that stage. So I don't think that would really work visually anyway. And even if I did have it, I wouldn't want to do it. It's just not. It's not a thing that I would want to do.

Chuck Shute: 58:27

Yeah, you're just putting out this music. It's kind of like what did I just had the guy from the President's United States say that that's what he feels when he puts out an album. It's like a piece of art. And he's like, he's done with it and that he doesn't want to tour on everything.

Sean Dowdell: 58:41

And since I met those guys, couple times, we tattooed them on that first big album. Oh, yeah. What's your tattoo a lot of people because we're right next to the big venue in in Phoenix called the electric power in Tempe rather and

Chuck Shute: 58:54

testify in Scottsdale. That's right. It's like literally down the street from me like a mile away.

Sean Dowdell: 58:59

No, it's not a patchy and Terrace in Tempe. Now it's now the music school for the music school for the arts or something. Okay, Tina is just like a high school but for me, if we do something live, it's going to be an attribute fashion where you know, we'll have Chester you know, we'll have his tracks and we'll bring on maybe some guest singers to sing along with Chester but not least Chester and it'll only be done. Maybe a one or you know, one off or two. And it will be done to honor him. It will not be done to replace it.

Chuck Shute: 59:36

Okay, well, that sounds really cool. But another thing I you know, I was gonna ask you about this too, because I thought this is interesting in your book when you talk about there was a point when you were kind of like in between bands and they were trying to get you to be the drummer for Pete Lauren from trickster. I was like what like, that's a crazy connection. Like how did that so that didn't actually happen though, because you ended up doing the water phase instead.

Sean Dowdell: 59:59

Yeah, was I should have done the Pete Lauren gig pizza good friend of mine, he's a great guy. For those who don't know, Pete used to sing for a band called trixter, early 90s. And they had that big, big hit, give it to me good or whatever. Well, this would have been 98 or 99. We had a record label executive come to one of our shows for waterbase. And he said, Hey, I want to talk to you from as your records whatever. We love how you play drums, we would love for you to play on a project we're signing. And I said, Well, what is it and so it's Pete Lauren used to be the Son of a Trickster, and I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but I'm gonna be honest here. I was like, I want to be the drummer for a guy and trickster because, you know, I'm thinking 1991, that's almost 10 years ago, it's glam rock. But that's not what Pete was doing. Pete was doing really cool, progressive kind of acoustic music that was really good. And I said, Look, I have a really good friend of mine named Edie Adams. I'll get him to play drums on the record for you because it's more his speed. He's a little older than I am. And I think it'd be a good fit. And then him and Pete hit it off really well ended up doing a record Pete and I ended up becoming very close friends, as we're ended up signing us water face to a deal through EMI records. And that's water faces record deal that I put together. But it all came about because they wanted me to play drums for Pete and he and Pete and I still talk to this day. He's a great guy. Awesome songwriter, too.

Chuck Shute: 1:01:26

Ya know, I'm a trickster fan. I've had mark on the drummer and I had Steve on the show. And Ben PJ. I met everyone except Pete. I don't know. He's kind of.

Sean Dowdell: 1:01:34

It's a great guy. Yeah, I'd

Chuck Shute: 1:01:36

love to have is he but he he's kind of like he's he quit trickster? Or what's the story there? Like, you know? No, I

Sean Dowdell: 1:01:42

think he still does one or two shows a year with those guys, from what I understand. I had lunch with them a few months back and told me that they were doing some festival in Georgia or something. And, oh, as far as I know, he's still in the band. Maybe maybe something else has happened that I'm not aware of. But yeah, just shoot me an email when we're done. And I'll give you each contact. He's a great guy.

Chuck Shute: 1:02:02

Okay, cool. Yeah. So last question. This is a kind of a big one. But I did want to get your take on this, because I heard you talking about the antidepressants with Chester. And I feel like that's another thing that nobody ever talks about with antidepressants and going off of them too fast, or, like there's all these side effects. And I almost think too, like I don't know, if you study with like the mass shooters, I feel like there's a connection there too. Have you looked into that at all? Like, what are you what is your thoughts on that?

Sean Dowdell: 1:02:29

I have not looked into anything about the mass shooters. But with antidepressants, I do think that the drug industry gets a lot more of a free pass on some of the stuff than they should. I do know that Chester was on antidepressants, and I do know he stopped taking his medication just prior to him passing away. I do know that there are some of these drugs, that when you go off them too quick, they make you have suicidal thoughts. So I do think that some of that had was at play here. When Chester's passing I really do not blaming anybody. Because at the end of the day, Chester was an adult and Chester could have refilled his medication and Done, done the things he was to do. But I think there's a couple of things that happen. Psychologically, when you're on these pills, you start to feel okay. And then you think I don't need them anymore. But you're not making the correlation between I feel okay, because I'm on these. The second thing is, well, I don't like the way these things make me feel I'm going to go off of them. So then you stop taking them and they make you spiral down faster or harder than you realize. And I think that all of those things, had some potential things potential. They were potential reasons as to our potential contributors to what Chester did. Yeah, that's what I think I you know, there's so many factors on this when we speak about losing him. The fact that he was by himself doesn't help. Chester was a guy that did not like to be by himself. So when he was back, he was in his house by himself. I think he was off his medication. And he you know, of course, was battling demons as well as sobriety and some other things and I just think it all culminated into the worst perfect storm you could you could have and that's how it ended up happening. That's my belief. And, you know, we'll never know 100% For sure. And like these conspiracy theories that are out there is just fucking so stupid. Oh, he was working on this, you know, pedophile? No, he wasn't. That's all bullshit. Like I get these emails. These people that want to talk about all this shit. That was never happening.

Chuck Shute: 1:04:46

Oh, yeah, I heard something about that, too, that he was going to expose this pedophile ring.

Sean Dowdell: 1:04:52

But none of that ever happened. They weren't on him and Chris, we're not even talking about anything like that. It was never in the works. That's all bullshit. None of that happened.

Chuck Shute: 1:05:01

That's some scary stuff when people can make up those kinds of rumors, and then they just gain traction. That's the scary thing about the internet.

Sean Dowdell: 1:05:09

I'm like, if somebody would have known it would have been me, I would have known about this 100% He would have fucking told me, there's no doubt in my mind that he would this would have been a conversation we had, and it never happened. And I and I don't he hadn't seen Chris for months, by the way, when he when he passed, and that's just bullshit.

Chuck Shute: 1:05:28

Yeah, no, but I do think the antidepressants, I think that's something that I'm not saying that causes suicide or mass shootings. But I feel like there's something that needs to be looked out there are correlations. I mean, these things are dangerous, in my opinion, like they can be they can be they can like, like you said, we go off them too fast. I mean, there's definitely something there that needs to be looked at, they should not be given out like candy.

Sean Dowdell: 1:05:51

No psychotropic properties that that a lot of these drugs have, can be very detrimental. And it's been proven in many cases. But when you have the kind of money in backing that you have from these pharmaceutical companies, and there's no accountability for some of the things that happen, it's really a recipe for just perpetuating the problem. No,

Chuck Shute: 1:06:13

it's scary stuff. Well, last time you were on, we promoted the New Leaf foundation. Are you still working with them? They help women get out of abusive relationships.

Sean Dowdell: 1:06:23

That's right. Well, they do a lot more than that. They help people get off the streets, they help. Basically, they help everyone who needs help with food, housing, and domestic abuse. And my wife is on the on the board of women with one voice now, which is a subset of the relief foundation where we're very large sponsor, main contributor for this, women with one voice and they are helping domestic abuse victims and get a place to stay a career path. I help them with childcare. They do a lot of really meaningful and impactful things in our community. And I'm so proud to be part of contributing to that organization. Awesome. I'll

Chuck Shute: 1:07:09

put that in the show notes along with a link for gray days. People can get the album on you said July 1, I believe, July 1, okay, they can download it for free. So then they should donate 15 bucks to the newly foundation. There you go. Yeah. Okay, thanks so much. Sean's great conversation.

Unknown: 1:07:26

Chuck, have an awesome day. All right, you too. All right, let's

Chuck Shute: 1:07:28

see, oh, hey, by gray days, check out the new album, it's called the Phoenix. It's going to be out July 1 2022. So it may or to be out depending on when you're listening to this. By now you should know the drill, following the guest and myself on social media sharing, liking, commenting, all that helps support us. And I'm very incredibly thankful for all the support that I've received a coming up on three years of doing this podcast, and I'm averaging over 10,000 over 10,000 downloads a month between YouTube and the audio. So pretty crazy when I think about I don't know how many that is bots or whatever. But I want to thank you all for that if you're still listening, and I just want to continue to grow the show, and we only grow with your support. So if you enjoy the show, please show your support with again, liking, sharing, commenting, or write a review or rating that would really help me out. Thank you so much for sticking with us. Have a great rest of your day and remember to shoot for the moon