Chris Ballew (The Presidents of The U.S.A., Caspar Babypants)

Chris Ballew is the frontman for the Seattle rock band The Presidents of the United States of America. He also makes children’s music under the pseudonym “Caspar Babypants.”  He has a new solo record out now titled “Soul Unfolded” and another one coming out in July called “Primitive God.” In this episode we discuss his new music and the creative process, plus making music & videos with the Presidents, how they got the Drew Carey theme song, working with Beck, getting drunk with Dave Grohl and more! Very fun episode! 

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:49 - Things in Common & Seattle Living 
0:04:20 - Making Music to Make People Feel Good 
0:05:55 - Nap Dance & New Album "Soul Unfolded" 
0:09:20 - Keyboards & Sounds 
0:16:25 - Primitive God & Making Music 
0:18:41 - Caspar Babypants TV Show
0:22:16 - Staying Creative, Meditation & Ram Dass 
0:25:55 - Lump & Music Video 
0:27:55 - Roman Coppola & Other Music Videos 
0:30:24 - Kicks, Energy & Beck 
0:33:45 - Dealing with Fame & Success 
0:36:55 - The Drew Carey Show Theme Song 
0:38:45 - Doing Live Shows & Performing 
0:43:15 - Freedom, Providing Joy & Collaborating 
0:47:49 - Famous People 
0:49:10 - Psychedelic Journey & Influences 
0:51:10 - Movies 
0:53:42 - PEPS, Well Spring & Mary's Place 
0:55:35 - Drunk with Dave Grohl in the Late 90s 
0:58:45 - Krist Novoselic 
1:02:10 - Outro 

Chris Ballew website:
https://chrisballew.org

PEPS website:
https://www.peps.org

Well Spring Family Services website:
https://wellspringfs.org

Mary's Place website:
https://www.marysplaceseattle.org

Chuck Shute website:
http://chuckshute.com

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:00

Hey, what's up everybody? I hope you're all doing well. We've got a special treat for you today. Chris Balu is on the show. You know him from the frontman of the presidency United States of America, or you know him from his alter ego Casper baby pants where he performs kids music, and he's going to talk about his new solo record today. It's called Soul unfolded, and we discuss some of the songs the creative process. Plus he tells me some great stories about his days in the President's making videos how they got The Drew Carey theme song working with back getting drunk with Dave Grohl, Kurt Cobain's ghost and more stay right there don't know how many of those are bots or whatever, but I'll take

Chris Ballew: 0:51

Okay, the bots need entertainment too. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 0:54

that's true. Yeah. podcasts. I mean, podcasts are hard to get to get people to listen to it's I know, trying to get people to listen to music is tough. But you have like three minutes songs like that's more easier to sell than like an hour long podcast.

Chris Ballew: 1:10

Yeah, that's true. It's a commitment to podcasts. Although it shouldn't be you know, you should know I tried to apply that this theory with movies. I love movies. And sometimes I just throw the dice on a movie I've never heard of. And I'm not you know tied to it or anything. So I after three or four minutes if I don't like it, or if I'm not compelled, I just stop watching it. So there isn't any good movies lately. There's a lot of new stuff coming out over Memorial Day weekend. Oh, yeah. Like, you mean the new release kind of stuff. I like I watch weird old movies. I watch you know, the shining and other movie. Oh my god. And then I watch movies about the shining. Oh, like the one was it like room whatever the room number is that documentary? To 37 to 37. That's it. That was a weird they're saying like the kid wore the shirt with the moon, Apollo 13. That means they really didn't land on the moon and Stanley Kubrick directed it and yep, yep, yep. Well, I've noticed behind you though, you're no stranger to surrealism, you've got Salvador Dali and the Beatles. Both very surreal. Yeah. Well, I know you're a fan of both. And I heard you saying that Salvador Dali was your favorite artist. And I was like, Oh, he's mine too. And so I grabbed that book. It's like a coffee table book. I was like, I'll put that up there. That's like, okay. Yeah. And I'm from Seattle, too. So we have a lot in common. Okay, well, what part of Seattle? It's ACWA. Oh, yeah. My brother lives out on Tiger Mountain. So Oh, really? Yep. Okay, so did you grow up on Bainbridge Island? I know you live on Vashon island now but no, I grew up on Yarrow point which is the one of the three points on the east side of the 520 bridge. There's hunger, Yarrow and evergreen point. Okay, I heard somebody say Bainbridge I couldn't I couldn't I didn't it wasn't your Wikipedia or anything. So I was like I don't know if that's even right so but mash on now right. That's a ferry ride. There's no bridge on the it's only ferry right? Yeah, only ferry there's two ferries there's a South Ferry that goes to Tacoma. And then the North very goes to Fauntleroy West Seattle. And I love it. I love the ferry ride is great. I, I look at it as the cheapest boat I've ever owned, you know, like, for 26 bucks or 32 in peak season or whatever. I get out of the car. I stand on a lien on the rail, watch the world go by and I get out on the water for you know, 30 bucks.

Chuck Shute: 3:29

How often do you have to go out from that? Do you spend most your days just recording doing music on Bashar and your studio?

Chris Ballew: 3:36

That's it at this stage of life? Yeah, I'm I'm like a retired hobbyist. Now I'm just making music because it makes me happy and I'm releasing it and everything but I'm giving it away for free and on my website and other places and yeah, just Yeah, living on the island. I really only go in when it's time to get on an airplane or buy vitamins or the

Chuck Shute: 3:59

can you does Amazon deliver? Do they get on the ferry? Yeah,

Chris Ballew: 4:02

I guess. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We have a truck coming down our drive. Like every other day. My wife is an artist. And so she's always ordering canvases and art supplies and stuff like that. So yeah, we've gotten to know our UPS guy.

Chuck Shute: 4:15

Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So I love how you say music is free. You're not charging it because you're just making music to make people feel good. What a refreshing like, take on that.

Chris Ballew: 4:25

Yeah, well, it's always been the communal part of the equation with music has always been a factor for me. It has to something about my intention and how it affects other people has got to be locked in place before I'm like, That's it. I'm like a hunt and peck experimenter. And then when the chemistry gels I just dive right into that chemistry like the presidents had this kind of innocence and innuendo, funky little rock band kind of Cabaret act thing and it was like all that clicks because every song we sang The point was to elevate the room live like we were really a live band making records was kind of confusing for us. But live was our purpose, which was elevating a room. And then with the CASPER baby pants thing, the communal aspect was families who were stressed out or parents who were overtired. And kids who needed entertainment, that wasn't stupid. And I could get the parents and the kids together in the same room. So there was like this communal, aesthetic thing going on. And now I'm thinking about, I make music where it's like, you should put it up, maybe put it on headphones and lie down and take a trip, you know, have a psychedelic journey, like Sergeant Pepper's was for me when I was a little kid. So I'm trying to do a more internal kind of single listener minded internal experience. So it's always been hard. It's like a piece of the puzzle. And then when it locks in, I'm like, I go crazy.

Chuck Shute: 5:54

Yeah, I always look at music. What is the point of it? Like what are you supposed to do with this music and this stuff? What did you call it? Nap dance or nap trance or

Chris Ballew: 6:02

nap dance music? Yeah, I made my first album The intention. The thought was like, You should be able to dance to it like this, like little dance or? or lie down and dance to it. Like, you know,

Chuck Shute: 6:15

yeah, those are pretty much my dance moves right there. So I can actually dance along to this. I love it. Yeah, no, it's really this. You say Sergeant Pepper's on, like, that's perfect. Because it is it's like the psychedelic. But when I say like the point to the music, what for me, we were listening to this on our drive and Memorial Day. And I was like, and also it was the center right before this podcast. And both times. It's like, it's like so relaxing. Like it just like relaxes you. Like I feel like yeah, it's kind of the, the purpose.

Chris Ballew: 6:43

Yeah, the purpose is, I mean, you know, the lyrics. What I'm singing about is all sort of internal ego management, enlightenment, birth, death, quantum physics, kind of stew of concepts. And those are all sort of, yeah, like internal. I'm trying to take those concepts and put them to music that's loopy and kind of groovy. And you know, like, when I'm mixing a song for this project, if I if I find myself mixing a song, and I'm like, starting to fade out, I'm like, Yeah, okay, I got it. That's it.

Chuck Shute: 7:17

Yeah, it's cool. It's like the song tonight. It's such a cool baseline. But and it's like, that's got the definitely the psychedelic thing. The lyrics like, what does that how to raise sounds so interesting. Take a tiger and put it in my shoe. We're going to wake you up and make you go to bed. We're going to turn on all the lights in our head. I was like, Yeah, well, that's, that's the thing, like, you want to relax, but you also like, Wait, I gotta pay attention these lyrics. They're fun. Well, thank

Chris Ballew: 7:41

you. Yeah, I'm trying to experiment with this thing where the groove or the music is kind of maybe the move slightly more dominant feature, and then the lyrics are there if you want to dig deep and understand them, but I try to couch them down a little bit. So they're not demanding immediate attention. You know, like with the President's and with Caspar, it was lyrics up story up imagery up. And this one is more like, I'm letting them be abstract and kind of weave into the music. So you can, like, you know, get the lyrics online or whatever, or listen, and you know, there's a deeper experience there. But you don't have to, you can kind of just ride the wav

Chuck Shute: 8:19

you can you can understand the lyrics. I think that's the problem with a lot of music. Like I think Cobain wrote some probably some pretty intelligent lyrics, but like, you can't understand what he's saying half the time. Like, you have to, like read the lyrics. Whereas like, with your stuff, you can the lyrics are very clear.

Chris Ballew: 8:34

Yeah. Well, that's an intention. That's how I enjoy music. That's an aspect of music that's very important to me is what is being what's the picture being painted? If I listened to a song, and I just see a band in a room, and a mixing board and the guitars and the amps, I'm not traveling? And I think, yeah, lyrics make you travel. And that piece of the puzzle for songwriting is super important to me. So yeah, even if I put a lot of reverb on them, or echo or whatever, I also kind of want to ride that line where you can understand them. So otherwise, it's a whole lost, you know, aspect to the experience.

Chuck Shute: 9:13

Now, yeah, it's definitely an important part of this album, I think. And then, yeah, the song loop on the moon. I really liked the keyboards and the synthesizers now you know, Roger Manning from jellyfish who also actually tours with back who you toured this, have you ever seen his collection of like, he hears so many keyboards and sends synthesizers and stuff like that?

Chris Ballew: 9:33

I bet he does. I know people like that get real obsessive. I can't do that. I'm a minimalist. My studio is just a tiny corner of a guest bedroom, in my house. And I have all I have for synthesizers is an iPad. And really, yeah, so on this iPad, I've got like, just the other day a friend of mine was talking about how great the Juno the Roland Juno 106 is. I just got One it weighs nothing, it's, I don't have for it. And I have this I have this Yamaha piano that I love and I just do the MIDI thing and I'm off and running. So yeah, I have I have a whole bunch of synthesizers in here and Mellotron strings horns, anything that cares comes out of this thin little slab

Chuck Shute: 10:24

wait so because wasn't there on that song I think was in there. Like it sounded like a real piano was that just the electronic too?

Chris Ballew: 10:31

Well, that's the lead that's the Yamaha this Yamaha p 121. Or whatever it is. It's a weighted keyboard and it has speakers so your fingers feel like you're playing a piano because when you play a real piano, you can feel the vibration in your fingers. It's a fantastic it's an affordable like $600 piano and the Yamaha has just perfected the piano emulation game. So yeah, love this thing. I'll show you what it looks like. Oh, yeah.

Chuck Shute: 10:59

Oh, that's awesome. And then you can you can play all those sounds. Plugging in through the iPad, it goes into the Okay,

Chris Ballew: 11:06

that's it. And then the nice thing about the Yamaha into the iPad is the audio signal flows back to the Yamaha. So when I'm playing the iPad, it's coming through these beautiful speakers on the Yamaha. So the the vintage synth stuff I'm doing just sounds like stereophonic and rich and it's lovely. So Right.

Chuck Shute: 11:24

So and then didn't you say like that's kind of where you started when you were recording music was with the 80 cents. So some of these are left over from like your early days.

Chris Ballew: 11:32

Yeah, the songs are definitely I'm finishing songs. I started in like 1981 8283 songs where it's funny, I think the medically, I was already thinking about these ideas about existence and you know, being human, but I wasn't able to really articulate, you know, instead, I kind of channeled it into like suburbia sucks kind of themes. And I had these synthesizers, but I didn't have anything to record them on. I had two boom boxes, and I was bouncing back and forth with cassettes. And so they ended up sounding terrible. And then I had this like fake English accent that I was sick. So I was like this terribly embarrassing vocal performance with this terrible sound. But as I'm doing this new music, as I often do, when I find that chemistry that sort of sets off a volcano of creativity, I go back over all these bread crumb, little sonic bits, I have 1000s of recordings of me just like sketching songs. And I go back and I find all these songs that are relevant to whatever I'm doing at the moment and finish them. And so I'm super satisfying because that whole area like early 80s, you know, boombox Sound on Sound Recording. I listened to those things and I'm kind of like, Oh, I think I was I was going for something. Oh, I think my Yeah. My my little vacuuming robot just decided to start.

Chuck Shute: 13:00

Oh, oh, you gotta love that technology. Alan, what are you doing? That's Alan. Steve named him. Okay. Yeah, that's awesome. We have one of those to my girlfriend's in charge of I don't even know if I had know how to work it

Chris Ballew: 13:13

all on. Of course, I turned off my phone. And the only way I can tell it to shut up. Okay, hold on. I'm accessing it now. This is the downfall of the overambitious cleaning robot is he just doesn't know when to write. I usually don't have him in my studio, but my, my wife and I share a studio building. He's just grinding. My wife and I share a studio building and she brought it into the studio building to clean today and I forgot there was

Chuck Shute: 13:47

so is that studio. That's not part of your house. Is it or is it

Chris Ballew: 13:50

separate building? Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 13:51

we're building. Okay.

Chris Ballew: 13:53

We have the house building and then the studio building. Okay, he's gonna go back home now. It's just going to be a second. Alan, you're good. You're good, Alan. I appreciate you. But not now. Okay, gotcha. What was I saying? I Oh, yeah. Just finishing songs from the 80s. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The songs credibly satisfying to know that I wasn't completely solipsistic and on the wrong track. You know what I mean?

Chuck Shute: 14:19

Right now, I kind of want to hear these demos with a fake British accent though. No, you don't.

Chris Ballew: 14:25

You do not want to hear him. And I do not want you to hear all that. He's gonna do a big, big.

Chuck Shute: 14:33

Wow, where we would show robot is that I can't hear you. You went mute for a second.

Chris Ballew: 14:46

Yeah, I know. It was crazy. You know, actually, that reminds me there was one new song I was working on. I was doing the instrumental music for it. And I didn't quite have the point. I wasn't at the point where I had lyrics or I hadn't improvised any thing lyrically on it and our house was being finished up and there was a guy a worker outside with a Shopback and he was powering it up and paring it down. And you know using it momentarily, and it was gone. And I I turned my mic on actually, I have the same mic you do. Look at that. Oh, wow. Yeah, using it for this, but I turned my mic on super hot and captured that sound. Put it on the song I was working on and it was exactly in the right key. It was like, weird. Yeah. And then I ended up writing all the lyrics. It ended up being a song called breathing in a vacuum, which was kind of like about I don't know, floating free in outer space or something.

Chuck Shute: 15:43

That's is that on the new album? Did I put that on the album? I think I did. Did you? Yeah. Because I always I'm always like bad with the song titles and I'm like, Oh, the number the Oh, it's the third song okay, because I think I listened to the I've listened to the thing a few other the whole album a few times. I don't

Chris Ballew: 15:59

Well, there's two levels there's I am not me and so unfolded and I think it might be on so unfolded. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. No. Breathing in a vacuum. No, I didn't know I don't think it's actually

Chuck Shute: 16:12

it doesn't sound familiar.

Chris Ballew: 16:14

I can look okay.

Chuck Shute: 16:17

Yeah, I don't see it on so on folded. But screaming I gotta hear that.

Chris Ballew: 16:21

How do I not know this?

Chuck Shute: 16:23

This? So that will come out in the next one then?

Chris Ballew: 16:27

I guess so. Oh, yes. Yes. Right. That's why I don't see it here or here. It's because it's on primitive God, which is coming out in July.

Chuck Shute: 16:38

Oh, there's already another one coming out. Oh, yeah. The first single

Chris Ballew: 16:42

just untwist is out now. And then album comes out in July. Yeah, that's why there's a third album, oh, your production

Chuck Shute: 16:49

is crazy. Like you you make so much music. It's insane.

Chris Ballew: 16:53

It is it's kind of embarrassing. I mean, I just over the course of the last three days wrote three new songs. And the last thing I need to be doing right now is writing new songs. But I when I hit that chemistry point, when the volcano erupts, I just write it and then you know, I could go for 567 years with with you know, no inspiration. Maybe, maybe not that long. I have gone through maybe a couple of times for two years. I didn't write any songs actually right before I started doing this new music that we've been talking about. During the pandemic I finished and released three Casper baby pants albums at the same time. And then took a break took my studio apart put it away in boxes put everything away I play music every day play piano play guitar, but no goals no end result you know no songwriting just being in you know, the moment playing music and so yeah, I've I've gone through phases where it's not about songwriting, it's just about making noise. Because either the gift has left me or I've decided to put it away for a while.

Chuck Shute: 18:04

hmm wow, that's it's amazing. It's such the opposite like Guns and Roses they took I don't know how long it was to make Chinese Democracy and you're putting out stuff like every year like multiple albums. It's currently

Chris Ballew: 18:15

I'm doing January and July. That's my my pattern. So do we Yeah. Yeah. To a year I didn't 19 Casper baby pants albums in 10 years, or 12 years about. And so that beat the Beatles? I think so. I'm about to beat the Beatles twice in two different forms. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 18:37

somebody tell me about Casper baby pants pants. Are you doing a TV show about that? Well, what's the story with that?

Chris Ballew: 18:43

It's in development, kind of slowly in development with Village Roadshow in LA. And you know, we have an idea. We have a concept. We've gone through one phase of like getting super excited about an idea and then I was like, it's not right let's erase the whole thing. And here's a new way to go. So yeah, working on it. You know, I don't really need in my mind, I don't really need to do a TV show. I'm interested in doing it if I can do it in a way that makes it like perennially classic. I'm not interested in just doing something kind of of the moment or trendy or throw away I want to do something like really sublime and beautiful. You know, we need a The reason we stopped with the previous idea was I realized we need like a Michel Gondry or a Charlie Kaufman or a Spike Jones. Michel Gondry that I sent Michel Gondry twice. I don't know. Okay. Or Michel Gondry, or Michel Gondry? You know, we need a genius mind to shepherd the intellectual property from one form to another because it's extremely hard to do without ruining the magic. I also feel like this TV show is already happening in the brains of children because they love song And they see their own little movie go off. Anyway, so all that aside, I'm excited to do it if it works, but I'm also kind of like, I've been down this road about eight or nine times with different production companies, people, and it always kind of just disintegrates because people change jobs or, you know, people move horizontally in the business and then the new person is like, I don't want any of those projects they were working on let's, you know.

Chuck Shute: 20:26

So would it be a live action like you would start it? Or it was like more of an animation where you do the voiceover? Would you just give the music and somebody else does all the acting on that?

Chris Ballew: 20:36

No, I'd be definitely involved, it's going to be very abstract, it's going to be no language at all, it's going to be start out with a white screen. Basically, we're going to reverse engineer a music video for each song, so to speak, like Eleanor, the elegant elephant. So we've got an elephant in a tutu, and a castle with a king and a queen and all these elements, right? So the show would be a white background, and then like, say, a hand animated hand would come in and cut paper and make an elephant, right, and then that elephant would maybe change into a pencil drawing, and then it would morph and then another element would be made by these hands. And it would be just this constant sort of like imaginative, magical journey of morphing characters, and you're building the world that will be the video eventually, at the end of the six minute segments, you spent four minutes building the world, magically, imaginatively with different, you know, media and formats and, and then the music during that building world building part would be elements from the song but you know, teased out and improvised, like the bass sound from the song or the xylophones or whatever would be part of the building. But then they would also appear in full fledged form in the song so it's going to basically show the creative process not tell anybody anything, but show what it's like to you know, use your imagination and put something together. So that's the idea. So that's why I need I need like a playful visual genius like Michel Gondry.

Chuck Shute: 22:15

Gotcha. How do you got How do you get all these ideas? Like how do you stay so creative? I mean, I know like the the peach is one of your biggest hits. That was you took LSD right? It's not the story with that. And then you were like, knocking on the girl's door and there was a peach tree that so but you are still taking the psychedelics or do you meditate? Or is it just it just come to you?

Chris Ballew: 22:34

The second Alex worked as advertised. I think I took LSD four times. Oh, and your whole life? Yeah, my whole life. It really I was like, I'm done the doors open. And I don't need to keep opening the door. It's it's been kicked open. The door of perception is wide open. And I see it now. And so these days, yeah, it's not about drugs. It's just, yeah, meditation. I do kind of a meditation thing twice a day. Not because I feel like I have to but because my mind is so active that it really helps zero me out. I start the day with it. And I do it in the afternoon too. And

Chuck Shute: 23:09

which which one do you do?

Chris Ballew: 23:12

Oh, just I do a breathing thing. Like a 10 minute breathing thing in the afternoon. But in the morning, I do a longer like somewhere between 40 minutes and an hour of like stretching, I have all these stretches I need to do because of the way I play guitar and my shoulders kind of messed up. And we moved into this house and I kind of hurt my back. So I'm kind of fixing things. But I'm also deep breathing and I listened to I'm a big fan of ROM Das. He's an incredible teacher guy's spiritual guide, sort of. He's hilarious. He's kind of like a metaphysical stand up comedian. He's so human and he's so spiritual at the same time and his teachings and his lectures and ideas are show up in a lot of the lyrics for this new stuff I'm doing so he's a big influence. So in the morning, I'll put on a little ambient music that I made because I've made all this meditation music. And then I'll put on YouTube, I put a little rom das lecture and I mix in my music and then I have kind of this custom soundtrack to my to my morning and that kind of can direct my mind creatively to for the day, like the song I'm just finishing up is directly related to a lecture I listened to yesterday. So okay, but you know, there's a lot of outside influence and kind of zeroing out my mind being wide open and then accepting all this, you know, keeping my just ears open and my radar mind on things just fall into my lap ideas. So and then I just get in my studio every day and I'll just pick a random instrument just start playing and something might spark and I'm off you know, like, it's really fun. It's way more fun now because it previously like with Casper and the President's. The songs had an underlying kind of story or A more storytelling and visual related kind of lyric tone. And I always thought like, I'd love to make music that's more intuitive and more kind of abstract and, but I was really stuck with this like narrative hook kind of thing. So it's I finally arrived at a place where I'm really just playing with words as much as I'm playing with sound and, and allowing myself to be weird. Like, you know, I put a tiger in my shoe. Yeah, that's

Chuck Shute: 25:28

such a great song line.

Chris Ballew: 25:30

I don't know why I saying that. You know, it's like, There's that famous story about Paul McCartney and hey, Jude saying the, the movement you need is on your shoulder and him turning to John when he was previewing the song and saying, Oh, I'll change that. And John's like, No, you won't. You're gonna keep that it doesn't make any sense. You got to have it in there. So I think about that a lot when I sing that line. And when I was improvising lyrics for that song I was like, I'm just gonna keep tiger in my shoe sounds what

Chuck Shute: 25:55

is that? See? I feel like that's kind of the you were like that with the President's to like, I listened to that interview did with Kristen makes from less than Jake, where you guys spent an entire episode just talking about the song lump and you went through like, piece by piece and, and I was like, oh, yeah, never when you really break down lyrics. And it's like, yeah, like how did and he's like, quizzing you on like, how you came up with every line. It was really fascinating.

Chris Ballew: 26:18

Well, that's a good example of a song where I did touch on the abstractness. I mean, it's, it's still for me, it was a visual, but a lot of people were like, what slump about and I'm like, it's, I say exactly. The song. It's a woman in a housecoat in a river with Puranas who are confused by her and she's, you know, a slob.

Chuck Shute: 26:40

On that video, by the way, because that's gotta be in Seattle, right?

Chris Ballew: 26:43

Yeah, that was at the Arboretum. Here in Seattle. It's a really cool, huge park with you know, it's an arboretum, basically. Okay, so there's a whole kind of swampy zone in the Arboretum. And that's where we did it. And that that was tough. That was a tough shoot day, because about four days or a week earlier, I accidentally tried to move a piano bench by grabbing it in the far side, and it fell over on my toe. And so my toes just like crushed. And I had to wear a like, plastic bag because we were in the water, right? Like toe is like an open wound. And I didn't want to be in the swampy water with an open toe. So my memory of that shoot is I had like a plastic bag on my foot that was constantly like leaking and filling with water. And we had to like change it every shot and it was a real pain in the butt. Yeah, I love that video.

Chuck Shute: 27:35

Yeah, no, I love the video the song and then I never noticed the way you said that the one part where you like me only when you wanted it. That was a trip. That was a direct tribute to Nirvana.

Chris Ballew: 27:44

Oh, kind of Yeah, yeah. Where we bend up. Yeah, it's a little nod to like, hey, in my new complaint. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 27:54

that's really cool. So the guy that did all your videos, Roman Coppola, like, are you following Him? Like he was just nominated for an Oscar right?

Chris Ballew: 28:01

Oh, wow. I don't know. No, I haven't stayed in touch with Grohmann. So I don't know what he's up to. We did stay in touch for a while. And one time I called him. He gave me a phone number to call him or something. And I called him and Francis Ford Coppola answered, it turned out to be the family farm or whatever, the winery where they were hanging out. And I was like, Mr. Coop, Luke and Roman come out of.

Chuck Shute: 28:28

Yeah, no, that's yeah. But he was just nominated for an Oscar for Moonrise Kingdom. But I heard you say that. You said half the videos that they did where you guys did were brilliant. But the other half were so bad, you never release them. So one of

Chris Ballew: 28:42

them one of them. One, the kitty video we never released, we spent like $110,000 on it. And it was just kind of brown. And we have these trained animals. We had like a stump mouse and a stunt cat and a stunt dog and all these extra things, but it just didn't. It was supposed to be from the point of view of a cat. And I was just kind of jittery and dull looking. And we'll all looked at it and and we were we were it was at a house in LA and when the band came into the shot, we were in our bathrobes outside playing and we all just look kind of skinny and anemic and in our dirty bathrobes. So yeah, we we've shelved that one. There was another one for dune buggy which also was kind of dark it was like a more conceptual thing like and we played the song live in that one and that complicated things, but we released that one but when Roman was on like the Mach Five video did he make the Mach Five video with us?

Chuck Shute: 29:40

I think so. Yeah, yeah. So like it was the first eight videos or something?

Chris Ballew: 29:45

Yeah, I was like yeah, definitely lamp and peaches. We made two videos for lamp we shot so much stuff that day. And then peaches and man the Mach Five video is I think it's my favorite. It's so it's what the kiddie video didn't have which is it's bright and shiny and plasticky and super fun. And we ripped off one of our best friends bands, the young fresh fellows, they had a video where they all played drums. And so that was where we got the idea at the end of Mach Five, where we're all drumming. So hats off to the unfresh fellows for the inspiration.

Chuck Shute: 30:21

Well, who inspires you do the kicks and stuff like in lump when you're in the jumping? And you do that a lot of you do that? You still do that? Now? I think, are you doing it a few years ago? I mean, was that from David Lee Roth, or where did that come from?

Chris Ballew: 30:32

You know, it's from looking at magazines when I was a little kid, with bands. And I mean, they all look so still and sad and dour. And like, I always thought to myself, if I ever get to a point where everyone's watching me perform, or I'm having my picture taken for a magazine cover, I'm gonna be rubber faced and weird and like energy, and you gotta want to bring something else to this whole, like, you know, everybody in the band is like a pillar, just like staring and standing.

Chuck Shute: 30:59

Well, I think people are trying to be cool, and you're just like, oh, fuck, I'm gonna have fun.

Chris Ballew: 31:04

Better, I want to be warm.

Chuck Shute: 31:07

Well, that is not something that you you learn from back, because even though I know that you you probably learned a lot of good things. But that was something that you didn't like about his stage show was that he was a little too wooden. Right? Well, he was

Chris Ballew: 31:19

well, you know, to in his defense, he was disoriented. You know, he'd never been in charge of a band. He'd never been in a band. And here's like, I get he gets signed. He has money. He has these people that he's in charge of. It's hugely disorienting. And so he didn't know really how to handle that. Plus, he the song loser was not his favorite SCI was something that he kind of tossed off and then it became a big deal. And so he really wanted to kind of dismantle this happy go lucky, you know, slacker generation, Pied Piper thing that he had been saddled with. So he loved Sonic Youth. And part of the reason he signed to Geffen was because Sonic Youth is on Geffen and so we kind of were like Sonic Youth Jr. A little bit. Trying to like bring some grit and like shock these kids who showed up expecting this kind of happy go lucky loser guy with some like, you know, dirty shit. So and that just wasn't my scene. And I was way more into like, let's were wearing cowboy hats, and I spray painted my guitar gold and I would wear these flashy shirts. And one night one night when we opened up for Evil Knievel who did a C was on a speaking tour doing an inspirational kind of, you know, thing from a podium dressed as himself evil and evil. That's a whole story hanging out with people can evil. Oh, that would be so cool. I mean, the little kid in me was losing his mind. Right? You know, the Sonic Youth people were there. And we're all you know, everything's buzzing and cool. And but I convinced the band that that would be the night. I think it was Halloween or something, too. So we all dressed up crazy that night. And that was my favorite gag of the entire thing. Because we were all just like showbiz. Of course, then I quit. And he adapted his live show to be like, you know, almost like, I think he even did the James Brown thing where he's like, got the cloak on. And then he, he takes it off and like comes back for more. So he turned into this, like, super showman. I just think he was finding his way. You know, like, I don't think that he tore a page out of my playbook, necessarily, but I think he found his voice which was way more, you know, flashy and entertaining. Then the version I was in with him. So yeah.

Chuck Shute: 33:41

And you said that you kind of learned how to deal with like fame and PR and all that stuff by watching him.

Chris Ballew: 33:47

Yeah, kind of what we I was the only band member not from LA. So I lived with him while we were rehearsing for the first tour. And yeah, we drive around LA if he had a like radio thing to do, I'd go along and bring my weird little banjo and we accompany him and stuff. So we talked about his transformation and about what it was like and how disorienting it was and how you know what he wanted to do or identifying what he wanted to achieve first and then trying to achieve it. I think when he got signed and when I was hanging out with him he stopped smoking pot and drinking alcohol and he's and he would read like I remember my vision of him for that first van tour was he's in the back of the van with like American history books just like absorbing the world like Alright time to come out of my a little bit out of my you know, like surreal inner experience and ingest the world so I can then regurgitate it back in an intelligent way. So I highly respected his way he handled it and how articulate he was about it with me and then I you know, so it was like going to fame school and then I got to do my own experience.

Chuck Shute: 34:55

So yeah, and how how was that for you? Is that because I've talked to a lot of musicians and like I'll ask them like was that like, the most amazing thing on top of the world? And a lot of them are like, no, it kind of sucks. Like you're busy all the time and stressed and

Chris Ballew: 35:07

yeah, it's it's hard like I just described with back, you know, like, we went from being happy go lucky little guys, you know having a barbecue in the afternoon smoking some pot. Oh, maybe we had a show later that night and hanging out. We lived in this like funky shaky house and. And then all of a sudden we had a global company. And we had to be grownups and we had to publishing companies and, you know, book shows and tours and follow through with commitments and do five interviews an hour. And yeah, it's disorienting. It's a combo though, because like there's a huge amount of validation that comes along with like, say, being Grammy nominated. And, you know, people showing up all over the country all over the world to hear us play live. That's when you really like that, again, that communal relationship was the like, the grounding force, you know, that outside of that, that communal grounding, live relationship, you know, situation. There's just a lot of noise, a lot of politics and responsibilities and you know, exhaustion and you don't eat well on tour. You don't sleep. Well. I couldn't sleep in the bus. So if we did a nighttime drive, I just stayed up all night. So yeah, so you've kind of run yourself ragged, but it's so it's a mixed bag. My gut feeling when it all happened was let's break up like the Sex Pistols. Yeah, immediately and just freeze the band in this perfect state. And I'll go on and do something else. But like, I like to say if you're writing a pony, and it's shitting gold bricks, you probably want to hang on to the main as long as you can.

Chuck Shute: 36:54

Well, yeah, and so and then one of your your biggest ponies I would say it was shouldn't Brexit as The Drew Carey Show, right that it had you write the theme song? Tell me the story with that. Did he personally pick you guys to cover that song?

Chris Ballew: 37:07

He did? Yeah. We were on the Rosie O'Donnell Show as the musical guest and he was a guest on the show. And he came to our trailer behind the show. I don't know why they didn't have I don't know where she was taping it. But we were in a trailer. Okay, and drew comes in with like two leggy supermodels on each arm.

Chuck Shute: 37:30

And hangs out to

Chris Ballew: 37:32

her. Yeah, I can't remember if he's I think he was wearing a suit. Yeah, like a suit. Sure. He just came in and we hit it off. And when it came time, they had a theme song already but the idea of covering Ian Hunter's song Cleveland rocks. And he pitched us on it and we're like Hell yeah, so we did it and at the very end of the song when it goes Oh, hi. Oh, hi. Yeah, that's drew doing we had him call it into the studio over the phone.

Chuck Shute: 38:03

So is that like a big it's not a thing where it's like you do that one time and then that just like every time they play you guys get a little check right?

Chris Ballew: 38:10

Yeah, we it was a really it was an eye opening like oh, there's a way I could do music that's not about being on tour. And so I actually that job launched me on like a 15 year career doing soundtrack music theme songs commercials, stuff for like corporate events, custom stuff and then I developed a huge like 700 piece library of ready made music that I licensed through a company called pomp audio and that really kept the lights on when I quit the President's in 1998 for the next like 10 years, so

Chuck Shute: 38:46

yeah, well and then the CASPER thing too, because you were when you were doing live shows with Casper too, right?

Chris Ballew: 38:51

Oh yeah, I did 1247 live shows with Casper.

Chuck Shute: 38:56

I think my sister took my nephew to see you. I think my nephew was a big fan of you. Would you do like birthday parties and stuff too?

Chris Ballew: 39:04

I did if I would go on and off with birthday parties sometimes I like doing them because they're weird and sometimes I didn't like doing them because they're weird but yeah, I didn't feel I didn't on and off throughout the whole thing. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 39:18

Okay, yeah, cuz I heard you say and this was like such a refreshing take from a musician that you kind of got tired of playing a lot of the same songs over and over like with presidents or with Casper like you would rather make the music and then you said you thought of it more like a piece of art like okay, this art is done. Now. I want to move on to the next piece of art. So it got monotonous.

Chris Ballew: 39:37

Yeah, managing repetition is kind of tricky. The, you know, President we kept it pretty fresh in the President's we did have a setlist and everything but we were you know, in early days, especially we were open to whatever happened in the room, because it was smaller shows when you get up and stand up in front of you know, 50,000 people at a festival in Europe you can't be a muck about you got I like lined up the machine and deliver the songs. And then with Casper, I kept it fresh because I never made a setlist I would just go into the show and be like, what do you need right now it was a very, like, awesome experiment in being in the moment with the audience and with the kids. Like sometimes I do a show in the afternoon and a library and they're all tired. And so I you know, I'd mellow it out and do story songs. Sometimes they're like, you know, having a punk rock experience. And they want something, you know, up up tempo and high energy. So yeah, and then I add over the course of a show with Casper, I would be like, Okay, we've been a little too crazy. We're going to take it down and build it back up. And so that was kind of fun. That was a way to keep the monotony. And then I would take requests, because it was just me playing. So I had a I had a I never memorized the CASPER songs, I had a book. So that if I got a request for an obscure song, I could just go to it in the book and play it without any rehearsal. Yeah, cuz

Chuck Shute: 41:02

it'd be hard to memorize all those songs, like, it's a lot of catalog

Chris Ballew: 41:06

and a lot of them are repetitious. You know, like, each verse might start with the same phrase, and then go somewhere new. And I just was like, You know what, that's going to be a huge job. I'd rather spend my energy making more albums than memorizing songs. So yeah, it relieves a lot of pressure to I didn't have to worry about like with the presidents, I was always like, what if I, what if I blank out? What if I can't remember? And that happened on our last show in the first round. We did a show in January 98, at a huge theater, the Paramount Theater, and we're doing lump and I go verse, chorus, verse chorus, here's the solo part. And I'm walking around the stage, kicking the solo, and all of a sudden, I'm like, how does the third verse start? And I felt this heat like this our last show, am I going to fuck up our hit and our lash? And I walked up to the mic with no idea what the verse was open my mouth, and it came out. It was just like, must Oh, it was the weirdest feeling. So anyway, all that like pressures off if you, you know, have a book of songs.

Chuck Shute: 42:07

Yeah, no, that's nice. So now, are you going to do live shows as a solo artist now? Or?

Chris Ballew: 42:12

No, I don't think I am. I'm taking long. Yeah, I'm taking a long hiatus from being a performer. And you know, that experience at the Paramount I was talking about is just one of a kaleidoscope of sources of stress for playing live. There's, you know, what if I get sick before What if I get sick after there's the performative aspect with Castro anyway, of like, I'm there 45 minutes before the show signing at the merch table in 45 minutes after there's, it's a long arc of socializing, which, you know, I like but it's overwhelming. And I'm just giving myself a break, I'm giving myself a break from being that guy that our eyes are on and that's responsible for the room and I am enjoying the break. And when I stop enjoying the break, or there's a reason to get back on stage, I'll do it. But right now being in the mad scientist, who has a better system than two boom boxes and a monophonic synthesizer. It's very intoxicating to just be in the studio. So

Chuck Shute: 43:16

no, yeah, it's it sounds like you're having fun and like you said, if you had that, that the cash cow from the President's that's still and also Casper, all this stuff, you can do whatever you want, you have freedom, right? Yeah, I'm really

Chris Ballew: 43:27

trying to capitalize on that freedom and detach, you know, not feel a sense of attachment to myself as an entertainer. And to let new phases of my identity as a musician kind of come in to interview and accept them, you know, and right now it's about Yeah, it's about recording and giving them the songs away and kind of being of service I like, I think about the service aspect of music too, like providing joy, providing entertainment, providing something that families can use to, you know, aesthetically, unify with their kids. And right now, I'm trying to provide this like groovy internal experience. So yeah, it's, it's just and I don't know, it just feels good to, like, treat myself to a time where I'm not stressed about anything.

Chuck Shute: 44:14

Yeah, that sounds amazing. Now, but what about collaborating with other musicians? Because I mean, you're in the Seattle scene. Like a song on your new home solo satellite. The guitar work on that is that you're doing the soloing and stuff. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, cuz you you more of a bass guy or in president's right. Well, I've

Chris Ballew: 44:33

been a guitar guy. Yeah, more of a bass guy but playing a two string guitar. So kind of, you know, more like a flat picking guitar approach to bass kind. Yeah, I guess. But yeah, it's me doing everything. I thought about having a real drummer play on these things, or, you know, starting to involve guests because it may it broadens the scope of who's eyeballs around the work like oh, you know, Christina As Alex on this one, let's check it out. But, again, there's a little bit of stress in there because one of the things I learned during Casper is I really wasn't supposed to be in a band at all. Because I have this like when things are clicking for me, I have a very clear vision of what the songs sort of atmosphere should be. And if there's a loud guitar playing, or if there's too much drums, I just want to do what Nancy Wilson from heart calls a mute party. Like when I'm recording the song, I put everything on too much guitar, too much drums, too many things. And then I go back and say, Well, what can I get rid of? Okay, let's get rid of that synthesizer here. Let's get rid of that guitar. And then the sort of song really blossoms but you have all these variety of elements from the freedom of making a mess. And then you just kind of squeegee out the stuff that doesn't really support the song. And there it is. But doing that, when you have to tell a guitar player that their part is being erased, because it's not there. It's it gets tough. It gets like political, it gets personal. I can do it to myself, because I have a guitar and I just be like, well, the experience of working out that guitar part was an hour well spent, but it doesn't work in the song so erase. Okay, so yeah, I get to be ruthless with my own self,

Chuck Shute: 46:24

right? No, that's it. That's a good point. Yeah. You mentioned Nancy from heart or now. Are you still are you friends with Oh, no, because like Kim from Soundgarden play, he was like a big champion of your band at the beginning and played on your debut album. Are you still friends? All these people? Do you see them a lot in Seattle or?

Chris Ballew: 46:40

I don't see him a lot. I saw Kim when the MC five came through last like maybe two years ago. Because I'm friends with Wayne Kramer from DMC five from when the President's covered kick out the jams which sparked a whole friendship with him. That's cool. Yeah. And Kim was Kim played with them, I think sat in on a song or two and he was there. Anyway. So I see. I see them like sometimes there's like, you know, celebrate the 25th anniversary of nevermind, and we're all going to play songs from him. Then everybody's there. And we see each other but aside from that, not much I hang out with Pete drove a lot. The singer from the 90s he lives here on VASHAUN. He's like one of my closest friends.

Chuck Shute: 47:23

Right? Which fan was it? Was he just a solo artist or he's a solo

Chris Ballew: 47:26

artist. And then he was in a band called The thorns. Matthew sweet. Oh, yeah. Oh, I can't remember the third and I remember the thorns. Oops. Sorry, Pete, if you're watching this. But yeah, he's super close friend. But yeah, you and I run into people like that Nancy Wilson idea I got from Pete he, he knows her because of things. So yeah. If I start tallying up all the people of you know, notable people that I have crossed paths with, it's like, crazy.

Chuck Shute: 48:00

Francis Ford Coppola one's pretty cool. And then weird. Our coverage your song and you're friends with him now. Like there's a lot of cool ones.

Chris Ballew: 48:06

Yeah, I have friends. I stood next to Little Richard in an elevator like three times. There's a million of them hung out with Neil Finn and Australia from the split ends. Like, oh, and the drummer from Blue Oyster Cult. Albert Burchard, who wrote all the weirdest songs on their first couple records, was a fan of the President's and we were pen pals for a while. I mean, I almost killed Madonna's dog. It goes on. I had to apologize to Dick Clark. Stanwood ray from wall of voodoo was mean to me, Brian Eno told me to fuck off one time. And it

Chuck Shute: 48:44

just goes on. And these are these all sound like great stories.

Chris Ballew: 48:47

They're always right. You gotta buy the I gotta write the book and then you gotta buy the book.

Chuck Shute: 48:51

Okay, fair enough. Well, I'm not gonna write it, but we should. You should. That sounds like great stories.

Chris Ballew: 48:56

I can write a pamphlet.

Chuck Shute: 48:59

That's funny. You say that. I have a friend who wrote a book. And I was like, this is more like a pamphlet because it's like very short. And yeah, but that's funny. Okay, well, yeah, until then people can buy the new album again. It's called Soul unfolded. I love it. It's like it's like a journey and you say you don't do psychedelics but the people that do or if they want to smoke a joint it's legal here in Arizona. You know, people could do that. That might mean enhance the record, but otherwise, I just enjoyed it sober just driving down the road and it's relaxing. It's fun. Yeah, I'd

Chris Ballew: 49:28

like to make music as if I'm on drugs, but not

Chuck Shute: 49:32

that's a perfect description. Yeah, because it it's but I like that kind of psychedelic journey but without drugs like like I like just like thinking and reading books. You talked about when you were a kid watching some? I need to see this. The Carl Sagan series cosmos. Oh, yeah. Interesting.

Chris Ballew: 49:48

That that blue literally blew my mind to pieces. I was raised, you know, pretty religious. God like Yeah, same as me. Yeah. And then I watched that and I was like, Oh, this would make way more sense. Like yeah, and then of course Neil deGrasse Tyson redid the entire series and also amazing I need to rewatch that both of those actually for instance you

Chuck Shute: 50:11

you read I know you said you listen to the What's wrong what's his name rom das rom das

Chris Ballew: 50:16

ra da es es rom you

Chuck Shute: 50:18

listen to him. Do you read other books about that kind of like those subjects and things or

Chris Ballew: 50:22

I like fiction a lot with books. I just read the Time Traveler's Wife which I loved on HBO. Yeah, it's a show it's actually been a movie and a show. Anyway, I love time travel stuff. There's a suit couple books by this guy Jack Feeny that I reread called Time after time and time and again, just excellent. like time travel stuff. I'm currently not to be to rom das doubt, but I'm currently reading his biography which is like, jaw droppingly remarkable him and Tim Leary created the psychedelic revolution at Harvard back in the early 60s. And it's just the stories you talk about stories. Oh, my gosh, crazy plane crashes. And you know, psychedelic two week long psychedelic trips, and it's not ball. So yeah, I read I watch movies. I love movies. love a good movie. So I actually kind of went to film school I went to school to be a visual artist. Wasn't that inspired by the teachers ended up auditing a ton of film classes dating a filmmaker hanging out with the actors. So filmmaking is like I've seen filmmaking is the most heroic act. And the fact that a good film could be made seems almost impossible on the fact that an amazing great film could be made is miraculous, Stanley Kubrick. I mean, he's my love Kubrick.

Chuck Shute: 51:43

Yeah, it's so good. Yeah. I wish he would have made more. I guess that's my only thing. Like he should have been making it. You should have taught him how to be more creative to make two albums a year, like two movies a year I would have. Wouldn't you love 10 To Kubrick movies a year?

Chris Ballew: 51:57

Oh, please. Yeah. Or David Lynch. I mean, yeah, I love those those kinds of filmmakers that traffic in impressions that you digest, and maybe later when you go to sleep or you're meditating with me, then the real art that David Lynch especially is working with is the art of your memory of the movie. The art of you remind later, as you're kind of like putting pieces together. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 52:24

it's like I'm still trying to figure out last highway. What the fuck was that about? The guy's like, call me. I'm right there right now. Like that was so that guy's so weird.

Chris Ballew: 52:33

Yeah, yeah. It's incredible. You know, he's, he's a he's an amazing genius. It's really a gift to be lost in a movie. Like so many movies. I turn on. I'm like, ice. They introduced the characters. And I'm like, I see the three acts. So clearly. I'm just like, nope. Bert, you know? So I dig. I dig being lost in a movie. I just watched Paris, Texas again. That's a beautiful, beautiful Oh, yeah.

Chuck Shute: 52:59

Is that is that Coen Brothers?

Chris Ballew: 53:01

No, Paris, Texas is shoot who made pair structures? I should know that. It's Harry, Dean Stanton and Natasha Kinski. It came out in the mid 80s. Okay, yeah. So older

Chuck Shute: 53:13

about I can't remember. That was the one No, I think I did what rewatch that because we were going to Texas and I wanted to see I like to see the filming locations. So I like to watch the movies and then go to where they were filmed. I always find that,

Chris Ballew: 53:25

Oh, I do that on Google on Google Maps. Okay, being filmed somewhere. I'm like, I'm gonna try to find that corner, like in Manhattan, you know, like, so like, look, look for a number on an awning in the movie and then find it. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 53:39

no, that's fine. There's some cool stuff on in Seattle too. Well, I'll let you get back to making more music because you've got a lot of stuff to do. So like to end with a charity. Those are charity that you want to mention here at the end. That's something near and dear

Chris Ballew: 53:51

to your heart. There are two real quick ones. There's Pepes program for early parents support. It's an amazing organization that brings new parents together in geographical neighborhood areas to share fears and stresses about being new parents. Oh, never heard of that one. I love it. Oh, yeah, that organization was a huge inspiration for why I started making the CASPER baby pet stuff. And then Wellspring Family Services and here in Seattle is a organization that prevents you know, interim steps in when families are about to become homeless and helps them navigate through it and also counsels abusers in those situations who need to understand how they're tearing their families apart and Mary's Place unbelievable I know that's three I'm sorry to put all three in there yeah. Mary's Place in Seattle takes in homeless families and get back on their feet. So

Chuck Shute: 54:49

because your albums free so if people people are not going to buy your album you're almost free so then they have money left over to go to these charities.

Chris Ballew: 54:55

Pretend the album was $30 and get some dollars to peps, Wellspring Family Services. And Mary's Place

Chuck Shute: 55:01

perfect. I love it.

Chris Ballew: 55:02

Yeah go to Chris blue.org For the free all free music and on there I've got a ton of old obscure unreleased weird shit. Not the bad English accent stuff he's done it definitely gets close.

Chuck Shute: 55:15

All right, well, I will definitely I'm gonna listen to more your stuff and then I would love to see you live if you ever do perform again or if you come to Phoenix. I'm in Seattle a couple times a year. That's because my hometown so yeah, if there's a show, you should do something. I would love to see a show with like, like a bunch of you guys like Candlebox and green apple Quickstep and Pearl Jam. Let's all get together and just do a cool festival. for that.

Chris Ballew: 55:36

I remember actually getting super drunk with Dave Grohl back in the late 90s. And pitching him on that idea. Like let's do a rock and roll circus man. Yes. Dave has the power to do it. So come on, Dave.

Chuck Shute: 55:50

Yeah, okay. God. Wow, you got some great stories getting I don't know if he remembers that conversation

Chris Ballew: 55:55

either. But what were

Chuck Shute: 55:57

you guys drinking?

Chris Ballew: 55:58

Oh, vodka. It was a in, in Washington, DC. And we were here I was hanging out with after the show after the big festival. All these bands, no doubt played and I don't know Foo Fighters and us and French Schneider from the B 50. twos. So we're at the hotel getting drunk with Fred Schneider and Dave Grohl and a bunch of of Beagle and Dave rolls cousin kept buying me shots and just buying me shots. And I got I got really, really drunk. Like I walked the the lobby had a lagoon in it with a piano in the middle of it. And I just like Trent, I went through this three foot water to get to this piano and started playing the piano and security came. And I got back and then I'm like laughing and then I just like went right back out and did it again. Playing I don't remember just some blues, Saturday, Rafi stuff. And then I dumped an entire tray of drinks on the most important journalist in rock journalism at the time, Karen Glauber. And finally, somebody rescued me and took me to my hotel room and I had to fly home the next day to Seattle and that whole flight was just white knuckling is like don't barf. Don't Don't barf. Don't bark, just saying don't barf. 40,000 times well, they

Chuck Shute: 57:17

got the paper bags on there in case you do.

Chris Ballew: 57:19

I know. I know. I'm not really proud of that. But it's a it's a sort of hazy but vivid memory.

Chuck Shute: 57:26

You are you like Are you off the booze now too, though? Are you just dial it back a little or?

Chris Ballew: 57:32

Yeah, dial it back? Um, you know, my little system? I'm 57. So my little system is naturally saying, you know, chill out. Yeah, I don't really smoke pot or anything I have I maybe have a drink or two. couple of drinks four nights a week ish. That's my

Chuck Shute: 57:48

Do you like beer wine or like, because of sales got all the breweries and stuff.

Chris Ballew: 57:51

The I can't do I'm celiac, so I can't do that. Oh, which I found out after having all sorts of stomach cramps, which went away when I stopped eating the wheats. Now like vodka. It's clean. You know, it's the cleanest the least sugar, the cleanest of the alcohols just right on rocks. All right.

Chuck Shute: 58:12

Well, there you go. Well, thanks so much for making me thirsty here. It's only Tuesday shit. But a lot of fun. You had some great stories. We'll have to do this again. I guess we could do it twice a year since you're always going to be releasing stuff.

Chris Ballew: 58:25

I'd be happy to your very enjoyable interview or you've done your research which is very refreshing. I love it.

Chuck Shute: 58:33

I love to hear that from I hear that from a lot of people but like coming from you. That's a huge compliment because you're like a big star that's hanging out with Dave Grohl. So it's pretty cool.

Chris Ballew: 58:42

I don't think I could get Dave Grohl on the phone. I can get Chris himself on the phone, but I cannot get DAVE

Chuck Shute: 58:47

Oh yeah, I would love to get Chris Novoselic on the podcast. I bet he's got some good stories.

Chris Ballew: 58:51

Oh, yeah, he's a story machine for sure. He's a good man. He played on a casper song. He played on a Nirvana cover Casper song. Yeah. Oh. sliver. Grandma. Take me home.

Chuck Shute: 59:04

Oh, I love that. That's that's my favorite album is the insecticide.

Chris Ballew: 59:08

It's a great record. So Chris played bass on that night. It's so cool. I sold it up his bass of course when he sent it and Jack and Dino who made bleach when Nirvana engineered Chris recording his base for a casper baby fan song. So it's crazy connections. In fact, for a minute there when you went to the EMP in Seattle, there was this big network on the wall of like bands and their connections like all these lines. Yeah, Nirvana was kind of near the middle of it. And there was one little line going off. You know, lots of lines going off Nirvana and one little line going off to Casper baby pants.

Chuck Shute: 59:40

That is awesome. So silly. No, why does he not he took such a different like Dave Grohl did Foo Fighters and like him. He's a major player. And Chris kind of took like, he's like, I'm gonna kind of be more like he didn't he could have easily I'm sure joined a huge band or started a huge band. He seemed like he didn't really want to Take you want it out of the limelight? Is that right?

Chris Ballew: 1:00:02

Yeah, he lives in the middle of nowhere in South Eastern Washington. I've been to his house a couple times. And it's 10 acres, little goat farm, little chickens. You know, real, real rustic. His wife's a clothing designer. And she makes all his clothes and he just like, hangs out in his place. He got involved in local politics with his local Grange for a while but and he's had a few bands, you know? Yeah, not for sweet 75 They just first band after nirvana. And we opened up for the Foo Fighters that their second show, too. We were kind of the de facto now actor for a minute. And then he's doing a band now called giants in the trees, which is pretty cool. He plays accordion and bass. And there's a female singer and these grizzled little dudes from his county. Nowhere. But yeah, he just has he has realistic expectations about the scope of his life. You know, he's been through those guys have been went through such a, like intense wind tunnel of I don't know

Chuck Shute: 1:01:12

what a shitstorm is more like, yeah, probably crazy.

Chris Ballew: 1:01:16

There's a whole I mean, we, this thing could go on. But there's a whole story about the ghost of Kurt Cobain and me that I can't even start. We'll have to do this.

Chuck Shute: 1:01:30

Like a real ghost or just like,

Chris Ballew: 1:01:32

I gotta buy the book. I gotta write the pamphlet. I gotta write a series.

Chuck Shute: 1:01:38

Wow, this is amazing. Well, thank you so much for doing this. We'll have to do it again.

Chris Ballew: 1:01:41

Yes. All right, guys. Uh, yeah, the next record comes out July 15. It's called primitive God. So look out.

Chuck Shute: 1:01:48

All right. Well, make sure people follow you. You're on Instagram, or Twitter. I can't remember. I know.

Chris Ballew: 1:01:53

I'm kind of on Twitter. I don't really know. I'm an Instagram guy. I like I like being big, too.

Chuck Shute: 1:01:59

I like I want to just pictures that nobody can do their stupid rants unless they screenshot it, which I'm like, that should be illegal on Instagram. Yeah, come on now. All right. Thanks, Chris. All right. Take care. Thanks again to Chris blue. The new album is titled soul unfolded. Check it out. And make sure to follow Chris on Spotify or social media to get updates for all his new music, or just go to his website to check out all the stuff he's done. It's in the show notes. His disk discography on Wikipedia is really impressive. It'll tell you everything he's done. And we didn't even get into half of the stuff I forgot to ask him about subset which is the project he did with Sir Mix A Lot. And I definitely want to hear more about this Kurt Cobain's ghosts thing. So hopefully he'll come back on the show. Again, his websites in the show notes along with all his charities. My website is in the shownotes as well with all my social media and the old episodes. Whether you listen on Spotify or YouTube, check out some of my other interviews. I got some good ones with Seattle musicians from green apple, Quickstep Candlebox, and Melvin's Sweetwater. And if you're not familiar with those bands, well listen to my interviews and you'll learn all about them. Thanks for sticking with me. Have a great rest of your day and remember to shoot for the moon.