Episode #54 - Dave Fortman calls in for an in-depth interview about his time with Ugly Kid Joe as well as producing huge albums from Evanescence, Godsmack and Slipknot.
0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:42 - Welcome Dave!
0:03:06 - Dave’s Musical Background
0:05:35 - Sugartooth & Joey Castillo
0:08:05 - Ugly Kid Joe Connection
0:11:04 - Roger Lahr- Original Guitarist
0:13:33 - America’s Least Wanted Album
0:16:20 - Tour with Def Leppard
0:20:21 - Bon Jovi & Van Halen
0:27:10 - Hanging with Metallica
0:29:50 - Drummer Mark Davis
0:31:27 - Lost Hearing and Quitting Touring
0:33:15 - Menace To Sobriety Album
0:35:40 - Ugly Kid Joe Sound
0:40:50 - Ugly Kid Joe Break Up
0:41:30 - Transitioning in to a Producing Career
0:48:25 - Music Royalties - Streaming
0:51:40 - Future Producing Endeavors
0:52:33 - "Cryin' Like a Bitch" by Godsmack
0:54:23 - Motley Crue & Tommy Lee's Studio
0:56:20 - Ugly Kid Joe Reunion & Stairway To Hell
0:58:10 - New Album & Artwork, "Rad Wings Of Destiny"
1:02:43 - Producing for a Young Girl
1:05:15 - Zakk Wylde & The Fire Extinguishers
1:07:30 - Def Leppard, Mud, & Bottles,
1:09:58 - Fans
1:11:55 - Charity????
1:12:20 - Wrap Up
Dave Fortman Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/fortmandave/
Chuck Shute Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/chuck_shute/
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
Episode #54 - Dave Fortman calls in for an in-depth interview about his time with Ugly Kid Joe as well as producing huge albums from Evanescence, Godsmack and Slipknot.
0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:42 - Welcome Dave!
0:03:06 - Dave’s Musical Background
0:05:35 - Sugartooth & Joey Castillo
0:08:05 - Ugly Kid Joe Connection
0:11:04 - Roger Lahr- Original Guitarist
0:13:33 - America’s Least Wanted Album
0:16:20 - Tour with Def Leppard
0:20:21 - Bon Jovi & Van Halen
0:27:10 - Hanging with Metallica
0:29:50 - Drummer Mark Davis
0:31:27 - Lost Hearing and Quitting Touring
0:33:15 - Menace To Sobriety Album
0:35:40 - Ugly Kid Joe Sound
0:40:50 - Ugly Kid Joe Break Up
0:41:30 - Transitioning in to a Producing Career
0:48:25 - Music Royalties - Streaming
0:51:40 - Future Producing Endeavors
0:52:33 - "Cryin' Like a Bitch" by Godsmack
0:54:23 - Motley Crue & Tommy Lee's Studio
0:56:20 - Ugly Kid Joe Reunion & Stairway To Hell
0:58:10 - New Album & Artwork, "Rad Wings Of Destiny"
1:02:43 - Producing for a Young Girl
1:05:15 - Zakk Wylde & The Fire Extinguishers
1:07:30 - Def Leppard, Mud, & Bottles,
1:09:58 - Fans
1:11:55 - Charity????
1:12:20 - Wrap Up
Dave Fortman Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/fortmandave/
Chuck Shute Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/chuck_shute/
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
Welcome to the show, Chuck Shute podcast very excited. Today I have a great guest ugly kid Joe guitarist Dave Fortman. I mean, this was like a real treat for me because I was a huge ugly kid Joe fan. I don't know maybe I was the only person the only person that I knew that was a big fan of theirs but I love them. So dateformat was in a band called sugar tooth and I don't know if you remember if your kid from the 90s Beavis and Butthead they had a song on there called sold by Fortune after he quit the band, but he was recruited to join ugly kid Joe and like 92 and he stayed with them and they had two monster hits. I hate everything about you. And there of cats in the cradle. So he toured the world with like Def Leppard and Van Halen, and Bon Jovi and all these Ozzy Osborne. I mean, just all the biggest rock stars. Then the band broke up. So you think like, oh, his career is over. That's pretty good career, but he ended up going on to be this huge producer. He produced the album's for Godsmack, Slipknot, simple plan and the monster Evanescence album that was huge in the 90s. He's got some great stories, and even gives me a little bit of the dirt on the Godsmack song crying like a bitch on who that's about. So check it out. I think you'll really enjoy this episode.
Dave Fortman :Ah,
Chuck Shute :yes, we did it. I gotta give you a little shit, man. Aren't you like one of the best like top producers? Yeah, like Don't you have to know this technical shit for that?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, barely, not Jesus. You buy Holy Fuck.. CHUCK SHUTE
Chuck Shute :All right Dave Fortman... This is insane. I gotta show you this I know this is a before you join the band must have been like a month before he joined the band. But I was such a big ugly kid Joe fan and you guys, you guys are huge. You never came to Seattle to put you play you played like rock candy, which I think was 21 and over so I can never see you guys live but I bought this bootleg. We were
Dave Fortman :there with Def Leppard in the in the canyon outdoor concert Oh the gorge we missed it
Chuck Shute :I shot I want to see I want to see you guys headline But yeah, I bought this a bootleg. It's like from a it was must been right before he joined the band cuz he joined in April. But it was. It was so cool. I loved um, I loved your like banter, the banter between the band.
Dave Fortman :I joined April. Yeah, it was a month before I joined the band. Yeah, yep. Yep. There we go. We didn't, of course. Yeah.
Chuck Shute :But so this is this is cool. I'm kind of fanboy out. But so I don't know if you've ever listened my show, but I always like to get the background with musicians and I don't know. I know you're from Louisiana. But did you take music lessons? Like when did you start playing music? And did you take lessons? Are you self taught or?
Dave Fortman :Gotcha, good question. That's one of the things that no one ever really asked is how that's a great question that that gets left out a lot. I mean, I swear to God, like through every interview we've ever fucking done. But yeah, I mean, my whole family were musicians. My dad played from my brother, but both my brothers were three years apart. I'm the youngest. Um, you know, they they're my oldest brother, could you write all this up in the orchestra? They were all band guys. Really, when we grew up, we started reading music when I was really young for for drums, something like that. Four years old, four years old. Okay. Wow. When I started to understand quarter notes and eighth notes, my you know, my brother would teach me when I was little and then we all played multiple instruments as kids so early early on, you know, snare drum went into trumpet which went into guitar Then piano and so a little bit of piano wasn't really something I focused on that hard but that's how you that's how that kind of shit get started and so then my house you know we in Louisiana my mom raised us in a small little 1100 square foot little tiny house every bedroom was filled with somebody with a drum set and that month wow that's my mom how did you possibly survive it? She's like Well, I don't take a walk you know cuz after school we'd be jamming out man like Yeah, but different songs. One guy was up in there Wow. Yeah, you know I would sit there wait for you know Stairway to Heaven. Because we would be on vinyl and then I'd have a wait a Ludwig. Ludwig. Whatever the hell that drum set you know so I put on Stairway to Heaven. You have to wait for the to come around and I remember hitting it like it was revealed man when I was like 11 or 12 I beat that drum set.
Chuck Shute :So can you play out? Can you play every instrument you can you You sing you do guitar, bass and drums, keyboards everything.
Dave Fortman :Yeah enough. Yeah, I play some mean drums. People get surprised by that but it also helps me translate when I produce to be able to back my words up you know if I need to play it from I can play. Yeah, so usually I'm better at did rhythm style droving not so much like double kick metal stuff. Yeah, I know I can talk in general terms.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, you started doing you started producing stuff just right out of high school with a four track right. So I mean, that's where it all started. Yeah. And then you played in a band called sugar tooth. And that's how you kind of became friends with the guys and ugly kid Joe. Yep. Did you guys haven't released any music when you were I know they did that. sold my fortune song but that was after you left. Did you guys release any music when you were in the band?
Dave Fortman :Yes. All my fortune was that album that came out. Had I wrote the last song we mark wrote that last song. Okay. song on the record. Yeah, some of that was. I was there for co writing some of it. Not all of it. Other
Chuck Shute :band you played with Joey Castillo from us queens of the stones, son. Hmm, it's very cool to
Dave Fortman :me. That's interesting. Yeah, me and Joey, really were two guys that had been. I was, you know, I might be in Los Angeles Tim groups who was in sugar tooth was a friend of mine from Louisiana. So we hooked up, you know, and we would go watch Timmy play, um, in, in what was gonna become sugar too, that was called she died.
Unknown Speaker :And
Dave Fortman :lo and behold, you know, in there, they had a drummer guitar player that they kicked out when we can. And so the singer knew Joey from wasted youth from Los Angeles, and Timmy knew me so we came together to fill in one one time and it wasn't necessarily try our join, we were just going to jam with him. And you know, Joey came up to me said, Man I want I'd love to play with you, man. Because I really like the band. But, but, but I'll play just to play with you. And I said, I feel the same way. I said, I said me and you know, I think we can do this thing together. You know? Cuz I saw him play. He saw me play. We're like, fuck do we just take the town? We could do it right? That's awesome. So, at the time it was it was a burka Weber, Robert Weber, who was he became an a&r guy sign like disturbed in berceuse army connection really to everything, but he just wasn't the greatest singer in the world but great guy. You know, good networker. He got us in all the clubs. So the band that Joey didn't really like that much was really based on just they're not, you know, got a sloppy version of what churches would become, okay, ended up hiring mark, the singer who was Rabb market and became the reason we could get a deal because people watch me and Joey started to play and then when we go out and play shows, and it really starts shaking people up, you know, we were tearing it up in Hollywood, and the singer was really the reason we couldn't get a record deal. We had a few people come out and look at it. And in so then we went back and said, All right, we're gonna have to fire berko and we, I ended up having an idea to get marketer who was in this other band. It was a three piece that I love from Hollywood. As soon as he sat down and start singing, you know, it came and sat on the floor. So Jimmy now that became the sugar tooth they got a record deal with Geffen
Chuck Shute :and so how did you become you became friends with ugly kid Joe because they were fan of sugar too. I feel like I saw it with with a sugar two t shirt once.
Dave Fortman :Oh, well what it was was a sugar two shirt on in the video neighbor. Yeah, but
Chuck Shute :I thought we'd had one too like before you join it Yeah, what it
Dave Fortman :was was
Unknown Speaker :you know,
Dave Fortman :back when berko was singing in the band like that I mean that's how long have I met this as soon as we hit what happened is it Dennis writer who was became our manager we could Joe or was he was the lawyer fragment Kidjo at the time and he also picked us up as surely as she died as being our lawyer as well. So this is way before we were even about to get signed and when Jen should insurer tooth basically. We still had berko waiting class. We're at a dinner at his house one night and I met him so then we started just hanging out. We were friends like we were hanging every weekend and they were coming to see me play. I was Was that when
Chuck Shute :they were bigger was that before they had like they
Dave Fortman :were they were having made the EP
Chuck Shute :okay oh wow because that was a short time I found out that they started doing the demos and they made that EP they got signed like a month later is what Whitson
Dave Fortman :pretty quick You know? And no, they had they were in the process of getting ready to do and do all that stuff. You know they I was there like the first gig Cordell ever played you know when they hired Cordell. I saw that gig and I love it too. And so they were really they became really my best friends honestly in its course the time when they started taking off everything about you starting to boil. Um, in winter it always wet had been kind of torture and Roger on the road and he would always play the shirt or two demos on the bus. You know that first tour they ever had. And he wanted to give me an abandoned in and honestly I was so freaked out about ruining shoes record deal because we had a record deal for about a half million dollar deal back then was huge between Wow, it got capital and it definitely got a bidding war. Moreover, sugar two, so we were on the cusp of bout to sign the thing. And here I am trying to make this decision to jump ship into to get a dog myka Joe, as they were about to leave to become super famous, they weren't already. They were starting to hit, they had just gotten on MTV. And it was apparent that they were going to be a platinum man, you know. So, we did finally come and said, you know, and him and Dennis both were like, Hey, this is it, man. Like, you should join. You know, we're about to take off and do this thing, man. You know, we're gonna go and make a record. So I thought, and you know, what I figured out was that mark, the guy we hired to be the singer of shear tooth. Really? I forgot he was such a great guitar player. I'm like, wait a minute, and his usual show was our singing. And suddenly we just play the guitar again. And they could become a four piece band. Oh, no, I can do all my parts easily interpreted. You know, it would be more comfortable for him because that's what he's used to doing. Yeah. It was really to be able to sing and play guitar. So I came to practice at time and they often graduated me and you know, they knew that I was going to go Wouldn't be on MTV and shit.
Chuck Shute :So take it off so what happened with Roger because all I saw was that there was musical differences Did he? Did he want to do the band more metal or did they want to do more metal or what was
Dave Fortman :you know? There was never any kind of musical differences he was a real big writer. Yeah, it was just personality differences. Yeah, I mean he's just different kind of dude you know the guy that writes his names or names like those writing his name on the orders juices and shit in the fridge and I was drinking is you know,
Chuck Shute :like the odd couple that or something like that kind of
Dave Fortman :look back then. You know, there was the birth of like the new thing you know, everything was happening right then all the birth of grunge everything was brand new. So everybody was sort of you know, pool of, you know, we were I was free. I was really good friends with sharing whom, you know, when everybody's trying to figure out what this new thing was going to be when it exploded. Luckily, we got a little piece as well but it became Siao but LA is one of the premier first real grunge bands of La was us was sure to we were the sort of we were like the Seattle version band. Hmm.
Chuck Shute :Interesting. So yeah, so the the music scene was obviously changing. Did you have to additionally? Or did they just bring you angry?
Dave Fortman :When they became friends of me that I started to play guitar up there all the time? A lot of I think they were probably going to kick Roger out anyway. But one of the things that thing I think what really wanted to get me in the band, he could see when me and him were Blake best bros who would come up and play guitar and GML and sing my songs and stuff, right, you know, can't fire it and I listen to and then they would come see me play and we were one of those bands where we were you know, we were shocking live and we were wrapped. Now you'll pat myself on the back. We're at the time that was something really cool. Yeah. So that he that gets the sound of the way I play Lee, you know, we would always sit in the back of the bus and be telling whoever in the manual we had to get that sound, bro, you know, at least that's what I hear. So that was a lot of fun. Just demise you know and so he, you know, we're happy. Come all the way up Thomas dope and start pre production with him and then Roger didn't even know he picked up. He opened up the garage door one day and I was like, Oh, Jesus, and he's like,
Unknown Speaker :they do love you like, Oh fuck.
Chuck Shute :Oh, they didn't tell him that he was kicked out.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, they he knew he was out. He did it. He was wondering who they were gonna hire. Because he can tell it was coming Really? To me it would be broken down every weekend. Okay. He'd be around Roger beer rather.
Chuck Shute :So yeah, so you made that. I mean, obviously the EP was doing really well and then you join you did you so you did some of the shows before you guys went into pre production for America's least wanted or
Dave Fortman :now we went right into pre Pro. We went right in right and did some pre pro about a week and we were right in the studio.
Chuck Shute :Is it true that you guys kind of rushed the production because you wanted to get on tour with Ozzy, like I heard wit how to actually fly back to do some vocal changes because finished up
Dave Fortman :we were we'd already gone out on the road. When we finished the album there was some things had to be patched up or listened to mixes on tour. But what a rush for me because I first joined the band it actually we played the first MTV Video Music I'm sorry. Movie Awards movie was the first time I played with the band. I played in front of 200 million robot viewers on television before I ever got to blue state. That was really frightening. I bet Yeah. So then that laughs I was like, wow.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, well, no. So then the album's released and I remember I bought the I bought it like right when it came out. So it's got the Statue of Liberty like given the finger, but then they edited that cover and they made then you guys had to change it and you put the mascot in the bandages and stuff to that piss you guys off.
Dave Fortman :Oh, yeah. I don't know what the edited version went where where did that go? I don't remember that at all. I don't know.
Chuck Shute :I just remember that the the cover art was the they had The kid with the Statue of Liberty flipping the bird and then they they instead of like just having tape over it or a sticker, I felt like they they had the ugly kid Joe mascot was all bandaged up. Did you never saw that cover version?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, I saw that. I can't remember why these is too long ago now, but I don't wear these when I went out sold the Platinum records with the original artwork, though for sure.
Chuck Shute :Okay, yeah, maybe. Maybe there was
Dave Fortman :two versions? Yeah, those were censored version of it. Yeah, there was an album by that had that.
Chuck Shute :Okay. Yeah, maybe some of the words that were out of taking out the songs too. That's exactly what it was. Do they even still do that now with albums? They do a censored version? I guess they probably do. Hmm.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, I have. I have you make clean versions no matter what. How do
Chuck Shute :you how do you do the clean version? Do you have to resync it or can they just enter in a word?
Dave Fortman :Sometimes? It depends. We've got a million ways. If I produce them, we'll go in and either put the white noise like in that spot. Okay. Kill it all together, where you make the word backwards. You haven't seen a different word. Okay? You know, gotcha. You just don't like that word or you do it while you're on it because you know it's common. Yeah. Someone's got a motherfucker the song. Can you figure out some way to fix it? Yeah.
Chuck Shute :That's cool. So yeah, so then you guys your tour you were like the opening band for a lot of big name. And like you said, you tuned with Def Leppard sounds like there's a lot of like, stuff happening behind the scenes with that tour. Oh, we were
Dave Fortman :opening we were like the machines of the opening. Your biggest headlines thing was only people people generally have imagined us being a library really where you live, or I think our largest headline was right around 44,000 or something in America ever. Oh, but yeah, we went on these giant tours in the devil everyone you know, in particular was fucking radical. It was so such a long tour. I mean, we've toured like four months with those guys, so 79 shows robot. Yeah. Incredible run, man. So They I haven't played on stage with them seven times. because me and Phil were messing around backstage because it was a really lengthy two or three days off and so a lot of time to noodle around. And I started playing slide guitar I was practicing on lap feel like a little lap slide I hadn't. And we started playing two steps behind me and in the job market one day was like on stage Do you know not that provision? manage it? It laughs Do you know better clean up right where you split normally like a slide? Sure. It was a scary bucket moment for me. But it was it was cool. It was probably the what is the pinnacle of all live performance things for me. It's the biggest moment I've ever been on a stage
Chuck Shute :playing with actually with Def Leppard not just open left Def Leppard
Dave Fortman :in a song. And you know, I gotta give a Greg Manor a good friend of ours filmed all but there's probably doing it. I'd love to have it, you know? Oh, yeah. Something should be live on youtube forever. Just like everything else, you know? Oh,
Chuck Shute :definitely. Somebody got that somewhere. Yeah. So yeah. So what's Was Def Leppard at this point in their career. Had they kind of like, settled down there kind of party lifestyle, or are they still going pretty great because you guys were like the young you know, your band that was just, you know, you were definitely not settled down your party lifestyle at that point.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, no, they were pretty. I mean, they're like, they're just one of them. dudes are just classic guys. You know, they're the nicest people I've ever met. You know, they're a lot more humbling than you would imagine. You know, Joe, it's pretty for all accounts I could ever find him as an anti Rockstar guy, man. It's, you know, real hump, like, critical of himself all the time. hated his own voice, you know, all the stories, you know, he's telling me stories about how he written pour some sugar on me because he was just he said I would home shit. You know, they were sitting over by road kids have a chip and the one of the roadies walked by and said, What the fuck did you say me? Like pour some sugar on me and he's like, that'll work.
Chuck Shute :Wow, that's cool.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, he like you say you beat him to death. Just Man we're like, but as party animals Yeah, they were. Yeah, it wasn't like they were they got raging but they had they're pretty wild types of that, you know, they were rock and roll still for sure. You know, they didn't get they would drink and you know they were funny and you know, they weren't what Motley Crue level out of control but it was a rat. It was just a rad time and it was just such an easy Summer Tour. You know? Yeah. show up at four o'clock imagine you know, you do an American shift. You know, you got it's summer you show up for soundcheck? You don't even have to be on stage till 745 and then you get off at like 820 or something. Or probably earlier now you get off at like 745 to like what would it be like 830 Okay, really 45 minutes that man done out all your best songs, and you can just go and then you have all night to party. You have to be there for the next day. It doesn't mean it was the easiest schedule and it wasn't every single day like they would have days off in that So, in dawn it was catered every town would have their own food they would bring like whatever they think like this, you know, Kansas barbecue. Somebody You know, it was it was out of control.
Chuck Shute :That sounds amazing. That
Dave Fortman :tour was a lot like that. But that was the real. The most insane fan kind of moment was when we toured with Bon Jovi.
Chuck Shute :Oh, really even more so than Van Halen.
Dave Fortman :No, that's good too. Yeah, Van Halen was they were the warm up band for Bon Jovi. So where we were before Van Halen, and that I mean, I just you know, can never I still can't believe we actually did that. You know, I'm sitting there eating lunch with Eddie Van Halen two or three times in the tent just meet him alone. So does that backstage with him and him and Alex? Yeah, so Teach me drone rudiments. Didn't you? I heard you say like, leaving Main Street his underwear.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, he was playing between his underwear says that ruin the fantasy a little bit or is that like just taking it to the next level?
Dave Fortman :Like me just so cool. Wrapped if they were still researchers, they were so California man they were they were just really,
Unknown Speaker :they were
Dave Fortman :they were just so California like they're once again just really just regular dudes that you would never imagine like that they could be that that normal just because that's what they've been doing the whole time they don't really see the things around them happening so I mean they're just being that guy you know there's like, Dude that's awesome. Yeah, but I mean hundred percent like I guess you could call it dude bros in a way like like Michael Anthony like soon as when meetings Oh, yeah dude. Okay movie works you guys man my thing my cousin sold him his trans-am he you know it's just
Chuck Shute :random just down to earth regular guys
Dave Fortman :like Pasadena, California dudes man like in and shooting they loved us because we had we were touring Europe and they nobody, believe it or not, didn't no one knew the Van Halen hits that we all know in America so well really in Europe. The only Hit they really had was jump and they weren't playing in the set. So the record company had to come to Van Halen say Hey, you guys should really be playing jump man because it's the only real song you got that people can love because we like we were on the side of the stage every night right? So we're sitting there watching yeah fuck it was 60,000 to 80,000 people in the stadium so we're watching like they're playing like fucking you know ain't talking about love man or like brilliantly got me and this is no one responding just like
Chuck Shute :but they came to the show. Why did they come to the show? I don't know the songs just
Dave Fortman :well they know they were there to see Bon Jovi.
Chuck Shute :Oh cuz it's Bon Jovi Van Halen. And you guys
Dave Fortman :yeah, it was a three of us. Yeah.
Chuck Shute :Holy shit. That would be amazing show.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, for four parts of that tour wasn't infinium was in on about 13 or 14 shows of it. Okay, there was another one up in Thunder or somebody that was also right in the middle. We were there with Bon Jovi almost the whole time.
Chuck Shute :What's Bon Jovi? Like?
Dave Fortman :Somebody was in the middle? Yeah, but yeah, that's how that's how it was Bon Jovi that got them to be the warm up man in the middle for whatever 1314 shows that was that changed my life, man? Yeah, those guys and then so eventually they started playing jump and then they got a crowd response out of it. You know, and we were talking about it it's like Yeah, dude, say party was over here, bro. We just didn't get invited. Like well fuck it. You know you took over American man Yeah,
Chuck Shute :so does Jon Bon Jovi pretty cool guy to get to hang out with him at all?
Dave Fortman :Oh god yeah well we you know we had known him from earlier we're saying label that's reason where
Chuck Shute :the whole thing is he called me Graham I think right or mercury and we're
Dave Fortman :all both on Mercury Records right and just the sweetest guy we got to meet him because we played with him in Australia at the Australian Grammys back in 92 I think it was went down there and he's that dude he's just about as nice as a man can be. I mean, that's what he did. Part of the success is just his ability to remain absolutely lovely at all times to really cool dude. You know, he back then they have Gil camcorders are like a big thing you know, so he brought Like all five camcorders in his arms to our hotel rooms that we brought him he gave us gave us camcorders personally to go film shows and have fun with
Chuck Shute :that kind of guy Where is those? Where's the footage of this to kind of find this online?
Dave Fortman :Nobody ever fucking did anything
Chuck Shute :shit that would have been cool because there's so much high jinks with your band like
Dave Fortman :I wish it was football oh shit there's not though really back in those days but it wasn't a big deal to try to document all of it you know right but in the dash where the fucking night but there's bars on the stage right yes on its own if you heard the other podcasts I did you listen I did.
Chuck Shute :Yeah. Oh yeah. I was on the edge of my seat. I love your stories are great.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, some great stories. And it's that night man me cos there's bars on stage you know that fucking little hills five or six stools in a bar in somebody's back. There's like
Chuck Shute :on the side stage, right?
Dave Fortman :Like if you were looking like I'm the stage Well here are two bars like their bars behind the And there's the drones in my head is there's yars right here. That's
Chuck Shute :badass
Dave Fortman :people hanging out man so it looks like it got these giant fucking blow up things that are about 100 feet tall. They're huge. Fucking 75 200 foot tall blow up things big old characters hanging out you know? And so we would become part of the bar and they will get people fans to sit at the bar like VIPs so it looks like this cool seat on stage this this man Jacks two bars at it man with lights shit. It's so me and clauser sitting there let's do it. JOHN came up in what was it not living on a prayer? What's the other one?
Chuck Shute :shot to the heart? Bad medicine.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, one of those. Yeah, I forgot what song it was. Now I might have gotten it wrong on the podcast, but he goes up might have delivered it was a little bit pretty classy. Let him take a shot at the fucking lead vocal on the on the microphone on John's mic and Klaus belted it out. This was for an awful fucking laugh so hard in the next day. We're sitting in the same shoe store. It comes up like he's gonna do it again. He's on a decline. I get mad. Every time he and I bring that up, we just start laughing like holy fuck that really happened.
Chuck Shute :So because Klaus doesn't do backup vocals for you guys or anything or
Dave Fortman :he yells and whatnot it you know he can hold of. He goes, yo, Mr. Record, man, he said, Well, that's it, man. It's a fun time. When he does that. He really pulls it off. Well, yeah, like that's not. He's not he doesn't come up and start actually singing any kind of like, harmonies, right,
Chuck Shute :right? Yeah, no, that's hard. So you guys, you guys are on the top at the top of the world. You won. I don't know if you want a lot of other awards. But I know you won. The best, I think was the best new band and metal edge which I was a big metal edge guy if you read that magazine at all, or did you care for sure?
Dave Fortman :Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. I forgot
Unknown Speaker :all
Dave Fortman :but forgotten the award the awards that kids ever won. But that's cool. We did at some point when something metal is right. Yeah, that's cool.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, I mean, you got to tour with all your heroes and Metallica or you didn't tour with Metallica. But you hung out with them before, right?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, a couple times. Um, it all started when Kurt was dating. This chick, Sarah, that had grew up saying wound up with caution with that was the neighborhood friends, whatever. And so, we just went partying I think one time in San Francisco, we played a show, I think Kirk came and we went out and hung out with him and Sarah, and then later got asked to go hang in Paris, which was rad. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. The shows and sayings is when the Black Album are huge, man. No, they were badass. And so then we go into a big club in Paris packed out with 1000 people. They have a roped off area where you party and we're literally sitting there, raging and wit passed out. Kurt drew a fucking cross. Sure.
Unknown Speaker :Top to bottom all the way across
Dave Fortman :and he just went It sat there for hours passed out. You know, it was hilarious, man. I've never seen people like I haven't that's the only time I've ever really been around. Super Rockstar them when they're partying and there's people looking at you like, like you're partying with some guy just staring at you. You're really just looking at it. Yeah, he's like 10 feet away the rope over there. We're sitting there drinking and laughing and these people just stare at us.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, cuz it's like you're famous rock stars. That's really cool.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, that's how Metallica lives man. We just had sushi with Robin kirkney and without sushi with him witnessing real well with place in the wedding band you know with him. Oh, really? Yeah, he played a wit to the band with Robin Kurt and Joey just to played a couple shows with them now. Believe it or not full circle and that crazy? Wow,
Chuck Shute :that is crazy. Yeah, they played they would
Dave Fortman :really play a wedding for us. Kelly Slater's friend or something in Hawaii. is Kurt civic surfer. So it became a thing so now they made it called the wedding band. They jam together with sings Wow. To the guy topper in that band yeah so crazy. Just the funniest I mean, the kurtsan the funniest people you ever meet God he had me dying to see Amsterdam last year. We were at we ate at the hotel where they're at you know in sushi and then they call us we eat again the next night. The sushi restaurant. And the shift is how the stories man you know in Kirk's tough my hell when they tour with Angus Young and AC DC the A's didn't even meet any didn't talk to anybody in Metallica. He just would sit and change smoke without drinking with his bodyguard. He would didn't say fucking word any of them never met him. You know, that's how private and weird those dudes word. Wow. He goes.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, no, I've seen him why he's tiny, amazing guitar player. It was so
Dave Fortman :fucking funny. So
Chuck Shute :yeah, back going back to your history there. So then your drummer Mark Davis, he leaves and he's replaced by Shannon, who's a current drummer in Godsmack. But I was always curious about this because Mark said that he wanted to step away from the limelight. That's always like shocking to me because I do these interviews. And I interviewed these people that I'm like, how did you get to this level of success? And so Mark was there and then he's just like, no, this isn't for me.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, he, you know, he was a little older than all of us were, um, and he really, you know, he had fallen in love with carians, cars, wife, rail, whatever. And so, yeah, at some point, he just wasn't feeling it. I think he might be more you want to be open to, I'm sure he was some pressure going from very, he went to the family life big time. He sure what he did was, she became an accountant in he was Mr. Mom for decades. You know, he raised those children. So Wow, he went big time on it big time, dad, which, you know, I got to commend him on that, you know, I'm a father as well. But he was early on man, he turned 30. And he went after that kind of life. And you know, then that was it. We found Shannon moved to the next step, you know, wow, that's
Chuck Shute :that's kind of like admirable, I guess. I mean, it's kinda takes balls to step away from that, too. It's pretty cool. I mean, if that's what you really want, but yeah, it was good. It was your guys's game or Shannon's game because he got to join the band. And then I mean it was like you guys didn't
Dave Fortman :So...I think it just comes to different personalities, some people The road is really brutal on me and I just say, there's certain types of people that are better when they just want to be in a in a kind of repetitive daily situation, like right now my life...I just quit touring as well because it's discovered I have my hearing test done and I've lost just a pinch on my right ear. And it's definitely because of the drum set up tour for the last three years. I haven't done that since I started producing... So I've noticed a little bit of difference. I don't want to lose any more. You know, it also I want to quit while I'm ahead.
Chuck Shute :So you will never do shows again?
Dave Fortman :earplugs, you know, So you'll never do shows again? I'm not going to do a tour again, no.
Chuck Shute :Oh wow. So would Ugly Kid Joe tour...
Dave Fortman :Fun but it's not that fun...Yeah, because in the end what you really want to....I'm loving to Florida and retire down here... Shannon lives here in the same town now. And I'm putting a fucking little SSL in my condo in my room right here I'm sitting will be like a desk. And the thing I really love to do is that, you know, even if I'm not doing it for a record or something else, I still, I've always loved audio with Mike when I was in high school, I'm still doing the same thing I did back then on a four track just in a larger scale. And so I don't want to lose the ability to enjoy that, you know, to understand the beauty of music and hear things the way I hear them to be able to say, Wow, that is incredible, you know, and they start losing here and they'll seem to go away. Destination is Yeah,
Chuck Shute :you can't wear like a earplugs or something to protect?
Dave Fortman :No..it takes all the fun out of it...You got to feel it like we're live monitor kind of guys, man. I can't. I can't play with it feel like I'm deaf and I can understand what's going on. We play off of cues, we're interactive, funny kind of band and earplugs won't work at all. There's no way Whit will say something subtle that I need to cue ooff of, and I won't hear it or I will can't feel the energy of the show. I'm not about that at all. Oh, shit. It's too much. You know. That's sad. It was fun in two, three years of it. Yeah. Because I never even put five years before I jumped back in anyway. Right? Yeah.
Chuck Shute :Well, so then you guys when you recorded Menace to Sobriety you you took the mascot off the album cover was that? Was that a conscious decision to do that? Like, what was the theory? Because I love the mascot. I love the Ugly Kid Joe cartoon. I thought that was like part of the appeal. And for me, you don't
Dave Fortman :You know, I never thought about that. Wow. I don't know. I'm not sure what. I can't remember back then. I think we're so she's like crazy. We just saw this kid drinking a postcard and decided that'll be the album cover. I don't think no one ever I don't think anyone ever said oh, we're getting rid of the kid you guys. Yeah, nobody ever only anyone ever made that phone. I've never thought of that. Like we were killing the kid that people love.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, I love it. I mean, and then like,
Dave Fortman :We were so dinghy back then we're just all oh my god that rules as a kid drinking a beer is the journey some postcard. And then we made that the album cover and it was that easy like, wow, that's kind of cool. I don't think anyone said wait, maybe we don't have to get back on.
Chuck Shute :Did you guys have a manager back then? Hmm. Did you have a manager or anything like that? or? Yeah, it was. Okay. So he was just like, yeah, that's cool. Whatever, whatever you guys
Dave Fortman :ever thought about that?
Chuck Shute :So yeah, that album is interesting too. Because like, I wouldn't really listen to it today. And it you know, I have a different appreciation for it now. And it was the same thing like with the song that you wrote on America's least wanted busy be. I think at the time when I first heard that song. I was like, I was like a slow song, you know, but now I listened to it. I go, that's actually like a really good song. And this is like, whatever. 3030 years later, almost, I mean, that song. still holds the test of time.
Dave Fortman :Oh, yeah, now my stuff Yeah, it's one of the reasons I want to get back on tour you know whit told me he's like man, you know your songs definitely stood out. We're playing a half for up and set now. So you should see you should come check it out and play it again and coming, you know, get the rewards of what you've done. Yeah. and administer sobriety a lot of people said that either the base layer which bins or the base fare from faith, the more he told where he goes, Yeah, history will judge you guys differently. After he listened to those sobriety. He was like, Okay, well there that's a different man than I thought. There are some moments where it is you know, timeless rock happening and he goes best to get that although Yeah,
Chuck Shute :well that's what's interesting, because it was kinda like you're saying earlier like, this whole grunge thing was happening. And you guys were kind of metal you weren't what is the what is the line from? We ain't glam and we ain't thrash like but you weren't you weren't glam. You weren't really thrash. You're kind of metal but then you go like stuff like busy being you got like some funky songs. So like how would you describe your sound?
Dave Fortman :We were I would say at that point in time, we were like a rhythmic metal rock. They were to see metal was like metal and glam. Yeah, and then but metal rock was all it is still is to this day. It's, you know, it's rock and roll with metal influences, you know, so we were obviously all from the same school of Van Halen, Ozzy, you know, Judas Priest in and all those things like that. And those things aren't the glammy kind of squeezy metal those those things are rock and roll a lot of those albums man you listen to pre so there's a lot of rock and roll happening you know, I'm a big scattered fan and obviously you can hear that I sound like Alvin Collins when I play um, those influences created what I would say is a kind of early on a definite folk thing you know with with those guys were they that was with him writing But Mrs. Riley was probably you know, 40 50% of me. So that style really mean was our to me, which is like rock and roll, kind of funky could they? I mean, can't you see them is really one of the definitive things I've ever written that just tears a fucking audience in half. You know, people love that. And yeah, kind of a funky. It's like Aerosmith, chili peppers. Really?
Chuck Shute :Yeah, no, there's like definitely a lot different sounds coming in. But I heard you say on that and it was on the other podcast you were saying that a lot of guys didn't like you that you tried to you guys tried to go see the Black Crowes and Chris Robinson was like, No,
Dave Fortman :it was the fucking disaster, man. Why no one just standard. You know that? Well, because we were still a little you know, which voice was a pinch of that metal kind of Vince Neil thing. Yeah. Which now came back around where that's something that people don't, don't bomb out on at all, but they bought it back then we were still considered to be that. Oh, here's this little bit of cheese metal in the span. Except for they're funny and they're funky Lulu so there was kind of sound. And so that was something that when grunge was coming out, was easy to hate. And they did they no one no one wanted to deal with it. You know? It's A lot of people that were writing articles about it, you know, and things would would get torn apart, man and just be no one to understand how we're selling million records but we're we're, you know, and yeah the guy remember Paul, what seems a famous English writer once said, you know, um, it's your fault readers that these people are famous because find the record, you're not telling anybody you stop keeping secrets.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, well in some so some of the people that were fans were dimebag and Vinny from Pantera like you guys hooting the blowfish, the guitarist like you. Poison was a fan of you guys. So I mean, you
Dave Fortman :had a pretty good range of people, though. See, they were early on. Yeah, got it. You know, up until the point when you become friends with Scotty in and we know we played with anthrax and diamond Vinny, were at that show. So they got to know the view of what we're all about. And then when it was all because of Shannon they knew Shannon from way back Shannon was friends with Panthera from Russia. Sorry rap song America. Okay. That will that's what you know, when they would see something live well then you get to hear all these songs that nobody's heard before. Yeah, like everything about you, you know, they're more serious rock and metal and you get to hear which showcases voicemails Shannon, the talents spectrum across the board. People didn't understand that that's what's inside that band you got this guy that can lead an audience and sing his balls off but then he's backed up now with Shannon by fucking world class players all around. I mean, Cordell is probably still the best foot bass players I've ever used in a session as a producer I mean even he's that good The guys are fucking he played the BB King you know we get to do a session or something whether it was like 12 this motherfucker can play the bass man so when you have a drum in a rhythm section that good in there, it's so locked in that when you know that goes in a live concert that show Yeah, everything. And then now you got two guitar players. Both can play actual leaves that aren't over the top, choose your nut but their melodic kind of leaves any other singer that's fucking killing it nailing it every time he sings it. When you put that together. I don't care who you are. As long as you're not seeing something over the top ridiculous in the worst song ever heard. That's an impressive thing to see live so yeah, kind of got reintroduced to us everyone ever did ever saw us live did really, from the moment that we got here. You know, I hope
Chuck Shute :I can see you guys live Sunday. I still never been able to see you guys live. I want to see
Dave Fortman :if you can look it up. If you look at Can't you see them live at Rock am Ring 1995 and I'll tell you exactly what it's all about. You know? Yeah, that's bad, man. I mean, that's terrible. Now there's all kinds of that's one of the videos from back in 95 that shows you Shannon's ability in hemming Cordell when the breakdown happens. I mean, that band was tearing it right. You know, we were badass back then.
Chuck Shute :So what happened?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, festival band was dangerous, you know?
Chuck Shute :Yeah. So what happened with the end? Was it just you guys got burned out and around 97 when you first broke up?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, um, it became those things It's just been so long and in the album wasn't doing good we you know in the clubs it was what made people come out see us anymore in clubs in America. So it was Klaus didn't want to do it anymore. So him being the mediator, he was kind of the glue between us all, you know, the most diplomatic even keel dude the band. Yeah, so you take him out of the equation, we're all looking at each other like fuck that, you know, I'm not gonna be in a band.
Chuck Shute :So this is amazing. I didn't know this when I looked you up to reach out just because I just wanted to interview because I get Joe. I didn't even know you did this whole other producing career that's like amazing, you see moved to Louisiana. And you started just producing some local stuff. And then wind up records actually offered you a job as a vice president and you turned it down. And then but then they they had this other band. It was like this three piece they gave you some demos. And they were Southern people and it was like operetta and was originally a Christian band, but it turned out that that was Evanescence and you This monster album that went crazy.
Dave Fortman :change everything. It really did. Yeah, that insanely changed my life overnight. It really did you feel like you kind of got up to that? Yeah, I was happy I had four or five national releases with Phil Anselmo and with the crowbar all the Nola bands. But until 12 stones walked in the door and they got to deal with lineup, which allowed me to co produce and Jay Baumgardner in that's how I got in the door with Linda. Up until that moment. I mean, it was really about just surviving trying to make some cash, pay bills and whatnot for the kids. But then Evanescence and then that really got me into into the world of like, where people now really want to hire you to do things, you know. And so then that led Of course, next thing after that was mudvayne. I got to do that build record with happy on it on the other big ones and then it's from that I got Slipknot, although it was gone differently early Godsmack you know, try three different release, boom, you know, so right in a short time Being on time I put three of the four of the biggest bands in metal, you know made my Evanescence probably the biggest song pop wise that I'll ever do. But the biggest record the most important thing I've ever done is without a doubt all hope is gone. Slipknot because they're number two in the world under Metallica. I don't think they're going anywhere as far as title. And can't say that about any other band that I've worked with. Yeah, Slipknot is the second largest metal band in the world underneath Metallica.
Chuck Shute :I didn't know I didn't know they were that big worldwide it's interesting like you told me Van Halen doesn't have hits in Europe that's like so I it's always interesting to hear because you travel the world. So you know a lot more about how the rest of the parts of the world view other bands. So,
Dave Fortman :right. So well back in the day, you know, the market. They were concentrating on America Van Halen was the slipknot fills up 30,000 people and shares worldwide and this is everywhere. You know this that I was massive that I did worldwide. That's insane. I mean the amount of money Like their their popularity their fame level is so huge I mean their number two to Metallica is not even not even a close second. I know well,
Chuck Shute :yeah and you said Cory Taylor was he was even better than Amy Lee in the studio like you don't have to like three takes you know like I guess that's I don't know why we're gonna do any more takes that was pretty much
Unknown Speaker :it you know
Dave Fortman :it was such a weird thing to do because it was like you want to fucking change something so you don't think so the guy didn't think you're a fucking hack you know like I was sitting there going like God should I just change things just so he doesn't think I'm not doing anything right and I kept thinking I don't want to do anything to because I know I got it it's right there I just started just heard the future you know I hear it there it is but you know I got it so do I go fuck with it and then all of a sudden did his mentality changes I lose what I just had and he doesn't want to go back to what I just you know, he could Yeah, shit show. If you've already got something it's best to leave it the fuck alone You know, right if you know in your heart like I My heart when he when he had done a few of those songs I'm like, okay, that shows fucking rad
Chuck Shute :so it's different it's different depending on the band you're working with because I think early you were saying that's one of the bands that nicknamed you the butcher because you had cut so many pieces of different things that you had done so many things so with other bands if they're really high level you don't have to do as much
Dave Fortman :well arrangement wise we seems like we always arrange things you know me and Cory cut down some songs we even do things on the spot
Unknown Speaker :boom a
Dave Fortman :little bit less arrangement for sure for slipped out a lot of it with mudvayne Godsmack a little bit less. It was some things we would do but always kind of join Evanescence a bunch we would we would go and make arrangements out of what they had tried to make them better and it worked Bring me to life enough if you know arrangements like the the mid the brands, you know, when it finally gets into the first premium life bridge section, before frozen in time, there's two different eight bar sections right? Well, the first one of those was always after every chorus and I hated that. I was like, man, it sounds like you Going through a bridge every quarter. So we took that out of the first chorus in the second course and you go into it make it into a bridge. And so the whole outro I changed a bunch on that. That's probably the most important original work I've ever done that got me
Chuck Shute :to where I'm at. And you didn't think that that was the kind of you didn't know you thought oh, maybe this will be fun for my music nerd friends, but you didn't think it was gonna be popular at the time?
Dave Fortman :I didn't think it would go Yeah, no, did I miss Really? You never with a new band? You no one's No way. You gotta be nice to be thinking you know, anywhere near what we did. Like you think it's You're thinking too far ahead of you. Anybody since into the studio Go man, we're gonna fucking sell 17 million but there's no way even in those times.
Chuck Shute :Yeah. So is it kind of like a numbers game? Like you just want to do as many albums as you can and then hope one of them blows up.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, well, in the moment when you're coming up, you know, like I was a producer. You just want to work in the industry at all. Yeah. To be a part of something of assigned a label was huge for me. I'm like, Whoa, this is actually a record that's going to come out you know? Yeah, even fail or not not fail. At least I'm making, you know 30 grand or something to do it. It was just huge for me, but I'm like, wow, y'all dude, never from you know, middle class family Louisiana my whole life. I never had any money. And so to see that, even though we had Joe, we didn't make shitloads cash like you would think like a rock star cash thing, you know? And so in this moment, I'm like, getting to do things I really love to do for 2030 Grand i was like, Man, this is I feel like what really made it now you know,
Chuck Shute :and you get royalties to right?
Dave Fortman :Oh, yeah, fuck yeah. Well, there's that's Yeah. How I've continued on Yes. are retired, whatever. Yeah, I took I took a buyout on royalties to do this to sit in Florida and just chill. Yeah, you
Chuck Shute :sold some of the Godsmack album or something to have you sold some of the Godsmack album royalties, right?
Dave Fortman :No, I sold off. 30 years of Evanescence is 2000. Not all of my kids will get back three years I kept the Godsmack and mundane. Other side royalties. Okay. Taxes. I was a fucking party animal for a good decade. So I fell in a rut. Yes, well back, then I'm all better now.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, you were saying I heard you saying that you took a break from booze. And then you kind of had this like moment of clarity. You're like, Oh, I should like get some money for this stuff.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, me and my manager had talked about it. But that was before streaming was big. When it really it's all because of streaming. Before Spotify, that shit took off... Things look pretty drab. You know? It looks like the regular decline of paychecks, like you would always see. And so 2015 I'm like, wow, this decline keeps on going. I really got to figure something out from work. I gotta get back and kick some ass here. I'm gonna run out of money and figure out what I'm gonna do. And me and him talked about that and the money that we thought we could get for it was way too low to do it. It would be ridiculous. So 2016 Spotify starts taking off and then 2017, 18 and 19 that we're looking at it, pay increase that happened it was it was substantial. They, it was like, Wow, my paycheck had tripled on royalties within three years. So that's when I've had enough clarity from not drinking for that a couple of weeks. I was like, Well now I want to what's worth you know, number this conversation may be a different conversation than we have before. So when I went and checked on that, it absolutely was it was it was right or right at what I needed to to get caught back up and your taxes paid.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, so tell me about that. The royalties, oh, because I've heard other artists say that Spotify doesn't pay and doesn't didn't the CEO of Spotify come out and say... if artist want to make money off Spotify, they need to produce more music. And that pissed off a lot of musicians i think but you're saying it's actually pretty good is that because that is that because it combines YouTube and Sirius?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, combination. Well, it's streaming in general streaming in general overall. Yeah, is that you'd like to go statement, it's gonna have all that shit on there Spotify. Which one pays the best of Spotify the best? I don't really know. Okay. Because it's hard to I don't understand the statements honestly, there's so many listings and so many other things, you know, I'm sure only accounts really know. What's the more heavyweight? individual things I would imagine. It's pretty good though. But see, but you have to have something that's, you know, got as many like if something is smashing, like, you know, Slipknot or Evanescence those are huge fans. Oh yeah, it starts to pay I can't imagine you make a whole lot of money just on Spotify. If you're a band with an album that's on Spotify and you only you know you got a few million spins you're gonna make any money
Chuck Shute :and as the producer credit more than the musician credit or the songwriting credit to
Dave Fortman :now it's less mine is it overall I get three and a half percent of overall total. They get agency they get points like I get points, but they also get publishing, writing. On top of that, so they I mean, they made a shitload of money. You may remember if a band goes Platinum or over and they are they're holding the band is going to get a certain amount of points anyway, right? Yeah, the record company isn't like, here's your 12 points or something. These go they get two or three themselves, um, which is almost equal what I got and then they all on top of that have all the songwriting publishing as well. So if you're in a band, you go sell a million records you stand to make a shitload of money. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So if you're the writers, you know, yeah. Are you are you Joe? I was only I was only responsible for busy so that my publishing on that was nowhere near what? Sure?
Chuck Shute :God. Yeah. Are you gonna be doing any producing any new albums coming up?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, um, I got to decide, you know, well, there's a few things on the table, obviously, you know, it feels good to be a musician to say No, honestly. Yeah.
Chuck Shute :That must be nice. It's still,
Dave Fortman :you know, and I'm looking at, there's a few things that come across. I'm just I'm not What I do with them and it's got some feel what I'm I don't feel the songs on it at all. So I don't see why I go in there and start trying to battle it out in a world where they're in a market to some Savannah. I'm not gonna say okay, they might listen there's a few of them just like that. Okay a little bit difficult to think that that just because you know to try to go Who cares when we go like ting random check all this time and go fly somewhere and then they're in a market that's so flooded. You know, there's a million bands that sound like that it if let's say you're a song that's gonna blow me away on if I'm really gonna jump in into bed with the whole production thing.
Chuck Shute :Well, yeah, so one of the album's you did for Godsmack it has that song "Crying Like a Bitch", which is one of my favorite Godsmack songs.
Dave Fortman :Really? No way, that's rad.
Chuck Shute :I love that song. Yeah, and now you got to tell me, do you know, cuz you're in the studio. So do you know who that song is about because the rumor is it was either Vince Neil or I think your drummer Shannon, I think he was kind of kidding, he said it was about Philip Rivers. But that's because he's a Raiders fan. So is can you
Dave Fortman :It's about Nikki Sixx
Chuck Shute :It's about Nikki Sixx?.
Dave Fortman :Yeah. Oh big time. Yeah.
Chuck Shute :HOLY SHIT... I thought it was about Vince Neil? He boxed it out with Nikki?
Dave Fortman :He boxed it out with Nikki....
Chuck Shute :Really?
Dave Fortman :Yeah. Well Sully was a full on battling mode with him and they don't get along. Yeah, probably still don't. No, I was saying it like an... expression. He was ready to box it out with me. What did he do? That was so bad? Oh, they Um, so something that happened? Um I don't know what it was man honestly. Yeah, but something happened they would talk shit talking started somewhere.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, I heard...
Dave Fortman :I heard that he was Yeah, that was what that song was aimed directly at him. Yeah.
Chuck Shute :Wow. Yeah, cuz I know that. They did Crue Fest and they were on the tour and the only thing I could find. Yeah. Yeah, I could find was that they said they wouldn't let Godsmack bring their families and friends on the side stage and like you were saying earlier he had the two bars on the side. He said they couldn't bring their friends on the side stage because they thought they were going to like mob Motley Crue or something like that.
Dave Fortman :Like that. Oh really? Oh, yeah.
Chuck Shute :I don't know.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, that is something went down that's hard to remember that was so long ago but yeah, it's about that dude for sure.
Chuck Shute :Did you ever have any run ins with money You bet. Van Halen and Bon Jovi and all those you never had any runs with Motley Crue Yeah sure. Um
Dave Fortman :we met who to me whoa Tommy Of course we met a couple times and then he had somebody who would know vigie that was working with Godsmack knew Tommy well and and toured with him. And so Vicki came and said he had something he wants you to come up to the house and check out studio maybe to see if you want to work there at some point he had a fucking rad studio in his house in Calabasas it was insane. It was really cool. So me in the guitar, who wasn't me and somebody went got to know me my engineer will out there Tommy's house and said hi to him and went check the studio out. It was insane. It's such a cool just a union Room I've never seen like it
Chuck Shute :is that the house that he did on cribs where he had like all the dancing girls and shit.
Dave Fortman :I was like an atrium in the middle with like a fucking jungle in the middle of his house. It was fast. And then you go to the studio, and it was the most innovative wiring. Like I would never have thought of all that shit like he had
Unknown Speaker :you know, like a
Dave Fortman :like a whole fucking room I guess. It's hard to describe as he walked in this hallway, but it's all amps. I'm sorry all cabinets that already might. There's all these cabinets and they're all patched on patch base. Everything's past or past base and you go in the control room. Is this fucking wall in the heads? This guitar heads are all mounted in I think they're a mount on the wall or on shoulder or something? Yeah, see, there's fucking 10 or 12 of these tabs. So they're all patched so that you now can just take patches and play with them and how you want to go like this partner goes to that cabinet or this cabinet. You know, an endless array of guitar sounds man it was it was incredible. Wow, I never would have thought of that idea, you know? completely insane. Yeah, that's very cool. So it was, I was like, Whoa, I've never would have never thought of doing that. Hacking guitar amps successful in a patch Bay. Yeah,
Chuck Shute :that's really cool. So it was around also this time with the second thing was the second Godsmack album you produced the first where you decided to get back with ugly kid Joe and then you guys had the reunion? Did you just miss playing with those guys and stuff? I mean, because your producing career was kicking ass. So
Unknown Speaker :you didn't really have the money. It was it was just a matter of Oh,
Dave Fortman :well, I didn't tour till 2017 that was just my 50th birthday. I want to go party whips and you know, I saw them doing 1000 people in Paris. I was like, man, I gotta go. To check it out in party for my 50th birthday and then feel what it's like again, and that lasted for three years. You know, two and a half years of got addicted to doing it and then I figured out I'm hearing I'll keep going. So do you
Chuck Shute :have a play on this? way to hell up then are welcome here.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah, that's what I thought we were doing
Dave Fortman :the live uninspired or 2012 would have been Yeah, like, at the end of one of the sessions or something I told Shannon Listen, man, you know, why wouldn't we just like I'm a producer, you just put something on iTunes for free, you know? And why wouldn't we just put some up we could go up there even if people miss cats in the cradle. they've missed clicks in this world. You know, if they put something below something right below it, people miss it, they hit it or something that's to me, it's just free money. So why would we make another record? So that's how the stairway to hell got started that way and then it went took it from there being and he got the spark of wanting to tour again. So they toured five years before I ever got back in the band in 2017.
Chuck Shute :Okay, so you just made the album and then you didn't tour with the
Dave Fortman :tour? No. It was at home. I love
Chuck Shute :that that album though. So it's you brought the mascot back in the sound is like I mean you're just wearing your influences on your It's like AC DC Judas Priest. Yeah, and I just even though it was a song called I need another beer or something like that I love that song sounds like a country song but it's so good.
Dave Fortman :This new this new record coming out is insane we just finished it today
Chuck Shute :Oh seriously?
Dave Fortman :It's crazy good
Chuck Shute :When does it come out?
Dave Fortman :Great tunes on it I don't know Oh didn't go down but it's it's got what I consider to be the greatest artwork we've ever done ever as a band.
Chuck Shute :Is the mascot back?
Dave Fortman :Oh yeah it but so far. I mean it's crazy really rad.
Chuck Shute :Okay, I can't wait. Is there any band that you haven't that because you've played with so many bands if you count all these festivals and everything and then whether you're producing credits, is there any band that you haven't worked with that you want to work with or you want to hang out with a party with or open for
Dave Fortman :for work? Of course there's a bunch of bands I love to work with
Chuck Shute :that you haven't yet?
Dave Fortman :I haven't watched any kind of anybody in the in the in that genre zone of what I do. You... all the big metal bands? Really? I love Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, disturbed. I'd love to make a record with you because I yeah, I've heard David draiman really loved Evanescence following him. He got my engineer don't go work with them.
Chuck Shute :I met their guitarist randomly. I was I was driving Uber and he got in the backseat. You got it? Yeah, I'm in a band. I was like, Oh, really? What band He's like, disturbed. I'm like, What? And it was really him was Dan Donegan. Nice Guy, dude. so down to earth. Very cool.
Dave Fortman :This artwork, you can't put it on the air. But no, no, you'll have to say can you send me like a like a advanced copy if I don't play it? Yeah, well, we get it done. Oh, that's
Chuck Shute :okay. Get on. I won't share it. Yeah, you can trust me. I'm I'm very loyal fans. I'm not gonna screw you over.... Oh,
Dave Fortman :It's Call "Rad Wings of Destiny." You can see it right now.
Chuck Shute :Okay. Oh my God. That is awesome....There's so much shit going on in this picture. I can't even...
Dave Fortman :Wait to look at it all. It's incredible. Oh, it's my favorite artwork.
Chuck Shute :Who does those artwork is always the same guy.
Dave Fortman :I don't know. Moishe Brennan was a guide. It was a skateboard artist, was the first guy. Okay, back in the day didn't that we moved into like, this dude I think has been since Stairway to hell this guy.
Chuck Shute :Oh yeah, that is frickin amazing. That's so badas..
Dave Fortman :I like this one so colorful. This one just looks like it's us.
Chuck Shute :Yes, exactly. What i s it? Can you describe the music at all? Like, is it what is it? Which album does it sound like?
Dave Fortman :This is gonna freak people out because it's a lot more. This is really a rock and roll album. It's like there's songs that are mixed like a Stones record on there. You know, and it's we did a cover of "Lola" that's fuckin phenomenal,
Chuck Shute :Really?
Dave Fortman :Painful... It's unbelievable. I think it's one of the best things we've done. One of the best vocal performances that Whit's ever captured. We got Mark Dotson, the original producer of "America's Least Wanted" to come back and produce for us to ah, we don't pass. Oh, so it's all this. The culmination of all just good karma and vibes from from the past and the songs are fantastic some of the best songwriting I think we've ever we've ever done, you know,
Chuck Shute :that's awesome.
Dave Fortman :It Doesn't sound like anything else we've ever done. It's way different. I mean, it's but it's a rock and roll way.
Chuck Shute :Okay,
Dave Fortman :A friend of mine.. It's been around from day one Mikey- you know, Mikey from Snot...
Chuck Shute :Yeah,
Dave Fortman :Mikey going, you know he fucking tripped on it he was like dude, this is incredible. This is so good for you guys
Chuck Shute :Is there like some metal songs into like the "Whiplash Liiquor" and "Madman"? is
Dave Fortman :Not full on metal but Klaus has one. That's pretty, pretty rock metal.
Chuck Shute :Okay, y
Dave Fortman :You know, but I have my normal two on there that are pretty, pretty good. You know, like, my home country kind of vibe, whatever.
Chuck Shute :Yeah. So when I read an interview, and I was a kid, it must have been Metal Edge or Rip or one of those things. And they were saying how Whit, he co writes the songs even though he doesn't play an instrument, because he kind of like explains it to Klaus and then Klaus can like, like play it on his guitar, is that
Dave Fortman :it's become that Now. Now. In the old days, it was just me class writing. That's it. Okay. And then he would sing them. We write lyrics and music for each of our songs. But now we're co writing a lot and when as the he has a couple songs, where does he get mouth riffs which I translated for him? He's got a couple There's a song called 'Hey, Hey ,Hey', that's fucking radical. God, it's it's this stuff sounds like trans-am rock bands in the 70s... some of it but it's California style. It's just a fucking cool record, man.
Chuck Shute :It's a full it's not an EP. It's a full album?
Dave Fortman :Full record eight song record. Yeah. Okay. It's a rad album, Man.
Chuck Shute :God, I can't wait.
Dave Fortman :It's a really cool album. Okay, just done. I can't get it.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, I can't wait to hear that's gonna be awesome.
Dave Fortman :We had a great time. We did a really cool experience.
Chuck Shute :So you're gonna you're gonna try to keep producing some bands. But you're saying you can kind of be more selective now. Yeah, you know.
Dave Fortman :I get stuck in you know, because there's an artist out in California Rita Taylor, this little girl say 12 But it's so hard to decide what I would actually do with it. And then you know, I don't want to end up watching this podcast because I don't know I'm gonna do it. But it's I drive myself nuts because I don't really know what direction to go with because simply because people have already been trying to produce her she's gonna be on a show called the breakout it's going to be on NBC coming up so when he's a little kid is a child actor, a really talented singer too. But for me, I'm like, I'm stuck as to where I should go with it. Because Because the father wanted me to do it, because I did have an SSA and they think that's the sound it should be, but they don't really know. But there's people doing the pop up. And I'm you know, I'm not I haven't done a whole lot of stuff. Like I can't just go out and make a post malone song. You know, I haven't really practiced it doing that kind of stuff, you know?
Chuck Shute :Yeah. Or would you want to do that kind of stuff? Huh? Would you want to do that kind of stuff even?
Unknown Speaker :Well,
Dave Fortman :yeah, if I could, but the thing is, nobody's calling me to do that kind of stuff. And so I have a feeling that they may be heading themselves in the wrong direction. Like they think they want it to be like Evanescence, but the moment that I really put a rock band or something on it like that. make it sound like that that that you're really going to want to be more like what they think what they really should be they should probably sound like post malone was that sir you know they told me one thing then she says well here's all my favorite bands are like post malone and all this stuff
Unknown Speaker :right other words point being
Dave Fortman :you know this is one of those moments where it's like it's not clearly defined that my involvement would be something even worth doing you know what I mean it just could end up being a convoluted nightmare and it with a lot of it have to do a free it's a spec deal so but it could in the backside of these deals are now what if you don't you've imagined she runs off and becomes massive you know, I don't know where if I let that go.
Chuck Shute :What seems like you've taken a lot of chances that have paid off like joint dumping sugar tooth for ugly kid Joe that worked out and then becoming a producer for all these bands. I mean, that worked out so what's what I got another chance.
Dave Fortman :I definitely wouldn't hurt to do it. Yeah, they just see something. It's almost like I'm getting older. Just look at it like, oh god here we go that you know, I think I'm gonna cut it down. Let me do one song. Yeah, let's just do it. That's what I would do.
Chuck Shute :That's very cool. Well, I'm trying to think you got a you told some really good party stories on the other podcast Do you have any other ones that are coming to mind right now like what other bands party hardier than then ugly kid joke it seems like you guys are pretty wild
Dave Fortman :something that didn't get told in that fucking Oh really? Other podcast what was it somebody reminded me to I can't remember
Chuck Shute :Def Leppard Van Halen Bon Jovi Metallica. poison you guys have to sign up Berra?
Dave Fortman :Oh, god it was willing Ozzie Tory I didn't say Oh, Ozzy
Chuck Shute :was Aussie sober this point though.
Dave Fortman :I don't know but it was had to do with zakk Wylde you know, oh, it we were in them. We was our first tour. So we're fucking raging man. And Ozzy Ozzy got sick cancel the tour. Hey, I'm sorry. Okay, yeah, sick and cancel. Like a show one night, I think we're Baltimore or somewhere and to fill in to do something so Zach had gotten with the, these two other guys, one roadie guy and another drummer, whatever and they do a three piece they kind of play Southern rock. So we go to the club where they're doing it out down in Baltimore, and it's packed, man. There's got to be 1000 people in second place. And some crane goes back in the stage behind is where the bathrooms are, like back in the back area. It's like a stage where you can walk back there into the bathroom. It's still public behind there. Yeah, it's so Craig is back there. It finds a fucking fire extinguisher. And so he lets it spray all back in the back area. And people panic, the whole place clears out to zero. They think it's some kind of fucking fire I guess. People start panicking. They can't see him breathing their run out. And so I'm sure Zach's plan he's literally jealous at the fucking place clears out to zero right in his face. Oh god. So he has no idea and he figures it out and I'm the first one he sees On the marketplace Oh, god dammit, for me to pick me up on my throat. I'm like, wait,
Unknown Speaker :wasn't me like it was
Dave Fortman :like, he got mad at us, you know? That's like,
Chuck Shute :wasn't me. Yeah, Jesus.
Dave Fortman :The other one too was which I should you know this this had to be one of the scariest moments ever. Where this is the bad thing that happened with Def Leppard. Oh, this is the story didn't get told this. Oh, this was gnarly. So we go, before we ever get with Def Leppard. Right? We were playing this festival in Canada. And no, no, sorry. No, no, it was a rocker marine. In 94 was probably the best concert the bands ever played, right? We were so big. It was Jeremy's 80,000 people while they were throwing money, it was just fun thing, you know. And so, we get the next year we're touring. I was 92. So the next year, we're 21 Def Leppard in America. So we hit this Canadian show and so it's raining outside so we decided let's do the one thing today so yeah, alright guys throw them out, you know, so they start bombarding the stage to the point where it's out of control like we're getting bombarded with
Chuck Shute :Jesus
Unknown Speaker :so
Dave Fortman :any does the ultimate No no, he took you to make it stop went goes all right no bomb him and he points to the sound tip plus fucking to panic man. I saw those guys they start trying to cover up all the equipment and they just got mowed down.
Chuck Shute :Oh shit, does that sound
Dave Fortman :end up being like a $600 cleaning fee but you can imagine what kind of trouble that should is for us. And they did literally mow him down like and so we're walking offstage. I remember Rick the drummer standing outside. It looks over look it looks it looks at windows fucking twit. Just so mad.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, does that happen a lot because I think I heard a story about you I don't know if it was when you were in the banner was Roger but it was at a long island show you guys did like a free show. And people started throwing bottles at like glass bottles that you guys like it one at Klaus in the head like knocked him out. Yeah. Okay.
Dave Fortman :nearly missed by a bottle that was just being in the wrong kind of city. I was up in Long Island. Some assholes didn't like us, you know? Only a club with about 300 people. Maybe less it was a small little club and out of nowhere man is fucking the one I'm busted on with on which microphone. Thank god right. It was about hitting the face of Buster right and it's right in front of him. Nobody had claps in the head. The other one missed me. You know they do a lot of same top three bottles. Yeah. I was like, Whoa, dude. I mean, that's Yeah, that was the only time it ever happened at all this concert so which is pretty cool.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, that's good. Yeah, cuz that's some scary shit like now it seems like they they only give you plastic bottles or cups or whatever.
Dave Fortman :Yeah, yeah, that's Yeah, that's about as scary as it gets. You know, somebody's been told. You know?
Chuck Shute :Do you ever get Do you ever get Did you ever get mobbed by fans or whatever I always see like video even like the smaller bands, you know I mean not smaller but like Skid Row and stuff they have those music videos and they're just they're in Japan and there's just mobs I mean it's like the Beatles like it's craziness
Dave Fortman :yeah the Japanese the one time that we gone as man was it was some of that going on for sure yeah where you're like whoa like really sick a bit tired. Yeah, how do you
Chuck Shute :how do you guys handle that back in the day because now it's like everyone's like they're making money off that they're using the meet and greets for pictures and stuff. You guys do meet and greets back in the day or
Dave Fortman :Yeah, we will help the series that the more individuals that you can affect him sign things for them that spreads and that is Yeah, marketing is all it really is right? But yeah, you gotta sign things you have in a lot of times we would finish concerts and be shitless everybody all been there. See you girl on stage. You haven't had a drink yet? They're drunk is fun. Oh, right. It's really it can really disturb us is is a musician to have to deal with that kind of energy again. To get used to it, you got to you know, everybody's breathing on you and you get assigned shit. And you know, if they're happy, you have to realize that they're stoked because they just had a great show. And they want to talk to you. So, you know, it drives some people nuts, but you know, we I got used to it. I think everybody did eventually, but it wasn't you know, we weren't that over the top rock star. So, in other words, we never really hit a moment of being headliners to where we were that kind of band. You know, we never hit that same level as people think we did. I mean,
Chuck Shute :did you ever just get recognized just like walking down the street Darren?
Dave Fortman :Oh, yeah, a few times. Yeah. Oh, certainly. When was the fame of the band, but yeah, there'll be steel fans are fans, you know? Yeah. That's cool. You know, if people will stare at a magazine for an hour, you know that yeah, that kid's gonna go like there is or some guitar player kid, you know, they'll they'll pick you out.
Chuck Shute :That's very cool. Very cool. Well, I always like to end each episode with a charity. Do you have one that you work with or promote? Are you
Dave Fortman :I don't really know. I don't know. I didn't really think about it. I'm not sure how
Chuck Shute :Nothing, there's nothing that you
Dave Fortman :share. I don't know. I don't really know what each. What cherries are. Just I don't know what what happened. All right,
Chuck Shute :well, we'll figure something out. Um, and then yeah, I mean, obviously, you've done so many amazing things a tour with ugly kid Joe, you've toured almost every band and produce so many amazing bands. So you say you're just going to kind of more focus on that you're not going to tour Are you gonna do any live shows? Like we could go with maybe a parents here or there?
Dave Fortman :Yeah, I might. I might go show up and jam a song or two willamina Oh, cool. Sure me and Shana, when they're doing that they play the stage around her Muse generator will probably play with a welder. Imagine Okay, cool.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, I definitely got to see you guys lie. Oh, maybe I have to drive up to would it be California where you're in Florida though, right. So
Dave Fortman :I mean, she and her origin.
Chuck Shute :Okay, so if you guys do a Florida show, maybe I got to come up with that.
Dave Fortman :Fuck yeah..., let me wrap. I'm sure they will. that'll probably be something in the future. Okay. We'll be in America. They will do that where me and Shannon will play with them here for sure. They'll play here or they'll play somewhere
Chuck Shute :else. Cool. Well keep me posted. Thanks so much for doing this. Anything else you want to promote or anything else you want to promote or talk about or
Dave Fortman :the new album. Now? destiny gets going,
Chuck Shute :what's the agenda date for it?
Dave Fortman :I don't know for sure.
Chuck Shute :Okay. Cool, man. Thanks so much, Dave. This is amazing. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Bye bye. So there you have it. Dave foreman guitarist from ugly kid, Joe, producer for so many amazing bands. I'm excited to hear the new ugly kid Joe. I hope that I can get like a sneak peek of that. Otherwise, uh, I'll hear when you guys all hear it, which will hopefully be soon. And I definitely want to check them out live. So definitely check out ugly kid Joe's back catalogue. Look out for the new album. Check out all the things that Dave has produced. You can look him up on Wikipedia. He's got quite an extensive resume. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, share it with a friend. subscribe to the podcast. Cassie never miss an episode. And thank you all for listening and remember to shoot for the moon.