Mark and Kym Hilinski are the founders of Hilinski's Hope, a non-profit started to preserve the memory of their son Tyler and raise awareness of mental health.
0:00:00 - Intro
0:02:46 - Welcome Kym & Mark
0:03:47 - Kym and Mark's Background
0:05:05 - Birth of Tyler
0:06:23 - Early Love of Sports
0:08:08 - Other Interests
0:11:20 - Early Football Years
0:15:20 - Deciding on WSU
0:19:05 - Coach Mike Leach
0:24:05 - Backup at WSU
0:28:10 - Boise St Game
0:30:42 - Arizona Game
0:37:25 - Brother Kelly & CJ Dimry
0:43:50 - Happy, Positive & Lit Up The Room
0:47:30 - Going Shooting With Teammates
0:53:10 - Piecing Together the Final Moments
1:00:33 - Autopsy and CTE
1:02:30 - Going Through Tyler's Phone
1:08:06 - Thinking of Tyler
1:11:30 - Ryan Hilinski
1:14:34 - Hilinski's Hope & Raising Awareness
1:20:00 - Suicidal Thoughts = EMERGENCY
1:21:30 - Unit3d Podast and 3 Day
1:29:45 - Stuart Scott Enspire Award
1:32:02 - Speaking Up About Mental Illness
1:41:45 - Moving to South Carolina
1:46:18 - Wrap Up
Hilinski's Hope:
https://hilinskishope.org
National Alliance On Mental Illness:
https://nami.org/Home
Hilinski's Hope Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/hilinskishope/
Chuck Shute Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/chuck_shute/
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
Mark and Kym Hilinski are the founders of Hilinski's Hope, a non-profit started to preserve the memory of their son Tyler and raise awareness of mental health.
0:00:00 - Intro
0:02:46 - Welcome Kym & Mark
0:03:47 - Kym and Mark's Background
0:05:05 - Birth of Tyler
0:06:23 - Early Love of Sports
0:08:08 - Other Interests
0:11:20 - Early Football Years
0:15:20 - Deciding on WSU
0:19:05 - Coach Mike Leach
0:24:05 - Backup at WSU
0:28:10 - Boise St Game
0:30:42 - Arizona Game
0:37:25 - Brother Kelly & CJ Dimry
0:43:50 - Happy, Positive & Lit Up The Room
0:47:30 - Going Shooting With Teammates
0:53:10 - Piecing Together the Final Moments
1:00:33 - Autopsy and CTE
1:02:30 - Going Through Tyler's Phone
1:08:06 - Thinking of Tyler
1:11:30 - Ryan Hilinski
1:14:34 - Hilinski's Hope & Raising Awareness
1:20:00 - Suicidal Thoughts = EMERGENCY
1:21:30 - Unit3d Podast and 3 Day
1:29:45 - Stuart Scott Enspire Award
1:32:02 - Speaking Up About Mental Illness
1:41:45 - Moving to South Carolina
1:46:18 - Wrap Up
Hilinski's Hope:
https://hilinskishope.org
National Alliance On Mental Illness:
https://nami.org/Home
Hilinski's Hope Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/hilinskishope/
Chuck Shute Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/chuck_shute/
Thanks for Listening & Shute for the Moon!
Welcome to the Chuck Shute podcast. My guests today are mark and Kim kolinsky. They're the parents of Washington State quarterback Tyler olinsky. So Tyler was a very bright young star at Wazoo he had already made some amazing plays in his playing time there. And he was likely to make a huge jump the following year into this into the starting quarterback, unfortunately, Tyler became a victim of mental illness, and he died by suicide. And this tragedy shook not only his team, but I think the whole school and really the sports world and really the whole country. I mean, if you follow the story, and you heard about this, I mean, it was heartbreaking and obviously, you know, affected his family. The most But his parents started Alinsky his hope this is a nonprofit foundation with a goal of keeping Tyler's memory alive. But they do so much more than that. They have, you know, the raising awareness and reducing the stigma of mental illness and also educating people about what they can do. So I was listening to a podcast right after I did this interview. It's called the mindset mentor with Rob dial and he was just, I think this happened to line up with with the interview I just did. And he was talking about how you know, right now the world needs leaders. And you know, usually when you're feeling bad, you're thinking about yourself, and when you feel good. It's because you're focusing on purpose, like the purpose that we, you know, have in this world, it's, it's usually for most people that purpose involves helping somebody in some way. And that's why I think what they olinsky are doing is so great, and I'm just glad that I could give them a form to tell their story and I hope this opens up some eyes to mental health and How important it is. The biggest takeaway I hope you get is that if you're struggling with depression or anxiety, reach out and ask for help. You know, if you feel like you did not get that help, just keep asking ask different people, but don't give up. Likewise, you know, if you're worried about somebody else that you think is going through a tough time, you know, keep reaching out to them Don't give up. I think that polinsky story resonates. I hope that it resonates with some of you and creates a discussion and maybe makes you think about either yourself that maybe you're struggling and you need help or somebody that you know, who may be struggling and I think they've already helped so many people. And so hopefully this could help some more. Episode helps one person I think that's amazing.
Mark Hilinski :Hi.
Chuck Shute :Chuck is good. Yeah, Charles my birth name, but everybody calls me Chuck.
Mark Hilinski :My dad. He always went by check to exactly and so mark for Hear with the kids. Oh, hi, Mark. How are you? Good, good. See you guys ready? We are Yeah, we are together where? Speaker and I think most of the podcasts we've done before have we done it this way too and they're video as well but we like to do sitting next to each other that way we can answer the question and we don't end up talking on top of each other.
Chuck Shute :Sounds good. So, yeah, here's what I'd like to do is maybe just talk a little bit about you guys and then a lot about Tyler and then of course, follow up with everything, all the good things that you're doing with Alinsky hope.
Unknown Speaker :Okay, sure. Okay.
Chuck Shute :So, so mark is an entrepreneur and Kim, I didn't realize this. You're a lawyer.
Kym Hilinski :Yeah, well, not really anymore. I mean, I was I've been practicing since 1990 in California. Yet, and then we moved to South Carolina last year, and I take the bar again, there's not a lot of reciprocity, but not very many states offer that. So I was like, You know what, I did it for almost 30 years. I'm done.
Chuck Shute :Okay. And then so how did you two meet?
Mark Hilinski :Swimming Pool it was always a sort of a structure as a lifeguard through college and so with Mark we just had we were at the same pool and read the last summer before I was going to law school and I thought you know what, I'll never probably ever have a job working outside again. I'm gonna you know, before I start the fall, I'm gonna do one last you know, did my instructor or lifeguard instructor and Mark happen to be the pool manager? Ah, so that was it.
Chuck Shute :Okay, so you to fall in love. You got married you how to set your first son was Kelly. And then a few Later on May 26 1986, Claremont California Tyler is born and you said that he was the biggest of the three boys weighed in at 10 pounds
Mark Hilinski :10 pounds 10 ounces 10 bit
Chuck Shute :yeah and 24 inches is that that's that's above average for baby I don't know what it averages for?
Mark Hilinski :I think so. It fell above average I could see that for sure. But yeah, he was a really big chubby and long they were all pretty big what nine pounds just say 10 pounds both Kelly and Ryan and all of the workout points are so what was their that did you feel like? They're not so little there's a little bit there. Yeah. So that's good for us.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah.
Chuck Shute :Was he a happy baby was a fussy baby was you remember that?
Mark Hilinski :Well, he was the easiest of the three, right? Not not fussy at all. Marco says we just you know content either sitting on our you know our hips or laying on our chest or you know it's sitting on my lap he was just that kind of kid and just, you know beautiful on top of it all.
Chuck Shute :So from the moment he could like hold a ball, he was always holding a ball and he he slept with a baseball glove because he liked the way it smelled.
Mark Hilinski :Exactly. I do remember that. That was our first Claremont walk in see me sleeping there with love, you know? Between is our smells so good.
Chuck Shute :And he also likes basketball. He ended up shooting a lot of baskets basket after basket in the hoop in the family driveway.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, we had this Great story actually about you know, they always kept it in Claremont and we've got what we want now to and he never gotten stuck with sort of a teacher's pet. They all love them. And but he did do something one day I can't remember what it was it probably wasn't significant, but I remember picking off school and telling him that he had to sit at the dining table which was actually right up against the driveway to look out the window and see the hoop in the driveway. And I came around the corner from the kitchen and there he was with his elbows on the window sill and his chin, you know, this sort of rests in the palm of his hand staring out at the basketball hoop. And I just, you know, I kept walking by what but I finally said, okay, Tyler, go suit. Wait, yeah,
Chuck Shute :so he was he was described as well. Bit of a goofball kind of a mama's boy. And really kind of a homebody, right. But they're also very down to earth.
Mark Hilinski :Oh, yeah. He definitely. All of our kids really are. They like to go out they have their friends. But they also just like to hang out at home. And we're big movie watchers. Ah, going to the movies, watching them at home. Whatever. We love doing that together. Potter was probably of all of our kids. Maybe Ryan to see he loved the movies the most.
Chuck Shute :What were some of his favorite movies? Do you remember?
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, Mark probably knows. I mean, he likes a goofball one to record. Yeah, he liked he liked the funny movies like The Will Ferrell movies. You like the books he read was sort of the the, you know, the the young adult Sort of mystery fantasy collection you know, and easy read sort of story based, you know, he read, but he had this he wanted to be a director at one point he wanted to tell stories and he thought that might be a really neat way to do it and and so this as he was playing football and you know there's not a lot of schools that specialize in movie filmmaking so your cat is on USC a little bit but as he got to Washington state he he sort of you know flipped over to maybe wanting to coach and the body can be really effective being a coach but she didn't really seen it that was never really a thing but you know, growing up or he was he was a he was a great leader but and and he was really smart lips smart about football and and the playbook and All that stuff but I think as he got older, he he saw the you know, at least we pulled me saw the opportunity to help other people and he thought that might be a better thing so yeah he he liked him I mean he liked the you know like the Lincoln is the one that I that we we I can vote for quarter Mark would come home from work and sometimes there would be Tyler sitting there watching Lincoln for the black but you know the 12 thrive while that actually I guess he liked facilities but maybe they actually meant something he learned a lot from them. But we have we have these memories to have. This is how he learned how to play poker. She would watch ESPN and all the Texas Hold'em tournaments, poker tournaments and pleased to say oh my Now, how did this kid how to play poker at four or five years old? Why is he watching it? You know, all the time on television? I think just the cards and it was not that he was great at it but
Chuck Shute :yeah, that's it know that so what age did he get into football then
Mark Hilinski :I started playing Kelly. I coached the team, you know, 7779 year olds and beat Kelly was eight. Tyler was, you know, almost seven. And they played on the same team together. But how there was so much smaller, you know, age wise, that a nine year old and a seven year old are can be very big gaps and stuff. He started playing in the Tyler Tyler play. He was really great in a lot of things and I don't you know, that said that he was just now Really kind of athletic, so he was great at soccer. You know, he'd be the top soul score, you know, guy on the team. Basketball, it'd be the highest score there and love to love to compete love to play baseball, you know, play, hit home runs with a broken thumb. I mean, he didn't. He just loved to be doing something athletic sports, he didn't really get into skiing or surf surfing or snowboarding or anything like that. He liked a lot of the team sport. He liked golf he played with my parents when you go see him in Arizona, and he loves to just sort of go to the range and that would be something that he and I could do. Of the three he's the only one that really sort of like doing it, you know, they'll do it and they they burn through you know, 50 balls and find to go do something else and Tyler gets it and you know, work through an hour or two and Have a lot of fun. So he was really good at a lot of things he liked football. And then but you know, he went through a savior because he was playing on Kelly's team where Kelly was so tall. We would use him as the quarterback and Kelly wasn't very, wasn't as athletic. So he could but he could throw far You know, that kind of stuff. So, Tyler would play receiver or running back or whatever. So
Chuck Shute :Tyler Kelly's backups up in high school at one point.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, in high school. He was Yeah. high end at Notre Dame High School. He was he probably wants to do to junior high school. We moved throughout in the Valley, California and I was Kelly went to Notre Dame High School. And Tyler was to two grades younger so as a freshman he played on the front seat.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, he was the front. Okay.
Mark Hilinski :So but yeah, and there's no
Chuck Shute :Go on sorry.
Mark Hilinski :Well, there's a big so the whole thing in high school football in California was you really wanted to have your sophomore and junior years as your, you know your primary tape years for college football. So you want to go somewhere where you could play as a sophomore. If you couldn't play as a sophomore, you absolutely had to play as a junior and yet play really well. senior season. You know, pretty much all the recruiting was done. So he had three played he was on an undefeated you know, freshman team on Notre Dame, which Notre Dame is really good and in the valley league. Kelly did great there and had a lot of fun, but we moved back to Claremont. for other reasons, and Tyson Tyler ended up it up on High School, which was a very big, you know, division. Well, the divisions are different, but one was in the top division. They were, you know, one of the top conferences league so he got a lot of competition there when that job and had a phenomenal you know, junior season and just enjoyed it. One of us game directors.
Chuck Shute :So that's when the colleges just start sniffing around and he got offers from Cal and Utah State and obviously Wazzu. So why did he do what made him decide on Wazzu?
Mark Hilinski :Well, I don't you know, Wazzu was his first.... it was his first big division one offer and he liked the idea of playing in the PAC 12. But I think specifically Washington State and coach Leach when Tyler was recruited. You know, Coach Wilson would come up and watch him throw and talk to our head coach and talk to us a little bit and talk to Tyler and he said you know, with Coach (Leach), you really have to be able to Throw the ball 150 times a day without injuring yourself because that's all we do throw, right and so right so you can Mike or coach Leach many many, many comments on this kind of stuff. Tyler had a really good arm had a super accurate arm. He was very mobile. You know, for 6'4" , 220 he was he was really pretty quick. So I think he liked the idea of playing Washington State because that system, you know, if it really goes back to this, Tyler is a backyard football guy.... He wants to play offense all the time. Right. So let me throw, let me throw, let me throw... whatever at school you know during recess out with his brothers on Thanksgiving weekend, or on his high school or college football team. He wants to throw... and you also know the coach gives them... Leach give them the play- and it's really a suggestion. And each each play is the pass play with a run play backup. And I you know, Tyler would just never check into the run very often.... Luke would do it.... he just didn't do it like coach jokes about it, but why would I hand it to a guy that a foot away and then when I can throw to a guy 12 yards away further, you know closer to the end zone, all of those little jokes and stuff. But that's sort of how Tyler thought anyway, I think the idea of going there and doing that. Now Cal is interesting because Cal came on later. But the recruiting process with Cal he had been there he went to junior day, he went to camp there, we flew up and went to a camp. He talked to coach Franklin who was offensive coordinator there, and a bunch and he didn't get as awkward to lead until after he had already committed to Wazzu and he didn't like the idea of de-committing. He thought you know, the name Cal name might be a little bit stronger, you know, just this is what they, you know, kids go through anyway. But I mean, at the end, I think he really liked the coaches and he liked the people and he likes Wazzu and he was gonna make the best of it and, you know, if you piece all that stuff out, which is really important to the guys that are being recruited at quarterback is, you know, Luke is probably going to go in the draft is, you know, after his junior year, a and not stick around and that'll give him more opportunity and all that, you know, that's right. And then that didn't happen for us and when we had 2017 season, which was sort of a mixed bag, you know, he got in a couple times. I thought played just amazingly well. But you have to, you know, you have to stop the other guys from scoring too.
Chuck Shute :Right...So with Mike Leach he part of the reason he went to was it was Mike Leach we take a tangent for a second. Do you have any good Mike Leach stories? I just I love a good Mike Leach story like something that maybe isn't in the press.
Mark Hilinski :Well, I mean, I don't know if we have we started earlier I think we are Yeah, I'm sorry.
Kym Hilinski :Well you know what I remember this is I think part of the reason why why Tyler chose Washington State is in our family we go on a lot of walks and a lot of bike rides - that was part of our we live in this town and Claremont that they have the village was just down the street, you could go and you could get a smoothie.... you could get yogurt, you can get a slice of pizza, it was all.... the movie theater....we always walked to the movie theater but a lot of times Tyler and I would go for a walk or bike ride at seven or eight o'clock at night, and the phone would ring and it would be Coach Leach, and they would be on the phone for an hour, an hour and a half, all through our entire walk, we ended up getting a pizza, but he'd still be talking to coach Leach, and they would talk about anything. And honestly, I don't really remember them talking about football. So it was, you know, they would talk about stories, they share stories about, you know, each other's childhood, and I do remember that, you know, just enjoying listening to them, and their conversation. And you know, watching Tyler smile as he would talk to the coach. I know
Chuck Shute :That that's crazy, because I always thought the head coaches of a D one football team would just be way too busy. A lot of the recruiting would be put off on the assistants. That's amazing that he spent an hour. Wow.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah. Remember what I mean? Mike doesn't have an offensive coordinator or a quarterback's coach.
Chuck Shute :That's true. That's true. That's all him.
Mark Hilinski :A lot of these places. They have you know, several guys that are that are important. And I think, you know, Coach Leach would go on his walk at Washington State...and that's when he would be able to get on the phone he wouldn't have anybody pulling out of, you know, he's surrounded by, you know, guys super Dave and some of those guys that sort of manage his schedule and stuff, but it's hard. I mean, we've been on trips with them where Ryan I think when Ryan had his visit up there, we sat and we were talking about his pieces of eight and and we were well past, you know, the visit. Practices started Tyler had already left Tyler came by and grabbed some stuff out of his office and, and they were trying to get him out of there. But you could just like if you could just sit and watch. They, they don't tell him it's time. They just sort of try to, you know, circle the wagons and get them out there but man when he wants to talk about pirate stuff and pieces of eight...He's just gonna do it and everything else. But I mean, there's a there's a million stories, I think the funny one, which is, I don't think it's out there. Most of them for us is always about Luke... You know, Luke was... and we've talked to Luke since then obviously, about this and stuff, but you know,
Chuck Shute :Luke Falk, the other quarterback.
Mark Hilinski :Sorry. So Luke was a much more serious guy. And Coach, you know, Coach likes to drift off. And so they'd have these competitions, because Luke would get more and more mad that he wanted to go and do the work and get out....And so the quarterbacks had sort of an agreement, I think this has been told before, but they have an agreement- don't ask him a question like when he's done- but everybody don't say anything get up. So they would do this and then Tyler at the end of those would always go "You know, coach, I don't know, I don't understand why.." whatever the question is, "I don't understand why, you know, cover 2 always get this guy's this way or that." Oh, well let me tell you first of all back in you know, wherever Minnesota when they first thought he would just randomly go off on these and if they would do it sort of it was a needling thing to Luke but
Chuck Shute :Ah, that's funny...
Mark Hilinski :but all good all in good fun so the funny the funniest one though Chuck really, and you have to... Tyler does a good impression of them, but he when he thinks that you've missed an open receiver, he has a tendency to kind of exaggerat it... he would always say, you know, Luke if you forgot how to throw the football kick the fucking thing to him he's wide open
Chuck Shute :that is funny
Mark Hilinski :so yeah,
Kym Hilinski :yeah So,
Chuck Shute :so Tyler chooses Wazzu he gets the wazoo the first couple years like you said he, you know, he's kind of the backup to Luke Falk. How is he? Was he getting antsy trying to waiting for his turn those first few years, or did he enjoy his time? It was Ooh.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah. Well, he first he had a great group of friends. Most of them were on the football team. And so his teammates were good friends too. And they were also his roommate. So Anthea, yeah, I think he wanted to get on the field of March and go more in depth than that. But I think he really enjoyed his time up there. And it was we know it was hoped that we do remember the first few weeks. You know, he sort of figured out that, you know, he really needs being at home and being with his family, but you know, we battled through that, again, found that great group of friends and teammates and as far as Getting on the field. But you know, I think every competitive athlete, you know, once once their day on the field right once their time, but I didn't talk too much about football as marketed. You could elaborate on that. I think like anybody I mean, like Tim said they want to play Tyler and I would watch his expos, his practice. You know, every other week or so when they'd be in season or when they had camps and stuff. And he called me in and, you know, I get a chance to log on and watch some of the fastest throws or some of the drills or whatever they did. And he pointed out stuff that he needed to pick some things he could do better and so forth. But he, you know, one thing that coach always taught them or tried to was, you really just have to focus on yourself and your team and he can't really, you know, it's not your job or his job to worry about. What Luke's doing or finance that he's doing or any of that. And so I think Tyler was really good at that he was, he was anxious. Because he, he, we would always come and see him. And he felt like it was a wasted trip if he didn't get to play and all that stuff. And we just told them, you know, we just love being there and cnm and seeing them after the games and hanging out with them over the weekend, and that kind of stuff. We're football mattered. It was fun. It was something we all did, but it wasn't wasn't the reason we went to go see Tyler. And then as he played, you know that last year as he got a chance to play when the game wasn't, you know, either when Luke would get hurt or the game was sort of out of control the wrong way they they try to wake up, you know, the quarterback room by putting in a new guy. So you have obviously the Boise State game, which, you know, wasn't a perfect game by any stretch. But but it was in the end, right. Yeah.
Chuck Shute :And before that he had his first Touchdown. When he was a sophomore at the Arizona Game, it was a 71 yard bomb to Cray Crafton. I remember that game because it was a blot. And they put it's kind of like you said, they put him in and he didn't hand the ball off and run the clock out. He threw a ball. So he must have, like,
Mark Hilinski :yeah, I think it's final stats are like 15 or 1700 and 70 yards and two touchdowns. I mean, they, they just, you know, look, and then it's funny then a year later against Arizona, we're down by 21 again and first half. And Tyler goes in at the end was right at the last drive we had before the halftime and we we marked the ball all the way down score, close the gap a little bit. Then we kicked off, if I remember right, and they ran it all the way back and kick the field goal so it only meant four points. And then he threw for 509 yards or something in the second half and have four touchdowns but also for four So yeah,
Chuck Shute :but before that, before that game, there was Yeah, let's go back to that Boise State game and Kim I think was at the game, but they put him in and the first day. I think they benched Falcon. They put Tyler in and then they put fog back in. But then Falcon went down in the fourth quarter. So they put him in with 10 minutes left, and they were down 31 to 10. And somehow he leads this crazy comeback, quadruple overtime wins the game and they actually put them up on the players shoulders. I've never that's pretty rare, I think for team to do that.
Mark Hilinski :It was a it was magical to be there. And like Mark said we would go to the game. When I was we knew that it wasn't going to start we'd never really thought it would play it with somebody. Like Mark said it was sort of a lopsided or so we have divided our games because they have to stay home with Ryan unless Ryan had to buy because he was playing on Friday night. So our whole deal was, you know, you watch as much as you could have Ryan gave buckets. Los Angeles airport, pick the red eye land in either Pullman or Spokane, you know, get over to the game, usually right before the game started. So that just happened to be my weekend, marketing home, and I went out and I saw a pile right before the game started, you know, they did the team does this walk through all the fans, and I got to see Tyler during that walk. And then the next thing I know that Marcus texted me, how does warming up? You know, is he going in and I said, I, you know, I can't tell you. And the next thing we know, he's going in and I'm building tests for Mark and my friends from all over the places are watching silos, you know, go into the game and it was it was pretty magical. I think Of course, I love that they want and vessel for him and the team that they did it triple overtime and that he did get, you know, wasted on their shoulder. But I think the part that I loved the most was spending time with him after the game, you know, and he walked on our, you know, back to the hotel, my hotel just talks about we couldn't believe it happened and we just was so excited and smiling, but he just wanted to share the bone with after the game with me and that made sure that it was right on the phone. Dad, brother.
Chuck Shute :Wow. Yeah, that was amazing. And then so going back to the night of the second Arizona Game, you know, he threw for over 500 yards. But yeah, he did have four interceptions. They lost the game, and he took a rough hit in that one and then you guys said that I mean I could see the tape. He looked very sad and somber in the press conference. And it was kind of after that game that he started getting more distant. And that's when you saw the change in his behavior. Right, less contact and the contact was getting shorter.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, I mean, you know, some of this stuff is imprecise, you know, but but for that game, but yeah, the crappy thing about that game for us is, that was his job, his job is to go out there and try to win the game, right? It was to lead the team back and there were so many spectacular lead positive moments, and there's a couple of forced throws, and then, you know, you You let guys run down the field at the top and, and you have to come back and change that. You're going to also be you know, you're, you're coming from behind, you know, he said, After that game, if I could just get in when the scores 00. Yeah, it would be in a mean sort of joke. But But afterwards, it wasn't. It wasn't just tired. I mean, in the grouping of the parents and stuff downstairs waiting for him to get out of the, you know, out of their meeting and leave the whole place was was just devastated and somber. And, you know, there was so much you know, we came back to the we were winning that game. So down by whatever 21 again, and we were up at one point on Tyler second running touchdown, we were ahead and we just didn't win the game. So that Yeah, he and he did he got our and afterwards he was he he was mad and miserable as I've ever seen a master football game and he you know, I'm sure you know a lot of people us included. Not every game is going to end like Boise State and it's it's great to be competing. You want to you want to compete and stuff, but I mean, he felt very strongly that it's always his. It was never his fault that they won that it was always this fault that they lost and Pick do that, you know, I think the last one was a pick six The game was over. But I think that just solidified it. And yes, he his anger, if you can, is what I said, not just his anger underneath sort of those questions in the press conference. The weight of the world was on a soldier and it was just it was just like the bowl game. I felt like that those two interviews were nearly the same, you know, the way he answered questions and the way he held himself and held themselves accountable. And then just privately, he said, it's just embarrassing. It's embarrassing to lose like that and not be able to finish it. So yeah, and then I think in your comment about upenn, we've we've said this, obviously, it's less noticeable while it's happening, but it's easy to dissect looking backwards, but what was the other part that was happening is toward between then and the bowl game press. So, you know, we have a lot of things going on at that school including coach elites, you know, interviewing all over the country for a new job. We had Tyler, two of his favorite receivers. You know, we're, we're transferring and so he all of this as as he was sort of coming into thinking about 2018 it looked like you know, things were pretty tough. So he was on the phone, I remember being on the phone and, and he was calling coach. He was at the airport and he was flying back from Tennessee or to Tennessee. And he had one impression the media different impression, but it didn't, didn't really matter. But But my point is all of that sort of happening. They're doing bowl practice. Luke's hand I think it was his hand, his wrist, not feeling well. He's starting you know, If they're going to start and he's not going to start, then he's getting all the reps and factors. And he's not. There's a lot of stuff going on. So it's hard to know how much of that was just pulling away at him, you know, taking time so his answer was shorter and stuff. But when you reflect on it and think about his the way he did certain things, what he said the way he said it, there was a lot more I overslept, I forgot my phone. There, they were just, you know, the excuses that Tyler smarter than that, you know, but he didn't. He wasn't spending much time explaining himself anymore. He was sort of being you know, depending on which view you took either slipping away and being more quiet or he was being pulled into somebody other directions. You know, he has a private life, his girlfriend and a former girlfriend and friends and friends and Pullman friends in California, you know, The game how many everybody wants to come down and watch and play? They're all wishing them well. Meanwhile, we're playing Michigan State who was, you know, on a roll and and we had a tough game there too. And, and he was despondent about the loss there. I know that we went to Mexico. I mean, he did. It didn't really shake out of that. But but that's what we thought we thought it was. You're sad. You lost the bowl game. Of course, you're sad. It's okay. It's okay to be sad. We'll be depressed. When did he get hit too hard in the Arizona Game? Did that chain thing. It's all speculative, because you really need data to make that to make those leaps. But it's very easy to sort of tie them together now. Right? order flow and a timeline. And trust me, if we knew for sure, we certainly tell everybody, but we're we're in the same Listen completely to this day Jay. wake up this morning. I still have no idea. I haven't I have I don't know what happened. I don't know why.
Chuck Shute :There was a one point in between the Arizona Game in the bowl game. I think there was a Utah game and his brother Kelly was there and talked to him after that game and and and Kelly kind of called him out on is a kind of being distant and and they had a really good talk and I think at that point, Kelly maybe thought things were better.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, I have a memory of that. He powder may have said to Kelly you're not bad. And I I don't know why I'm sad. And we didn't really know that are that they have that conversation until after it passes. You know, I look back to that time with et to our house in California after the bowl game we had about a week. We Before we left for Cabo, and he says, Hey, Bob, let's go shopping. And I'm gonna hang out with my California friends that I want to get some new clothes for Cabo and maybe bring some new clothes back to Washington. And so if I would buy new clothes, did he do shoes we were doing those kind of things. We were packing for our trip. You know, he was someone does something like that. You're absolutely not thinking. They don't want to be here tomorrow. Right. And that was the clothes but I think just the planning part at sizes. I was I was born I wake up every day and I was so calculated gone. Can't believe that at all. And then physical work visible that. Try not to be for the other two. But it's hard when you're here.
Chuck Shute :Yeah. So and I I didn't know this that he was his friend cJ demery he was a wide receiver at Wazzu he had actually opened up to Tyler about his own depression. In fact, Tyler would take him to counseling appointments.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah take them and he didn't have a car either with driving he loved the Big Island CJ were inseparable up there and would grow together when they were down in California. He did. Parents lives in San Diego, Carlsbad area, so they'd meet each other I remember going and taking a drive in Tyler with them to go meet see did they through at some park in Newport Beach and it must have been 1000 degrees or felt like it. You know, they they did. I was so I've never been so happy because Tyler you could just tell comfortable Tyler was around CJ. They They talk easily they got a lot. So, so that was that was CJ and CJ was his roommate on top of that, Tammy Kirkland. And so yes, so Tyler drove the day these appointments and we talked about it when we go out and tell stories on campus and stuff that you know, here's Tyler, he loves the day. He knows he do struggle a little bit in wanting to get things off his chest and counseling with health in a state you know, Tyler go get burgers or pizza or whatever, and they sit in the car after the appointment and talk about and so either understood, you know, understood that that was something people did when they needed to and knew where to go and right hey, you get the point. It might be good for me or whatever. But here's what I also know about pilot sieges. Mom died from cancer when he was very young, and that's what he was mostly taught. About a pilot and and that's the quote unquote legitimate reasons to go to a therapist. Mm hmm in Tyler, Tyler having uncontrollable difficult, depressed, anxious thoughts. Not based on Hey, my parents are fine. My brothers are great. I, I have money, I have food, I have school and I don't have any physical ailments, you know, I'm not injured all of that stuff. I end up knowing Tyler I'm sure that way. Like, why am I Why do I need help when this guy lost his mom when he was young? That makes sense, but doesn't make sense to me. And I think he I think he was suffering you know, in silence and not wanting to buddy because he didn't feel like he deserved it. Which is a load of crap, obviously. And that's what we're out talking about. Oh, but man, how do you miss it a family that that close that does so many things together. That why Isn't it you know, helicopter parents call it any names. We were there, you know, just the number of hours out of the day, spread out over a college career. We were there, nothing we had no, we had so much fun. we'd hang around. We'd love the craft craft. We love the sweet family. And so just sick and sad about that. We love being up there. And so yeah, if Tyler has something to say, and and I should say in high school, you know, you tell your kids this all the time. I don't care where you're at what the problem is, what you're doing. You call me. Say you need a ride home. No questions. We'll deal with it in the morning. Right? But that kind of I'm not going to yell and scream. I'm just going to come and get yet. Tyler used that one time, in height. And he was uncomfortable at some party, whatever. He said remember, he called his mom remember when he said it? Yeah, first went got him came on. And we talked a little bit, it was just he didn't like the people and he was uncomfortable there. So. So, our small history with Tyler was, he was good at that. Yeah, you know, he, he, if he felt uncomfortable, he wouldn't go. If he didn't like where he was that he extricate himself if he really needed help he called parents and we'd help them get out of it. So his, his history was one of, wow, this kid, kind of got it all not all figured out. But he's got it all together. He has the tools he's growing up. He's maturing. has some great people around him. What more can you ask his parents?
Chuck Shute :Yeah, no, I mean, and everyone always described him as as that was one thing. I when I did my research everyone was described him as happy and positive. And one phrase I kept hearing repeatedly was he lit up the room. I heard that from multiple people that said that
Mark Hilinski :It's true right? I mean he lit up the room our family was always there right if there was you know, any a little bit of a you know, an argument going on or each of us pushing each other not physically but you know upset with one another or something kind of pattern didn't like it and he made sure sort of calms everybody down made everybody make up if there was any kind of arguing or disappointment is so he was sort of that he just made everybody feel better. Family I mean yeah, we are the same thing check all the time. And it was the quarterback room and it was just a sense of happiness or ease or comfort. But when you push people about that ask them it was usually because Tyler Tyler sort of has this positive you know, uplifting quality so when he was with you guys are in a room, he would say All the negative energy out and all you're left with is just all these kind of happy thoughts and maybe Goofy, maybe fun, whatever, but you just felt more comfortable and Tyler was this room because things sort of always went in a positive way there. So then we push a little deeper and people said Tyler was always interested in me. I knew entire walks in the room, I would be able to see you know, maybe even subconsciously, but I knew I was going to be asked by Tyler how my day was what's going on me and our my parents of my sport, you know, that kind of stuff. And that was that was professors and students and teammates and roommates and friends and family members, that when you got together under this ridiculously sad You know, event after you pass, those are the stories we offer and and you're you tend to be more gracious when people I get that, but it's not even back if you factor all that out. If you're left with this kid made everybody else better made everybody else happier. Everybody wants to be around and they were never uncomfortable. And so it which is there's a lot of kids like that, right? Our parents love their kids, we're no different. But there is something very unique about the, the amount, the quantity of people the quantity of legitimate stories, not just miss remembering that Tyler was happy all the time. He wasn't happy. Of course, he has things that he dealt with, and problems that he had solved the thing. But his outwardly appearance to everybody else was always one of compassion, love kindness. He was kind you know, he just didn't have a lot of bad things to say about anybody. Wow. as competitive as he was, he still wouldn't go down the road of this guy's no good and this person can't help but I'm better than this. It never was about always about in football. Boys about the team excess. And that's it. I don't have to make it up now. That's how he was. He wanted everybody there to count on it. He wanted, that he wanted everybody on his team to know that he was going to do everything he could to make those games and their lives better. And I, you know, I think he did it for 21 years.
Chuck Shute :So let's walk through I know, this is gonna be difficult, but let's walk through the end of what happened. So, you know, I'm trying to do some of the research here and, and piecing it together myself. And there's a lot of stuff that I learned in hearing these interviews. So basically what happened is he went out this is after, you know, he's been kind of somber, like you guys had said, He's been a little bit more distant, but he went shooting with some teammates, and it seems sounded like everything was fine during that time when they went shooting, but then he later stole one of the guns and how long did he hold on to it? Was it several days because the gun was missing? And they were asking me Hey, does anyone have this gun? Where is it? They didn't nobody knew where it was right
Mark Hilinski :well that's sort of BS about all this right so what Yeah, all that actually practically went up there and that guy that he really like, paid for and few others that hey, we're going to go out and shoot shotguns and places. rather's gonna throw stuff up in the air, too. So keep in mind pilots never held a firearm never shot a loaded weapon. never had any training never had any interest in hunting or marksmanship of any kind. He goes he went out with them. They all said he couldn't shoot you know, the ground. That bad at it. And and in that bag. way I understand it is they had a bag that duffel bag full of shotguns themselves and at the bottom of the bag was they also had one kid had an AR 15 and live ammunition there. They didn't Shoot that out there. And they all say, they were done. They put the bag back in the car, they go back to the apartment. Tyler went back to his apartment. This is where it gets a little confusing. Tyler was moving in with these guys that weekend. So we had technically had his old apartment that CJ and Kirkland had moved out. And he had keys to that. And he also had the new apartment that he was moving into. So when he came back, we came back from Mexico. He went to the new apartment, put all the stuff in there, you know, his clothes that his mom and I watched in Mexico, that's all he had an apartment. And that's where the guns were. But when they left somehow, Tyler managed to take the AR 15 and some live ammunition back to the old apartment, and he hit it in the outdoor storage Eric authority closet, the closet off the balcony closet.
Chuck Shute :Didn't they find a bullet hole in the car or something? Like did they figure out what that was at and he accidentally shot it. Maybe
Mark Hilinski :that's what they say. There. There was. It was in the driver's side door, as it was. Yeah. They think it might have been an accident that he was kicking it out of the car. I mean, this is this is ar 15 I'm not gonna pay for it. It's a high deductible. Loud, you know, machine right. He had that gun for three days before he used it to kill himself. Now. We are taught to say the same thing. We're not anti gun we're not we have no problem with anybody doing anything that they need to do. Except please do it responsibly if this gun had been triggered off if this gun had been locked in In a case like most responsible gun owners bad, there's zero chance, Pilar would have been able to use it to hurt himself. There's also research check that says when when suicide attempters fail using a firearm, they're the least likely group to then try another method meeting. Well, he did you know, the gun didn't fire so he jumped off the building. There's not a lot of research data that shows that accurate. And so it's hard to sit here without getting more and more upset and angry about the fact that those gun weren't properly taken care of on Washington State campus is very clear in student housing you're supposed to, it's illegal to have those first of all, that's supposed to be stored at the police station, and you can check them out 24 hours a day. And lastly, they should be trigger locked or cakewalk at whatever time Several hours after they got back from shooting, they called Tyler. We don't know where Tyler was at the time. He wasn't with them. And they said, we're missing the AR 15. Did you see it? No. Tyler went over there and they looked for two hours through the new apartment. Obviously Tyler knew where it was, looked and looked and looked and couldn't believe it. So, if you're missing an AR 15 and live ammunition, please report it stolen when you can't find it after four or five hours. That's not worth it. Right? If I had police, interviewing Tyler breaking him down, breaking the guy down where did it go looking through, you know, the the old department seeing what a disaster that was that we could have put some of this stuff together. What it could have said again on that bill, it's still an important point to know going forward for other people.
Chuck Shute :Absolutely. So then he texted I don't know if he if he texted anyone else by now. He texted his high school girlfriend and he just said I'm sorry. Sorry for everything was she she must have been confused by that right or was there more of the conversation?
Mark Hilinski :No. I mean, I kind of know why that happened. He hasn't dated her for a few years, mostly authors. He was a sophomore to wait graduated to a year or two when he was at Washington state at the bowl game at San Diego. Just you know, before not even a month, just a few weeks before he passed. She came down there to see him. And the title was also dating another girl the same time. And the Friends of this other girl that was a volleyball player at the Washington State. Texas girlfriend and Ted tottered former girlfriend down here. Oh my gosh. So that led to a little bit of confrontation and I think Tyler so bad that you know, he hurt his old girlfriend's filling in his current girlfriend filling by by seeing his old girlfriend and basically they just went out to dinner at Spaghetti Factory, San Diego. So I think, you know, he wanted to all just hurry, he felt bad so he did texture that so we had been texting Tyler from the time that he left Mexico until just the day that he died. You know, we we were texting about mom weekend and the concept of what's going to happen and I was going to be up there just a few weeks later from off we get up a Pullman and talking about his food and we went back and forth. You know, just let me just get you Movers. Tyler. No mom, 21 years old. You know, I could move myself out of my apartment into you know, my new apartment and you know, he Texas's brothers the night before he died. He was playing video games with both Kelly and Ryan Kelly in Utah. Were going to school. Ryan at home with us. In California, and Tyler up in Washington, you know, less than 10 hours later he was gone.
Chuck Shute :Yeah. So and then they when they first called you, your initial reaction was maybe it was a car wreck because they just said he was missing. They didn't know what happened. And you guys thought it was maybe a car accident because he was a bad driver.
Mark Hilinski :And I was always worried about driving. I mean, the weather's terrible up there. And most of the time, the roads are slick and slippery. He wasn't a great driver, meaning he was a conscientious driver, but he you know, he bumped into things here and there not cause major accident. He just sort of, you know, was a little bit less than diligent when it came to parking his car and that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's unclear to Bill what anybody knew when they called but they they said they did Pilar admits practice in the morning. And the guys are out looking for him because they couldn't find it. This car wasn't an apartment. They knocked on the door. He didn't answer, you know, whatever. And, you know, the guys ended up breaking down the door before the cops came and found Tyler in the closet so
Chuck Shute :so he shot himself with the assault rifle that he'd stolen. And then the coach called you and said Tyler's no longer with us and Kim, you couldn't breathe and Mark he didn't want to believe it.
Unknown Speaker :It was called
Unknown Speaker :Kotaku
Mark Hilinski :for the first time to say that I was missing and they were putting out a missing persons report. And what first thing we did is we sort of just put mark in a car and got straight to the airport because we thought they're gonna find Tyler and one of us to be there when they find out or whatever it was, whatever his accident. Something happened. I wanted to be there. So Mark was out the air. And I sit back at home with Ryan is going away by the phone. And we I got that the second call might as a third call from from Kota and well I didn't even know why he was no longer with us. So we didn't know at that point what happened yesterday with dad. And I'm not sure how Kelly found I I can't remember it was on Kelly was calling his friend. And I don't know which one one of them hold them. And then I was waiting for the flight. You know, I panicked Of course I didn't want to get on a bike because I didn't want to be I didn't want to be in a position where I could know of happening. And but as I was waiting for the fight, and Kelly call me or text me and he just said Dad, and you know, I immediately knew that it was bad. And so I called them and he was he was upset and he was telling me what happened. Then I called Kim. Well, Ryan was texting me the whole time it saying please come home, please come home. And I said I, I will. And then I talked to Kim, who for a minute, just said, Oh, Kelly doesn't know for sure mark. He's, he's getting bad information. And he's jumping to conclusions and stuff and, and it's through me because for a little bit, I had just a little bit of hope. But I knew what Kelly said too. So I raced outside. I got in the park pilot Ryan called me and I got home and I think, you know, talk about later Kim was just in denial. He just didn't want to believe it. By the time I got there, too. I'm breathing with her. We got her some health and stuff, but yeah, validator ever.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, I mean, I think that would be my initial reaction to just from you know, what we've talked about and what kind of kid he He was, you just wouldn't believe that you wouldn't want to believe that something like that is true.
Mark Hilinski :No, I mean, delete it. So many people would remember talking to you right away. And he said, Are you sure somebody didn't tell him? You know, like, there's no way and and it you know, at one point you go through a lot of bad things and your son's gone. Secondary is how he's right. Yeah. Doctor, he's gone the worst news and then then he died and then the only hurt from the corner. I got a call late that night. And we did. She said that the coroner said that he left the note and we have it here. So we kind of thought, Oh, my God, at least we're going to find out something and we've never we won't we have we have released what it says but it didn't. It wasn't a dear dad. Mom. Here's what happened. That's why I have to go no at all. And it wasn't you There was no information about you know, specifics. Nothing. So it was free work. I mean, there there wasn't. There wasn't much information in it. And we've never actually seen it. It's still in the field. Still envelopes that we got by FedEx from the police department. The coroner's report is still in there to their photos and narrative safety deposit box. We've never opened it. We've never seen it. We probably never will.
Chuck Shute :And then they did an autopsy later of the Mayo Clinic and they said that he had stage one CTE, they said that the medical examiner said the of the brain of a 65 year old.
Mark Hilinski :No, so Okay.
Kym Hilinski :Mark a little bit what happened was is what were in the corner. The funeral home.
Mark Hilinski :We were talking about what happened they said that they got a call For the Mayo Clinic and the Mayo Clinic app if they could have popped his brain to do an autopsy. And you know, we're not at that point we are, yeah, you know, foggy, everything's blurry. But I do remember Mark and I looking at each other and said, yes, absolutely, please. Well, we were also getting requests. Tyler was a donor. And the only only thing he could donate was other cornea. And so we were getting those calls. I'm not exactly I can't remember exactly. They weren't courtesy calls but we still had the we had the consent. I don't know. I don't know why. Maybe it was how he died or something. But we gave that and some lucky person was able to use this morning. decorator that Yeah, probably 2526 hours from the Washington State area. He has won a toddler Korea. But I think we got we got that call before we even went up the folders because it was an immediate thing. So we had already agreed to donate totters by the Mayo Clinic and actually that request came in. We were at the funeral.
Chuck Shute :Yeah. And then you didn't find the phone for six or seven months. And then when you found it, you thought there'd be again, you're trying to figure out why I thought it'd be some clues, but there really wasn't much on the phone, right? He didn't look up depression or suicide or anxiety. He just looked up how to load an AR 15 how to clean it. And that kind of stuff. Right?
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, I mean, the other the other part, you know, he. So we have we have an iPad, we have a computer at that point we didn't have and there's still I mean, there's, you know, what is 50 gigabyte of information on there, we have to tear you know, these big, hard drives that we can access and there's links to deleted text Links to deleted videos and pictures and things like that. And, you know, it's very difficult to move through that information on the best days. And it's impossible on most days. So we've gone through, we've gone through the more recent history to get a sense that he didn't use that phone to look that information up for sure. ears. There were some other things right around the time he died. And then but as I say, and I think we've said obviously that it was only a few hours before he actually died that he, he looked at how to use it, love it, how to position it without hurting anybody else and things like that, but one one, so I just gave the talk to the elite 11 quarterbacks down in Nashville. This year a couple days ago. I told him the story. It's close to a note I think is Kim and I get which is teaching you know Tyler's like every other 21 year old he didn't really keep track of passwords use the same ones over and over again. He is one of them online you know are are all zeros or all threes or whatever and and some other ones that we knew his girlfriend knew and his brothers knew his teammates and roommates knew we tried a couple of those before we had the phone celebrate helped us unlock the phone. And and that's a really long arduous process to run algorithms again, basically six digits until it cracks until it's break. So when I got the phone back, the actual numbers that you use to unlock Tyler's phone, were on a sticky note pressed on top of the phone. And when you look at those numbers, they don't look like anything. I mean, Kim and I looked at it over and over my sister or whatever it everybody looked at on that until It didn't make any sense. There's never any part of his sort of password set that we've been used to. They look like random numbers until Kim and Christine and they called me, but figured out that the only real word that makes sense that correlates to those numbers and the words sorry. If you type sorry, and it's five letters, and then you add an extra y or or a nine or you know, whatever, but that's, that's it. That's it. And it was chant, you know, you can look at the the make metadata in the phone. It was changed. It was changed before before he got right. Yeah, I mean, obviously, but not not a year before. Right. relatively early. He hid his phone in in the apartment, and it gets beheaded. opted in to be the floor heater. Yep, and just drop it right in the back of that phone was in that little pocket where you put your driver's license, our full ID. So it was found until it was that summer. And I I got a call for the police department. And they said the individuals that just moved into Potter's apartment
Unknown Speaker :downtown her phone, they were actually sitting on the couch.
Mark Hilinski :And they looked over they call something kind of shiny and lower heater. Today, they reached into it and they pulled out our phone app to try to contact me through Twitter or Facebook that I'm terrible at checking those messages. So they ended up giving it to the police department which was a good thing because the plants they've tried to see if there was any information on there, they can retrieve and maybe what helps us figure out what happened and they they did it and we were up employment just a few weeks later for a game where they honored Tyler and re The family was asked to raise the flag, which is a tradition as a home football game. So we got the phone while we were there and everything that Mark was talking about what transpired after we got the phone getting it celebrate getting it to an attorney who reviewed the phone for all the words that we thought you know, would come up and and mark this, but if you think you're deleting something, you're really not so like every Snapchat we learned every single search that you've ever done is there even if you think you've deleted it, it's still there. So we we thought all the information that that was on Patrick's phone and it and it really did help us piece together. What was going Going on the days before.
Chuck Shute :Right What I think Marcus said before is that he just didn't want to, like bother anybody with his own pain and depression and anxiety, you know, in a weird way because obviously this has caused a lot of pain but in his mind he was I think he was your youth, you thought he was thinking that he just wanted to, you know, get away from from it all and just not bother anybody by you know, calling someone up and saying, Hey, I'm depressed I need to talk.
Mark Hilinski :Right? You know, and so we were depressed right market are unbelievably fast. You know, his brothers are, are really sad. But we've sort of come to realize that it what we've done with it. So for the last couple of years, it's talked to so many different medical health professionals that yes, we were depressed. But we're not really physically ill. We're not to that point where our mentally ill we're not at that point. We'll take our own I can't imagine what what Tyler anybody feels like. Right? We're visible.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, cuz Mark said that you had a hard time getting out of bed, which I can imagine how now it's been a couple years. How often I mean, you talk about Tyler all the time, you've got Helen's keys, hope but how often do you still think about Tyler? Like, can you go to a movie and watch a two hour movie and not think about him? Or is he just always got? No.
Mark Hilinski :You know, every in every, every sort of waking moment, you know, it's not that we sit there and stare out the window and just think of him but it can be part of that, you know, it can be pot you're talking to Ryan. He You know, he had a good practice, you know, through well, that I do, you know, you know how you do this or that, yeah, do this or that, you know, see some of those kind of conversations, but There's, there's for sure than an hour. You know, even if you're really into whatever it is you need to finish like a presentation on the boat, preparing for this podcast, whatever you read, I can't get past four or five minutes. And without thinking about him about wishing he was here certainly. Maybe maybe the bigger question. I push it away until late at night where what really happened? What was he thinking? What was his last few weeks? Like, you know, this, this, wasn't it. So, I'm sure there's a lot of research out there. There's a lot of imperfect science, but there's a lot of really smart people working on these questions and problems, but the reality is, it wasn't impulsive in the sense. He had the weapon he used to kill himself for more than, you know, he didn't go home, figure out how to use it and use it right He went home, he put it somewhere else out of sight. He went to football practice, excuse me, played video games with his friends and brothers. He went out to eat with a with a girlfriend, he, you know that he did all these other things for a few days and then then went back and and ended his life. So it's it's hard it's part that part doesn't leave your thoughts very often. Very fast. So right
Chuck Shute :on while this is going on going back to Ryan, your other son you guys had to do an SEC road trip and I must say that was obviously really hard but Ryan threw his first touchdown at South Carolina. He broke down and cried. Right and that was the first time that he had cried through this whole thing.
Mark Hilinski :It was actually his first touchdown in high school. So
Unknown Speaker :it's first down
Mark Hilinski :I was in high school. Yeah, ever died. January of Brian's junior year. So spring football and that that was the you know, the seven on seven football and then the actual, you know, tackle football that starts late August. And he I pretty sure maybe Brian has cried. I know it's very sad but he Ryan describes it as he never truly broke down. So after he threw that test, and he did it right there on the football field and you see a sort of break. And I, I think I mean, keeping all of that and keeping those emotions there, I know was a good path, but that's how he dealt with it. And that's one of the things we learned as we went through therapy together and individually is that we all grieve differently. There's really no right or wrong way to grieve and that all right grief. You kept it in, and then finally, keep it
Chuck Shute :on and he's even said that he's opened up his direct messages to anybody that's struggling. Has he gotten a lot of messages or people reaching out?
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, we worry about that, too. We did know that he had done now. We found out I think it's a wonderful thing that he does that and I did a lot of people reach out to a lot of people reach out to us through him. But, you know, we do worry that you take on too much. But that's, that's the path of least China's it's Ryan's way of doing what he wish somebody had done for Tyler. If, you know, Ryan's a therapist, he's a bad kid that lost his brother is trying to figure out his way of life. But I know his thinking is well If no if I'm the only person somebody you know, has left the call, I don't want to say no to that. And, and have some, you know, terrible happens. So yeah, it the other sad part, of course is it's not always taken, you know, it's not everybody that in trouble actually ask for help obviously some people may use his generosity that way against them a little bit too. And so you have to be you have to be cautious about all that stuff. But he's, I think he's doing the best he can with it.
Chuck Shute :Yeah. So this is the good part is that you guys formed Helen's keys hope, Kim and Kelly you guys come up with a name. And the goal is to kind of drive down the stigma of mental health so that people can reach out and ask for help. Because I think mental illness and depression is it's a lot more common than people think not only in young people but also collegiate athletics which that's I didn't know that. So Suicide is the second leading cause of death among college students, which is crazy to me.
Mark Hilinski :We didn't know it either. We didn't know that we've learned he died last night, we have to
Unknown Speaker :strengthen
Mark Hilinski :the one on one athletes at damn work that was out of Oregon State and we hope this virtual mental health conference and they're 100 something to Napoli with four student athletes in this conference. And you know, I did, I really did realize that so many of them are struggling to have so much pressure on them. They're such a grind. And you know, they had to do well on the field or on the court. They've got to do well in the classroom, and they've got to maintain good grades and friendships and their family. As you look at to NASA. You can go They have it all right. But what they do have, they say they do have a work full time, sport they love. But I also think there are a lot of there are a lot of pressure, pressure and a lot of stress. You know, I think you, we did really there's three parts to that. So let's do admission. Mm hmm. Stigma reduction is a big part of it. But awareness and what we're talking about right now. But the awareness piece is staggering, because as you just you know, as you did your research, and we certainly have that are. Those numbers are unbelievable. And the third part of the mission is to build programs that that can help these guys and we use a couple of speakers in this regard. One of them his name is Rob de veau. He wrote the book called behind happy faces as a terrific TED talk on set He's a, he's a bipolar suicide survivor, that it has really done amazing things. But he has this very important sort of concept that he does really well talk to the kids about. And, and that is, you know, we can all be sad, right? We're all if you lose a game you break up with a girlfriend. Of course, it's natural to be sad. But there's a difference between that, like Kim's describing, we're incredibly sad, maybe even mildly depressed. But there's a big difference between that and clinical depression which is been described by those that suffer from it as having a literal 800 pound gorilla, you know, or elephant sitting on your chest. You can't breathe, you can't move. You can't think you can't eat. And it comes in waves. And, you know, in sports, you're used to physical injury. If you tear an ACL it hurts like Alright, then it feels a little better and sick. hours you go have surgery in a week, and you rehab it from a year, six months to a year, there's a course everybody responds to depression, anxiety, clinical diagnoseable depression in a different way. And some of that is treated with medicine, some of it through therapy, most of it through both. But when your brain is the thing that's broken, or the thing under attack, it's hard to have those people that are suffering, understand it enough to even ask for help. And if you have stigma that's weighing in on it, like I don't know what my coaches will think, or my parents or my friend, and you're not aware that this can really spin out of control into a life threatening position for you or others you hurt, self harm and other harm is is very real as well. That's why I think it's so important and we don't know any we're not we're not mental health. practitioners, but that all we've done now for two and a half years is, is be in this space with these, you know, these really smart, talented people who are really trying to work out a profit, extremely difficult complex, much more so than orthopedic injury, not that you know, not to put those down, those are all very real. Wouldn't for a moment say that. But this thing is, is a level of, you know, an order of magnitude difference, at least from solving it. And, and that's, that's sort of the difficulty here. But it makes the impact of awareness and stigma reduction and program building and so forth, that much more impactful because it's so desperately needed.
Chuck Shute :Right? And one way I think it's similar to other physical ailments is what I heard somebody say a doctor about it is that you know, if you're having those suicidal thoughts and it's feels so you know, heavy like you said, The 800 pound gorilla that, you know you need to go to the hospital, you know, if you can't breathe or your chest you having chest pains, you go to the doctor, you go to the hospital, it's emergency. It's the same way. If you're having those heavy suicidal thoughts, or it's taking over, you've got to go to the hospital.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah. Well, you just said it. And you know, you can only imagine what those responses are, right? The hospital deals with life and death stuff, right? The emergency room, you show up and say, This is what I'm feeling like somebody walks in and goes, Oh, you're having a panic attack, you'll be fine. You know, the condescending ways of and this coming from an educated medical professional, although likely not I'd like psychologists trained in you know, suicide. Right. So and again, it's not picking on anybody this is this is a societal response to it has been for so long. We're just trying to shake, shake up. We're trying to delineate there's a path People feel absolutely okay to ask for help. And guess what, I hope they're wrong. And they don't need treatment and medication. But I'd certainly rather be right about that than wrong about thinking somebody needed help and died by suicide later that it's just, it's the stakes are way too high.
Chuck Shute :Exactly. Yeah. So tell me more about some of the stuff you're doing. Now you have the United podcast which has conversations with or conversations for student athletes, with psychologists and mental health professionals. And then there's the in conjunction with the world mental illness Awareness Week, you guys are doing this three day thing where the college football teams are going to wear a green ribbon on the back of their football helmet, with a goal to increase resources devoted to mental fitness, decrease the stigma and honor the victims of mental illness such as Tyler, right?
Mark Hilinski :Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for doing so much. retry. Yeah, no, it It's the best we've ever come across. So
Kym Hilinski :we started the United I'll go into that real quick because here's what we're doing. We're taking probably one or two trips a week before COVID. And the self-quarantine thing started. And it's our last trip to California. That was mid March. And we went out there for two different things that got canceled while we were there. And so we flew home and every single trip every single visit that we have planned over the next three, four months cancel and and rightly so, right. So we thought, right, we we still need to be there for our student athletes. What can we do? They're all sent home, they're full with their families, and maybe those are great situations. And we know that people actually are struggling more with their mental health right now, because they do Napoli's there. They're not playing their sport their senior season or their season got taken away from them. So we decided to, to take on these podcasts and and we're so fortunate to have everybody calls it a rock star but she's a sports psychologist battable. net, and she is the host of the podcast. And she started out doing I think three podcasts a week as it assesses a lot to do so now it's down to two weeks, they come out Tuesdays and Fridays. There's a mental health professional that takes on you know, what, probably most of Napoli's are dealing with a range of different things during the warranty and missing their season. And then she talks to student athletes abilities, Fridays, about their personal experiences and how COVID has affected them. So we're so fortunate to have Sophie Nicholson do these podcasts And the producer, gram dirty that that produces them. And so we still thought, okay, we're going to so you know, go back start traveling again. But there's, there's got to be more and that's how we came up with 3d.
Mark Hilinski :So, so it's funny, you sort of said it the right way. There's a day, you know, there's a day for everything. And world Mental Health Day is actually October 10 2020 this year. Mm hmm. And we were playing around, you know, as a group, try, what can we do? You know, it's a Saturday, there's gonna, you know, obviously, if there's football in the fall, that there'll be something to do there. And last year, what we did is we heard it... and by the way, Chuck, a lot of these great ideas are not they don't come just from Kym and I, they come from all of the people that support us and the people that know about this, and it's, frankly, it's the best way to get them some time. Right. Yeah, a cheerleader, a cheerleader and a fan out a conversation on social media about Wouldn't it be cool if we held up three fingers to celebrate Tyler? Or you know Ryan where's the number three too so at the game Let's do that. What if we did that and that week, that thing spun up so quickly we supported it. And it turned out to be three and what sort of everything gets called something right. So three in the third and the so after the halftime kickoff before the offense takes the field, or as they take the field to stand the fans in the fans stand up, hold up three fingers in silence.... Which is sometimes preceded by a PSA that's played over the, you know, the jumbotron and stuff in the stadium sometimes not. But it's there to let the student athletes, the coaches, the fans all know Yes, it's honoring Tyler, because It's number three in some sense. But it's really there to say we're here for you, we get it, we get it's cheap, it cost nothing. It takes very little time. Everybody can do it. And some of the great feedback we got after that was, you know, a fireman has been taken his 11 year old son to games for 10 years, you know, since he was 10 before he could walk, ask them what does that mean? And they talked about mental health and mental illness and what happened to Tyler and conversation that that particular person and many, many others might not be able to have or have a reason to have. And so they were thankful, you know, things like that. So that that happened last year, and I can tell you personally, Tim's heard this before but standing in that stadium will not happen. For whatever reason, our ticket, you know, for the parents are on the visitor sideline, and my eyes were drawn to coach Nick Saban... he was the first guy Standing up there with three fingers.... I don't know Coach (Saban). Well, Kim's met him on camp tours and stuff. But I didn't. You don't have to. You know that's the kind of leadership right there. So he's in a competitive environment. He's away. He's supporting student athletes how much better to get our guy back, Coach Muschamp and often his staff and our ad Ray Tanner, all in there. Absolutely. 100% for the kids. So anyway, so three days, what else can we do on the test? Everything has a story, but I'll try to speed up Ryan gets a video sent to him he gets a lot of but he got a video sent to me sent to me. And there's a there's a Canadian young man named Noah Whalen, who put this video together that we're using now as a promotional video with some edits and changes and stuff. And he he thought wouldn't it be cool to put a three on put a number three You know, just for that weekend and celebrate Mental Health Week and so forth. And so after a lot of, you know, discussion and moving around and so forth, we changed it to the ribbon, which which is the symbol for mental health, you know, like, is for cancer awareness, we settled on the ribbon because we thought more people could could join in and, you know, you just have the number three, that number may mean a lot of different things for your team and your players. So that that was a... We thought, okay, wouldn't that be terrific for this one game. And so we did this, Chuck, we just basically declared that it's going to be college football, Mental Health Week. And here's, here's what we're going to be doing. We're going to help build the PSAs, we're going to send out these stickers for all the teams that want to participate. And certainly when we get back to campus, we'll help these these schools that want our help build additional programming for the student athletes. And I think it's so great, right? We've the Jen Lotta- college football game day. And one of the reporters there, she did the voiceover for this for this video. It's 90 seconds. It's just it's beautifully. Yeah. And so with that, thank you for asking that, that we're really looking forward to that because we've got half of you know, I don't know, we've got 10 teams- BYU almost all the SEC, Middle Tennessee State. And and you know, we're working our way West, we just sent out invites to all the PAC 12 and, you know, we're hopeful for for a big a big contingency on three day which for us, and I think it'll be I think it'll be good.
Chuck Shute :That's great. And then you guys also recently got an award the Stuart Scott inspire award.
Mark Hilinski :Yeah, that's, that's, you know, it's a tough one around here because getting an award because your son died by suicide is not an award anybody wants. Right? But we, we understand enough that it's for the effort put into, you know, using sports and helping sport and and being passionate about and really doing something and trying to do something with their student athletes and we greatly appreciate that ESPN themselves have have done a number of things including creating what I think is the ultimate you know, story on Hilinksi' Hope when they when they started it and they released Hilinski's Hope on E-60 so we're very grateful and Stuart Scott, you know, we told this to them when they found out that "Boo-Yeah" you know, one of Stuart Scott's favorites...
Chuck Shute :Yeah.
Mark Hilinski :Is that Tyler had "Boo-Yeah" he had. He had a bunch of little nicknames but he followed it religiously. Right. He will look for His nickname was Sports Center when he was in baseball. And he always had a knack for this kind of fun place to watch. So it's such a such a wonderful kind of acknowledgement. And I think Kym said it one of our newsletters here recently that it's really an award for all of us. You know, it's not just the whole family. It's all the people that have supported us. And, you know, before Tyler died after he died, and in our efforts to try to help other student athletes avoid suffering in silence. So we humbly accept it. And yeah, it was a nice honor to receive. We trade it all for
Chuck Shute :sure. Yeah. But I mean, you're doing such great work and you're saving lives and you're really changing things. And like you said, I mean, it's really a generational thing. I don't think this is something that's going to change overnight. It's going to take a whole generation, but now all these young kids are learning about mental illness. And the stigma is being reduced. What message do you have for anybody out there listening who may they themselves may be suffering from depression or anxiety or somebody they love, or they know is suffering? What steps would you recommend they take or what message you have for those people?
Mark Hilinski :Just put on a sweatshirt right now and it's actually a united sweatshirt conversation to student athletes and then the microphone of a sweatshirt it says, speak up. I think that is, that is what I would tell the person that is suffering. That's what I tell the person that thinks that maybe a family or a friend is struggling, speak up, you know, talk, share, don't be afraid. You're You're so worth it and you're so loved. And you matter so much to everybody in your life that you have to take care of your mental health. We say it all the time to take care of your physical How? Yeah, it's just so extremely important. I would only add tech I think along the same lines, you know, you've probably done it. We've all done it. You go to the doctor when you got to be for Coronavirus, you get the flu or you're not feeling well, and you show up and they go, Wow, you've got a virus. There's Yeah, but can I get antibiotics to treat it? Yeah, I can give you them but they're not real. They're not designed to help on that, you know, and you leave with with sort of drink hot water, you know, or drink water, drink some soup if you can keep it down. Right. That's that. That's and, and I used to be, and still kind of feel like, I'm not going to get any better that way. Right. And so I think often what Tim just said, speaking about it, talking about it, asking for help, not letting it just not hoping it'll weigh Oh, it'll get better because these things as we understand cycle, you know, you, you have good days and bad days and your good days you think it's gonna be okay. But then your bad days, you're not in a great position to ask for help. So, so get it early and talk about it. The research is pretty clear, you can't cause somebody to die by suicide. You know, there was one case in Texas where the girlfriend kept telling the kid over the phone to do it to do it to do it. And that's a unique circumstance and I'm not referring to that. But in general, are you feeling okay, do you have any plans if they're talking about suicide? Right, have you made a plan? And and there's, there's some training that's very readily available all over the internet that is, you know, reasonably good. I would recommend go to Nami, you know, to their website, they have some, some incredible resources.
Chuck Shute :I'll put that link,
Mark Hilinski :please. But the important part, I think it can't be overstated. Don't Hope it don't Hope it's gonna go away. Right? Do something about it and it's talking about is the only thing you do. That's okay. Because that could ultimately be the most powerful thing. It could encourage them. Don't put them down. Don't snicker. Treat it like anything else that you're concerned about knowing nobody dies from an ACL, or maybe they haven't scripted. But they but this could end up that 125 a day is happening and at 21 years old, it is 10 to 25 years old. There's no there's absolutely no good reason for to zero. It. Everything else is solvable. Yeah.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, I agree. And I think talking about it is such an important step. Because it's actually a myth that talking about it could cause somebody to do it. It's actually better to bring it up and talk about it. It's you're not going to give them the idea. I think that was kind of a big myth that I learned People were afraid. Well, if I say if I bring up suicide, maybe they hadn't thought about that, maybe now they'll think about it. But no, if people are depressed and suicidal, they've definitely already thought about it. So you're not doing anything harm by actually asking them.
Mark Hilinski :But that's super important. You're exactly right. That's good advice for everybody. There's a lot, you know, in stigma, there's a lot of like that, right, that, that it's important to get to, you know, we run in a new cycle a minute around, you know, here and with different things. And is it true or not true, but factually, it get those answers. There's not you don't need a lot of them. But one you just described that you can't cause somebody to want to go die by suicide. And the words matter I mean, Kim and I, we don't say committed suicide. If you don't commit cancer, you don't commit ALS. You don't commit a variety of diseases. And you certainly don't can suicide, it's the way you, you you die. Commit goes way back to when it was illegal actually to die by suicide. And so those kind of words are, you know, we're trying to, to learn as we go along, and trying to bring it as little pain to the process as we do it as we're learning. But I think, you know, as you described, there's a lot of myths around mental illness for sure. And it's important to tell stories like Tyler, where there really aren't a lot of good answers, but the circumstances are very different than what most people think mental illness or suicide looks like.
Chuck Shute :Yeah, you just never know it really can't affect anyone. I mean, I was a guidance counselor for 17 years. So I work with kids middle school and high school and you'd be surprised at how many kids felt this way that you would have never picked them out from a lineup. I mean, people always think it's the kids You know, the emo kids that were, you know, the gods or whatever you call them wearing the school, t shirts and things like that. And yes, sometimes that that's true, but a lot of times it's a kid that you would never expect is feeling that way. And I've had a lot of those kinds of conversations. And so I think just having those conversations, and if you're ever if there's ever a doubt, you know, just ask, like, like we said, speak up, talk to the person, ask them how they're doing.
Mark Hilinski :So right. Yeah, right. In Tyler was was, we think got very adept at sort of putting us off the sentence, you know, and oh, no, I'm good. I'm everything. And then when you find out afterwards, that he never moved out of his apartment, you know, he's convinced his mom that everything got and when we got there, not not only was he dead, but his entire apartment
Unknown Speaker :hadn't been touched.
Mark Hilinski :You know, there was nothing back. So he was he was having a problem even dealing with getting out of that. I mean, you're talking about fast food. pizza boxes stuff stacked up. And you know, this is college so it's gonna be messy. But Tyler wasn't particularly messy. But all this stuff he just, he was at a point. We think that he couldn't, he just couldn't get anything done. And I think no Tyler compounded so rapidly. He always felt guilty if he if he didn't do his best or didn't, you know, didn't come home with the right you know, the grid, you know, grades or results or whatever. Not that that was a family thing. It was just how Tyler was. He always felt like he had to be the best and do the best and the fact that he told his mom, you know, I'm 21 I can move out of my apartment I needed to send anybody to do it. Make sense to me from Tyler's perspective, then seeing his apartment completely untouched. Badly also makes me think how much he was suffering. In what he was suffering with, and from and you can only imagine you talk to us too long now we would walk or jog whatever, in a split second for any one of these little tiny reasons had we thought, but if I described Tyler, you know, to you six months before he died and then also added on I'm going to run up there and haven't committed to you know, have a psychiatric exam because I'm worried about taking but you wouldn't believe me because there that wasn't the case. That wasn't the data that wasn't what he was putting forth is a little fat is a little different. Karen's around us go you've got you're the luckiest people on the planet. You talk to your kids all the time. I haven't talked to my son in 30 days, you know, in a in a conversational way. You wouldn't ever think this, but let me tell you obviously, we should have right we should We should have or we were at least at a point where it's telling us that other people can have that option that we didn't have, which was to jump in and try to do something about it. And you're right. You don't always know what you don't know.
Chuck Shute :No, I think I mean, like I said, I worked in the school 17 years. So I work with a lot of parents. You guys are really good parents. I can tell. You really cared about all three of your sons and you're doing amazing work right now. And I think that you, you shouldn't, you know, feel guilty about taking these awards. I mean, I think it's amazing stuff. You could save lives. So I just hope I just worry about you too, that you guys are doing okay. How are you doing now? It's been a couple years. It sounds like it's still very tough for you.
Mark Hilinski :It is we moving from California to South Carolina. I don't know if it was good for us, but it would have been. We talked about this as a family it probably would have been too hard to because Ryan almost had every tactful walk where I say it a bit too hard. Watch, you know Ryan's playing the PAC 12. And that one wouldn't have been fair to Ryan, you know, he needs to enjoy his college football experience. And so having to play the FCC has been good if that's the right word. It's been good for all of us to just, you know, lift up our roots and try to settle down here and Carolina. We love the town that we raise the kids in. And for some people, like I said, we all grieve differently, but stay in the house that we raised Tyler and I couldn't done it. I didn't even walk back into the house. We just sold the house quickly. And you know, moved out here. So we just sort of, it's not like we take one day at a time because there has been planning, but we don't. We don't wake up each day. In fact, certain things. We make it through each day and we're fortunate or we work hard at it. We're doing it together. Maybe we're not always on the same timeline, maybe Mark sad when I'm still going a little bit better. But we're doing together. You know Ryan's here he's downstairs, even though they're back to football and he's not back to class yet but he's decided to continue to stay with us. It's a little bit more of a drive to get to campus. It's about 20 minutes, but I think us being close to Ryan having us here in Carolina has has been good and necessary for Ryan too. And I think you know, Kelly moved here as well. So you know, we're all in the south of the state we'd never thought we'd be asked but people are good here to us and they're kind and David brace us and that we're being open check with you. I mean, we're not when we go downstairs and we watch a movie with Ryan or we go out. We don't go out to eat I guess. We go get you know, get When we go out on the boat, for example and stuff, it's not just, you know, shrug shoulders and limp bodies, you know, for us, it's, we don't do that. I mean, we, we, we've learned how to do it better. I think that we spend so much time on Home Depot, Kim does even more so that we have two other kids that need us, right? Or they don't need us as much as they want us to be around. So we have to be present for that. And we have to, you know, think through all those things. So we're being very honest about how we think and feel, but we, we try the best we can and we appreciate your concern, how to how to manage through it without, you know, without ignoring. I think we have to take our own advice on that. Right. Yeah. Make sure that we're checking in with each other, and so forth, but But yeah, we're I mean, we're, I think we're doing the best we can and COVID didn't help In, right racial inequality, unrest, long path, do you know none of those things make anything easier, but we're not different nonsense. I mean, we're different because Tyler's gone. And we're just trying to figure out what the next best steps but I think this is always going to be part of it. And I think you're, you're very kind to say and I think you're right that we're, we are we're certainly intending to help other people. And if you think about it, this is it's hard to describe what I think Tyler would have meant as a person still on Earth, you know, his infectious, you know, happiness, smile, all of that. We can't even attempt to replace that with Home Depot. But I think there's a certain part of us that wants to write this out. We're all a little bit diminished, the sun's a little, you know, less bright because he's not here and all those things. So, he might be wouldn't have been in this position. He wouldn't have been, you know, creating mental health programs, I don't think but it's spirit and how much you loved other people and how much joy you brought. We're trying to do something on par that would you know that we would accomplish what what he would still be doing for the next seven years or so. So
Chuck Shute :yeah, well, I think you're doing amazing things and people should all go to the website, Helen's keys hope and also the NA, m i, I'll put that website on my notes as well. Thank you so much for coming on my show. Is there anything else you'd like to say to people or?
Mark Hilinski :Well, I I would add, watch or listen to the rest of your talk. I didn't, I enjoyed you know, I told him I was on there looking to music and comedians and draft analysts and all that. And so I had I enjoyed that a lot. so far. Yeah,
Chuck Shute :that's good to hear. Yeah. And I always end with a charity so obviously olinsky Who's gonna be the featured charity for this episode? And I'm just excited to see all the future things that that'll do for the three day all this stuff I got to listen to the your pot the podcast that you guys started the United one I got to listen to that one too.
Mark Hilinski :Great people on so thank you so much check it you should know that that this helps us to and we're grateful for that. And we're always going to share our story and our journey with the hopes that it will truly help people.
Chuck Shute :That's Yeah, that's my day to appreciate you. Come on so much. Thank you so much. All right.
Mark Hilinski :All right. Here's how are you to let me know if you're ever in Arizona. Well, yeah, okay. I
Unknown Speaker :go by.
Chuck Shute :Well, there you have it a powerful episode. My pain. I'm very proud of this episode. It's probably one of my best. Not that I really did anything. I just, I gave the Huskies a form. And the biggest thing I think I did was I just listened. And, you know, I think that's really important. I think if more people did that, the world would be a better place. So, you know, if you if you'd like to help, you can go to landscape hope.org You can read more about the story. You can donate money, you can buy merchandise, there's cool stuff. You know, try to get involved. If you want to learn more about mental health, you can go to the National Alliance on Mental Illness nami.org and I'll put these links in my show notes. As always, you can follow kolinsky hope on Instagram, you can follow me on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter. You know, just reach out to somebody if you need to talk. You can even reach out to me I do have a background in counseling so I wouldn't be weird or anything. I hope that everyone has a great day or night and thank you for listening.