Zoro (drummer w/ Lenny Kravitz, Frankie Vali & others)

Zoro is a drummer, motivational speaker and author.  He has toured and recoded with Lenny Kravitz, Bobby Brown, France Valli,, Sean Lennon and others.  His latest book “Maria’s Scarf: A Memoir of a Mother's Love, a Son's Perseverance, and Dreaming Big" is available for pre-order now.  In this interview we discuss his musical career and path in life, the new book, his tips for success and more!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:14 - Zoro's Upbringing & Family
0:04:40 - Working on the Book
0:06:13 - Staying on the Right Path
0:10:25 - Feeding Yourself Positivity & Be a Light
0:15:25 - A Book Can Outlive You
0:17:35 - Goals & Dreams
0:23:07 - Not Giving Up
0:26:10 - Taking the Action & Working Hard
0:33:15 - Thoughts on Death Bed & Helping Others
0:37:09 - Lenny Kravitz & Denzel Washington & Fame
0:43:00 - Taking Chances & Desire
0:46:15 - Discouraged, Burnout & Storytelling
0:53:40 - Reviews of Book & Aging Gracefully
1:03:10 - Trials and Tribulations in Life
1:12:11 - Outro

Zoro the drummer website:
https://zorothedrummer.com/

Chuck Shute link tree:
https://linktr.ee/chuck_shute

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:13

Yeah. I'm in Scottsdale, Arizona.

Unknown: 0:17

Awesome. Okay.

Chuck Shute: 0:18

Yeah. Are you have you played there played in the Phoenix area and

Zoro: 0:21

my mother used to live there and I've done all the things in that general area. Phoenix Scottsdale. Yeah. So you're in a nice, warm, warm country.

Chuck Shute: 0:31

Oh, your mom used to live here. I didn't know that. Yeah, she

Unknown: 0:33

lived there years ago. For a short amount of time. Yeah. Okay.

Chuck Shute: 0:38

Yeah. Cuz he, I mean, I know a little bit of your story. I haven't read the book yet. Because I just got it like, two or three days ago. And I was like, why can't I didn't realize was like, 500 pages. And I was like, okay, so what I did is I pre ordered the audible version, but they couldn't give me an advanced copy. Because I can go through that. And like, I think it's 12 hours, but I do it a double speed. So I think I can listen to six hours.

Unknown: 0:59

Yeah, you're one of those guys who listens to it at double speed. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:03

I fly through stuff. I fly through interviews and podcasts. And I listen to a few interviews. So I think I've learned enough but yeah, your story is so fascinating. Just how you can and I'm assuming that's a lot of what the book is about. Right? Your story. So yeah, so explain to my audience, just what happened. So it's like you're basically raised by a single mother, dad left when you're six months but lucky some bongos and then handed me this like world famous drummer.

Unknown: 1:29

It is kind of a prophetic thing, right? Like the the only thing this man left me he left by accident was a set of bongos. And in the memoir, my memoir, Maria scarf, there's a picture of me, you know, at 18 months with those bongos at the foot of my stroller, so like how prophetic did that picture become? Like, I had no idea that I would become a drummer, and that the only thing that he left me by accident would be part of my destiny. Right. But I think for the, for the listeners, they should probably know that I'm a drummer, you know, and then I can take him to the backstory that for the last 40 years, I've been touring around the world with everybody from Lenny Kravitz to Frankie Valli and the four seasons, Bobby Brown, new edition, Philip Bailey, birthmom fire and lots of lots of different people over 40 years. That's what I ended up doing with my life. But the backstory of why I wrote the memoir Maria's scarf was really this epic, overcoming journey of the kid with a dream and what it took to get to that stage. And so it's really, it's really a story. I mean, the subtitle of the book is, it's a memoir of a mother's love, a son's perseverance and dreaming big. So it's about this incredible, incomparable love of my single immigrant mother from Mexico, who raised his seven children alone. It's about my six siblings, and I have this unbreakable bond of family. We were a very different family in the sense that most every family I knew grew up with, you know, most everybody I know, it was like, I have cousins, I got my uncles and my hands got my grandparents. I mean, we were very different in that I had none of those people. I just had a mother and my siblings. I didn't have any uncles that I grew up with. I didn't have any ants that I grew up with. I didn't have any cousins that I grew up with. I didn't have any grandparents that I grew up with. So we became a very tight family because there was no other family. And, and the reason those people weren't, there's just, you know, my mother's people were in Mexico, and we didn't live in Mexico. We live in Los Angeles. My father was Irish, and his people were from Chicago, and they didn't want anything to do with me. So I didn't have family except my mother was everything. But we I grew up in the early part of my life in competent California, like the hood. And by the time I was in the fourth grade, we had moved like 3040 times, and many times we were evicted out of places because there was too many kids. And then those days, they could kick people out if they didn't like that, how many people you had. And there were times we moved from apartment to apartment a couple of miles down the road in my radio, red flower Wagon, we would literally put all our stuff and stack the stuff on there, the mattress was sideways and we do a whole thing and we could just move our stuff down the road. So I had a very adventurous, unstable childhood filled with a lot of rejection, a lot of poverty and a lot of challenge. But at the same time, I look back on it. I had this mother who had this incredible she filled my head with this idea that I could do something amazing with my life despite what everything looked like. And so I worked on writing this story and Maria scar for the last 15 years. I've been literally I've read over 300 books on how to write a memoir to write the story. And I actually had been working on it in truth for 50 years because I started a diary at the age of 10. And I kept writing in that diary into my 20s So I chronicled my life without knowing that one day in a book, you know, I had no idea it was just a kid just telling you his feelings. And in the book, when you read it, there'll be diary entries that will make you laugh your butt off. Others will make you weep, and others will get you angry. But it's the kids just writing his feelings. He's not writing it trying to go like, what are people gonna think in 50 years? You know, it's just me just pouring my heart out on the page, right bleeding on the page. But yeah, so the book comes out in two weeks, and I'm ecstatic because I have poured my heart and soul into the story mainly to inspire people to inspire people not to give up because my story if you think of it, like Rudy, Rocky, The Blindside, you know, meets Forrest Gump, it's an overcoming story. And that's kind of spirit. It's that American dream underdog David and Goliath kind of story, but centered around a kid who's got this dream of being a drummer. My dream was not to be an athlete, like all those other movies are like about, right? All those inspirational movies that I love, they're always about athletes, like they're never about, like musicians. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 6:12

then it's amazing. It really is inspiring, inspiring to me. I don't have as obviously, as rough a background as you have. So how did you do that? Because there's so many other people that have been given the cards that you've been dealt, and are not, you know, playing drums with world famous musicians they are living on the streets are addicted to drugs. I know you said something about you've never been drunk or high. How did you stay on the path and keep your eye on the prize like that?

Unknown: 6:39

That's a very good question, Chuck. And I let me think about it deeply. So I was fortunate that even though I grew up in these really harsh circumstances, and when we moved from Compton, California, we moved from Compton to rural Oregon. So we moved from one extreme to the other. And then we experienced all kinds of hardship up there. At one point, we lived in our 1962, Nova on a little piece of land, then we got a little tent, and then we got an 11 foot camper. I mean, it was rough, we showered at nearby parks, we, you know, it was the full on like hardship story. But at the same time, I consider myself very fortunate because I had this mother who just had this incredible faith, as she just believed she had faith in God that she just and she had to when you're living in those kinds of circumstances, you got to point your head to somewhere you give up. So she had faith that somehow God would see us through all these things. And I think, and because she filled my head with possibilities, she was a dreamer. And she used music a lot to set my heart to dreaming. So she would put on songs by Frank Sinatra, you know, high hopes young at heart, and she would use the lyric of songs to teach me how to dream because songs are powerful. And the words and lyrics and certain songs is usually the reason why we like songs is because they, they they explained so well, what we're feeling in our heart, you know, if you're going through a breakup, there's a great breakup song, right? If you're dreaming, there's a great dreaming song. So she would use songs to set my heart to dreaming, and would make me believe that I could do these amazing things, the avoiding the drugs, and the drinking was actually pretty easy for me. Because I grew up so impoverished, I couldn't imagine spending a single dollar on something that wasn't going to be building something. And so like, if I only had $100, in my hand, I go, like, if I drank that there would that money would disappear. And then if I snorted it, it would be gone. Like, I wanted to see something from the money. So I spent it on drum lessons, or I spent it on books that would set my heart to dreaming even more, or drumsticks or saved up for a drum set. So I wouldn't part with the money that wasn't gonna turn into something. I was trying to build something not destroy something. And I think the and and then a lot a lot of it in life. Because you if you take 100 people to go through the same difficult circumstance, why do some people give up and why do other people not give up right and the same, and a lot of it is your heart. And a lot of it is your attitude. And because I had a mother who had a hopeful heart, even though we were in these dire straits all the time, and abandoned and rejected, and all that stuff, and racism and bowling, she had a hopeful heart. So your situation doesn't change. If you're in a negative situation, you're in that situation. The only thing that changes is your perception of it and your perception of a possible future. And that's all in your mind. Because you don't really know that that future is going to happen. You just believe it's going to so you have expectations. Whatever you want to call it expectations, hope faith without it, we die because if you If you're in a negative situation, and you can't see any hope, out of this thing, then you give up, or you kill yourself or you kill other people or whatever, right. So hope is the thing you've got to hang on to. And hope is the reason that I wrote the book. Because in when I, when I been signing some of the advanced copies, one of the things that I the only thing that I write in there, if I don't have a lot of time, is I write never give up. You know, because it's just about not giving up, you know, and not and not counting yourself out, no matter how dire the circumstances. Part of that is I brainwashed myself, and my mother brainwashed me, or influenced me or encouraged me to read things that inspired me about other people who overcame things. So a lot of it is what you read. It's like what you put in your mind. It's like your brain is the is the is the hard drive. And the software is what you import in it. And what you import is like it's either going to be negative, that you're going to hear all around you, or you're going to hear positive things. And I had a family that was very hard working. And we just believed that we could move past these things that was all in our mind. And in our heart. It's a no as no other place, right? Because it's not in the natural world. And your natural world says you're going nowhere. That's why at the end of the introduction in the book, there's a little short little, not even a paragraph but a few sentences. And I say this, so the world said I would amount to nothing. My mother said that all things are possible. To those who believe I believed my mother. This is Our Story.

Chuck Shute: 11:39

Wow. Yeah, because you're right. That's it. That's a great example of like brainwashing yourself. I use the same term. He's exact same term for myself when I'm to kind of change my mood on things as I'll listen to a lot of like those like for me, like I don't, I could see my book, David Goggins like I was on a Goggins like, all those kind of motivational guys, and then that they pump you up, and then you start Yeah, you start believing it, you start watching motivational videos, or speakers on YouTube and podcasts and things, it really can brainwash you. I mean, there's are that is a great term for it. So it sounds like you did the same thing with books and stuff.

Unknown: 12:12

And I'm still doing it. Because basically, we become whatever we consume, you know, whatever. Whatever we feed ourselves, we develop an appetite for you ever notice, like when you eat junk food, then you just want more junk food. But yes, something healthy. You it takes a minute to form a good habit, when you start to eat healthy, good, man. Yeah, and I want something healthy again, like we develop an appetite for whatever we feed ourselves. And there's only three ways in which we feed ourselves. It's what we watch, what we read, and what we listen to. Those are the ways in which we infuse information into the human soul. It's what we watch, what we read, and what we listen to. It's who you're listening to, you know, or you're listening to all the negative people around you. And the world is basically negative. So I have found that I have to do the opposite. I have to pour the opposite into my soul and spirit every day, because and I don't watch the news either, because the news is mostly negative, right? So if you watch the news, you just kind of like go well, the world is crap, it's going to hell in a handbasket. Like, where's there any positivity? Like, if you could lose, you could be discouraged to thinking is anything I do matters, making a difference. So I try to look at my life. On a smaller scale, rather than being being overwhelmed by all the horrible things that are going on in the world. I look in a microwave going, What can I do? In my little life of my little world to be a motivating positive force in a world filled of negativity? Maybe what can I do to be the little light in a very dark place? And in order to do that, in order to maintain that mindset, I have to be very purposeful about what I watch, read and listen to, because that that fills me with whatever my belief is, if my belief is I can't make a difference, because the world is just crap, then I'm not going to make a difference. But if I go, Hey, Juan, when you're when you use a flashlight, and you're camping, and you're in the total darkness, that little tiny flashlight is everything, right? Without that little flashlight, you cannot see where you're going? Well, one little person who carries a light is so important in a world where most people are negative. So I as I've been a motivational speaker for 40 years, I've spoken everywhere from San Quentin Prison, to the trenches of the jungles of Ghana, Africa, were where there's tribal people wearing cheetah outfits, you know, like like the Flintstones, like I've been to the worst underprivileged schools. I've spoken everywhere imaginable on TV where millions of people wherever people gather, but the goal of my life was always to make a difference. And that came from the poverty and that came from the hardships and the and the harsh background I came from because what but it did in me as it developed compassion and empathy. You generally don't give a credit about people unless you've been through something. Because most of all, we're born self centered and selfish and we're narcissistic, you begin to care about people after you've been through something, some kind of trial, some kind of trauma where you go, man, I want to help other people. I wrote the book because I thought, What's the most important thing I can do with my life and everything that I've learned? Because there's only so many one on ones I'm going to have in my life, people that I encounter daily, there's only gonna be so many speaking gigs, so many gigs. There's only so many people I can reach physically with my one body, and mind and soul, right? But a book can go into the hearts and minds and souls of people all around the world that I'll never meet. It can outlive me, it can it could speak from the grave to future generations, about hope, about persistence, about determination about faith about belief, in ways that I can inspire multitudes of people then with the audiobook, it could go on forever, right? So I thought, what is the 61? What is the thing that I can give to the world that will inspire them to never give up to keep dreaming, and it is my story? This epic overcoming story is what I can give them. Because I can only tell it on so many shows or podcasts in my lifetime, right? But a book, the most powerful thing we have on this earth is words. They're more powerful than anything. Literally anything. Rudyard Kipling, the author of The Jungle Book said this he goes words are, of course, the most powerful drug known to mankind. Every war was started with words by dictators or manipulators of language that would use that to twist people's minds words, just words, wasn't even started with weapons. Look at Hitler words, every war was ended with words, diplomatic words of peace, everything that forms our life. Good, bad, and ugly, is all formed by words either spoken to us, or words we speak to ourselves and believe. People say negative things about you that you believe them, you become that people speak positive things, you believe them, and you become that or they speak positive things and you don't believe it, and you become what you believe. So the most powerful thing we have in the universe is really words, it is more powerful than anything, because in those words, is how we end up living our life. They become everything that I did in my life or self fulfilling prophecies. In other words, I always told people I was young. One day, I'm going to be a famous drummer. And in fact, I'll show you like, okay, so this is the cover of the finished book, okay. And on the on the cover, you'll have to see it closely, you know, but it's written, this is all a piece of paper that the book is on. It's like a old school piece of paper, it's folded and forth. But what it is, is it's a piece of paper that I wrote when I was 15. And on it, I wrote my goals and dreams, and I called it my future. And underneath all this, you can see my little handwriting from what I 15 inside the book is an actual picture of that of that piece of paper, because I kept it and I still have it. So it's this orange piece of paper. In it were like five different things that I sort of decreed about myself. And one of them said, you will be a professional musician and showbiz. You know, the first one said later in later years, you will change your own life completely. I was making decrees and declarations without really understanding the power of what that was. And they made the whole cover of the book, based on these are my little dreams that I wrote. And then on the inside panel of the book, they call them the endpapers. These are all the childhood dreams. These are all the things that I was working on towards my dreams and my diary entries and in the drum catalogs and when I thought I was going to be the world's greatest chicken farmer and all my dreams. And then in the back of the book, The endpapers are when the dream came to life. All the backstage passes, the album covers the magazine covers. So the whole book is about this kid with a dream. And he shows you what those dreams were. And then through overcoming adversity and perseverance shows you how you overcome the dream, but half of it was by maintaining a positive attitude in the face of negativity. Because we're all going to face trials and tribulations in our life. No one is exempt from them. So my story is not any more unique than other people on this planet who've had challenging stories. What might make it unique is I somehow managed to guard my heart against being jaded and managed to maintain some positivity and manage to find the light in every dark situation. And a lot of that is from the mother that I had, and the things that I would force feed myself. I constantly collected quotes and motivational sayings of things that made me believe I could Do something and then to challenge myself, I don't always tell somebody something I'm going to do, but not in a braggadocious way, it was never like arrogant. It was like, I remember walking into a drum shop in New York City, I was 18, it was my first time going there, I'd only been playing drums for like a year and a half. But I walked into the biggest drum stores that were in all the drum magazines that I used to read about, like when you're in New York, come to the Manny's music come to these places. And I would go there, and I see all the famous drummers pictures on the wall, and then I would tell the sales guy, I said, I want you to remember my name. He goes, Why so because I'm going to be a famous drummer one day, and then you're going to be able to say, you met me when I was here. And you're gonna remember that I said it. So that's how I would talk but in a very sweet, sincere kid like way. And five years later, six or so six or seven years later, is when I got the gig with the new edition. And I was on the covers of all the magazines and I and the guy totally remembered me. And he always, and he told the story for like 30 or 40 years, he goes, he goes Zorro walked in one day when he was 18. And he told me the only time I'd ever heard a kid's talk like that, you said, One day, I'm gonna be famous. And then he would tell that story at all the NAMM shows, and that story isn't one of my other books, the big gig, but I was making these bodacious decrees. But again, not in an arrogant way, but in a way, like if I say it, then I have to live up to it, then I have to do the work that it takes to live it. And in my, in the, in the memoir itself is my first newspaper article that I was in, in high school. And and, and it had my real name in the newspaper article. But anyway, so in there, it says that I shoot for stardom. But at the end of the article, it says something like, Well, if you ask most people becoming a professional drummer would seem impossible, the chances are nil, he goes, but if you ask Zorro, he would say you're wrong. And so it became a self fulfilling prophecy, the thing that I said the newspaper article, but then when times were tough, that's when I would go, I said that, I gotta, I gotta, I got to make it happen. I got to live up to that thing. I said, because I don't want to crawl back to the high school five years later, 10 years later at the reunion not having lived what I said. So I fought I made these decrees and declarations that forced me to keep forging through the mountain no matter what. And, and that is, in a way that is faith, right, these are. And I said the same thing with the memoir, The memoir, 15 years to write it. It's published by Blackstone publishing one of the best publishers in the world right now, for 400 pages. It looks stunning, it is beautiful, it is going out everywhere. But it was turned down over 100 times in the 15 years of pitching it over 100 times. And I always tell people, I'm going to have a memoir, it's going to be a movie like like Rocky, like really The Blindside, and it's going to be a Netflix series. And those are the next two things. It's going to be a movie, it's gonna be a series, but I see it in my mind, and then I'm willing to do the work. It's amazing

Chuck Shute: 23:05

that you could make that decree at such a young age. Like, I mean, I'm trying to figure this out. I'm in my 40s I still feel like I haven't figured it out with the podcast. I'm like, trying to tell myself the same things. But I hit all these obstacles. How did you not give up as a kid? Like, I mean, I feel like that's why kids turned to drugs and crime and things like that, because they just go you know what, I can't do this. Yeah, give me the fentanyl or whatever the drug was in the 80s. And let me just do that. And they were like, Let's go, you know, rob a store, and I'll get some money that way. Because I'm never gonna be able to live up to this dream. You've

Unknown: 23:40

got to surround yourself around. Even even just one person can make a difference in your life. Find that one person that that believes in you that one person and if you can't even find that one person, then be the one person yourself. Because there were times when I was in school, and nobody believed in me, and no one thought I could ever do anything. And so I would read those books, like scholastic books is like a young children's book, you know, publisher, and when I was a kid in school, they'd have these newspapers called a Weekly Reader, which was like a kid newspaper in the back of it, you could order books, and it would be little 50 cent books, like, you know, a book on a famous football player Joe Namath, or OJ Simpson, or Jim Brown, or Walt Fraser, Hank, Aaron, these sorts of legends of sports in those days in the 70s. And I would buy these books, then I would read their stories, and that would make me dream because they would they I remember reading about the OJ Simpson book that I had when he was the biggest football star in the 70s. I remember reading in the little book about him, and he walked up to Jim Brown, who was then the all time NFL running back, most Jardins champion in the world, and he was like 15 or 16. He walked up to Jim Brown said one day I'm gonna break your record, you know, and that stuck with me and then the Muhammad Ali thing. I'm the greatest, you know, I would read these books were guys told themselves, they were the greatest. So if you have nobody in your corner, then read because reading it reading is to the mind, you know what what healthy food is to the body. It's like feed your soul read things that make you believe you can do it and read stories of people who've overcome stuff, and become your own number one cheerleader, until eventually, some other cheerleaders come along, because you may not have anyone, but you do have a choice. The thing that makes us complicated as human beings is we have free will, which means every decision we make, we're not making under coercion, we're choosing to either give up or go forward, we have a choice in the matter. And I find that the only way you can overcome all that negativity is you just got to be flooding yourself with positivity and possibilities. And then also predetermined in your mind. I can do this. It's that it's that old little book we all read when we were kids, The Little Engine That Could it's like what Henry Ford said, whether you think you can or you can't. You're right.

Chuck Shute: 26:09

Yeah. Do you think that you became obsessed about it? Because you read all the books and stuff. And but not only that, like, you didn't only develop the mindset, like you lived up to doing that by doing the work, you did all the practice. And like, you know, you took action like you, you went to the Beverly Hills High School and pretended to be a student to kind of make connections and then meet other musicians. And so I'm so smart. Like, that's like you're doing the right things like putting yourself in the places to where you can make it happen. Well,

Unknown: 26:39

you're right, there's the other aspect. So there's two parts. There's two parts of dreaming. And there's actually several parts of dreaming. And that's why I've been a motivational speaker for years. Because I teach people, there's a difference between a dream and a delusion, you know, a dream is always going to be founded in some sort of a gifting that you have, you know, like, whereas the delusion is like, I want to be like NFL football star, but I have no athletic ability whatsoever. So we live in an era where people just delude themselves, like people go on American Idol cannot sing at all, but they're expecting to win. That's a delusion. That's not a dream, a dream is always going to be based on a God given natural ability you have that you didn't give yourself that just has to be developed. And I always look at everything as the seed of potential. I look at it, like God gave humanity the seeds of potential to excel in a certain predetermined area, like I didn't choose to have rhythmic talent. I was born with it. Those who are great at anything, they were born with a talent for it, all they did was discover something that was already there. And then they developed it, right. So everything that we have comes to us in the form of a seed, meaning it's a seed of potential, it could be a giant oak tree, it could be a giant Apple Tree, because that's what the seed is. But you've got to plant it, you've got to water it, you've got to fertilize it, you've got to protect it from the birds of the air, you've got to put the pesticides on it. You've got to you've got to protect it from the negativity, you've got to protect it from Oh, something, something disrupted my plan, a setback, I have had so many setbacks in my life. And somebody like this book could have come out 15 years ago, 15 years ago, there were publishers that were interested in, in love the story. But then their marketing team turned it down because I didn't have 2 billion followers. So I had a choice to make, do I give up on this vision or dream? Or do I just keep working towards it. And sometimes I think there's a divine timing in life. For me, there was a divine timing. If this book came out 15 years earlier, it would not be with the book that's coming out in two weeks. In those 15 years, I really learned the craft of memoir writing, I really learned to go back into my past and look at my history, I really matured so I could look back on my life as a 60 year old, not a 45 year old, I had perspective, I was now more vulnerable, more truthful, I could bear it all, where 15 years ago, I wasn't. So I felt like it was divine timing of when I was ready for this thing to be everything it was supposed to be had to come out earlier, it would have been a premature launch. So sometimes we have to just be patient in life. You know, there are visions and dreams that could come together very quickly. And there are others that take a lifetime. And so here's how I figure it in five years from now, if I'm alive, I'm going to be five years older no matter what I do. So I could either be five years older and be making progress towards this movie, Netflix dream, or I could be not making any product but I'm gonna get older if I'm alive. Time is gonna pass regardless of what I do with it. So I was said to myself from a young age, okay, maybe it might take me three years to learn to play this beat or to get this gig or maybe not. But in three years, three years is going to be here and I'm going to be three years older. So I might as well be three years older and three years closer, you know, because the time is gonna pass it's is what am I going to do at the time. So a lot of it is determining, there's the vision and the dream that you have. And then there's the strategy and the work ethic to get towards it. And everything I've learned about people who have accomplished really great things, is that the delusion that we think from the outward is they were just lucky and talented, and it just happened for them. And that's the one in a billion case, when I really read the fine line and read the people's stories and learn about their lives ago, know, he had, he had athletic talent just as much as any other guy. But he worked harder. And those were the Michael Jordan's of the world, and the Tiger Woods of the world. And you just realized they had the same talent that other people had. Some people granted got to start earlier. So they develop younger, like Tiger Woods was developing when he was three years old, you know, but still, time is time. I didn't start playing till I was 16. I was discovered as the janitor at my high school, I was the after school after hours janitor at my own high school. And the band director caught me sneaking on the drums one day and just playing and I had never played before. But I guess I had a natural gift and I could play. And he and he discovered me. And that's how I got an all the school band program was I was the janitor at the high school. It was like,

Chuck Shute: 31:16

I love that story. It's like Goodwill Hunting. I think it's the people have said that before. But yeah, it's kind of like that. So you

Unknown: 31:23

just go, Hey, I started at 16 Yeah, sure. I wish I had started that too, like some of my heroes, but I didn't. But guess what the drumming talent was in me from birth, and the drumming talent was in them from birth? And whatever talent you have. You're born with it? It's just At what age? Do you discover it? And at what age do you take? Do you have the courage to go after and turn it into more? It's a part of what compels me to turn everything into more. As I look at everything kind of through a spiritual lens. I look at it like, God gave me these abilities, which I did not give myself the ability to drum, the ability to speak, the ability to teach and the ability to write those are my gifts. I did not do anything to get those gifts. I was born with them. The writing, I started writing the diary at 10. So it was already in me to be a writer just I was a bad one. That's all, but I had to develop. But I look at it like okay, if God's gift to me are those things, then my gift back to God and the world is what do I make of them? And how much more do I turn them into. So if like, if I'm the son of a of a billionaire, like a Bill Gates, and he goes, son, I love you. So I'm gonna give you a million dollars to start and go start some businesses, whatever you dream up started. So he gave me the million to start with. So I can never boast that I started with nothing, because my dad was Bill Gates. That's kind of how I look at the spiritual thing. God already gave me something that has a billion dollars of potential to develop into something great. I never gave myself that. So my and my gratitude and my attitude is like, How can I turn that million dollars that Bill Gates gave me into 10 million and turn it into more. And at the same time, remain thankful that you gave me the first million to start with right couldn't have done it at all to begin with. Because what happens is people accomplished a lot of things, but then they're prideful and arrogant, thinking that they gave themselves the gift. No, you were born with a gift. You just recognized it and you work really, really hard. But it's to me, it's more than just about like, becoming successful for successes sake. It's more like, at the end of end of everybody's life. Nobody is thinking on their deathbed, nobody is thinking about I wish I made more money. I wish I had more gold records. I wish more people sucked up to me. I wish I was more famous know what they're all thinking is the same thing. I wish I would have made a bigger difference. I wish they realized at the end it's about people. And it's about purpose. And not it's not about the stuff. Right?

Chuck Shute: 33:45

Didn't you say? Living a life of self versus living a life of service. So it's like you try to look at it. You have these gifts and you're trying to share it with the world. So like for me like I know the podcast, I'm always thinking like, when I do an episode like what am I doing this for? Is it doing it for myself? Or am I doing this to share something valuable with people, and probably the same with your drumming and your books, you're thinking like I want to write this book, not to be a huge famous author, but more to share knowledge with people that would be helpful and educational. Right. And

Unknown: 34:15

that gives you a sense of purpose that's beyond. I always tell people, I had never done anything for money sake. I didn't try to become a drummer to be rich or a writer to be rich or a teacher, like whatever money has come or will come as a result of the dedication to the craft itself. Not not that was never the end goal. The end goal was like the end goal with the book I have poured so much time, effort, energy and money into this book. And I would have done it whether anybody published it I would have self published it. But fortunately, I was published by a major publisher that loves it as much as I do, and believed in the story. But I would I do everything that I'm compelled to do. And I'm compelled to do things that make a difference. So You're doing that with your show, right? And so here's the thing, it's like, becoming famous is one thing, but like the bottom line is, whose life is benefiting from my fame. And I do that in my daily life. If I encounter people, and they recognize me, or they know me, or I read your book, I'm kind of them I'm affirming, I'm encouraging. I'm trying to use not just the onstage or not just a book itself, but their actual encounters with me. Was he a jerk? Was he self was the arrogant, no, I try to be humble, I try to be approachable, I try to be helpful and inspiring, because that's the real treasure. The real treasure is that old thing you know, it is better to give than to receive. Because when you only receive, we were created to serve, when you serve yourself, you're dissatisfied. I've never met a self centered person who was happy and not want. And I've known zillions of them. They're not working, you're happy when you're serving people. So it's like the the wealth, the fame, the talent, none of that is a sin. None of that is a crime. The sin of the crime is that you never use it outwardly for other people, because then you you don't get the joy of the joy of giving. And so you're looking for more, another Grammy another million dollars, and then vote another this and you're still miserable, because it's all about you. But when you realize that it's about other people, then that's actually where you find your joy and living. But the world sells you a bill bill of goods and sells you the opposite message, and makes you think I got to have more, I got to hoard more, I got to be more than and no one in Hollywood is ever satisfied with all the more they get. Because if they were Elvis Presley would have been the happiest guy on the planet Earth. And everybody else who had fame and fortune and wealth and good looks would have been the happiest people on Earth. But they're not because we're not really meant to be idolized and worship like a god, we can't handle it. We implode as human beings. We're meant to serve other people. And when you lose sight of that, then you're so dissatisfied with life because you're going I thought all of this would fill that void. And I thought all of this would bring me that joy. And it doesn't. And there's no soul.

Chuck Shute: 37:06

You learn that from the people that you work with like Lenny Kravitz huge Lenny Kravitz fan. And so I was looking at your work and I was like, okay, like, I think you played with them for the first two albums. But I look at the the credits and like you only plan on one song because for people who don't know he, he's like a Dave Grohl or like a prince like he plays the drums on every track. He plays every instrument.

Unknown: 37:26

He does. But Lenny is also a very, he's a brother of mine. We've been friends since we were 1617 years old, and he consider him a brother. But Lenny's also a very deep guy to lead. He has a very deep spiritual walk, and it's grown deeper, and in the last 1520 years, but he has always had a Christian faith and where he sees the big picture. And that's why he is a very humble guy, he is filled with gratitude. He, he understands that it's all a gift, and that he's just something he told me the other day he goes, you know, him and Denzel Washington are really good friends. And, and it said something Denzel always says, he goes, you know, man, I just want to be in that number. So that's a line from the song called the Saints Go Marching In, which, which is a gospel song about, I just want to be in that number When the Saints Go, Mark. In other words, all this stuff is temporal, this earthly life, it's all fading, it's all passing. And no matter how much you accumulate, fate, fame, wealth, good looks, it's all passing, it's all going away, you don't get to take any bit with you. And so they both have had enough fame and success and everything you can shake a stick at, to go, I get it. This is just This is what it is. All I want to be is in that number. In other words, I just want to make it to heaven. Because I realized this is not heaven. This is earth with all its trials and tribulations. And even with all the fame and all this stuff, it never is going to fill the void, that the three of us believe the void in the human soul is a void that God puts there on purpose that is reserved for his own spirit. And nothing that's worldly, could fill the empty void, which is why all the people who try to fill it are still empty. Because all the dictators and all the rulers and all the people who have the things they wanted the control the power, the sex, the fame, they end up these miserable souls because you're trying to fill an empty part in the soul of your life, not the physical part of your life that cannot be filled with earthly treasures. And so I feel that God made everybody with that longing that emptiness India that's longing for another world. Like, this is why we're never that ultimately satisfied. You see people when they win an Oscar or a Grammy or they're buzzing for a week or a month and then Then afterwards, it's kind of like, okay, is that it like it like and I've been with them and they go like, is that what else is there? Like? Okay, maybe I'll win another one. Another one. Then I'll feel like okay, when I went to seventh one, but

Chuck Shute: 40:03

don't you think it's also worse than the people that like they have one hit song and like, they just they live off that song for like 40 years, they're always talking about, remember when I had that hit song 40 years ago? Like, it's like, okay, can you do something else with you? I don't know. Either way,

Unknown: 40:18

my point is none of the trappings of the world, have that eternal fulfillment in your soul that fulfill you. And then of course, the people who've never had those things, always think, well, if I got famous, I wouldn't feel that way. Then when they get famous, they feel the same way. So that's, that's just my case in point and like, we're all just passing through. And I believe God put a GPS inside of us, that senses that there's something more other than in this world. And we sense it, we, we feel it, we just don't. And we're looking and we're scrambling. And when you find it, then you realize, okay, it's we were created for a relationship with God in our spirit in our soul. And when you have that, then the rest of this world can make a little bit more sense, because then you can see all that fame and fortune for what it is. It's just a platform to do good. It's just a platform to help people to be an inspiration. But if you make it a God, that God will fail you, because it will not fill the void that you're still having your soul this longing for that deeper connection, that connection to to your maker, right. And so that was a Lenny goes, I just want to be in that number. You know, he told me he got his Hollywood Walk of Fame thing the other day and asked him I said, So man, you must be pretty excited. Pretty awesome to get your name on the HUD. He goes, Yeah, that's cool. He goes, you know, but I'm with them. So I just want to be in that number.

Chuck Shute: 41:37

I love Denzel. I don't know if you ever watched like some of his little motivational speeches on YouTube. But those things pumped me he's got a couple of good ones. He talks about one where do you see the one who was talking about like a, this woman in a barber shop made this prophecy? That one is so inspirational. And so like, he had like, failed at a college or something. And this lady is like, you're gonna be a famous actor. And he's like, What are you talking about? And like, she was right.

Unknown: 42:02

But she prophesied over. So I've hung with Denzel a couple of times. And I love him. And I love his stuff that he posts, but he's a very deeply spiritual guy. He has a faith in God. And he, he has every

Chuck Shute: 42:14

I didn't know that. I mean, it makes sense, but because based on the stories he sent, tell him Yeah, and

Unknown: 42:19

if you if you look closer and start listening more than you'll hear what's behind those words, he says, you know, and it's the same with Lenny, you know, he's, he's grown very deep in his faith. And, and that's what grounds him. But yeah, so, you know, we've been on this great trajectory of friendship from when we met on the lawn of Beverly Hills High, you know, I feel like, you know,

Chuck Shute: 42:41

it was slashed at that high school, too, because I thought I remember reading that Lenny Kravitz and slash were friends. And like years later, they're like, wait a minute, we went to the same high

Unknown: 42:51

school, he was too and so was Nicolas Cage. At the same time, he was at that high school, quite a few different people. And that was the high school that I pretended I was going to, yeah, for about a year. And

Chuck Shute: 43:05

I love stories like that. That's like Steven Spielberg, you know, like he did the same. He walked into an abandoned trailer at Universal Studios and put his name a famous director when a Steven Spielberg and it's like, and pretended to be a director when he wasn't a director, and then it just became a director.

Unknown: 43:19

Well, I mean, some of those things, just take, you know, in my case, you know, here's the answer to everything. It's like desire is everything, you know, like, if you have desire, that desire will make you do things, and you got to have a little hutzpah. You know, you got to have a little courage and you got to have you got to try things that and I did that at age 17. I just didn't know what else to do. You know what I mean? So it's just an idea that came to me like, I'll sit on the lawn with my boombox and my earth when a fire Greatest Hits and practice patterns of sticks. And if I sit on the lawn, maybe some other musicians will notice me and I can meet some other players my own age, I wasn't even thinking about maybe I'll meet some famous rich kids, because they weren't famous. They were just students. Maybe they might have been famous, or their dads are producers, but they were just kids just like I was, but I just wanted to connect with kids that were players that you know, and that's where I just wound up being. And so a lot of things happen when you take chances. And when you take a leaps of faith, nothing is accomplished in this world without faith. You have to believe in yourself a higher power. But you have to believe I think the greatest gift that God gave humanity, amongst many things, music was one of those great gifts. But I think one of the greatest gifts he gave humanity is this ability to dream of something. And then to have the faith to go after this dream and do it. That's an invisible force. That's a power that can't be seen, but felt clearly like you dream up an idea. When I did a lot of motivational speaking at different schools and stuff I'd say kids look around at Everything in the room everything you see everything the lights, the desks, the the this the chalkboard, the whatever said everything at some point was just an idea in someone's mind that did not exist. The projector, every single thing you see is something that at some point in history did not exist, every piece of my drumkit at some point did not exist. And somebody drempt it up, and then believe in their mind, like wow, what if you put these two symbols together and I've put a foot pedal and in one of the Hi Hat first started that the simplest place to go. You know, when it first started, it was really low on the ground. And they used to use it and vaudeville in the movie theater stuff when there was live bands playing to the to the silent movies. And then some guy had the idea of raising it extending it higher than he call it the hi hat. Now every drummer in the world plays the hi hat and plays it proficiently. But at one point it did not exist on planet earth until some guy dreamt it up. And then usually when you dream up something great people tell you can never be done the Wright Brothers every every great invention. No, it'll never happen, you know. And everybody says you're you're crazy. And then and then that person just still believes and has faith that the thing that they're working on could come to life. And then that thing comes to life. And then we all go of course there's electricity. Well, everybody knows there's electricity. And then we have a you

Chuck Shute: 46:15

not get discouraged. And and burnt out after so many like, I understand like weeks and months like yeah, you can push through even like a year or two. But I mean, when it gets to be multiple years and like it just that you're not hitting that dream or the goal or what you thought you're starting to give or just wonder like, oh, maybe I maybe I picked the wrong thing maybe I am doing maybe I reached too high. I

Unknown: 46:39

have felt that many times. You know, like with with this memoir, Maria scarf, I felt that 100 times when I was rejected 100 times, I was rejected. Nobody ever rejected it because they didn't think it was a great story. I was rejected by a lot of publishers, because I wasn't Denzel Washington with 2 billion followers. So they just want something easy they want some already have a built in market that a lot of them said it's a great story, this would be a great movie, then I was rejected by agents that didn't quite understand what the book was. The book is a universal book that will appeal to everyone. The book they wanted me to write was like a rock and roll tele where I tell dirt about Lenny Kravitz and Bobby Brown. And I'm like that is a cheap book that will never touch or inspire anybody. The only people that will buy it will be fans of those bands. They'll forget it six months later, this book, no one will ever forget, because the stories in here are memorable. The reason why I know is because I share some of the stories live. And I will share some of the stories 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I'll meet people and they'll remember all those exact stories because they move them. I said, but the agents missed that they were like, you know, I was like my story is a way more universal story. It's a story of a mother and a son's love that's universal man. It's a story of a family's unbreakable bond, the story of a kid with a dream. It's Rocky man, that is universal, because we all feel it. But they didn't get it. But I now I'm very thankful they didn't get it. And so how do you keep going in the years when you get rejected? The answer is different for different people. But for me, I knew that I had a story that was compelling. Because everyone I ever shared those stories with over the years have always been moved by those stories, whether it was on a bus, or whether it was some of the early drafts that I wrote, people were like, Oh my gosh, I love this story. I love your writing. So I had enough encouragement for people to know that I was not off my rocker. Now if all the people I queried were like, Nah, man, there's not that this ain't moving me, then I would have given up. But when I knew that from over and over and over the public loves this story. The public loves these stories. The public is moved by this, the public is the end judge of all these things, right? I just have to find a publisher who believes and sees the story for the stories value, right? Because in the old days, man, people would publish books based on a great story. Now that the template is idiotic. Now it's just so chronic. And in the end, story rules and story Trump's story trumps everything. Because the reason why the classic books are classic, is because the stories in there are so good that they connect to our humanity. And year after year, we tell other people about that classic book or about that classic story. We don't go hey, when I read the Where the Red Fern Grows, you know, he had 2 billion followers now he didn't have any followers. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 49:32

I mean, it's true. Like you could have taken the easy way out though, and just taking the Rockstar gods. I mean, that's the same thing I feel like I deal with. I'm like if I interview somebody a musician, I'm like, Okay, if I ask him for if I get dirt. I'll get a kid on the you know, blabber mouth and Guitar World and all these things. I'll get some sort of story. But it's like, is that really what I want to do? Is that really because you're right, they forget you a week later. Nobody cares about it. No. Gossip

Unknown: 49:57

is cheap. But you know what, and here's what here's my Nice to you, to anyone who's listening to anybody who has an artistic bone in their body. We only have one job. And you're doing a great job of it, by the way, because you're you're asked very deep, pointed questions, but then you let me go off and talk because I have a lot to say. And you're like Larry King, you know how to listen. But then when you interject, you know, the right question, right? So that's a gift. But here's our only job in doing this podcast and writing a book and playing drums and doing a movie. In a painting, we only have one job as an artist, and that is to elicit emotion. Make people feel something deeply in their humanity, whether it's hate, whether it's anger, whether it's love, whether it's hope, whether it's remorse, but to make people feel something, because if you're not making them feel anything, you're a useless artist, because people are already not feeling anything in life and are very numb and mundane. Life is mundane, the most, most parts of life are mundane. But the reason why I stuck to my guns on Maria scarf was I wanted to write something that would make people freaking cry. Because it's true. This powerful love story of this mother, this Mother's faith, the things that happen to us, I wanted to make you laugh your butt off, because there's some hilarious things that I do. I was a quirky kid that would, you know, just do anything. And then I want to make you feel hopeful. I want to make you feel what it is to be a human being and what it is to be in a dream to overcome things. I want to make you feel something. And I know that I've had people read it, and they'll go, I had this one top notch New York Times bestselling author, her name is Tosca Lee, a friend of mine did a book with her. And I said, I wonder if you could send my manuscript to Tosca to see if she would give me a blurb, you know, an endorsement for the book. And it's a long shot. He goes, I'll send her the the electronic version of it. And so this is just around this last Christmas. And, and it was just before Christmas, like about a week before Christmas. And so my friend forwards me the email and email from Tosca says, Marcus, I'm reading your I just began to read your friends orals book. And it's three days later, I cannot stop reading, I'm still in front of the computer. This thing is riveting. I have no she goes, I got a Christmas list. So long, I haven't started anything. Because I cannot put this book down. It is amazing. And then a week later, she sends me this beautiful blurb and a part of his on the back of the book. So that's the kind of response I'm getting from high level readers. Because it's emotional. It's emotionally engaging. It's emotionally gripping. I'm not boasting anyway, I'm just saying that's the 15 years of learning how to write in a way that moves people because I knew I had a moving story. But then how do you write it, you have to understand character art, and scenes and setting and dialogue and through lines and, and plots and all these things that you just don't know if you're not a train writer, right. So if you want to fulfill a dream, you got to really you got to count the cost. I mean, this is 15 years of over and over hundreds and 1000s of iterations to turn out something that then gets that kind of response. And it was worth every minute, every dollar every hour, because it doesn't even matter if I make any money from it. It matters how many hearts I'm going to touch with the story and how their lives are going to be changed because of a story. Because your life in my life. The some of our life has been changed by the stories we've accumulated in our life to this point. That is what brought us to the life that we're at. It's the sum of the stories we've heard, that have transferred into our heart that we believed It's why you started the podcast, even though it seemed like an impossibility because a million people have a podcast. And guess what many people do all the same things we want to do can't let that stop you. Not a million of them are going to do it like you.

Chuck Shute: 53:45

Right? Oh, that's true. That's a that's very inspiring in itself. That's really nice to hear that you got this great review from somebody that in that opinion matters more so than I'm sure you'll have critics to but like something like that, like that's great to hear and focus on that. Well,

Unknown: 54:01

and that's that's the only responses that I've had, I've never I've not had any negative ones. And I've had really high level snooty readers that are really, you know, jaded and don't like a lot of things would tell me your book slayed me, in the best of ways. And that's because it's truthful, it's authentic. It's true to the, to the to the trial of the Tribulation, the suffering in the human heart. And yet, it ends with this beautiful, hopeful thing that the kid got to live out the dream. And so there's no way unless you're like Scrooge or dead, that your heart's not going to be moved. Because our hearts are moved by those compelling stories, which is why we watch them or read about them in movies or watch TV series of stories because we want to be touched. We want to be encouraged and we want to be left with something hopeful because in the end, we were all underdogs. Usually in life, people do not never see the value of what we really carry. And we all Have this longing to produce something of meaning that we're all trying to sell something that we have. And we're just looking for people to purchase it. And that's not mean not not physically, but meaning like, I have something I want to share. I'm a motivational speaker, I want to touch hearts. But then when we don't have any takers, it's discouraging. It's disappointing. Like, I want to start a podcast. But I got two listeners, my mother, and my father, you know, and so we have this thing inside of us that we want to get out there. But my advice to people is to go through the process, and determine in your heart that you're going to do whatever it takes to get there, no matter what the other two sided sword of the story is that sometimes a certain dream will timeout. And we have to be realistic, and not delusional, let's say, let's say God intended for you to be a great baseball player gave you the natural ability, the skill, but in your life, you didn't believe you could do it, or your dad talked you into going to college to becoming a doctor because it's a safe route. And maybe you didn't go after it. And now you're 60. And now you can't be a top notch baseball player unless there's a baseball league for old people. Right? So you go, I missed that dream. Okay, there are times in life where dreams timeout, God gave you a window you didn't get get after it. Your ex wife told you never to do it. Now you're not married to her and you didn't do and you go Why did I you know, this is millions of people, right? Billions of people. But you can go hey, I'm 60. Now, look, my memoirs coming out. I've written other books. But to me, they're all training for the memoir. So I'm a pretty old memoirist coming out with my first memoir, right when when I read it, mostly these other people like 30, they wrote this memoir, and at 40. They wrote this, and they wrote that so I'm on the older side, but then I read encouraging things. Laura Ingalls Wilder, who wrote the Little House on the Prairie series was based on her life that didn't hit until she was like, 67. But look what it did. It's been for years. Some things take a long time to be great.

Chuck Shute: 57:04

One, I think you mentioned this story, too. And I've heard this one before Colonel Sanders, like it wasn't like 67 when he sold his recipe. Yeah.

Unknown: 57:11

And he was already he was already he had already he was disenchanted with being let go from a company that he was retiring from. He didn't get very much and so he wanted to do something else. There are so many stories. Look at the Diana Nayak or whatever the movie with Jodie Foster and and Warren Beatty's wife and that bending about the about the swimmer who you know, it's 60 Did you know cross from Cuba to Miami or whatever? It's, it's a big movie that's out?

Chuck Shute: 57:40

I've seen that one. Yeah, I

Unknown: 57:41

forgot. It's, I think it's called Nyad. Diet. Okay, back to swimmer. She was like 60, or whatever. And she does the impossible, the literal impossible. So I say, you know, watch things like that. Look at things like that, but then also count the cost. Are you willing to do what Diana did? Are you willing to do what I did? Are you willing to, you know, because these things will not come for free, they will come with a sacrifice, but also let go of dreams that have timed out like physically, maybe are not physically able to be that athlete anymore? Well, I always say pray and ask God for a new dream. You know, if that was the dream, for then, but it timed out, I believe he's got another dream for you from when you're 75 till you die, or from when you're 85. To die, like in other words, there are different dreams that are age and season appropriate. Maybe you didn't get to do that one. But you have a shot at this other because now you have experience you didn't have before. And that's something you can't get access through real time. That's something that made me a better writer was the older I got, the more I could be truthful with the past and not be ashamed or embarrassed of things I would have been maybe 15 years ago, when you're young, you're protecting your name and your identity and things and your image. When you're older. You don't care you're closer to the growth. You can be free or you go because I don't care what people think anymore. Right? I'm done. You know, you see people be very truthful as they get older, because they know the other side's calling soon. And so now now, you know you're not winning anybody over you're just going. I don't, I don't. Well, it's not the same thing. But it's funny. Like I saw a president the first President Bush was really funny. I saw this footage of him on the White House law. And he goes, I don't like broccoli. And I am the President of the United States and I am not going to eat my broccoli. Like we are staying in the world. Like he just like I'm I'm old. I'm the president. I've never liked broccoli. I don't like it now. I'm the president and I'm not eating broccoli.

Chuck Shute: 59:38

I think there's a lot of that as you get older I noticed even myself I mean I'm not that I'm not up there that high but even at 46 I'm like there's so many things that you're right it's like you get you try to portray this like perfect person and and then as the older you get you go you know what, I'm not perfect and I have all these mistakes and I have all these flaws and it's okay and it's like this is who I am.

Unknown: 59:57

It's what makes you beautiful because All those flaws and mistakes. The first of all, is what makes you relatable to other people when you share them the flaws and mistakes, one of the blinds I wrote in the book somewhere, and it's very true. I said, I was part sinner, part St. But all heart in my epic quest for significance. So I do some bad things or some shenanigans, and I got a really pure heart. And another way I'll do beautiful things for my mother. And that's all of us were part saint. We're part sinner, we're capable of great evil, we're capable of great good, all of the same human soul, right? And I think when people see that, they relate to you more, because they go, I'm like that, too. You know what I mean? It's part of the human experience. And so when you, but as you get older, you can be more vulnerable and more truthful. And then you don't really care what people think, because you're gonna, this is who I was, this is the story. And you know, you can't judge me because it's that old song, you know, walk a mile in someone's shoes, until you've walked a mile in that person's shoes. You might say, Well, I wouldn't have never done that. Or I would never raise my kid like that. Or I would never do that. People say all those things until they've been in that situation. Then when you're in that situation, would you people say, Oh, I would never steal, right? Okay, if you're a parent, it's the war. Your kids are starving. You either steal some food or they die? Do you think you'd still now? Okay, you probably would, if you were a decent parent, you would, you're doing something wrong, but for the right reason. And until you're forced to be in that situation, it's very easy to judge other people in those situations than when you're there you go. My might have done that, too. Or, you know, if somebody is attacking your kids, and you shot somebody, you go, well, he's killed him. Yeah, but But would you protect your daughter, you know what I mean? Like, so until you walk a mile in somebody's shoes, you don't really so we have to I, the older I get the more grace I walk with towards people, because you never know what anybody's story is, and what they've been through what's caused them to be this or that or make those choices. So I just walk around with more grace. When I spoke at San Quentin, I was speaking to the most hardened criminals in the world. But I had these dudes, with his big tattoos, these guys looked like they could choke me in one second to kill me. They were coming up to crime. They were coming up to me crying because of the ways that I spoke life to them and ministered hope to them. They were like, man, your story wrecked me, man, are you when you played your drum solo, I started crying man. It was so emotional. And, and you know, and it's, that's when you know, we're all human. This is like one of the most hardened criminals, but they related to my humanity and the things that I either said or played. And that's that part of the emotional part. eliciting emotion. Everybody wants to feel alive. Crying makes you feel alive. Getting angry makes you feel alive. being boring doesn't make you feel alive. When your life is like this. And there's no emotion anywhere. You're not alive. Right? Well, I

Chuck Shute: 1:02:59

think that's why people do crazy things like drugs and stuff. Or even like the people that we talk about people who are successful. It's always interesting. Like, when someone like Winona Ryder, who has success and money, then she does shoplifting because I feel like she just, you know, she's in that, like, she just wants to feel alive.

Unknown: 1:03:15

Yeah, it's like, it's like, you know, it's like, it's something that's insanity that like, okay, like that getting that adrenaline going right, you know, but yeah, I mean, life is a journey, man. It's filled with. There's a scripture in the Bible that says, in this life, you shall have trials and tribulations, not like you might, if you're lucky. No, you shall have trials and tribulations. But then Jesus goes on to say, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. Which means that for me as a Christian, which means if you place your hope and trust in God and Jesus, then you won't be exempt from going through the trials of tribulations, you will be able to get through them. And that's the difference. We all go through hard things. How do we come out on the other end? Do we come out bitter jaded? Do we come out killers? Do we come out? Like, you know, how do we come through the other side? Because it looks completely different based on how you do it. Right? You're not exempt from the trials and tribulations. It's just how are you going to get through them. And I have, in my case, through my faith, it has allowed me to be shaped in a way where I got better through them and not worse, where they gave me more compassion, empathy and love rather than more being bitter and jaded and angry. And it's all because of what I felt like God's Spirit carrying me through something I couldn't it's like that thing that footprints in the sand saying, you know, like, Where were you when I was stumbling, and this I only see two footprints in the sand and that's when the Lord says, those are my footprints. That's when I was carrying you. Right? And so I've learned to kind of offload those heavy things that I don't have, like with the book I literally I literally shelved it for a while, I did everything I knew how to do. And after, after that hundreds rejection, I said, Well, God, I've followed the vision you've given me, and I'm not giving up. I'm not giving up on the vision you gave me. But I am laying it on your altar until you tell me to pick it back up, because I've exhausted every door that I know. And so sometimes you have to lay things on God's altar in your life, and just go if it's meant to be you tell me when to pick it up. And then about a year later, it was like, I threw a friend of mine, it was like time to pick it up. Then I got a new agent. And then he pitched it to the people who then end up loving it. It was like one shot. And it's what a few a few authors had told me all along. He says it only takes one person to believe and love your story. So

Chuck Shute: 1:05:46

you kind of took a break, you took like a year where you just kind of stopped trying to stop trying

Unknown: 1:05:50

to pitch it and stop trying to try to age so I just I didn't give up. That's a difference. Yeah. Fifth, failure is temporary. What makes it permanent is quitting. I didn't. I just I had many times in my life, I've had to shelve things. I've taken this thing as far as I can't, God didn't open the doors yet. There's a divine time, God's kingdom in my life. So I go, Okay, God in your timing, I can't tell you how grateful I am that he blocked it. Because there was a time when I was close to getting a deal. And it would have come out during COVID, it would have got lost in the COVID Shuffle. Book that it is. So what happened was, when I got turned down all those times, I decided to just go ahead and just continue working on writing the book. Because usually you get a usually get a book deal from three sample chapters. And so I hadn't had the whole thing written. So after all those rejections, I said, Well, I'm just gonna start writing it, had I gotten a book deal at any of those other times, I would have a short amount of time to produce the entire book, I could have never done it. It took me all these years to studying and learn how to write. So I had all this long period of time to develop the writing. And then when when I when we finally pitched it that year later, we pitched it as a completed finished book I was done. And then still, even after the book deal, we still worked on it for like another six months, they hired a developmental editor, they take my already done whatever masterful, according to me book and make it even better. But if I only had like a year to do that, like you get the book deal, and then you got six months to finish the book, it would never have been what it is. So that delay was God's grace on my life. And that enabled me to write an incredible book, as opposed to like rush a book, that's not gonna be that good. Because those writers who's a trained writer who could sit and churn books all day long, you know, I had to really study and I had to go on my own past and read all those diaries and look at all my history to go, what do I want to tell? What do I not want to tell? You know, and so it was all timing. So yeah, I laid it on the shelf, and then it was time to pick it up again, then it was time. So my advice to anybody out there is, you know, PRAY, WAIT, weigh your heart of what is the thing that makes you feel most alive that when you think about doing it, like it made me feel most alive to know that the words I wrote could possibly touch another life that made me come alive, like something that I wrote, could move a life so much that it can actually alter that life that drove me not like, I can't wait to be on the New York Times bestseller list. I can't wait till you know, it becomes a movie and I become famous. It was none of those things. It was like there are words on a page that can change your life. And I know because of the words and pages that I've read, that changed my life. books that I read that shaped my life changed me like they have credit my bank account, your your words changed me, you know?

Chuck Shute: 1:08:33

And I can do that too. I'm sure you've

Unknown: 1:08:36

absolutely because mute. It's funny. Music is the deepest of all the art forms. You know why? Because you and I can listen to a song. And we'll go oh, my gosh, I was in seventh grade. When that song came out. I had this bike I lived on this street, I used to wear these clothes, like everything comes back exactly. As you remember it. You can't do that with a book or a movie, or a painting. Music makes a physical imprint on your soul where you totally know the kind of person you were at that time where you lived. I can watch a movie right now. And a year from now I could watch it again. And I'll be halfway through the movie going. I think I've seen this. Oh, yeah, he does this. Oh, forget about it a year in a year. Right. And you can read a book and you'll remember a couple of lines. But you'll forget like the whole book. Not what songs man with music. It's like smells certain smells, you get oh my gosh, I was 12 years old. That's the smell of camping. That's that smell by the fire. You know, and it just gets into your psyche. So it makes an imprint on your soul. Right? So music is very, a very powerful art form in that way. Because it really stamps a timeline on you. And it's super inspirational. I think it's the greatest gift God gave humanity is the power of music man. Like how can you make it through life without music? I don't know like music. I can't do anything without music. It's it's I wrote a lot of Maria scarf my memoir while listening to I made these beautiful Little soundtrack compilations, I probably have like 2000 movie scores on CD, many of them out of print, I'm a big music collector. And then I would put together these great incredible compilations, all the lush scores from different movies I love like, like hours and hours of them. And that music would inspire me when I wrote like different words would come because of music would release something in the creative atmosphere that I could write in. And so I would write it three or four o'clock in the morning and have that music on my headphones. It's just right. So find something to the listener out there, find something that inspires you. And when that's over, find something else. It's kind of like inspiration is like food. You ate yesterday. Fine, it fed you. But today is another day I need to eat again today, because I'm hungry again. Right? So well, I got inspired a year ago, I went to this motivational thing. Or a year ago, I watched this movie, you need to inspire yourself every day, some way somehow, because every day is another day to face the challenges of life. And you ate yesterday. So you got to feed your body. Right? You got to feed your soul. Find things that inspire you.

Chuck Shute: 1:11:03

Absolutely. Very cool. Well, the book is available for preorder now. It's coming out soon. And do you have anything else to promote? Or do you have any date tour dates or anything that you're well, I'm

Unknown: 1:11:12

just I'm just kind of all over doing a variety of things with regards to the book, you know, a book signings and TV things and playing and recording. The book comes out April 30, which isn't two weeks, but it's available now for pre order on Amazon, audible Books a Million Barnes and Noble. And yeah, I mean, it's just I'm just still trying to get people to pick up the book and and be inspired. And then share it with someone because I promise you, you will be inspired. I can't wait. No, thank you. Thank you for Chuck, thank you for just taking the time to interview me and having me on your show. You're a deep guy you got a great thing going it's been a joy to be a part of it to for you to let me express myself in this very deep way. It was been awesome. It wasn't like a 10 minute deal. It was like we could probably get we can really get into it and you hadn't really deep observation. So it's been awesome. You're gonna You're gonna do great.

Chuck Shute: 1:12:07

Thank you. Thank you so much all stop recording now.